Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Salon)   Mother nearly falls into a fit of apoplexy and is forced to confront her irrational fear of the color pink when her daughter asks for a pink pair or "sparkly princess tennis shoes." Because FEMINISM   (salon.com ) divider line
    More: Ironic, phobias, Disney Princess  
•       •       •

8989 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Feb 2014 at 8:14 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



332 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-02-02 12:08:59 AM  
Do people actually read slate or is it some type of autoerotic literary outlet for the people who write that drivel?
 
2014-02-02 12:21:19 AM  

feckingmorons: Do people actually read slate or is it some type of autoerotic literary outlet for the people who write that drivel?


This is Salon, but it's a fair question here too.
 
2014-02-02 12:38:00 AM  

violentsalvation: feckingmorons: Do people actually read slate or is it some type of autoerotic literary outlet for the people who write that drivel?

This is Salon, but it's a fair question here too.


I like Glenn Greenwald's columns, he wrote for Salon for awhile.
 
2014-02-02 12:53:05 AM  
1. They're just shoes.
2. You don't have to buy them.

Signed,
- a feminist
 
2014-02-02 01:20:51 AM  
Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.
 
2014-02-02 02:28:10 AM  
Another uncomfortable thought occurs to me. If I had a little boy who wanted to wear dresses, or only wear pink, I would make sure I nurtured that.

Yup, another open-minded feminist.  She'd probably yell at you in the store if you told your boy he couldn't wear a dress, too.
 
2014-02-02 07:16:07 AM  
Two points: At least she has the awareness to self reflect on her feelings and opinions; and she nought her daughter those shoes. She's still a fairly judgmental person. My wife, a successful physician, mother and big fan of Disney Princesses would probably tell her to lighten up. You can let your daughters be themselves and still instill confidence in them.
 
2014-02-02 08:05:11 AM  
Take a Xanax, lady.
 
2014-02-02 08:17:36 AM  
Oh good, another strawman RadFem that everyone can use to claim represents the actual philosophy of Feminism and dismiss arguments about civil and wage inequality, impropriety in prosecution of rape and abuse cases, and other bullshiat.
 
2014-02-02 08:18:28 AM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: 1. They're just shoes.
2. You don't have to buy them.

Signed,
- a feminist


3. Pink is just a color
4. LPGA or Tennis may help your cause
 
2014-02-02 08:18:37 AM  

feckingmorons: Do people actually read slate


No, especially people who submit Salon articles
 
2014-02-02 08:18:45 AM  

BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.


Feminism might be about a lot of things but true equality is not one of them
 
2014-02-02 08:22:06 AM  

Warlordtrooper: BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.

Feminism might be about a lot of things but true equality is not one of them


Thanks for mansplaining that.
 
2014-02-02 08:22:32 AM  
Nutters come in all varieties. They are the spice of life.
 
2014-02-02 08:23:06 AM  

Warlordtrooper: BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.

Feminism might be about a lot of things but true equality is not one of them


Oh don't stop there. Tell us their sinister agenda.
 
2014-02-02 08:23:53 AM  
"She lives in the San Francisco Bay Area, where she is working on her first novel."

Hmm, sometimes I worry about how mankind seems to be regressing into autocracy because of the indifference of most people to the loss of the freedoms they gained over the last several centuries, but I guess sparkly pink princess shoes are just as valid a concern to San Francisco writers.
 
2014-02-02 08:24:13 AM  

hardinparamedic: Oh good, another strawman RadFem that everyone can use to claim represents the actual philosophy of Feminism and dismiss arguments about civil and wage inequality, impropriety in prosecution of rape and abuse cases, and other bullshiat.


looks like you got some sand in your vagina sugartits...
 
2014-02-02 08:24:40 AM  
Almost as fun as when I find a serious researcher who tries to rationalize the pink/blue dimorphism as either a evolutionary selection or some shiat like "blue dyes were expensive and reserved for boys, but pinks were cheap and leftover for girls". You know, because the trend of dressing small children differently is modern. Before 1930 we saw girls dressed in "calming blues" and pink was a warm male color.

For example, before colorization Shirley Temple didn't wear loads of pink.


ecx.images-amazon.com

1.bp.blogspot.com

ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2014-02-02 08:24:43 AM  
Damn, it's a good thing the kid wasn't looking at a bicycle instead of shoes.
 
2014-02-02 08:25:24 AM  

ghare: Warlordtrooper: BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.

Feminism might be about a lot of things but true equality is not one of them

Thanks for mansplaining that.


How many feminists do you know that will argue for equality of men in cases where females have an advantage over males?
 
2014-02-02 08:25:47 AM  
I barely made it a few paragraphs in, but I find it strange that she lets her children wear whatever they want, unless it's the Barbie pink crap. How about being a parent and help guide your child into appropriate social behaviour, like not wearing pajamas in public, and that sometimes you can't do whatever you want (like wearing boots in the summer), so you just have to live with it?
 
2014-02-02 08:25:56 AM  
Wow, that article was a really long winded way of explaining "author is from the San Francisco Bay Area.
 
2014-02-02 08:26:33 AM  
 
2014-02-02 08:27:29 AM  

PawisBetlog: looks like you got some sand in your vagina sugartits...


Well, I can see you failed fourth grade sexual education. ^_^

Since you're new here, allow me to elaborate: People like this are wet dream wank material for MRAs and general idiots, because they serve as living proof of the strawmen they like to construct about feminists.

Warlordtrooper: How many feminists do you know that will argue for equality of men in cases where females have an advantage over males?


You mean the inequality in family court situations which MRAs tend to wank about as the reason they're general pigs to women?
 
2014-02-02 08:27:35 AM  

I Am The Bishop Of East Anglia: "She lives in the San Francisco Bay Area, where she is working on her first novel."

Hmm, sometimes I worry about how mankind seems to be regressing into autocracy because of the indifference of most people to the loss of the freedoms they gained over the last several centuries, but I guess sparkly pink princess shoes are just as valid a concern to San Francisco writers.


I like the fact that it convienently leaves out the mention of the guy who helped her have those 2 kids, and is supporting her and her kids shoe shopping sprees while she tries to find herself most likely somewhere in her late 30s, working on her first novel.
 
2014-02-02 08:27:40 AM  
As the father of a two year old girl who I hope will grow up to be whatever she wants to be... it's almost impossible to avoid/resist the Pink.  It's everywhere, and unless you sew your own or make your girl dress in boys' clothes (options: military themed, construction themed, or Cars) you will have to give in at some point.
 
2014-02-02 08:28:32 AM  
Your mom-blog sucks, and you are a double-standard pushing idiot.  You are not helping, stop.
 
2014-02-02 08:29:34 AM  
Wow. Just wow.
 
2014-02-02 08:30:03 AM  
If you cannot let your daughter have these shoes because of your ideas, then you are just as controlled by gender conformity rules as anyone else.  You just react AGAINST rather than TO.  Either way you are not as enlightened as you think you are.
 
2014-02-02 08:31:33 AM  
This is like the polar opposite of that other mom who was worried that her kid girl was emotionally damaged since she didn't want a PINK bike, but instead wanted a blue one.
 
2014-02-02 08:33:17 AM  
My little brother and his sweetie swore up and down that their daughters wouldn't go down that pink Disney Princess road.

Yeah, that lasted maybe three years.
 
2014-02-02 08:33:59 AM  
Feminism is a shield weak willed women use to protect themselves against the world.
 
2014-02-02 08:35:07 AM  
That was very feminist of her to describe her daughter as physically attractive.  Because at the root of it, that's what really counts...

She needs to continue her journey of self discovery, she's young still, she has time.

I raised two princesses decades ago, they're feminists now.  Every little girl is a princess, but as a parent, it was up to me to define what "princess culture" was.  Princesses have responsibilities, they have to earn trust, they have learn to work hard and think for themselves.  In short, you can be willing to lay down your life for your princess, but you can't shelter them from the the world.  Let them escape for a few hours in the princess movies or with sparkly pink shoes.  You're teaching them critical thinking after all, they'll work it all out on their own.
 
2014-02-02 08:35:29 AM  

maxheck: My little brother and his sweetie swore up and down that their daughters wouldn't go down that pink Disney Princess road.

Yeah, that lasted maybe three years.


No one can escape what the mouse has wrought. He watches us from upon high as we mortals quiver at his next seasonal toy line.
 
2014-02-02 08:36:11 AM  
The kid is 3. Just concentrate on the big stuff, like not screaming in restaurants. The princess shoes thing will sort itself out.
 
2014-02-02 08:36:43 AM  
While not always the case, it seems to me that children wearing ridiculous clothing is the result of a parent being lazy and not wanting to deal with a tantrum. Yes, allowing children to make choices for themselves and self-identify is definitely necessary to raising a successful well adjusted adult. You also have to teach them to make the right choices. Sweaters and winter clothes in summer is not one of them, and it's your duty to explain *why*. Not because "people will look at you funny" or "people will judge you based on appearances", even though they will and that in itself can be cause of limits in life (news flash: appearances and how you present yourself matters!), but because "you'll get dehydrated if you try and play soccer in a parka. Now get in short sleeves and a t-shirt before I jump down your throat and stomp on your damn liver, asshole. You make daddy want to drink."
 
2014-02-02 08:36:57 AM  

Lsherm: Another uncomfortable thought occurs to me. If I had a little boy who wanted to wear dresses, or only wear pink, I would make sure I nurtured that.

Yup, another open-minded feminist.  She'd probably yell at you in the store if you told your boy he couldn't wear a dress, too.


You do realize that this is autobiographical, right?  She's admitting this to herself and to the reader.  It's like she's undergoing some growth and evolving her viewpoint as she confronts her own prejudices.  Gosh, what a horrible person.

/You might want to examine yourself, or at least your reading comprehension.
 
2014-02-02 08:37:11 AM  
Mommy blogger? Not reading
 
2014-02-02 08:38:59 AM  
What i want to know is why this mother is so obviously transphobic and hateful to her proud queer toddler

It's OBVIOUS that her 3 year old daughter is gender self identified as female, and needs to be supported as a FtF transition candidate.  I would even go so far as to say that the child should start hormone replacement therapy so as not to miss the critical window to be able to look as girly as possible despite her bad luck to be born as the wrong sex.


Without the support this little GIRL(yes really, you can call someone like this by the gender they choose) needs, she could die. What do you cis people even know about these issues.
 
2014-02-02 08:42:23 AM  
First world problems.
 
2014-02-02 08:42:27 AM  
My wife grew up wearing pinks and purples, and can sing every song Disney has ever produced by heart.  She's also an Army officer with a Combat Action Badge, served with a Field Artillery battalion and an infantry brigade, and does Tough Mudder and Spartan runs for fun.  She still loves pink sparkly stuff, and went with a friend to the Frozen Sing Along last night.  This woman reads way too much into color choices.
 
2014-02-02 08:43:41 AM  
This actually reminds me of an acquaintance from years back that wanted to raise their child gender neutral. If they started playing more with "Boy Toys", they would push more "Girl Toys" on them, and vice versa. Every now and then I wonder how that turned out.
 
2014-02-02 08:44:00 AM  

ghare: Warlordtrooper: BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.

Feminism might be about a lot of things but true equality is not one of them

Thanks for mansplaining that.


"Mansplaining"... 90% of the time it is used as a feminists way of telling men to sit down, shut up, and learn their place.
 
2014-02-02 08:44:18 AM  
She would die if she saw my 8yos room. Pink curtains, pink bunk bed, pink fan, pink butterflies.

Hell if my son wanted his room pink id be ok with that too.

Its just a color. Get over it.

/purle is best though
 
2014-02-02 08:44:44 AM  

lanabanabutt: Wow, that article was a really long winded way of explaining "author is from the San Francisco Bay Area.


I'm from Berkeley and I say yeah this.
 
2014-02-02 08:46:08 AM  

Slartibreakfast: "Mansplaining"... 90% of the time it is used as a feminists way of telling men to sit down, shut up, and learn their place.


You sound incensed that someone would tell you to STFU when talking about something you're blatantly wrong about or trying to spin.
 
2014-02-02 08:46:19 AM  

XveryYpettyZ: Lsherm: Another uncomfortable thought occurs to me. If I had a little boy who wanted to wear dresses, or only wear pink, I would make sure I nurtured that.

Yup, another open-minded feminist.  She'd probably yell at you in the store if you told your boy he couldn't wear a dress, too.

You do realize that this is autobiographical, right?  She's admitting this to herself and to the reader.  It's like she's undergoing some growth and evolving her viewpoint as she confronts her own prejudices.  Gosh, what a horrible person.

/You might want to examine yourself, or at least your reading comprehension.


Reading comprehension has a well known feminist bias
 
2014-02-02 08:47:36 AM  

Welcome to Fark Feminism Discussion Club


img.fark.net

 
2014-02-02 08:47:45 AM  

willfullyobscure: What i want to know is why this mother is so obviously transphobic and hateful ...


I know you're thrilled to think you've found someone who shares your POV, just keep it down for a few more hours. The grownups are sleeping.
 
2014-02-02 08:47:52 AM  

Slartibreakfast: "Mansplaining"... 90% of the time it is used as a feminists way of telling men to sit down, shut up, and learn their place.


Just hit her till sandwiches appear.
 
2014-02-02 08:48:55 AM  
One of my oldest friends is an executive at Fox* and the breadwinner in her family. Her husband is a public school teacher and musician. They have a very successful marriage, and had the careers been reversed, no one would bat an eye.

They are happily raising two sparkly pink daughters. I think the role model they see in their own family will more than make up for the fact that the girls love princesses and rainbows.

Feminism isn't about women fitting a single narrow niche. It's about women having the right to do anything they want.

*yes, I know.
 
2014-02-02 08:52:23 AM  

hardinparamedic: Slartibreakfast: "Mansplaining"... 90% of the time it is used as a feminists way of telling men to sit down, shut up, and learn their place.

You sound incensed that someone would tell you to STFU when talking about something you're blatantly wrong about or trying to spin.


Wow, i must have really struck a nerve to get you so riled up princess.
 
2014-02-02 08:53:17 AM  

willfullyobscure: What i want to know is why this mother is so obviously transphobic and hateful to her proud queer toddler

It's OBVIOUS that her 3 year old daughter is gender self identified as female, and needs to be supported as a FtF transition candidate.  I would even go so far as to say that the child should start hormone replacement therapy so as not to miss the critical window to be able to look as girly as possible despite her bad luck to be born as the wrong sex.


Without the support this little GIRL(yes really, you can call someone like this by the gender they choose) needs, she could die. What do you cis people even know about these issues.


notsureifserious.jpg
 
2014-02-02 08:54:29 AM  
I'm glad she's at least self- aware enough to recognize her own conflict. Nothing wrong with that.
 
2014-02-02 08:55:10 AM  
Dafuq did I just skim?
 
2014-02-02 08:56:27 AM  

Slartibreakfast: hardinparamedic: Slartibreakfast: "Mansplaining"... 90% of the time it is used as a feminists way of telling men to sit down, shut up, and learn their place.

You sound incensed that someone would tell you to STFU when talking about something you're blatantly wrong about or trying to spin.

Wow, i must have really struck a nerve to get you so riled up princess.


Why do I have to be "riled up"? Why can't I just rationally point out that your comment makes no sense in the grand scheme of the conversation without taking into account an ulterior motive or agenda?

Seriously, don't be number 2 on the Saddest Internet Argument Techniques.
 
2014-02-02 08:57:00 AM  

Lsherm: Another uncomfortable thought occurs to me. If I had a little boy who wanted to wear dresses, or only wear pink, I would make sure I nurtured that.

Yup, another open-minded feminist.  She'd probably yell at you in the store if you told your boy he couldn't wear a dress, too.


Maybe you should have read the whole thing. It ended with her acknowledging her own bias, deciding not to push that on her daughter. She bought her the shoes and seemed glad she did in the end.
 
2014-02-02 08:57:24 AM  

BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.


Lsherm: Another uncomfortable thought occurs to me. If I had a little boy who wanted to wear dresses, or only wear pink, I would make sure I nurtured that.

Yup, another open-minded feminist.  She'd probably yell at you in the store if you told your boy he couldn't wear a dress, too.


Didn't actually read the article, did you two?

/show us on the doll where the feminist touched you.
 
2014-02-02 08:57:49 AM  

pxlboy: willfullyobscure: What i want to know is why this mother is so obviously transphobic and hateful to her proud queer toddler

It's OBVIOUS that her 3 year old daughter is gender self identified as female, and needs to be supported as a FtF transition candidate.  I would even go so far as to say that the child should start hormone replacement therapy so as not to miss the critical window to be able to look as girly as possible despite her bad luck to be born as the wrong sex.


Without the support this little GIRL(yes really, you can call someone like this by the gender they choose) needs, she could die. What do you cis people even know about these issues.

notsureifserious.jpg


His handle is willfully obscure.  Some of the more amusing satire I've read recently.  Nicely done.
 
2014-02-02 08:57:59 AM  
www.thetruthaboutguns.com

FWIW, my wife hates the idea of pink guns... I often suggest that she buy one, just to see her reaction.
 
2014-02-02 08:58:52 AM  

pxlboy: notsureifserious.jpg


If you think he's serious, I have a bridge in the Sahara to sell you... cash up front, though.
 
2014-02-02 08:59:33 AM  

rzrwiresunrise: Dafuq did I just skim?


Nothing terribly deep.

Seems to have hit a nerve in some Internet Tough Guys, though.
 
2014-02-02 08:59:43 AM  
Going to brainwash my newborn daughter that light purple is better than pink. Don't mind pink, but lavender is in fact better.
 
2014-02-02 08:59:45 AM  

Warlordtrooper: BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.

Feminism might be about a lot of things but true equality is not one of them


Your post may be about a lot of things, but understanding anything in the article is not one of them.
 
2014-02-02 09:00:01 AM  

hardinparamedic: You mean the inequality in family court situations which MRAs tend to wank about as the reason they're general pigs to women?


The only really serious scenario for men's rights activists I can think of involves allegations of sexual contact with children.

Male child with female teacher, telling the truth= "Good job, slugger"
Male child with female teacher, lying = "Eh, she's innocent. Boys will be boys, but he needs a talking to"

Female child with male teacher, telling the truth = "Hang him high"
Female child with male teacher, lying = "Hang him high, just to be safe"

There IS a disproportionate burden for proof of innocence on men involved with care of children. And some of the more vindictive children learn that they can bully a male adult with threats of "he touched me". I've worked with children in previous jobs (and loved it), but I will admit to coming to a rational conclusion: if the threat of child molesting is real, it's better to murder the kid. Even if proven guilty, you can be a reformed murderer. And secondly, they'd perform an autopsy on the body and find claims of sexual contact are false. Small comfort, but it still beats being labeled "accused sex offender".
 
2014-02-02 09:00:15 AM  
Christ, what an asshole.
 
2014-02-02 09:01:02 AM  

hardinparamedic: pxlboy: notsureifserious.jpg

If you think he's serious, I have a bridge in the Sahara to sell you... cash up front, though.


It was like a stealth Onion posting. It seemed be to be too laden with buzzwords to be real.

I thought it was a good parody. I've seen posts like that on Tumblr written without a hint of irony.
 
2014-02-02 09:01:09 AM  

Nabb1: Two points: At least she has the awareness to self reflect on her feelings and opinions; and she nought her daughter those shoes. She's still a fairly judgmental person. My wife, a successful physician, mother and big fan of Disney Princesses would probably tell her to lighten up. You can let your daughters be themselves and still instill confidence in them.


Agreed.

Her heart is definitely in the right place and she's self aware enough to know when she's pushing her own shiat on her kids. I don't think people should be coming down hard on her, because really what harm did she do? Admit that she was wrong about pinning her hang-ups on her kid?

Really, I wish more people in general would reflect on this. I see an awful lot of bad parenting going on mostly related to people putting their own fears and failures on their children.

The motto I have is simple: Teach the kids the game, let them decide how they want to play it.
 
2014-02-02 09:01:13 AM  
This type of woman makes us feminists look bad. Anyone can wear pink. It's a cute color. Sparkles are pretty. Deal.
 
2014-02-02 09:01:38 AM  
This is the sort of thing that would raise the hair on my ex's neck; not so much an outrage but "worth examining".
 
2014-02-02 09:02:45 AM  

hardinparamedic: Slartibreakfast: hardinparamedic: Slartibreakfast: "Mansplaining"... 90% of the time it is used as a feminists way of telling men to sit down, shut up, and learn their place.

You sound incensed that someone would tell you to STFU when talking about something you're blatantly wrong about or trying to spin.

Wow, i must have really struck a nerve to get you so riled up princess.

Why do I have to be "riled up"? Why can't I just rationally point out that your comment makes no sense in the grand scheme of the conversation without taking into account an ulterior motive or agenda?

Seriously, don't be number 2 on the Saddest Internet Argument Techniques.


First of all, i never gave my opinion on the article, just pointed out that some feminists love to always act like victims, doesn't matter if it's real or imagined.

Second, oh fark OFF... there is no rational debate with coonts like you.
 
2014-02-02 09:03:39 AM  

Warlordtrooper: ghare: Warlordtrooper: BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.

Feminism might be about a lot of things but true equality is not one of them

Thanks for mansplaining that.

How many feminists do you know that will argue for equality of men in cases where females have an advantage over males?


About half of the women I know who consider themselves feminist would, when confronted with those extremely rare circumstances.

Just for everyone's amusement, why don't you give us some examples of places were you think women have advantages over men.
 
2014-02-02 09:03:55 AM  
In lieu of making fun of this woman, I'll have a go at giving a serious answer:

The problem with heteronormativity, submission to the husband, houswifing as a career, etc has nothing to do with the things themselves, the problem was always that they were the  only option for half the population.  They're still all completely legitimate as choices, and if your girl wants to grow up to be a wilting flower whose primary goal is to be rescued by a handsome guy, you should consider buggering off and letting her instead of being the stereotypical mean and demanding parent that tries to force their kids to re-live their own life from a '90s movie.

OK, yeah, I couldn't go a full paragraph without making fun of her.  Sorry, it's Salon, I don't think they have a single writer that's better than two standard deviations down from the median IQ.
 
2014-02-02 09:04:22 AM  

Zasteva: Warlordtrooper: ghare: Warlordtrooper: BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.

Feminism might be about a lot of things but true equality is not one of them

Thanks for mansplaining that.

How many feminists do you know that will argue for equality of men in cases where females have an advantage over males?

About half of the women I know who consider themselves feminist would, when confronted with those extremely rare circumstances.

Just for everyone's amusement, why don't you give us some examples of places were you think women have advantages over men.


Getting out of traffic violations?
 
2014-02-02 09:04:56 AM  

BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.


That sums up modern feminism for the most part
 
2014-02-02 09:05:34 AM  

pxlboy: I've seen posts like that on Tumblr written without a hint of irony.


Tumblr is a wretched hive of sum, villainy, PC ridiculousness, and ACTUAL RadFem.

