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(Gawker)   Had any fresh fruits and vegetables lately? How about some almonds or walnuts? California produces a huge percentage of this stuff, and the state just cut farm water supplies to ... zero   (gawker.com) divider line 221
    More: Scary, walnuts, vegetables lately, almonds, water supplies, fruits, farms  
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8409 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Feb 2014 at 12:41 AM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-01 02:06:04 AM  

That Guy Jeff: So get rid of that crap. Let water cost what it actually costs, and you don't have to make any rules about water usage. Suddenly lawns are too expensive, people shut off the water the way they shut off lights, and golf courses go out of business. Best of all, if the cost of water goes up, the usage goes down and the water lasts longer. It's freakin' amazing what letting people see the actual cost of their stuff will do.


Pretty much spot on.  Stop creating the problem.

oh noes, we'll have to do without avocados and almonds
we'll survive Cal.  Get over yourselves.
 
2014-02-01 02:07:46 AM  

Aussie_As: RayD8:...
I'm originally from Western Australia. There has been water restrictions in place there for most summers as far back as I can remember.
Reservoir levels have been at 15-20% for years.
Australia is in the midst of a terrible heat wave as we speak, so no relief in sight.
Globally, things are going to get worse.

Western Australia is in a bad way waterwise. Economy is otherwise booming but the annual rainfall to the south-west corner of WA (which is where most of the population is) dropped from about the mid 1970s and just never came back.

The heat is on in Australia's south-east (that's a whole lot of desert away from Western Australia) but its not drought condtions currently. Big drought ended a few years ago.


Yeah mate. Look at the bushfire situation and lack of water supplies.
I know fires are part of the deal, but seems to be increasing in severity yearly.
The whole Murray fiasco is not helping much either.
 
2014-02-01 02:07:55 AM  
perhaps the drought isnt permanent?
 
2014-02-01 02:08:56 AM  

That Guy Jeff: So get rid of that crap. Let water cost what it actually costs, and you don't have to make any rules about water usage. Suddenly lawns are too expensive, people shut off the water the way they shut off lights, and golf courses go out of business. Best of all, if the cost of water goes up, the usage goes down and the water lasts longer. It's freakin' amazing what letting people see the actual cost of their stuff will do. And, as an extra bonus, you don't have to make any new rules to enforce. No SWAT raids for water violations, no spying on you to see your usage, no drones checking your swimming pool, none of that. Just plain simply economics to fix the problem. That's what we need in Arizona, and that's what you need in California.


The SNWA in Vegas did exactly that, and also paid people to convert their lush lawns to desert landscaping, up to $1,500. I had a house with a huge mulberry tree and front lawn and my water bill in the summer was $130 or more. The new owner of my old house converted to desert landscaping.
 
2014-02-01 02:09:48 AM  

mikaloyd: perhaps the drought isnt permanent?


Much like an earthquake, we never really know when it's gonna end until it does.
 
2014-02-01 02:10:23 AM  

mikaloyd: looks like the East coast can start importing food from europe right away


Or supplying a good amount of our food like we already do. So we lose some specialty food, but we get to watch California slowly crumble in exchange.
 
2014-02-01 02:11:35 AM  

make me some tea: MaudlinMutantMollusk: make me some tea: RayD8: WOW! I think you may be in for a lean time. You will have to shower like the French.(weekly)

I'm from Las Vegas, so I'm no stranger to water issues, but this is entirely different because Sac area isn't accustomed to rationing. They're asking residential customers to cut their water use as much as possible. Shut off water to lawns, take 5min showers, etc. I'm pretty sure it's going to be mandatory soon. This summer is gonna be a biatch unless the pattern changes.

Oh, rationing isn't new to Sac by any means

/have we reached "brick in the toilet and only flush solids" stage yet?

We still get plenty of fog, it might be time to invest in moisture collection systems.


I'm already praying to Shai-Hulud; getting fitted for my stilsuit next week.
 
2014-02-01 02:14:15 AM  

That Guy Jeff: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Maybe the fact that there's no water TO deliver might be a factor

/reservoirs ain't lookin' too good around here
//and damn little snow up top
///this is gonna suck hard come Summer

You live in California; be honest, it sucks in Spring, Fall, and Winter too.


