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(Yahoo)   Knox Knox.. who's there? Raffaele Sollecito arrested at the Austrian border   (uk.news.yahoo.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, killer, identity document, Perugia, Virgin Media, borders  
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6914 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jan 2014 at 9:46 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



233 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-31 09:48:37 AM  
Say what you want about the American justice system, but this case is a prime example of why Double Jeopardy is a valuable thing.
 
2014-01-31 09:48:59 AM  

Kit Fister: Say what you want about the American justice system, but this case is a prime example of why Double Jeopardy is a valuable thing.


'Murica!
 
2014-01-31 09:49:39 AM  
 
2014-01-31 09:50:39 AM  
Poor bastard.
 
2014-01-31 09:51:07 AM  
Extraditing her will cause a political crisis.
 
2014-01-31 09:51:56 AM  
kercher-39-killer-39-sollecito-39-stopped-border-093901005.html

In other news: 39.
 
2014-01-31 09:54:19 AM  
"Raffaele Sollecito arrested at 55 miles from the Austrian border."

FTFSubby.
 
2014-01-31 09:54:35 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Extraditing her will cause a political crisis.


lol'd +funny
 
2014-01-31 09:54:41 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Extraditing her will cause a political crisis.


How do you figure?
 
2014-01-31 09:54:43 AM  
www.pepperidgefarm.com

RIP Mr. Sausalito
 
2014-01-31 09:55:45 AM  
I'll comfort Amanda if she needs it.
 
2014-01-31 09:55:51 AM  
Knox, Knox.

Who's there?

Monstrous.

Monstrous Who?

Monstrous Regiment of Women.



Worst Reverend John Knox joke ever. Well, second worst, maybe.
 
2014-01-31 09:56:39 AM  

Kit Fister: Say what you want about the American justice system, but this case is a prime example of why Double Jeopardy is a valuable thing.


Suck it Trebek.

/oh, NO double jeopardy. I see.
 
2014-01-31 09:57:12 AM  

boyvoyeur: I'll comfort Amanda if she needs it.


May I have your stereo after you're gone?
 
2014-01-31 09:57:49 AM  
I wonder if farking her was worth it.

Maybe.
 
2014-01-31 09:59:38 AM  

WinoRhino: HotWingConspiracy: Extraditing her will cause a political crisis.

How do you figure?


Do you really think people here are going to be ok with shipping her off to an Italian prison after their bizarre 3rd world justice system decided they were going to convict on a do over?
 
2014-01-31 10:02:04 AM  
HotWingConspiracy:
Do you really think people here are going to be ok with shipping her off to an Italian prison after their bizarre 3rd world justice system decided they were going to convict on a do over?

Not to mention that this is a country that jailed geologists for failing to predict an earthquake.  As much contempt I have for our own justice system, theirs is FAR worse, and demonstrably so.  No way in hell I'd extradite anyone to Italy if it were up to me.
 
2014-01-31 10:02:25 AM  
The American people are going to take it up the pooper on everything else without lube, but WILL absolutely throw everything thing away to defend the honor of attractive murderous poonawny aka Amanda Knox, you heard it from HotWingConspiracy first.
 
2014-01-31 10:02:50 AM  
The UK press has really whipped up a hate fest for Knox.

Is that just the tabloids or do the real new outlets agree?
 
2014-01-31 10:03:58 AM  
He had apparently crossed over the border into Austria late last night - but returned to Italy of his own accord, Sky's Nick Pisa said.


dumbass.
 
2014-01-31 10:04:33 AM  

walktoanarcade: The American people are going to take it up the pooper on everything else without lube, but WILL absolutely throw everything thing away to defend the honor of attractive murderous poonawny aka Amanda Knox, you heard it from HotWingConspiracy first.


You don't seem to be quoting me here.
 
2014-01-31 10:05:20 AM  
minus one "thing"

Hahaha really, this is now funny.  Besides finding her attractive, Americans are going to finally unleash the righteous indignation, over that chick. Right.

If you're right and America loses its collective shiat over her, we'll deserve anything that comes next.
 
2014-01-31 10:05:38 AM  

raatz01: Poor bastard.


Thats just it. The Italians were hell bent on railroading these kids because they couldn't be bothered to do anything in the way of a real investigation, not to mention the Prosecutor openly stating that he couldn't prosecute an actual Italian national as it would make him look bad. The original prosecutor was so utterly convinced of his "theory" (which was a bizarre scenario based in his belief of how Americans really were from various b-grade movies and such) that he was almost eager to dismiss the actual physical evidence, and actually tried to have it suppressed in court while replacing it with some seriously outrageous conjecture on his part. He was also trying to redeem himself and regain credibility, as he had already used the scenario he prosecuted Knox with in several other trials and was under some serious scrutiny over malfeasances related to that. His entire case was circumstantial and required the physical evidence to be dismissed out of hand to believe.

The actual killer only got 7 years. They know he did it, and they went ahead and prosecuted the American anyway, because there are a lot of Italian folks who will always presume that Americans are really a bunch of Satan worshipers and homicidal sex maniacs. It made for good headlines, and the Prosecutor regained his credibility.
 
2014-01-31 10:05:42 AM  

nekom: HotWingConspiracy:
Do you really think people here are going to be ok with shipping her off to an Italian prison after their bizarre 3rd world justice system decided they were going to convict on a do over?

Not to mention that this is a country that jailed geologists for failing to predict an earthquake.  As much contempt I have for our own justice system, theirs is FAR worse, and demonstrably so.  No way in hell I'd extradite anyone to Italy if it were up to me.


I completely forgot about that.  good lord that would be scary if they did extradite her.
 
2014-01-31 10:07:06 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: The American people are going to take it up the pooper on everything else without lube, but WILL absolutely throw everything thing away to defend the honor of attractive murderous poonawny aka Amanda Knox, you heard it from HotWingConspiracy first.

You don't seem to be quoting me here.


By jove, I think you're right!   "political crisis", really? ;)
 
2014-01-31 10:08:15 AM  
Read about the facts of the case.
Read about the man currently in prison for the murder and his first confessions, then his later story.
Read about the prosecution's theory of the case
Read about the prosecutor and what a crazy wing nut he is.

Then come here and tell me you think either of these people are guilty and back it up with facts.

Go on, I dare you.

/farkin witch hunt loving morons.
 
2014-01-31 10:08:41 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: The American people are going to take it up the pooper on everything else without lube, but WILL absolutely throw everything thing away to defend the honor of attractive murderous poonawny aka Amanda Knox, you heard it from HotWingConspiracy first.

You don't seem to be quoting me here.


11-26-13 - one of the fall batch of alt trolls.
 
2014-01-31 10:10:11 AM  
Required listening for Knox inspired headlines....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC0W4kI_P6s
 
2014-01-31 10:10:33 AM  

walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: The American people are going to take it up the pooper on everything else without lube, but WILL absolutely throw everything thing away to defend the honor of attractive murderous poonawny aka Amanda Knox, you heard it from HotWingConspiracy first.

You don't seem to be quoting me here.

By jove, I think you're right!   "political crisis", really? ;)


Yes. The Italians will demand extradition, and we have a treaty with them. Politicians will be involved.

Are you really farking dim? Are you aware of what happened when we jailed an Indian diplomat the other day? In matters of crime, things escalate pretty quickly. Pride, prestige, and rule of law are powerful motivators.
 
2014-01-31 10:10:40 AM  

whitman00: Read about the facts of the case.
Read about the man currently in prison for the murder and his first confessions, then his later story.
Read about the prosecution's theory of the case
Read about the prosecutor and what a crazy wing nut he is.

Then come here and tell me you think either of these people are guilty and back it up with facts.

Go on, I dare you.

/farkin witch hunt loving morons.


In Italy, a prosecutor can make up whatever "theory" about the case he wants, and then manufacture evidence he needs to support it. It is legal to do that there. Napoleonic Law.
 
2014-01-31 10:11:39 AM  
It's a message board, folks, not everything is a troll, most are messages, and I sent the correct message that a "political crisis" out of this is laughable.

I do realize to some of you think hearing a different opinion is a troll or an attack.
 
2014-01-31 10:12:51 AM  

raatz01: Poor bastard.


^^^^
This.  That whole trial was a joke.  The crime scene was contaminated and they had no forensic proof. He should've stayed in Austria.  I know I darn sure would've.  If I was Amanda, I'd go somewhere other than Seattle and keep it quiet.
 
2014-01-31 10:13:20 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: The American people are going to take it up the pooper on everything else without lube, but WILL absolutely throw everything thing away to defend the honor of attractive murderous poonawny aka Amanda Knox, you heard it from HotWingConspiracy first.

You don't seem to be quoting me here.

By jove, I think you're right!   "political crisis", really? ;)

Yes. The Italians will demand extradition, and we have a treaty with them. Politicians will be involved.

Are you really farking dim? Are you aware of what happened when we jailed an Indian diplomat the other day? In matters of crime, things escalate pretty quickly. Pride, prestige, and rule of law are powerful motivators.


You said "crisis" which it isn't and cannot be. Now, if we started another war, that might be a crisis.

And you call "me" dim?
 
2014-01-31 10:15:58 AM  
It's simple: if other countries won't extradite to the US because capital punishment, then we should refuse to export Amanda because FARK YOU THAT'S WHY! double jeopardy.
 
2014-01-31 10:16:24 AM  

Deathfrogg: raatz01: Poor bastard.

Thats just it. The Italians were hell bent on railroading these kids because they couldn't be bothered to do anything in the way of a real investigation, not to mention the Prosecutor openly stating that he couldn't prosecute an actual Italian national as it would make him look bad. The original prosecutor was so utterly convinced of his "theory" (which was a bizarre scenario based in his belief of how Americans really were from various b-grade movies and such) that he was almost eager to dismiss the actual physical evidence, and actually tried to have it suppressed in court while replacing it with some seriously outrageous conjecture on his part. He was also trying to redeem himself and regain credibility, as he had already used the scenario he prosecuted Knox with in several other trials and was under some serious scrutiny over malfeasances related to that. His entire case was circumstantial and required the physical evidence to be dismissed out of hand to believe.