Hell. Even I make fun of those people, and I'm pretty into feminism and social justice causes.

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: The only really serious scenario for men's rights activists I can think of involves allegations of sexual contact with children.


That's the thing. There is no serious scenario for MRA. They really don't care about men's rights as a whole - they legitimately refer to any male who does not share their views as "traitors to their gender", akin to the whole "Traitor to their race" thing that is so popular in white supremacy. They just latch on to certain issues of judicial and social reform, such as the area you just mentioned, or false rape allegations, or family court reform issues, and like a parasite or a creationist wedge theory use it to promote their idea that treating women sub-human and like a pig is justified because of X and Y.
 
2014-02-02 09:06:57 AM  

hardinparamedic: Oh good, another strawman RadFem that everyone can use to claim represents the actual philosophy of Feminism


Wait, how is it a straw feminist argument when an actual feminist wrote the article?
 
2014-02-02 09:07:03 AM  

Slartibreakfast: First of all, i never gave my opinion on the article, just pointed out that some feminists love to always act like victims, doesn't matter if it's real or imagined.

Second, oh fark OFF... there is no rational debate with coonts like you.


Because when I want rational debate about feminism, I refer to someone as a coont.

And that would be dick, if you want to be anatomically correct, sir. ^_^
 
2014-02-02 09:08:13 AM  
this lady is kind of the exact opposite of what "open-mindedness" even means
 
2014-02-02 09:08:33 AM  

hardinparamedic: pxlboy: I've seen posts like that on Tumblr written without a hint of irony.

Tumblr is a wretched hive of sum, villainy, PC ridiculousness, and ACTUAL RadFem.

Hell. Even I make fun of those people, and I'm pretty into feminism and social justice causes.

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: The only really serious scenario for men's rights activists I can think of involves allegations of sexual contact with children.

That's the thing. There is no serious scenario for MRA. They really don't care about men's rights as a whole - they legitimately refer to any male who does not share their views as "traitors to their gender", akin to the whole "Traitor to their race" thing that is so popular in white supremacy. They just latch on to certain issues of judicial and social reform, such as the area you just mentioned, or false rape allegations, or family court reform issues, and like a parasite or a creationist wedge theory use it to promote their idea that treating women sub-human and like a pig is justified because of X and Y.


The only person on my blog is an old friend of mine, her posts are full of the aforementioned. I go for the humor and art blogs.
 
2014-02-02 09:08:34 AM  

memebot_of_doom: Wait, how is it a straw feminist argument when an actual feminist wrote the article?


The actual article was self-introspection about her own prejudices and gender biases.

The straw comes into play at how several posters with poor reading comprehension have demonstrated their biases in this thread.
 
2014-02-02 09:08:39 AM  
I'm pregnant with my 2nd child at the moment, first daughter, and I've been thinking a lot about the whole princess thing.

I farking HATE "princess culture", always have, even when I was a kid, and I absolutely will not encourage it with my little girl when she is very young. However, once she reaches an age where she's more influenced by her peers, if she wants to watch princess movies and play with princess things I won't forbid it and won't make her feel bad for liking these things (while still encouraging her to have other interests, of course).

I'll probably try to steer her more towards the more competent princesses though. Like Princess Bubblegum from Adventure Time. She smart, gets shiat done and doesn't take crap from anyone. If more princesses were written like her I'd have a lot fewer issues with the whole genre.

And man, pink is almost impossible to avoid! I'm aiming for a less than 25% concentration for her wardrobe at the moment but I'm not sure how I'll fare.
 
2014-02-02 09:08:52 AM  
I'll say this... I actually enjoy being the cool indestructable uncle. I have Disney Princesses hanging on my boots, and hardy lads trying to punch the living shiat out of me. And yet I take my neices and nephews in stride.

How messed up is that as a measure of love?
 
2014-02-02 09:09:18 AM  
My three-year-old daughter is also way into Disney princesses. It would probably bother me more if she weren't also into robots and watching footage of Apollo missions from launch to lunar EVA.
 
2014-02-02 09:10:24 AM  

pxlboy: The only person on my blog is an old friend of mine, her posts are full of the aforementioned. I go for the humor and art blogs.


I deleted my tumblr after a post about another user which used the word "attention whore" got me several multi-paragraph, angry replies about "slut shaming".

The person in question was using a non-existent illness (Chronic Lyme Disease) to beg for money.
 
2014-02-02 09:10:29 AM  

Witty Comment: While not always the case, it seems to me that children wearing ridiculous clothing is the result of a parent being lazy and not wanting to deal with a tantrum. Yes, allowing children to make choices for themselves and self-identify is definitely necessary to raising a successful well adjusted adult. You also have to teach them to make the right choices. Sweaters and winter clothes in summer is not one of them, and it's your duty to explain *why*. Not because "people will look at you funny" or "people will judge you based on appearances", even though they will and that in itself can be cause of limits in life (news flash: appearances and how you present yourself matters!), but because "you'll get dehydrated if you try and play soccer in a parka. Now get in short sleeves and a t-shirt before I jump down your throat and stomp on your damn liver, asshole. You make daddy want to drink."


This.

My kids were given the privilege of choosing their attire, but they knew I had final say. They could always operate within the guidelines I set out for them. It's amazing how creative kids can get with outside-the-box thinking of how to operate inside the lines and get the most for their efforts.

Encourage that, TFA twat, celebrate that.
 
2014-02-02 09:11:01 AM  

Yogimus: Feminism is a shield weak willed women use to protect themselves against the world.


Your dadaist poetry is coming along nicely. Keep up the good work! You might try more repetitive syllables though, lest someone mistake it for having actual meaning.
 
2014-02-02 09:11:03 AM  

maxheck: I'll say this... I actually enjoy being the cool indestructable uncle. I have Disney Princesses hanging on my boots, and hardy lads trying to punch the living shiat out of me. And yet I take my neices and nephews in stride.

How messed up is that as a measure of love?


Nieces and nephews are all the fun of having kids without all the responsibility.

I've got 6 of them and I try to be the cool or fun uncle.

Took the oldest to DragonCon a couple of years ago and he had a blast.
 
2014-02-02 09:11:12 AM  
Well that was a massive load of self-indulgent crap.
 
2014-02-02 09:11:53 AM  
You can be as feminist as you want but I'm still going to cut you slack on your crazy because you're a woman and I'm sexist.
 
2014-02-02 09:13:08 AM  

hardinparamedic: pxlboy: The only person on my blog is an old friend of mine, her posts are full of the aforementioned. I go for the humor and art blogs.

I deleted my tumblr after a post about another user which used the word "attention whore" got me several multi-paragraph, angry replies about "slut shaming".

The person in question was using a non-existent illness (Chronic Lyme Disease) to beg for money.


I'm not surprised. The poster to which I refer is similarly inclined towards PC posting, "privilege" posts, and stuff about chronic pain or illness (but does not specify which), and routinely makes excuses why she can't get healthy.

It's a slow-motion horror show.
 
2014-02-02 09:14:17 AM  

ghare: Thanks for mansplaining that.


Mansplaining is an offensive word, used to degrade anyone that doesn't agree with feminism or questions how it actually deals with equality. It is however quite useful for letting the world know that the person using it is radical with no interest in equality.
 
2014-02-02 09:15:18 AM  
huh I thought it was a well-written essay about dealing with the whole pink/princessy thing. She went back and bought her kid the shoes. Better than an airhead mom who does stupid things without thinking about them or trying to correct bad decision.

Reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CU040Hqbas
 
2014-02-02 09:15:43 AM  

Warlordtrooper: ghare: Warlordtrooper: BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.

Feminism might be about a lot of things but true equality is not one of them

Thanks for mansplaining that.

How many feminists do you know that will argue for equality of men in cases where females have an advantage over males?


You have nothing to say of any value, boy. Go away, you bother me.
 
2014-02-02 09:15:56 AM  

hardinparamedic: That's the thing. There is no serious scenario for MRA. They really don't care about men's rights as a whole - they legitimately refer to any male who does not share their views as "traitors to their gender", akin to the whole "Traitor to their race" thing that is so popular in white supremacy. They just latch on to certain issues of judicial and social reform, such as the area you just mentioned, or false rape allegations, or family court reform issues, and like a parasite or a creationist wedge theory use it to promote their idea that treating women sub-human and like a pig is justified because of X and Y.


But you don't understand! Not being able to tell a dame she has nice gams is exactly the same as allegations of rape! Why don't their small, inferior minds grasp that?!?!

*adjusts fedora*

/It hurt to type that
 
2014-02-02 09:16:04 AM  

onyxruby: ghare: Thanks for mansplaining that.

Mansplaining is an offensive word, used to degrade anyone that doesn't agree with feminism or questions how it actually deals with equality. It is however quite useful for letting the world know that the person using it is radical with no interest in equality.


Now that. That is riled up. Wow!
 
2014-02-02 09:16:29 AM  
Just a little secret, ladies, the foot in the jackboot that keeps you down belongs to a woman.

Generally speaking, you are by far more oppressive to each other than men, in this modern society of ours.

You refuse to work for other women, you partake in slut shaming, you actively destroy each other socially, and god help any woman that refuses to conform to social norms. I refer to feminists as cows not just for their general appearance, but for the herd instinct. You don't breastfeed? OSTRICIZE! You don't WANT a career? OSTRICIZE!

This of course applies only to feminists, because normal women are real human beings deserving of respect. (Cue the outcries of projection where you tell me what my interpretation of a normal woman is)


/a normal woman is one that has a sense of self and self respect not dependant on others for a sense of worth
 
2014-02-02 09:16:46 AM  

Yogimus: Feminism is a shield weak willed women use to protect themselves against the world.


No. True feminism is about equality between the sexes. For the longest time women and men have been shaped by these damaging and restrictive ideas of what it means to be a man or woman.

Boys are suppose to only like blue, manly colors while playing with boy toys and then grow up to do manly jobs. Women meanwhile are suppose to only like pink, are only suppose to play with girl toys and grow up to do "woman's work".

True feminism is something that benefits both men and women, and even transgender people. Unfortunately so many people, women and men included misunderstand what feminism is. You are one of them.
 
2014-02-02 09:17:04 AM  

onyxruby: ghare: Thanks for mansplaining that.

Mansplaining is an offensive word, used to degrade anyone that doesn't agree with feminism or questions how it actually deals with equality. It is however quite useful for letting the world know that the person using it is radical with no interest in equality.


Ah, little boys and their problems.
 
2014-02-02 09:17:47 AM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: 1. They're just shoes.
2. You don't have to buy them.

Signed,
- a feminist


She didn't buy them.  The conflict wasn't just her views, but with her forcing them on her daughter in a manner that really isn't something to fight a child over.  Shoes only have to be able to do the job you are asking of them and be in the price range that you wish to spend, after that, I don't really care what my daughter picks.  My daughter likes dresses, and clothes in bright colors including pink with peace symbols, but I don't care for it.  I reduce the girlie-ness by introducing her to sports watching with me and boxing, not watching boxing, actually putting on gloves and swinging at me.  Anyways, the child will decide for themselves who they are and the parent is to love them and teach them to be safe.  It drives me crazy watching people push their own agendas and taste on children that just doesn't want to spend two hours brushing really long hair.

Signed
-someone who read the article.

/my daughter like pink camouflage
 
2014-02-02 09:18:02 AM  

hardinparamedic: onyxruby: ghare: Thanks for mansplaining that.

Mansplaining is an offensive word, used to degrade anyone that doesn't agree with feminism or questions how it actually deals with equality. It is however quite useful for letting the world know that the person using it is radical with no interest in equality.

Now that. That is riled up. Wow!


Men who have never had a woman show any interest in them are frequently angry little failures.
 
2014-02-02 09:19:06 AM  

Yogimus: You refuse to work for other women, you partake in slut shaming, you actively destroy each other socially, and god help any woman that refuses to conform to social norms. I refer to feminists as cows not just for their general appearance, but for the herd instinct. You don't breastfeed? OSTRICIZE! You don't WANT a career? OSTRICIZE!

This of course applies only to feminists, because normal women are real human beings deserving of respect. (Cue the outcries of projection where you tell me what my interpretation of a normal woman is)


Sorry. No. THIS is riled up.

I was wrong about the previous riling of the ups.

I mean, I can feel the CAPS LOCK anger through my monitor from this one.
 
2014-02-02 09:19:47 AM  

onyxruby: ghare: Thanks for mansplaining that.

Mansplaining is an offensive word, used to degrade anyone that doesn't agree with feminism or questions how it actually deals with equality. It is however quite useful for letting the world know that the person using it is radical with no interest in equality.


Excuse, I'm posting the satirical/ironic fake Poe responses here. Back off, claim jumper.
 
2014-02-02 09:20:50 AM  

ghare: hardinparamedic: onyxruby: ghare: Thanks for mansplaining that.

Mansplaining is an offensive word, used to degrade anyone that doesn't agree with feminism or questions how it actually deals with equality. It is however quite useful for letting the world know that the person using it is radical with no interest in equality.

Now that. That is riled up. Wow!

Men who have never had a woman show any interest in them are frequently angry little failures.


I guess that explains a lot.
 
2014-02-02 09:20:50 AM  

BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.


She actually covered that:

"What's all the panic about? Oh, you can probably already guess. I grew up wanting to be pretty and waiting to be rescued. I'd like something different for my daughters."

So she's insane, but knows it.   Thats half the battle.
 
2014-02-02 09:23:49 AM  

lack of warmth: God Is My Co-Pirate: 1. They're just shoes.
2. You don't have to buy them.

Signed,
- a feminist

She didn't buy them.  The conflict wasn't just her views, but with her forcing them on her daughter in a manner that really isn't something to fight a child over.  Shoes only have to be able to do the job you are asking of them and be in the price range that you wish to spend, after that, I don't really care what my daughter picks.  My daughter likes dresses, and clothes in bright colors including pink with peace symbols, but I don't care for it.  I reduce the girlie-ness by introducing her to sports watching with me and boxing, not watching boxing, actually putting on gloves and swinging at me.  Anyways, the child will decide for themselves who they are and the parent is to love them and teach them to be safe.  It drives me crazy watching people push their own agendas and taste on children that just doesn't want to spend two hours brushing really long hair.

Signed
-someone who read the article.

/my daughter like pink camouflage


Uh... She DID buy them. Aparrently you didn't read too closely.
 
2014-02-02 09:24:14 AM  

hasty ambush: BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.

That sums up modern feminism for the most part


And that's how we know you didn't RTFA.
 
2014-02-02 09:24:22 AM  

AntiGravitas: If you cannot let your daughter have these shoes because of your ideas, then you are just as controlled by gender conformity rules as anyone else.  You just react AGAINST rather than TO.  Either way you are not as enlightened as you think you are.


This.

/breaking down a wall allows you to be on both sides of it
 
2014-02-02 09:24:23 AM  

Nabb1: I guess that explains a lot.


To be fair, that narcissism is a REAL thing in some people.

TheAmazingAtheist, famously, said that women are the real pigs because he's an attractive young man, and they won't even look at him.

How could you resist this face, ladies?

static.tvtropes.org
 
2014-02-02 09:26:04 AM  

cannibalparrot: lack of warmth: God Is My Co-Pirate: 1. They're just shoes.
2. You don't have to buy them.

Signed,
- a feminist

She didn't buy them.  The conflict wasn't just her views, but with her forcing them on her daughter in a manner that really isn't something to fight a child over.  Shoes only have to be able to do the job you are asking of them and be in the price range that you wish to spend, after that, I don't really care what my daughter picks.  My daughter likes dresses, and clothes in bright colors including pink with peace symbols, but I don't care for it.  I reduce the girlie-ness by introducing her to sports watching with me and boxing, not watching boxing, actually putting on gloves and swinging at me.  Anyways, the child will decide for themselves who they are and the parent is to love them and teach them to be safe.  It drives me crazy watching people push their own agendas and taste on children that just doesn't want to spend two hours brushing really long hair.

Signed
-someone who read the article.

/my daughter like pink camouflage

Uh... She DID buy them. Aparrently you didn't read too closely.


Well, I read half and got bored.  So.
 
2014-02-02 09:26:26 AM  

Zasteva: Just for everyone's amusement, why don't you give us some examples of places were you think women have advantages over men.


Moving up the career ladder at a government job.  One of the thing government managers are evaluated on for their performance reviews is EEO.  If a woman/minority working for you gets promoted, you get an "exceeds expectations" and a good chance at a nice little bonus.

I'm not opposed to EEO in general, but in the specific it's annoying when you see less qualified people pass you by.  (I had no problem when the brighter ones passed me) I can't say I liked paying for the sins of the prior generation.  Level the playing field, sure, but let's not tilt it in the other direction.
 
2014-02-02 09:26:48 AM  

pxlboy: Zasteva: Just for everyone's amusement, why don't you give us some examples of places were you think women have advantages over men.

pxlboy: Getting out of traffic violations?


Cannonball Run for the win!
 
2014-02-02 09:26:51 AM  
To be fair, 'princess culture' is going pretty far in the US, in places. Not as far as in some places in South America and South-east Asia, but pretty far nonetheless.
 
2014-02-02 09:27:02 AM  

Four Horsemen of the Domestic Dispute: God Is My Co-Pirate: 1. They're just shoes.
2. You don't have to buy them.

Signed,
- a feminist

3. Pink is just a color
4. LPGA or Tennis may help your cause


Until she sees Paula Creamer.
 
2014-02-02 09:29:04 AM  

Zasteva: pxlboy: Zasteva: Just for everyone's amusement, why don't you give us some examples of places were you think women have advantages over men.

pxlboy: Getting out of traffic violations?

Cannonball Run for the win!


That was actually pretty damn funny. I would love to be the proverbial fly on the wall for that.
 
2014-02-02 09:29:25 AM  

bbfreak: True feminism is something that benefits both men and women, and even transgender people. Unfortunately so many people, women and men included misunderstand what feminism is. You are one of them


So according to this woman, Feminism is the ability for her little girl to choose her own path, unless that path conflicts with mommy dearest's world view?  Oh, and also those same rules would apply to her son.

I see nothing wrong with this at all.
 
2014-02-02 09:29:25 AM  

Nabb1: Two points: At least she has the awareness to self reflect on her feelings and opinions; and she nought her daughter those shoes. She's still a fairly judgmental person. My wife, a successful physician, mother and big fan of Disney Princesses would probably tell her to lighten up. You can let your daughters be themselves and still instill confidence in them.


I really feel like anyone complaining about Disney Princess Syndrome hasn't really watched anything Disney has put out in 20 years. I mean yeah, I get it, the original Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, etc are pretty bad in retrospect. But between Sophia, Doc McStuffins, Tinkerbell, and Izzy from Jake and the Neverland Pirates, Disney essentially has a whole channel now that is trying to teach toddler girls how to solve problems, be confident in themselves, etc. Even recent direct to DVD stuff involving older properties like Cinderella or Ariel have the princesses kicking ass and taking names.
 
2014-02-02 09:30:16 AM  

goatan: Feminism is about Women deciding things for themselves. If your trying to stop your daughter from deciding what colour clothes she wants to wear then that is the exact opposite of feminism. This is now the state of affairs for most self described feminists. What they really want to do is tell other women how to behave feminism is pretty much dead and it's control freaks posing as "feminists" that are killing it.


Beat me by minutes, but what you said too.
 
2014-02-02 09:30:27 AM  
Feminists fought to open up possibilities for women and to create a culture where they have choices, something she is apparently against when it comes to her daughter.
 
2014-02-02 09:30:46 AM  

onyxruby: ghare: Thanks for mansplaining that.

Mansplaining is an offensive word, used to degrade anyone that doesn't agree with feminism or questions how it actually deals with equality. It is however quite useful for letting the world know that the person using it is radical with no interest in equality.


You do realize this is Fark you are posting on, don't you?
 
2014-02-02 09:31:29 AM  

ghare: Ah, little boys and their problems.


I'm sure you had the same dismissive attitude about how women were traditionally treated. If you had any interest at all in equality you would reflect on what you wrote and realize that being an ass about things shows your prejudice, inflames sexist attitudes and makes feminism look bad. Really what it does though is show that you have no interest in equality.
 
2014-02-02 09:32:54 AM  

Zasteva: Warlordtrooper: ghare: Warlordtrooper: BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.

Feminism might be about a lot of things but true equality is not one of them

Thanks for mansplaining that.

How many feminists do you know that will argue for equality of men in cases where females have an advantage over males?

About half of the women I know who consider themselves feminist would, when confronted with those extremely rare circumstances.

Just for everyone's amusement, why don't you give us some examples of places were you think women have advantages over men.


Family court, child custody, Obamacare (all that free stuff attached for women's health issues)etc.
Look at child support. In many states DNA evidence can prove a man is not the father of the child  but he  still can get stuck with child support.  When was the last time a woman got stuck paying child support for a child that was not hers?

Feminism like other similar movements is not so much about equal treatment under the law  but special treatment.

Look at the whole birth control abortion debate.  for the Feminist the battle cry is my body my business and men should not be making laws about women's bodies.  But when it comes to paying for the consequences of what they do with their bodies  they sure don't object to the concept of male tax payers having to pay for them (Federally funded abortions)

 Here is a hint for you  girls if you use other people's money they are going to want some say so in how it is spent even if it used on your body.  If you are using your own money to engage in your own little form of eugenics feel free to tell them to STFU.

Of course should the woman decide to keep the child and not terminate it, she has all the power  in that decision/  Sure the guy choose to or not to exchange bodily fluids with a some slut but it takes to and since the woman is the one who gets pregnant (sorry girls but its science) One could argue she has a greater responsibility in the matter and since chicks want all the power/decision making authority when ti comes to keeping or killing the unborn child the can assume the financial responsibility to unless they are willing to share the authority.


I have notice that those who claim there is a war on women don't really claim about issues attacking equality but the free stuff and  special treatment issues (which they call women's issues) Maternity leave , child care etc..

Look at eh Violence Against Women Act. Not the Violence against domestic partners, shack ups or violence against  people or men act  but Women.

 Special funding for extra prosecution effort and enhanced penlites for violence against the alleged equal gender of female.

It is not about wanting equal treatment but want special treatment and free stuff.
 
2014-02-02 09:34:32 AM  

jayhawk88: Nabb1: Two points: At least she has the awareness to self reflect on her feelings and opinions; and she nought her daughter those shoes. She's still a fairly judgmental person. My wife, a successful physician, mother and big fan of Disney Princesses would probably tell her to lighten up. You can let your daughters be themselves and still instill confidence in them.

I really feel like anyone complaining about Disney Princess Syndrome hasn't really watched anything Disney has put out in 20 years. I mean yeah, I get it, the original Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, etc are pretty bad in retrospect. But between Sophia, Doc McStuffins, Tinkerbell, and Izzy from Jake and the Neverland Pirates, Disney essentially has a whole channel now that is trying to teach toddler girls how to solve problems, be confident in themselves, etc. Even recent direct to DVD stuff involving older properties like Cinderella or Ariel have the princesses kicking ass and taking names.