Ahahahahaha... no

/if you're already here, leave
//if you're not here, don't come here: it sucks just as badly as you believe it does
 
2014-02-01 02:15:03 AM  

make me some tea: That Guy Jeff: So get rid of that crap. Let water cost what it actually costs, and you don't have to make any rules about water usage. Suddenly lawns are too expensive, people shut off the water the way they shut off lights, and golf courses go out of business. Best of all, if the cost of water goes up, the usage goes down and the water lasts longer. It's freakin' amazing what letting people see the actual cost of their stuff will do. And, as an extra bonus, you don't have to make any new rules to enforce. No SWAT raids for water violations, no spying on you to see your usage, no drones checking your swimming pool, none of that. Just plain simply economics to fix the problem. That's what we need in Arizona, and that's what you need in California.

The SNWA in Vegas did exactly that, and also paid people to convert their lush lawns to desert landscaping, up to $1,500. I had a house with a huge mulberry tree and front lawn and my water bill in the summer was $130 or more. The new owner of my old house converted to desert landscaping.


In West Oz, they charged you incrementally. A certain amount was the standard. Anything over and above, they hit you hard.
How long are you talking for $130.00? and what sort of consumption.
 
2014-02-01 02:16:01 AM  

RayD8: Aussie_As: RayD8:...

Yeah mate. Look at the bushfire situation and lack of water supplies.
I know fires are part of the deal, but seems to be increasing in severity yearly.
The whole Murray fiasco is not helping much either.


The whole Murray fiasco is a great metaphor for Australian environmental politics in general. It was a huge issue right until the rains came back to Victoria in 2009 or 2010 and now the system is fairly full again, and the political impetus to redesign water use in the Murray-Darling basin is now not really there.

So next drought will be a repeat of the same schmozzle as last time with all of the same butthurt and biatching. Yay!
 
2014-02-01 02:18:34 AM  

mikaloyd: perhaps the drought isnt permanent?


I heard a few years ago that a good bit of the problem is due to using exceptionally wet years as the baseline for calculating who gets how much water. If the assumption is that there should be X acre feet of water to divvy up, shiat hits the fan when we only have X/2 to go around.

Back to watering the garden once a week. fark, I was going to try growing basil this year, too.
 
2014-02-01 02:19:19 AM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Nope, no gorebull warming here.


Meanwhile in Wisconsin:

img.fark.net
 
2014-02-01 02:22:13 AM  

make me some tea: MaudlinMutantMollusk: make me some tea: RayD8: WOW! I think you may be in for a lean time. You will have to shower like the French.(weekly)

I'm from Las Vegas, so I'm no stranger to water issues, but this is entirely different because Sac area isn't accustomed to rationing. They're asking residential customers to cut their water use as much as possible. Shut off water to lawns, take 5min showers, etc. I'm pretty sure it's going to be mandatory soon. This summer is gonna be a biatch unless the pattern changes.

Oh, rationing isn't new to Sac by any means

/have we reached "brick in the toilet and only flush solids" stage yet?

We still get plenty of fog, it might be time to invest in moisture collection systems.


I was thinking about that when I was going through my own water woes. I have this roll around AC that I use when I really need it. It blows the hot air out the window and when I run it all day I have to drain a gallon or two of water from it every day. And that's kind of a lot of water getting pulled out of the Arizona air in June. I wonder how much water a built in AC in your area drains onto the ground.
 
2014-02-01 02:26:10 AM  

Myth Sammich: Lee Jackson Beauregard: Nope, no gorebull warming here.

Meanwhile in Wisconsin:

[img.fark.net image 850x479]


Why is Wisconsin being bombarded by purple dots?
 
2014-02-01 02:28:08 AM  
Saw this graph in the paper today:

planetindistress.files.wordpress.com

CA could be in for another hundred years of this.
 
2014-02-01 02:31:16 AM  

Aussie_As: RayD8: Aussie_As: RayD8:...

Yeah mate. Look at the bushfire situation and lack of water supplies.
I know fires are part of the deal, but seems to be increasing in severity yearly.
The whole Murray fiasco is not helping much either.

