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(Yahoo)   Knox Knox.. who's there? Raffaele Sollecito arrested at the Austrian border   (uk.news.yahoo.com) divider line 234
    More: Followup, killer, identity document, Perugia, Virgin Media, borders  
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6892 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jan 2014 at 9:46 AM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-31 12:04:10 PM  

Por que tan serioso: yukichigai: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Uh yes, actually she was.  It was a formal acquittal, i.e. the jury found her not guilty.

Alan Dershowitz disagrees.


I gave a GED in law, and even I know that Knox wasn't found not guilty and acquitted.
 
2014-01-31 12:05:39 PM  

Watubi: Kit Fister: Say what you want about the American justice system, but this case is a prime example of why Double Jeopardy is a valuable thing.

This also lets you write books called, If I Did It


Better than a hundred guilty men go free than one innocent man go to prison.
 
2014-01-31 12:06:11 PM  
So just out of curosity what is Nancy Grace saying about this one?
 
2014-01-31 12:06:20 PM  

Kit Fister: Watubi: Kit Fister: Say what you want about the American justice system, but this case is a prime example of why Double Jeopardy is a valuable thing.

This also lets you write books called, If I Did It

Better that a hundred guilty men go free than one innocent man go to prison.


ftfm
 
2014-01-31 12:07:00 PM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: BgJonson79:
So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

It's more like when someone in the U.S. gets a conviction turned over on appeal. It's not an acquittal and the case can be retried if the prosecution decides to do so. Double Jeopardy is not attached. Which is why people need to stop talking about double jeopardy being a reason she won't be extradited. It just doesn't apply.


You sir, are correct.
 
2014-01-31 12:08:10 PM  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctpv_OtJVjk

Her whole manner is off and fake.  The doubts were piling up and I picked a video that was not advertized as a pure slam against her, although "I feel bad for my younger self." is a weird statement to make.

Shiat, I never feel bad for my past self because he does not exist, the past like the future is an illusion, here I am, same as ever, though aging on a cellular level.
 
2014-01-31 12:09:03 PM  
I think that there is an exception in the treaties that would allow for denial of extradition. I can't find it at the moment but I did hear it referenced on more than one news outlet.
 
2014-01-31 12:09:49 PM  

walktoanarcade: I matter so little you just had to tell me so. ;)

Unlike most of you, my manner isn't the same for every thread because every thread is different. I put far more work into some posts than others, that's for sure.


I don't think you're a troll at all.  People just don't like different opinions and hate it when people aren't bothered when they call them a troll.

As a viewer, when someone immediately calls troll, I tend to re-read their posts carefully.  Nothing you have done seems trollish at all.  It just seems your opinion is that she's guilty, regardless whether she's hot or not.

Nothing wrong with that and anyone who calls you a troll should really stop being so closed-minded.

I don't know if she did it or not, but she should just go away and hide for a bit.  Name change, move somewhere else, I dunno.
 
2014-01-31 12:10:34 PM  

Oldiron_79: So just out of curosity what is Nancy Grace saying about this one?


who cares what that gasseous windbag has to say?
 
2014-01-31 12:10:50 PM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: Por que tan serioso: yukichigai: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Uh yes, actually she was.  It was a formal acquittal, i.e. the jury found her not guilty.

Alan Dershowitz disagrees.

I gave a GED in law, and even I know that Knox wasn't found not guilty and acquitted.


Well I threw up AD because he is know world wide as advocate for wrongfully convicted murderers and even he is saying she is likely farked. That way we can save some bandwidth for Zimmerman arguments and such.
 
2014-01-31 12:10:53 PM  
Is Amanda Knox right or left-handed?
 
2014-01-31 12:12:03 PM  

walktoanarcade: mudesi: Amanda Knox needs to stop doing interviews. Seriously.

They have no evidence and botched the whole investigation and the prosecutor is a lunatic and the entire justice system over there is a joke.

Yet when Amanda talks, I swear I think she's guilty. Anybody see her this morning on GMA? She was crying, but no tears were coming out of her eyes. There's just something...off...about her.

That's my biggest problem with her new appearances. Yes.


You guys watch GMA?
 