Rapunzel in "Tangled" is a string willed character, too. And "Frozen" really departed from the typical Disney princess archetype. On "Mickey Mouse Clubhouse," Minnie runs her own business. There are a lot of positive messages for little girls these days in Disney things.
 
2014-02-02 09:35:13 AM  

Yogimus: I refer to feminists as cows not just for their general appearance, but for the herd instinct.


No, you refer to feminists as cows because you want to dehumanize them. It's nothing special. It's common for haters to dehumanize the subjects of their hatred.
 
2014-02-02 09:36:51 AM  

hasty ambush: Family court, child custody, Obamacare (all that free stuff attached for women's health issues)etc.
Look at child support. In many states DNA evidence can prove a man is not the father of the child  but he  still can get stuck with child support.  When was the last time a woman got stuck paying child support for a child that was not hers?


In every one of those cases, the men who were ordered to pay child support had their names willingly placed on the birth certificate as the legal father of that child. You seem to leave that fact out.

hasty ambush: Look at the whole birth control abortion debate.  for the Feminist the battle cry is my body my business and men should not be making laws about women's bodies.  But when it comes to paying for the consequences of what they do with their bodies  they sure don't object to the concept of male tax payers having to pay for them (Federally funded abortions)

 Here is a hint for you  girls if you use other people's money they are going to want some say so in how it is spent even if it used on your body.  If you are using your own money to engage in your own little form of eugenics feel free to tell them to STFU.


That's an incredibly long winded and idiotic way to tell us you have no clue what you're talking about, since the various Hyde amendments prohibit the federal funding of abortion outside of a court order or medical necessity.

hasty ambush: Look at eh Violence Against Women Act. Not the Violence against domestic partners, shack ups or violence against  people or men act  but Women.

 Special funding for extra prosecution effort and enhanced penlites for violence against the alleged equal gender of female.

It is not about wanting equal treatment but want special treatment and free stuff.


Okay, you can solve this easily.

Give me objective numbers on how many men versus how many women are abused each year in the United States. How many end up in the ER or in hospital because of that abuse? How many end up murdered or forced into prostitution?

I'll wait.
 
2014-02-02 09:37:25 AM  
Headline: Mother nearly falls into a fit of apoplexy and is forced to confront her irrational fear of the color pink when her daughter asks for a pink pair or "sparkly princess tennis shoes." Because FEMINISM

Actual Article: Mother feels irrationally uncomfortable about pink shoes but then thinks about it and realizes she's being ridiculous.  Writes an article urging parents to love their children for who they are, rather than trying to shield them from everything they don't like in the world
 
2014-02-02 09:37:25 AM  

hasty ambush: Look at the whole birth control abortion debate.  for the Feminist the battle cry is my body my business and men should not be making laws about women's bodies.  But when it comes to paying for the consequences of what they do with their bodies  they sure don't object to the concept of male tax payers having to pay for them (Federally funded abortions)


I'm fine with women getting abortions.  If you want the child and the father doesn't though, he should be able to sign off on parental/financial responsibility.  I have both had a girlfriend have an abortion against my wishes and have been sued (falsely) for paternity.  I can assure you that men have absolutely no say whatsoever in family matters and the courts and healthcare professions treat us like second class citizens.
 
2014-02-02 09:39:33 AM  

ghare: Men who have never had a woman show any interest in them are frequently angry little failures.


Wow, your up to third grade insults! Hate to brake it to you but I've had my share of women in my life, women as friends for decades and rely on women for professionals needs. I'm not the least bit misogynistic, even though I'm opposed to radical feminism. I'm about the most mellow person you'll meet in real life. Continue on with your fantasies though.
 
2014-02-02 09:40:04 AM  

edmo: Feminists fought to open up possibilities for women and to create a culture where they have choices, something she is apparently against when it comes to her daughter.


Read the whole article.
 
2014-02-02 09:41:34 AM  

AngryDragon: If you want the child and the father doesn't though, he should be able to sign off on parental/financial responsibility.  I have both had a girlfriend have an abortion against my wishes and have been sued (falsely) for paternity.  I can assure you that men have absolutely no say whatsoever in family matters and the courts and healthcare professions treat us like second class citizens.


And in reality, it doesn't work like that because our society got tired of leaving broke, uneducated, and multiple-child women thanks to men spreading their seed like little Johnny Apples across the United States, and having to pick up the tab.

And the wonderful thing about that is that you're actually arguing you should be able to violate the constitutional rights and basic human rights of a woman by forcing her to carry to term a fetus, but you say you're not treated fairly by the healthcare and legal establishment.

Hang on. I'm drinking in the irony of this.
 
2014-02-02 09:43:05 AM  
hasty ambush: Zasteva:  Just for everyone's amusement, why don't you give us some examples of places were you think women have advantages over men.

hasty ambush: Family court, child custody, Obamacare (all that free stuff attached for women's health issues)etc.
Look at child support. In many states DNA evidence can prove a man is not the father of the child  but he  still can get stuck with child support.  When was the last time a woman got stuck paying child support for a child that was not hers?

Feminism like other similar movements is not so much about equal treatment under the law  but special treatment.

Look at the whole birth control abortion debate.  for the Feminist the battle cry is my body my business and men should not be making laws about women's bodies.  But when it comes to paying for the consequences of what they do with their bodies  they sure don't object to the concept of male tax payers having to pay for them (Federally funded abortions)

 Here is a hint for you  girls if you use other people's money they are going to want some say so in how it is spent even if it used on your body.  If you are using your own money to engage in your own little form of eugenics feel free to tell them to STFU.

Of course should the woman decide to keep the child and not terminate it, she has all the power  in that decision/  Sure the guy choose to or not to exchange bodily fluids with a some slut but it takes to and since the woman is the one who gets pregnant (sorry girls but its science) One could argue she has a greater responsibility in the matter and since chicks want all the power/decision making authority when ti comes to keeping or killing the unborn child the can assume the financial responsibility to unless they are willing to share the authority.

I have notice that those who claim there is a war on women don't really claim about issues attacking equality but the free stuff and  special treatment issues (which they call women's issues) Maternity leave , child care etc..

Look at eh Violen ...


Yep, that was indeed amusing!
 
2014-02-02 09:43:49 AM  

onyxruby: I'm not the least bit misogynistic, even though I'm opposed to radical feminism. I'm about the most mellow person you'll meet in real life.


You have no idea what radical feminism is if you think TFA is it.
 
2014-02-02 09:44:48 AM  

hardinparamedic: onyxruby: I'm not the least bit misogynistic, even though I'm opposed to radical feminism. I'm about the most mellow person you'll meet in real life.

You have no idea what radical feminism is if you think TFA is it.


Ow, my brain.
 
2014-02-02 09:46:23 AM  

hardinparamedic: Now that. That is riled up. Wow!


How is that riled up? Someone uses an offensive terms and I politely explain why it's offensive. I read several of your posts and I must say your the one that appears to be riled up. How about a civil discussion without personal attacks?
 
2014-02-02 09:49:03 AM  

hardinparamedic: onyxruby: I'm not the least bit misogynistic, even though I'm opposed to radical feminism. I'm about the most mellow person you'll meet in real life.

You have no idea what radical feminism is if you think TFA is it.


Wow.

That chick needs to get laid. Badly.
 
2014-02-02 09:49:07 AM  

Zasteva: You do realize this is Fark you are posting on, don't you?


I do, once upon a time the radicals were quickly shut down for being asshats and civil discussions about things were much more common. It's too bad that Fark doesn't go back to the no asshat days.
 
2014-02-02 09:49:29 AM  
Why is it that when black people ask for equal rights, they are fighting for racial equality, and when gay people ask for equal rights, they are asking for sexual equality, but when women ask for equal rights, they decided to label themselves "Feminists"?

Why is it that, what I would consider to be called "being a decent human being", ie "treating women equally", has to be labelled as "feminism" by women?  It makes it sound like if a woman wants to fight for equality, she's on THEIR side.  Like she HAS to take sides.

Ladies, please stop using the feminism label.  The very wording of it makes it sound like it puts women above every other race and gender and identity.
 
2014-02-02 09:49:38 AM  

onyxruby: How is that riled up? Someone uses an offensive terms and I politely explain why it's offensive. I read several of your posts and I must say your the one that appears to be riled up. How about a civil discussion without personal attacks?


Yep. Jimmies rustled. I'm totes furious. So like, mission accomplished /b/ro.^_^

If you want a civil discussion without "personal attacks", I, personally, wouldn't try to start one by expressing your righteous indignation that someone would use sarcasm and mocking towards a dismissive post towards someone who is just as fundamentalist on this site as the straw-men you have accused others of being, and then act with disbelief that someone would call your post, for lack of a better word, stupid.

But no. Please present your civil argument about Feminism and Equality. I'm all ears.
 
2014-02-02 09:50:22 AM  
^from someone, not towards someone.
 
2014-02-02 09:51:38 AM  

RockofAges: Brittabot: I'm pregnant with my 2nd child at the moment, first daughter, and I've been thinking a lot about the whole princess thing.

I farking HATE "princess culture", always have, even when I was a kid, and I absolutely will not encourage it with my little girl when she is very young. However, once she reaches an age where she's more influenced by her peers, if she wants to watch princess movies and play with princess things I won't forbid it and won't make her feel bad for liking these things (while still encouraging her to have other interests, of course).

I'll probably try to steer her more towards the more competent princesses though. Like Princess Bubblegum from Adventure Time. She smart, gets shiat done and doesn't take crap from anyone. If more princesses were written like her I'd have a lot fewer issues with the whole genre.

And man, pink is almost impossible to avoid! I'm aiming for a less than 25% concentration for her wardrobe at the moment but I'm not sure how I'll fare.

Yes. Actively steering your child away from normative behaviour is just so chic! It's the progressive thing to do nowadays. Bonus points for Adventure Time reference. The show is okay but fans (cultists) would drink the kool aid if someone told them it would take them to the land of Finn and Jake.

I have to say, this type of "modern" parenting is pretty hilarious. Just let the damn kids be themselves, discover their own personalities (unless shiat goes really "weird"). Making this enormous "cultural shaping and steerage" thing over colours, princesses, and girls liking girl toys is farking ludicrous.

I am so glad we didn't have this shiat going on to this degree in the 80s. Prince Adam was progressive enough for us.


Hey man, all I'm really saying is that I'm not going to INTRODUCE princess shiat to my daughter because I can't stand it. If she learns about it on her own eventually (which I'm sure she will) and is interested I'm certainly not going to stop her from watching princess stuff (and if I were the mom in TFA I would buy the pink sparkly princess shoes if that's what my kid really wanted). I do the same with my son, there are things I don't particularly like/get that I would never introduce him to on my own (like those freaking bey blades), but if he hears about it from his friends at school and wants to play with them it's fine with me. *shrugs*
 
2014-02-02 09:51:39 AM  

No Such Agency: As the father of a two year old girl who I hope will grow up to be whatever she wants to be... it's almost impossible to avoid/resist the Pink.  It's everywhere, and unless you sew your own or make your girl dress in boys' clothes (options: military themed, construction themed, or Cars) you will have to give in at some point.


You forgot dinosaurs, skateboards, and dinosaurs riding skateboards.

Little kids' clothing seems to have gotten awfully boring. Girls' too.
 
2014-02-02 09:51:51 AM  

hardinparamedic: And in reality, it doesn't work like that because our society got tired of leaving broke, uneducated, and multiple-child women thanks to men spreading their seed like little Johnny Apples across the United States, and having to pick up the tab


Yes.  The ready access to abortion and removal of any choice from the fathers has completely eliminated the scourge of single parent homes especially in the urban environments.   That's why the number of single parent homes has doubled since 1970.  Reality doesn't agree with your skewed perspective..

But it's the men's fault for spreading their seed and not the women's fault for spreading their legs?  If a woman has the right to choose, she should also have the responsibility of living with her choice 100%, especially if the other partner is unwilling.  Choice should go both ways.  Not "I have the right to choose, but I'm not doing this by myself!"
 
2014-02-02 09:55:29 AM  

hardinparamedic: You have no idea what radical feminism is if you think TFA is it.


Wow, you are desperate this morning. I was raised by feminists, two of them. The organize the march and protest in the streets kind. My parents had me study feminism from when I was young. You could say it's something I've studied my entire life.

At no point did I ever say or infer anything about the article. There are fundamentally 2 schools of feminism. The first school is simply interested in equality between the sexes and wants to ensure this happens. The second school is interested in getting women as many as many special privileges over men as possible. I have no problem with the first school and with equality between the sexes. Which school are you in?
 
2014-02-02 09:55:37 AM  
"Men will soon become the most disadvantaged group in the country when it comes to going to university, the head of UCAS predicts today." - http://ind.pn/1ecLUo6

Simply put, if women want equality they need to embrace a new platform of equality that is inclusive of men (which feminism isn't) or accept the existence of the MRA movement.

The amount of hate and vitriol that the MRA movement gets from feminists is quite simply disgusting. And the movement exists because men are being disadvantaged in a lot of areas that now matter more to them. When a dad, who is denied access to see his children, is ridiculed and attacked for trying to fix the inherent problems in the system it's obvious that despite feminism's claims to be for 'equality' it's blatantly not.

If you are a feminist and you dislike the MRA movement, realise it's a response to the fundamentally sexist nature of your own movement. If feminism was about equality the MRA movement wouldn't be a thing.
 
2014-02-02 09:56:15 AM  

AngryDragon: Yes.  The ready access to abortion and removal of any choice from the fathers has completely eliminated the scourge of single parent homes especially in the urban environments.  That's why the number of single parent homes has doubled since 1970.  Reality doesn't agree with your skewed perspective..


Mm. I was referring more to child support and parental responsibility laws there, but you go right ahead and misrepresent what I say. It's usually par for the course for these conversations.

And the man does have a choice.

upload.wikimedia.org

Hell. If you're too cheap, you can get them from your local health department for free.

And if you're going to lecture on responsibility, at least see the irony in the fact you're arguing that you should be able to get someone pregnant whenever you want and not take your own responsibility for that.

AngryDragon: But it's the men's fault for spreading their seed and not the women's fault for spreading their legs?  If a woman has the right to choose, she should also have the responsibility of living with her choice 100%, especially if the other partner is unwilling.


Really dude? Your argument boils down to the fact that as a man, you are so enthralled and weakened by vagina that you can't control your basic human instincts to bang the woman at the first chance?

Christ. I can't imagine what it would be like to live with the mentality that getting my dick wet was more important than common sense.
 
2014-02-02 09:58:47 AM  

pxlboy: hardinparamedic: onyxruby: I'm not the least bit misogynistic, even though I'm opposed to radical feminism. I'm about the most mellow person you'll meet in real life.

You have no idea what radical feminism is if you think TFA is it.

Ow, my brain.


Some girls just want to play the part of "the princess"  in the same way some want to play "the victim".

I raised two girls- "playing princess " seemed to all part of a development stage they go through.  "P.P." was not about just wearing sequined Disney clothing, but also meant wearing skirts and dresses only- as only boys wear pants-- and doing really girlie things like playing house or with make-up.  Enjoy the phase as it only lasts a few years- then it's tight jeans, sports gear, and t-shirts.  At 16 and 18, we're finally starting to see a renaissance in which they will wear skirts for formal occasions or job hunting.
 
2014-02-02 09:59:30 AM  

meep3d: If you are a feminist and you dislike the MRA movement, realise it's a response to the fundamentally sexist nature of your own movement. If feminism was about equality the MRA movement wouldn't be a thing.


You should seek out employment in a dictatorship somewhere. That kind of propaganda writing doesn't come easily. Herr Goebbels would be proud.

onyxruby: Wow, you are desperate this morning. I was raised by feminists, two of them. The organize the march and protest in the streets kind. My parents had me study feminism from when I was young. You could say it's something I've studied my entire life.


So either you're full of shiat, or you read at or below a fourth grade level. Which is it? Because it's either ONE or the other with the way you've been ranting in this thread.
 
2014-02-02 10:00:03 AM  

ghare: hardinparamedic: onyxruby: ghare: Thanks for mansplaining that.

Mansplaining is an offensive word, used to degrade anyone that doesn't agree with feminism or questions how it actually deals with equality. It is however quite useful for letting the world know that the person using it is radical with no interest in equality.

Now that. That is riled up. Wow!

Men who have never had a woman show any interest in them are frequently angry little failures.


So women just like successful men?
 
2014-02-02 10:00:12 AM  

hardinparamedic: AngryDragon: Yes.  The ready access to abortion and removal of any choice from the fathers has completely eliminated the scourge of single parent homes especially in the urban environments.   That's why the number of single parent homes has doubled since 1970.  Reality doesn't agree with your skewed perspective..

Mm. I was referring more to child support and parental responsibility laws there, but you go right ahead and misrepresent what I say. It's usually par for the course for these conversations.

And the man does have a choice.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 623x623]

Hell. If you're too cheap, you can get them from your local health department for free.

And if you're going to lecture on responsibility, at least see the irony in the fact you're arguing that you should be able to get someone pregnant whenever you want and not take your own responsibility for that.

AngryDragon: But it's the men's fault for spreading their seed and not the women's fault for spreading their legs?  If a woman has the right to choose, she should also have the responsibility of living with her choice 100%, especially if the other partner is unwilling.

Really dude? Your argument boils down to the fact that as a man, you are so enthralled and weakened by vagina that you can't control your basic human instincts to bang the woman at the first chance?

Christ. I can't imagine what it would be like to live with the mentality that getting my dick wet was more important than common sense.


Notice that were designed for "her pleasure" instead of his?  WTF! Don't we get anything out of this?
 
2014-02-02 10:00:46 AM  

clowncar on fire: Notice that were designed for "her pleasure" instead of his?  WTF! Don't we get anything out of this?


The troll in me took over on that one. -grin-
 
2014-02-02 10:00:51 AM  

onyxruby: Zasteva: You do realize this is Fark you are posting on, don't you?

I do, once upon a time the radicals were quickly shut down for being asshats and civil discussions about things were much more common. It's too bad that Fark doesn't go back to the no asshat days.


I'm happy to have a civil discussion with you about this.

I enjoyed the article because it shows just the kind of trap someone who thinks of themselves as open-minded can get into, and how important it is to review our own actions and attitudes in the light of what we claim to believe. Often, we find our actions and attitudes are not congruent with our beliefs, and we need to either strive to be better people, or recognize that our beliefs have changed.

What did you think of the article?
 
2014-02-02 10:04:34 AM  

hardinparamedic: meep3d: If you are a feminist and you dislike the MRA movement, realise it's a response to the fundamentally sexist nature of your own movement. If feminism was about equality the MRA movement wouldn't be a thing.

You should seek out employment in a dictatorship somewhere. That kind of propaganda writing doesn't come easily. Herr Goebbels would be proud.


I don't get it.

Men are discriminated against when it comes to their children and the law, and now it's becoming apparent they are falling behind in education. Who is fighting on their behalf? It's not the feminists.

You are perfect example of what I am talking about. All I said was that men are discriminated against in certain areas (with proof) and that if feminism will not attempt to redress the balance then a male movement is bound to emerge.  And then you go and compare me to the Nazi's.

What do you suggest be done about family courts and education? And if men cannot address the issue can you tell me when you feminists will step up to the plate?
 
2014-02-02 10:05:59 AM  

pxlboy: hardinparamedic: onyxruby: I'm not the least bit misogynistic, even though I'm opposed to radical feminism. I'm about the most mellow person you'll meet in real life.

You have no idea what radical feminism is if you think TFA is it.

Ow, my brain.


Seriously. What the hell?

I read like 4 posts on that blog and I shall never forgive you for that. It's things like this that shake my faith in the essential goodness of people and makes me realize that mental illness is far more prevalent than I like to admit.
 
2014-02-02 10:07:00 AM  
Look at eh Violence Against Women Act. Not the Violence against domestic partners, shack ups or violence against people or men act but Women.

Special funding for extra prosecution effort and enhanced penlites for violence against the alleged equal gender of female.

Are you trolling or so you not know that the VAWA protects- specifically- against all genders? In fact, the prologue talks about how men are also victims of sexual abuse, stalking and domestic abuse. There is an entire section of VAWA designed to end prison rape.

Or, maybe your trolling. Can't tell.
 
2014-02-02 10:07:17 AM  

hardinparamedic: meep3d: If you are a feminist and you dislike the MRA movement, realise it's a response to the fundamentally sexist nature of your own movement. If feminism was about equality the MRA movement wouldn't be a thing.

You should seek out employment in a dictatorship somewhere. That kind of propaganda writing doesn't come easily. Herr Goebbels would be proud.


Wow, you managed to bring nazi's into a discussion about shoes! You completely ignored the point about equality and why there is a MRA movement. I realize something, you never actually address anything anyone says that disagrees with your worldview. All you do is commit personal attacks.

onyxruby: Wow, you are desperate this morning. I was raised by feminists, two of them. The organize the march and protest in the streets kind. My parents had me study feminism from when I was young. You could say it's something I've studied my entire life.

So either you're full of shiat, or you read at or below a fourth grade level. Which is it? Because it's either ONE or the other with the way you've been ranting in this thread.


I haven't had any rants, your seeing things that weren't written. It's impossible to have a discussion with a radical, and you certainly can't debate anything with someone who's responses consist of pure derp.
 
2014-02-02 10:07:21 AM  
feminist  :one who is not happy until their daughters are lesbians.
 
2014-02-02 10:07:51 AM  

hardinparamedic: AngryDragon: Yes.  The ready access to abortion and removal of any choice from the fathers has completely eliminated the scourge of single parent homes especially in the urban environments.   That's why the number of single parent homes has doubled since 1970.  Reality doesn't agree with your skewed perspective..

Mm. I was referring more to child support and parental responsibility laws there, but you go right ahead and misrepresent what I say. It's usually par for the course for these conversations.

And the man does have a choice.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 623x623]

Hell. If you're too cheap, you can get them from your local health department for free.

And if you're going to lecture on responsibility, at least see the irony in the fact you're arguing that you should be able to get someone pregnant whenever you want and not take your own responsibility for that.

AngryDragon: But it's the men's fault for spreading their seed and not the women's fault for spreading their legs?  If a woman has the right to choose, she should also have the responsibility of living with her choice 100%, especially if the other partner is unwilling.

Really dude? Your argument boils down to the fact that as a man, you are so enthralled and weakened by vagina that you can't control your basic human instincts to bang the woman at the first chance?

Christ. I can't imagine what it would be like to live with the mentality that getting my dick wet was more important than common sense.


Which is exactly what I'm talking about.

In my first case, I was being responsible.  I was engaged to my girlfriend and planning on getting married, looking forward to our first child.  Which she terminated without any discussion or warning.