The whole Murray fiasco is a great metaphor for Australian environmental politics in general. It was a huge issue right until the rains came back to Victoria in 2009 or 2010 and now the system is fairly full again, and the political impetus to redesign water use in the Murray-Darling basin is now not really there.

So next drought will be a repeat of the same schmozzle as last time with all of the same butthurt and biatching. Yay!


Yeah geez, you wouldn't start preparing for the next similar situation would you?
Labor/LNP.....either way not much foresight into a major problem affecting a huge number of people and environment.
 
2014-02-01 02:37:18 AM  

CipollinaFan: Maybe growing most of the nation's food in a desert was not such a good idea.


noirwhale.files.wordpress.com
Disagrees.
 
2014-02-01 02:45:11 AM  

Myth Sammich: Lee Jackson Beauregard: Nope, no gorebull warming here.

Meanwhile in Wisconsin:

[img.fark.net image 850x479]


Meanwhile, on the rest of the planet:
i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-01 02:49:06 AM  

Nexzus: As a citizen of the country north of the USA, incidentally containing 20% of the world's fresh water and .5% of the world's population: every time I hear about another water shortage in our neighbours to the south, I get a tiny bit more nervous.


You'll see a pipeline from the Columbia River to California long before you see US troops killing for Timbits.  If things get really desperate, they can build canals and tunnels from the Mississippi to the southwest so that California can have more of the Colorado.
 
2014-02-01 02:52:50 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Ha ha.

I'm anxiously awaiting when we get our 50-gal/day mandatory water rationing. We did that during the last really bad drought in 1976ish, IIRC. That was fun. Not. No flush-ie toilet, bathing every other day, no watering lawns...good times. Cannot WAIT for the screaming from the HOAs, though! Watching golf courses get brown & crunchy in the searing So Cal sun...

50  gallons a DAY is rationing to you? What the fark is wrong with you?

A toilet uses 1,5 gallons nowadays or half that with the little flush button.
 
2014-02-01 02:52:53 AM  
Desalination plants have been on the drawing boards for decades. NIMBY!
There is also a technology called cogeneration whereby excess heat from plants that generate electricity is used for desalination.

We have been through this before. I used to take showers standing in a 50-gallon plastic tub. That was 1976.
 
2014-02-01 02:53:36 AM  

generallyso: Myth Sammich: Lee Jackson Beauregard: Nope, no gorebull warming here.

Meanwhile in Wisconsin:

[img.fark.net image 850x479]

Meanwhile, on the rest of the planet:
[i.imgur.com image 640x694]


Touche.
 
2014-02-01 02:53:44 AM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Nope, no gorebull warming here.


The lack of rainfall is due to a ridge of high pressure that has been stationary off the Cali coast for a number of months.  In the past, some of these persistent high pressure zones have lasted years.  As to if air or sea temperature is to blame, we can't say.
 
2014-02-01 02:53:47 AM  
They should start installing these everywhere.
Obscure?

static4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-02-01 02:55:36 AM  

Mister Peejay: I find it kinda funny (funny "duh" not funny "ha-ha") when people start mumbling about getting water from the Great Lakes.

Ever look at the Great Lakes watershed?  Most of it is in Canada.  That's Canadian water.


For the moment.
 
2014-02-01 02:55:57 AM  

Mark Ratner: Too bad it is really expensive to desalinate the ocean water.


No kidding.  Think of all the salt we'd have.
 
2014-02-01 02:58:06 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Watching golf courses get brown & crunchy in the searing So Cal sun...


If So Cal is like central Arizona, those golf courses are legally required to utilize gray water from waste-water treatment facilities and not potable water.  Same with large parks and greenbelts in neighborhoods.


/don't drink water from the purple pipes
 
2014-02-01 02:59:57 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: Ah yes, control of the food supply just in time to manufacture a crisis.  Well played Fartbongo


You know, every time I come back here from reddit and see retarded comments like this I wish there was a farking downvote button on Fark too.
 
2014-02-01 03:01:23 AM  

Dinjiin: Lee Jackson Beauregard: Nope, no gorebull warming here.

The lack of rainfall is due to a ridge of high pressure that has been stationary off the Cali coast for a number of months.  In the past, some of these persistent high pressure zones have lasted years.  As to if air or sea temperature is to blame, we can't say.