The actual killer only got 7 years. They know he did it, and they went ahead and prosecuted the American anyway, because there are a lot of Italian folks who will always presume that Americans are really a bunch of Satan worshipers and homicidal sex maniacs. It made for good headlines, and the Prosecutor regained his credibility.


Tell me you've read Monster of Florence by Douglas Preston!!   If you haven't, you need to.
 
2014-01-31 10:17:59 AM  
From the BBC:
"Correspondents say that the new prosecutor in Florence, Alessandro Crini, redefined the motive of the crime. He moved away from the drug-fuelled erotic game described by his colleagues in earlier proceedings and instead contended that the outburst of violence was rooted in arguments between roommates Amanda Knox and Meredith Kercher about cleanliness - triggered by a toilet left unflushed by Rudy Guede."

Those are some great motives there. Stabbed during a kinky drug sex game to stabbed because someone didn't flush the toilet and was a dirty house mate. Makes sense. If they go for a third trial, what will be the next motive? I vote for Meredith ate the last of Amanda's oreo cookies without buying a new package.
 
2014-01-31 10:18:18 AM  

walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: The American people are going to take it up the pooper on everything else without lube, but WILL absolutely throw everything thing away to defend the honor of attractive murderous poonawny aka Amanda Knox, you heard it from HotWingConspiracy first.

You don't seem to be quoting me here.

By jove, I think you're right!   "political crisis", really? ;)

Yes. The Italians will demand extradition, and we have a treaty with them. Politicians will be involved.

Are you really farking dim? Are you aware of what happened when we jailed an Indian diplomat the other day? In matters of crime, things escalate pretty quickly. Pride, prestige, and rule of law are powerful motivators.

You said "crisis" which it isn't and cannot be.


Because you say so. Keep in mind that you're dim.

Now, if we started another war, that might be a crisis.

Mmm yes, lets quibble over the definition of crisis. That'll be cool.

And you call "me" dim?

Yes. Tedious as well, which is pretty impressive after just a few posts.
 
2014-01-31 10:18:33 AM  

walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: The American people are going to take it up the pooper on everything else without lube, but WILL absolutely throw everything thing away to defend the honor of attractive murderous poonawny aka Amanda Knox, you heard it from HotWingConspiracy first.

You don't seem to be quoting me here.

By jove, I think you're right!   "political crisis", really? ;)

Yes. The Italians will demand extradition, and we have a treaty with them. Politicians will be involved.

Are you really farking dim? Are you aware of what happened when we jailed an Indian diplomat the other day? In matters of crime, things escalate pretty quickly. Pride, prestige, and rule of law are powerful motivators.

You said "crisis" which it isn't and cannot be. Now, if we started another war, that might be a crisis.

And you call "me" dim?


Of course, when I asked you to back up what you believed with something other than "I believe it, it's my hunch, look at her eyes", you refused.  I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and you failed.  Now here you are, going back cheerfully to square one.  So why should we believe that you are anything other than either 1) a troll, or 2) a closed-minded fool?
 
2014-01-31 10:19:20 AM  
If Knox was a smart girl, the minute she was released after the first jail stint she would've moved to a country with no extradition treaty with the Italians. But she didn't, and chose to stay in the US where we have a strong bilateral history of extradition with them.

Stupid.
 
2014-01-31 10:20:06 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: The American people are going to take it up the pooper on everything else without lube, but WILL absolutely throw everything thing away to defend the honor of attractive murderous poonawny aka Amanda Knox, you heard it from HotWingConspiracy first.

You don't seem to be quoting me here.

By jove, I think you're right!   "political crisis", really? ;)

Yes. The Italians will demand extradition, and we have a treaty with them. Politicians will be involved.

Are you really farking dim? Are you aware of what happened when we jailed an Indian diplomat the other day? In matters of crime, things escalate pretty quickly. Pride, prestige, and rule of law are powerful motivators.

You said "crisis" which it isn't and cannot be.

Because you say so. Keep in mind that you're dim.

Now, if we started another war, that might be a crisis.

Mmm yes, lets quibble over the definition of crisis. That'll be cool.

And you call "me" dim?

Yes. Tedious as well, which is pretty impressive after just a few posts.


That's all you got?  To call names again, and the same ol' name? ;)

Let it go; you said something hyperbolic and stupid, then got called on it.
 
2014-01-31 10:21:01 AM  
The people of the Mediterranean are not really people. They are lazy, crooked spoiled children to the tee.
 
2014-01-31 10:21:31 AM  

walktoanarcade: It's a message board, folks, not everything is a troll, most are messages, and I sent the correct message that a "political crisis" out of this is laughable.

I do realize to some of you think hearing a different opinion is a troll or an attack.


img.fark.net
 
2014-01-31 10:22:17 AM  

jonas opines: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: The American people are going to take it up the pooper on everything else without lube, but WILL absolutely throw everything thing away to defend the honor of attractive murderous poonawny aka Amanda Knox, you heard it from HotWingConspiracy first.

You don't seem to be quoting me here.

By jove, I think you're right!   "political crisis", really? ;)

Yes. The Italians will demand extradition, and we have a treaty with them. Politicians will be involved.

Are you really farking dim? Are you aware of what happened when we jailed an Indian diplomat the other day? In matters of crime, things escalate pretty quickly. Pride, prestige, and rule of law are powerful motivators.

You said "crisis" which it isn't and cannot be. Now, if we started another war, that might be a crisis.

And you call "me" dim?

Of course, when I asked you to back up what you believed with something other than "I believe it, it's my hunch, look at her eyes", you refused.  I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and you failed.  Now here you are, going back cheerfully to square one.  So why should we believe that you are anything other than either 1) a troll, or 2) a closed-minded fool?


It's a message board with different opinions. You're trying to control what I read and what I type, seek help.

Or you know, you could chat with someone else.


/she's not going to let you bang her
 
2014-01-31 10:22:24 AM  

the8re: It's simple: if other countries won't extradite to the US because capital punishment, then we should refuse to export Amanda because FARK YOU THAT'S WHY! double jeopardy.


Except that, as has been stated many many many times, it is not double jeopardy. At all. According to American law. Or Italian.
 
2014-01-31 10:23:35 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: WinoRhino: HotWingConspiracy: Extraditing her will cause a political crisis.

How do you figure?

Do you really think people here are going to be ok with shipping her off to an Italian prison after their bizarre 3rd world justice system decided they were going to convict on a do over?


Do you actually think she's going anywhere? They will request extradition. The USA, due to our standards of justice (protection from double jeopardy) will simply deny the request. It's actually a perfectly acceptable thing to do according to the existing treaties that are in place. The end.
 
2014-01-31 10:23:49 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: The American people are going to take it up the pooper on everything else without lube, but WILL absolutely throw everything thing away to defend the honor of attractive murderous poonawny aka Amanda Knox, you heard it from HotWingConspiracy first.

You don't seem to be quoting me here.

By jove, I think you're right!   "political crisis", really? ;)

Yes. The Italians will demand extradition, and we have a treaty with them. Politicians will be involved.

Are you really farking dim? Are you aware of what happened when we jailed an Indian diplomat the other day? In matters of crime, things escalate pretty quickly. Pride, prestige, and rule of law are powerful motivators.


And then what? The great Italian-American war of 2014?

Italy is going to be all like, "she's a murderer we done proved it! Send her back!"

And 'Murica's gonna be like, "nuh uh! Ya'll are totes cray! We're keeping her, she's mine!"

And then Italy is going to be like, "that's no fair!"

And 'Murica's going to be like, "what're you going to do about it?"

And Italy's going to be like, "nuthin'."

Crisis averted!
 
2014-01-31 10:24:06 AM  

walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: The American people are going to take it up the pooper on everything else without lube, but WILL absolutely throw everything thing away to defend the honor of attractive murderous poonawny aka Amanda Knox, you heard it from HotWingConspiracy first.

You don't seem to be quoting me here.

By jove, I think you're right!   "political crisis", really? ;)

Yes. The Italians will demand extradition, and we have a treaty with them. Politicians will be involved.

Are you really farking dim? Are you aware of what happened when we jailed an Indian diplomat the other day? In matters of crime, things escalate pretty quickly. Pride, prestige, and rule of law are powerful motivators.

You said "crisis" which it isn't and cannot be.

Because you say so. Keep in mind that you're dim.

Now, if we started another war, that might be a crisis.

Mmm yes, lets quibble over the definition of crisis. That'll be cool.

And you call "me" dim?

Yes. Tedious as well, which is pretty impressive after just a few posts.

That's all you got?  To call names again, and the same ol' name? ;)


I guess I could just make stuff up and attribute it to you. You know, like you did.

Let it go; you said something hyperbolic and stupid, then got called on it.

Ah, a projector as well. But nobody should ever assume you're a troll, you're just here to tell it like it is. You're going to show this here website a thing or two about straight talk.
 
2014-01-31 10:25:08 AM  

give me doughnuts: "Raffaele Sollecito arrested at 55 miles from the Austrian border."

FTFSubby.


Kind of surprised he didn't leave way before the verdict, he knew it might be a possible to be found guilty
 
2014-01-31 10:25:22 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: The American people are going to take it up the pooper on everything else without lube, but WILL absolutely throw everything thing away to defend the honor of attractive murderous poonawny aka Amanda Knox, you heard it from HotWingConspiracy first.

You don't seem to be quoting me here.

By jove, I think you're right!   "political crisis", really? ;)

Yes. The Italians will demand extradition, and we have a treaty with them. Politicians will be involved.

Are you really farking dim? Are you aware of what happened when we jailed an Indian diplomat the other day? In matters of crime, things escalate pretty quickly. Pride, prestige, and rule of law are powerful motivators.

You said "crisis" which it isn't and cannot be.

Because you say so. Keep in mind that you're dim.

Now, if we started another war, that might be a crisis.

Mmm yes, lets quibble over the definition of crisis. That'll be cool.

