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(Yahoo)   Knox Knox.. who's there? Raffaele Sollecito arrested at the Austrian border   (uk.news.yahoo.com) divider line 44
    More: Followup, killer, identity document, Perugia, Virgin Media, borders  
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6892 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jan 2014 at 9:46 AM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-01-31 09:48:37 AM
8 votes:
Say what you want about the American justice system, but this case is a prime example of why Double Jeopardy is a valuable thing.
2014-01-31 10:08:15 AM
7 votes:
Read about the facts of the case.
Read about the man currently in prison for the murder and his first confessions, then his later story.
Read about the prosecution's theory of the case
Read about the prosecutor and what a crazy wing nut he is.

Then come here and tell me you think either of these people are guilty and back it up with facts.

Go on, I dare you.

/farkin witch hunt loving morons.
2014-01-31 10:05:38 AM
6 votes:

raatz01: Poor bastard.


Thats just it. The Italians were hell bent on railroading these kids because they couldn't be bothered to do anything in the way of a real investigation, not to mention the Prosecutor openly stating that he couldn't prosecute an actual Italian national as it would make him look bad. The original prosecutor was so utterly convinced of his "theory" (which was a bizarre scenario based in his belief of how Americans really were from various b-grade movies and such) that he was almost eager to dismiss the actual physical evidence, and actually tried to have it suppressed in court while replacing it with some seriously outrageous conjecture on his part. He was also trying to redeem himself and regain credibility, as he had already used the scenario he prosecuted Knox with in several other trials and was under some serious scrutiny over malfeasances related to that. His entire case was circumstantial and required the physical evidence to be dismissed out of hand to believe.

The actual killer only got 7 years. They know he did it, and they went ahead and prosecuted the American anyway, because there are a lot of Italian folks who will always presume that Americans are really a bunch of Satan worshipers and homicidal sex maniacs. It made for good headlines, and the Prosecutor regained his credibility.
2014-01-31 10:02:04 AM
5 votes:
HotWingConspiracy:
Do you really think people here are going to be ok with shipping her off to an Italian prison after their bizarre 3rd world justice system decided they were going to convict on a do over?

Not to mention that this is a country that jailed geologists for failing to predict an earthquake.  As much contempt I have for our own justice system, theirs is FAR worse, and demonstrably so.  No way in hell I'd extradite anyone to Italy if it were up to me.
2014-01-31 10:50:29 AM
3 votes:

Jizz Master Zero: Having noticed this guy and a few of his comments in a few threads for the first time yesterday, I've been wondering which of those was true. I've come to the conclusion that it's probably both; about 75% the former and 25% the latter. Either way he obviously adds nothing to the conversation, so why don't we all do the right thing and just put him on ignore, shall we?


In general, I suspect that most trolls are also fools, because people tend to seek negative attention mostly when they're incapable of providing anything that allows them to receive positive attention.  Not absolute by any stretch of the imagination, but I suspect that it applies here.
2014-01-31 09:59:38 AM
3 votes:

WinoRhino: HotWingConspiracy: Extraditing her will cause a political crisis.

How do you figure?


Do you really think people here are going to be ok with shipping her off to an Italian prison after their bizarre 3rd world justice system decided they were going to convict on a do over?
2014-01-31 12:31:46 PM
2 votes:
There is zero (0%) chance that Amanda is extradited to Italy.

No judge or politician is going to throw away their political career to send a young American woman, perceived innocent by the American populace, to rot in a foreign prison.
2014-01-31 11:48:14 AM
2 votes:

walktoanarcade: mudesi: Amanda Knox needs to stop doing interviews. Seriously.

They have no evidence and botched the whole investigation and the prosecutor is a lunatic and the entire justice system over there is a joke.

Yet when Amanda talks, I swear I think she's guilty. Anybody see her this morning on GMA? She was crying, but no tears were coming out of her eyes. There's just something...off...about her.

That's my biggest problem with her new appearances. Yes.


I think that was part of her problem to begin with -- she just presents herself oddly. In a way she reminds me of some of the kids on the spectrum at my son's school (no, I'm NOT saying she's on the spectrum, just drawing a comparison) in the way that they don't quite seem to really get what "appropriate" reactions to something are, and often have to learn to do them by rote. None of which means they're more likely to kill someone or have magical DNA-erasing powers, but for someone who doesn't know much about the case, unfortunately they're likely to look at her and think "There's something off about that chick."

