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(Slate)   Don't just assume she's guilty. We all know the Italian Justice system is insane   (slate.com) divider line 140
    More: Asinine, Amanda Knox, Italian Justice, Italians, country legal systems, Perugia, Italian Court, African immigrants, miscarriage of justice  
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11215 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Feb 2014 at 3:28 PM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-01 10:11:49 AM
no, the Italian justice system is hopelessly corrupt. There's a difference.
 
2014-02-01 10:15:28 AM
FTA: "This, of course, would never happen in a U.S. court, where the Constitution forbids suspects from being repeatedly retried. "

Wut

If a US appeals court declares you get a new trial during your appeals process you get a new trial. There's not really a difference here.
 
2014-02-01 10:27:14 AM

Doktor_Zhivago: If a US appeals court declares you get a new trial during your appeals process you get a new trial. There's not really a difference here.


Yes. *You* can appeal your guilty verdict. *The Government* cannot appeal your innocent verdict.
 
2014-02-01 10:33:40 AM

Gecko Gingrich: Yes. *You* can appeal your guilty verdict. *The Government* cannot appeal your innocent verdict.


I was referring the idea in the article that people in the US somehow never get retried after an appeal. The whole purpose of appealing a guilty verdict is usually to get a new trial as appeals courts don't usually just throw out verdicts and let you walk free

The italian court system is still retarded.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-02-01 11:22:12 AM
The problem is that there was no evidence.  The prosecution even had a totally new theory of what happened.  This case sounds like something out of Texas.
 
2014-02-01 12:13:12 PM
If at first you don't get the verdict you want, keep trying until you do get the verdict you want

/f*cking ridiculous
 
2014-02-01 12:18:56 PM

Gecko Gingrich: Doktor_Zhivago: If a US appeals court declares you get a new trial during your appeals process you get a new trial. There's not really a difference here.

Yes. *You* can appeal your guilty verdict. *The Government* cannot appeal your innocent verdict.


this is also false

she was found guilty court
overturned in appellate court
that appeal was overturned in the supreme court and sent back for retrial

that is totally possible in the US, esp depending on what the appeal was about in the first place: false testimony, evidence, misconduct, etc etc etc

The high court could have overturned the appeal and just reinstated the sentence. So it could have been worse.

THIS IS WHY YOU NEVER , EVER TALK TO THE POLICE without a lawyer.
AND never ever talk to the health people about HIV without a lawyer.

farkIT, I am becoming a lawyer so I will be safe talking to people.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-02-01 12:31:21 PM
namatad:

farkIT, I am becoming a lawyer so I will be safe talking to people.

You know what they say about lawyers who are their own client.
 
2014-02-01 12:40:49 PM
She's hot, but I would insist on locking up the knives before things get really weird.  I mean honestly, you should do these things with every new person you meet.
 
2014-02-01 01:55:50 PM
Giuliano Mignini had previously prosecuted the "Monster of Florence" serial killer case and became convinced that it was a masonic conspiracy. His case came to nothing. Mignini was later convicted of illegally tapping the phones of various police and reporters connected to the Florence case, and was given a 16-month suspended sentence.

Oh, he didn't prosecute the Mostro case*, he was investigating the drowning of a doctor in Lake Trasimene which occurred in the 80s. He linked the case to the Florence murders because he believed a Satanic cult was involved. He had reporter Mario Spezi arrested for being a part of this Satanic cult, because, among other things, Spezi owned this:
www.florencewebguide.com
A Satanic object. Or a traditional Tuscan doorstop. Same thing. A similar stone was found at one of the Monster's crime scenes.

Mignini sees Satan in everything.

*He might as well have done it. The man who was tried for the Monster's crimes was an 80-something year old man with a heart condition, who they alleged managed to sprint after the last male victim, a runner.
 
2014-02-01 02:05:55 PM
People who mistakenly think the US system is better are fools.

Personally I expected this, but that means nothing. The problem is not that Italy's system is corrupt. It's that there isn't really a less corrupt system.
 
2014-02-01 03:18:38 PM
Wasn't it an Italian court that convicted some scientists for not predicting an earthquake, or something silly along those lines?
 
2014-02-01 03:31:39 PM

incendi: Wasn't it an Italian court that convicted some scientists for not predicting an earthquake, or something silly along those lines?


Si, certo. Grazie Obama...
 
2014-02-01 03:34:18 PM
serialkillersink.net
Geraldo covered this stuff 30 years ago.
 
2014-02-01 03:35:11 PM
A good argument.. except for the dead body.... and the fact that the skank did it.
 
2014-02-01 03:35:46 PM
Knox's warden said that she didn't show remorse. Called her an Ice Maiden.  Do innocent people show remorse? And maybe the reason she didn't fall apart in jail is that she had hope that she would be found innocent.

I wonder how many innocents Knox's warden thinks are in her jail.