And you call "me" dim?

Yes. Tedious as well, which is pretty impressive after just a few posts.

That's all you got?  To call names again, and the same ol' name? ;)

I guess I could just make stuff up and attribute it to you. You know, like you did.

Let it go; you said something hyperbolic and stupid, then got called on it.

Ah, a projector as well. But nobody should ever assume you're a troll, you're just here to tell it like it is. You're going to show this here website a thing or two about straight talk.


You're predictable.
 
2014-01-31 10:27:33 AM  
Someone REALLY wants to bang her. ;)

Anyway, there's no way she didn't know of or participate in the murder, and if the accused were a male or ugly woman, no one would care.

If the killing took place inside an epically huge mansion, then maybe I would believe her bullshiat story.
 
2014-01-31 10:27:38 AM  

WinoRhino: HotWingConspiracy: WinoRhino: HotWingConspiracy: Extraditing her will cause a political crisis.

How do you figure?

Do you really think people here are going to be ok with shipping her off to an Italian prison after their bizarre 3rd world justice system decided they were going to convict on a do over?

Do you actually think she's going anywhere? They will request extradition. The USA, due to our standards of justice (protection from double jeopardy) will simply deny the request. It's actually a perfectly acceptable thing to do according to the existing treaties that are in place. The end.


A rather experienced lawyer disagrees with your take.
 
2014-01-31 10:27:55 AM  
walktoanarcade:
You're predictable.

Brave card.
 
2014-01-31 10:28:17 AM  

walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: The American people are going to take it up the pooper on everything else without lube, but WILL absolutely throw everything thing away to defend the honor of attractive murderous poonawny aka Amanda Knox, you heard it from HotWingConspiracy first.

You don't seem to be quoting me here.

By jove, I think you're right!   "political crisis", really? ;)

Yes. The Italians will demand extradition, and we have a treaty with them. Politicians will be involved.

Are you really farking dim? Are you aware of what happened when we jailed an Indian diplomat the other day? In matters of crime, things escalate pretty quickly. Pride, prestige, and rule of law are powerful motivators.

You said "crisis" which it isn't and cannot be.

Because you say so. Keep in mind that you're dim.

Now, if we started another war, that might be a crisis.

Mmm yes, lets quibble over the definition of crisis. That'll be cool.

And you call "me" dim?

Yes. Tedious as well, which is pretty impressive after just a few posts.

That's all you got?  To call names again, and the same ol' name? ;)

I guess I could just make stuff up and attribute it to you. You know, like you did.

Let it go; you said something hyperbolic and stupid, then got called on it.

Ah, a projector as well. But nobody should ever assume you're a troll, you're just here to tell it like it is. You're going to show this here website a thing or two about straight talk.

You're predictable.


NO YOU
 
2014-01-31 10:28:55 AM  
Can anyone prove that Justin Bieber didn't do it?
Send him over there.
 
2014-01-31 10:29:16 AM  

knight_on_the_rail: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: The American people are going to take it up the pooper on everything else without lube, but WILL absolutely throw everything thing away to defend the honor of attractive murderous poonawny aka Amanda Knox, you heard it from HotWingConspiracy first.

You don't seem to be quoting me here.

By jove, I think you're right!   "political crisis", really? ;)

Yes. The Italians will demand extradition, and we have a treaty with them. Politicians will be involved.

Are you really farking dim? Are you aware of what happened when we jailed an Indian diplomat the other day? In matters of crime, things escalate pretty quickly. Pride, prestige, and rule of law are powerful motivators.

And then what? The great Italian-American war of 2014?


No.
 
2014-01-31 10:29:30 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: HotWingConspiracy: walktoanarcade: The American people are going to take it up the pooper on everything else without lube, but WILL absolutely throw everything thing away to defend the honor of attractive murderous poonawny aka Amanda Knox, you heard it from HotWingConspiracy first.

You don't seem to be quoting me here.

By jove, I think you're right!   "political crisis", really? ;)

Yes. The Italians will demand extradition, and we have a treaty with them. Politicians will be involved.

Are you really farking dim? Are you aware of what happened when we jailed an Indian diplomat the other day? In matters of crime, things escalate pretty quickly. Pride, prestige, and rule of law are powerful motivators.

You said "crisis" which it isn't and cannot be.

Because you say so. Keep in mind that you're dim.

Now, if we started another war, that might be a crisis.

Mmm yes, lets quibble over the definition of crisis. That'll be cool.

And you call "me" dim?

Yes. Tedious as well, which is pretty impressive after just a few posts.

That's all you got?  To call names again, and the same ol' name? ;)

I guess I could just make stuff up and attribute it to you. You know, like you did.

Let it go; you said something hyperbolic and stupid, then got called on it.

Ah, a projector as well. But nobody should ever assume you're a troll, you're just here to tell it like it is. You're going to show this here website a thing or two about straight talk.

You're predictable.

NO YOU


Should we kiss now?
 
2014-01-31 10:29:35 AM  
From some of the things I've read, the Italian government is unlikely to even request extradition.
 
2014-01-31 10:29:36 AM  
walktoanarcade: It's a message board with different opinions. You're trying to control what I read and what I type, seek help.

Or you know, you could chat with someone else.


/she's not going to let you bang her
Yes, as you see I am either an idiot or a troll.

FTFY.

In the end, the truth reveals itself, I suppose.
 
2014-01-31 10:29:44 AM  
I really don't get how they got to try her again anyway.  Then THIS TIME, she was found guilty.  When the last time, she was found so innocent, that they set her free and allowed her to leave the country.

That should have been the end of it.  In this country, it would have been.

And I think that will be the legal precedent on which she will not be extradited.  If she was found guilty, and fled the country, then yeah, we would send her back.  But our laws here say, "if you've been tried, and found innocent, you cannot be tried again."  So, no matter the outcome, there is no reason for us to send her back.
 
2014-01-31 10:30:59 AM  
I wonder if she'll have body gaurds to keep the press away while she is walking between classes.

/although I work on the UW campus I doubt I could pick her out of the crowds of students.
//unless she's the one with all the press and photographers after her.
 
2014-01-31 10:31:00 AM  

Kit Fister: Say what you want about the American justice system, but this case is a prime example of why Double Jeopardy is a valuable thing.


No, you see ... I've been told that they call it something different over there, so it's totally NOT double jeopardy, even though she spent 4 years in prison during two trials, was acquitted, then allowed to leave the country before they decided they needed to try again because people were pissed.
 
2014-01-31 10:31:38 AM  
Differing opinions sure do smart, eh?

Ow ow ow..;

Her story is unbelievable. She either helped or watched, albeit stoney-eyed.
 
2014-01-31 10:33:10 AM  
It's Europe. Can't they just solve it with a good game of soccer?
 
2014-01-31 10:34:27 AM  

nekom: Not to mention that this is a country that jailed geologists for failing to predict an earthquake. As much contempt I have for our own justice system, theirs is FAR worse, and demonstrably so. No way in hell I'd extradite anyone to Italy if it were up to me.


Don't forget legalizing raping women wearing jeans.
 
Ant
2014-01-31 10:34:56 AM  

walktoanarcade: Someone REALLY wants to bang her. ;)


This attitude is really tiring, and I'm sick of hearing it. The only reason to defend someone is because you want to have sex with them? Talk about projection. Maybe the only reason you would speak in support of someone is because you want to bang them, but not everyone is you.
 
2014-01-31 10:35:38 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: WinoRhino: HotWingConspiracy: WinoRhino: HotWingConspiracy: Extraditing her will cause a political crisis.

How do you figure?

Do you really think people here are going to be ok with shipping her off to an Italian prison after their bizarre 3rd world justice system decided they were going to convict on a do over?

Do you actually think she's going anywhere? They will request extradition. The USA, due to our standards of justice (protection from double jeopardy) will simply deny the request. It's actually a perfectly acceptable thing to do according to the existing treaties that are in place. The end.

A rather experienced lawyer disagrees with your take.


So let's watch and see what happens. Am I correct, or the "rather experienced lawyer"? Let's make a bet!
 
2014-01-31 10:37:06 AM  

Por que tan serioso: the8re: It's simple: if other countries won't extradite to the US because capital punishment, then we should refuse to export Amanda because FARK YOU THAT'S WHY! double jeopardy.

Except that, as has been stated many many many times, it is not double jeopardy. At all. According to American law. Or Italian.


Double Jeopardy protection kicks in the minute there is a verdict of Not Guilty.  So long as that verdict was made by a court which had jurisdiction at the time then that's it.

The only way this wouldn't be Double Jeopardy as the US defines it is if the higher Italian court overturned the Not Guilty verdict because the lower court was bribed or similar.  If there was a risk she could have been convicted (or was "in jeopardy") and then she wasn't then the protection stands.

walktoanarcade: Someone REALLY wants to bang her. ;)

Anyway, there's no way she didn't know of or participate in the murder, and if the accused were a male or ugly woman, no one would care.

If the killing took place inside an epically huge mansion, then maybe I would believe her bullshiat story.


4/10.  Might get a few nibbles, but anybody who spent more than about five minutes reading the details of the events is going to know better.
 
2014-01-31 10:37:14 AM  
She's guilty. Guilty of being smokin' hot.
 
2014-01-31 10:37:15 AM  

walktoanarcade: Someone REALLY wants to bang her. ;)

Anyway, there's no way she didn't know of or participate in the murder, and if the accused were a male or ugly woman, no one would care.

If the killing took place inside an epically huge mansion, then maybe I would believe her bullshiat story.


I watched a news magazine (20/20?) special on this case around the time that the appeal found her not guilty.  The case was absolutely batshiat insane.  The prosecutor has some kind of fascination with Satanic rituals and has a history of trying to tie cases to satanism.  It was a miscarriage of justice from start to finish.  Anything that makes me glad to have the US justice system is fatally flawed.
 
