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(Salon)   Mother nearly falls into a fit of apoplexy and is forced to confront her irrational fear of the color pink when her daughter asks for a pink pair or "sparkly princess tennis shoes." Because FEMINISM   (salon.com) divider line 333
    More: Ironic, phobias, Disney Princess  
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8878 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Feb 2014 at 8:14 AM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-02 11:13:37 AM  
As for a mother who freaks out over the kind of shoes her daughter wants, she's privileged she can buy her daughters new shoes so now STFU.
 
2014-02-02 11:13:52 AM  

supayoda: This is almost as bad as the other mom who wouldn't let her 11-year-old son use Axe body wash and wanted him to go back to his Spongebob wash instead.


Axe is awful. Skip that stuff and just go straight to grown-up soap and shampoo.
 
2014-02-02 11:15:20 AM  

hardinparamedic: AngryDragon: What the fark is wrong with you?

You really shouldn't have brought this up.

You should have NEVER brought this up if you didn't expect it to be deconstructed in this conversation.


You haven't refuted anything.  In fact, the very first sentence I typed AGREED with a woman's right to an abortion.  Go back and read it.

All you've done is spout a political plank that had absolutely nothing to do with the point I made.  And since you have no apparent rebuttal, your responses are becoming more and more vile, aggressive, and confrontational. If you are so absolutist in your opinion that you can't see that there are perfectly valid cases that should be addressed and discussed by all sides, then there is really no point in debating you.

For the record though, your perspective is exactly why modern feminism has a terrible reputation and its getting worse.
 
2014-02-02 11:15:55 AM  

hardinparamedic: TwistedFark: But the thing is, you're not deconstructing anything. You're painting strawmen all around this guy and then using that to be condescending.

Why are you doing this? What sort of benefit are you getting out of it?

I'm actually not. He's using the fact that his girlfriend got an abortion without his permission to do so as a reason to try to justify forcing women to carry a fetus against their will to term, OR forcing them to sign away their right to seek remediation and child support because someone was gaming the system and he happened to be the unfortunate victim of that, ignoring the fact that he is the exception rather than the rule of the deadbeat dad evading the system.

The fact he actually compared what happened to him with the plight of a rape victim being blamed for her rape and forced to cary his rapist's offspring as being exactly similar demonstrates how separate from reality that belief is.

And I'm getting a paycheck from Big Feminism. Seriously?


I read his explanation differently.  I read that he was talking about his emotional reaction as being comparable.  After someone so rudely told him to seek counseling for having emotions.  Nuances.
 
2014-02-02 11:16:19 AM  

Warlordtrooper: In every one of those cases, the men who were ordered to pay child support had their names willingly placed on the birth certificate as the legal father of that child. You seem to leave that fact out.

Unless the man is the biological father (excluding cases where the man is raped)  or he went through an official adoption agency, there is no legitimate reason why he should be on the hook to support a kid.  Placing his name on a piece of paper does not make the kids DNA change so it's his biological kid.


In some states, a child born in marriage is legally presumed to be the child of the husband and even if they divorce and DNA evidence later proves the husband was not the biological father, he cannot avoid child support. That's how it works in Louisiana. Legal acknowledgement of paternity can be very difficult to over come.
 
2014-02-02 11:17:25 AM  

onyxruby: Zasteva: I'm happy to have a civil discussion with you about this.

I enjoyed the article because it shows just the kind of trap someone who thinks of themselves as open-minded can get into, and how important it is to review our own actions and attitudes in the light of what we claim to believe. Often, we find our actions and attitudes are not congruent with our beliefs, and we need to either strive to be better people, or recognize that our beliefs have changed.

What did you think of the article?

Love to. In some ways I agree with the author of the piece. I'm firmly opposed to princess culture because I think it's harmful to girls and ultimately sets unrealistic life expectations. The author seems to be concerned primarily about the beauty implications, failing to realize that is she is a good parent her girls will be capable of being more than capable of handling life. Personally I think the real harm isn't the 'pretty' aspect as much as the princess aspect that can lead to adjustment issues later on in life.

It ties into helicopter parenting and refusing to let a kid just be a kid. Kids need to be allowed to succeed and fail so that they can become properly adjusted for adult life. I worked at a University for a few years and saw any number of young people come in and have significant adjustment issues.

Then again I'm the guy that just bought my princess obsessed 6 year old niece a remote control monster truck for Christmas. She loves that monster truck by the way.


I had the same reaction you did while reading it; that she's already being a good parent to her girls and they won't become mindless slaves to beauty and fashion just because of glittery pink shoes. And that kids will be kids. I personally had to come to that same realization about my son playing with toy guns; an understanding that his mother has yet to fully share.

I think we are on the same page about this.

One other thing you might want to consider is whether your Weeners to the comment was a neutral and idea based as you intended. It was easy to read your post as calling the poster a radical and uninterested in equality.