In the second case, I was being responsible.  Used a condom and everything.  When she showed up a year later for child support, I had my doubts, but agreed to do the right thing.  I spoke to social services who had no problem ordering an immediate garnishment of my wages since I had been declared the father, but took their sweet time getting the paternity test done.  Of course I wasn't the father.  Funny thing is, she knew it.  She was going from guy to guy that she had slept with at that time, unknown to me, and naming them at random.  That way she could get her government benefits.  The attorney basically told me that recovering any of the money that the state basically stole from me was hopeless.

I lived with the consequences of my actions.  It must be nice to not have to and have it supported with the force of law.
 
2014-02-02 10:12:33 AM  

meep3d: Men are discriminated against when it comes to their children and the law, and now it's becoming apparent they are falling behind in education. Who is fighting on their behalf? It's not the feminists.


Yeah, it's not the Orwellian named "Men's Rights Advocates" either.

Here's the thing. MRAs don't care about my rights as a man. They care about their reactionary knee-jerk to the death of traditional society. Like creationist wedge theory, your ilk uses legitimate issues with the legal system and men in family law to weasel in and justify their own beliefs on how women "should be treated".

If you people only cared about the "rights of men", you wouldn't be organizing campaigns of death threats and rape intimidation threats against people who speak about feminist topics that have nothing to do with family law. You wouldn't be white knighting rapists and child/spousal abusers. You wouldn't be filling forums of pathetic whine about how "WOMEN WONT LOOK AT ME WAAH" and trying to justify why it's the "slut"s fault you have to pay child support, but not your fault for not using protection and common sense to begin with.

meep3d: And then you go and compare me to the Nazi's.


No. I compared you to a man who made his livelihood on telling open, bald faced lies. Man up, cupcake, and grow a skin. If you're going to openly lie on a level that is propagandish in nature, expect to be called out on it.

meep3d: Who is fighting on their behalf? It's not the feminists.


As a "victim" of the biased court system - a false rape allegation made by a girlfriend when I was 18 - please do me a favor and don't do me any favors.
 
2014-02-02 10:16:02 AM  

AngryDragon: In my first case, I was being responsible.  I was engaged to my girlfriend and planning on getting married, looking forward to our first child.  Which she terminated without any discussion or warning.


So you weren't married. And she just "up and left you" and "terminated without warning"?

Please, tell us the WHOLE story. I have a feeling you're leaving something out to make yourself as the victim here.

AngryDragon: In the second case, I was being responsible.  Used a condom and everything.  When she showed up a year later for child support, I had my doubts, but agreed to do the right thing.  I spoke to social services who had no problem ordering an immediate garnishment of my wages since I had been declared the father, but took their sweet time getting the paternity test done.  Of course I wasn't the father.  Funny thing is, she knew it.  She was going from guy to guy that she had slept with at that time, unknown to me, and naming them at random.  That way she could get her government benefits.  The attorney basically told me that recovering any of the money that the state basically stole from me was hopeless.


So your issue with the state - which is a legitimate issue - justifies treating women like shiat, calling rape victims liars universally, harassing and even threatening to rape, murder, and torture people who disagree with them, and blocking healthcare and legal services to abused and raped women?
 
2014-02-02 10:19:28 AM  

AngryDragon: In the second case, I was being responsible. Used a condom and everything. When she showed up a year later for child support, I had my doubts, but agreed to do the right thing. I spoke to social services who had no problem ordering an immediate garnishment of my wages since I had been declared the father, but took their sweet time getting the paternity test done. Of course I wasn't the father. Funny thing is, she knew it. She was going from guy to guy that she had slept with at that time, unknown to me, and naming them at random. That way she could get her government benefits. The attorney basically told me that recovering any of the money that the state basically stole from me was hopeless.


I had a similar thing happen to me, but thankfully I demanded a paternity test before anything went that far. I found out after the fact that the only reason why she engaged in a relationship with me was because I was well off. Basically she targeted me because of my wallet.

This made me feel really bad, I think it's hard for women to really understand that even though it seems like men may hold all the cards in society, we have feelings and do actually want to be loved and valued for something more than just how much money we have, or our social status, or how powerful society perceives us to be.

So, anyway, no lasting harm done to me I suppose, but I do agree that family law is basically sexist. It seems to exist solely on the somewhat out-dated premise that a mans responsibility to a family is to provide income. Certainly, that's how this woman viewed it.

And while I might advocate for more egalitarian ways to solve some of these complex social issues (child support, education, etc) - I have to say that I don't agree with any of the "movements". In principle I favour equality for all, but not by inflicting an injustice on another. I know many people think this is impractical, and perhaps it is - but I would say that ideals are often impractical, but so long as we let them guide our conscience we are charting the right course.
 
2014-02-02 10:21:04 AM  
img.fark.net
Princess bubblegum kicks butt
 
2014-02-02 10:21:47 AM  

hardinparamedic: meep3d: Men are discriminated against when it comes to their children and the law, and now it's becoming apparent they are falling behind in education. Who is fighting on their behalf? It's not the feminists.

Yeah, it's not the Orwellian named "Men's Rights Advocates" either.

Here's the thing. MRAs don't care about my rights as a man. They care about their reactionary knee-jerk to the death of traditional society. Like creationist wedge theory, your ilk uses legitimate issues with the legal system and men in family law to weasel in and justify their own beliefs on how women "should be treated".

If you people only cared about the "rights of men", you wouldn't be organizing campaigns of death threats and rape intimidation threats against people who speak about feminist topics that have nothing to do with family law. You wouldn't be white knighting rapists and child/spousal abusers. You wouldn't be filling forums of pathetic whine about how "WOMEN WONT LOOK AT ME WAAH" and trying to justify why it's the "slut"s fault you have to pay child support, but not your fault for not using protection and common sense to begin with.

meep3d: And then you go and compare me to the Nazi's.

No. I compared you to a man who made his livelihood on telling open, bald faced lies. Man up, cupcake, and grow a skin. If you're going to openly lie on a level that is propagandish in nature, expect to be called out on it.


Is it absolutely vital that you be quite so rude all the time? I deliberately avoided your style of angry shouty rude word soup to try and get the debate on to points rather than just abuse. So much for that.

I simply said the MRA movement is a response to the inequality and lack of support for men's causes. Sure the movement is bound to have some morons but the fact it exists is because men are not represented by feminists.  So I'll repeat the question:

What do you suggest be done about family courts and education? Men cannot/should not form a group to address these issues and feminists won't. So what is the answer?
 
2014-02-02 10:26:33 AM  

meep3d: Is it absolutely vital that you be quite so rude all the time? I deliberately avoided your style of angry shouty rude word soup to try and get the debate on to points rather than just abuse. So much for that.


The "Men's Rights Movement" offends me as a man and a human being. That's why I'm abrasive towards people who tout their superior philosophy to the masses.

meep3d: What do you suggest be done about family courts and education? Men cannot/should not form a group to address these issues and feminists won't. So what is the answer?


Uh, no. Here's the thing, and I said this in my last reply to you, which you ignored because it wasn't nice enough. I'm not going to write out a comprehensive reform plan for you, nor am I going to play into this "something is better than nothing" philosophy where I have to excuse the behavior of the MRA movement because their interests might fall into a line of judicial reform I happen to agree with.
 
2014-02-02 10:27:32 AM  
The color pink has been scientifically proven to make people chill the fark out.

http://psychology.about.com/od/sensationandperception/a/color_pink.h tm

HINT HINT.
 
2014-02-02 10:31:24 AM  
meep3d and hardinparamedic, you're both actually making a good point (well at least one each, the rest I'm not so sure of).

The MRA movement is full of people who use the issue of "mens rights" as basically a front to express their dismay at the loss of white male privilege. I think it's perfectly sensible for hardinparamedic to call this out and say that they don't represent him, they certainly don't represent me. I'm sort of a nice healthy olive color anyway. Tan maybe.

Also, meep3d - you're right, people of all stripes/sizes/colors/genders have the right to come together to address issues or lobby for laws that they think are fair and just. I certainly have some issues with family court law and I don't think it's bad for organized groups to challenge them. I do think however that we would all be better served if the groups doing the challenging were a bit more respectable and based their advocacy on legal scholarship. After all, if we are going to challenge what is essentially a society gender norm regarding male responsibility in marriage/child rearing, then we have our work cut out for us in a way similar to how early feminists did when they had to challenge issues like discrimination in education and the workplace.

I don't actually find what you guys are saying as mutually exclusive. I think it's easier to agree that there is some need to advocate, or counter balance, the rights of men against the rights of women. It's a tricky balancing act to be sure, particularly when we are taking about challenging established cultural norms. However, I think it's perfectly fine to point out that the groups that are perhaps the most "public" about it, are often the most ill equipped to do anything either (I'll politely add "for various reasons", but my disdain for most of the MRA guys is not something of a closely guarded secret).
 
2014-02-02 10:31:41 AM  
Amazingly enough, this thread has turned into a Reddit fedora show.
 
2014-02-02 10:32:25 AM  

hardinparamedic: So you weren't married. And she just "up and left you" and "terminated without warning"?

Please, tell us the WHOLE story. I have a feeling you're leaving something out to make yourself as the victim here


Sure.  She freaked at being pregnant and went back to her druggie ex-boyfriend.  I didn't say anything about being a victim, I said it was unjust because I had no input.

hardinparamedic: So your issue with the state - which is a legitimate issue - justifies treating women like shiat, calling rape victims liars universally, harassing and even threatening to rape, murder, and torture people who disagree with them, and blocking healthcare and legal services to abused and raped women?


What psychotic world do you live in?  I gave you a valid example of someone using the system repeatedly and knowingly to defraud as many men as she could while being backed completely by governmental institutions.  Where the hell did you get that I said anything on your list was justified?  And my point was that DESPITE treating innocent men like criminals on nothing more than a woman's say so the problem of single family homes has just gotten WORSE.

So just so I have this right, even one woman being denied the right to choice is a tragedy, but any man being forced to experience a loss or being falsely accused if totally acceptable because of....equality?  That sum it up?
 
2014-02-02 10:33:15 AM  

hardinparamedic: Oh good, another strawman RadFem that everyone can use to claim represents the actual philosophy of Feminism and dismiss arguments about civil and wage inequality, impropriety in prosecution of rape and abuse cases, and other bullshiat.


Exactly. "No True Feminist" would do such a thing.
 
2014-02-02 10:33:18 AM  

hardinparamedic: AngryDragon: In my first case, I was being responsible.  I was engaged to my girlfriend and planning on getting married, looking forward to our first child.  Which she terminated without any discussion or warning.

So you weren't married. And she just "up and left you" and "terminated without warning"?

Please, tell us the WHOLE story. I have a feeling you're leaving something out to make yourself as the victim here.

AngryDragon: In the second case, I was being responsible.  Used a condom and everything.  When she showed up a year later for child support, I had my doubts, but agreed to do the right thing.  I spoke to social services who had no problem ordering an immediate garnishment of my wages since I had been declared the father, but took their sweet time getting the paternity test done.  Of course I wasn't the father.  Funny thing is, she knew it.  She was going from guy to guy that she had slept with at that time, unknown to me, and naming them at random.  That way she could get her government benefits.  The attorney basically told me that recovering any of the money that the state basically stole from me was hopeless.

So your issue with the state - which is a legitimate issue - justifies treating women like shiat, calling rape victims liars universally, harassing and even threatening to rape, murder, and torture people who disagree with them, and blocking healthcare and legal services to abused and raped women?


I agree with the first answer regarding the up and leaving part.

Also agree about having a legitimate issue with the state.  My brother (and family) has dedicated several years to being a foster parent, taking on some of the hardest cases (infant left in a trailer to burn alive and substance abuse parents).  When it comes to making decisions for what's best for the child's welfare, they always choose the most expedient rather than "what's right" path.  The poster did what he believed to be what's right, by claiming responsibility for which the state would make little effort to overturn this decision by investigating who the real parent was- all in the name of expediency.

I'm not sure how the poster suddenly becomes an advocate of the destruction of women's rights or blocking services to raped women.  Seems a little bit of projection was involved there.
 
2014-02-02 10:33:58 AM  

Warlordtrooper: BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.

Feminism might be about a lot of things but true equality is not one of them


hardinparamedic: pxlboy: I've seen posts like that on Tumblr written without a hint of irony.

Tumblr is a wretched hive of sum, villainy, PC ridiculousness, and ACTUAL RadFem.

Hell. Even I make fun of those people, and I'm pretty into feminism and social justice causes.

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: The only really serious scenario for men's rights activists I can think of involves allegations of sexual contact with children.

That's the thing. There is no serious scenario for MRA. They really don't care about men's rights as a whole - they legitimately refer to any male who does not share their views as "traitors to their gender", akin to the whole "Traitor to their race" thing that is so popular in white supremacy. They just latch on to certain issues of judicial and social reform, such as the area you just mentioned, or false rape allegations, or family court reform issues, and like a parasite or a creationist wedge theory use it to promote their idea that treating women sub-human and like a pig is justified because of X and Y.


Yeah but again you're kinda throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I'm an egalitarian I believe in gender equality for all. I don't believe in feminism in it's modern state because it puts women above men. also pushing a stereotype and political label I do not need.

As a woman who has had to endure a lot of crap from feminists teachers and professors growing up because my dad had the balls to stand up to my mentally ill mom and take care of me. But then later have no support later because of his gender. (circa 1980s) I support the good ones.

There are Men's Right's groups that are not related to that other crap that are lead by some pretty awesome people. But it's the other groups that make it harder for them to make a any headroom.

There has been research shown that most judges are gender bias when it comes to sentencing. Family courts and child support is always given the burden to the man. We have seen it on fark too where the worse mothers of the world get off with a slap on the wrist for the most heinous of crime sprees.

Feminism has become so radical that I don't even recognize it any more. Especially when I see things like "OMG RUBBER DUCKS PATRARCHY!" type stuff on tumblr.
 
2014-02-02 10:35:23 AM  

meep3d: angry shouty rude word soup


I'm going to steal that line.

I'm a big fan of reasoned debate, it's not fun when you make a single point and someone equates you as the spokesman for the entire movement.

I'm not a MRA fan in general, because like every other group out there (feminists included) there are too many radicals attempting to speak for everyone.  I only speak for myself, and that way I'm never asked to defend anything other than my own words and thoughts.
 
2014-02-02 10:37:54 AM  

meep3d: I simply said the MRA movement is a response to the inequality and lack of support for men's causes


I disagree with this.  As far as I can tell, it is a response to the mere existence of women's rights groups.  And it seems to be a cynical attempt to steer the conversation to "both sides are equally disadvantaged", which is very far from the truth.

Don't get me wrong, there are laws that are biased towards the rights of women (due to historical realities of our society that have only recently begun to change).  But there are far far more examples of laws and cultural attitudes that exist merely to put women "in their place".  Both should change.

And just because someone only fights for rights that effect them personally, doesn't mean they are bad people.  But you should really pick your allies carefully, and the general vibe that MRA groups put out is chauvinistic, sexist, authoritarian, and creepy.
 
GCD
2014-02-02 10:38:37 AM  
A little late to the party here, but I used to do MMA...have several actual cage fights under my belt...and I have a pair of pink sparring gloves.

They're actually my wife's, but I wore them for a bit to help break the leather in for her....but honestly, I wouldn't care if they were mine because it really adds to the hilarity factor.

You want to see people's confused reactions to watching a 6'1, 250 lbs. guy like me doing Muay Thai and MMA wearing pink gloves. They look, see the pink gloves, stop, stare, then watch me punch and kick the Thai pads...and you can just see their brain snap in confusion. "I want to laugh, but probably shouldn't."

I wish that I had video of the reactions that I get.
 
2014-02-02 10:38:58 AM  
It's funny that the article makes no reference to feminism at any point.  Amusing.  I am amused.  I has an amuse.
 
2014-02-02 10:39:17 AM  

baconbeard: Exactly. "No True Feminist" would do such a thing.


You're not as clever as you think. ^_^

AngryDragon: Sure.  She freaked at being pregnant and went back to her druggie ex-boyfriend.  I didn't say anything about being a victim, I said it was unjust because I had no input.


Tragic. I hate to say this in such a cold, callous way, but did you ever think that seeing someone that can help you deal with your anger and grief MIGHT be a little more healthy than trying to white knight a group of people who pride themselves on being as vile as they can to anyone with a vagina?

What she did was her decision. Torturing yourself and, byproxy, other people over it isn't any way to go through life.

AngryDragon: What psychotic world do you live in?  I gave you a valid example of someone using the system repeatedly and knowingly to defraud as many men as she could while being backed completely by governmental institutions.


Which is just as valid and rational an argument as trying to justify spending millions of dollars to drug test every welfare recipient to find that one in a million person who's using crack cocaine on the Government dole.

Because you can create an exception to the rule does not invalidate the general rule. You know this.

AngryDragon: Where the hell did you get that I said anything on your list was justified?


You're white knighting a group that does just that, rather than trying to champion judicial reforms, your ire is directed to the fact that someone doesn't support that group. In fact, I have already told you I AGREE with the need for reforms - and you're still attacking me for the fact I won't support MRAs.

AngryDragon:
So just so I have this right, even one woman being denied the right to choice is a tragedy, but any man being forced to experience a loss or being falsely accused if totally acceptable because of....equality?  That sum it up?

You do not have the right to affect the self-determination of others when it comes to their health and their continued life and liberty. THAT sums it up. You do not get to force women to be unwilling flesh incubators for your spawn. Sorry.
 
2014-02-02 10:39:54 AM  

lanabanabutt: Wow, that article was a really long winded way of explaining "author is from the San Francisco Bay Area.


fark you.
 
2014-02-02 10:41:59 AM  
meep3d: Men are discriminated against when it comes to their children and the law, and now it's becoming apparent they are falling behind in education. Who is fighting on their behalf? It's not the feminists.

I'm afraid I simply don't agree with the premise that men are discriminated against when it comes to children and the law.

I have female friends who had to fight tooth and nail to get even occasional visitation with their children because their husbands decided to make false claims about them being unfaithful. Even if it were true, it has nothing to do with their ability to raise their children. These were cases of the husbands striking back because they wives wanted a divorce, pure and simple, and the courts went along with it.

I have another friend who recently asked me if I could give her a place to stay for a few days since she needed to get away from her husband who was starting to become physically abusive. After talking to the attorney she had drawing up divorce papers she said actually she needed to look for some other place, because staying at a man's house could prejudice the case against her.

Another woman I know was ordered by the divorce judge to stay in the tiny Georgia town they lived in until her infant daughter was 18, to protect the visitation rights of the abusive husband she was divorcing.

In many cases a woman who is staying home raising the kids has no resources to mount a proper legal defense if the husband decides to involve attorneys.

On the topic of men falling behind in education, it appears to be primarily be men's choice to pursue other things than education (of course there are individual exceptions)

http://collegestats.org/articles/2013/05/why-men-are-falling-behind- in -higher-ed/

In particular, the question is why men don't see as much value in a college education as women do? I suspect that if you polled people about their attitudes toward college, you would find that more women see college as their main opportunity to make something better of themselves than men do. This is because men recognize, if only subconsciously, that they have a lot of things in their favor just because they are men; whereas women recognize that they have more adversity to overcome and they need the benefits of higher education to compete.

What do you suggest be done about family courts and education? And if men cannot address the issue can you tell me when you feminists will step up to the plate?


For family courts, I'm not sure there is a problem to solve. The courts vary widely in who they favor based on individual circumstances and the particular viewpoint of the judge. If you want to protect your rights, the best bet is to have an amenable divorce and keep the lawyers completely out of it.

For education, reducing the cost seems to be the best way to get more men to enroll in college.
 
2014-02-02 10:42:02 AM  
When my daughter wanted sparkly shoes, I had to confront my own fierce prejudice against princess culture

Stopped reading there...
 
2014-02-02 10:42:06 AM  

clowncar on fire: I'm not sure how the poster suddenly becomes an advocate of the destruction of women's rights or blocking services to raped women.  Seems a little bit of projection was involved there.


I would highly encourage you to read up on the MRA movement.

My problem is not with people who demand judicial reform and fair treatment of men in family court or rape cases. My issue is people who white knight the MRA movement for being involved in this, while ignoring the downright evil things the people they represent do in addition to this.
 
2014-02-02 10:44:16 AM  

Brittabot: I'm pregnant with my 2nd child at the moment, first daughter, and I've been thinking a lot about the whole princess thing.

I farking HATE "princess culture", always have, even when I was a kid, and I absolutely will not encourage it with my little girl when she is very young. However, once she reaches an age where she's more influenced by her peers, if she wants to watch princess movies and play with princess things I won't forbid it and won't make her feel bad for liking these things (while still encouraging her to have other interests, of course).

I'll probably try to steer her more towards the more competent princesses though. Like Princess Bubblegum from Adventure Time. She smart, gets shiat done and doesn't take crap from anyone. If more princesses were written like her I'd have a lot fewer issues with the whole genre.

And man, pink is almost impossible to avoid! I'm aiming for a less than 25% concentration for her wardrobe at the moment but I'm not sure how I'll fare.


Princess Bubblegum is the villain of that show. She cuts her own subjects apart for experimentation and creates an sphinx / abomination that tries to wipe out free will.
 
2014-02-02 10:44:35 AM  

AngryDragon: Sure.  She freaked at being pregnant and went back to her druggie ex-boyfriend.  I didn't say anything about being a victim, I said it was unjust because I had no input.


I came off as harsh when I replied to that comment above, but I mean that in all seriousness.

You can't save everyone, and what she did was not your fault. People do hurtful, stupid things even despite our best efforts otherwise. Seriously, I mean this with all care in the world, SERIOUSLY if this is the way you feel, please see someone on a professional level.
 
2014-02-02 10:46:11 AM  

Meatybrain: lanabanabutt: Wow, that article was a really long winded way of explaining "author is from the San Francisco Bay Area.

fark you.


More like "Author is a liberal arts educated stay at home mommy".

"Educational Consulting".  Puh-lease.
 
2014-02-02 10:47:45 AM  

TwistedFark: meep3d and hardinparamedic, you're both actually making a good point (well at least one each, the rest I'm not so sure of).

The MRA movement is full of people who use the issue of "mens rights" as basically a front to express their dismay at the loss of white male privilege. I think it's perfectly sensible for hardinparamedic to call this out and say that they don't represent him, they certainly don't represent me. I'm sort of a nice healthy olive color anyway. Tan maybe.

Also, meep3d - you're right, people of all stripes/sizes/colors/genders have the right to come together to address issues or lobby for laws that they think are fair and just. I certainly have some issues with family court law and I don't think it's bad for organized groups to challenge them. I do think however that we would all be better served if the groups doing the challenging were a bit more respectable and based their advocacy on legal scholarship. After all, if we are going to challenge what is essentially a society gender norm regarding male responsibility in marriage/child rearing, then we have our work cut out for us in a way similar to how early feminists did when they had to challenge issues like discrimination in education and the workplace.