2014-01-31 10:37:41 AM  

Ant: walktoanarcade: Someone REALLY wants to bang her. ;)

This attitude is really tiring, and I'm sick of hearing it. The only reason to defend someone is because you want to have sex with them? Talk about projection. Maybe the only reason you would speak in support of someone is because you want to bang them, but not everyone is you.


No, but it's true in a lot of cases.  (see Casey Anthony)

People will do mental gymnastics to defend an attractive person, sometimes. And you "heard" my post? Neat!
 
2014-01-31 10:37:41 AM  

WinoRhino: HotWingConspiracy: WinoRhino: HotWingConspiracy: WinoRhino: HotWingConspiracy: Extraditing her will cause a political crisis.

How do you figure?

Do you really think people here are going to be ok with shipping her off to an Italian prison after their bizarre 3rd world justice system decided they were going to convict on a do over?

Do you actually think she's going anywhere? They will request extradition. The USA, due to our standards of justice (protection from double jeopardy) will simply deny the request. It's actually a perfectly acceptable thing to do according to the existing treaties that are in place. The end.

A rather experienced lawyer disagrees with your take.

So let's watch and see what happens. Am I correct, or the "rather experienced lawyer"? Let's make a bet!


Well it looks like we won't know for months anyway, and all of this is depending on whether or not Italy actually chooses to file the paperwork.

Also, don't forget about reciprocity. They don't have to play ball if we don't.
 
2014-01-31 10:38:17 AM  

walktoanarcade: Differing opinions sure do smart, eh?

Ow ow ow..;

Her story is unbelievable. She either helped or watched, albeit stoney-eyed.


Time to start over. Fortunately it is a relatively new account.
 
2014-01-31 10:40:27 AM  

mjbok: walktoanarcade: Someone REALLY wants to bang her. ;)

Anyway, there's no way she didn't know of or participate in the murder, and if the accused were a male or ugly woman, no one would care.

If the killing took place inside an epically huge mansion, then maybe I would believe her bullshiat story.

I watched a news magazine (20/20?) special on this case around the time that the appeal found her not guilty.  The case was absolutely batshiat insane.  The prosecutor has some kind of fascination with Satanic rituals and has a history of trying to tie cases to satanism.  It was a miscarriage of justice from start to finish.  Anything that makes me glad to have the US justice system is fatally flawed.


If she's innocent, then here's to hoping she has the brains to get some modest plastic surgery and disappear into the fabric of either Canada or the U.S.
 
Ant
2014-01-31 10:41:17 AM  

walktoanarcade: No, but it's true in a lot of cases.  (see Casey Anthony)


Casey Anthony was a demonstrably horrible person.
 
2014-01-31 10:42:20 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Well it looks like we won't know for months anyway, and all of this is depending on whether or not Italy actually chooses to file the paperwork.

Also, don't forget about reciprocity. They don't have to play ball if we don't.


You're absolutely right. But there are two different arguments here, and we haven't even seen what ultimately happens with her latest appeal. Anyhow, it will be a while from now.
 
2014-01-31 10:42:50 AM  

Moopy Mac: walktoanarcade: Differing opinions sure do smart, eh?

Ow ow ow..;

Her story is unbelievable. She either helped or watched, albeit stoney-eyed.

Time to start over. Fortunately it is a relatively new account.


I chat with plenty of people here and read lots of what they say and vice versa. I see no need to create another handle.    That others wrongly use the "troll" label to dismiss contrary doesn't scare me off.
 
2014-01-31 10:43:25 AM  

jonas opines: walktoanarcade: It's a message board with different opinions. You're trying to control what I read and what I type, seek help.

Or you know, you could chat with someone else.


/she's not going to let you bang her
Yes, as you see I am either an idiot or a troll.

FTFY.

In the end, the truth reveals itself, I suppose.


Having noticed this guy and a few of his comments in a few threads for the first time yesterday, I've been wondering which of those was true. I've come to the conclusion that it's probably both; about 75% the former and 25% the latter. Either way he obviously adds nothing to the conversation, so why don't we all do the right thing and just put him on ignore, shall we?
 
2014-01-31 10:43:52 AM  
Whoops, "contrary to their position,..doesn't scare me off."

Grow some thicker skin, some of you.
 
2014-01-31 10:45:08 AM  

Por que tan serioso: the8re: It's simple: if other countries won't extradite to the US because capital punishment, then we should refuse to export Amanda because FARK YOU THAT'S WHY! double jeopardy.

Except that, as has been stated many many many times, it is not double jeopardy. At all. According to American law. Or Italian.


Source?
 
2014-01-31 10:45:18 AM  

yukichigai: Por que tan serioso: the8re: It's simple: if other countries won't extradite to the US because capital punishment, then we should refuse to export Amanda because FARK YOU THAT'S WHY! double jeopardy.

Except that, as has been stated many many many times, it is not double jeopardy. At all. According to American law. Or Italian.

Double Jeopardy protection kicks in the minute there is a verdict of Not Guilty.  So long as that verdict was made by a court which had jurisdiction at the time then that's it.

The only way this wouldn't be Double Jeopardy as the US defines it is if the higher Italian court overturned the Not Guilty verdict because the lower court was bribed or similar.  If there was a risk she could have been convicted (or was "in jeopardy") and then she wasn't then the protection stands.

walktoanarcade: Someone REALLY wants to bang her. ;)

Anyway, there's no way she didn't know of or participate in the murder, and if the accused were a male or ugly woman, no one would care.

If the killing took place inside an epically huge mansion, then maybe I would believe her bullshiat story.

4/10.  Might get a few nibbles, but anybody who spent more than about five minutes reading the details of the events is going to know better.


Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.
 
2014-01-31 10:45:21 AM  

walktoanarcade: Differing opinions sure do smart, eh?


Not at all, I feel rather satisfied.  I didn't assume anything about you until you incrementally showed what you were.  If anyone was to bother to read the series of exchanges, they'd see one person interested in thinking and one person determined not to.  Troll or fool, the reason doesn't matter anywhere near as much as the observable behavior.
 
2014-01-31 10:45:29 AM  
When the world ends I'm moving to Italy.  It's still the 1980s there.
 
2014-01-31 10:48:49 AM  

Tom_Slick: From some of the things I've read, the Italian government is unlikely to even request extradition.


I think this is the most likely scenario.  With the massively negative US reaction to several other Italian trainwreck court decisions (particularly jailing seismologists for not predicting an earthquake) Italy's diplomatic wing has to be scrambling to try and repair the damage that's done to the international image of their legal system.  I'm sure the willingness of other countries to let them handle things via their legal system is at an all-time low.  Asking the US to extradite someone for one of their more ridiculous court fiascos isn't going to help with that.
 
2014-01-31 10:49:08 AM  

jonas opines: walktoanarcade: Differing opinions sure do smart, eh?

Not at all, I feel rather satisfied.  I didn't assume anything about you until you incrementally showed what you were.  If anyone was to bother to read the series of exchanges, they'd see one person interested in thinking and one person determined not to.  Troll or fool, the reason doesn't matter anywhere near as much as the observable behavior.


I matter so little you just had to tell me so. ;)

Unlike most of you, my manner isn't the same for every thread because every thread is different. I put far more work into some posts than others, that's for sure.
 
Ant
2014-01-31 10:49:25 AM  

walktoanarcade: People will do mental gymnastics to defend an attractive person, sometimes.


It sounds like you're doing the opposite
 
2014-01-31 10:49:50 AM  

nekom: HotWingConspiracy:
Do you really think people here are going to be ok with shipping her off to an Italian prison after their bizarre 3rd world justice system decided they were going to convict on a do over?

Not to mention that this is a country that jailed geologists for failing to predict an earthquake.  As much contempt I have for our own justice system, theirs is FAR worse, and demonstrably so.  No way in hell I'd extradite anyone to Italy if it were up to me.


Dafuq?

Surely you jest.

/not calling you Shirley
 
2014-01-31 10:50:29 AM  

Jizz Master Zero: Having noticed this guy and a few of his comments in a few threads for the first time yesterday, I've been wondering which of those was true. I've come to the conclusion that it's probably both; about 75% the former and 25% the latter. Either way he obviously adds nothing to the conversation, so why don't we all do the right thing and just put him on ignore, shall we?


In general, I suspect that most trolls are also fools, because people tend to seek negative attention mostly when they're incapable of providing anything that allows them to receive positive attention.  Not absolute by any stretch of the imagination, but I suspect that it applies here.
 
2014-01-31 10:50:52 AM  

Ant: walktoanarcade: People will do mental gymnastics to defend an attractive person, sometimes.

It sounds like you're doing the opposite


Are you calling yourself ugly?
 
2014-01-31 10:51:58 AM  
I'd take a chance with her.  It might be epic, or I might get killed.  The odds are still in favor of a great time.  Crazy murderess sex.  Would you take that chance?
 
2014-01-31 10:53:01 AM  

Kentucky Fried Children: If Knox was a smart girl, the minute she was released after the first jail stint she would've moved to a country with no extradition treaty with the Italians. But she didn't, and chose to stay in the US where we have a strong bilateral history of extradition with them.

Stupid.


This.

Either that or when she was released and found out that they were going to retry her, she should have started working and saving every penny she made so that when it appeared that a verdict was close she could have flown off to a country with no extradition to Italy with some money in her pocket.

But anyway, the U.S isn't going to extradite her, and the Italians are only going to push for extradition for show. What is probably going to happen is that the U.S and the Italians are going to work out a deal were she serves her sentence in an American jail under reduced charges and American sentencing standards. She will probably get time served credited for the time she spent in jail in Italy awaiting trial and won't serve anytime in an American jail.
 
2014-01-31 10:53:46 AM  

Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy.


A not-guilty verdict isn't the only way jeopardy is attached.
 
2014-01-31 10:54:02 AM  

Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.


Her guilty verdict was over-turned and she was acquitted.  You are wrong.  http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox/
 
2014-01-31 10:54:29 AM  

walktoanarcade: Someone REALLY wants to bang her. ;)

Anyway, there's no way she didn't know of or participate in the murder, and if the accused were a male or ugly woman, no one would care.

