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(Slate)   Don't just assume she's guilty. We all know the Italian Justice system is insane   ( slate.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Amanda Knox, Italian Justice, Italians, country legal systems, Perugia, Italian Court, African immigrants, miscarriage of justice  
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11305 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Feb 2014 at 3:28 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-01 04:16:57 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: Gecko Gingrich: Doktor_Zhivago: If a US appeals court declares you get a new trial during your appeals process you get a new trial. There's not really a difference here.

Yes. *You* can appeal your guilty verdict. *The Government* cannot appeal your innocent verdict.

But the family of the victim can sue in civil court, and if the State doesn't get a conviction, the Feds can try the case (and vice versa).


Negative. They can try on different charges, but not the same one.
 
2014-02-01 04:18:38 PM  
I cannot remember the name of the author, but one mentioned he was writing about a crime that had happened recently in Italy, and after doing some research went to interview the local prosecutor, who decided that this American who knew so much about the crime must be a suspect and threatened to have him held.
 
2014-02-01 04:20:34 PM  

Torok: <strong><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/8125460/89047279#c89047279" target="_blank">Some Coke Drinking Guy</a>:</strong> <em>Amanda Knox and her boyfriend are extremely good suspects in the murder case.  They may have actually even done it.  That said, there is a big gulf between reasonable suspicion, which the Italians do have in this case, and actual damning evidence that shows she is guilty, which they seem to be missing.

From our own ethics, on this side of the pond, there exist things like, reasonable doubt, double jeopardy, and prosecution ethics, that do not seem to be universal in regards to the Italian system.  If she actually did play a hand in her room mates death, than I wish to hell that the Italians could have done a better job establishing that guilt.  If she truly innocent, then I wish they would leave her in peace.</em>


They may have had reasonable suspicion initially but that suspicion is no longer valid as no physical evidence against them exists.


idk her ex-boyfiend style choices are questionable. Has a jeffrey dahmer vibe to it.
 
2014-02-01 04:23:25 PM  
If you think the U.S. media is batstink crazy, check out the Italian papers sometime. We returned from a month in Campania a few weeks ago, and so far, this place appears normal to me.

/won't last
 
2014-02-01 04:26:18 PM  

rico567: you think the U.S. media is batstink crazy, check out the Italian papers sometime. We returned from a month in Campania a few weeks ago, and so far, this place appears normal to me.


Italy is the Florida of Europe.
 
2014-02-01 04:29:50 PM  
People.  Slate Magazine is writing an article that basically agrees with the U-S-A U-S-A crowd.  If that doesn't convince you how bad their case is, I don't know what will.
 
2014-02-01 04:30:26 PM  

BalugaJoe: She is totally guilty.


She's only guilty of being guilty.
 
2014-02-01 04:32:42 PM  

ultraholland: I'd represent her pro boner.


Ipsi dicks it!
 
2014-02-01 04:33:17 PM  

namatad: AND never ever talk to the health people about HIV without a lawyer.


Okay, I'll ask. Why not?
 
2014-02-01 04:35:20 PM  
So, here's what I learnt from the Amanda Knox trail.

Hot white girl gets screwed by a corrupt justice system. Endless media panic.

Millions of mainly poor, mainly non-white men languish in US prisons, screwed by a corrupt justice system. *crickets*
 
2014-02-01 04:35:56 PM  

Doktor_Zhivago: FTA: "This, of course, would never happen in a U.S. court, where the Constitution forbids suspects from being repeatedly retried. "

Wut

If a US appeals court declares you get a new trial during your appeals process you get a new trial. There's not really a difference here.


Gotta love average people. The only people more clueless about reality are reporters: they feel that they can print anything and it magically becomes truth for everyone everywhere.
 
2014-02-01 04:36:15 PM  

Bad_Seed: So, here's what I learnt from the Amanda Knox trail.

Hot white girl gets screwed by a corrupt justice system. Endless media panic.

Millions of mainly poor, mainly non-white men languish in US prisons, screwed by a corrupt justice system. *crickets*


Pretty much.
 
2014-02-01 04:36:27 PM  

Bad_Seed: Millions of mainly poor, mainly non-white men languish in US prisons, screwed by a corrupt justice system. *crickets*


Well, a certain percentage of those millions, anyway.
 
2014-02-01 04:38:39 PM  
i.dailymail.co.uk
Ummm... OK, not guilty
 
2014-02-01 04:40:50 PM  

uncoveror: Amanda Knox is only guilty of being an American. They let gangsters who murder toddlers run amok, but try to frame US college students. A picture of Italy should be next to the word corruption in the dictionary.


Poor Raffaele Sollecito. Not only does he not have a foreign country to hide in, he doesn't even make it into the narrative.
 
