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(Washington Times)   The latest ObamaCare scandal: regulating pizzas. THIS. IS. AN. OUTRAGE   (washingtontimes.com) divider line 197
    More: Stupid, obamacare, Cathy McMorris, Roy Blunt, Food Marketing Institute, medical sign, Loretta Sanchez, State of the Union  
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9544 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jan 2014 at 4:31 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



197 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-31 05:40:11 PM  
California already does this, and as far as I can tell fast food restaurants are doing just fine.
 
2014-01-31 05:41:13 PM  

IAmRight: sdd2000: I alone am best: When you change it you have to have the lab tell you how many calories are in your new menu item

I was responding to this in your post and the answer is no you can use any of these--including nutrient databases, cookbooks, laboratory analyses, and other reasonable means

But you guys, it's really expensive to google up nutrition facts for ingredients and know how much I use for each product I make! It could take a second-grader nearly hours to add up the numbers!


nutrient databases, cookbooks, laboratory analyses, and other reasonable means

Not

google and guesswork
 
2014-01-31 05:41:24 PM  
They've had that on the books for years in NY... It's pretty helpful to know that the meal you're ordering is about 1,000 more calories than you'd thought it was.
 
2014-01-31 05:42:09 PM  
combat this be ordering your pie by the calorie !

yes, i'd like a plain at 1000and a pepperoni at 1500and a 2 liter  of coke ...
 
2014-01-31 05:43:05 PM  

I alone am best: IAmRight: sdd2000: I alone am best: When you change it you have to have the lab tell you how many calories are in your new menu item

I was responding to this in your post and the answer is no you can use any of these--including nutrient databases, cookbooks, laboratory analyses, and other reasonable means

But you guys, it's really expensive to google up nutrition facts for ingredients and know how much I use for each product I make! It could take a second-grader nearly hours to add up the numbers!

nutrient databases, cookbooks, laboratory analyses, and other reasonable means

Not

google and guesswork


Addition is guesswork to the right wing?
 
2014-01-31 05:44:35 PM  
Who the fark reads that shiat anyway?
 
2014-01-31 05:44:59 PM  

sufferpuppet: Having somebody determine the calorie counts for an entire menu. Think that's free?


Hire some kid for near minimum wage, have him run through the recipes and determine caloric content based on the ingredients.  Shouldn't take more than a day or two at worst.  If your 20+ restaurant chain can't handle that, then you deserve to go out of business.


shootsright: Do people actually trust the nutritional information if it's provided?


I use it as a guide, expecting that it'll probably be off by ±10%, and possibly off by ±25%.  But, it did reenforce my suspicion that a lot of stuff marketed as "healthy" is still very high in calories and fat.  And I was surprised about how bad some things were.
 
2014-01-31 05:45:10 PM  

MemeSlave: Its only for places with 20 or more locations, because you know, big business is the root of all evil.


I'm sure you're being sarcastic, but generally larger businesses are more profitable and can absorb the cost of regulatory compliance much more easily than smaller businesses, and with most such regulatory issues, contribute to a larger portion of the problem that the regulation is designed to combat.
 
2014-01-31 05:46:09 PM  

WTFDYW: Who the fark reads that shiat anyway?


Read the comment section. You'll very quickly discover who.
 
2014-01-31 05:46:36 PM  

I alone am best: IAmRight: sdd2000: I alone am best: When you change it you have to have the lab tell you how many calories are in your new menu item

I was responding to this in your post and the answer is no you can use any of these--including nutrient databases, cookbooks, laboratory analyses, and other reasonable means

But you guys, it's really expensive to google up nutrition facts for ingredients and know how much I use for each product I make! It could take a second-grader nearly hours to add up the numbers!

nutrient databases, cookbooks, laboratory analyses, and other reasonable means

Not

google and guesswork


Describe  one ingredient not listed in the USDA's official reference, available online, free.
 
2014-01-31 05:48:31 PM  
FTFA:  Liz Thatcher is an adjunct scholar with the Competitive Enterprise Institute.