Sea temperatures are average, within the norm. Sea temperatures were lower than average during the summer months. They have risen slightly due to the high pressure and extended warm weather and sunshine.

It's just weather. You get different weather that deviates from the mean every year. This year we are on the far side of the bell curve. Climatologists have said that in the 1500s there were 10-year droughts on the west coast. Apparently these were not caused by my SUV nor Al Gore's 747 taking hot laps around the planet.
 
2014-02-01 03:01:50 AM  

Mark Ratner: They should start installing these everywhere.
Obscure?

[static4.wikia.nocookie.net image 700x994]


very obscure, obviously. what on earth is that thing?
 
2014-02-01 03:09:36 AM  

Pincy: Mark Ratner: Too bad it is really expensive to desalinate the ocean water.

No kidding.  Think of all the salt we'd have.


Actually lowered salinity is part of what the problem is. Mind you this is all off the top of my head from taking a meteorology class eight years ago, but basically the more that polar ice caps and glaciers melt, the lower the salinity of the oceans becomes. There's a current that runs through most of the globe that is dependent on salinity, because salt water doesn't freeze until it's about 28 degrees or less. This means it sinks, which contributes to the movement of the current.

I realize you'd have to build scores of plants to affect salinity on a level that would raise that level again, but... it certainly wouldn't hurt.
 
2014-02-01 03:15:26 AM  

some_beer_drinker: Mark Ratner: They should start installing these everywhere.
Obscure?

[static4.wikia.nocookie.net image 700x994]

very obscure, obviously. what on earth is that thing?


It's an image from the movie Star Wars. Spock's uncle was a moisture farmer.
/live long and prosper
 
2014-02-01 03:16:20 AM  
I drove by a house the other day that had it's sprinklers going and I reminded the homeowner that he could water his Bermuda grass day and night with our precious drinking water and it will still be brown. It's dormant in the winter.
 
2014-02-01 03:17:21 AM  

Mark Ratner: some_beer_drinker: Mark Ratner: They should start installing these everywhere.
Obscure?

[static4.wikia.nocookie.net image 700x994]

very obscure, obviously. what on earth is that thing?

It's an image from the movie Star Wars. Spock's uncle was a moisture farmer.
/live long and prosper


Ah... Nanu Nanu, Pilgrim
 
2014-02-01 03:25:13 AM  

Gyrfalcon: I'm anxiously awaiting when we get our 50-gal/day mandatory water rationing. We did that during the last really bad drought in 1976ish, IIRC. That was fun. Not. No flush-ie toilet, bathing every other day, no watering lawns...good times. Cannot WAIT for the screaming from the HOAs, though! Watching golf courses get brown & crunchy in the searing So Cal sun...


On the bright side, the last time water rationing happened, it led to this:

2.bp.blogspot.com

So maybe another big drought will be what finally makes these happen before 2015:

www.gadgetreview.com
 
2014-02-01 03:37:26 AM  

Aussie_As: MaudlinMutantMollusk: JonBuck: They can't build this desalination plant fast enough. Won't be running for a couple years.

IT'S ABOUT GODDAMNED TIME

/FFS, I've been saying for YEARS this was what we needed to do
//and when we had a working nuke powerplant on the coast, we could have built one next door and had the power required right there
///But NOOOoooooo...

You can get enough water out of desal to provide for a city's population and avoid the sorts of restrictions which prevent people from showering and flushing but you'd still have brown lawns and there's no way you can irrigate a substantial area of crops.

/Lives Adelaide, South Australia, population a bit over 1 million. We've built our desal plant for drought years which stop the Murray River flowing coz most of our suburban supply comes from there. The irrigators along the Murray are highly efficient with drip systems and all that stuff having gone in over the last 20 years or more but they get their entitlements heavily reduced and eventually completely stopped before they stop diverting river supply to Adelaide, and the desal would only kick in when that looked unsustainable. It's expensive.


Good to see another South Aussie! But what we need now is for those farkers in the East to do what the Riverland did a couple of decades ago...CLOSED CHANNEL IRRIGATION. Oh, and stop trying to grow cotton in the middle of a bleeding desert.