2014-02-01 04:41:38 PM  

Bacontastesgood: I stayed away from this story for years because it looked like tabloid crap.  Finally did some reading about the details and holy crap, how could anyone conclude she and her boyfriend had anything to do with it?  This wouldn't even be brought before a grand jury in the US.  There's simply no evidence, just fantasy and prosecutorial misconduct.

And yet news accounts are still written with horribly misleading bits like "she said she was at the apartment covering her ears so she wouldn't hear the screams".  Basically they interrogated her Frank Pembleton style and got her to "imagine" how it might have gone down with her there.


The guy who actually killed the roommate has been caught and convicted and is serving his (ridiculously light) sentence for it, but because Knox and her boyfriend kissed in public and she didn't appear in black with a cloud of depression over her head the Italian media went insane. That the prosecutor himself is actually insane didn't help any.

Amanda Knox and her boyfriend had exactly *zero* to do with the crime, and she simply needs to never step foot out of America again. The boyfriend, as an Italian citizen, is farked.
 
2014-02-01 04:43:50 PM  

ultraholland: I'd represent her pro boner.


And all that dirty Satan talk, and speaking in tongues, and basically getting as freaky deaky as you want is pretty much bonus across the board.
 
2014-02-01 04:45:27 PM  
All you gots to do is take a nice drive out in the beautiful Tuscan hills amidst the rolling green lush meadows, hand crafted artisan cheeses and wines and dodge all the Eastern European prostitutes lining the roadsides .. out in the beautiful Tuscan hills, nearly literally throwing their wares at you and  understand some twisted old f*ck of an Italian is beating them regularly for not bringing back enough Lira every day. Those Eastern European girls didn't just magically appear  right there. Someone forced them there. Someone protects the investment. And some decrepit Italian f*ck is cosy with the right highly placed Italian old f*ck magistrates to avoid having his whore-business ruined.

Beautiful breath taking country.

Lined with hookers. And the Italian 'Just-Us' system of corrupt magistrates look the other way for that, but let's toss away the key for Amanda Knox?

Uh-huh
 
2014-02-01 04:46:02 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Slaxl: Rapmaster2000: If you want to amuse yourself, or perhaps be concerned, check out the comments regarding this on British tabloids.  America is basically a land of violent criminals who are also rich and arrogant and you can never trust them to tell the truth and they think they run the whole planet and no real Brit would ever visit such a horrible place.  It gives you a window into why no amount of evidence (or lack thereof) will change the mind of some people.  Someone has to pay for the death of one of their own, and if you're convinced about the way "those people" are it's pretty easy to assume she did it.

/not accusing every British person of being like this

Nonsense, I've never seen or heard anything like that, except in Youtube comments. While I don't read tabloids, and I suggest you stop, I don't know a single person who thinks Knox did it, and pretty much everyone is supportive of her and thinks the Italian system is wrong.

It would sadden me if I was in the minority.

And I'll add, none of my friends think the Muslims are going to establish Sharia Law in America, but it's apparently a legitimate concern among some of the people in places like Kansas and Tennessee as evidenced by the attempts of some of those area's lawmakers.


No, those area's lawmakers are just pandering to the lowest of the low, the far-right of the right-wingers.  Upon election campaign time, they will use the law they passed in several ways.
1. Flat out pointing to the blacks and telling their white constituents they are saving them from the muslims, who are taking over their country
2. Pointing to the latinos and telling their black constituents they are keeping the immigrants out of the country, away from the jobs they hold.  Not recognizing the irony, either
3. pointing to the white people and telling them the incursion of muslims are rampant and must be stopped at all costs.

then they'll skip over Lawrence KS entirely, because the average education level is much higher there, and the Democrats are in charge of most of the councils

lived there for years: friend made a tshirt that had the state on it, colored red for republican and blue for Dems, with the 2nd Bush "victory" results by county.  The Douglas county(Lawrence, basically) was the lone blue spot in the entire state.
 
2014-02-01 04:49:16 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: All you gots to do is take a nice drive out in the beautiful Tuscan hills amidst the rolling green lush meadows, hand crafted artisan cheeses and wines and dodge all the Eastern European prostitutes lining the roadsides .. out in the beautiful Tuscan hills, nearly literally throwing their wares at you and understand some twisted old f*ck of an Italian Albanian is beating them regularly for not bringing back enough Lira Euros every day. Those Eastern European girls didn't just magically appear right there. Someone forced them there. Someone protects the investment. And some decrepit Italian f*ck is cosy with the right highly placed Italian old f*ck magistrates to avoid having his whore-business ruined.


FTFY.

Prostitution is not illegal in Italy. And proving trafficking charges is a biatch. The girls hardly ever cooperate with the police.
 
2014-02-01 04:49:28 PM  

vpb: The problem is that there was no evidence.  The prosecution even had a totally new theory of what happened.  This case sounds like something out of Texas.