FFW:  The Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI) is a non-profit American, libertarian think tank founded on March 9, 1984 in Washington, D.C. by Fred L. Smith, Jr that aims to advance economic liberty by fighting what it sees as excessive government regulation.

Wish I knew that sooner, then I could have stopped reading even earlier.  Dumb biatch didn't even mention how it's already been implemented in California (that is, until it was negated by the ACA in a confusing state vs federal law mess than won't get resolved until the ACA goes into full effect).  It consists of adding numbers to the existing menu, numbers which are already known by any chain with more than a handful of stores.  Oh my farking god how much more arduous and expensive can it get?!

And, for the record, it was very useful (and still is in places that haven't reverted since the law was negated).  There's things which I knew were bad for me, I was like yeah...this thing's probably like 1000 calories, so I shouldn't have it too often.  Then came the labeling laws...it was 1920 calories.  I don't eat that thing anymore.  For those that look, you eat just a little less cause you're a bit more conscious of it and decide maybe you don't need an extra 150 calories from a taco on the side.  Or maybe you'll spend a buck extra for something just a tad healthier that still sounds good.  Those small things add up.  For those that don't look, stfu and stop making up bullshiat excuses why it will kill small businesses and make the sky fall and poison our children.

/also great for maximizing food energy per dollar!
 
2014-01-31 05:49:16 PM  

doctor wu: I always enjoy reading the delusional right wing butt-hurt in the comments below such articles.


Deluded wingnuts vote.
 
2014-01-31 05:49:48 PM  

Bareefer Obonghit: requires restaurants with 20 or more locations to list calorie-content information for each menu item on a board at every establishment.  The costs of this intrusive regulation would be passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices


The costs of  a board

THE COSTS of A BOARD


Plus keeping the info on it accurate in the face of changes to recipes, ingredients, suppliers, portion sizes, and offered dishes. Plus handling the shakedown lawsuits when enterprising trial attorneys nitpick it for flaws, or decide it isn't displayed in the legally required manner such as some jackass customer hanging his coat on it.

It's all easy when you're not the one with your ass on the line for it, meanwhile trying to keep your business in the air too.
 
2014-01-31 05:50:30 PM  

Enigmamf: I alone am best: IAmRight: sdd2000: I alone am best: When you change it you have to have the lab tell you how many calories are in your new menu item

I was responding to this in your post and the answer is no you can use any of these--including nutrient databases, cookbooks, laboratory analyses, and other reasonable means

But you guys, it's really expensive to google up nutrition facts for ingredients and know how much I use for each product I make! It could take a second-grader nearly hours to add up the numbers!

nutrient databases, cookbooks, laboratory analyses, and other reasonable means

Not

google and guesswork

Describe  one ingredient not listed in the USDA's official reference, available online, free.


Yes but adding things up is hard if you can only count to potato.
 
2014-01-31 05:50:40 PM  

Endive Wombat: Bareefer Obonghit: requires restaurants with 20 or more locations to list calorie-content information for each menu item on a board at every establishment.  The costs of this intrusive regulation would be passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices


The costs of  a board

THE COSTS of A BOARD

I was under the impression that the regulation was so poorly written that it required every possible permutation/combination which would involve hundreds of square feet of signage, even if the font was like size 9.


Then you got that impression from a strawman being propped up by fox news, possibly with Bill O'Reilly's hand up its ass.
 
2014-01-31 05:50:59 PM  

Enigmamf: Describe one ingredient not listed in the USDA's official reference, available online, free.


Jizz.

/It's for a cop.
 
2014-01-31 05:51:20 PM  
The reason for the pushback is that restaurants DO NOT want the customer to know what they are eating, because they actually might not eat it.
 
2014-01-31 05:52:04 PM  
It's amazing how many people will pretend to have never seen a menu with a calorie count on it, all while attempting to convey that they understand how business works.
 
2014-01-31 05:52:48 PM  

BSABSVR: Enigmamf: Describe one ingredient not listed in the USDA's official reference, available online, free.

Jizz.

/It's for a cop.


Right here?
 
2014-01-31 05:53:11 PM  

poot_rootbeer: New York City has had this regulation on the books for over five years now, as have  Seattle and other cities for nearly as long.  As far as I know, nobody went out of business due to compliance costs.