I don't actually find what you guys are saying as mutually exclusive. I think it's easier to agree that there is some need to advocate, or counter balance, the rights of men against the rights of women. It's a tricky balancing act to be sure, particularly when we are taking about challenging established cultural norms. However, I think it's perfectly fine to point out that the groups that are perhaps the most "public" about it, are often the most ill equipped to do anything either (I'll politely add "for various reasons", but my disdain for most of the MRA guys is not something of a closely guarded secret).


This is very well said!

I hope your attempts to be a peacemaker succeed.
 
2014-02-02 10:48:49 AM  
She's just a kid. At that age, she wants to fit in. Don't confuse your politics with her running around the school playground.
 
2014-02-02 10:51:00 AM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: 1. They're just shoes.
2. You don't have to buy them.

Signed,
- a feminist


Upper middle class grrl problems.

Let me modify that for you as a parent:

Oh, FFS you hyperventilating, problem seeking, everything must support grrl power, mad cow: you're just proving what every man thinks about feminism is true. They're just tennis shoes, she isn't asking for five inch platform heels. She's a kid, they're glittery, and they blink, I know because I bought a pair for my niece with my wife this Xmas. Heck boys choose glittery, blinky, shoes too, does it really matter if they're blue?

Now STFU and don't shave while complaining about the patriarchy instead of doing something useful, like work at improving or actually educating yourself and your children about real evils in the world. You know, like people starving and freezing.
 
2014-02-02 10:52:08 AM  

hardinparamedic: clowncar on fire: I'm not sure how the poster suddenly becomes an advocate of the destruction of women's rights or blocking services to raped women.  Seems a little bit of projection was involved there.

I would highly encourage you to read up on the MRA movement.

My problem is not with people who demand judicial reform and fair treatment of men in family court or rape cases. My issue is people who white knight the MRA movement for being involved in this, while ignoring the downright evil things the people they represent do in addition to this.


You're generalizing.  All people who generalize like bunnies and Hitler.

The MRA is not Borg.  Feminists are not Borg.
 
2014-02-02 10:54:03 AM  

Slightly Darker Black Manjushri: Brittabot: I'm pregnant with my 2nd child at the moment, first daughter, and I've been thinking a lot about the whole princess thing.

I farking HATE "princess culture", always have, even when I was a kid, and I absolutely will not encourage it with my little girl when she is very young. However, once she reaches an age where she's more influenced by her peers, if she wants to watch princess movies and play with princess things I won't forbid it and won't make her feel bad for liking these things (while still encouraging her to have other interests, of course).

I'll probably try to steer her more towards the more competent princesses though. Like Princess Bubblegum from Adventure Time. She smart, gets shiat done and doesn't take crap from anyone. If more princesses were written like her I'd have a lot fewer issues with the whole genre.

And man, pink is almost impossible to avoid! I'm aiming for a less than 25% concentration for her wardrobe at the moment but I'm not sure how I'll fare.

Princess Bubblegum is the villain of that show. She cuts her own subjects apart for experimentation and creates an sphinx / abomination that tries to wipe out free will.


Yes, but apparently Disney Princesses will turn little girls into submissive, mal-adjusted, insecure adults.
 
2014-02-02 10:57:49 AM  

hardinparamedic: baconbeard: Exactly. "No True Feminist" would do such a thing.

You're not as clever as you think. ^_^

AngryDragon: Sure.  She freaked at being pregnant and went back to her druggie ex-boyfriend.  I didn't say anything about being a victim, I said it was unjust because I had no input.

Tragic. I hate to say this in such a cold, callous way, but did you ever think that seeing someone that can help you deal with your anger and grief MIGHT be a little more healthy than trying to white knight a group of people who pride themselves on being as vile as they can to anyone with a vagina?

What she did was her decision. Torturing yourself and, byproxy, other people over it isn't any way to go through life.

AngryDragon: What psychotic world do you live in?  I gave you a valid example of someone using the system repeatedly and knowingly to defraud as many men as she could while being backed completely by governmental institutions.

Which is just as valid and rational an argument as trying to justify spending millions of dollars to drug test every welfare recipient to find that one in a million person who's using crack cocaine on the Government dole.

Because you can create an exception to the rule does not invalidate the general rule. You know this.

AngryDragon: Where the hell did you get that I said anything on your list was justified?

You're white knighting a group that does just that, rather than trying to champion judicial reforms, your ire is directed to the fact that someone doesn't support that group. In fact, I have already told you I AGREE with the need for reforms - and you're still attacking me for the fact I won't support MRAs.

AngryDragon: So just so I have this right, even one woman being denied the right to choice is a tragedy, but any man being forced to experience a loss or being falsely accused if totally acceptable because of....equality?  That sum it up?

You do not have the right to affect the self-determination of others when it comes to their health ...


Jesus.  What the fark are you talking about?  Who the fark am I "white-knighting"?  You are the one attacking me.  I'm giving you perfectly valid experiences of why the laws are unjust in a very narrow range of circumstances and you have me supporting rapists, drug-testing of welfare recipients, and treating women as "spawn incubators.

What the fark is wrong with you?

Oh, and as far as you telling me to basically get over it because my future wife had an abortion without telling me?  I came to terms with it long ago.  Screw you though.  That is no different from some conservative asshole saying that you have to carry to term because you got raped and you'll get over it.
 
2014-02-02 11:00:17 AM  

Zasteva: I'm happy to have a civil discussion with you about this.

I enjoyed the article because it shows just the kind of trap someone who thinks of themselves as open-minded can get into, and how important it is to review our own actions and attitudes in the light of what we claim to believe. Often, we find our actions and attitudes are not congruent with our beliefs, and we need to either strive to be better people, or recognize that our beliefs have changed.

What did you think of the article?


Love to. In some ways I agree with the author of the piece. I'm firmly opposed to princess culture because I think it's harmful to girls and ultimately sets unrealistic life expectations. The author seems to be concerned primarily about the beauty implications, failing to realize that is she is a good parent her girls will be capable of being more than capable of handling life. Personally I think the real harm isn't the 'pretty' aspect as much as the princess aspect that can lead to adjustment issues later on in life.

It ties into helicopter parenting and refusing to let a kid just be a kid. Kids need to be allowed to succeed and fail so that they can become properly adjusted for adult life. I worked at a University for a few years and saw any number of young people come in and have significant adjustment issues.

Then again I'm the guy that just bought my princess obsessed 6 year old niece a remote control monster truck for Christmas. She loves that monster truck by the way.
 
2014-02-02 11:00:46 AM  

inglixthemad: Let me modify that for you as a parent:

Oh, FFS you hyperventilating, problem seeking, everything must support grrl power, mad cow: you're just proving what every man thinks about feminism is true. They're just tennis shoes, she isn't asking for five inch platform heels. She's a kid, they're glittery, and they blink, I know because I bought a pair for my niece with my wife this Xmas. Heck boys choose glittery, blinky, shoes too, does it really matter if they're blue?


You know, she pretty much came to the same conclusion herself at the end of the article.

Now STFU and don't shave while complaining about the patriarchy instead of doing something useful, like work at improving or actually educating yourself and your children about real evils in the world. You know, like people starving and freezing.

If you are trying to convince us that feminism is extreme, let me clue you in. Telling a woman who is thoughtfully wrestling with gender role issues for her daughters to STFU, or calling her a hyperventilating, problem seeking mad cow has exactly the opposite effect.

/especially if you are hyperventilating yourself when you say it
 
2014-02-02 11:01:45 AM  

AngryDragon: hardinparamedic:

Oh, and as far as you telling me to basically get over it because my future wife had an abortion without telling me?  <SNIP>  That is no different from some conservative asshole saying that you have to carry to term because you got raped and you'll get over it.


That's a reasonable point, actually.
 
2014-02-02 11:02:12 AM  

AngryDragon: Oh, and as far as you telling me to basically get over it because my future wife had an abortion without telling me?  I came to terms with it long ago.  Screw you though.   That is no different from some conservative asshole saying that you have to carry to term because you got raped and you'll get over it.


Clearly not,

And yeah. It's EXACTLY like that. It's EXACTLY like forcing a woman to endager her life and livelyhood to carry her rapist's baby, where it will remain a CONSTANT reminder of her victimization and - as an added bonus - can be sued for custody of in 34 states.

EXACTLY like that.

www.garyasanchez.com
 
2014-02-02 11:04:16 AM  

AngryDragon: What the fark is wrong with you?


You really shouldn't have brought this up.

You should have NEVER brought this up if you didn't expect it to be deconstructed in this conversation.
 
2014-02-02 11:07:14 AM  

hardinparamedic: AngryDragon: What the fark is wrong with you?

You really shouldn't have brought this up.

You should have NEVER brought this up if you didn't expect it to be deconstructed in this conversation.


But the thing is, you're not deconstructing anything. You're painting strawmen all around this guy and then using that to be condescending.

Why are you doing this? What sort of benefit are you getting out of it?
 
2014-02-02 11:10:02 AM  

TwistedFark: hardinparamedic: AngryDragon: What the fark is wrong with you?

You really shouldn't have brought this up.

You should have NEVER brought this up if you didn't expect it to be deconstructed in this conversation.

But the thing is, you're not deconstructing anything. You're painting strawmen all around this guy and then using that to be condescending.

Why are you doing this? What sort of benefit are you getting out of it?


Welcome to FARK. Some people thrive on that sort of thing around here.
 
2014-02-02 11:10:48 AM  
This is almost as bad as the other mom who wouldn't let her 11-year-old son use Axe body wash and wanted him to go back to his Spongebob wash instead.
 
2014-02-02 11:11:26 AM  

TwistedFark: But the thing is, you're not deconstructing anything. You're painting strawmen all around this guy and then using that to be condescending.

Why are you doing this? What sort of benefit are you getting out of it?


I'm actually not. He's using the fact that his girlfriend got an abortion without his permission to do so as a reason to try to justify forcing women to carry a fetus against their will to term, OR forcing them to sign away their right to seek remediation and child support because someone was gaming the system and he happened to be the unfortunate victim of that, ignoring the fact that he is the exception rather than the rule of the deadbeat dad evading the system.

The fact he actually compared what happened to him with the plight of a rape victim being blamed for her rape and forced to cary his rapist's offspring as being exactly similar demonstrates how separate from reality that belief is.

And I'm getting a paycheck from Big Feminism. Seriously?
 
2014-02-02 11:12:50 AM  
Lighten  up lady. A woman who is a friend of mine is a very progressive feminist. Her daughter is the girliest girl you will ever meet. The mom never had a cow about it and the daughter is in college now studying science. Get a grip lady!i
 
2014-02-02 11:13:21 AM  
In every one of those cases, the men who were ordered to pay child support had their names willingly placed on the birth certificate as the legal father of that child. You seem to leave that fact out.

Unless the man is the biological father (excluding cases where the man is raped)  or he went through an official adoption agency, there is no legitimate reason why he should be on the hook to support a kid.  Placing his name on a piece of paper does not make the kids DNA change so it's his biological kid.
 
2014-02-02 11:13:37 AM  
As for a mother who freaks out over the kind of shoes her daughter wants, she's privileged she can buy her daughters new shoes so now STFU.
 
2014-02-02 11:13:52 AM  

supayoda: This is almost as bad as the other mom who wouldn't let her 11-year-old son use Axe body wash and wanted him to go back to his Spongebob wash instead.


Axe is awful. Skip that stuff and just go straight to grown-up soap and shampoo.
 
2014-02-02 11:15:20 AM  

hardinparamedic: AngryDragon: What the fark is wrong with you?

You really shouldn't have brought this up.

You should have NEVER brought this up if you didn't expect it to be deconstructed in this conversation.


You haven't refuted anything.  In fact, the very first sentence I typed AGREED with a woman's right to an abortion.  Go back and read it.

All you've done is spout a political plank that had absolutely nothing to do with the point I made.  And since you have no apparent rebuttal, your responses are becoming more and more vile, aggressive, and confrontational. If you are so absolutist in your opinion that you can't see that there are perfectly valid cases that should be addressed and discussed by all sides, then there is really no point in debating you.

For the record though, your perspective is exactly why modern feminism has a terrible reputation and its getting worse.
 
2014-02-02 11:15:55 AM  

hardinparamedic: TwistedFark: But the thing is, you're not deconstructing anything. You're painting strawmen all around this guy and then using that to be condescending.

Why are you doing this? What sort of benefit are you getting out of it?

I'm actually not. He's using the fact that his girlfriend got an abortion without his permission to do so as a reason to try to justify forcing women to carry a fetus against their will to term, OR forcing them to sign away their right to seek remediation and child support because someone was gaming the system and he happened to be the unfortunate victim of that, ignoring the fact that he is the exception rather than the rule of the deadbeat dad evading the system.

The fact he actually compared what happened to him with the plight of a rape victim being blamed for her rape and forced to cary his rapist's offspring as being exactly similar demonstrates how separate from reality that belief is.

And I'm getting a paycheck from Big Feminism. Seriously?


I read his explanation differently.  I read that he was talking about his emotional reaction as being comparable.  After someone so rudely told him to seek counseling for having emotions.  Nuances.
 
2014-02-02 11:16:19 AM  

Warlordtrooper: In every one of those cases, the men who were ordered to pay child support had their names willingly placed on the birth certificate as the legal father of that child. You seem to leave that fact out.

Unless the man is the biological father (excluding cases where the man is raped)  or he went through an official adoption agency, there is no legitimate reason why he should be on the hook to support a kid.  Placing his name on a piece of paper does not make the kids DNA change so it's his biological kid.


In some states, a child born in marriage is legally presumed to be the child of the husband and even if they divorce and DNA evidence later proves the husband was not the biological father, he cannot avoid child support. That's how it works in Louisiana. Legal acknowledgement of paternity can be very difficult to over come.
 
2014-02-02 11:17:25 AM  

onyxruby: Zasteva: I'm happy to have a civil discussion with you about this.

I enjoyed the article because it shows just the kind of trap someone who thinks of themselves as open-minded can get into, and how important it is to review our own actions and attitudes in the light of what we claim to believe. Often, we find our actions and attitudes are not congruent with our beliefs, and we need to either strive to be better people, or recognize that our beliefs have changed.

What did you think of the article?

Love to. In some ways I agree with the author of the piece. I'm firmly opposed to princess culture because I think it's harmful to girls and ultimately sets unrealistic life expectations. The author seems to be concerned primarily about the beauty implications, failing to realize that is she is a good parent her girls will be capable of being more than capable of handling life. Personally I think the real harm isn't the 'pretty' aspect as much as the princess aspect that can lead to adjustment issues later on in life.

It ties into helicopter parenting and refusing to let a kid just be a kid. Kids need to be allowed to succeed and fail so that they can become properly adjusted for adult life. I worked at a University for a few years and saw any number of young people come in and have significant adjustment issues.

Then again I'm the guy that just bought my princess obsessed 6 year old niece a remote control monster truck for Christmas. She loves that monster truck by the way.


I had the same reaction you did while reading it; that she's already being a good parent to her girls and they won't become mindless slaves to beauty and fashion just because of glittery pink shoes. And that kids will be kids. I personally had to come to that same realization about my son playing with toy guns; an understanding that his mother has yet to fully share.

I think we are on the same page about this.

One other thing you might want to consider is whether your Weeners to the comment was a neutral and idea based as you intended. It was easy to read your post as calling the poster a radical and uninterested in equality.

In my humble opinion, the term "mansplaining" is less offensive than calling someone a radical or saying they are uninterested in equality because "mansplaining" is a jibe at a particular behavior, in this case a specific action of dismissing all of feminism as "not about equality". I thought the "mansplaining" response was a rather mild rebuke of that dismissal.

I'm sure you saw it differently.
 
2014-02-02 11:19:28 AM  

AngryDragon: If you are so absolutist in your opinion that you can't see that there are perfectly valid cases that should be addressed and discussed by all sides, then there is really no point in debating you.


No. I've actually admitted, for the third time now, that there are cases that should be discussed by all sides. I've actually agreed with you on the need for judicial reform. What I haven't agreed with, and absolutely will not agree with is:

1) MRAs are excusable for their vile behavior because they happen to tout that.
2) That the system should be thrown out, and protections based on gender should be thrown out because of exceptions to the system as a whole.

You might disagree with me on these. I really don't care, because if those two are what you want to debate on, it's going to be pointless as neither of us will change our minds.

AngryDragon: In fact, the very first sentence I typed AGREED with a woman's right to an abortion.  Go back and read it.


And then you went on the attack for a woman exercising her right to abortion because she didn't gain your consent for it first, while avoiding the disturbing implication that you're actually advocating forcing a woman to carry a fetus to term if her partner does not agree to that abortion.
 
2014-02-02 11:20:46 AM  
FTA: I want to ask them if they worry about the ramifications of allowing their child to worship a culture that teaches them girls are for looking pretty and rescuing.

Apparently she hasn't seen a princess movie in 30 years.
 
2014-02-02 11:21:37 AM  

Ker_Thwap: I read his explanation differently.  I read that he was talking about his emotional reaction as being comparable.  After someone so rudely told him to seek counseling for having emotions.  Nuances.


Thank you.  Precisely
 
2014-02-02 11:21:55 AM  

Ker_Thwap: hardinparamedic: TwistedFark: But the thing is, you're not deconstructing anything. You're painting strawmen all around this guy and then using that to be condescending.

Why are you doing this? What sort of benefit are you getting out of it?

I'm actually not. He's using the fact that his girlfriend got an abortion without his permission to do so as a reason to try to justify forcing women to carry a fetus against their will to term, OR forcing them to sign away their right to seek remediation and child support because someone was gaming the system and he happened to be the unfortunate victim of that, ignoring the fact that he is the exception rather than the rule of the deadbeat dad evading the system.

The fact he actually compared what happened to him with the plight of a rape victim being blamed for her rape and forced to cary his rapist's offspring as being exactly similar demonstrates how separate from reality that belief is.

And I'm getting a paycheck from Big Feminism. Seriously?

I read his explanation differently.  I read that he was talking about his emotional reaction as being comparable.  After someone so rudely told him to seek counseling for having emotions.  Nuances.


To me it was just that he shared something emotionally difficult with us by way of saying, "Here's something for consideration as well." which is a perfectly valid, and I guess around here, a particularly brave thing to do.

Even his comparison wasn't directly about him, it was more about the attack on him - and I agree, there is little difference between the way hardinparamedic has dismissed his emotional well being as a concern as to how a extreme religious conservative would dismiss the emotional well being of his ex-girlfriend for doing what she did.
 
2014-02-02 11:22:10 AM  
Here's my take:

- The ideals and goals of feminism are still desperately needed in today's society and are truly beneficial to all genders
- A significant number of people have a warped view of what feminism actually means. This is due to various things such as past prejudices and old patterns, fear (of losing privilege), and, yes, even articles and statements by clueless self-proclaimed "feminists" (I'm looking at you Jebel, Slate, Salon, etc.) who are either selling something (page-clicks, "Bust Down the Patriarchy" iPhone apps, etc.), pushing their own selfish agendas, or are vainly attempting to give their miserable lives some sort of meaning by "fighting the good cause" as a "Social Justice Warrior".
- The stated goals of most MRA's seem reasonable and worthy on paper, but I've yet to come across an MRA group that wasn't filled with sexist, impotent, whining bigots
- Using terms like "mansplaining", "feminazi", etc. shows that you are not really interested in equality or working together to make the world a better place, but rather you are instead a puerile infant who's only argumentative technique is to hopefully shut down opposing arguments with ridicule and shame
- Disney sells a product in order to meet a demand. If you don't like the product, don't buy it for your children.
- Letting your young daughter dress up as a Disney princess will in no way cause here to be become weak or subservient to the dreaded "Patriarchy" (For FSM's sake, let kids be kids) How you raise her, and the values you instil in her are going to be what shape her, not the "Ariel Undersea Kitchen" her grandma bought her when she was 7
- People who feel that they've "failed as a parent" because their daughter likes Princesses, "girl" lego, or other gender-specific toys have indeed failed as parents (or on the path to doing so), but not for the reasons that they think

That is all
 
2014-02-02 11:22:16 AM  
bigchill.com
 
2014-02-02 11:23:34 AM  

hardinparamedic: AngryDragon: What the fark is wrong with you?

You really shouldn't have brought this up.

You should have NEVER brought this up if you didn't expect it to be deconstructed in this conversation.


You've had my support through most of this conversation, but you are losing it here.

AngryDragon had a painful experience. As human beings striving for a better society, our response should be one of sympathy, not of dismissal.

I took your suggestion that he seek counseling for the grief as legitimate concern. So please read this in that same spirit: It seems like you have misplaced some anger toward an image of AngryDragon that is not deserved. You might want to think about whether or not that's true, and if it is, why.
 
2014-02-02 11:24:34 AM  

hardinparamedic: And then you went on the attack for a woman exercising her right to abortion because she didn't gain your consent for it first, while avoiding the disturbing implication that you're actually advocating forcing a woman to carry a fetus to term if her partner does not agree to that abortion.


So... since when is describing the negative ramifications of someone elses actions on your own emotional wellbeing an attack on said other person?
 
2014-02-02 11:24:46 AM  

TwistedFark: I agree, there is little difference between the way hardinparamedic has dismissed his emotional well being as a concern as to how a extreme religious conservative would dismiss the emotional well being of his ex-girlfriend for doing what she did.


Pointing out how his emotional objections to what happened do not justify the road he is leading down with that statement is the same as telling a woman that God was the one that had her rapist brutalize her, violate her in the most intimate way possible, and forcibly impregnate her against her will with a fetus she never wanted in the first place, and then forcing her to carry that child to term where it will allow that rapist to continue to manipulate her life for the rest of her natural?

Really.
 
2014-02-02 11:26:11 AM  

hardinparamedic: MRAs are excusable for their vile behavior because they happen to tout that


I have no idea what this means.

hardinparamedic: That the system should be thrown out, and protections based on gender should be thrown out because of exceptions to the system as a whole


I never said that.

But you are right, there is no point in discussing any of this with someone like you.  Interesting conversation though  Will probably have to look into this MRA thing because anything opposed to your confrontational and hostile position must have some merit.  Thanks for the heads up.
 
2014-02-02 11:26:36 AM  

TwistedFark: So... since when is describing the negative ramifications of someone elses actions on your own emotional wellbeing an attack on said other person?


Because those emotions do not come close to justifying the ends that road leads down - namely forcing a person to obtain consent from their partner for an abortion, and the idea is not only offense, but shows a disconnect with the reality of abortion in America.
 
2014-02-02 11:27:12 AM  

Nabb1: Warlordtrooper: In every one of those cases, the men who were ordered to pay child support had their names willingly placed on the birth certificate as the legal father of that child. You seem to leave that fact out.

Unless the man is the biological father (excluding cases where the man is raped)  or he went through an official adoption agency, there is no legitimate reason why he should be on the hook to support a kid.  Placing his name on a piece of paper does not make the kids DNA change so it's his biological kid.