Zero?

Because justice is perfect, right?

Right.
 
2014-02-01 03:35:53 PM
They may be corrupt or crazy... but at least they can get a conviction.  What would have happened if OJ, Casey Anthony, or ZImmerman were tried in Italy?  A lot less clicks for Fark, that's what.
 
2014-02-01 03:39:55 PM

karmaceutical: They may be corrupt or crazy... but at least they can get a conviction.  What would have happened if OJ, Casey Anthony, or ZImmerman were tried in Italy?  A lot less clicks for Fark, that's what.


So what you're saying is that Nancy Grace should move to Italy? I fully support that idea.
 
2014-02-01 03:40:04 PM

mrlewish: A good argument.. except for the dead body.... and the fact that the skank did it.


You mean the dead body that another man was convicted of killing? And that no evidence actually points to Knox having done it?
 
2014-02-01 03:40:40 PM
If you want to amuse yourself, or perhaps be concerned, check out the comments regarding this on British tabloids.  America is basically a land of violent criminals who are also rich and arrogant and you can never trust them to tell the truth and they think they run the whole planet and no real Brit would ever visit such a horrible place.  It gives you a window into why no amount of evidence (or lack thereof) will change the mind of some people.  Someone has to pay for the death of one of their own, and if you're convinced about the way "those people" are it's pretty easy to assume she did it.

/not accusing every British person of being like this
 
2014-02-01 03:42:27 PM
american justice is the best in the world and all other jurisdictions are evil and or corrupt, especially of they convict pretty white american girls

/coughGitmocough
 
2014-02-01 03:42:41 PM

Rapmaster2000: America is basically a land of violent criminals who are also rich and arrogant and you can never trust them to tell the truth and they think they run the whole planet and no real Brit would ever visit such a horrible place.



Sure, I think we can all agree to this. And their point is?
 
2014-02-01 03:43:54 PM
I stayed away from this story for years because it looked like tabloid crap.  Finally did some reading about the details and holy crap, how could anyone conclude she and her boyfriend had anything to do with it?  This wouldn't even be brought before a grand jury in the US.  There's simply no evidence, just fantasy and prosecutorial misconduct.

And yet news accounts are still written with horribly misleading bits like "she said she was at the apartment covering her ears so she wouldn't hear the screams".  Basically they interrogated her Frank Pembleton style and got her to "imagine" how it might have gone down with her there.
 
2014-02-01 03:47:40 PM
I'd represent her pro boner.
 
2014-02-01 03:47:59 PM
Amanda Knox and her boyfriend are extremely good suspects in the murder case.  They may have actually even done it.  That said, there is a big gulf between reasonable suspicion, which the Italians do have in this case, and actual damning evidence that shows she is guilty, which they seem to be missing.

From our own ethics, on this side of the pond, there exist things like, reasonable doubt, double jeopardy, and prosecution ethics, that do not seem to be universal in regards to the Italian system.  If she actually did play a hand in her room mates death, than I wish to hell that the Italians could have done a better job establishing that guilt.  If she truly innocent, then I wish they would leave her in peace.
 
2014-02-01 03:48:43 PM
I will take "innocent until proven guilty" and "government prohibited from proven double jeopardy" over Italian justice. I don't understand how this can happen here, or the arguments in that regard in this thread.
 
2014-02-01 03:48:56 PM

Bacontastesgood: I stayed away from this story for years because it looked like tabloid crap.  Finally did some reading about the details and holy crap, how could anyone conclude she and her boyfriend had anything to do with it?  This wouldn't even be brought before a grand jury in the US.  There's simply no evidence, just fantasy and prosecutorial misconduct.

And yet news accounts are still written with horribly misleading bits like "she said she was at the apartment covering her ears so she wouldn't hear the screams".  Basically they interrogated her Frank Pembleton style and got her to "imagine" how it might have gone down with her there.


Pretty much this.  Hers is easily one of the top 10 cases of prosecutorial & judicial misconduct I've seen.
 
2014-02-01 03:49:09 PM
Didn't an italian guy already confess and cop a plea and go to jail for this? Doesn't that sort of prove that Amanda Knox is being tried simply because "fark the american"?
 
2014-02-01 03:49:19 PM
She is, however, guilty if ignoring my hundreds of letters.
 
2014-02-01 03:49:39 PM
"This, of course, would never happen in a U.S. court, where the Constitution forbids suspects from being repeatedly retried."


Well this is clearly a well researched article...

/it's the same trial, she was previously found "Guilty: Pending appeal" and "Acquitted: Pending appeal. She's currently "Guilty: pending appeal".
//it has multiple levels of appeal... it's the same trial.
///there's one layer of appeal left. She still hasn't been declared guilty/not guilty in finality.
////it's like saying the verdict and sentencing are "separate trials" just because the US does them separately. They aren't and no-one in the US would consider them to be, just like few in Italy would consider these separate trials.
 