Yes, we used to have water rationing. Odd numbers one day, evens the next. Heavens above if you watered on your 'off' day.

/that lake pic before does not bode well.
//hoping you get some rain - lots of it - soon
///slashies
 
2014-02-01 04:03:55 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: make me some tea: RayD8: WOW! I think you may be in for a lean time. You will have to shower like the French.(weekly)

I'm from Las Vegas, so I'm no stranger to water issues, but this is entirely different because Sac area isn't accustomed to rationing. They're asking residential customers to cut their water use as much as possible. Shut off water to lawns, take 5min showers, etc. I'm pretty sure it's going to be mandatory soon. This summer is gonna be a biatch unless the pattern changes.

Oh, rationing isn't new to Sac by any means

/have we reached "brick in the toilet and only flush solids" stage yet?


Most of the area doesn't seem to grasp just how bad this thing is. They're still at the "fingers in ears singing" stage.

i.imgur.com

Folsom and Sacramento proper are the only places in the area that are doing anything more than voluntary. It's a little ridiculous.
 
2014-02-01 04:16:25 AM  

Jragghen: MaudlinMutantMollusk: make me some tea: RayD8: WOW! I think you may be in for a lean time. You will have to shower like the French.(weekly)

I'm from Las Vegas, so I'm no stranger to water issues, but this is entirely different because Sac area isn't accustomed to rationing. They're asking residential customers to cut their water use as much as possible. Shut off water to lawns, take 5min showers, etc. I'm pretty sure it's going to be mandatory soon. This summer is gonna be a biatch unless the pattern changes.

Oh, rationing isn't new to Sac by any means

/have we reached "brick in the toilet and only flush solids" stage yet?

Most of the area doesn't seem to grasp just how bad this thing is. They're still at the "fingers in ears singing" stage.

[i.imgur.com image 673x766]

Folsom and Sacramento proper are the only places in the area that are doing anything more than voluntary. It's a little ridiculous.


Well, when you got the KCRA weather boobs breathlessly telling you every morning how beautiful the weather is going to be today... every day... I think it lulls a lot of people (further) into their inherent apathy

/I live in that "information not available" area
//the part that's most in danger of wildfires
///I'm starting to get a teensy bit puckered
 
2014-02-01 04:34:52 AM  

Mark Ratner: Too bad it is really expensive to desalinate the ocean water.


That's what the fracked oil is for. Learn 2 science.
 
2014-02-01 04:36:35 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Gyrfalcon: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: "Farmers pumped out the groundwater long ago, and massive state and federal water projects keep agriculture going in a place that has otherwise turned to arid and chemical-soaked fields of death."

I'm not 100% convinced that anyone should be sending their water to support agriculture in the arid chemical-soaked fields of death of farmers who long ago destroyed their own water supply.

Yeah, blame it on the farmers. It's all their fault that everyone wanted to eat food on the cheap, just like it's the miners in Appalachia's fault everyone wanted power on the cheap.

You might put some blame on the agribusinesses who run the farms, sparky. The FARMERS knew a few decades ago it was insanity to keep pouring water on the fields--but the agribusinesses needed those rich, creamy water subsidies, which made it more cost-effective to keep dumping water all over the place rather than switching over to less wasteful drip-irrigation systems.

Anyway, most of the extraneous water loss isn't due to agriculture, which is extremely necessary. It's due to the bullshiat big cities like the one I live in, with its nice green lawns, nice green golf courses and parks, and water-wasting fountains, air-chilling plants and leaky infrastructure that drips water all over the desert south of Bakersfield.

I wonder how much water would be saved if we banned lawns--and ONLY lawns--in So Cal. I bet it would be a lot.

I really don't care whether you call them "farmers" or "agribusinesses."

And I'm all in favour of reducing the kind of waste you mention - for instance I agree that there are a lot of lawns in a lot of places they shouldn't be and they are managed improperly - but watering lawns is a drop in the bucket next to agricultural and other commercial water use.


Yeah, but you're missing the point.

We NEED agriculture. We kind of need to have food. We DON'T need beautiful green lawns and beautiful green putting greens and deep green duck ponds. And I don't think it's as much of a drop in the bucket as you think, considering that there are exactly zero plans to require ANYONE to moderate their lawn-watering, while forcing farmers to moderate their crop-watering.