Of course, the five years of being internationally reviled as a witch and four years in prison probably didn't help her presentation either.
2014-01-31 11:43:06 AM
2 votes:
Amanda Knox needs to stop doing interviews. Seriously.

They have no evidence and botched the whole investigation and the prosecutor is a lunatic and the entire justice system over there is a joke.

Yet when Amanda talks, I swear I think she's guilty. Anybody see her this morning on GMA? She was crying, but no tears were coming out of her eyes. There's just something...off...about her.
2014-01-31 11:27:43 AM
2 votes:

MagicianNamedGob: walktoanarcade: MagicianNamedGob: walktoanarcade: Differing opinions sure do smart, eh?

Ow ow ow..;

Her story is unbelievable. She either helped or watched, albeit stoney-eyed.

Explain the logic underlying that conclusion, if you can.

All right. When the story first broke, I remember her saying that she was there, but too drugged out to do any killing, then her story changed to her not being there at all.

She has always said she was at Sollecito's apartment. She never said she was in the room at the time of the murder - except once, according to police. The police claimed she made statements to that effect, but they abused her into giving a false statement. They questioned her for hours, deprived her of sleep and food, promised her she wasn't a suspect and could go if she told them what they wanted to hear, and then made her sign a statement in Italian while in that condition, without a translator, and without ever seeing an attorney. The statement named an innocent man as the killer and was completely wrong. The police fed her the innocent man's name (it was her boss at the bar where she worked) because they found texts between them sent shortly before the murder. The police then promptly "lost" the interrogation tapes. They kept their signed statement though.


If that's all true, then she's been railroaded, and it's a travesty of injustice.

The losing of the tapes sounds oh so convenient I must admit.
2014-01-31 11:15:07 AM
2 votes:

walktoanarcade: MagicianNamedGob: walktoanarcade: Differing opinions sure do smart, eh?

Ow ow ow..;

Her story is unbelievable. She either helped or watched, albeit stoney-eyed.

Explain the logic underlying that conclusion, if you can.

All right. When the story first broke, I remember her saying that she was there, but too drugged out to do any killing, then her story changed to her not being there at all.


She has always said she was at Sollecito's apartment. She never said she was in the room at the time of the murder - except once, according to police. The police claimed she made statements to that effect, but they abused her into giving a false statement. They questioned her for hours, deprived her of sleep and food, promised her she wasn't a suspect and could go if she told them what they wanted to hear, and then made her sign a statement in Italian while in that condition, without a translator, and without ever seeing an attorney. The statement named an innocent man as the killer and was completely wrong. The police fed her the innocent man's name (it was her boss at the bar where she worked) because they found texts between them sent shortly before the murder. The police then promptly "lost" the interrogation tapes. They kept their signed statement though.
2014-01-31 10:37:06 AM
2 votes:

Por que tan serioso: the8re: It's simple: if other countries won't extradite to the US because capital punishment, then we should refuse to export Amanda because FARK YOU THAT'S WHY! double jeopardy.

Except that, as has been stated many many many times, it is not double jeopardy. At all. According to American law. Or Italian.


Double Jeopardy protection kicks in the minute there is a verdict of Not Guilty.  So long as that verdict was made by a court which had jurisdiction at the time then that's it.

The only way this wouldn't be Double Jeopardy as the US defines it is if the higher Italian court overturned the Not Guilty verdict because the lower court was bribed or similar.  If there was a risk she could have been convicted (or was "in jeopardy") and then she wasn't then the protection stands.

walktoanarcade: Someone REALLY wants to bang her. ;)

Anyway, there's no way she didn't know of or participate in the murder, and if the accused were a male or ugly woman, no one would care.

If the killing took place inside an epically huge mansion, then maybe I would believe her bullshiat story.


4/10.  Might get a few nibbles, but anybody who spent more than about five minutes reading the details of the events is going to know better.
Ant
2014-01-31 10:34:56 AM
2 votes:

walktoanarcade: Someone REALLY wants to bang her. ;)


This attitude is really tiring, and I'm sick of hearing it. The only reason to defend someone is because you want to have sex with them? Talk about projection. Maybe the only reason you would speak in support of someone is because you want to bang them, but not everyone is you.
2014-01-31 09:50:39 AM
2 votes:
Poor bastard.
2014-01-31 02:29:31 PM
1 votes:

Kentucky Fried Children: If Knox was a smart girl, the minute she was released after the first jail stint she would've moved to a country with no extradition treaty with the Italians. But she didn't, and chose to stay in the US where we have a strong bilateral history of extradition with them.