2014-01-31 12:13:40 PM  

WhoGAS: walktoanarcade: I matter so little you just had to tell me so. ;)

Unlike most of you, my manner isn't the same for every thread because every thread is different. I put far more work into some posts than others, that's for sure.

I don't think you're a troll at all.  People just don't like different opinions and hate it when people aren't bothered when they call them a troll.

As a viewer, when someone immediately calls troll, I tend to re-read their posts carefully.  Nothing you have done seems trollish at all.  It just seems your opinion is that she's guilty, regardless whether she's hot or not.

Nothing wrong with that and anyone who calls you a troll should really stop being so closed-minded.

I don't know if she did it or not, but she should just go away and hide for a bit.  Name change, move somewhere else, I dunno.


Thank you; you made my day. :)  I mean it, I'll buy you a friggen steak dinner for saying that if I ever get the chance.  I appreciate good readers!
 
2014-01-31 12:14:40 PM  

Rapmaster2000: walktoanarcade: mudesi: Amanda Knox needs to stop doing interviews. Seriously.

They have no evidence and botched the whole investigation and the prosecutor is a lunatic and the entire justice system over there is a joke.

Yet when Amanda talks, I swear I think she's guilty. Anybody see her this morning on GMA? She was crying, but no tears were coming out of her eyes. There's just something...off...about her.

That's my biggest problem with her new appearances. Yes.

You guys watch GMA?


Clips, sure now and then like anyone. The full show? Not since the 1980s.
 
2014-01-31 12:17:31 PM  

FnkyTwn: Who the fark defended Casey Anthony other than her lawyer? Everybody knew she was guilty. Was she smoking hot, hells yes, but that didn't change anybody's opinion that she killed her daughter other than maybe a handful of crazy people who probably also defend Michael Jackson.

You're an idiot.

Some drifter with a history of breaking into homes broke into their apartment and raped and killed Kercher, and Knox and Sollecito decided to participate? What world do you live in?


Yo!

I was a bit cynical towards the Casey Anthony prosecution, mainly from them announcing they would be going for the death penalty on her despite not even having a body, proof of death, or cause of death at the time.

Now, I have no doubt she disposed of the body / knew the kid was dead but they still don't even have a cause of death.  My bet would be that the cause of death was accidental or even natural but Anthony, being a complete and total idiot / substance abuser panicked and though that hiding the body and lying about what happened was a safer bet then admitting the kid died due to neglect/accident.
 
2014-01-31 12:18:02 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: WinoRhino: HotWingConspiracy: WinoRhino: HotWingConspiracy: Extraditing her will cause a political crisis.

How do you figure?

Do you really think people here are going to be ok with shipping her off to an Italian prison after their bizarre 3rd world justice system decided they were going to convict on a do over?

Do you actually think she's going anywhere? They will request extradition. The USA, due to our standards of justice (protection from double jeopardy) will simply deny the request. It's actually a perfectly acceptable thing to do according to the existing treaties that are in place. The end.

A rather experienced lawyer disagrees with your take.


Dershowitz is good, I'd probably want to hire him if I had the money and got in serious legal trouble. However, like anyone else, he's been known to be wrong. There's also the reality that the US simply flouts laws it finds inconvenient. Hence neither Henry Kissinger nor Dick Cheney will ever be arraigned at the Hague.
 
2014-01-31 12:18:45 PM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: BgJonson79:
So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

It's more like when someone in the U.S. gets a conviction turned over on appeal. It's not an acquittal and the case can be retried if the prosecution decides to do so. Double Jeopardy is not attached. Which is why people need to stop talking about double jeopardy being a reason she won't be extradited. It just doesn't apply.


That only applies when the decision is overturned on some procedural grounds or in other very specific circumstances.  In this case, the judge explicitly said that he was acquitting Knox because the prosecution's case didn't even remotely prove Knox was involved.  That's not procedural, that's a finding of fact.  In the US if that happens it takes some very contorted circumstances where that doesn't invoke Double Jeopardy.


Por que tan serioso: yukichigai: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Uh yes, actually she was.  It was a formal acquittal, i.e. the jury found her not guilty.

Alan Dershowitz disagrees.


The only thing Dershowitz says on the topic is that the US-Italy treaty only explicitly mentions double jeopardy as a reason for rejecting an extradition request if the crime was already tried in a US court.  He says nothing on the result of the appeal itself, just what can be expected to follow.