2014-02-01 03:50:59 PM

Kit Fister: Didn't an italian guy already confess and cop a plea and go to jail for this? Doesn't that sort of prove that Amanda Knox is being tried simply because "fark the american"?


There was an Italian guy caught and confessed to it already.

 He changed his story to one of conspiracy that implicated Amanda Knox as his partner in crime when they offered him a reduced sentence in exchange for such testimony.
 
2014-02-01 03:51:20 PM
She is totally guilty.
 
2014-02-01 03:51:47 PM

doglover: People who mistakenly think the US system is better are fools.

Personally I expected this, but that means nothing. The problem is not that Italy's system is corrupt. It's that there isn't really a less corrupt system.



Yes, but people who correctly think the US system is better are better informed and certainly much smarter than people who think the US justice system is worse than it is in Italy.
 
2014-02-01 03:53:00 PM
Amanda Knox is only guilty of being an American. They let gangsters who murder toddlers run amok, but try to frame US college students. A picture of Italy should be next to the word corruption in the dictionary.
 
2014-02-01 03:55:00 PM

Kit Fister: Didn't an italian guy already confess and cop a plea and go to jail for this? Doesn't that sort of prove that Amanda Knox is being tried simply because "fark the american"?


There was a man linked by DNA to the case: Rudy Guede (not Italian though, Ivoirian raised in Perugia).
 
2014-02-01 03:55:21 PM

Kiwimann: Kit Fister: Didn't an italian guy already confess and cop a plea and go to jail for this? Doesn't that sort of prove that Amanda Knox is being tried simply because "fark the american"?

There was an Italian guy caught and confessed to it already.

 He changed his story to one of conspiracy that implicated Amanda Knox as his partner in crime when they offered him a reduced sentence in exchange for such testimony.


Ah, I see. "well give you a reduced sentence if you agree to implicate the american."
 
2014-02-01 03:56:50 PM

Some Coke Drinking Guy: Amanda Knox and her boyfriend are extremely good suspects in the murder case.  They may have actually even done it.  That said, there is a big gulf between reasonable suspicion, which the Italians do have in this case, and actual damning evidence that shows she is guilty, which they seem to be missing.

From our own ethics, on this side of the pond, there exist things like, reasonable doubt, double jeopardy, and prosecution ethics, that do not seem to be universal in regards to the Italian system.  If she actually did play a hand in her room mates death, than I wish to hell that the Italians could have done a better job establishing that guilt.  If she truly innocent, then I wish they would leave her in peace.



They may have had reasonable suspicion initially but that suspicion is no longer valid as no physical evidence against them exists.
 
2014-02-01 03:57:43 PM

incendi: Wasn't it an Italian court that convicted some scientists for not predicting an earthquake, or something silly along those lines?


http://articles.latimes.com/2013/sep/28/science/la-sci-sn-italy-eart hq uake-forecast-prison-20130926
 
2014-02-01 03:58:27 PM
I'm just glad we live in a country where innocent people never get locked up. It give us plenty of time to focus on corruption in other countries. But seriously, she cut her hair and doesn't look as good, why do we care now?
 
2014-02-01 03:59:39 PM

"If I was president, everyone on death row would be dead"rockchicago.net

"If 2 out of 3 people say you did it, that's good enough for me"

 
2014-02-01 03:59:51 PM

karmaceutical: They may be corrupt or crazy... but at least they can get a conviction.  What would have happened if OJ, Casey Anthony, or ZImmerman were tried in Italy?  A lot less clicks for Fark, that's what.


It convicts both types of people, country and western innocent and guilty.
 
2014-02-01 04:02:25 PM
 
2014-02-01 04:02:37 PM

Rapmaster2000: If you want to amuse yourself, or perhaps be concerned, check out the comments regarding this on British tabloids.  America is basically a land of violent criminals who are also rich and arrogant and you can never trust them to tell the truth and they think they run the whole planet and no real Brit would ever visit such a horrible place.  It gives you a window into why no amount of evidence (or lack thereof) will change the mind of some people.  Someone has to pay for the death of one of their own, and if you're convinced about the way "those people" are it's pretty easy to assume she did it.

/not accusing every British person of being like this


Nonsense, I've never seen or heard anything like that, except in Youtube comments. While I don't read tabloids, and I suggest you stop, I don't know a single person who thinks Knox did it, and pretty much everyone is supportive of her and thinks the Italian system is wrong.

It would sadden me if I was in the minority.
 
2014-02-01 04:05:39 PM

Kiwimann: Kit Fister: Didn't an italian guy already confess and cop a plea and go to jail for this? Doesn't that sort of prove that Amanda Knox is being tried simply because "fark the american"?

There was an Italian guy caught and confessed to it already.