In my humble opinion, the term "mansplaining" is less offensive than calling someone a radical or saying they are uninterested in equality because "mansplaining" is a jibe at a particular behavior, in this case a specific action of dismissing all of feminism as "not about equality". I thought the "mansplaining" response was a rather mild rebuke of that dismissal.

I'm sure you saw it differently.
 
2014-02-02 11:19:28 AM  

AngryDragon: If you are so absolutist in your opinion that you can't see that there are perfectly valid cases that should be addressed and discussed by all sides, then there is really no point in debating you.


No. I've actually admitted, for the third time now, that there are cases that should be discussed by all sides. I've actually agreed with you on the need for judicial reform. What I haven't agreed with, and absolutely will not agree with is:

1) MRAs are excusable for their vile behavior because they happen to tout that.
2) That the system should be thrown out, and protections based on gender should be thrown out because of exceptions to the system as a whole.

You might disagree with me on these. I really don't care, because if those two are what you want to debate on, it's going to be pointless as neither of us will change our minds.

AngryDragon: In fact, the very first sentence I typed AGREED with a woman's right to an abortion.  Go back and read it.


And then you went on the attack for a woman exercising her right to abortion because she didn't gain your consent for it first, while avoiding the disturbing implication that you're actually advocating forcing a woman to carry a fetus to term if her partner does not agree to that abortion.
 
2014-02-02 11:20:46 AM  
FTA: I want to ask them if they worry about the ramifications of allowing their child to worship a culture that teaches them girls are for looking pretty and rescuing.

Apparently she hasn't seen a princess movie in 30 years.
 
2014-02-02 11:21:37 AM  

Ker_Thwap: I read his explanation differently.  I read that he was talking about his emotional reaction as being comparable.  After someone so rudely told him to seek counseling for having emotions.  Nuances.


Thank you.  Precisely
 
2014-02-02 11:21:55 AM  

Ker_Thwap: hardinparamedic: TwistedFark: But the thing is, you're not deconstructing anything. You're painting strawmen all around this guy and then using that to be condescending.

Why are you doing this? What sort of benefit are you getting out of it?

I'm actually not. He's using the fact that his girlfriend got an abortion without his permission to do so as a reason to try to justify forcing women to carry a fetus against their will to term, OR forcing them to sign away their right to seek remediation and child support because someone was gaming the system and he happened to be the unfortunate victim of that, ignoring the fact that he is the exception rather than the rule of the deadbeat dad evading the system.

The fact he actually compared what happened to him with the plight of a rape victim being blamed for her rape and forced to cary his rapist's offspring as being exactly similar demonstrates how separate from reality that belief is.

And I'm getting a paycheck from Big Feminism. Seriously?

I read his explanation differently.  I read that he was talking about his emotional reaction as being comparable.  After someone so rudely told him to seek counseling for having emotions.  Nuances.


To me it was just that he shared something emotionally difficult with us by way of saying, "Here's something for consideration as well." which is a perfectly valid, and I guess around here, a particularly brave thing to do.

Even his comparison wasn't directly about him, it was more about the attack on him - and I agree, there is little difference between the way hardinparamedic has dismissed his emotional well being as a concern as to how a extreme religious conservative would dismiss the emotional well being of his ex-girlfriend for doing what she did.
 
2014-02-02 11:22:10 AM  
Here's my take:

- The ideals and goals of feminism are still desperately needed in today's society and are truly beneficial to all genders
- A significant number of people have a warped view of what feminism actually means. This is due to various things such as past prejudices and old patterns, fear (of losing privilege), and, yes, even articles and statements by clueless self-proclaimed "feminists" (I'm looking at you Jebel, Slate, Salon, etc.) who are either selling something (page-clicks, "Bust Down the Patriarchy" iPhone apps, etc.), pushing their own selfish agendas, or are vainly attempting to give their miserable lives some sort of meaning by "fighting the good cause" as a "Social Justice Warrior".
- The stated goals of most MRA's seem reasonable and worthy on paper, but I've yet to come across an MRA group that wasn't filled with sexist, impotent, whining bigots
- Using terms like "mansplaining", "feminazi", etc. shows that you are not really interested in equality or working together to make the world a better place, but rather you are instead a puerile infant who's only argumentative technique is to hopefully shut down opposing arguments with ridicule and shame
- Disney sells a product in order to meet a demand. If you don't like the product, don't buy it for your children.
- Letting your young daughter dress up as a Disney princess will in no way cause here to be become weak or subservient to the dreaded "Patriarchy" (For FSM's sake, let kids be kids) How you raise her, and the values you instil in her are going to be what shape her, not the "Ariel Undersea Kitchen" her grandma bought her when she was 7
- People who feel that they've "failed as a parent" because their daughter likes Princesses, "girl" lego, or other gender-specific toys have indeed failed as parents (or on the path to doing so), but not for the reasons that they think

That is all
 
2014-02-02 11:22:16 AM  
bigchill.com
 
2014-02-02 11:23:34 AM  

hardinparamedic: AngryDragon: What the fark is wrong with you?

