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(Slate)   Don't just assume she's guilty. We all know the Italian Justice system is insane   (slate.com) divider line 140
    More: Asinine, Amanda Knox, Italian Justice, Italians, country legal systems, Perugia, Italian Court, African immigrants, miscarriage of justice  
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11216 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Feb 2014 at 3:28 PM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-01 06:52:28 PM

walktoanarcade: phrawgh: Until Amanda Knox is extradited, mail for American soldiers in Italy is being held hostage!

http://www.stripes.com/news/italy-begins-charging-taxes-and-duties-o n- us-military-mail-1.264743 Deeesa cry-sus!!!     (I am so sorry)

[apexfanproductions.files.wordpress.com image 732x412]


I don't like you much at all, but that was kinda funny.
 
2014-02-01 06:53:32 PM

Boojum2k: walktoanarcade: phrawgh: Until Amanda Knox is extradited, mail for American soldiers in Italy is being held hostage!

http://www.stripes.com/news/italy-begins-charging-taxes-and-duties-o n- us-military-mail-1.264743 Deeesa cry-sus!!!     (I am so sorry)

[apexfanproductions.files.wordpress.com image 732x412]

I don't like you much at all, but that was kinda funny.


Well, it's a start! :)
 
2014-02-01 07:08:16 PM

Boojum2k: phrawgh: Until Amanda Knox is extradited, mail for American soldiers in Italy is being held hostage!

http://www.stripes.com/news/italy-begins-charging-taxes-and-duties-o n- us-military-mail-1.264743

Close the bases, bring them home. That way Italy isn't incurring those expenses that are suddenly requiring a tax.


Are you kidding. That's a lot of plane tickets versus just one in the other direction.

Just so you all understand the seriousness of this fiasco,
Mailed items that could be taxed:

Roasted ground coffee and surrogates.
Master keys and utensils for combination locks
Plants and soil
Lottery tickets of any kind.
Slot machines or parts thereof
Albums of any kind (for photographs, postcards, stamps, etc.)
Artificial fruit and flowers and accessories for the same
Bells and other musical instruments and parts thereof.
Capsules and cartridges
Clocks and watches supplies
Coins, banknotes and paper values
Corals mounted of any kind.
Ether and chloroform
Photographic and cinematographic films exposed
Footwear of all kinds
Apparel and sewn clothing of every kind.
Hair and hair product
Products in leather
Nutmeg, vanilla, sea salt, mineral salt and saffron
Playing cards of any type
Postage stamps in letters open or closed
Typewriter Ribbons
Saccharine
Salted meat, smoked, or otherwise prepared
Toys which are not exclusively made of wood
Skins and furs, treated
 
2014-02-01 07:09:13 PM

a21ozcoldcup: Doesn't matter, she is still super hot.


I don't get the attraction. Don't get me wrong she's not hideous, but there's something "off" about her face that I can't pin down.
 
2014-02-01 07:16:59 PM

phrawgh: That's a lot of plane tickets versus just one in the other direction.


We'd save money on operating costs for those bases, so we'd win out in the short and long term.
 
2014-02-01 07:20:51 PM

Rapmaster2000: Well, let's be honest, you're likely an upper-middle class, educated person with educated friends


That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said about me.
 
2014-02-01 07:33:27 PM

Boojum2k: phrawgh: That's a lot of plane tickets versus just one in the other direction.

We'd save money on operating costs for those bases, so we'd win out in the short and long term.


The military has a particular skill at making base closures and consolidations phenomenally expensive.
 
2014-02-01 07:35:08 PM

OgreMagi: Threaten to close a few military bases in Italy. The local economies where they are located would collapse.

/I'm all for closing those bases without even considering the Knox case


Just Italy, or overseas bases in particular?

/Italy is a coveted assignment, despite the mafia polluted groundwater...
 
2014-02-01 07:38:18 PM
Thank god the US government can't appeal a "not guilty" verdict. Our system has myriad problems, but at least that horror is not one.
 
2014-02-01 07:58:06 PM

Doktor_Zhivago: Gecko Gingrich: Yes. *You* can appeal your guilty verdict. *The Government* cannot appeal your innocent verdict.

I was referring the idea in the article that people in the US somehow never get retried after an appeal. The whole purpose of appealing a guilty verdict is usually to get a new trial as appeals courts don't usually just throw out verdicts and let you walk free

The italian court system is still retarded.


The best outcome of an appeal, for the appellant, is for the appellate court to vacate the trial court's decision, not for it to remand the appeal back down to the trial court. When the decision is vacated, then yes, the appellant walks.