If the killing took place inside an epically huge mansion, then maybe I would believe her bullshiat story.


Is there some proof she was in the apartment at the time it happened?
 
Ant
2014-01-31 10:56:14 AM  

walktoanarcade: Whoops, "contrary to their position,..doesn't scare me off."


Contrary, with good arguments is OK. Contrary with bad arguments, or contrary just for the sake of holding an opposing view is annoying.
 
2014-01-31 10:56:23 AM  

mjbok: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Her guilty verdict was over-turned and she was acquitted.  You are wrong.  http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox/


From a different article:

In the immediate aftermath of Thursday's guilty verdict, many legal commentators and Knox's own legal team have consoled themselves with the notion that she is protected under the concept of double jeopardy - which is enshrined in the US Constitution.
That means she could not be tried on the same charge twice.
But, the US-Italy extradition treaty protects US citizens from prosecution in Italy only against crimes of which the defendant has been tried under in the United States' legal system.

This is not the case with Knox - who has gone through three trials, all in Italy.
Furthermore, Dershowitz doubts if Knox even qualifies for double jeopardy because she was found guilty first and her acquittal was heard in an intermediate appeals court.
'If that happened in the U.S., it wouldn't be double jeopardy,' he said.
 
2014-01-31 10:57:05 AM  

sovietski: nekom: HotWingConspiracy:
Do you really think people here are going to be ok with shipping her off to an Italian prison after their bizarre 3rd world justice system decided they were going to convict on a do over?

Not to mention that this is a country that jailed geologists for failing to predict an earthquake.  As much contempt I have for our own justice system, theirs is FAR worse, and demonstrably so.  No way in hell I'd extradite anyone to Italy if it were up to me.

Dafuq?

Surely you jest.

/not calling you Shirley


If that's in response to the earthquake part, yes, Italy charged 7 earthquake scientists with manslaughter for not successfully predicting a quake that killed like 300 people.
 
2014-01-31 10:57:50 AM  

sovietski: nekom: HotWingConspiracy:
Do you really think people here are going to be ok with shipping her off to an Italian prison after their bizarre 3rd world justice system decided they were going to convict on a do over?

Not to mention that this is a country that jailed geologists for failing to predict an earthquake.  As much contempt I have for our own justice system, theirs is FAR worse, and demonstrably so.  No way in hell I'd extradite anyone to Italy if it were up to me.

Dafuq?

Surely you jest.

/not calling you Shirley


http://bit.ly/1eDcMZB
 
2014-01-31 10:58:25 AM  

mjones73: walktoanarcade: Someone REALLY wants to bang her. ;)

Anyway, there's no way she didn't know of or participate in the murder, and if the accused were a male or ugly woman, no one would care.

If the killing took place inside an epically huge mansion, then maybe I would believe her bullshiat story.

Is there some proof she was in the apartment at the time it happened?


Heh, so much for her defense that she was too stoned to notice anything(which is a lame excuse anyway).

Which is it? She had all her mental faculties and was somewhere else, or she was hopelessly drunk/stoned/otherwise drugged up and failed to notice a killing in the same room, or a nearby room.
 
Ant
2014-01-31 10:59:24 AM  

Rapmaster2000: When the world ends I'm moving to Italy.  It's still the 1980s there.


Do you think they've discovered hypnosis-assisted repressed memory recovery yet?
 
2014-01-31 10:59:44 AM  

walktoanarcade: mjones73: walktoanarcade: Someone REALLY wants to bang her. ;)

Anyway, there's no way she didn't know of or participate in the murder, and if the accused were a male or ugly woman, no one would care.

If the killing took place inside an epically huge mansion, then maybe I would believe her bullshiat story.

Is there some proof she was in the apartment at the time it happened?

Heh, so much for her defense that she was too stoned to notice anything(which is a lame excuse anyway).

Which is it? She had all her mental faculties and was somewhere else, or she was hopelessly drunk/stoned/otherwise drugged up and failed to notice a killing in the same room, or a nearby room.


Just asking, I didn't follow the case closely enough to know.
 
2014-01-31 11:00:35 AM  

T-Boy: I'd take a chance with her.  It might be epic, or I might get killed.  The odds are still in favor of a great time.  Crazy murderess sex.  Would you take that chance?


Yes.

Next question.
 
2014-01-31 11:01:24 AM  

Ant: walktoanarcade: Whoops, "contrary to their position,..doesn't scare me off."

Contrary, with good arguments is OK. Contrary with bad arguments, or contrary just for the sake of holding an opposing view is annoying.


You're annoyed because not only do I have the gall to disagree, but I refuse to make myself a clone of you or your cronies.
 
2014-01-31 11:02:07 AM  

raerae1980: Deathfrogg: raatz01: Poor bastard.

Thats just it. The Italians were hell bent on railroading these kids because they couldn't be bothered to do anything in the way of a real investigation, not to mention the Prosecutor openly stating that he couldn't prosecute an actual Italian national as it would make him look bad. The original prosecutor was so utterly convinced of his "theory" (which was a bizarre scenario based in his belief of how Americans really were from various b-grade movies and such) that he was almost eager to dismiss the actual physical evidence, and actually tried to have it suppressed in court while replacing it with some seriously outrageous conjecture on his part. He was also trying to redeem himself and regain credibility, as he had already used the scenario he prosecuted Knox with in several other trials and was under some serious scrutiny over malfeasances related to that. His entire case was circumstantial and required the physical evidence to be dismissed out of hand to believe.

The actual killer only got 7 years. They know he did it, and they went ahead and prosecuted the American anyway, because there are a lot of Italian folks who will always presume that Americans are really a bunch of Satan worshipers and homicidal sex maniacs. It made for good headlines, and the Prosecutor regained his credibility.

Tell me you've read Monster of Florence by Douglas Preston!!   If you haven't, you need to.



That was a very disturbing book, and not because of the murders it described. The US State Department should warn American travelers to Italy about avoiding even the semblance of a connection to criminal activity while there, because they'll never get a fair shake.
 
2014-01-31 11:02:44 AM  

walktoanarcade: Differing opinions sure do smart, eh?

Ow ow ow..;

Her story is unbelievable. She either helped or watched, albeit stoney-eyed.


Explain the logic underlying that conclusion, if you can.
 
2014-01-31 11:04:43 AM  

mjones73: walktoanarcade: mjones73: walktoanarcade: Someone REALLY wants to bang her. ;)

Anyway, there's no way she didn't know of or participate in the murder, and if the accused were a male or ugly woman, no one would care.

If the killing took place inside an epically huge mansion, then maybe I would believe her bullshiat story.

Is there some proof she was in the apartment at the time it happened?

Heh, so much for her defense that she was too stoned to notice anything(which is a lame excuse anyway).

Which is it? She had all her mental faculties and was somewhere else, or she was hopelessly drunk/stoned/otherwise drugged up and failed to notice a killing in the same room, or a nearby room.

Just asking, I didn't follow the case closely enough to know.


Oh, I wasn't getting pissy or anything, I'm glad you asked too since it's at the core of her defense.
And to your question: I don't know.

Like you, I'm not an armchair expert on this.
 
Ant
2014-01-31 11:05:12 AM  

walktoanarcade: You're annoyed because not only do I have the gall to disagree, but I refuse to make myself a clone of you or your cronies.


What's annoying is that you seem to be taking the opposite stance because you think it makes you look smart. It doesn't.
 
2014-01-31 11:06:26 AM  

MagicianNamedGob: walktoanarcade: Differing opinions sure do smart, eh?

Ow ow ow..;

Her story is unbelievable. She either helped or watched, albeit stoney-eyed.

Explain the logic underlying that conclusion, if you can.


All right. When the story first broke, I remember her saying that she was there, but too drugged out to do any killing, then her story changed to her not being there at all.
 
2014-01-31 11:07:37 AM  

jaytkay: The UK press has really whipped up a hate fest for Knox.

Is that just the tabloids or do the real new outlets agree?


Just the tabloids, the BBC has the whole write-up about how the police sucked and failed forensics 101
 
2014-01-31 11:08:21 AM  

Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.


Uh yes, actually she was.  It was a formal acquittal, i.e. the jury found her not guilty.
 
2014-01-31 11:11:15 AM  

walktoanarcade: Differing opinions sure do smart, eh?

Ow ow ow..;

Her story is unbelievable. She either helped or watched, albeit stoney-eyed.


She got high with her boyfriend and hung out all night though the details are kinda hazy to her.

Meanwhile in a blood splattered room where a horrific struggle took place there is zero evidence she was ever there.
And a guy who was there has confessed to being there, been sentenced, and changed his tune on his story so many times it'll be interesting to see what he says next.
 
2014-01-31 11:11:36 AM  

yukichigai: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Uh yes, actually she was.  It was a formal acquittal, i.e. the jury found her not guilty.


I think they're trying to play on the differences in the Italian vs. the US court system.  In the Italian court system you are not found guilty until it has gone through three levels (?) of courts.  I believe the same is true to being found not guilty.  You have to be found not guilty at all levels for it to be finished.  If someone is going by that rationale, then she was never found guilty either.
 
2014-01-31 11:12:55 AM  

walktoanarcade: mjones73: walktoanarcade: mjones73: walktoanarcade: Someone REALLY wants to bang her. ;)

Anyway, there's no way she didn't know of or participate in the murder, and if the accused were a male or ugly woman, no one would care.

If the killing took place inside an epically huge mansion, then maybe I would believe her bullshiat story.

Is there some proof she was in the apartment at the time it happened?

Heh, so much for her defense that she was too stoned to notice anything(which is a lame excuse anyway).

Which is it? She had all her mental faculties and was somewhere else, or she was hopelessly drunk/stoned/otherwise drugged up and failed to notice a killing in the same room, or a nearby room.

Just asking, I didn't follow the case closely enough to know.

Oh, I wasn't getting pissy or anything, I'm glad you asked too since it's at the core of her defense.
And to your question: I don't know.

Like you, I'm not an armchair expert on this.