I mean, it's all well and good--and extremely true--to excoriate farms and agriculture for wasting water, which they do--but that doesn't mean that city-dwellers get a pass for drowning their lawns and taking 40-minute showers because individually they are just 'drops in the bucket". There are about 10 million drops down here, and that accounts for a hell of a lot of drops by the end of the day.

I remember mandatory residential rationing in central Cal when I was a kid. Nobody down here has ever done it. And really, it ought to be done that way. Farms and ranches ought to be priority for water, and households should be last. You can buy bottled drinking water and use deodorant and wet wipes and tell your HOAs to shove it or get a lot of green paint. Hell, Vegas instituted mandatory native-plant landscaping and managed to cut their water use by a third while their population nearly doubled. Lawn care is a hidden water waster that needs to be unhidden imo.
 
2014-02-01 04:39:33 AM  
Months ago I said we're screwed if it doesn't start raining.  It never did, just an occasional light sprinkle.  Our water supply is so low that river fish are threatened (especially salmon spawning rivers).  Forced water rationing has already started in some counties.  It will only get worse.

I picked up some good habits during our last drought.  Don't leave the water running while brushing your teeth, etc.  I kept those good habits when the drought ended so there's no need for me to get back into drought mode.
 
2014-02-01 04:46:31 AM  
 
2014-02-01 04:46:36 AM  

pnkgtr: I drove by a house the other day that had it's sprinklers going and I reminded the homeowner that he could water his Bermuda grass day and night with our precious drinking water and it will still be brown. It's dormant in the winter.


I was visiting my grandfather in Michigan one Christmas. He took the time to get out a hose and water his lawn (which was buried under a foot of snow). Of course, he was senile by that time, and I didn't bother to tell him he was wasting water, mainly because he was busy telling me where Jimmy Hoffa was buried. And grandpa was a hell of a story teller.
 
2014-02-01 04:47:25 AM  

DrPainMD: Mister Peejay: I find it kinda funny (funny "duh" not funny "ha-ha") when people start mumbling about getting water from the Great Lakes.

Ever look at the Great Lakes watershed?  Most of it is in Canada.  That's Canadian water.

For the moment.


as long as the pipes and pumps are on the American side, it's our water!
 
2014-02-01 04:48:46 AM  
http://sunshinehours.wordpress.com/2014/01/19/drought-in-california-c o ol-pdo-and-warm-amo/

When the PDO is cool (which it is) and the AMO is warm (which it is) drought in California is going to happen.
 
2014-02-01 04:53:01 AM  
California is a dessert. California is also a desert.

Use it accordingly.
 
2014-02-01 05:01:54 AM  
It's almost as if everything in this country is set up to maximize the short-term profits of some very large corporations and fark everything else.

When the shiat hits the fan, the Heroic Job Creators fly off to their private islands.
 
2014-02-01 05:05:56 AM  

jaerik: What's interesting is that Southern California, having been cut off the North and Central Valley regions (where most of the snowfall is) during the last big drought in the 70's, has been hoarding water in good times and stashing it underground storage and reservoirs.  We've also managed to cut our water use in many areas while growing population at the same time.

As such, while Brown declares a state of emergency, San Diego and other SoCal municipalities have no plans for rationing nor forced conservation at the moment.   It's pretty much NorCal and the Central Valley that are farked for a change.


Or, as people in this thread think of it, "the desert."

/Lives in Calif high desert
//Last I looked, LA and environs were classified semi-arid.
 
2014-02-01 05:18:46 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: That Guy Jeff: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Maybe the fact that there's no water TO deliver might be a factor

/reservoirs ain't lookin' too good around here
//and damn little snow up top
///this is gonna suck hard come Summer

You live in California; be honest, it sucks in Spring, Fall, and Winter too.

Ahahahahaha... no

/if you're already here, leave
//if you're not here, don't come here: it sucks just as badly as you believe it does


Been there done that, you can keep that shiaty state for as long as you still pretend like you like it.
 
2014-02-01 05:28:44 AM  
It's clear that we've reached peak water.
 
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