Did you get your law-talkin' degree from Hollywood Upstairs Law School?
 
2014-02-01 08:00:56 PM

95BV5: Doktor_Zhivago: Gecko Gingrich: Yes. *You* can appeal your guilty verdict. *The Government* cannot appeal your innocent verdict.

I was referring the idea in the article that people in the US somehow never get retried after an appeal. The whole purpose of appealing a guilty verdict is usually to get a new trial as appeals courts don't usually just throw out verdicts and let you walk free

The italian court system is still retarded.

The best outcome of an appeal, for the appellant, is for the appellate court to vacate the trial court's decision, not for it to remand the appeal back down to the trial court. When the decision is vacated, then yes, the appellant walks.

Did you get your law-talkin' degree from Hollywood Upstairs Law School?


No,

padresteve.files.wordpress.com
Denny Crane
 
2014-02-01 08:22:13 PM
The truly scary thing is that this is the kind of thing that happens to poor people and minorities in the US, but not to white people. The fact that Italy's justice system is equal-opportunity unfair rather than just anti-minority and anti-poor unfair is rather startling to me as a middle-class white American. Remind me to stay away from Italy.
 
2014-02-01 08:22:25 PM

Voiceofreason01: no, the Italian justice system is hopelessly corrupt. There's a difference.


i1211.photobucket.com

I enjoyed the article, it's clear she's innocent, especially since they already have someone in custody. Fark Italy.
 
2014-02-01 08:31:06 PM

Rapmaster2000: If you want to amuse yourself, or perhaps be concerned, check out the comments regarding this on British tabloids.  America is basically a land of violent criminals who are also rich and arrogant and you can never trust them to tell the truth and they think they run the whole planet and no real Brit would ever visit such a horrible place.  It gives you a window into why no amount of evidence (or lack thereof) will change the mind of some people.  Someone has to pay for the death of one of their own, and if you're convinced about the way "those people" are it's pretty easy to assume she did it.

/not accusing every British person of being like this


This, coming from the folks whose country used to "run the whole world", is rather ironic.


/ and furthermore, dentistry
 
2014-02-01 08:41:00 PM
"This part of the Knox story-that she was a pretty, unapologetic party girl-seems to have worked against Knox from the start, even though it has nothing to do with the case. "

No shiat? Of course it did. How does anyone think otherwise? That's how our world works--if you're female, you can win a Nobel Peace Prize and the announcer will bring up that you kissed a boy in high school you aren't married to. Was this a surprise to someone?
 
2014-02-01 08:51:02 PM
Stupid girl goes to Italy and acts like it's a giant Disney Small World amusement park and gets burned when she chooses her company poorly. Coulda been worse.

But the Italians have farked the dog on this.
They need to give it a rest.
 
2014-02-01 08:53:57 PM

Autistic Hiker: RenownedCurator: She's paid for it.

Amanda Knox wrote a book about her travails.  If it made any money, Patrice Lumumba should get it.


If anyone owes Lumumba anything, it's the police who badgered and yelled at Knox until she "confessed" to his involvement. They're the ones who farked him over, not her. Whatever she's made on her book, I doubt it will cover the legal bills which, thanks to this idiotic reversal, are still going to be coming in for a while.
 
2014-02-01 09:25:47 PM

The Dog Ate My Homework: The truly scary thing is that this is the kind of thing that happens to poor people and minorities in the US, but not to white people. The fact that Italy's justice system is equal-opportunity unfair rather than just anti-minority and anti-poor unfair is rather startling to me as a middle-class white American. Remind me to stay away from Italy.


If you can point me to one recent case where a poor and/or minority defendant was found not-guilty in a criminal case, and the state appealed the verdict, I'll eat the entire opinion with cream cheese.

Please bear in mind the following:

1. Being found not-guilty in a criminal case and then being taken to court in a CIVIL case on related facts is not the same thing;
2. Being fount not-guilty in state court and then being charged in FEDERAL court on related facts is not the same thing;
3. A plaintiff in a civil case has the option of appealing the verdict in a civil case, which is not the same thing.
 
2014-02-01 09:28:54 PM
If the Italians go for extradition, this could be fun.
 
2014-02-01 10:09:33 PM

Bungles: "This, of course, would never happen in a U.S. court, where the Constitution forbids suspects from being repeatedly retried."


Well this is clearly a well researched article...