A well informed buyer is critical to a healthy capitalist system.


......and this is why Chicago has better pizza.
 
2014-01-31 05:53:32 PM  

clowncar on fire: MyRandomName: Bareefer Obonghit: requires restaurants with 20 or more locations to list calorie-content information for each menu item on a board at every establishment.  The costs of this intrusive regulation would be passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices


The costs of  a board

THE COSTS of A BOARD

Lawyer has pizza tested. Employee had put one more pepperoni on the slice. Lawyer sues. Not just the cost of a board.

That's not how it works.

Someone has to outraged by a continuous misrepresentation of ingredient count enough to contact a lawyer.  The lawyer would have to first determine whether there is some sort of intentional misrepresentation of the resturanteer or a institutional practice which may result in the miscount of ingredient.  After determining the validity of the complaint, the lawyer would notify the institution of the complaint thus giving them time to correct the error.

There would have to be continual and intentional disreguard of the complaint before any type of suit could b pursued and actual damages determined.


This.

And then when they try to put a dollar figure on the losses of the plaintiff, they'll get laughed out of court.
 
2014-01-31 05:54:09 PM  
Wait, so the nutritional info boards at virtually every one of these establishments are there currently just for show? I thought this was a requirement already for the most part, or at least common-sense CYA stuff from their legal teams..
 
2014-01-31 05:54:14 PM  

sdd2000: Enigmamf: I alone am best: IAmRight: sdd2000: I alone am best: When you change it you have to have the lab tell you how many calories are in your new menu item

I was responding to this in your post and the answer is no you can use any of these--including nutrient databases, cookbooks, laboratory analyses, and other reasonable means

But you guys, it's really expensive to google up nutrition facts for ingredients and know how much I use for each product I make! It could take a second-grader nearly hours to add up the numbers!

nutrient databases, cookbooks, laboratory analyses, and other reasonable means

Not

google and guesswork

Describe  one ingredient not listed in the USDA's official reference, available online, free.

Yes but adding things up is hard if you can only count to potato.


So in your expert legal opinion, when the government comes knocking you can just say "Hey, I googled it this is legit"?
 
2014-01-31 05:55:41 PM  
Anyone care that this is a 10th amendment issue?
Didn't think so.....
 
2014-01-31 05:56:05 PM  

jjorsett: Bareefer Obonghit: requires restaurants with 20 or more locations to list calorie-content information for each menu item on a board at every establishment.  The costs of this intrusive regulation would be passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices


The costs of  a board

THE COSTS of A BOARD

Plus keeping the info on it accurate in the face of changes to recipes, ingredients, suppliers, portion sizes, and offered dishes. Plus handling the shakedown lawsuits when enterprising trial attorneys nitpick it for flaws, or decide it isn't displayed in the legally required manner such as some jackass customer hanging his coat on it.

It's all easy when you're not the one with your ass on the line for it, meanwhile trying to keep your business in the air too.


Damages, cause of action?
 
2014-01-31 05:57:17 PM  

I alone am best: sdd2000: Enigmamf: I alone am best: IAmRight: sdd2000: I alone am best: When you change it you have to have the lab tell you how many calories are in your new menu item

I was responding to this in your post and the answer is no you can use any of these--including nutrient databases, cookbooks, laboratory analyses, and other reasonable means

But you guys, it's really expensive to google up nutrition facts for ingredients and know how much I use for each product I make! It could take a second-grader nearly hours to add up the numbers!

nutrient databases, cookbooks, laboratory analyses, and other reasonable means

Not

google and guesswork

Describe  one ingredient not listed in the USDA's official reference, available online, free.

Yes but adding things up is hard if you can only count to potato.

So in your expert legal opinion, when the government comes knocking you can just say "Hey, I googled it this is legit"?


It would depend on what the underlying google source was. Assuming it was the USDA database (pointed out above) I would be happy to take the case.
 
2014-01-31 05:57:40 PM  

kpaxoid: The reason for the pushback is that restaurants DO NOT want the customer to know what they are eating, because they actually might not eat it.