You really shouldn't have brought this up.

You should have NEVER brought this up if you didn't expect it to be deconstructed in this conversation.


You've had my support through most of this conversation, but you are losing it here.

AngryDragon had a painful experience. As human beings striving for a better society, our response should be one of sympathy, not of dismissal.

I took your suggestion that he seek counseling for the grief as legitimate concern. So please read this in that same spirit: It seems like you have misplaced some anger toward an image of AngryDragon that is not deserved. You might want to think about whether or not that's true, and if it is, why.
 
2014-02-02 11:24:34 AM  

hardinparamedic: And then you went on the attack for a woman exercising her right to abortion because she didn't gain your consent for it first, while avoiding the disturbing implication that you're actually advocating forcing a woman to carry a fetus to term if her partner does not agree to that abortion.


So... since when is describing the negative ramifications of someone elses actions on your own emotional wellbeing an attack on said other person?
 
2014-02-02 11:24:46 AM  

TwistedFark: I agree, there is little difference between the way hardinparamedic has dismissed his emotional well being as a concern as to how a extreme religious conservative would dismiss the emotional well being of his ex-girlfriend for doing what she did.


Pointing out how his emotional objections to what happened do not justify the road he is leading down with that statement is the same as telling a woman that God was the one that had her rapist brutalize her, violate her in the most intimate way possible, and forcibly impregnate her against her will with a fetus she never wanted in the first place, and then forcing her to carry that child to term where it will allow that rapist to continue to manipulate her life for the rest of her natural?

Really.
 
2014-02-02 11:26:11 AM  

hardinparamedic: MRAs are excusable for their vile behavior because they happen to tout that


I have no idea what this means.

hardinparamedic: That the system should be thrown out, and protections based on gender should be thrown out because of exceptions to the system as a whole


I never said that.

But you are right, there is no point in discussing any of this with someone like you.  Interesting conversation though  Will probably have to look into this MRA thing because anything opposed to your confrontational and hostile position must have some merit.  Thanks for the heads up.
 
2014-02-02 11:26:36 AM  

TwistedFark: So... since when is describing the negative ramifications of someone elses actions on your own emotional wellbeing an attack on said other person?


Because those emotions do not come close to justifying the ends that road leads down - namely forcing a person to obtain consent from their partner for an abortion, and the idea is not only offense, but shows a disconnect with the reality of abortion in America.
 
2014-02-02 11:27:12 AM  

Nabb1: Warlordtrooper: In every one of those cases, the men who were ordered to pay child support had their names willingly placed on the birth certificate as the legal father of that child. You seem to leave that fact out.

Unless the man is the biological father (excluding cases where the man is raped)  or he went through an official adoption agency, there is no legitimate reason why he should be on the hook to support a kid.  Placing his name on a piece of paper does not make the kids DNA change so it's his biological kid.

In some states, a child born in marriage is legally presumed to be the child of the husband and even if they divorce and DNA evidence later proves the husband was not the biological father, he cannot avoid child support. That's how it works in Louisiana. Legal acknowledgement of paternity can be very difficult to over come.


But that's my point about men being treated unfairly. They shouldnt be forced to provide for a child that is not theirs. It's nice if they choose to but it shouldn't be forced upon them if they are not the biological father
 
2014-02-02 11:28:12 AM  

hardinparamedic: TwistedFark: I agree, there is little difference between the way hardinparamedic has dismissed his emotional well being as a concern as to how a extreme religious conservative would dismiss the emotional well being of his ex-girlfriend for doing what she did.

Pointing out how his emotional objections to what happened do not justify the road he is leading down with that statement is the same as telling a woman that God was the one that had her rapist brutalize her, violate her in the most intimate way possible, and forcibly impregnate her against her will with a fetus she never wanted in the first place, and then forcing her to carry that child to term where it will allow that rapist to continue to manipulate her life for the rest of her natural?

Really.


You can't see that you're the only one who is inferring some "road he is leading down with that statement." Why do you have to extrapolate things that are never said, or even barely inferred to attempt to make a point? What's going on with you that you need to do this?
 
2014-02-02 11:28:23 AM  

AngryDragon: But you are right, there is no point in discussing any of this with someone like you.  Interesting conversation though  Will probably have to look into this MRA thing because anything opposed to your confrontational and hostile position must have some merit.  Thanks for the heads up.


Absolutely! Anything I can do to further your idea that the ends of depriving rights from women are justified by what happened to you individually.

You'll fit right in.
 