/it's the same trial, she was previously found "Guilty: Pending appeal" and "Acquitted: Pending appeal. She's currently "Guilty: pending appeal".
//it has multiple levels of appeal... it's the same trial.
///there's one layer of appeal left. She still hasn't been declared guilty/not guilty in finality.
////it's like saying the verdict and sentencing are "separate trials" just because the US does them separately. They aren't and no-one in the US would consider them to be, just like few in Italy would consider these separate trials.


Except for the distinction that the "Acquitted" verdict was decided explicitly on the basis that the prosecution's case didn't come even remotely close to proving her guilt.  By explicitly, I mean that's the official reason given by the judge and the jury as to why they acquitted her.  In the US, if that happens then the case is done, dead, toast, kaput, never to return again.  The prosecution does not get a do-over (99% of the time) unless there was some procedural issue, and "our case sucked" is not a procedural issue.

In other words, the statement is not inaccurate.  In the US court system this case would have been done and over.


Boojum2k: I cannot remember the name of the author, but one mentioned he was writing about a crime that had happened recently in Italy, and after doing some research went to interview the local prosecutor, who decided that this American who knew so much about the crime must be a suspect and threatened to have him held.


Douglas Preston, and the book is called The Monster of Florence.

If I remember right, the prosecutor who did said threatening was involved in the Knox case as well.  Just in case you needed another reason to think the case is a load of bullshiat.

/Another possible reason: the prosecutor using the phrase "marijuana-fueled satanic orgy" with a straight face during the trial.
 
2014-02-01 10:24:22 PM

yukichigai: Douglas Preston, and the book is called The Monster of Florence.


That was it. His article about it, plus the conviction of the scientists who failed to predict an earthquake made me realize that the Italian justice system is batshiat insane.
 
2014-02-01 10:35:39 PM

aerojockey: People.  Slate Magazine is writing an article that basically agrees with the U-S-A U-S-A crowd.  If that doesn't convince you how bad their case is, I don't know what will.


This is actually more relevant than "I work her pro boner"

Amanda Knox is still being railroaded. The US would be committing treason if they sent her back to Italy
 
2014-02-01 10:37:23 PM
I don't know that.  I've never been to Italy.
 
2014-02-01 10:40:49 PM

o'really: OgreMagi: Threaten to close a few military bases in Italy. The local economies where they are located would collapse.

/I'm all for closing those bases without even considering the Knox case

Just Italy, or overseas bases in particular?

/Italy is a coveted assignment, despite the mafia polluted groundwater...


I want us to close most military bases around the world and that we stop being the world's police.   Europe had money to spend on their social programs because they didn't need a military because of our presence.  In other words, we paid for their stuff.  It's time they handled their own security because we are broke.  And the next time some asshole with a funny hat invades a country and they beg us for help, the first thing we should say is "what's in it for us?"

A few countries realize the value of our bases, and not just from a security standpoint.  Poland begged us to put a base in their country.  They knew how much of a boost to the local economy it would generate.  I think they charged us a dollar for the lease (not sure about that, though).
 
2014-02-02 12:15:07 AM

SN1987a goes boom: karmaceutical: They may be corrupt or crazy... but at least they can get a conviction.  What would have happened if OJ, Casey Anthony, or ZImmerman were tried in Italy?  A lot less clicks for Fark, that's what.

It convicts both types of people, country and western innocent and guilty.


Well, they may convict a lot of innocent people, but at least their overzealous prosecution means that all the criminals in Italy are safely behind bars.
 
2014-02-02 12:25:53 AM

Voiceofreason01: no, the Italian justice system is hopelessly corrupt. There's a difference.


I just assume that most people from the Mediterranean are only pseudo people. They have not innate sense of justice or fairness. Only self-interest and inbred family matters. fark them all. They are no better than Middle Easterners.
 
2014-02-02 01:05:04 AM

El Dudereno: Rapmaster2000: If you want to amuse yourself, or perhaps be concerned, check out the comments regarding this on British tabloids.  America is basically a land of violent criminals who are also rich and arrogant and you can never trust them to tell the truth and they think they run the whole planet and no real Brit would ever visit such a horrible place.  It gives you a window into why no amount of evidence (or lack thereof) will change the mind of some people.  Someone has to pay for the death of one of their own, and if you're convinced about the way "those people" are it's pretty easy to assume she did it.

/not accusing every British person of being like this

This, coming from the folks whose country used to "run the whole world", is rather ironic.


/ and furthermore, dentistry


Well, to be fair, Italy had their turn at running the whole world too. Well, the whole Western world - the technology didn't exist to rule much bigger than that under one leadership at the time.
 