 He changed his story to one of conspiracy that implicated Amanda Knox as his partner in crime when they offered him a reduced sentence in exchange for such testimony.


Yes, the basics of the case are the murderer was caught a few days after the murder, and justice was done. Then crazy prosecutor gets involved in another case, sees satanists everywhere as he regularly does and the murderers sentence is reduced in order for lots of newspapers to sell lots of copies based on his insane ravings.
 
2014-02-01 04:07:07 PM

Kit Fister: Kiwimann: Kit Fister: Didn't an italian guy already confess and cop a plea and go to jail for this? Doesn't that sort of prove that Amanda Knox is being tried simply because "fark the american"?

There was an Italian guy caught and confessed to it already.

 He changed his story to one of conspiracy that implicated Amanda Knox as his partner in crime when they offered him a reduced sentence in exchange for such testimony.

Ah, I see. "well give you a reduced sentence if you agree to implicate the american."


"You think you'd like to play ball with the law?"
 
2014-02-01 04:09:16 PM

Slaxl: Rapmaster2000: If you want to amuse yourself, or perhaps be concerned, check out the comments regarding this on British tabloids.  America is basically a land of violent criminals who are also rich and arrogant and you can never trust them to tell the truth and they think they run the whole planet and no real Brit would ever visit such a horrible place.  It gives you a window into why no amount of evidence (or lack thereof) will change the mind of some people.  Someone has to pay for the death of one of their own, and if you're convinced about the way "those people" are it's pretty easy to assume she did it.

/not accusing every British person of being like this

Nonsense, I've never seen or heard anything like that, except in Youtube comments. While I don't read tabloids, and I suggest you stop, I don't know a single person who thinks Knox did it, and pretty much everyone is supportive of her and thinks the Italian system is wrong.

It would sadden me if I was in the minority.


Well, let's be honest, you're likely an upper-middle class, educated person with educated friends.  If you were the kind of person who reads the Daily Fail to get the latest on Foxy Knoxy and Wacko Jacko, you might have friends who do think that.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2549764/Amanda-Knox-extradit io n-attempts-doomed-fail-say-diplomats.html
 
2014-02-01 04:12:00 PM

Slaxl: Rapmaster2000: If you want to amuse yourself, or perhaps be concerned, check out the comments regarding this on British tabloids.  America is basically a land of violent criminals who are also rich and arrogant and you can never trust them to tell the truth and they think they run the whole planet and no real Brit would ever visit such a horrible place.  It gives you a window into why no amount of evidence (or lack thereof) will change the mind of some people.  Someone has to pay for the death of one of their own, and if you're convinced about the way "those people" are it's pretty easy to assume she did it.

/not accusing every British person of being like this

Nonsense, I've never seen or heard anything like that, except in Youtube comments. While I don't read tabloids, and I suggest you stop, I don't know a single person who thinks Knox did it, and pretty much everyone is supportive of her and thinks the Italian system is wrong.

It would sadden me if I was in the minority.


And I'll add, none of my friends think the Muslims are going to establish Sharia Law in America, but it's apparently a legitimate concern among some of the people in places like Kansas and Tennessee as evidenced by the attempts of some of those area's lawmakers.
 
2014-02-01 04:12:09 PM
Correct State Department response "No, we're not going to turn over an American citizen to a crazy prosecutor, but we have plenty of JDAMs, would a JDAM work for him? What's the GPS for his office?"
 
2014-02-01 04:12:27 PM

Gecko Gingrich: Doktor_Zhivago: If a US appeals court declares you get a new trial during your appeals process you get a new trial. There's not really a difference here.

Yes. *You* can appeal your guilty verdict. *The Government* cannot appeal your innocent verdict.


But the family of the victim can sue in civil court, and if the State doesn't get a conviction, the Feds can try the case (and vice versa).
 
2014-02-01 04:16:39 PM

Slaxl: Rapmaster2000: If you want to amuse yourself, or perhaps be concerned, check out the comments regarding this on British tabloids.  America is basically a land of violent criminals who are also rich and arrogant and you can never trust them to tell the truth and they think they run the whole planet and no real Brit would ever visit such a horrible place.  It gives you a window into why no amount of evidence (or lack thereof) will change the mind of some people.  Someone has to pay for the death of one of their own, and if you're convinced about the way "those people" are it's pretty easy to assume she did it.

/not accusing every British person of being like this

Nonsense, I've never seen or heard anything like that, except in Youtube comments. While I don't read tabloids, and I suggest you stop, I don't know a single person who thinks Knox did it, and pretty much everyone is supportive of her and thinks the Italian system is wrong.

It would sadden me if I was in the minority.


You're not in a minority. What tabloids print and what people really think are usually poles apart. I've not heard anyone say they think she's guilty, but an awful lot who think the Italian justice system needs a boot up the arse.
 
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