2014-02-02 11:28:37 AM  

The Pope of Manwich Village: [bigchill.com image 850x513]


I'm colorblind.  Can I assume there was something pink in that kitchen?  It just looked money colored to me.  I did like the retro appliances however.
 
2014-02-02 11:28:59 AM  

hardinparamedic: clowncar on fire: I'm not sure how the poster suddenly becomes an advocate of the destruction of women's rights or blocking services to raped women.  Seems a little bit of projection was involved there.

I would highly encourage you to read up on the MRA movement.

My problem is not with people who demand judicial reform and fair treatment of men in family court or rape cases. My issue is people who white knight the MRA movement for being involved in this, while ignoring the downright evil things the people they represent do in addition to this.


So basically you agree with the MRA movement:

My problem is not with people who demand judicial reform and fair treatment of men in family court or rape cases.

You just disagree with some of the people who belong in the movement? Why do you not equally condemn the feminist movement as it also has a very large problem with institutional sexism? Why can we dismiss the entire MRA movement with derision because of some of the members, yet not do the same to feminism. I mean what about the 'All men are rapists', 'Consensual sex is always rape', and the rest of that crazy bullshiat?

Maybe it's just because I live in Britain, where we all largely have moved on from caring about women's reproductive rights as anyone's issue but their own. When people say MRA I think http://www.fathers-4-justice.org/ and people who think that the recent trend of boys failing massively in schools is an actual issue.

More to the point I never really see people take the MRA people on on issues - it is always personal attacks, ad hominems and straw men.
 
2014-02-02 11:31:35 AM  
In the Animal Kingdom, pink is a color you'd not want to see.
It means death to the bearer.
Skinless flesh,
what does it mean?
 
2014-02-02 11:32:38 AM  

feckingmorons: Do people actually read slate or is it some type of autoerotic literary outlet for the people who write that drivel?


It's pretty obvious that neither Subby nor 95% of the idiots commenting in this thread read the article.
 
2014-02-02 11:36:09 AM  

meep3d: So basically you agree with the MRA movement:


Not at all. I don't agree the problems with the judicial and family court system entitle people to treat women like subhuman, or eliminate protections on gender from our society which historically have been proven to need to exist.


meep3d: Why can we dismiss the entire MRA movement with derision because of some of the members, yet not do the same to feminism. I mean what about the 'All men are rapists', 'Consensual sex is always rape', and the rest of that crazy bullshiat?


Because, where as what you describe represents the fringe of feminism - namely radical feminism, despite your attempt to paint ALL feminist philosophies in the same light, the MRA movement represents the fringe of their respective side as well.

See, here's the thing, I do dismiss those people the same as I do MRA. By openly mocking them, in fact.

meep3d: Maybe it's just because I live in Britain, where we all largely have moved on from caring about women's reproductive rights as anyone's issue but their own. When people say MRA I think http://www.fathers-4-justice.org/ and people who think that the recent trend of boys failing massively in schools is an actual issue.


And in the United States and, to a lesser extent, Canada, the MRA movement is basically made up of these guys:

meep3d: More to the point I never really see people take the MRA people on on issues - it is always personal attacks, ad hominems and straw men.


They're taken to task all the time on their claims of epidemics of false rape accusations, that women actually initiate most domestic abuse incidents and the man is just "defending themselves", etc. And some of their ideas, such as family court reform, are actually good ideas. But that doesn't mean that others are blatantly wrong or based on outright lies, and their behavior is any less vile.
 
2014-02-02 11:37:36 AM  

hardinparamedic: TwistedFark: I agree, there is little difference between the way hardinparamedic has dismissed his emotional well being as a concern as to how a extreme religious conservative would dismiss the emotional well being of his ex-girlfriend for doing what she did.

Pointing out how his emotional objections to what happened do not justify the road he is leading down with that statement is the same as telling a woman that God was the one that had her rapist brutalize her, violate her in the most intimate way possible, and forcibly impregnate her against her will with a fetus she never wanted in the first place, and then forcing her to carry that child to term where it will allow that rapist to continue to manipulate her life for the rest of her natural?

Really.


Yeah, you're arguing in your own head at this point.  Granted, it was a clumsy analogy, but you're trying to build a rocketship out of scooter parts.

/Speaking of clumsy analogies...
 
2014-02-02 11:43:56 AM  

Ker_Thwap: hardinparamedic: TwistedFark: I agree, there is little difference between the way hardinparamedic has dismissed his emotional well being as a concern as to how a extreme religious conservative would dismiss the emotional well being of his ex-girlfriend for doing what she did.

Pointing out how his emotional objections to what happened do not justify the road he is leading down with that statement is the same as telling a woman that God was the one that had her rapist brutalize her, violate her in the most intimate way possible, and forcibly impregnate her against her will with a fetus she never wanted in the first place, and then forcing her to carry that child to term where it will allow that rapist to continue to manipulate her life for the rest of her natural?