That's not what they are complaining about. The restaurant industry wanted more options to provide the information than a huge board posted on the premises. For example, restaurants that primarily deal with delivery. Customers would never see it. Some, like Domino's already have calculators on the website where you order pizza online. The proposed revision would also exempt places like grocery stores where less than half their revenue is prepared food. They aren't wholesale objecting to providing the information at all.
 
2014-01-31 05:59:49 PM  

Enigmamf: I alone am best: IAmRight: sdd2000: I alone am best: When you change it you have to have the lab tell you how many calories are in your new menu item

I was responding to this in your post and the answer is no you can use any of these--including nutrient databases, cookbooks, laboratory analyses, and other reasonable means

But you guys, it's really expensive to google up nutrition facts for ingredients and know how much I use for each product I make! It could take a second-grader nearly hours to add up the numbers!

nutrient databases, cookbooks, laboratory analyses, and other reasonable means

Not

google and guesswork

Describe  one ingredient not listed in the USDA's official reference, available online, free.



It doesnt matter if you can source it on the USDA's website the law is pretty clear. For fun I did source some widley used regional items in michigan and they were not on there.
 
2014-01-31 06:01:30 PM  

Nabb1: For example, restaurants that primarily deal with delivery. Customers would never see it.


Every delivery place I know of also does take out.  Little Caesars promotes their 5 buck hot n ready pizzas for carryout with tons of tv commercials recently.
 
2014-01-31 06:05:48 PM  

chitownmike: ValisIV: sufferpuppet: Ritley: What an asinine argument. The cost of a board showing nutrition info is not burdensome in any manner

How bout the cost of producing that data?    Having somebody determine the calorie counts for an entire menu.  Think that's free?

They know how many ounces of X are in each dish, and the calorie info on that is readily available. It's like you know you put 1lb of ground beef, 2 eggs, etc into your burger patties, and made 4 patties, you can do some quick maths, and find out. Chain restaurants measure everything.  Also, calorie testing is really cheap.

Who the fark puts egg, etc. in a burger? 'Cuz I will not be eating there! Burger = ground beef salt and pepper cooked for a few mins, on a bun, that's it!


You forgot the onion, and hot sauce (feel free to pick the kind you prefer) in the burger. The cheese melted on the patty. And mayonnaise, ketchup, yello mustard, dill pickles, onions, tomatoes, and bacon inside the bun.

Bread crubs and egg are prefectly fine, but non-essential ingredients.
 
2014-01-31 06:08:55 PM  

I alone am best: It doesnt matter if you can source it on the USDA's website the law is pretty clear.


You're aware that that would be a "nutrient database," right? Hence why it WOULD be acceptable?
 
2014-01-31 06:12:47 PM  

12349876: Nabb1: For example, restaurants that primarily deal with delivery. Customers would never see it.

Every delivery place I know of also does take out.  Little Caesars promotes their 5 buck hot n ready pizzas for carryout with tons of tv commercials recently.


Little Greasers doesn't deliver. And delivery customers still wouldn't see the board. I've never set foot in the Papa John's I've been ordering from for 15 years.
 
2014-01-31 06:13:27 PM  

IAmRight: I alone am best: It doesnt matter if you can source it on the USDA's website the law is pretty clear.

You're aware that that would be a "nutrient database," right? Hence why it WOULD be acceptable?


I assume because the US government is not trustworthy?

The vast majority of ingredients will be in that database. Any prepared ingredients will have the details readily available. And finding a reasonably reliable database for any others shouldn't be too hard.
 
2014-01-31 06:15:19 PM  

dywed88: IAmRight: I alone am best: It doesnt matter if you can source it on the USDA's website the law is pretty clear.

You're aware that that would be a "nutrient database," right? Hence why it WOULD be acceptable?

I assume because the US government is not trustworthy?

The vast majority of ingredients will be in that database. Any prepared ingredients will have the details readily available. And finding a reasonably reliable database for any others shouldn't be too hard.


That's really not the most reliable way to get a calorie count on specific dishes as they are prepared and served.
 