Bizarrely, he also seems convinced that the evidence against her is "strong", despite the only things he can point to being her alleged statement that she was there and someone else did it, and the fact that the story later "changed".  Y'know, the statement signed possibly under duress after a 50 hour interrogation where the tapes of said interrogation magically went missing?
 
2014-01-31 12:22:32 PM  
walktoanarcade:

Clips, sure now and then like anyone. The full show? Not since the 1980s.

I certainly hope not.  I hope that only 10% of the population regularly watches anything from a morning soft-news show.  GMA is like Inside Edition with a larger budget.
 
2014-01-31 12:23:11 PM  
People seem convinced that Austria is some sort of impregnable fortress where Sollecito'd have been safe forever. Somehow I doubt that Austria would have very many qualms at all about shipping his ass straight back to their next-door neighbor.
 
2014-01-31 12:23:33 PM  

Kit Fister: Oldiron_79: So just out of curosity what is Nancy Grace saying about this one?

who cares what that gasseous windbag has to say?


Honestly not me I was just trolling because invoking her name starts a flame war.
 
2014-01-31 12:25:42 PM  

Rapmaster2000: walktoanarcade:

Clips, sure now and then like anyone. The full show? Not since the 1980s.

I certainly hope not.  I hope that only 10% of the population regularly watches anything from a morning soft-news show.  GMA is like Inside Edition with a larger budget.


No, argument here, but if an alleged killer is interviewed on their show..
 
2014-01-31 12:27:28 PM  

BigNumber12: People seem convinced that Austria is some sort of impregnable fortress where Sollecito'd have been safe forever. Somehow I doubt that Austria would have very many qualms at all about shipping his ass straight back to their next-door neighbor.


They don't. Austria's motto may as well be: "Tough Shiat, follow strict rules or leave/die"
 
2014-01-31 12:30:51 PM  

Cold_Sassy: raatz01: Poor bastard.

^^^^
This.  That whole trial was a joke.  The crime scene was contaminated and they had no forensic proof. He should've stayed in Austria.  I know I darn sure would've.  If I was Amanda, I'd go somewhere other than Seattle and keep it quiet.


She did an interview on national TV this morning.  Not so good at hiding.
 
2014-01-31 12:31:46 PM  
There is zero (0%) chance that Amanda is extradited to Italy.

No judge or politician is going to throw away their political career to send a young American woman, perceived innocent by the American populace, to rot in a foreign prison.
 
2014-01-31 12:33:16 PM  

yukichigai: Some Bass Playing Guy: BgJonson79:
So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

It's more like when someone in the U.S. gets a conviction turned over on appeal. It's not an acquittal and the case can be retried if the prosecution decides to do so. Double Jeopardy is not attached. Which is why people need to stop talking about double jeopardy being a reason she won't be extradited. It just doesn't apply.

That only applies when the decision is overturned on some procedural grounds or in other very specific circumstances.  In this case, the judge explicitly said that he was acquitting Knox because the prosecution's case didn't even remotely prove Knox was involved.  That's not procedural, that's a finding of fact.  In the US if that happens it takes some very contorted circumstances where that doesn't invoke Double Jeopardy.


Por que tan serioso: yukichigai: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Uh yes, actually she was.  It was a formal acquittal, i.e. the jury found her not guilty.

Alan Dershowitz disagrees.

The only thing Dershowitz says on the topic is that the US-Italy treaty only explicitly mentions double jeopardy as a reason for rejecting an extradition request if the crime was already tried in a US court.  He says nothing on the result of the appeal itself, just what can be expected to follow.

Bizarrely, he also seems convinced that the evidence against her is "strong", despite the only things he can point to being her alleged statement that she was there and someone else did it, and the fact that the story later "changed".  Y'know, the statement signed possibly under duress after a 50 hour interrogation where the tapes of said interrogation magically went missing?


There are many nuances in the case. However, double jeopardy simply does not apply in this case(.)
 
Ant
2014-01-31 12:34:39 PM  

mudesi: Yet when Amanda talks, I swear I think she's guilty. Anybody see her this morning on GMA? She was crying, but no tears were coming out of her eyes. There's just something...off...about her.