Really.

Yeah, you're arguing in your own head at this point.  Granted, it was a clumsy analogy, but you're trying to build a rocketship out of scooter parts.

/Speaking of clumsy analogies...


Yeah, I know that I'm riding the Scootie Puff Jr. of arguments at this point.

speedhero.files.wordpress.com

Oh well. Back to politics.
 
2014-02-02 11:44:52 AM  

hardinparamedic: AngryDragon: But you are right, there is no point in discussing any of this with someone like you.  Interesting conversation though  Will probably have to look into this MRA thing because anything opposed to your confrontational and hostile position must have some merit.  Thanks for the heads up.

Absolutely! Anything I can do to further your idea that the ends of depriving rights from women are justified by what happened to you individually.

You'll fit right in.


I'm confident, after 5 minutes of browsing there, in saying this:

You are all insane.  Them and you.

I am proud to say, as with most things in my life, I'm a centrist on this issue.  Feminists and MRAs.  Don't you people have anything better to do?  What the hell ever happened to HUMAN rights?
 
2014-02-02 11:46:33 AM  

Ker_Thwap: The Pope of Manwich Village: [bigchill.com image 850x513]

I'm colorblind.  Can I assume there was something pink in that kitchen?  It just looked money colored to me.  I did like the retro appliances however.


Yes. But, not just any pink. It's a man-made shade created with the latest research in color psychology. Its calming effect, combined with associations of love and romance, put the little lady at ease after a busy day shopping, but also provides the mental trigger necessary for her to make you a perfect pot roast.
 
2014-02-02 11:47:42 AM  

The Pope of Manwich Village: [bigchill.com image 850x513]


There's an app for thatimg.fark.net
 
2014-02-02 11:50:36 AM  

hardinparamedic: Slartibreakfast: "Mansplaining"... 90% of the time it is used as a feminists way of telling men to sit down, shut up, and learn their place.

You sound incensed that someone would tell you to STFU when talking about something you're blatantly wrong about or trying to spin.


That's pretty funny coming from someone who lost their shiat in this very thread without provocation. You'll get over it.
 
2014-02-02 11:51:11 AM  

hardinparamedic: TwistedFark: But the thing is, you're not deconstructing anything. You're painting strawmen all around this guy and then using that to be condescending.

Why are you doing this? What sort of benefit are you getting out of it?

I'm actually not. He's using the fact that his girlfriend got an abortion without his permission to do so as a reason to try to justify forcing women to carry a fetus against their will to term, OR forcing them to sign away their right to seek remediation and child support because someone was gaming the system and he happened to be the unfortunate victim of that, ignoring the fact that he is the exception rather than the rule of the deadbeat dad evading the system.

The fact he actually compared what happened to him with the plight of a rape victim being blamed for her rape and forced to cary his rapist's offspring as being exactly similar demonstrates how separate from reality that belief is.

And I'm getting a paycheck from Big Feminism. Seriously?


What on earth is wrong with you?  He said nothing of the sort.  You're distorting, misrepresenting, and outright dissembling, and it speaks to some deeper psychological or mental damage that I am neither qualified to assess nor care about you enough to be concerned with.

The one true thing you've said is that you're not getting a paycheck from Big Feminism.  That's because they wouldn't have anything to do with someone as contemptible as you.  I am a passionate advocate of causes supporting the protection of rights across all genders and let me tell you, you are NOT helping.
 
2014-02-02 11:52:00 AM  
hardinparamedic:

Because, where as what you describe represents the fringe of feminism - namely radical feminism, despite your attempt to paint ALL feminist philosophies in the same light, the MRA movement represents the fringe of their respective side as well.

See, here's the thing, I do dismiss those people the same as I do MRA. By openly mocking them, in fact.


I'm not even involved in the MRA movement at all, I only acknowledge that discrimination is not a single sided issue and think that it is worth addressing. If anything I'd say you have the problem, as you jumped right in to calling me a Nazi (and don't weasel out, there are plenty of less polarizing propagandists, you picked a facist for a reason) for simply saying that the maybe the movement has a point.  You didn't care what my viewpoint was, in fact you didn't even read what I wrote (and I kept it short) and moved straight on to the accusations and abuse. No wonder you say that all MRA supporters are evil since you don't apparently read what they say.

I am only defending here as it seems all it takes to get this torrent of hate is to suggest that feminism alone is not a road to true equality. And if you do think that a movement that, at it's core, excludes the other side of the debate by default then you lack the critical thinking skills to even be worth talking to.
 
2014-02-02 11:55:35 AM  

bahr: You're distorting, misrepresenting, and outright dissembling, and it speaks to some deeper psychological or mental damage that I am neither qualified to assess nor care about you enough to be concerned with.