I'm sitting in Texas currently waiting for my connecting flight. This entire case is bizarre to me and, the legal system no matter where you are is Farked.
I can't get out of here soon enough.

/ex is from Texas
 
2014-02-01 04:49:48 PM  
Knox is probably innocent. She also tried to throw that bartender under the bus to save herself. So I have difficulty mustering sympathy for her.
 
2014-02-01 04:50:52 PM  

Rapmaster2000: [serialkillersink.net image 390x229]
Geraldo covered this stuff 30 years ago.


nostalgiad hard
 
2014-02-01 04:56:07 PM  

snorkblaster: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 468x528]
Ummm... OK, not guilty


She needs to be punished in some manner.  Bring her to me, I've got some ideas.  Don't worry, I'll be firm, but gentle.
 
2014-02-01 04:59:34 PM  
Help me. I agreed with a Slate article.

I feel dirty.
 
2014-02-01 05:02:34 PM  

Oblio13: Knox is probably innocent. She also tried to throw that bartender under the bus to save herself. So I have difficulty mustering sympathy for her.


I don't have a problem being sympathetic. It's not like she just waltzed in and decided to say "Hey, it was him!" for fun. She was being screamed at and interrogated about the message she'd texted to the bar owner, the police were insisting that he must be involved, until she finally repeated their story back to them. Later, of course, it turned out there were a bunch of witnesses to his being somewhere else and it became Knox's fault that she let herself be bullied into repeating the police's story. (Admittedly, this is Knox's version -- but having been slapped around by European police myself when they decided that I was "lying" about what I was doing and were going to scream and hit the "truth" out of me, I believe it. Furthermore, the interview was mysteriously not taped, although their own rules said it should have been).

This is one of the many things that drives me nuts about the Knox case -- the "she framed the bar owner", or, to make it extra bad, "she tried to frame a black guy for it." Here's the thing. If Knox is innocent, and she decided totally of her own volition to frame the bar owner, that would be a scummy thing to do. HOWEVER, she has already served several years in jail, three of which were for her "calumny" of the guy. She's paid for it. If, however, she was guilty and wanted to do a Susan Smith and throw the blame on a black guy -- why in the name of heaven would she not tell them about the actual black guy, Rudy Guede, who was there and whose DNA was flooding the place and was also inside Meredith's body? Why would she feel such a strong need to protect this guy she barely knew that she would never so much as mention his name? The answer isn't hard to figure out -- she wasn't there, and she didn't know.

/apologies for the rant, but I keep seeing this "she tried to frame someone" thing and it's so divorced from the context that it becomes meaningless.
 
2014-02-01 05:04:37 PM  
Hat tip to Giant Clown Shoe /strong> who posted this in the other thread.

Better reasons why she's not guilty: http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI2.html
 
2014-02-01 05:05:06 PM  
Well, there might be a Fark thread every time she's either acquitted or convicted, but if she ever does porn, it'll be a ball.
 
2014-02-01 05:13:19 PM  
RenownedCurator: She's paid for it.

Amanda Knox wrote a book about her travails.  If it made any money, Patrice Lumumba should get it.
 
2014-02-01 05:14:13 PM  

Autistic Hiker: RenownedCurator: She's paid for it.

Amanda Knox wrote a book about her travails.  If it made any money, Patrice Lumumba should get it.


He doesn't need the money, he's dead. The CIA killed him.
 
2014-02-01 05:22:03 PM  
-At times like this- one could wish for a truth serum interview, or a good lie detector series.
Many people have said she looks/acts guilty.... in subsequent interviews on tv.
Why doesn't she volunteer for lie detector & settle this??

there are a lot of people in the us who are doing time for murder, because they were present in the car, in the room, etc, assisting , covering evidence, etc.

Something about the charges may have been lost in translation or journalistic frenzy.
it is possible the the couple were considered guilty, not for actually wielding the knife, but setting up and participating in the scenario that enabled or caused guede to kill her; wrestling her into submission? plying her with drugs, or other pressure.

Only A can tell us, Mr S. is unlikely to, being captive, he could get a life sentence if he told all.
 
2014-02-01 05:32:21 PM  

Boojum2k: Correct State Department response "No, we're not going to turn over an American citizen to a crazy prosecutor, but we have plenty of JDAMs, would a JDAM work for him? What's the GPS for his office?"


Nor should they even if the Italian justice system was Sane,  It's one thing to extradite an Italian citizen found hiding in this country.  But the US has a duty to protect its own citizens from foreign governments.
 
2014-02-01 05:35:35 PM  
She's got a really guilty looking face. I think she did it.  In fact, I think she also burned down the banana stand.


T-Bone, do you think she burned down the banana stand?

i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-01 05:38:36 PM  

Oblio13: Knox is probably innocent. She also tried to throw that bartender under the bus to save herself. So I have difficulty mustering sympathy for her.