So what? Not everyone has the same emotional response to every situation. Were I in her shoes, I'd probably have part of my mind telling me that I didn't look sad enough. That would prompt me to try to look sadder, which would cause me to look like I was faking my responses. This is just how my brain works.
 
2014-01-31 12:34:59 PM  

RectalDamage: There is zero (0%) chance that Amanda is extradited to Italy.

No judge or politician is going to throw away their political career to send a young American woman, perceived innocent by the American populace, to rot in a foreign prison.


I wonder if the Italian Supreme Court is going to use that logic as well.
"If we find her innocent we'd look bad to Italians, but since the US isn't likely to extradite her we can just find her guilty without her having to go to jail.  Win win!"
 
2014-01-31 12:35:39 PM  

walktoanarcade: BigNumber12: People seem convinced that Austria is some sort of impregnable fortress where Sollecito'd have been safe forever. Somehow I doubt that Austria would have very many qualms at all about shipping his ass straight back to their next-door neighbor.

They don't. Austria's motto may as well be: "Tough Shiat, follow strict rules or leave/die"


That's what I mean. I didn't get any impression while there of their being the sort of place that would make a principled stand on something like this - particularly not for a foreigner.
 
2014-01-31 12:37:59 PM  

RectalDamage: There is zero (0%) chance that Amanda is extradited to Italy.

No judge or politician is going to throw away their political career to send a young American woman, perceived innocent by the American populace, to rot in a foreign prison.


Exactly this. Whatever the convoluted particulars of Italian law, this is far too close to (American) Double Jeopardy for any American Politician to want to stick their neck out and support.
 
Ant
2014-01-31 12:38:47 PM  

RenownedCurator: In a way she reminds me of some of the kids on the spectrum at my son's school (no, I'm NOT saying she's on the spectrum, just drawing a comparison) in the way that they don't quite seem to really get what "appropriate" reactions to something are, and often have to learn to do them by rote.


I think I have that. I'd be farked in the court of public opinion if I was ever accused of anything serious. I'd probably look like I was guilty of something.

That's why I hate it when people say things like "his/her reactions just seemed off"
 
2014-01-31 12:41:21 PM  
Extraditing her won't cause a political crisis because it will never happen.
 
2014-01-31 12:41:54 PM  
I'm curious what the Italian perspective is on this.  I live in the Seattle media market, so I have no illusions that I'm not getting a slanted view of things.  Does the Italian public think this is all legit?

/I realize public sentiment does not equal guilt
//Locals might have a sense on how screwed up their legal system is.
 
2014-01-31 12:42:14 PM  

BgJonson79: Por que tan serioso: mjbok: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Her guilty verdict was over-turned and she was acquitted.  You are wrong.  http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox/

Nope. I afraid we have reached the point in a fark thread where i can continue to explain it but I will never be able to understand it for you.

So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?


Translation mishap. America doesn't really have an equivalent term.

Her "acquittal" was more of a mistrial verdict. Which even in America would lead to a retrial. It wasn't actually a not guilty verdict but it did give her the right to travel, etc.

It feels like double jeopardy... but there again the OJ case seems very similar to me. Would be clear cut if police didn't bumble around and give defense an out. Found not guilty but then found guilty in a civic trial?

After reading news in three different languages from different countries... yes I think she is guilty... almost certainly of murder... but if not, she's covering something up and I think even her defenders would agree she is a compulsive liar...

I do think the prosecution are complete f-ups and the trial has been an utter disaster.

If she were tried in this country she would probably be able to claim temporary insanity and get out in a month.
 
2014-01-31 12:46:52 PM  

Eirik: I'm curious what the Italian perspective is on this. I live in the Seattle media market, so I have no illusions that I'm not getting a slanted view of things. Does the Italian public think this is all legit?


Most of Europe seems to have been utterly convinced by their media that this is legit. They're completely sold on her guilt.
 
2014-01-31 12:47:55 PM  

Eirik: I'm curious what the Italian perspective is on this.  I live in the Seattle media market, so I have no illusions that I'm not getting a slanted view of things.  Does the Italian public think this is all legit?

/I realize public sentiment does not equal guilt
//Locals might have a sense on how screwed up their legal system is.


In Europe most people think the prosecution made a lot of mistakes, for sure. The majority of people think she is guilty, but some think she is innocent.