Yeah, I'd have to go back and look. The guy who is actually in prison for sexual assault and murder has changed is story so many times it's not funny either. In has case, there's DNA and physical evidence backing up his involvement. I've read he's stated he was in the house with her alone, then he was kissing her, went to the bathroom and came back finding a shadowing figure over her with a knife who fled and also changing it to say he saw Knox leaving...
 
2014-01-31 11:13:06 AM  
The one thing that is true about this whole case is it probably wouldn't have gotten the press if she was ugly.  So if she was ugly she would be rotting away in an Italian jail, good thing she's not.
 
2014-01-31 11:14:20 AM  

yakmans_dad: sovietski: nekom: HotWingConspiracy:
Do you really think people here are going to be ok with shipping her off to an Italian prison after their bizarre 3rd world justice system decided they were going to convict on a do over?

Not to mention that this is a country that jailed geologists for failing to predict an earthquake.  As much contempt I have for our own justice system, theirs is FAR worse, and demonstrably so.  No way in hell I'd extradite anyone to Italy if it were up to me.

Dafuq?

Surely you jest.

/not calling you Shirley

http://bit.ly/1eDcMZB


O.o

I'm surprised the prosecutor didn't try to say that the seismologists were having a gay, Satanic, drug-fueled orgy while they were supposed to be predicting the earthquake.

I am going to have to check out the book a Farker recommended yesterday in the Knox thread, by Douglas Preston. Apparently he got a first hand glimpse of Italian prosecutorial craziness.

/such a beautiful country
//mmm buffalo mozzarella
 
2014-01-31 11:14:20 AM  

Ant: walktoanarcade: You're annoyed because not only do I have the gall to disagree, but I refuse to make myself a clone of you or your cronies.

What's annoying is that you seem to be taking the opposite stance because you think it makes you look smart. It doesn't.


That's not it because my stance on this case is based on what was reported years ago.
Do you honestly believe that I think for a second that adopting a contrary position for the sake of being contrary is smart?  I often say, rebellion for rebelling's sake is stupid.
 
2014-01-31 11:15:07 AM  

walktoanarcade: MagicianNamedGob: walktoanarcade: Differing opinions sure do smart, eh?

Ow ow ow..;

Her story is unbelievable. She either helped or watched, albeit stoney-eyed.

Explain the logic underlying that conclusion, if you can.

All right. When the story first broke, I remember her saying that she was there, but too drugged out to do any killing, then her story changed to her not being there at all.


She has always said she was at Sollecito's apartment. She never said she was in the room at the time of the murder - except once, according to police. The police claimed she made statements to that effect, but they abused her into giving a false statement. They questioned her for hours, deprived her of sleep and food, promised her she wasn't a suspect and could go if she told them what they wanted to hear, and then made her sign a statement in Italian while in that condition, without a translator, and without ever seeing an attorney. The statement named an innocent man as the killer and was completely wrong. The police fed her the innocent man's name (it was her boss at the bar where she worked) because they found texts between them sent shortly before the murder. The police then promptly "lost" the interrogation tapes. They kept their signed statement though.
 
2014-01-31 11:19:03 AM  

Kentucky Fried Children: If Knox was a smart girl, the minute she was released after the first jail stint she would've moved to a country with no extradition treaty with the Italians.


Moving to a country with no extradition treaty isn't the escape route a lot of people think it is.  Extradition treaties work both ways, as in they can allow for extradition and they can also prevent it, and they generally force the countries in question to handle the matter in a civilised fashion and in a reasonable amount of time.

Just because a country doesn't have an extradition treaty with another does  not mean they won't extradite, but it  does mean someone is subject to that country's own legal system with no protection of a treaty.  More than a few people in situations like this one have run off to countries without bilateral treaties and have found the country where they were convicted still requests extradition and the "no treaty" country just tosses them in a local hellhole prison for several years while they figure out what to do.  It's not a get out of jail free card.

But she didn't, and chose to stay in the US where we have a strong bilateral history of extradition with them.

My guess in this case, although I haven't read the treaty in question, is that there is probably something in there about refusing extradition if the trial in Italy would have been illegal by USA laws, which this would have been due to the Double Jeopardy clause.
 
2014-01-31 11:19:36 AM  

whitman00: walktoanarcade: Differing opinions sure do smart, eh?

Ow ow ow..;

Her story is unbelievable. She either helped or watched, albeit stoney-eyed.

She got high with her boyfriend and hung out all night though the details are kinda hazy to her.

Meanwhile in a blood splattered room where a horrific struggle took place there is zero evidence she was ever there.
And a guy who was there has confessed to being there, been sentenced, and changed his tune on his story so many times it'll be interesting to see what he says next.


I can't ignore that, if true. It would be quite a feat to not leave any physical evidence.  Then again, people in the U.S. have been put to death by circumstantial evidence, so being "clean" isn't a sure bet to avoid a murder rap.   We're talking about Italy, though, so I have no clue as to how they feel.
 
2014-01-31 11:24:27 AM  

ShadowKamui: jaytkay: The UK press has really whipped up a hate fest for Knox.

Is that just the tabloids or do the real new outlets agree?

Just the tabloids, the BBC has the whole write-up about how the police sucked and failed forensics 101




In their article on her conviction yesterday they conveniently left out that Rudy Guede had been found guilty of the murder and his hand print in the victims blood was found at the scene along with a bloody footprint. I don't know how Knox gets convicted when the only physical evidence points to someone else. A lot of the coverage leaves out that crucial part.
 
2014-01-31 11:25:15 AM  

mjones73: walktoanarcade: mjones73: walktoanarcade: mjones73: walktoanarcade: Someone REALLY wants to bang her. ;)

Anyway, there's no way she didn't know of or participate in the murder, and if the accused were a male or ugly woman, no one would care.

If the killing took place inside an epically huge mansion, then maybe I would believe her bullshiat story.

Is there some proof she was in the apartment at the time it happened?

Heh, so much for her defense that she was too stoned to notice anything(which is a lame excuse anyway).

Which is it? She had all her mental faculties and was somewhere else, or she was hopelessly drunk/stoned/otherwise drugged up and failed to notice a killing in the same room, or a nearby room.

Just asking, I didn't follow the case closely enough to know.

Oh, I wasn't getting pissy or anything, I'm glad you asked too since it's at the core of her defense.
And to your question: I don't know.

Like you, I'm not an armchair expert on this.

Yeah, I'd have to go back and look. The guy who is actually in prison for sexual assault and murder has changed is story so many times it's not funny either. In has case, there's DNA and physical evidence backing up his involvement. I've read he's stated he was in the house with her alone, then he was kissing her, went to the bathroom and came back finding a shadowing figure over her with a knife who fled and also changing it to say he saw Knox leaving...


At least he's in prison, huh? This still makes me wonder how in the world Knox didn't know anything if she was there, if she wasn't, does she have an alibi?

We'll probably never know what happened exactly.
 
2014-01-31 11:27:43 AM  

MagicianNamedGob: walktoanarcade: MagicianNamedGob: walktoanarcade: Differing opinions sure do smart, eh?

Ow ow ow..;

Her story is unbelievable. She either helped or watched, albeit stoney-eyed.

Explain the logic underlying that conclusion, if you can.

All right. When the story first broke, I remember her saying that she was there, but too drugged out to do any killing, then her story changed to her not being there at all.

She has always said she was at Sollecito's apartment. She never said she was in the room at the time of the murder - except once, according to police. The police claimed she made statements to that effect, but they abused her into giving a false statement. They questioned her for hours, deprived her of sleep and food, promised her she wasn't a suspect and could go if she told them what they wanted to hear, and then made her sign a statement in Italian while in that condition, without a translator, and without ever seeing an attorney. The statement named an innocent man as the killer and was completely wrong. The police fed her the innocent man's name (it was her boss at the bar where she worked) because they found texts between them sent shortly before the murder. The police then promptly "lost" the interrogation tapes. They kept their signed statement though.


If that's all true, then she's been railroaded, and it's a travesty of injustice.

The losing of the tapes sounds oh so convenient I must admit.
 
2014-01-31 11:28:38 AM  

Headso: [www.pepperidgefarm.com image 372x397]

RIP Mr. Sausalito


Mmmmmmm.  Yummy.  Now I need a refreshing glass of cold whole milk.  I'm sure my cubicle neighbors won't mind my lactose intolerance.
 
2014-01-31 11:30:34 AM  

discount sushi: ShadowKamui: jaytkay: The UK press has really whipped up a hate fest for Knox.

Is that just the tabloids or do the real new outlets agree?

Just the tabloids, the BBC has the whole write-up about how the police sucked and failed forensics 101

In their article on her conviction yesterday they conveniently left out that Rudy Guede had been found guilty of the murder and his hand print in the victims blood was found at the scene along with a bloody footprint. I don't know how Knox gets convicted when the only physical evidence points to someone else. A lot of the coverage leaves out that crucial part.


As mentioned by parties on all sides of this -- the burglar vagrant man raping and murdering a woman angle is nowhere as lurid or headline-inspiring as the Privileged-Imperialist-American-Sex-Murdering-Sociopath-Femme-Fatale-S atanist-Orgy-Murder angle.

The only difference is: some people note that there's no public, physical evidence of her involvement or proximity in a gruesome stabbing and murder, only of the one guy who's already in prison, and some people say they just know that she's guilty because she has that look in her eye and was just obviously there.
 
2014-01-31 11:32:42 AM  

SlothB77: He had apparently crossed over the border into Austria late last night - but returned to Italy of his own accord, Sky's Nick Pisa said.


dumbass.


I don't know, 28 years in prison vs living in Austria? Tough choice.
 
2014-01-31 11:34:01 AM  

walktoanarcade: whitman00: walktoanarcade: Differing opinions sure do smart, eh?

Ow ow ow..;

Her story is unbelievable. She either helped or watched, albeit stoney-eyed.

She got high with her boyfriend and hung out all night though the details are kinda hazy to her.