She was convicted, sentenced and served her time for telling that lie about the bartender. Why are you unsympathetic to her being charged with a murder she did not commit in addition to what she was already punished for?
 
2014-02-01 05:38:57 PM  

Bad_Seed: Autistic Hiker: RenownedCurator: She's paid for it.

Amanda Knox wrote a book about her travails.  If it made any money, Patrice Lumumba should get it.

He doesn't need the money, he's dead. The CIA killed him.


Oops, so they did.  I meant  PatrickLumumba.
 
2014-02-01 05:44:52 PM  

JSTACAT: -At times like this- one could wish for a truth serum interview, or a good lie detector series.
Many people have said she looks/acts guilty.... in subsequent interviews on tv.
Why doesn't she volunteer for lie detector & settle this??

there are a lot of people in the us who are doing time for murder, because they were present in the car, in the room, etc, assisting , covering evidence, etc.

Something about the charges may have been lost in translation or journalistic frenzy.
it is possible the the couple were considered guilty, not for actually wielding the knife, but setting up and participating in the scenario that enabled or caused guede to kill her; wrestling her into submission? plying her with drugs, or other pressure.

Only A can tell us, Mr S. is unlikely to, being captive, he could get a life sentence if he told all.



Just how accurate do you think a lie detector test is?
 
2014-02-01 05:44:57 PM  
debutante goes to europe, proceeds to get her freak on, with the assumption that what happens in italy stays in italy, but it's all fun and games until the gimp dies

i haven't seen the interview with good morning america, so i'm curious if she uses the phrase "ahm uhh vick tim" with equal emphasis on all four syllables in the jerry springer / maury povich style
 
2014-02-01 05:46:30 PM  

serialsuicidebomber: Well, there might be a Fark thread every time she's either acquitted or convicted, but if she ever does porn, it'll be a ball.


Well, the way the Italian justice system works, that could be 30 or 40 more threads.
 
2014-02-01 05:47:45 PM  
Threaten to close a few military bases in Italy. The local economies where they are located would collapse.

/I'm all for closing those bases without even considering the Knox case
 
2014-02-01 05:53:31 PM  
JSTACAT: -At times like this- one could wish for a truth serum interview, or a good lie detector series.
Many people have said she looks/acts guilty.... in subsequent interviews on tv.
Why doesn't she volunteer for lie detector & settle this??


1) They don't say she looks guilty, they say she shows no remorse. It's kinda hard to be remorseful for something you didn't do.
2) Polygraph tests aren't very effective. They wouldn't change anyone's opinion on the matter either. George Zimmerman passed two polygraph tests about Trayvon Martin, swaying precisely zero people.
3) None of this is necessary. No evidence points to her.
 
2014-02-01 06:09:24 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: Lira

?

che cosa sono Lira ?


Prostitution may be illegal in (some states) of your godawful country, but it's legal in much of Europe, including Italy
 
2014-02-01 06:20:00 PM  
Whoa-oh here she comes, watch out, boy, she'll chew you up...
 
2014-02-01 06:20:19 PM  
Spiralmonkey:

You're not in a minority. What tabloids print and what people really think are usually poles apart. I've not heard anyone say they think she's guilty,

I think she's guilty.
 
2014-02-01 06:26:01 PM  

worlddan: Spiralmonkey:

You're not in a minority. What tabloids print and what people really think are usually poles apart. I've not heard anyone say they think she's guilty,

I think she's guilty.


You're an idiot
 
2014-02-01 06:37:01 PM  
You're....you're...you're an ICECUBE.
 
2014-02-01 06:40:22 PM  

worlddan: You're....you're...you're an ICECUBE.


Ooooooooh you freezer burned him!
 
2014-02-01 06:42:21 PM  
Doesn't matter, she is still super hot.
 
2014-02-01 06:46:09 PM  
Until Amanda Knox is extradited, mail for American soldiers in Italy is being held hostage!

http://www.stripes.com/news/italy-begins-charging-taxes-and-duties-o n- us-military-mail-1.264743
 
2014-02-01 06:49:00 PM  

phrawgh: Until Amanda Knox is extradited, mail for American soldiers in Italy is being held hostage!

http://www.stripes.com/news/italy-begins-charging-taxes-and-duties-o n- us-military-mail-1.264743


Close the bases, bring them home. That way Italy isn't incurring those expenses that are suddenly requiring a tax.
 
2014-02-01 06:51:06 PM  

phrawgh: Until Amanda Knox is extradited, mail for American soldiers in Italy is being held hostage!

http://www.stripes.com/news/italy-begins-charging-taxes-and-duties-o n- us-military-mail-1.264743

Deeesa cry-sus!!!     (I am so sorry)

apexfanproductions.files.wordpress.com
 
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