Well, I suppose that I've got amateur psychiatrists on FARK commenting on my mental status. So there's that.

AngryDragon: I'm confident, after 5 minutes of browsing there, in saying this:

You are all insane.  Them and you.

I am proud to say, as with most things in my life, I'm a centrist on this issue.  Feminists and MRAs.  Don't you people have anything better to do?  What the hell ever happened to HUMAN rights?


That's all I wanted out of this entire thing was for you to see the kind of people who you were defending. Even a little bit.

Maybe what I just got you will be a small consolation for putting up with me being an asshole these past few posts.
 
2014-02-02 11:57:06 AM  

hardinparamedic: hasty ambush: Family court, child custody, Obamacare (all that free stuff attached for women's health issues)etc.
Look at child support. In many states DNA evidence can prove a man is not the father of the child  but he  still can get stuck with child support.  When was the last time a woman got stuck paying child support for a child that was not hers?

In every one of those cases, the men who were ordered to pay child support had their names willingly placed on the birth certificate as the legal father of that child. You seem to leave that fact out.

In most cases that is because the lying coont told their husband/boyfriend that they were the father . There was that whole trust in relationship thing that women are successful in exploiting. Rare is the man who will accept the paternity of a kid he knows isn't his. And if he has been found to have been lied to why shouldn't the law allow for a correction, along with at least a civil prosecution of the mom for fraud?

hasty ambush: Look at the whole birth control abortion debate.  for the Feminist the battle cry is my body my business and men should not be making laws about women's bodies.  But when it comes to paying for the consequences of what they do with their bodies  they sure don't object to the concept of male tax payers having to pay for them (Federally funded abortions)

 Here is a hint for you  girls if you use other people's money they are going to want some say so in how it is spent even if it used on your body.  If you are using your own money to engage in your own little form of eugenics feel free to tell them to STFU.
That's an incredibly long winded and idiotic way to tell us you have no clue what you're talking about, since the various Hyde amendments prohibit the federal funding of abortion outside of a court order or medical necessity.

Which does not keep Obama and other feminists from demanding otherwise.

;As a controversial bill banning federal abortion funding heads to the House floor this week, the Obama administration is threatening a veto if it reaches the president's desk.

Link

www.theblaze.com


Plus just because and organization can't using federal funds for abortions the availability of those funds doe snot prevent it from directing its other revenue for abortions-the x among of federal dollars they receive for rent, building maintenance and condoms mean d they can take a similar amount, from a different source formally dedicated to such things and use it for abortions. So in way the tax pauyers are still funding abortions.

hasty ambush: Look at eh Violence Against Women Act. Not the Violence against domestic partners, shack ups or violence against  people or men act  but Women.

 Special funding for extra prosecution effort and enhanced penlites for violence against the alleged equal gender of female.

It is not about wanting equal treatment but want special treatment and free stuff.

Okay, you can solve this easily.

Give me objective numbers on how many men versus how many women are abused each year in the United States. How many end up in the ER or in hospital because of that abuse? How many end ...


And your point would be what? That perhaps women are more likly report things like being assaulted?

It seems strange to me that the gender fighting for the right to serve as a Marine Rifleman or Army infantryman and endure the rigors of the battlefield on an equal footing with men find themselves unable to handle the rigors of the civilian world on an equal basis. Unless of course they are going to insist on special battlefield rules to accommodate them.

 
2014-02-02 11:57:57 AM  
Wait until Eva grows up and marries a Nazi dictator. And it will all be your fault, Mom.
/God, I hate Salon. Whinging, hand-wringing, sniveling stereotypes.
 
2014-02-02 11:58:11 AM  

hardinparamedic: That's the thing. There is no serious scenario for MRA. They really don't care about men's rights as a whole - they legitimately refer to any male who does not share their views as "traitors to their gender", akin to the whole "Traitor to their race" thing that is so popular in white supremacy.


But it is the MRA's who fight against strawmen. You are farking delusional.
 
2014-02-02 11:59:27 AM  
My feminist daughter is home for a visit and was railing against "princess culture" and the patriarchy just yesterday. And the day before. And the day before that.

I opined that Hollywood should boost the self esteem of boys by portraying Superman as a homely, pudgy weak guy who cries when Solomon Grundy gets the drop on him. Went right over her head.

The most spoiled and privileged women on the planet are also the most complaining and self-pitying. With a factory-default hostility towards men thrown in.

 Oh the things she will learn when she has her own kids.
 
2014-02-02 12:00:33 PM  

meep3d: If anything I'd say you have the problem, as you jumped right in to calling me a Nazi (and don't weasel out, there are plenty of less polarizing propagandists, you picked a facist for a reason)


Not really. I just picked the most well known that came onto the top of my head. If I wanted to call you a Nazi, I'd outright do it. I've actually done so to people several times on here, and I'm quite the asshole, so I don't really care to hide behind words if that's what I mean.