In some states, a child born in marriage is legally presumed to be the child of the husband and even if they divorce and DNA evidence later proves the husband was not the biological father, he cannot avoid child support. That's how it works in Louisiana. Legal acknowledgement of paternity can be very difficult to over come.


But that's my point about men being treated unfairly. They shouldnt be forced to provide for a child that is not theirs. It's nice if they choose to but it shouldn't be forced upon them if they are not the biological father
 
2014-02-02 11:28:12 AM  

hardinparamedic: TwistedFark: I agree, there is little difference between the way hardinparamedic has dismissed his emotional well being as a concern as to how a extreme religious conservative would dismiss the emotional well being of his ex-girlfriend for doing what she did.

Pointing out how his emotional objections to what happened do not justify the road he is leading down with that statement is the same as telling a woman that God was the one that had her rapist brutalize her, violate her in the most intimate way possible, and forcibly impregnate her against her will with a fetus she never wanted in the first place, and then forcing her to carry that child to term where it will allow that rapist to continue to manipulate her life for the rest of her natural?

Really.


You can't see that you're the only one who is inferring some "road he is leading down with that statement." Why do you have to extrapolate things that are never said, or even barely inferred to attempt to make a point? What's going on with you that you need to do this?
 
2014-02-02 11:28:23 AM  

AngryDragon: But you are right, there is no point in discussing any of this with someone like you.  Interesting conversation though  Will probably have to look into this MRA thing because anything opposed to your confrontational and hostile position must have some merit.  Thanks for the heads up.


Absolutely! Anything I can do to further your idea that the ends of depriving rights from women are justified by what happened to you individually.

You'll fit right in.
 
2014-02-02 11:28:37 AM  

The Pope of Manwich Village: [bigchill.com image 850x513]


I'm colorblind.  Can I assume there was something pink in that kitchen?  It just looked money colored to me.  I did like the retro appliances however.
 
2014-02-02 11:28:59 AM  

hardinparamedic: clowncar on fire: I'm not sure how the poster suddenly becomes an advocate of the destruction of women's rights or blocking services to raped women.  Seems a little bit of projection was involved there.

I would highly encourage you to read up on the MRA movement.

My problem is not with people who demand judicial reform and fair treatment of men in family court or rape cases. My issue is people who white knight the MRA movement for being involved in this, while ignoring the downright evil things the people they represent do in addition to this.


So basically you agree with the MRA movement:

My problem is not with people who demand judicial reform and fair treatment of men in family court or rape cases.

You just disagree with some of the people who belong in the movement? Why do you not equally condemn the feminist movement as it also has a very large problem with institutional sexism? Why can we dismiss the entire MRA movement with derision because of some of the members, yet not do the same to feminism. I mean what about the 'All men are rapists', 'Consensual sex is always rape', and the rest of that crazy bullshiat?

Maybe it's just because I live in Britain, where we all largely have moved on from caring about women's reproductive rights as anyone's issue but their own. When people say MRA I think http://www.fathers-4-justice.org/ and people who think that the recent trend of boys failing massively in schools is an actual issue.

More to the point I never really see people take the MRA people on on issues - it is always personal attacks, ad hominems and straw men.
 
2014-02-02 11:31:35 AM  
In the Animal Kingdom, pink is a color you'd not want to see.
It means death to the bearer.
Skinless flesh,
what does it mean?
 
2014-02-02 11:32:38 AM  

feckingmorons: Do people actually read slate or is it some type of autoerotic literary outlet for the people who write that drivel?


It's pretty obvious that neither Subby nor 95% of the idiots commenting in this thread read the article.
 
2014-02-02 11:36:09 AM  

meep3d: So basically you agree with the MRA movement:


Not at all. I don't agree the problems with the judicial and family court system entitle people to treat women like subhuman, or eliminate protections on gender from our society which historically have been proven to need to exist.


meep3d: Why can we dismiss the entire MRA movement with derision because of some of the members, yet not do the same to feminism. I mean what about the 'All men are rapists', 'Consensual sex is always rape', and the rest of that crazy bullshiat?


Because, where as what you describe represents the fringe of feminism - namely radical feminism, despite your attempt to paint ALL feminist philosophies in the same light, the MRA movement represents the fringe of their respective side as well.

See, here's the thing, I do dismiss those people the same as I do MRA. By openly mocking them, in fact.

meep3d: Maybe it's just because I live in Britain, where we all largely have moved on from caring about women's reproductive rights as anyone's issue but their own. When people say MRA I think http://www.fathers-4-justice.org/ and people who think that the recent trend of boys failing massively in schools is an actual issue.


And in the United States and, to a lesser extent, Canada, the MRA movement is basically made up of these guys:

meep3d: More to the point I never really see people take the MRA people on on issues - it is always personal attacks, ad hominems and straw men.


They're taken to task all the time on their claims of epidemics of false rape accusations, that women actually initiate most domestic abuse incidents and the man is just "defending themselves", etc. And some of their ideas, such as family court reform, are actually good ideas. But that doesn't mean that others are blatantly wrong or based on outright lies, and their behavior is any less vile.
 
2014-02-02 11:37:36 AM  

hardinparamedic: TwistedFark: I agree, there is little difference between the way hardinparamedic has dismissed his emotional well being as a concern as to how a extreme religious conservative would dismiss the emotional well being of his ex-girlfriend for doing what she did.

Pointing out how his emotional objections to what happened do not justify the road he is leading down with that statement is the same as telling a woman that God was the one that had her rapist brutalize her, violate her in the most intimate way possible, and forcibly impregnate her against her will with a fetus she never wanted in the first place, and then forcing her to carry that child to term where it will allow that rapist to continue to manipulate her life for the rest of her natural?

Really.


Yeah, you're arguing in your own head at this point.  Granted, it was a clumsy analogy, but you're trying to build a rocketship out of scooter parts.

/Speaking of clumsy analogies...
 
2014-02-02 11:43:56 AM  

Ker_Thwap: hardinparamedic: TwistedFark: I agree, there is little difference between the way hardinparamedic has dismissed his emotional well being as a concern as to how a extreme religious conservative would dismiss the emotional well being of his ex-girlfriend for doing what she did.

Pointing out how his emotional objections to what happened do not justify the road he is leading down with that statement is the same as telling a woman that God was the one that had her rapist brutalize her, violate her in the most intimate way possible, and forcibly impregnate her against her will with a fetus she never wanted in the first place, and then forcing her to carry that child to term where it will allow that rapist to continue to manipulate her life for the rest of her natural?

Really.

Yeah, you're arguing in your own head at this point.  Granted, it was a clumsy analogy, but you're trying to build a rocketship out of scooter parts.

/Speaking of clumsy analogies...


Yeah, I know that I'm riding the Scootie Puff Jr. of arguments at this point.

speedhero.files.wordpress.com

Oh well. Back to politics.
 
2014-02-02 11:44:52 AM  

hardinparamedic: AngryDragon: But you are right, there is no point in discussing any of this with someone like you.  Interesting conversation though  Will probably have to look into this MRA thing because anything opposed to your confrontational and hostile position must have some merit.  Thanks for the heads up.

Absolutely! Anything I can do to further your idea that the ends of depriving rights from women are justified by what happened to you individually.

You'll fit right in.


I'm confident, after 5 minutes of browsing there, in saying this:

You are all insane.  Them and you.

I am proud to say, as with most things in my life, I'm a centrist on this issue.  Feminists and MRAs.  Don't you people have anything better to do?  What the hell ever happened to HUMAN rights?
 
2014-02-02 11:46:33 AM  

Ker_Thwap: The Pope of Manwich Village: [bigchill.com image 850x513]

I'm colorblind.  Can I assume there was something pink in that kitchen?  It just looked money colored to me.  I did like the retro appliances however.


Yes. But, not just any pink. It's a man-made shade created with the latest research in color psychology. Its calming effect, combined with associations of love and romance, put the little lady at ease after a busy day shopping, but also provides the mental trigger necessary for her to make you a perfect pot roast.
 
2014-02-02 11:47:42 AM  

The Pope of Manwich Village: [bigchill.com image 850x513]


There's an app for thatimg.fark.net
 
2014-02-02 11:50:36 AM  

hardinparamedic: Slartibreakfast: "Mansplaining"... 90% of the time it is used as a feminists way of telling men to sit down, shut up, and learn their place.

You sound incensed that someone would tell you to STFU when talking about something you're blatantly wrong about or trying to spin.


That's pretty funny coming from someone who lost their shiat in this very thread without provocation. You'll get over it.
 
2014-02-02 11:51:11 AM  

hardinparamedic: TwistedFark: But the thing is, you're not deconstructing anything. You're painting strawmen all around this guy and then using that to be condescending.

Why are you doing this? What sort of benefit are you getting out of it?

I'm actually not. He's using the fact that his girlfriend got an abortion without his permission to do so as a reason to try to justify forcing women to carry a fetus against their will to term, OR forcing them to sign away their right to seek remediation and child support because someone was gaming the system and he happened to be the unfortunate victim of that, ignoring the fact that he is the exception rather than the rule of the deadbeat dad evading the system.

The fact he actually compared what happened to him with the plight of a rape victim being blamed for her rape and forced to cary his rapist's offspring as being exactly similar demonstrates how separate from reality that belief is.

And I'm getting a paycheck from Big Feminism. Seriously?


What on earth is wrong with you?  He said nothing of the sort.  You're distorting, misrepresenting, and outright dissembling, and it speaks to some deeper psychological or mental damage that I am neither qualified to assess nor care about you enough to be concerned with.

The one true thing you've said is that you're not getting a paycheck from Big Feminism.  That's because they wouldn't have anything to do with someone as contemptible as you.  I am a passionate advocate of causes supporting the protection of rights across all genders and let me tell you, you are NOT helping.
 
2014-02-02 11:52:00 AM  
hardinparamedic:

Because, where as what you describe represents the fringe of feminism - namely radical feminism, despite your attempt to paint ALL feminist philosophies in the same light, the MRA movement represents the fringe of their respective side as well.

See, here's the thing, I do dismiss those people the same as I do MRA. By openly mocking them, in fact.


I'm not even involved in the MRA movement at all, I only acknowledge that discrimination is not a single sided issue and think that it is worth addressing. If anything I'd say you have the problem, as you jumped right in to calling me a Nazi (and don't weasel out, there are plenty of less polarizing propagandists, you picked a facist for a reason) for simply saying that the maybe the movement has a point.  You didn't care what my viewpoint was, in fact you didn't even read what I wrote (and I kept it short) and moved straight on to the accusations and abuse. No wonder you say that all MRA supporters are evil since you don't apparently read what they say.

I am only defending here as it seems all it takes to get this torrent of hate is to suggest that feminism alone is not a road to true equality. And if you do think that a movement that, at it's core, excludes the other side of the debate by default then you lack the critical thinking skills to even be worth talking to.
 
2014-02-02 11:55:35 AM  

bahr: You're distorting, misrepresenting, and outright dissembling, and it speaks to some deeper psychological or mental damage that I am neither qualified to assess nor care about you enough to be concerned with.


Well, I suppose that I've got amateur psychiatrists on FARK commenting on my mental status. So there's that.

AngryDragon: I'm confident, after 5 minutes of browsing there, in saying this:

You are all insane.  Them and you.

I am proud to say, as with most things in my life, I'm a centrist on this issue.  Feminists and MRAs.  Don't you people have anything better to do?  What the hell ever happened to HUMAN rights?


That's all I wanted out of this entire thing was for you to see the kind of people who you were defending. Even a little bit.

Maybe what I just got you will be a small consolation for putting up with me being an asshole these past few posts.
 
2014-02-02 11:57:06 AM  

hardinparamedic: hasty ambush: Family court, child custody, Obamacare (all that free stuff attached for women's health issues)etc.
Look at child support. In many states DNA evidence can prove a man is not the father of the child  but he  still can get stuck with child support.  When was the last time a woman got stuck paying child support for a child that was not hers?

In every one of those cases, the men who were ordered to pay child support had their names willingly placed on the birth certificate as the legal father of that child. You seem to leave that fact out.

In most cases that is because the lying coont told their husband/boyfriend that they were the father . There was that whole trust in relationship thing that women are successful in exploiting. Rare is the man who will accept the paternity of a kid he knows isn't his. And if he has been found to have been lied to why shouldn't the law allow for a correction, along with at least a civil prosecution of the mom for fraud?

hasty ambush: Look at the whole birth control abortion debate.  for the Feminist the battle cry is my body my business and men should not be making laws about women's bodies.  But when it comes to paying for the consequences of what they do with their bodies  they sure don't object to the concept of male tax payers having to pay for them (Federally funded abortions)

 Here is a hint for you  girls if you use other people's money they are going to want some say so in how it is spent even if it used on your body.  If you are using your own money to engage in your own little form of eugenics feel free to tell them to STFU.
That's an incredibly long winded and idiotic way to tell us you have no clue what you're talking about, since the various Hyde amendments prohibit the federal funding of abortion outside of a court order or medical necessity.

Which does not keep Obama and other feminists from demanding otherwise.

;As a controversial bill banning federal abortion funding heads to the House floor this week, the Obama administration is threatening a veto if it reaches the president's desk.

Link

www.theblaze.com


Plus just because and organization can't using federal funds for abortions the availability of those funds doe snot prevent it from directing its other revenue for abortions-the x among of federal dollars they receive for rent, building maintenance and condoms mean d they can take a similar amount, from a different source formally dedicated to such things and use it for abortions. So in way the tax pauyers are still funding abortions.

hasty ambush: Look at eh Violence Against Women Act. Not the Violence against domestic partners, shack ups or violence against  people or men act  but Women.

 Special funding for extra prosecution effort and enhanced penlites for violence against the alleged equal gender of female.

It is not about wanting equal treatment but want special treatment and free stuff.

Okay, you can solve this easily.

Give me objective numbers on how many men versus how many women are abused each year in the United States. How many end up in the ER or in hospital because of that abuse? How many end ...


And your point would be what? That perhaps women are more likly report things like being assaulted?

It seems strange to me that the gender fighting for the right to serve as a Marine Rifleman or Army infantryman and endure the rigors of the battlefield on an equal footing with men find themselves unable to handle the rigors of the civilian world on an equal basis. Unless of course they are going to insist on special battlefield rules to accommodate them.

 
2014-02-02 11:57:57 AM  
Wait until Eva grows up and marries a Nazi dictator. And it will all be your fault, Mom.
/God, I hate Salon. Whinging, hand-wringing, sniveling stereotypes.
 
2014-02-02 11:58:11 AM  

hardinparamedic: That's the thing. There is no serious scenario for MRA. They really don't care about men's rights as a whole - they legitimately refer to any male who does not share their views as "traitors to their gender", akin to the whole "Traitor to their race" thing that is so popular in white supremacy.


But it is the MRA's who fight against strawmen. You are farking delusional.
 
2014-02-02 11:59:27 AM  
My feminist daughter is home for a visit and was railing against "princess culture" and the patriarchy just yesterday. And the day before. And the day before that.

I opined that Hollywood should boost the self esteem of boys by portraying Superman as a homely, pudgy weak guy who cries when Solomon Grundy gets the drop on him. Went right over her head.

The most spoiled and privileged women on the planet are also the most complaining and self-pitying. With a factory-default hostility towards men thrown in.

 Oh the things she will learn when she has her own kids.
 
2014-02-02 12:00:33 PM  

meep3d: If anything I'd say you have the problem, as you jumped right in to calling me a Nazi (and don't weasel out, there are plenty of less polarizing propagandists, you picked a facist for a reason)


Not really. I just picked the most well known that came onto the top of my head. If I wanted to call you a Nazi, I'd outright do it. I've actually done so to people several times on here, and I'm quite the asshole, so I don't really care to hide behind words if that's what I mean.

But if it makes you feel persecuted and victimized by me, you're more than welcome to feel that way.

meep3d: I'm not even involved in the MRA movement at all, I only acknowledge that discrimination is not a single sided issue and think that it is worth addressing.


Right. You're just  concerned.

meep3d: You didn't care what my viewpoint was, in fact you didn't even read what I wrote (and I kept it short) and moved straight on to the accusations and abuse. No wonder you say that all MRA supporters are evil since you don't apparently read what they say.


Yeah yeah. Just because you have a viewpoint on the matter, does not mean it's worth consideration if you can't see the reason that rational people would want to separate themselves from those who identify with the MRA movement.

The fact that you've been confronted with what these people ACTUALLY are and represent, and you still feel peachy keen defending their views is telling, dude.

meep3d: I am only defending here as it seems all it takes to get this torrent of hate is to suggest that feminism alone is not a road to true equality. And if you do think that a movement that, at it's core, excludes the other side of the debate by default then you lack the critical thinking skills to even be worth talking to.


The irony of this is palpable.
 
2014-02-02 12:04:52 PM  
I HATE the color pink. My daughter loves it. I let her wear pink because it's just a color, not a statement of politics. Those politics are put on the color by us; the color does not care about anything.

The feminist movement was born, in part, out of the idea that men controlled everything and did not care a damn about women or how that affected them.

Unfortunately, when the feminist movement started changing things, they did to the men what they argued men had done to them: made changes, made demands, and pushed things forward without concern to how this would affect men. They are just as guilty as gendered, limited, and selfish thinking as they stated men were.

I do not buy into this women make X amount of money per hour versus men who make Y per hour for the same job. IF it is true it is because women tend to leave the work world to have babies or take care of family members who are terminal, not because they have vaginas.

I hate that the courts are biased toward women, even when it's clear the woman has no earthly business having the kids. Giving birth make make a woman a mother, but it does not make her a mommy.
 
2014-02-02 12:05:10 PM  

hardinparamedic: bahr: You're distorting, misrepresenting, and outright dissembling, and it speaks to some deeper psychological or mental damage that I am neither qualified to assess nor care about you enough to be concerned with.

Well, I suppose that I've got amateur psychiatrists on FARK commenting on my mental status. So there's that.

AngryDragon: I'm confident, after 5 minutes of browsing there, in saying this:

You are all insane.  Them and you.

I am proud to say, as with most things in my life, I'm a centrist on this issue.  Feminists and MRAs.  Don't you people have anything better to do?  What the hell ever happened to HUMAN rights?

That's all I wanted out of this entire thing was for you to see the kind of people who you were defending. Even a little bit.

Maybe what I just got you will be a small consolation for putting up with me being an asshole these past few posts.


This is likely just cheap cover for yourself, I doubt you wanted anyone to get anything out of discourse with you. I'm fairly certain that you did it solely for your own benefit, whatever that was.
 
2014-02-02 12:06:35 PM  

hasty ambush: In most cases that is because the lying coont told their husband/boyfriend that they were the father . There was that whole trust in relationship thing that women are successful in exploiting. Rare is the man who will accept the paternity of a kid he knows isn't his. And if he has been found to have been lied to why shouldn't the law allow for a correction, along with at least a civil prosecution of the mom for fraud?


Yes. It's the "lying coonts", not the numerous deadbeat dads who far outnumber the situations you describe who make up the rules.

And the law doesn't allow for correction or remediation in the face of objective proof otherwise? Really?

hasty ambush: Which does not keep Obama and other feminists from demanding otherwise.

;As a controversial bill banning federal abortion funding heads to the House floor this week, the Obama administration is threatening a veto if it reaches the president's desk.


Do you enjoy being an open, repeated liar?

The bill mentioned in your linked article calls hormonal birth control and the morning after pill abortion methods. Neither induce abortion.

hasty ambush: Plus just because and organization can't using federal funds for abortions the availability of those funds doe snot prevent it from directing its other revenue for abortions-the x among of federal dollars they receive for rent, building maintenance and condoms mean d they can take a similar amount, from a different source formally dedicated to such things and use it for abortions. So in way the tax pauyers are still funding abortions.


Actually, no they can't. Planned Parenthood and similar organizations who provide abortion services in addition to reproductive health have to account for every cent of federal money they are given and be able to objectively demonstrate they were not used to provide abortive services.

Which, again - is required by the various hyde amendments.

hasty ambush: And your point would be what? That perhaps women are more likly report things like being assaulted?


Still waiting for those numbers.

hasty ambush: It seems strange to me that the gender fighting for the right to serve as a Marine Rifleman or Army infantryman and endure the rigors of the battlefield on an equal footing with men find themselves unable to handle the rigors of the civilian world on an equal basis. Unless of course they are going to insist on special battlefield rules to accommodate them.


3.bp.blogspot.com
What does this have to do with women being abused?
 
2014-02-02 12:06:41 PM  

hardinparamedic: Maybe what I just got you will be a small consolation for putting up with me being an asshole these past few posts.


I'll try to phrase this nicely.  You didn't "get that" from him.  That was his point all along.  You just finally understood it. Your political views aren't particularly radical, a lot of people will go right along with you on that road.

I say this as a random internet stranger friend weirdo.   Take courses on debating, take courses on logic.  You'll be much more capable of channeling your awesome passion into credible debate.

/I now want a Scootie Jr.  When I win the lottery, I'm having one fabricated.
//If some crazy skilled sheet metal worker wants to make me one, I'll get you my contact information.
 
2014-02-02 12:07:30 PM  

umad: hardinparamedic: That's the thing. There is no serious scenario for MRA. They really don't care about men's rights as a whole - they legitimately refer to any male who does not share their views as "traitors to their gender", akin to the whole "Traitor to their race" thing that is so popular in white supremacy.

But it is the MRA's who fight against strawmen. You are farking delusional.


Did you miss my post where the head of UCAS (not an MRA group, FYI) said that men will soon become "the most disadvantaged group in the country when it comes to going to university". How is that not a problem?

Do you also not see problems with family courts, which I handily linked a group that supports men's rights - http://www.fathers-4-justice.org

Are you actually saying that fathers4justice should just disband, as they don't have a 'serious scenario'?
 
2014-02-02 12:08:08 PM  

TwistedFark: This is likely just cheap cover for yourself, I doubt you wanted anyone to get anything out of discourse with you. I'm fairly certain that you did it solely for your own benefit, whatever that was.


Yep. I'm a sociopathic criminal mastermind of internet debate.

My gambit of engaging someone bluntly on a forum known for blunt conversation about topics posted to it is all part of a brilliant plan to do something evil. And Nefarious.
 
2014-02-02 12:11:19 PM  

meep3d: Did you miss my post where the head of UCAS (not an MRA group, FYI) said that men will soon become "the most disadvantaged group in the country when it comes to going to university". How is that not a problem?


Yeah, you apparently ignored the rest of the article, and just cherrypicked the part you liked.
 
2014-02-02 12:12:31 PM  
hardinparamedic:
But if it makes you feel persecuted and victimized by me, you're more than welcome to feel that way.

I don't feel 'persecuted' or 'victimised'. I just think you're rude and obnoxious and using your superiority complex to justify your antisocial behaviour. But this is the Internet, where the anonymity for some reason makes people think it's somehow fine to act in a way that would normally be socially unacceptable.
 