Meanwhile in a blood splattered room where a horrific struggle took place there is zero evidence she was ever there.
And a guy who was there has confessed to being there, been sentenced, and changed his tune on his story so many times it'll be interesting to see what he says next.

I can't ignore that, if true. It would be quite a feat to not leave any physical evidence.  Then again, people in the U.S. have been put to death by circumstantial evidence, so being "clean" isn't a sure bet to avoid a murder rap.   We're talking about Italy, though, so I have no clue as to how they feel.


People convicted based on circumstantial evidence usually have a clear motive or the exclusive opportunity to commit murder. Generally people are not convicted on circumstantial evidence when another person's DNA is found in the victim's vagina and under her fingernails, left bloody fingerprints on her bed, and that person also happens to be a serial burglar and drug dealer who was recently arrested with a knife and then caught trying to flee to Germany. The killer, Rudy Guede, also confessed and did so without naming Knox or Sollecito.
 
2014-01-31 11:34:21 AM  

SurelyShirley: SlothB77: He had apparently crossed over the border into Austria late last night - but returned to Italy of his own accord, Sky's Nick Pisa said.


dumbass.

I don't know, 28 years in prison vs living in Austria? Tough choice.


What, people don't just sit around, get stoned and jam in Austria?

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-31 11:35:35 AM  

walktoanarcade: No, but it's true in a lot of cases. (see Casey Anthony)


Who the fark defended Casey Anthony other than her lawyer? Everybody knew she was guilty. Was she smoking hot, hells yes, but that didn't change anybody's opinion that she killed her daughter other than maybe a handful of crazy people who probably also defend Michael Jackson.

You're an idiot.

Some drifter with a history of breaking into homes broke into their apartment and raped and killed Kercher, and Knox and Sollecito decided to participate? What world do you live in?
 
2014-01-31 11:37:26 AM  

SurelyShirley: SlothB77: He had apparently crossed over the border into Austria late last night - but returned to Italy of his own accord, Sky's Nick Pisa said.


dumbass.

I don't know, 28 years in prison vs living in Austria? Tough choice.


Seriously. Austria makes those that wish to divorce wait six months.
 
2014-01-31 11:42:51 AM  

walktoanarcade: Whoops, "contrary to their position,..doesn't scare me off."

Grow some thicker skin, some of you.




www.tacomaworld.com
 
2014-01-31 11:43:06 AM  
Amanda Knox needs to stop doing interviews. Seriously.

They have no evidence and botched the whole investigation and the prosecutor is a lunatic and the entire justice system over there is a joke.

Yet when Amanda talks, I swear I think she's guilty. Anybody see her this morning on GMA? She was crying, but no tears were coming out of her eyes. There's just something...off...about her.
 
2014-01-31 11:43:24 AM  

MagicianNamedGob: walktoanarcade: whitman00: walktoanarcade: Differing opinions sure do smart, eh?

Ow ow ow..;

Her story is unbelievable. She either helped or watched, albeit stoney-eyed.

She got high with her boyfriend and hung out all night though the details are kinda hazy to her.

Meanwhile in a blood splattered room where a horrific struggle took place there is zero evidence she was ever there.
And a guy who was there has confessed to being there, been sentenced, and changed his tune on his story so many times it'll be interesting to see what he says next.

I can't ignore that, if true. It would be quite a feat to not leave any physical evidence.  Then again, people in the U.S. have been put to death by circumstantial evidence, so being "clean" isn't a sure bet to avoid a murder rap.   We're talking about Italy, though, so I have no clue as to how they feel.

People convicted based on circumstantial evidence usually have a clear motive or the exclusive opportunity to commit murder. Generally people are not convicted on circumstantial evidence when another person's DNA is found in the victim's vagina and under her fingernails, left bloody fingerprints on her bed, and that person also happens to be a serial burglar and drug dealer who was recently arrested with a knife and then caught trying to flee to Germany. The killer, Rudy Guede, also confessed and did so without naming Knox or Sollecito.


Ah, thanks for sharing that with me. *vomits*  No, really, though.

If you're wondering if I'm reconsidering based on what you've said, you're right.  She still strikes me as guilty in some way and the story from "Rudy" could be apocryphal, buy hey, I could be wrong.
 
2014-01-31 11:44:56 AM  

mudesi: Amanda Knox needs to stop doing interviews. Seriously.

They have no evidence and botched the whole investigation and the prosecutor is a lunatic and the entire justice system over there is a joke.

Yet when Amanda talks, I swear I think she's guilty. Anybody see her this morning on GMA? She was crying, but no tears were coming out of her eyes. There's just something...off...about her.


That's my biggest problem with her new appearances. Yes.
 
2014-01-31 11:45:21 AM  

walktoanarcade: SurelyShirley: SlothB77: He had apparently crossed over the border into Austria late last night - but returned to Italy of his own accord, Sky's Nick Pisa said.


dumbass.

I don't know, 28 years in prison vs living in Austria? Tough choice.

Seriously. Austria makes those that wish to divorce wait six months.


Sollecito strikes me as having a serious case of Honour Before Reason. I get that he wants his name cleared and he's been railroaded to hell and back, but seriously, once you're out of the country, STAY OUT. Though I'm pretty sure Austria would have extradited him to Italy in any case, he could have gone from there to somewhere less friendly to Italian "justice" at the moment.
 
2014-01-31 11:46:17 AM  

Kit Fister: Say what you want about the American justice system, but this case is a prime example of why Double Jeopardy is a valuable thing.


This also lets you write books called, If I Did It
 
2014-01-31 11:48:14 AM  

walktoanarcade: mudesi: Amanda Knox needs to stop doing interviews. Seriously.

They have no evidence and botched the whole investigation and the prosecutor is a lunatic and the entire justice system over there is a joke.

Yet when Amanda talks, I swear I think she's guilty. Anybody see her this morning on GMA? She was crying, but no tears were coming out of her eyes. There's just something...off...about her.

That's my biggest problem with her new appearances. Yes.


I think that was part of her problem to begin with -- she just presents herself oddly. In a way she reminds me of some of the kids on the spectrum at my son's school (no, I'm NOT saying she's on the spectrum, just drawing a comparison) in the way that they don't quite seem to really get what "appropriate" reactions to something are, and often have to learn to do them by rote. None of which means they're more likely to kill someone or have magical DNA-erasing powers, but for someone who doesn't know much about the case, unfortunately they're likely to look at her and think "There's something off about that chick."

Of course, the five years of being internationally reviled as a witch and four years in prison probably didn't help her presentation either.
 
2014-01-31 11:50:52 AM  

Por que tan serioso: yukichigai: Por que tan serioso: the8re: It's simple: if other countries won't extradite to the US because capital punishment, then we should refuse to export Amanda because FARK YOU THAT'S WHY! double jeopardy.

Except that, as has been stated many many many times, it is not double jeopardy. At all. According to American law. Or Italian.

Double Jeopardy protection kicks in the minute there is a verdict of Not Guilty.  So long as that verdict was made by a court which had jurisdiction at the time then that's it.

The only way this wouldn't be Double Jeopardy as the US defines it is if the higher Italian court overturned the Not Guilty verdict because the lower court was bribed or similar.  If there was a risk she could have been convicted (or was "in jeopardy") and then she wasn't then the protection stands.

walktoanarcade: Someone REALLY wants to bang her. ;)

Anyway, there's no way she didn't know of or participate in the murder, and if the accused were a male or ugly woman, no one would care.

If the killing took place inside an epically huge mansion, then maybe I would believe her bullshiat story.

4/10.  Might get a few nibbles, but anybody who spent more than about five minutes reading the details of the events is going to know better.

Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.


I thought once there was ANY verdict, DJ came into play.  Any lawyers wanna help us out?
 
2014-01-31 11:51:08 AM  

BgJonson79: Por que tan serioso: the8re: It's simple: if other countries won't extradite to the US because capital punishment, then we should refuse to export Amanda because FARK YOU THAT'S WHY! double jeopardy.

Except that, as has been stated many many many times, it is not double jeopardy. At all. According to American law. Or Italian.

Source?


In the article posted to the main page yesterday it was discussed near the end.
 
2014-01-31 11:52:08 AM  

RenownedCurator: walktoanarcade: mudesi: Amanda Knox needs to stop doing interviews. Seriously.

They have no evidence and botched the whole investigation and the prosecutor is a lunatic and the entire justice system over there is a joke.

Yet when Amanda talks, I swear I think she's guilty. Anybody see her this morning on GMA? She was crying, but no tears were coming out of her eyes. There's just something...off...about her.

That's my biggest problem with her new appearances. Yes.

I think that was part of her problem to begin with -- she just presents herself oddly. In a way she reminds me of some of the kids on the spectrum at my son's school (no, I'm NOT saying she's on the spectrum, just drawing a comparison) in the way that they don't quite seem to really get what "appropriate" reactions to something are, and often have to learn to do them by rote. None of which means they're more likely to kill someone or have magical DNA-erasing powers, but for someone who doesn't know much about the case, unfortunately they're likely to look at her and think "There's something off about that chick."

Of course, the five years of being internationally reviled as a witch and four years in prison probably didn't help her presentation either.


I don't know...If you saw her on GMA this morning, I swear she looked like she was fake crying. It's possible she was involved in this murder, but they most certainly can't prove it.
 
2014-01-31 11:53:18 AM  

mjbok: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Her guilty verdict was over-turned and she was acquitted.  You are wrong.  http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox/


Nope. I afraid we have reached the point in a fark thread where i can continue to explain it but I will never be able to understand it for you.
 
2014-01-31 11:53:48 AM  

Por que tan serioso: BgJonson79: Por que tan serioso: the8re: It's simple: if other countries won't extradite to the US because capital punishment, then we should refuse to export Amanda because FARK YOU THAT'S WHY! double jeopardy.

Except that, as has been stated many many many times, it is not double jeopardy. At all. According to American law. Or Italian.

Source?

In the article posted to the main page yesterday it was discussed near the end.


So I have to go digging for your proof?  Sounds like the Italian legal system.
 