2014-01-31 06:15:32 PM  
I've also noticed more restaurants using 60" tvs as menu boards. I figure it's just a matter of time before they start jiggling the prices depending on the time of day.
 
2014-01-31 06:15:44 PM  
I'm having a hard time understanding the public objection to this.  I mean if they just don't want to know they probably have trouble reading anyway so it shouldn't be hard to ignore the sign.  If you have a restaurant chain with 20 or more locations you have the means to pay someone to calculate the caloric content of your food.  It's not super expensive to take the ingredients and and add.  I think what most chain restaurants are objecting to is publicly posting numbers that are in many cases way worse than McDonalds simply due to portion size and equally shiatty ingredients.
 
2014-01-31 06:15:48 PM  

genner: Anyone care that this is a 10th amendment issue?
Didn't think so.....


Except no it's not.  The 10th amended basically says whatever issues are not covered by federal law the states are free to do with as they see fit, unless they are prohibited from doing so.  If a federal law is passed and applied equally to all states, then it becomes an area that falls under federal jurisdiction and state law is superseded.  The 10th amendment does not confer any power to the states, it just reiterates that the federal government can't get involved in state matters unless an existing law makes it relevant at a federal level.  It was not always interpreted this way, but it is now, and has been off and on for a couple hundred years.  I don't think you'll win that argument.
 
2014-01-31 06:15:54 PM  

Nabb1: 12349876: Nabb1: For example, restaurants that primarily deal with delivery. Customers would never see it.

Every delivery place I know of also does take out.  Little Caesars promotes their 5 buck hot n ready pizzas for carryout with tons of tv commercials recently.

Little Greasers doesn't deliver. And delivery customers still wouldn't see the board. I've never set foot in the Papa John's I've been ordering from for 15 years.


The point is if you have customers in your store even if it's just take out then it's only fair that you need a damn board.
 
2014-01-31 06:16:45 PM  
It's an unfunded mandate by the gubmint for you morans who can't wipe their ass without Fadder Oobama's help.
 
2014-01-31 06:19:24 PM  

Nabb1: dywed88: IAmRight: I alone am best: It doesnt matter if you can source it on the USDA's website the law is pretty clear.

You're aware that that would be a "nutrient database," right? Hence why it WOULD be acceptable?

I assume because the US government is not trustworthy?

The vast majority of ingredients will be in that database. Any prepared ingredients will have the details readily available. And finding a reasonably reliable database for any others shouldn't be too hard.

That's really not the most reliable way to get a calorie count on specific dishes as they are prepared and served.


The law does not require absolute accuracy, only that one of the enumerated means or any reasonable means be used.
 
2014-01-31 06:22:18 PM  

Nabb1: dywed88: IAmRight: I alone am best: It doesnt matter if you can source it on the USDA's website the law is pretty clear.

You're aware that that would be a "nutrient database," right? Hence why it WOULD be acceptable?

I assume because the US government is not trustworthy?

The vast majority of ingredients will be in that database. Any prepared ingredients will have the details readily available. And finding a reasonably reliable database for any others shouldn't be too hard.

That's really not the most reliable way to get a calorie count on specific dishes as they are prepared and served.


Sure, it isn't the most reliable. But it should be "reasonably reliable"
 
2014-01-31 06:24:11 PM  
Bareefer Obonghit [TotalFark]
2014-01-31 04:00:19 PM


requires restaurants with 20 or more locations to list calorie-content information for each menu item on a board at every establishment. The costs of this intrusive regulation would be passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices


The costs of a board

THE COSTS of A BOARD

Are you really that ignorant, or just an uber-apologist?


whynotboth.jpg
 
2014-01-31 06:25:53 PM  
I'm still trying to figure out why I should be outraged again?

/Remembers this same crap from last year
 
2014-01-31 06:27:42 PM  

clowncar on fire: MyRandomName: Bareefer Obonghit: requires restaurants with 20 or more locations to list calorie-content information for each menu item on a board at every establishment.  The costs of this intrusive regulation would be passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices


The costs of  a board

THE COSTS of A BOARD

Lawyer has pizza tested. Employee had put one more pepperoni on the slice. Lawyer sues. Not just the cost of a board.