Stupid.


She's not getting extradited and she knows it.
2014-01-31 01:41:39 PM
1 votes:
Being rude, socially gauche and behaving inappropriately does not make her a murderer. It makes her a fairly typical university student by UK standards, and I suspect by US standards too.
The prosecutor and the cops who terrorised that confession out of her need to be kicked repeatedly in the bollocks by David Beckham wearing steel toecap boots. With a long run up.

/Kercher's Dad is a tabloid journalist. Food for thought...
2014-01-31 01:21:16 PM
1 votes:

jaytkay: The UK press has really whipped up a hate fest for Knox.

Is that just the tabloids or do the real new outlets agree?


That's not a big surprise. The victim's father is a tabloid journalist.
2014-01-31 12:49:57 PM
1 votes:

CleanAndPure: BgJonson79: Por que tan serioso: mjbok: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Her guilty verdict was over-turned and she was acquitted.  You are wrong.  http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox/

Nope. I afraid we have reached the point in a fark thread where i can continue to explain it but I will never be able to understand it for you.

So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

Translation mishap. America doesn't really have an equivalent term.

Her "acquittal" was more of a mistrial verdict. Which even in America would lead to a retrial. It wasn't actually a not guilty verdict but it did give her the right to travel, etc.

It feels like double jeopardy... but there again the OJ case seems very similar to me. Would be clear cut if police didn't bumble around and give defense an out. Found not guilty but then found guilty in a civic trial?

After reading news in three different languages from different countries... yes I think she is guilty... almost certainly of murder... but if not, she's covering something up and I think even her defenders would agree she is a compulsive liar...

I do think the prosecution are complete f-ups and the trial has been an utter disaster.

If she were tried in this country she would probably be able to claim temporary insanity and get out in a month.


Your understanding of the American judicial system is lacking.
2014-01-31 12:41:21 PM
1 votes:
Extraditing her won't cause a political crisis because it will never happen.
2014-01-31 12:23:11 PM
1 votes:
People seem convinced that Austria is some sort of impregnable fortress where Sollecito'd have been safe forever. Somehow I doubt that Austria would have very many qualms at all about shipping his ass straight back to their next-door neighbor.
2014-01-31 12:10:34 PM
1 votes:

Oldiron_79: So just out of curosity what is Nancy Grace saying about this one?


who cares what that gasseous windbag has to say?
2014-01-31 12:09:49 PM
1 votes:

walktoanarcade: I matter so little you just had to tell me so. ;)

Unlike most of you, my manner isn't the same for every thread because every thread is different. I put far more work into some posts than others, that's for sure.


I don't think you're a troll at all.  People just don't like different opinions and hate it when people aren't bothered when they call them a troll.

As a viewer, when someone immediately calls troll, I tend to re-read their posts carefully.  Nothing you have done seems trollish at all.  It just seems your opinion is that she's guilty, regardless whether she's hot or not.

Nothing wrong with that and anyone who calls you a troll should really stop being so closed-minded.

I don't know if she did it or not, but she should just go away and hide for a bit.  Name change, move somewhere else, I dunno.
2014-01-31 11:56:02 AM
1 votes:

yukichigai: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Uh yes, actually she was.  It was a formal acquittal, i.e. the jury found her not guilty.


Alan Dershowitz disagrees.
2014-01-31 11:52:08 AM
1 votes:

RenownedCurator: walktoanarcade: mudesi: Amanda Knox needs to stop doing interviews. Seriously.

They have no evidence and botched the whole investigation and the prosecutor is a lunatic and the entire justice system over there is a joke.

Yet when Amanda talks, I swear I think she's guilty. Anybody see her this morning on GMA? She was crying, but no tears were coming out of her eyes. There's just something...off...about her.

That's my biggest problem with her new appearances. Yes.

I think that was part of her problem to begin with -- she just presents herself oddly. In a way she reminds me of some of the kids on the spectrum at my son's school (no, I'm NOT saying she's on the spectrum, just drawing a comparison) in the way that they don't quite seem to really get what "appropriate" reactions to something are, and often have to learn to do them by rote. None of which means they're more likely to kill someone or have magical DNA-erasing powers, but for someone who doesn't know much about the case, unfortunately they're likely to look at her and think "There's something off about that chick."