But if it makes you feel persecuted and victimized by me, you're more than welcome to feel that way.

meep3d: I'm not even involved in the MRA movement at all, I only acknowledge that discrimination is not a single sided issue and think that it is worth addressing.


Right. You're just  concerned.

meep3d: You didn't care what my viewpoint was, in fact you didn't even read what I wrote (and I kept it short) and moved straight on to the accusations and abuse. No wonder you say that all MRA supporters are evil since you don't apparently read what they say.


Yeah yeah. Just because you have a viewpoint on the matter, does not mean it's worth consideration if you can't see the reason that rational people would want to separate themselves from those who identify with the MRA movement.

The fact that you've been confronted with what these people ACTUALLY are and represent, and you still feel peachy keen defending their views is telling, dude.

meep3d: I am only defending here as it seems all it takes to get this torrent of hate is to suggest that feminism alone is not a road to true equality. And if you do think that a movement that, at it's core, excludes the other side of the debate by default then you lack the critical thinking skills to even be worth talking to.


The irony of this is palpable.
 
2014-02-02 12:04:52 PM  
I HATE the color pink. My daughter loves it. I let her wear pink because it's just a color, not a statement of politics. Those politics are put on the color by us; the color does not care about anything.

The feminist movement was born, in part, out of the idea that men controlled everything and did not care a damn about women or how that affected them.

Unfortunately, when the feminist movement started changing things, they did to the men what they argued men had done to them: made changes, made demands, and pushed things forward without concern to how this would affect men. They are just as guilty as gendered, limited, and selfish thinking as they stated men were.

I do not buy into this women make X amount of money per hour versus men who make Y per hour for the same job. IF it is true it is because women tend to leave the work world to have babies or take care of family members who are terminal, not because they have vaginas.

I hate that the courts are biased toward women, even when it's clear the woman has no earthly business having the kids. Giving birth make make a woman a mother, but it does not make her a mommy.
 
2014-02-02 12:05:10 PM  

hardinparamedic: bahr: You're distorting, misrepresenting, and outright dissembling, and it speaks to some deeper psychological or mental damage that I am neither qualified to assess nor care about you enough to be concerned with.

Well, I suppose that I've got amateur psychiatrists on FARK commenting on my mental status. So there's that.

AngryDragon: I'm confident, after 5 minutes of browsing there, in saying this:

You are all insane.  Them and you.

I am proud to say, as with most things in my life, I'm a centrist on this issue.  Feminists and MRAs.  Don't you people have anything better to do?  What the hell ever happened to HUMAN rights?

That's all I wanted out of this entire thing was for you to see the kind of people who you were defending. Even a little bit.

Maybe what I just got you will be a small consolation for putting up with me being an asshole these past few posts.


This is likely just cheap cover for yourself, I doubt you wanted anyone to get anything out of discourse with you. I'm fairly certain that you did it solely for your own benefit, whatever that was.
 
2014-02-02 12:06:35 PM  

hasty ambush: In most cases that is because the lying coont told their husband/boyfriend that they were the father . There was that whole trust in relationship thing that women are successful in exploiting. Rare is the man who will accept the paternity of a kid he knows isn't his. And if he has been found to have been lied to why shouldn't the law allow for a correction, along with at least a civil prosecution of the mom for fraud?


Yes. It's the "lying coonts", not the numerous deadbeat dads who far outnumber the situations you describe who make up the rules.

And the law doesn't allow for correction or remediation in the face of objective proof otherwise? Really?

hasty ambush: Which does not keep Obama and other feminists from demanding otherwise.

;As a controversial bill banning federal abortion funding heads to the House floor this week, the Obama administration is threatening a veto if it reaches the president's desk.


Do you enjoy being an open, repeated liar?

The bill mentioned in your linked article calls hormonal birth control and the morning after pill abortion methods. Neither induce abortion.

hasty ambush: Plus just because and organization can't using federal funds for abortions the availability of those funds doe snot prevent it from directing its other revenue for abortions-the x among of federal dollars they receive for rent, building maintenance and condoms mean d they can take a similar amount, from a different source formally dedicated to such things and use it for abortions. So in way the tax pauyers are still funding abortions.


Actually, no they can't. Planned Parenthood and similar organizations who provide abortion services in addition to reproductive health have to account for every cent of federal money they are given and be able to objectively demonstrate they were not used to provide abortive services.

Which, again - is required by the various hyde amendments.

hasty ambush: And your point would be what? That perhaps women are more likly report things like being assaulted?


Still waiting for those numbers.

hasty ambush: It seems strange to me that the gender fighting for the right to serve as a Marine Rifleman or Army infantryman and endure the rigors of the battlefield on an equal footing with men find themselves unable to handle the rigors of the civilian world on an equal basis. Unless of course they are going to insist on special battlefield rules to accommodate them.