That's not how it works.

Someone has to outraged by a continuous misrepresentation of ingredient count enough to contact a lawyer.  The lawyer would have to first determine whether there is some sort of intentional misrepresentation of the resturanteer or a institutional practice which may result in the miscount of ingredient.  After determining the validity of the complaint, the lawyer would notify the institution of the complaint thus giving them time to correct the error.

There would have to be continual and intentional disreguard of the complaint before any type of suit could b pursued and actual damages determined.


Notsureifserious..

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/17/nyregion/lawyers-find-obstacles-to -t he-disabled-then-find-plaintiffs.html
 
2014-01-31 06:32:15 PM  

Rezurok: genner: Anyone care that this is a 10th amendment issue?
Didn't think so.....

Except no it's not.  The 10th amended basically says whatever issues are not covered by federal law the states are free to do with as they see fit, unless they are prohibited from doing so.  If a federal law is passed and applied equally to all states, then it becomes an area that falls under federal jurisdiction and state law is superseded.  The 10th amendment does not confer any power to the states, it just reiterates that the federal government can't get involved in state matters unless an existing law makes it relevant at a federal level.  It was not always interpreted this way, but it is now, and has been off and on for a couple hundred years.  I don't think you'll win that argument.



The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.[2]

I don't expect to win the argument It just amazes me that courts are capable of the leaps of logic it takes to reinterpret one sentence to mean the opposite of what it clearly says.
 
2014-01-31 06:32:38 PM  
passmethemalkplease.files.wordpress.com

We don't need the government telling us what's in our Malk!
 
2014-01-31 06:38:27 PM  
img.fark.net
Oblig
 
2014-01-31 06:38:32 PM  

dywed88: chitownmike: ValisIV: sufferpuppet: Ritley: What an asinine argument. The cost of a board showing nutrition info is not burdensome in any manner

How bout the cost of producing that data?    Having somebody determine the calorie counts for an entire menu.  Think that's free?

They know how many ounces of X are in each dish, and the calorie info on that is readily available. It's like you know you put 1lb of ground beef, 2 eggs, etc into your burger patties, and made 4 patties, you can do some quick maths, and find out. Chain restaurants measure everything.  Also, calorie testing is really cheap.

Who the fark puts egg, etc. in a burger? 'Cuz I will not be eating there! Burger = ground beef salt and pepper cooked for a few mins, on a bun, that's it!

You forgot the onion, and hot sauce (feel free to pick the kind you prefer) in the burger. The cheese melted on the patty. And mayonnaise, ketchup, yello mustard, dill pickles, onions, tomatoes, and bacon inside the bun.

Bread crubs and egg are prefectly fine, but non-essential ingredients.


That's meatloaf
 
2014-01-31 06:39:47 PM  

Cagey B: cman: I see it as a BS argument, but to be fair, you would be surprised how much something like this could cost

Try me. Whatever it is I'm sure will bankrupt utterly a business with at least twenty operating restaurants.


Regardless . It is an unnecessary  regulation  imposing a cost  easily dismissed as a non-issue by those who do not have to pay  for comply with it.  The majority of people who buy pizza really don't care about  the nutritional info and the very very small minority who do are not worth the costs.

This is sort of like supporting raising taxes you don't have to pay or "free stuff" government you don't have to pay for.

The politician who promises to rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the vote of Paul
 
2014-01-31 06:40:44 PM  

hasty ambush: Cagey B: cman: I see it as a BS argument, but to be fair, you would be surprised how much something like this could cost

Try me. Whatever it is I'm sure will bankrupt utterly a business with at least twenty operating restaurants.

Regardless . It is an unnecessary  regulation  imposing a cost  easily dismissed as a non-issue by those who do not have to pay  for comply with it.  The majority of people who buy pizza really don't care about  the nutritional info and the very very small minority who do are not worth the costs.

This is sort of like supporting raising taxes you don't have to pay or "free stuff" government you don't have to pay for.

The politician who promises to rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the vote of Paul


Who is Peter and who is Paul?
 
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