2014-02-02 12:13:48 PM  

meep3d: I don't feel 'persecuted' or 'victimised'. I just think you're rude and obnoxious and using your superiority complex to justify your antisocial behaviour. But this is the Internet, where the anonymity for some reason makes people think it's somehow fine to act in a way that would normally be socially unacceptable.


No. I'm just as rude and obnoxious to people who treat women like crap, or defend people who do, in real life.
 
2014-02-02 12:15:25 PM  

Shakespeare's Sister: I HATE the color pink. My daughter loves it. I let her wear pink because it's just a color, not a statement of politics. Those politics are put on the color by us; the color does not care about anything.

The feminist movement was born, in part, out of the idea that men controlled everything and did not care a damn about women or how that affected them.

Unfortunately, when the feminist movement started changing things, they did to the men what they argued men had done to them: made changes, made demands, and pushed things forward without concern to how this would affect men. They are just as guilty as gendered, limited, and selfish thinking as they stated men were.

I do not buy into this women make X amount of money per hour versus men who make Y per hour for the same job. IF it is true it is because women tend to leave the work world to have babies or take care of family members who are terminal, not because they have vaginas.

I hate that the courts are biased toward women, even when it's clear the woman has no earthly business having the kids. Giving birth make make a woman a mother, but it does not make her a mommy.


Thanks! for This!
The pendulum will swing round again when we realise the feminist system does not work.
It destroys families, kills kids and ruins civilisation.

Whatever it is that nature favors with survival...
Works.
That which vegetates & gets fat,
becomes -Food-
 
2014-02-02 12:15:54 PM  

hardinparamedic: That's all I wanted out of this entire thing was for you to see the kind of people who you were defending. Even a little bit.

Maybe what I just got you will be a small consolation for putting up with me being an asshole these past few posts


I appreciate the gesture.  Make no mistake though, I wasn't defending anyone.  I was raising my experiences as empirical evidence that there is injustice in the archaic system we've adopted for all sides.

I doubt seriously that your posts were educational vehicles though.  You are the extreme polar opposite of those you despise.  No extreme ever has the entire right answer.  Ever.
 
2014-02-02 12:17:45 PM  

AngryDragon: I appreciate the gesture.  Make no mistake though, I wasn't defending anyone.  I was raising my experiences as empirical evidence that there is injustice in the archaic system we've adopted for all sides.

I doubt seriously that your posts were educational vehicles though.  You are the extreme polar opposite of those you despise.  No extreme ever has the entire right answer.  Ever.


If you were not intending to defend them, I apologize for attacking you like that.
 
2014-02-02 12:23:20 PM  

BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.


Gotta stop them when they're young or they may grow up to become traitors to their own vaginas, like Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann.
 
2014-02-02 12:23:57 PM  

hardinparamedic: TwistedFark: This is likely just cheap cover for yourself, I doubt you wanted anyone to get anything out of discourse with you. I'm fairly certain that you did it solely for your own benefit, whatever that was.

Yep. I'm a sociopathic criminal mastermind of internet debate.

My gambit of engaging someone bluntly on a forum known for blunt conversation about topics posted to it is all part of a brilliant plan to do something evil. And Nefarious.


I wouldn't call talking at people debate and  you're certainly not giving anyone anything or trying to change their views, if that was your goal, then not only would you be doing it in a completely different (and effective) way, you would probably actually be addressing what they said instead of stuff you're making up.

I see the entire exercise as you just "taking" something from this form. No idea why, but if I had to wager a guess I'd say that you often have trouble dealing with your emotions, particularly ones that make you feel vulnerable, hence you have a predilection for indulging in what we might call "empowering emotions", like anger, or righteous indignation. All people tend to do this as a coping mechanism as it helps us grapple with the world when we feel powerless inside it. It's not terribly healthy however to rely upon it as a substitute for addressing the fact that we're all vulnerable to some degree or another and need to risk being hurt to truly be able to feel.
 
2014-02-02 12:25:49 PM  

hardinparamedic: meep3d: I don't feel 'persecuted' or 'victimised'. I just think you're rude and obnoxious and using your superiority complex to justify your antisocial behaviour. But this is the Internet, where the anonymity for some reason makes people think it's somehow fine to act in a way that would normally be socially unacceptable.

No. I'm just as rude and obnoxious to people who treat women like crap, or defend people who do, in real life.


I really don't think you are, Mr ITG. And anyway you just plow straight in with the abuse based on your own prejudices and desire to see what you want to see. I've only really said that Feminism alone is not a solution to gender inequality and tried to talk about some real, tangible examples.

Besides, there is no excuse for bad manners. I disagree with you thus can treat you like crap is the basis for the behaviour of sexism and racism. If you are willing to treat people like crap because they deem them 'lesser' then I don't see how you are any different from the people you allegedly oppose.
 
2014-02-02 12:26:54 PM  
Sometimes there is a reason you are at the center of all the troubling situations in your life.  And it's not because you are a bulls eye, but rather a conductor of the symphony.
 
2014-02-02 12:27:10 PM  

TwistedFark: I see the entire exercise as you just "taking" something from this form. No idea why, but if I had to wager a guess I'd say that you often have trouble dealing with your emotions, particularly ones that make you feel vulnerable, hence you have a predilection for indulging in what we might call "empowering emotions", like anger, or righteous indignation. All people tend to do this as a coping mechanism as it helps us grapple with the world when we feel powerless inside it. It's not terribly healthy however to rely upon it as a substitute for addressing the fact that we're all vulnerable to some degree or another and need to risk being hurt to truly be able to feel.


I have my reason for being passionate about being against the MRA movement. No, I will not share them.

I was wrong for attacking AngryDragon like that, I will admit, based on my assumption that he was defending them or their philosophies. But unless you're a psychiatric professional setting right in front of me, please hold off on trying to psychoanalyze me?
 
2014-02-02 12:29:32 PM  

hardinparamedic: If you were not intending to defend them, I apologize for attacking you like that


Thank you.  Apology accepted.
 
2014-02-02 12:30:23 PM  

meep3d: Besides, there is no excuse for bad manners. I disagree with you thus can treat you like crap is the basis for the behaviour of sexism and racism. If you are willing to treat people like crap because they deem them 'lesser' then I don't see how you are any different from the people you allegedly oppose.


You can believe what you like. I don't have to be nice to you when you are defending and espousing something that is offensive to me as a human being, especially when confronted with the evidence you claimed up thread you had no idea the group you're defending represented.


meep3d: I really don't think you are, Mr ITG. And anyway you just plow straight in with the abuse based on your own prejudices and desire to see what you want to see. I've only really said that Feminism alone is not a solution to gender inequality and tried to talk about some real, tangible examples.


No, you linked an article that said nothing what you claimed it did, and then tried to defend the MRA movement's existance based on that.

At least own what you believe in, dude.
 
2014-02-02 12:35:37 PM  
How crazy!  Sparkly pink light-up shoes are great!  I'd buy myself a pair right now if I could find a pair in a ladies size 9.
 
2014-02-02 12:45:04 PM  

JSTACAT: feminist system .. destroys families, kills kids and ruins civilisation.

 
2014-02-02 12:46:24 PM  

hardinparamedic: PawisBetlog: looks like you got some sand in your vagina sugartits...

Well, I can see you failed fourth grade sexual education. ^_^

Since you're new here, allow me to elaborate: People like this are wet dream wank material for MRAs and general idiots, because they serve as living proof of the strawmen they like to construct about feminists.

Warlordtrooper: How many feminists do you know that will argue for equality of men in cases where females have an advantage over males?

You mean the inequality in family court situations which MRAs tend to wank about as the reason they're general pigs to women?


I find it fascinating that you can at the same time write off an actual event that actually happened and was actually caused by an actual feminist as a straw man, yet go on to unironically construct a straw man about what you imagine men's rights advocates to be in order to shift the discussion to a point where you feel you have the upper hand. And you do this without the tiniest shred of self awareness. It's almost like you're a not too bright, hypocritical ideologue who cares more about making your point than about having a fair and open discussion about gender issues.

/feminism is a discriminatory, uterocentric word that precludes the ideas that people other than women can ever be wronged, or that women can wrong other women
//how about humanism instead?
 
2014-02-02 12:51:02 PM  

hardinparamedic: Oh good, another strawman RadFem that everyone can use to claim represents the actual philosophy of Feminism


Just thought I would re-post this gem again because it is hilarious at this point in the thread.
 
2014-02-02 12:57:35 PM  
Children like bright colors. News at 11.
 
2014-02-02 12:57:56 PM  

ghare: Warlordtrooper: BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.

Feminism might be about a lot of things but true equality is not one of them

Thanks for mansplaining that.


Feminism will get as far as men let it, and no further. Enjoy that thought!
 
2014-02-02 12:58:38 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-02 12:59:56 PM  

hardinparamedic: TwistedFark: I see the entire exercise as you just "taking" something from this form. No idea why, but if I had to wager a guess I'd say that you often have trouble dealing with your emotions, particularly ones that make you feel vulnerable, hence you have a predilection for indulging in what we might call "empowering emotions", like anger, or righteous indignation. All people tend to do this as a coping mechanism as it helps us grapple with the world when we feel powerless inside it. It's not terribly healthy however to rely upon it as a substitute for addressing the fact that we're all vulnerable to some degree or another and need to risk being hurt to truly be able to feel.

I have my reason for being passionate about being against the MRA movement. No, I will not share them.

I was wrong for attacking AngryDragon like that, I will admit, based on my assumption that he was defending them or their philosophies. But unless you're a psychiatric professional setting right in front of me, please hold off on trying to psychoanalyze me?


But here you are, making sweeping judgements against others. You refuse to let people draw conclusions about yourself based on things you've said, but feel justified in judging entire groups of people based on what you believe some of them may think.

Irony, thy name is hardinparamedic.
 
2014-02-02 01:04:42 PM  

hardinparamedic: Oh don't stop there. Tell us their sinister agenda.


Equality when it benefits them, gender-based special privileges when it benefits them.   All the benefits, none of the downsides.
 
2014-02-02 01:18:58 PM  
I love mommy-blog threads. It always devolves into a screaming, name calling fight. It's just beautiful to watch.
 
2014-02-02 01:19:52 PM  
There's a certain class of feminist who think a woman has to stop looking and acting like a women to get equality.  This small group is missing the entire point of feminism.  That you can be a woman AND you can be equal.  So put on that tight, short, little black dress and those six inch stilettos and be proud!
 
2014-02-02 01:36:25 PM  
 When will self-hating insecure radfem coonts ever figure out women have the freedom to be a princess if they want to be, right alongside also being a complete badass?
 People like this articles author are the type of knee-jerk idiots that refuse to even cook for themselves because that would 'oppress' them, then talk about being independent and being a whole person. Its as obscene as it is pathetic.


cheaperthandirt.com
 
2014-02-02 01:40:47 PM  

RockofAges: this is how most women actually think

 
2014-02-02 01:45:14 PM  

RockofAges: You nailed it -- this is how most women actually think and is why hardin / Jezebel are the fringers. Just as loony-tunes as true mysogynists, as in reality, they are misandrists.


You're right. I hate my own gender.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-02-02 01:48:18 PM  

Ivan the Tolerable: When will self-hating insecure radfem coonts ever figure out women have the freedom to be a princess if they want to be, right alongside also being a complete badass?
 People like this articles author are the type of knee-jerk idiots that refuse to even cook for themselves because that would 'oppress' them, then talk about being independent and being a whole person. Its as obscene as it is pathetic.


TFA: But that is way too much information for a 3-year-old, so what I say is, "Eva, I love your shoes. They're great. I'm sorry I didn't listen to you the first time."

Who's knee-jerk idiot now?
 
2014-02-02 01:52:28 PM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: 1. They're just shoes.
2. You don't have to buy them.

Signed,
- a feminist


Even though you're a feminist, I'd still bang the crap out of you.
 
2014-02-02 02:00:59 PM  

Ivan the Tolerable: cheaperthandirt.com


A woman who knows proper trigger discipline makes me hot.
 
2014-02-02 02:03:08 PM  
I actually read crap about "patriarchy" and "rape culture" because feminism is the one-track train my daughters are on. My inescapable conclusion:  Feminism is a hypocritical, narrow-minded cult of hate selling gross distortions and attacking anyone who questions them. The movement is dominated by young, white, middle-class women who have never worried about whether they will be allowed to see their children, let alone about food or even air conditioning. They demonize men, teach women to view themselves as victims, and lobby for special privileges.
 
2014-02-02 02:07:47 PM  

hardinparamedic: Oh good, another strawman RadFem that everyone can use to claim represents the actual philosophy of Feminism and dismiss arguments about civil and wage inequality, impropriety in prosecution of rape and abuse cases, and other bullshiat.


I had this argument with another Social Justice Warrior. When the majority of people using your label are batshiat insane, they do represent the base line. Rational feminists (e.g. Lauren Faust) who are willing to call themselves feminists are few and far between. Probably because a lot of these 3rd wavers never had to deal with actual persecution for being a women, they tend to blow shiat out of proportion. For example: that chick on tumblr who makes the posts about guys sitting wrong on trains and how being forced to ask someone if they can move their legs so you can sit down is a tragedy of epic proportions. Or maybe even a violation of her civil rights! Like it or not, that is the face of modern feminism.

/Maybe the feminists should do something about that.
 
2014-02-02 02:13:35 PM  
I hate the vilification of the word "Feminist".

People often attack ideological positions that they don't agree with by acting like furthest out fringe of the group is what their mainstream is made up from. The people that believe in that ideology, that have rational positions, stop identifying with their own cause as a result. Over time, only the fringe element is left.

This happens in politics all the time.

The sad thing is, Feminism is something that almost everyone really should agree with. Most of our society would gladly tell you that they believe in the same things..... but, fewer people than ever would willing use the term "Feminist" to describe themselves. (And even if they do use that word.... they have to immediately explain to you that they aren't like the caricature Feminist that you are familiar with.

I am a 35 year old white guy. I am a Feminist.
 
2014-02-02 02:20:52 PM  

Sammichless: I hate the vilification of the word "Feminist".

People often attack ideological positions that they don't agree with by acting like furthest out fringe of the group is what their mainstream is made up from. The people that believe in that ideology, that have rational positions, stop identifying with their own cause as a result. Over time, only the fringe element is left.

This happens in politics all the time.

The sad thing is, Feminism is something that almost everyone really should agree with. Most of our society would gladly tell you that they believe in the same things..... but, fewer people than ever would willing use the term "Feminist" to describe themselves. (And even if they do use that word.... they have to immediately explain to you that they aren't like the caricature Feminist that you are familiar with.

I am a 35 year old white guy. I am a Feminist.


Well, this certainly explains your Fark handle.
 
2014-02-02 02:22:54 PM  

baconbeard: Sammichless: I hate the vilification of the word "Feminist".

People often attack ideological positions that they don't agree with by acting like furthest out fringe of the group is what their mainstream is made up from. The people that believe in that ideology, that have rational positions, stop identifying with their own cause as a result. Over time, only the fringe element is left.

This happens in politics all the time.

The sad thing is, Feminism is something that almost everyone really should agree with. Most of our society would gladly tell you that they believe in the same things..... but, fewer people than ever would willing use the term "Feminist" to describe themselves. (And even if they do use that word.... they have to immediately explain to you that they aren't like the caricature Feminist that you are familiar with.

I am a 35 year old white guy. I am a Feminist.

Well, this certainly explains your Fark handle.


LOL.
 
2014-02-02 02:30:04 PM  

Zasteva: In my humble opinion, the term "mansplaining" is less offensive than calling someone a radical or saying they are uninterested in equality because "mansplaining" is a jibe at a particular behavior, in this case a specific action of dismissing all of feminism as "not about equality". I thought the "mansplaining" response was a rather mild rebuke of that dismissal.


mansplaining is used to dismiss in entirety the entire MRA and degrade any concerns that a man could possibly have about inequality. It's the feminist equivalent of saying "know your place" and pretending that there is no legitimate sexism against men. It is patronizing at best and dismissive of an entire rights movement. The terms if quite offensive and no better than any other slur. I have never once seen someone use the term who actually cared about equality.
 
2014-02-02 02:46:36 PM  

hardinparamedic: Oh good, another strawman RadFem that everyone can use to claim represents the actual philosophy of Feminism and dismiss arguments about civil and wage inequality, impropriety in prosecution of rape and abuse cases, and other bullshiat.


The problem with your position is you suggest that everyone who has a problem with feminism dismisses it's positions on civil and wage inequality, and impropriety in prosecutions of rape and abuse cases.  However, nothing could be further from the facts.

Consider these questions:

1. Should people be nice to each other?
2. Should everyone preforming the exact same job, for the same company, receive the same compensation?
3. Should rapists be prosecuted?
4. Should people who abuse others be prosecuted?

If you asked 1000 people those questions, you would be hard pressed to find anyone who would answer in the negative.  This is because the affirmative positions are widely held societal beliefs.  As such, they don't define feminism.  It is the positions that differ from widely held societal beliefs that define groups.

Let me give you an example.  A church composed of members who would answer the four aforementioned questions in the affirmative, who believed it wrong to be mean to anyone, might still be very opposed to gay marriage.  They are not defined by the beliefs that they share with the overwhelming majority of society.  They are judged by their absolute oppositions to gay marriage.
 
2014-02-02 02:50:20 PM  

Oblio13: I actually read crap about "patriarchy" and "rape culture" because feminism is the one-track train my daughters are on. My inescapable conclusion:  Feminism is a hypocritical, narrow-minded cult of hate selling gross distortions and attacking anyone who questions them. The movement is dominated by young, white, middle-class women who have never worried about whether they will be allowed to see their children, let alone about food or even air conditioning. They demonize men, teach women to view themselves as victims, and lobby for special privileges.


I have some terrible news for you. I have it on good authority that your "daughters" don't actually exist and instead are mere "straw men" created by the MRA community in an attempt to discredit "True" feminism.

My condolences.
 
2014-02-02 02:51:23 PM  
Out of four daughters and a son:the boy likes pink a lot as a colour. When teased, I tell him to point out:
1) historically PINK was the colour for boys, blue for girls (Victorian times)
2) pink is a faded red with too much white

two girls are girly girl, one semi, one as long as it is mixed with studs and eyeballs and skulls...interesting look:)

TL;DR - doesn't matter

/ all offspring feminists. humanists. pro people. that kind of thing
// noone is better overall, some are better at some things than others, and none of that is gender determined.
 
2014-02-02 02:53:07 PM  

8 inches: God Is My Co-Pirate: 1. They're just shoes.
2. You don't have to buy them.

Signed,
- a feminist

Even though you're a feminist, I'd still bang the crap out of you.


Careful, everyone knows we bite the male's heads off after mating.
 
2014-02-02 02:56:40 PM  
I, for one, have to thank the author.  She has added another data point for my case against the recognition of "women's studies" as an academic field (I refuse to legitimize that contemptible abuse of the education system by referring to it as a "discipline").

She has done a man's job of demonstrating how vapid and intellectually bankrupt feminism is.

Excuse me while I get my 12 year old daughter from her ceramics class and get ready to go shooting with her.
 
2014-02-02 03:02:22 PM  

JeffreyScott: hardinparamedic: Oh good, another strawman RadFem that everyone can use to claim represents the actual philosophy of Feminism and dismiss arguments about civil and wage inequality, impropriety in prosecution of rape and abuse cases, and other bullshiat.

The problem with your position is you suggest that everyone who has a problem with feminism dismisses it's positions on civil and wage inequality, and impropriety in prosecutions of rape and abuse cases.  However, nothing could be further from the facts.

Consider these questions:

1. Should people be nice to each other?
2. Should everyone preforming the exact same job, for the same company, receive the same compensation?
3. Should rapists be prosecuted?
4. Should people who abuse others be prosecuted?

If you asked 1000 people those questions, you would be hard pressed to find anyone who would answer in the negative.  This is because the affirmative positions are widely held societal beliefs.  As such, they don't define feminism.  It is the positions that differ from widely held societal beliefs that define groups.

Let me give you an example.  A church composed of members who would answer the four aforementioned questions in the affirmative, who believed it wrong to be mean to anyone, might still be very opposed to gay marriage.  They are not defined by the beliefs that they share with the overwhelming majority of society.  They are judged by their absolute oppositions to gay marriage.


"hardinparamedic" listed the main ideas that I believe that Feminism is about. I made a post several minutes ago about how almost everybody agrees with Feminist ideas, but only the fringe wants to associate themselves with the term "Feminist".

If I am wrong, and Feminism is an ideology about something else...... then what is it? What, beside gender equality, unites modern Feminists?
 
2014-02-02 03:10:52 PM  
Incidentally, the ironic tag itself is pink.
 
2014-02-02 03:16:09 PM  

hardinparamedic: hasty ambush: Family court, child custody, Obamacare (all that free stuff attached for women's health issues)etc.
Look at child support. In many states DNA evidence can prove a man is not the father of the child  but he  still can get stuck with child support.  When was the last time a woman got stuck paying child support for a child that was not hers?

In every one of those cases, the men who were ordered to pay child support had their names willingly placed on the birth certificate as the legal father of that child. You seem to leave that fact out.

hasty ambush: Look at the whole birth control abortion debate.  for the Feminist the battle cry is my body my business and men should not be making laws about women's bodies.  But when it comes to paying for the consequences of what they do with their bodies  they sure don't object to the concept of male tax payers having to pay for them (Federally funded abortions)

 Here is a hint for you  girls if you use other people's money they are going to want some say so in how it is spent even if it used on your body.  If you are using your own money to engage in your own little form of eugenics feel free to tell them to STFU.

That's an incredibly long winded and idiotic way to tell us you have no clue what you're talking about, since the various Hyde amendments prohibit the federal funding of abortion outside of a court order or medical necessity.

hasty ambush: Look at eh Violence Against Women Act. Not the Violence against domestic partners, shack ups or violence against  people or men act  but Women.

 Special funding for extra prosecution effort and enhanced penlites for violence against the alleged equal gender of female.

It is not about wanting equal treatment but want special treatment and free stuff.

Okay, you can solve this easily.

Give me objective numbers on how many men versus how many women are abused each year in the United States. How many end up in the ER or in hospital because of that abuse? How many end ...


Moreover, would you rather pay 500 dollars for an abortion today or millions in welfare for an unwanted kid?

It takes 2 to tango buddy, just as much the penis' fault as it is the vagina's.

We spend 11 billion a year on unwanted pregnancies:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1388743/Unplanned-pregnancies - cost-tax-payer-11-billion-year.html

This isn't about feminism, it's about saving money and reducing poverty.
 
2014-02-02 03:27:24 PM  
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-02-02 03:28:24 PM  

shortymac: hardinparamedic: hasty ambush: (arguing).....


A recent win for Feminism was changing the laws to allow women on the front line in combat.

I suspect that equality in the draft is not too far behind.

Some of the inequalities mentioned in your posts are meant to show that Feminists are hypocritical. Some of them are. The hypocritical bits isn't what unites feminists however.... It's what tends to divide them.