Of course, the five years of being internationally reviled as a witch and four years in prison probably didn't help her presentation either.


I don't know...If you saw her on GMA this morning, I swear she looked like she was fake crying. It's possible she was involved in this murder, but they most certainly can't prove it.
2014-01-31 11:45:21 AM
1 votes:

walktoanarcade: SurelyShirley: SlothB77: He had apparently crossed over the border into Austria late last night - but returned to Italy of his own accord, Sky's Nick Pisa said.


dumbass.

I don't know, 28 years in prison vs living in Austria? Tough choice.

Seriously. Austria makes those that wish to divorce wait six months.


Sollecito strikes me as having a serious case of Honour Before Reason. I get that he wants his name cleared and he's been railroaded to hell and back, but seriously, once you're out of the country, STAY OUT. Though I'm pretty sure Austria would have extradited him to Italy in any case, he could have gone from there to somewhere less friendly to Italian "justice" at the moment.
2014-01-31 11:42:51 AM
1 votes:

walktoanarcade: Whoops, "contrary to their position,..doesn't scare me off."

Grow some thicker skin, some of you.




www.tacomaworld.com
2014-01-31 11:30:34 AM
1 votes:

discount sushi: ShadowKamui: jaytkay: The UK press has really whipped up a hate fest for Knox.

Is that just the tabloids or do the real new outlets agree?

Just the tabloids, the BBC has the whole write-up about how the police sucked and failed forensics 101

In their article on her conviction yesterday they conveniently left out that Rudy Guede had been found guilty of the murder and his hand print in the victims blood was found at the scene along with a bloody footprint. I don't know how Knox gets convicted when the only physical evidence points to someone else. A lot of the coverage leaves out that crucial part.


As mentioned by parties on all sides of this -- the burglar vagrant man raping and murdering a woman angle is nowhere as lurid or headline-inspiring as the Privileged-Imperialist-American-Sex-Murdering-Sociopath-Femme-Fatale-S atanist-Orgy-Murder angle.

The only difference is: some people note that there's no public, physical evidence of her involvement or proximity in a gruesome stabbing and murder, only of the one guy who's already in prison, and some people say they just know that she's guilty because she has that look in her eye and was just obviously there.
2014-01-31 11:24:27 AM
1 votes:

ShadowKamui: jaytkay: The UK press has really whipped up a hate fest for Knox.

Is that just the tabloids or do the real new outlets agree?

Just the tabloids, the BBC has the whole write-up about how the police sucked and failed forensics 101




In their article on her conviction yesterday they conveniently left out that Rudy Guede had been found guilty of the murder and his hand print in the victims blood was found at the scene along with a bloody footprint. I don't know how Knox gets convicted when the only physical evidence points to someone else. A lot of the coverage leaves out that crucial part.
2014-01-31 11:19:03 AM
1 votes:

Kentucky Fried Children: If Knox was a smart girl, the minute she was released after the first jail stint she would've moved to a country with no extradition treaty with the Italians.


Moving to a country with no extradition treaty isn't the escape route a lot of people think it is.  Extradition treaties work both ways, as in they can allow for extradition and they can also prevent it, and they generally force the countries in question to handle the matter in a civilised fashion and in a reasonable amount of time.

Just because a country doesn't have an extradition treaty with another does  not mean they won't extradite, but it  does mean someone is subject to that country's own legal system with no protection of a treaty.  More than a few people in situations like this one have run off to countries without bilateral treaties and have found the country where they were convicted still requests extradition and the "no treaty" country just tosses them in a local hellhole prison for several years while they figure out what to do.  It's not a get out of jail free card.

But she didn't, and chose to stay in the US where we have a strong bilateral history of extradition with them.

My guess in this case, although I haven't read the treaty in question, is that there is probably something in there about refusing extradition if the trial in Italy would have been illegal by USA laws, which this would have been due to the Double Jeopardy clause.
Ant
2014-01-31 11:05:12 AM
1 votes:

walktoanarcade: You're annoyed because not only do I have the gall to disagree, but I refuse to make myself a clone of you or your cronies.


What's annoying is that you seem to be taking the opposite stance because you think it makes you look smart. It doesn't.
Ant
2014-01-31 10:56:14 AM
1 votes:

walktoanarcade: Whoops, "contrary to their position,..doesn't scare me off."