3.bp.blogspot.com
What does this have to do with women being abused?
 
2014-02-02 12:06:41 PM  

hardinparamedic: Maybe what I just got you will be a small consolation for putting up with me being an asshole these past few posts.


I'll try to phrase this nicely.  You didn't "get that" from him.  That was his point all along.  You just finally understood it. Your political views aren't particularly radical, a lot of people will go right along with you on that road.

I say this as a random internet stranger friend weirdo.   Take courses on debating, take courses on logic.  You'll be much more capable of channeling your awesome passion into credible debate.

/I now want a Scootie Jr.  When I win the lottery, I'm having one fabricated.
//If some crazy skilled sheet metal worker wants to make me one, I'll get you my contact information.
 
2014-02-02 12:07:30 PM  

umad: hardinparamedic: That's the thing. There is no serious scenario for MRA. They really don't care about men's rights as a whole - they legitimately refer to any male who does not share their views as "traitors to their gender", akin to the whole "Traitor to their race" thing that is so popular in white supremacy.

But it is the MRA's who fight against strawmen. You are farking delusional.


Did you miss my post where the head of UCAS (not an MRA group, FYI) said that men will soon become "the most disadvantaged group in the country when it comes to going to university". How is that not a problem?

Do you also not see problems with family courts, which I handily linked a group that supports men's rights - http://www.fathers-4-justice.org

Are you actually saying that fathers4justice should just disband, as they don't have a 'serious scenario'?
 
2014-02-02 12:08:08 PM  

TwistedFark: This is likely just cheap cover for yourself, I doubt you wanted anyone to get anything out of discourse with you. I'm fairly certain that you did it solely for your own benefit, whatever that was.


Yep. I'm a sociopathic criminal mastermind of internet debate.

My gambit of engaging someone bluntly on a forum known for blunt conversation about topics posted to it is all part of a brilliant plan to do something evil. And Nefarious.
 
2014-02-02 12:11:19 PM  

meep3d: Did you miss my post where the head of UCAS (not an MRA group, FYI) said that men will soon become "the most disadvantaged group in the country when it comes to going to university". How is that not a problem?


Yeah, you apparently ignored the rest of the article, and just cherrypicked the part you liked.
 
2014-02-02 12:12:31 PM  
hardinparamedic:
But if it makes you feel persecuted and victimized by me, you're more than welcome to feel that way.

I don't feel 'persecuted' or 'victimised'. I just think you're rude and obnoxious and using your superiority complex to justify your antisocial behaviour. But this is the Internet, where the anonymity for some reason makes people think it's somehow fine to act in a way that would normally be socially unacceptable.
 
2014-02-02 12:13:48 PM  

meep3d: I don't feel 'persecuted' or 'victimised'. I just think you're rude and obnoxious and using your superiority complex to justify your antisocial behaviour. But this is the Internet, where the anonymity for some reason makes people think it's somehow fine to act in a way that would normally be socially unacceptable.


No. I'm just as rude and obnoxious to people who treat women like crap, or defend people who do, in real life.
 
2014-02-02 12:15:25 PM  

Shakespeare's Sister: I HATE the color pink. My daughter loves it. I let her wear pink because it's just a color, not a statement of politics. Those politics are put on the color by us; the color does not care about anything.

The feminist movement was born, in part, out of the idea that men controlled everything and did not care a damn about women or how that affected them.

Unfortunately, when the feminist movement started changing things, they did to the men what they argued men had done to them: made changes, made demands, and pushed things forward without concern to how this would affect men. They are just as guilty as gendered, limited, and selfish thinking as they stated men were.

I do not buy into this women make X amount of money per hour versus men who make Y per hour for the same job. IF it is true it is because women tend to leave the work world to have babies or take care of family members who are terminal, not because they have vaginas.

I hate that the courts are biased toward women, even when it's clear the woman has no earthly business having the kids. Giving birth make make a woman a mother, but it does not make her a mommy.


Thanks! for This!
The pendulum will swing round again when we realise the feminist system does not work.
It destroys families, kills kids and ruins civilisation.

Whatever it is that nature favors with survival...
Works.
That which vegetates & gets fat,
becomes -Food-
 
2014-02-02 12:15:54 PM  

hardinparamedic: That's all I wanted out of this entire thing was for you to see the kind of people who you were defending. Even a little bit.

Maybe what I just got you will be a small consolation for putting up with me being an asshole these past few posts


I appreciate the gesture.  Make no mistake though, I wasn't defending anyone.  I was raising my experiences as empirical evidence that there is injustice in the archaic system we've adopted for all sides.

I doubt seriously that your posts were educational vehicles though.  You are the extreme polar opposite of those you despise.  No extreme ever has the entire right answer.  Ever.
 
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