You find much wider range of reporting angles too.

In us media you just get "poor sweet angelic American girl charged with heinous murder some Johnny-foreigner committed".

In Britain, Italy, Germany, etc you get stories ranging from "satanic sex witch goes on killing spree" to balanced articles posting pros and cons... and the same "poor angel" stories.
 
2014-01-31 12:49:21 PM  

Por que tan serioso: There are many nuances in the case. However, double jeopardy simply does not apply in this case(.)


In a direct way with obvious precedents?  No.  In the way where there's public outcry over a foreign court apparently re-trying an American over and over until they get the verdict they want, to the point where approving an extradition request becomes PR suicide?  You bet your ass it applies.

The question was never over whether or not double jeopardy protections apply legally.  The question was whether or not they would have applied if the Italian court system used American rules.  Answer: yes they would.  That's why people are pissed off, and why there's a very real chance extradition will never happen even if the conviction stands.
 
2014-01-31 12:49:57 PM  

CleanAndPure: BgJonson79: Por que tan serioso: mjbok: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Her guilty verdict was over-turned and she was acquitted.  You are wrong.  http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox/

Nope. I afraid we have reached the point in a fark thread where i can continue to explain it but I will never be able to understand it for you.

So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

Translation mishap. America doesn't really have an equivalent term.

Her "acquittal" was more of a mistrial verdict. Which even in America would lead to a retrial. It wasn't actually a not guilty verdict but it did give her the right to travel, etc.

It feels like double jeopardy... but there again the OJ case seems very similar to me. Would be clear cut if police didn't bumble around and give defense an out. Found not guilty but then found guilty in a civic trial?

After reading news in three different languages from different countries... yes I think she is guilty... almost certainly of murder... but if not, she's covering something up and I think even her defenders would agree she is a compulsive liar...

I do think the prosecution are complete f-ups and the trial has been an utter disaster.

If she were tried in this country she would probably be able to claim temporary insanity and get out in a month.


Your understanding of the American judicial system is lacking.
 
Ant
2014-01-31 12:50:51 PM  

walktoanarcade: As I was reading what you wrote, I was remembering that I react oddly sometimes, like if someone accuses me of something ridiculous, I tend to laugh even if it's serious(not all the time). It can be a problem, but I stifle it as much as I can(like if I'm pulled over for speeding).

It has caused people to "know" I was lying, but then they find out I was telling the truth and they're like, "then why were you acting silly/funny?", and I tell them, "that's the way I am."


Yet you still think she's guilty based on something as subjective as her behavior during interviews?


Your description above matches my own behavior. I hope I never end up in front of an Italian court, accused of a murder I didn't commit. I'd get life in prison based on my supposed inappropriate emotional responses.
 
2014-01-31 12:51:23 PM  
Its the same when our spies get caught overseas.

"Poor tourists charged with spying in Bumfuqistan"... of course we don't have any spies in any pariah nations... they must all be innocent tourists accused of spying. We're America, we would never spy on anyone.

If one of our citizens get arrested overseas they must be innocent and wrongly framed.

When was the last time an American got arrested overseas that the media didn't paint as a saint?
 
2014-01-31 12:56:09 PM  
CleanAndPure:
After reading news in three different languages from different countries... yes I think she is guilty... almost certainly of murder... but if not, she's covering something up and I think even her defenders would agree she is a compulsive liar...

I'd like to hear your reasoning for this conclusion.
 
2014-01-31 12:58:59 PM  

CleanAndPure: Her "acquittal" was more of a mistrial verdict. Which even in America would lead to a retrial. It wasn't actually a not guilty verdict but it did give her the right to travel, etc.


Even though the court's statement of reason explicitly cited the fact that the prosecutions case didn't come even remotely close to proving her involvement?  For me, that's really the damning part.  If a US court says "sorry prosecution, you've failed to make your case" then 99% of the time that means acquittal and double jeopardy protection.  In the American court system, the DA doesn't get a do-over.  Or isn't supposed to at any rate.

CleanAndPure: After reading news in three different languages from different countries... yes I think she is guilty... almost certainly of murder... but if not, she's covering something up and I think even her defenders would agree she is a compulsive liar...