Contrary, with good arguments is OK. Contrary with bad arguments, or contrary just for the sake of holding an opposing view is annoying.
2014-01-31 10:54:02 AM
1 votes:

Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.


Her guilty verdict was over-turned and she was acquitted.  You are wrong.  http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox/
2014-01-31 10:45:21 AM
1 votes:

walktoanarcade: Differing opinions sure do smart, eh?


Not at all, I feel rather satisfied.  I didn't assume anything about you until you incrementally showed what you were.  If anyone was to bother to read the series of exchanges, they'd see one person interested in thinking and one person determined not to.  Troll or fool, the reason doesn't matter anywhere near as much as the observable behavior.
2014-01-31 10:43:25 AM
1 votes:

jonas opines: walktoanarcade: It's a message board with different opinions. You're trying to control what I read and what I type, seek help.

Or you know, you could chat with someone else.


/she's not going to let you bang her
Yes, as you see I am either an idiot or a troll.

FTFY.

In the end, the truth reveals itself, I suppose.


Having noticed this guy and a few of his comments in a few threads for the first time yesterday, I've been wondering which of those was true. I've come to the conclusion that it's probably both; about 75% the former and 25% the latter. Either way he obviously adds nothing to the conversation, so why don't we all do the right thing and just put him on ignore, shall we?
2014-01-31 10:40:27 AM
1 votes:

mjbok: walktoanarcade: Someone REALLY wants to bang her. ;)

Anyway, there's no way she didn't know of or participate in the murder, and if the accused were a male or ugly woman, no one would care.

If the killing took place inside an epically huge mansion, then maybe I would believe her bullshiat story.

I watched a news magazine (20/20?) special on this case around the time that the appeal found her not guilty.  The case was absolutely batshiat insane.  The prosecutor has some kind of fascination with Satanic rituals and has a history of trying to tie cases to satanism.  It was a miscarriage of justice from start to finish.  Anything that makes me glad to have the US justice system is fatally flawed.


If she's innocent, then here's to hoping she has the brains to get some modest plastic surgery and disappear into the fabric of either Canada or the U.S.
2014-01-31 10:22:24 AM
1 votes:

the8re: It's simple: if other countries won't extradite to the US because capital punishment, then we should refuse to export Amanda because FARK YOU THAT'S WHY! double jeopardy.


Except that, as has been stated many many many times, it is not double jeopardy. At all. According to American law. Or Italian.
2014-01-31 10:19:20 AM
1 votes:
If Knox was a smart girl, the minute she was released after the first jail stint she would've moved to a country with no extradition treaty with the Italians. But she didn't, and chose to stay in the US where we have a strong bilateral history of extradition with them.

Stupid.
2014-01-31 10:15:58 AM
1 votes:
It's simple: if other countries won't extradite to the US because capital punishment, then we should refuse to export Amanda because FARK YOU THAT'S WHY! double jeopardy.
2014-01-31 10:10:40 AM
1 votes:

whitman00: Read about the facts of the case.
Read about the man currently in prison for the murder and his first confessions, then his later story.
Read about the prosecution's theory of the case
Read about the prosecutor and what a crazy wing nut he is.

Then come here and tell me you think either of these people are guilty and back it up with facts.

Go on, I dare you.

/farkin witch hunt loving morons.


In Italy, a prosecutor can make up whatever "theory" about the case he wants, and then manufacture evidence he needs to support it. It is legal to do that there. Napoleonic Law.
2014-01-31 10:08:41 AM
1 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: The American people are going to take it up the pooper on everything else without lube, but WILL absolutely throw everything thing away to defend the honor of attractive murderous poonawny aka Amanda Knox, you heard it from HotWingConspiracy first.

You don't seem to be quoting me here.


11-26-13 - one of the fall batch of alt trolls.
2014-01-31 10:04:33 AM
1 votes:

walktoanarcade: The American people are going to take it up the pooper on everything else without lube, but WILL absolutely throw everything thing away to defend the honor of attractive murderous poonawny aka Amanda Knox, you heard it from HotWingConspiracy first.


You don't seem to be quoting me here.
2014-01-31 09:55:45 AM
1 votes:
I'll comfort Amanda if she needs it.
2014-01-31 09:54:43 AM
1 votes:
www.pepperidgefarm.com

RIP Mr. Sausalito
2014-01-31 09:51:07 AM
1 votes:
Extraditing her will cause a political crisis.
 
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