Feminism is supposed to be about equality (for better or worse).
 
2014-02-02 03:39:21 PM  

Nabb1: Warlordtrooper: In every one of those cases, the men who were ordered to pay child support had their names willingly placed on the birth certificate as the legal father of that child. You seem to leave that fact out.

Unless the man is the biological father (excluding cases where the man is raped)  or he went through an official adoption agency, there is no legitimate reason why he should be on the hook to support a kid.  Placing his name on a piece of paper does not make the kids DNA change so it's his biological kid.

In some states, a child born in marriage is legally presumed to be the child of the husband and even if they divorce and DNA evidence later proves the husband was not the biological father, he cannot avoid child support. That's how it works in Louisiana. Legal acknowledgement of paternity can be very difficult to over come.


it's a law that comes from centuries ago pre-DNA, "the law shall make no one a bastard".

Basically, if you had doubts that the kid was yours, should have said said something at birth.
 
2014-02-02 03:49:43 PM  
Toriko:

Toriko, could you please provide some examples where the only choice a girl (or a woman for that matter) has is different shades of pink?
 
2014-02-02 04:01:15 PM  
Fark you guys.

Finally a feminist type applies rational thinking and comes to an appropriately sane conclusion, and you people rag on her like the's the Devil himself.  She might have had some silly ideas lingering about in her head from her idealistic youth (doesn't everyone), but the important thing is she confronted those ideas, came to the conclusion they were wrong, and then had the nerve to admit it and write about it.

That is what the world needs more of.  I, for one, tip my hat to the author.  More imperfect people like her would make the world a better place.

The rest of you can suck it.
 
2014-02-02 04:04:32 PM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: Careful, everyone knows we bite the male's heads off after mating


That's why I use bite guards and handcuffs.
 
2014-02-02 04:38:03 PM  

baconbeard: Toriko, could you please provide some examples where the only choice a girl (or a woman for that matter) has is different shades of pink?


The joke is taking the phenomenon to the extreme, which is what jokes do but it is pretty frustrating to wander into a toy shop and be told via signs (GIRLS!) and culture that pink is all they want. The same goes for clothes shopping. There might be a few other colours to choose from, but the majority of clothes for girls of a infant to toddler age are pink. Now I agree and practice that at the toy store you can move to the (BOYS!) isle and buy whatever your child wants, but when your child knows they are a girl and they see signs that tell them this is the girls section, and all their friends play with pink things and wear pink clothes because the majority of what is on offer is pink, its almost a self-fulfilling prophesy that girls like pink. I want my child to link pink because she likes pink, not because this is what she sees when she goes to the section of the store that she is told is meant for her.
i.dailymail.co.uk

Now there are much more important things in the world to care about that being faced with this in a toy store, like teaching my child to think for herself and read and write and count and care about other people's feelings and not to spill her goddamned milk all over the couch again. But then again, this is fark, and I posed a comic. I wasn't trying to do anything other than make someone who's seen a toy isle like this chuckle. I'm not oppressed by pink, pink did not kill my father nor touch me in a funny way.
 
2014-02-02 05:14:12 PM  

Toriko: baconbeard: Toriko, could you please provide some examples where the only choice a girl (or a woman for that matter) has is different shades of pink?

The joke is taking the phenomenon to the extreme, which is what jokes do but it is pretty frustrating to wander into a toy shop and be told via signs (GIRLS!) and culture that pink is all they want. The same goes for clothes shopping. There might be a few other colours to choose from, but the majority of clothes for girls of a infant to toddler age are pink. Now I agree and practice that at the toy store you can move to the (BOYS!) isle and buy whatever your child wants, but when your child knows they are a girl and they see signs that tell them this is the girls section, and all their friends play with pink things and wear pink clothes because the majority of what is on offer is pink, its almost a self-fulfilling prophesy that girls like pink. I want my child to link pink because she likes pink, not because this is what she sees when she goes to the section of the store that she is told is meant for her.
[i.dailymail.co.uk image 468x286]

Now there are much more important things in the world to care about that being faced with this in a toy store, like teaching my child to think for herself and read and write and count and care about other people's feelings and not to spill her goddamned milk all over the couch again. But then again, this is fark, and I posed a comic. I wasn't trying to do anything other than make someone who's seen a toy isle like this chuckle. I'm not oppressed by pink, pink did not kill my father nor touch me in a funny way.


A fair and honest answer. Thanks.
 
2014-02-02 05:16:33 PM  

Warlordtrooper: How many feminists do you know that will argue for equality of men in cases where females have an advantage over males?


Cathy Young, there's a few others, but they always seem to be fighting a losing battle in feminist circles.
 
2014-02-02 05:18:55 PM  
Articles like this is why it's harder and harder for people to not roll their eyes at the word "feminism". I'd tell you to stop representing ideas with the dumbest members of the bunch, but that'd cut down on pageclicks.

img.fark.net
 
2014-02-02 06:57:08 PM  

super_grass: Articles like this is why it's harder and harder for people to not roll their eyes at the word "feminism". I'd tell you to stop representing ideas with the dumbest members of the bunch, but that'd cut down on pageclicks.

[img.fark.net image 850x678]


Is that a real TED talk, and if so, do you have a link?
 
2014-02-02 07:08:01 PM  

MrTDGoodrich: Is that a real TED talk, and if so, do you have a link?


Seriously?

It's obviously a joke. It's from http://liartownusa.tumblr.com/
 
2014-02-02 07:15:14 PM  

BarryJV: MrTDGoodrich: Is that a real TED talk, and if so, do you have a link?

Seriously?

It's obviously a joke. It's from http://liartownusa.tumblr.com/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law
 
2014-02-02 07:21:14 PM  

baconbeard: BarryJV: MrTDGoodrich: Is that a real TED talk, and if so, do you have a link?

Seriously?

It's obviously a joke. It's from http://liartownusa.tumblr.com/

stillrealtomedammit.jpg


FTFY
 
2014-02-02 07:22:16 PM  
This is GOLD! From the comment section of TFA:

I wrote a FemPoem in protest of hegemonic patriarchal heteronormativity:

The Phallocratic prison
Dresses young womenfolk in prison pink,
Glittery to make for an easy target
Of rape culture.
We hobble young girls with
Patriarchal shackles,
Pink, glittery slave shackles.
 
2014-02-02 08:37:09 PM  

Witty Comment: While not always the case, it seems to me that children wearing ridiculous clothing is the result of a parent being lazy and not wanting to deal with a tantrum. Yes, allowing children to make choices for themselves and self-identify is definitely necessary to raising a successful well adjusted adult. You also have to teach them to make the right choices. Sweaters and winter clothes in summer is not one of them, and it's your duty to explain *why*. Not because "people will look at you funny" or "people will judge you based on appearances", even though they will and that in itself can be cause of limits in life (news flash: appearances and how you present yourself matters!), but because "you'll get dehydrated if you try and play soccer in a parka. Now get in short sleeves and a t-shirt before I jump down your throat and stomp on your damn liver, asshole. You make daddy want to drink."


I have  a daughter that went through a phaze with shoes. 1 pair were sparkly red capezios that she wanted to sleep in. When I insisted she take them off it was an issue so I let her wear them to bed.. She woke up uncomfortable and her pretty, new sheets were stained from the grass and mud that she had run through the day before.
She figured it out on her own and it was never an issue again.
Consequences=results, etc.
 
2014-02-02 08:58:22 PM  

BarryJV: MrTDGoodrich: Is that a real TED talk, and if so, do you have a link?

Seriously?

It's obviously a joke. It's from http://liartownusa.tumblr.com/


"Anal Candling"

that is... BRILLIANT
 
2014-02-02 09:59:01 PM  

violentsalvation: feckingmorons: Do people actually read slate or is it some type of autoerotic literary outlet for the people who write that drivel?

This is Salon, but it's a fair question here too.


Yeah, slate, salon. Whatever. You guys are bright enough to see the link even if I put the wrong thing.
 
2014-02-02 10:57:19 PM  
I adopted my young nieces and one became a Spider-man/CM Punk loving little girl. The other became a princess. Both are awesome and more importantly, both chose what they liked themselves. My job as their "parent" is merely to introduce the world to them and teach them moral right from wrong. Beyond that, make sure they're fed and clothed and doing healthy things. Not tell them what to like or who to be.
 
2014-02-03 12:27:55 AM  
Again - no mention of feminism in the article.  None.  No F-word.  Not mentioned.
 
2014-02-03 12:29:21 AM  

noitsnot: Again - no mention of feminism in the article.  None.  No F-word.  Not mentioned.


Nobody seems to give a rat fart though.
 
2014-02-03 02:39:24 AM  

willfullyobscure: What i want to know is why this mother is so obviously transphobic and hateful to her proud queer toddler

It's OBVIOUS that her 3 year old daughter is gender self identified as female, and DDDAAARRRRFFFFgooble


Dude.

You troweled that stuff on like about a foot thick.

Subtlety, man, subtlety. It only requires a thin layer of derp.
 
2014-02-03 08:01:07 AM  
Heads-up from the WTFark video team here:

We may do a WTFark video about this submission and may pick one or two comments from this thread to use in the making of the video. If your comment is used, you will be credited (by handle) at the end of the video. If you have a problem with that and want your handle/comment ignored, then please let us know here. Otherwise, we will assume all are fair game.

Here's the way it's gonna work. For each time we use your comment after the first, you get a red star next to your name in those credits. So if we use your comment a second time, your handle will have a red star next to it the second time. The third time we use your comment, you will have two stars. And so on. Accumulate five red stars and you get a gold star next to your handle, a one-of-a-kind Fark.com bar towel and a free month of TotalFark. Accumulate five gold stars and you get a platinum star and an even better prize. Accumulate five platinum stars and you get an even better prize. And so on.

The videos will live in the right sidebar here on fark.com and in their natural habitat on ora.tv/wtfark. Click if you like them. Don't if you don't.

We thank you for your support.

/endit
 
2014-02-03 10:40:32 AM  
My parents wouldn't let my sister have any Barbie stuff because they were not willing to support Barbie in the manner to which she was accustomed.  (Other feminine toys, just not Barbie.)

Some parents object to this stuff because they want their kids to grow up sensible and frugal.  Don't know how well it worked in our case, but they tried.
 
2014-02-03 11:05:08 AM  

Slartibreakfast: hardinparamedic: Slartibreakfast: hardinparamedic: Slartibreakfast: "Mansplaining"... 90% of the time it is used as a feminists way of telling men to sit down, shut up, and learn their place.

You sound incensed that someone would tell you to STFU when talking about something you're blatantly wrong about or trying to spin.

Wow, i must have really struck a nerve to get you so riled up princess.

Why do I have to be "riled up"? Why can't I just rationally point out that your comment makes no sense in the grand scheme of the conversation without taking into account an ulterior motive or agenda?

Seriously, don't be number 2 on the Saddest Internet Argument Techniques.

First of all, i never gave my opinion on the article, just pointed out that some feminists love to always act like victims, doesn't matter if it's real or imagined.

Second, oh fark OFF... there is no rational debate with coonts like you.


So what you're saying is, you don't care what the article says or is about, you just found the thread about it to be a convenient place to air your grievances against an imagined enemy.  Got it.
 
2014-02-03 12:09:48 PM  

Kittypie070: willfullyobscure: What i want to know is why this mother is so obviously transphobic and hateful to her proud queer toddler


It's OBVIOUS that her 3 year old daughter is gender self identified as female, and DDDAAARRRRFFFFgooble


Dude.


You troweled that stuff on like about a foot thick.


Subtlety, man, subtlety. It only requires a thin layer of derp.



It's kind of like performance art

Kittypie070: willfullyobscure: What i want to know is why this mother is so obviously transphobic and hateful to her proud queer toddler


It's OBVIOUS that her 3 year old daughter is gender self identified as female, and DDDAAARRRRFFFFgooble


Dude.


You troweled that stuff on like about a foot thick.


Subtlety,

man, subtlety. It only requires a thin layer of derp.

Why would you purposefully gender me like that in a public forum? What do you know about MY lived experiences??? That's hate speech! I could literally die because of how you misuse language as a weapon, you awful excuse for a human!

You're worse than HITLER!!!!!
 
2014-02-03 12:12:56 PM  

Yogimus: Feminism is a shield weak willed women use to protect themselves against the world.

 
2014-02-03 12:25:27 PM  

devildog123: My wife grew up wearing pinks and purples, and can sing every song Disney has ever produced by heart.  She's also an Army officer with a Combat Action Badge, served with a Field Artillery battalion and an infantry brigade, and does Tough Mudder and Spartan runs for fun.  She still loves pink sparkly stuff, and went with a friend to the Frozen Sing Along last night.  This woman reads way too much into color choices.


eduncovered.com
 
2014-02-03 12:28:22 PM  

Zasteva: Warlordtrooper: ghare: Warlordtrooper: BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.

Feminism might be about a lot of things but true equality is not one of them

Thanks for mansplaining that.

How many feminists do you know that will argue for equality of men in cases where females have an advantage over males?

About half of the women I know who consider themselves feminist would, when confronted with those extremely rare circumstances.

Just for everyone's amusement, why don't you give us some examples of places were you think women have advantages over men.



vttlaw.com

/But you knew that already, didn't you?
 
2014-02-03 12:31:58 PM  

ghare: hardinparamedic: onyxruby: ghare: Thanks for mansplaining that.

Mansplaining is an offensive word, used to degrade anyone that doesn't agree with feminism or questions how it actually deals with equality. It is however quite useful for letting the world know that the person using it is radical with no interest in equality.

Now that. That is riled up. Wow!

Men who have never had a woman show any interest in them are frequently angry little failures.



So that's your excuse?
 
2014-02-03 01:02:53 PM  

Two16: Zasteva: Warlordtrooper: ghare: Warlordtrooper: BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.

Feminism might be about a lot of things but true equality is not one of them

Thanks for mansplaining that.

How many feminists do you know that will argue for equality of men in cases where females have an advantage over males?

About half of the women I know who consider themselves feminist would, when confronted with those extremely rare circumstances.

Just for everyone's amusement, why don't you give us some examples of places were you think women have advantages over men.

[vttlaw.com image 385x261]  [Snazzy picture of Divorce Degree]

/But you knew that already, didn't you?


No, I disagree. I don't see women with any particular advantages in divorce. They do have an advantage in child custody; since society assumes that is a better arrangement for the children. This gives women who want to stay home and raise a child an advantage, but is not advantageous for women who want to pursue a career. In fact, women who decide they want to have the children live with their father and only pay child support and visit occasionally while they pursue their career face far greater judgement from society than a man who makes that decision. Many people will actually consider the man to be a fine an upstanding fellow because he does a good job keeping up with his child support payments and occasionally takes his children to something special; whereas a woman who did the same would be viewed as a cold and unloving toward her children.

Here's a suggestion for how to view societal advantage/disadvantage situations. Switch the roles and see if the perspective society has toward the people changes. If it does, then there is a societal bias.
 
2014-02-03 02:32:14 PM  

hardinparamedic: RockofAges: You nailed it -- this is how most women actually think and is why hardin / Jezebel are the fringers. Just as loony-tunes as true mysogynists, as in reality, they are misandrists.

You're right. I hate my own gender.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x566]


You're kidding, right?  The media is full of all sorts of apologetic, self-flagellating men all seeking to atone for their father's sins at the altar of feminism.  the fact that you are showing the same behaviors as them comes as a shock to no one who has been looking at these patterns.

Also, for the record, the fact that you were falsely accused of rape and STILL hold these views point to two possibilities:

1) you are an SRS troll
2) you are incredibly stupid.

One does not preclude the other, however.
 
2014-02-03 03:05:27 PM  

Zasteva: Two16: Zasteva: Warlordtrooper: ghare: Warlordtrooper: BizarreMan: Talk about a self-hating woman.

So she's okay with her son wearing dresses and pink (if she had one) but her daughter can't.

Feminism might be about a lot of things but true equality is not one of them

Thanks for mansplaining that.

How many feminists do you know that will argue for equality of men in cases where females have an advantage over males?

About half of the women I know who consider themselves feminist would, when confronted with those extremely rare circumstances.

Just for everyone's amusement, why don't you give us some examples of places were you think women have advantages over men.

[vttlaw.com image 385x261]  [Snazzy picture of Divorce Degree]

/But you knew that already, didn't you?

No, I disagree. I don't see women with any particular advantages in divorce. They do have an advantage in child custody; since society assumes that is a better arrangement for the children. This gives women who want to stay home and raise a child an advantage, but is not advantageous for women who want to pursue a career. In fact, women who decide they want to have the children live with their father and only pay child support and visit occasionally while they pursue their career face far greater judgement from society than a man who makes that decision. Many people will actually consider the man to be a fine an upstanding fellow because he does a good job keeping up with his child support payments and occasionally takes his children to something special; whereas a woman who did the same would be viewed as a cold and unloving toward her children.

Here's a suggestion for how to view societal advantage/disadvantage situations. Switch the roles and see if the perspective society has toward the people changes. If it does, then there is a societal bias.



ozreport.com

You're either a troll, wilfully ignorant, or both.
 
2014-02-03 04:03:42 PM  
Two16:

Zasteva: No, I disagree. I don't see women with any particular advantages in divorce. They do have an advantage in child custody; since society assumes that is a better arrangement for the children. This gives women who want to stay home and raise a child an advantage, but is not advantageous for women who want to pursue a career. In fact, women who decide they want to have the children live with their father and only pay child support and visit occasionally while they pursue their career face far greater judgement from society than a man who makes that decision. Many people will actually consider the man to be a fine an upstanding fellow because he does a good job keeping up with his child support payments and occasionally takes his children to something special; whereas a woman who did the same would be viewed as a cold and unloving toward her children.

Here's a suggestion for how to view societal advantage/disadvantage situations. Switch the roles and see if the perspective society has toward the people changes. If it does, then there is a societal bias.


Two16: You're either a troll, wilfully ignorant, or both.


Or neither, unless you consider a troll to be anyone who disagrees with you.

Why don't you explain the advantages women have in divorce (that are not related to custody).
 
2014-02-03 04:17:43 PM  

Zasteva: Two16:

Zasteva: No, I disagree. I don't see women with any particular advantages in divorce. They do have an advantage in child custody; since society assumes that is a better arrangement for the children. This gives women who want to stay home and raise a child an advantage, but is not advantageous for women who want to pursue a career. In fact, women who decide they want to have the children live with their father and only pay child support and visit occasionally while they pursue their career face far greater judgement from society than a man who makes that decision. Many people will actually consider the man to be a fine an upstanding fellow because he does a good job keeping up with his child support payments and occasionally takes his children to something special; whereas a woman who did the same would be viewed as a cold and unloving toward her children.

Here's a suggestion for how to view societal advantage/disadvantage situations. Switch the roles and see if the perspective society has toward the people changes. If it does, then there is a societal bias.


Two16: You're either a troll, wilfully ignorant, or both.

Or neither, unless you consider a troll to be anyone who disagrees with you.

Why don't you explain the advantages women have in divorce (that are not related to custody).



1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-02-03 04:24:21 PM  

Two16: You're either a troll, wilfully ignorant, or both.

Zasteva: Or neither, unless you consider a troll to be anyone who disagrees with you.

Why don't you explain the advantages women have in divorce (that are not related to custody).

Two16: [pict above]


1/10
 
2014-02-03 04:37:45 PM  

Zasteva: Two16: You're either a troll, wilfully ignorant, or both.

Zasteva: Or neither, unless you consider a troll to be anyone who disagrees with you.

Why don't you explain the advantages women have in divorce (that are not related to custody).

Two16: [pict above]

1/10



ttuinder.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-02-03 04:54:52 PM  

JeffreyScott: 1. Should people be nice to each other?


Define "should".   "Is it something they aught to do out of common decency?"    Yes.
"Is it something they should be legally compelled to do?"  No.

2. Should everyone preforming the exact same job, for the same company, receive the same compensation?

No.   Just because you have the same job description as I do, doesn't mean you perform at the same level as I do, or have the same level of experience, or have the same degree of ability.    Superior ability and superior performance commands superior compensation.

3. Should rapists be prosecuted?

Are we talking about actual rape, or consensual drunken sex that you regret when you sober up?   There's a concerted effort on the part of "feminists" to move the goalposts on what counts as rape.

Counter question: should people who make false accusations of rape be prosecuted and face the same penalties as the person they accused?

4. Should people who abuse others be prosecuted?

Define abuse:  historical definition or shifted-goalpost version?    What is the objective standard of what is or isn't "abuse".
 
2014-02-03 04:56:20 PM  

Zasteva: Why don't you explain the advantages women have in divorce (that are not related to custody).


Alimony.
 
2014-02-03 05:32:54 PM  

clyph: Are we talking about actual rape, or consensual drunken sex that you regret when you sober up?   There's a concerted effort on the part of "feminists" to move the goalposts on what counts as rape.


Actually, there is a concerted effort on the part of feminists to get people to understand that you need to get consent for something to be consensual.

If you are having drunken sex with someone you don't know, or haven't already had non-drunken consensual sex with, then your drunken sex is not "consensual"; because a person who's judgement is impaired cannot give consent. If you don't want to risk getting slapped with rape charges, then don't do something that someone may later regret.

Yes, this is kind of moving the goalposts; it's about understanding what consent really is, and what it isn't. Not leaving it as "she didn't fight and struggle and scream 'no'" so it must have been okay.

Counter question: should people who make false accusations of rape be prosecuted and face the same penalties as the person they accused?


People who make false accusations are already subject to arrest and prosecution. Depending on the locale and circumstances the perjury charge may actually carry a greater penalty than the particular charges the wrongly accused faced.

But again, to be clear drunken sex is sex without consent; so unless you have consent prior to getting her drunk, those aren't false charges.
 
2014-02-03 05:35:36 PM  

clyph: Zasteva: Why don't you explain the advantages women have in divorce (that are not related to custody).

Alimony.


Men can get alimony, and increasingly are:

http://www.forbes.com/2007/03/13/women-paying-alimony-lead_cx_pink_0 31 3alimony.html
 
2014-02-03 07:12:46 PM  
And the man does have a choice.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 623x623]

Hell. If you're too cheap, you can get them from your local health department for free.


...so why do we need public funds to pay for oral contraceptives/abortions?  I mean, I assume these local health departments will give these prophylactics away to women for free, too.

/Unlike the pill/abortions, they protect against STDs, too - and since I hear this is about "women's health," condoms are the preferred form of birth control, right?
 
2014-02-03 07:53:17 PM  

baconbeard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law


There's no doubt that could be Jezebel's business strategy, they'd just never do a TED talk admitting it.
 
2014-02-03 07:56:06 PM  

Zasteva: Actually, there is a concerted effort on the part of feminists to get people to understand that you need to get consent for something to be consensual.


If both parties are drunk, are both parties rapists?
 
Displayed 332 of 332 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter








In Other Media
  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report