2014-02-02 01:14:31 AM
That's nothing, you should trying being in the Dominican Republic justice system.
 
jvl
2014-02-02 01:28:08 AM

incendi: Wasn't it an Italian court that convicted some scientists for not predicting an earthquake, or something silly along those lines?


Not really. The scientists corruptly made a claim that there was no chance of an aftershock and everyone should back and live in the dangerous buildings.
 
2014-02-02 01:30:24 AM

jvl: incendi: Wasn't it an Italian court that convicted some scientists for not predicting an earthquake, or something silly along those lines?

Not really. The scientists corruptly made a claim that there was no chance of an aftershock and everyone should back and live in the dangerous buildings.


That's a negative:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/italy-abruzzo-earthquake-s ci entist-trial/
 
2014-02-02 07:10:24 AM
I find it hard to believe that you can live somewhere unawares that there's a dead body under the couch. For the rest I have no stick in this fire, but I must say I find it amusing to see how BFF's USA and the UK are at odds with each other over this. We get it, she's white and attractive. Lines must be drawn.
 
2014-02-02 07:29:46 AM
I wish more of the news stories talked about Knox's timeline in Italy.  The prosecutions theory of what happened becomes even more insane once you realize how short of time Knox had actually been in Italy, how short of time her and Sollecito had been dating, and how little of a connection she had to Guede.

1. Knox went to Italy in September.  The murder happened lass than two months later on November 1st.
2. Knox and Sollecito started dating in October.  By some accounts they had only been together about one week when the murder happened.
3. Knox had no friendship or established communication with Guede.  She was introduced to Guede when he came to her flat to visit the two male roommates that lived with her and Kercher, but there's no evidence that she knew anything about Guede beyond such an introduction.

For the prosecution's theories too be true, you'd have to assume that Knox, who had only been in Italy for two months, and didn't speak good Italian at all, somehow convinced a boyfriend of one week, and a near total stranger, to join with her in murdering a roommate that she had only known for less than two months.  Complete nonsense.
 
2014-02-02 08:16:11 AM
I know nothing about the Italian courts.

I did come here for more foxy knoxy pics and so far I am leaving disappoint.
 
2014-02-02 09:15:17 AM

Rapmaster2000: If you want to amuse yourself, or perhaps be concerned, check out the comments regarding this on British tabloids.  America is basically a land of violent criminals who are also rich and arrogant and you can never trust them to tell the truth and they think they run the whole planet and no real Brit would ever visit such a horrible place.  It gives you a window into why no amount of evidence (or lack thereof) will change the mind of some people.  Someone has to pay for the death of one of their own, and if you're convinced about the way "those people" are it's pretty easy to assume she did it.

/not accusing every British person of being like this


Hey, hey, now... we're not all rich.
 
2014-02-02 09:16:17 AM

snorkblaster: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 468x528]
Ummm... OK, not guilty


This.  Have her bathed, searched for weapons, and brought to my quarters.
 
2014-02-02 10:59:49 AM

jvl: incendi: Wasn't it an Italian court that convicted some scientists for not predicting an earthquake, or something silly along those lines?

Not really. The scientists corruptly made a claim that there was no chance of an aftershock and everyone should back and live in the dangerous buildings.


Hmm, you know how I know you're talking out your ass?
 
2014-02-02 12:54:56 PM

Coming on a Bicycle: I find it hard to believe that you can live somewhere unawares that there's a dead body under the couch. For the rest I have no stick in this fire, but I must say I find it amusing to see how BFF's USA and the UK are at odds with each other over this. We get it, she's white and attractive. Lines must be drawn.


It's more the US and Italy, to be fair. The UK is oddly clam about the whole thing. The tabloids are not as excited about it to anywhere near the hysterical levels they usually are about this sort of thing.

It's no Madeline McCann on the Everyone Has an Opinion stakes in the UK. Most wouldn't even recognise the her name.
 
2014-02-02 12:56:59 PM
I didn't mean oddly clam.

Freudian slip, ahem.
 
2014-02-02 01:30:41 PM
Maybe, just maybe, she is a sociopathic sadistic lesbian sex murderer and shouldn't be running around loose in Seattle.

Just sayin'
 
2014-02-02 01:43:55 PM

oovah: Maybe, just maybe, she is a sociopathic sadistic lesbian sex murderer and shouldn't be running around loose in Seattle.


I thought that was a sizable demographic in Seattle?
 
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