I'm curious what has you convinced she was involved with the murder.  Last time I surveyed the case they found zero physical evidence that she was at the murder scene during the murder, and the statements saying she was were limited to the confessed murderer who left the bloody handprint, a homeless person who seemed to provide a lot of very convenient exactly-what-we-needed testimony for the local police in other cases, and the statement from Knox herself that she claims was made under duress during an interrogation session where the tapes went missing.

Seriously, honest question.  Lay it out for me.
 
2014-01-31 12:59:30 PM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: BgJonson79:
So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

It's more like when someone in the U.S. gets a conviction turned over on appeal. It's not an acquittal and the case can be retried if the prosecution decides to do so. Double Jeopardy is not attached. Which is why people need to stop talking about double jeopardy being a reason she won't be extradited. It just doesn't apply.


I'm one of those people that's been spouting off about that.
What the hell happened then, if she wasn't acquitted?  She was released, and allowed to leave the country.  If there was any chance that they may be re-tried, why was that allowed to happen?

Seriously...  Someone needs to explain this better.
 
2014-01-31 01:00:49 PM  

walktoanarcade: Thank you; you made my day. :)  I mean it, I'll buy you a friggen steak dinner for saying that if I ever get the chance.  I appreciate good readers!


I'm really happy to hear that!  It's my birthday tomorrow so it's good that something I said made someone happy.

As for the steak, find someone in your life you may have slighted (intentionally/unintentionally) and invite them out for a beer.  Make amends.

Or, just help a homeless guy/girl get a warm meal/new blanket/whatever this weekend.

That'll be even better than buying me a steak. :o)
 
2014-01-31 01:01:45 PM  

CleanAndPure: Its the same when our spies get caught overseas.

"Poor tourists charged with spying in Bumfuqistan"... of course we don't have any spies in any pariah nations... they must all be innocent tourists accused of spying. We're America, we would never spy on anyone.

If one of our citizens get arrested overseas they must be innocent and wrongly framed.

When was the last time an American got arrested overseas that the media didn't paint as a saint?


Examples?

I don't even remember reports about Robert Levinson being sympathetic before it came out he was working with/for the CIA. Michael Fay's coverage was not sympathetic. There is that guy in Cuba, but he's hardly covered at all.

I guess articles about Korean-Americans arrested in North Korea are generally sympathetic, but it is unlikely they were actually doing anything worthy of scorn.
 
2014-01-31 01:03:03 PM  

BigNumber12: Eirik: I'm curious what the Italian perspective is on this. I live in the Seattle media market, so I have no illusions that I'm not getting a slanted view of things. Does the Italian public think this is all legit?

Most of Europe seems to have been utterly convinced by their media that this is legit. They're completely sold on her guilt.


I'm wondering what it says about a culture where "Satanic sex-game gone wrong" is a legitimate thing to admit to believing in.  I get it that the US had its Satanic ritual abuse moral panic in the 80s and I understand what it represented, and that we're on the waning side of our sex offender panic so I'm not saying they're bad people.

They're just caught in a moral panic, but within that moral panic is a fear about their own society.  Reading the Sky News article the common thread is that all Americans are violent and also the NSA and so on.  I suspect there's a concern about being their culture being dominated by a US based monoculture.  It's a legitimate concern and it's very Italian.
 
2014-01-31 01:03:11 PM  

Lydia_C: raerae1980: Deathfrogg: raatz01: Poor bastard.

Thats just it. The Italians were hell bent on railroading these kids because they couldn't be bothered to do anything in the way of a real investigation, not to mention the Prosecutor openly stating that he couldn't prosecute an actual Italian national as it would make him look bad. The original prosecutor was so utterly convinced of his "theory" (which was a bizarre scenario based in his belief of how Americans really were from various b-grade movies and such) that he was almost eager to dismiss the actual physical evidence, and actually tried to have it suppressed in court while replacing it with some seriously outrageous conjecture on his part. He was also trying to redeem himself and regain credibility, as he had already used the scenario he prosecuted Knox with in several other trials and was under some serious scrutiny over malfeasances related to that. His entire case was circumstantial and required the physical evidence to be dismissed out of hand to believe.

The actual killer only got 7 years. They know he did it, and they went ahead and prosecuted the American anyway, because there are a lot of Italian folks who will always presume that Americans are really a bunch of Satan worshipers and homicidal sex maniacs. It made for good headlines, and the Prosecutor regained his credibility.

Tell me you've read Monster of Florence by Douglas Preston!!   If you haven't, you need to.


That was a very disturbing book, and not because of the murders it described. The US State Department should warn American travelers to Italy about avoiding even the semblance of a connection to criminal activity while there, because they'll never get a fair shake.


And it is the same judge.
 
2014-01-31 01:08:37 PM  
From the comments:

There is a consensus that if Solleceto & Knox were responsible for the death of Meredith Kercher, it was because of a drug induced psychosis. Therefore their best defense would have been to admit manslaughter rather than murder. I don't know if the Italian Judicial system was able to offer such a lesser charge or if they or their lawyers took a gamble on gaining an acquittal. It is a tragedy for them that they might serve up to 25/28 years in jail rather than half that for manslaughter. Of course this would not apply if it was a premeditated murder.

Apparently, it is the 1960s in England and Joe Friday is on the case of hippies taking goofballs and jumping out of windows because they think they can fly.
 
2014-01-31 01:08:41 PM  

WhoGAS: walktoanarcade:I don't think you're a troll at all.  People just don't like different opinions and hate it when people aren't bothered when they call them a troll.

As a viewer, when someone immediately calls troll, I tend to re-read their posts carefully.  Nothing you have done seems trollish at all.  It just seems your opinion is that she's guilty, regardless whether she's hot or not.

Nothing wrong with that and anyone who calls you a troll should really stop being so closed-minded.

I don't know if she did it or not, but she should just go away and hide for a bit.  Name change, move somewhere else, I dunno.


There is an entire extra thread on this subject, and nothing immediate about my personal assumption that this one is a troll, and it has nothing to do with differences in opinion.  But when you explicitly aren't willing to address how your opinion does not coincide with physical evidence, and when called on it you turn around with the "you're defending her because she's hot and want to bang her and that's it", then at that point I'm rather forced to assume trolling.  Or simple foolishness.

But I see nothing close-minded in the idea that you are not, in fact, entitled to your opinion.  Opinions can be, and often are, wrong.  By wrong, they conflict with observable reality.  If you are unwilling to address the conflict, or offer up a reasonable explanation, I see no reason to respect your opinion.  (this is a general "you").

I agree though that she should just go away and hide.  At least stop giving interviews.
 
2014-01-31 01:11:16 PM  

CleanAndPure: BgJonson79: Por que tan serioso: mjbok: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Her guilty verdict was over-turned and she was acquitted.  You are wrong.  http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox/

Nope. I afraid we have reached the point in a fark thread where i can continue to explain it but I will never be able to understand it for you.

So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

Translation mishap. America doesn't really have an equivalent term.

Her "acquittal" was more of a mistrial verdict. Which even in America would lead to a retrial. It wasn't actually a not guilty verdict but it did give her the right to travel, etc.

It feels like double jeopardy... but there again the OJ case seems very similar to me. Would be clear cut if police didn't bumble around and give defense an out. Found not guilty but then found guilty in a civic trial?

After reading news in three different languages from different countries... yes I think she is guilty... almost certainly of murder... but if not, she's covering something up and I think even her defenders would agree she is a compulsive liar...

I do think the prosecution are complete f-ups and the trial has been an utter disaster.

If she were tried in this country she would probably be able to claim temporary insanity and get out in a month.


I read some other stuff and stand corrected.  Thanks!
 
2014-01-31 01:11:26 PM  

Rapmaster2000: From the comments:

There is a consensus that if Solleceto & Knox were responsible for the death of Meredith Kercher, it was because of a drug induced psychosis. Therefore their best defense would have been to admit manslaughter rather than murder. I don't know if the Italian Judicial system was able to offer such a lesser charge or if they or their lawyers took a gamble on gaining an acquittal. It is a tragedy for them that they might serve up to 25/28 years in jail rather than half that for manslaughter. Of course this would not apply if it was a premeditated murder.

Apparently, it is the 1960s in England and Joe Friday is on the case of hippies taking goofballs and jumping out of windows because they think they can fly.


Do not besmirch the integrity of the English tabloid industry. They give us Page 3.
 
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