2014-01-31 11:54:07 AM  

RenownedCurator: walktoanarcade: mudesi: Amanda Knox needs to stop doing interviews. Seriously.

They have no evidence and botched the whole investigation and the prosecutor is a lunatic and the entire justice system over there is a joke.

Yet when Amanda talks, I swear I think she's guilty. Anybody see her this morning on GMA? She was crying, but no tears were coming out of her eyes. There's just something...off...about her.

That's my biggest problem with her new appearances. Yes.

I think that was part of her problem to begin with -- she just presents herself oddly. In a way she reminds me of some of the kids on the spectrum at my son's school (no, I'm NOT saying she's on the spectrum, just drawing a comparison) in the way that they don't quite seem to really get what "appropriate" reactions to something are, and often have to learn to do them by rote. None of which means they're more likely to kill someone or have magical DNA-erasing powers, but for someone who doesn't know much about the case, unfortunately they're likely to look at her and think "There's something off about that chick."

Of course, the five years of being internationally reviled as a witch and four years in prison probably didn't help her presentation either.


Maybe that's the whole reason why I tend to think she's guilty. If so, I apologize to the world, if not, then no sorries and take backsies.

As I was reading what you wrote, I was remembering that I react oddly sometimes, like if someone accuses me of something ridiculous, I tend to laugh even if it's serious(not all the time). It can be a problem, but I stifle it as much as I can(like if I'm pulled over for speeding).

It has caused people to "know" I was lying, but then they find out I was telling the truth and they're like, "then why were you acting silly/funny?", and I tell them, "that's the way I am."

Remind me never to go to Italy to party. Visit yes, party, no. If something happens, they'll never believe me.
 
2014-01-31 11:54:26 AM  

Por que tan serioso: mjbok: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Her guilty verdict was over-turned and she was acquitted.  You are wrong.  http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox/

Nope. I afraid we have reached the point in a fark thread where i can continue to explain it but I will never be able to understand it for you.


So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?
 
2014-01-31 11:54:58 AM  
Jeez. Everybody's a Judge WOPner.
 
2014-01-31 11:56:02 AM  

yukichigai: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Uh yes, actually she was.  It was a formal acquittal, i.e. the jury found her not guilty.


Alan Dershowitz disagrees.
 
2014-01-31 11:59:56 AM  
I know he does not have the combined legal experience of a cnn article but I am going with his opinion on this. As well as 10+ years in criminal defense.
 
2014-01-31 12:00:08 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-01-31 12:00:57 PM  
www.troll.me
 
2014-01-31 12:01:40 PM  

BgJonson79: Por que tan serioso: BgJonson79: Por que tan serioso: the8re: It's simple: if other countries won't extradite to the US because capital punishment, then we should refuse to export Amanda because FARK YOU THAT'S WHY! double jeopardy.

Except that, as has been stated many many many times, it is not double jeopardy. At all. According to American law. Or Italian.

Source?

In the article posted to the main page yesterday it was discussed near the end.

So I have to go digging for your proof?  Sounds like the Italian legal system.


Ha!! Im on a mobile. Google "alan dershowitz amanda knox".
 
2014-01-31 12:02:02 PM  
BgJonson79:
So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

It's more like when someone in the U.S. gets a conviction turned over on appeal. It's not an acquittal and the case can be retried if the prosecution decides to do so. Double Jeopardy is not attached. Which is why people need to stop talking about double jeopardy being a reason she won't be extradited. It just doesn't apply.
 
2014-01-31 12:04:10 PM  

Por que tan serioso: yukichigai: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Uh yes, actually she was.  It was a formal acquittal, i.e. the jury found her not guilty.

Alan Dershowitz disagrees.


I gave a GED in law, and even I know that Knox wasn't found not guilty and acquitted.
 
2014-01-31 12:05:39 PM  

Watubi: Kit Fister: Say what you want about the American justice system, but this case is a prime example of why Double Jeopardy is a valuable thing.

This also lets you write books called, If I Did It


Better than a hundred guilty men go free than one innocent man go to prison.
 
2014-01-31 12:06:11 PM  
So just out of curosity what is Nancy Grace saying about this one?
 
2014-01-31 12:06:20 PM  

Kit Fister: Watubi: Kit Fister: Say what you want about the American justice system, but this case is a prime example of why Double Jeopardy is a valuable thing.

This also lets you write books called, If I Did It

Better that a hundred guilty men go free than one innocent man go to prison.


ftfm
 
2014-01-31 12:07:00 PM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: BgJonson79:
So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

It's more like when someone in the U.S. gets a conviction turned over on appeal. It's not an acquittal and the case can be retried if the prosecution decides to do so. Double Jeopardy is not attached. Which is why people need to stop talking about double jeopardy being a reason she won't be extradited. It just doesn't apply.


You sir, are correct.
 
2014-01-31 12:08:10 PM  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctpv_OtJVjk

Her whole manner is off and fake.  The doubts were piling up and I picked a video that was not advertized as a pure slam against her, although "I feel bad for my younger self." is a weird statement to make.

Shiat, I never feel bad for my past self because he does not exist, the past like the future is an illusion, here I am, same as ever, though aging on a cellular level.
 
2014-01-31 12:09:03 PM  
I think that there is an exception in the treaties that would allow for denial of extradition. I can't find it at the moment but I did hear it referenced on more than one news outlet.
 
2014-01-31 12:09:49 PM  

walktoanarcade: I matter so little you just had to tell me so. ;)

Unlike most of you, my manner isn't the same for every thread because every thread is different. I put far more work into some posts than others, that's for sure.


I don't think you're a troll at all.  People just don't like different opinions and hate it when people aren't bothered when they call them a troll.

As a viewer, when someone immediately calls troll, I tend to re-read their posts carefully.  Nothing you have done seems trollish at all.  It just seems your opinion is that she's guilty, regardless whether she's hot or not.

Nothing wrong with that and anyone who calls you a troll should really stop being so closed-minded.

I don't know if she did it or not, but she should just go away and hide for a bit.  Name change, move somewhere else, I dunno.
 
2014-01-31 12:10:34 PM  

Oldiron_79: So just out of curosity what is Nancy Grace saying about this one?


who cares what that gasseous windbag has to say?
 
2014-01-31 12:10:50 PM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: Por que tan serioso: yukichigai: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Uh yes, actually she was.  It was a formal acquittal, i.e. the jury found her not guilty.

Alan Dershowitz disagrees.

I gave a GED in law, and even I know that Knox wasn't found not guilty and acquitted.


Well I threw up AD because he is know world wide as advocate for wrongfully convicted murderers and even he is saying she is likely farked. That way we can save some bandwidth for Zimmerman arguments and such.
 
2014-01-31 12:10:53 PM  
Is Amanda Knox right or left-handed?
 
2014-01-31 12:12:03 PM  

walktoanarcade: mudesi: Amanda Knox needs to stop doing interviews. Seriously.

They have no evidence and botched the whole investigation and the prosecutor is a lunatic and the entire justice system over there is a joke.

Yet when Amanda talks, I swear I think she's guilty. Anybody see her this morning on GMA? She was crying, but no tears were coming out of her eyes. There's just something...off...about her.

That's my biggest problem with her new appearances. Yes.


You guys watch GMA?
 
2014-01-31 12:13:40 PM  

WhoGAS: walktoanarcade: I matter so little you just had to tell me so. ;)

Unlike most of you, my manner isn't the same for every thread because every thread is different. I put far more work into some posts than others, that's for sure.

I don't think you're a troll at all.  People just don't like different opinions and hate it when people aren't bothered when they call them a troll.

As a viewer, when someone immediately calls troll, I tend to re-read their posts carefully.  Nothing you have done seems trollish at all.  It just seems your opinion is that she's guilty, regardless whether she's hot or not.

Nothing wrong with that and anyone who calls you a troll should really stop being so closed-minded.

I don't know if she did it or not, but she should just go away and hide for a bit.  Name change, move somewhere else, I dunno.


Thank you; you made my day. :)  I mean it, I'll buy you a friggen steak dinner for saying that if I ever get the chance.  I appreciate good readers!
 
2014-01-31 12:14:40 PM  

Rapmaster2000: walktoanarcade: mudesi: Amanda Knox needs to stop doing interviews. Seriously.

They have no evidence and botched the whole investigation and the prosecutor is a lunatic and the entire justice system over there is a joke.

Yet when Amanda talks, I swear I think she's guilty. Anybody see her this morning on GMA? She was crying, but no tears were coming out of her eyes. There's just something...off...about her.

That's my biggest problem with her new appearances. Yes.

You guys watch GMA?


Clips, sure now and then like anyone. The full show? Not since the 1980s.
 
2014-01-31 12:17:31 PM  

FnkyTwn: Who the fark defended Casey Anthony other than her lawyer? Everybody knew she was guilty. Was she smoking hot, hells yes, but that didn't change anybody's opinion that she killed her daughter other than maybe a handful of crazy people who probably also defend Michael Jackson.

You're an idiot.

Some drifter with a history of breaking into homes broke into their apartment and raped and killed Kercher, and Knox and Sollecito decided to participate? What world do you live in?


Yo!

I was a bit cynical towards the Casey Anthony prosecution, mainly from them announcing they would be going for the death penalty on her despite not even having a body, proof of death, or cause of death at the time.

Now, I have no doubt she disposed of the body / knew the kid was dead but they still don't even have a cause of death.  My bet would be that the cause of death was accidental or even natural but Anthony, being a complete and total idiot / substance abuser panicked and though that hiding the body and lying about what happened was a safer bet then admitting the kid died due to neglect/accident.
 
2014-01-31 12:18:02 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: WinoRhino: HotWingConspiracy: WinoRhino: HotWingConspiracy: Extraditing her will cause a political crisis.

How do you figure?

Do you really think people here are going to be ok with shipping her off to an Italian prison after their bizarre 3rd world justice system decided they were going to convict on a do over?

Do you actually think she's going anywhere? They will request extradition. The USA, due to our standards of justice (protection from double jeopardy) will simply deny the request. It's actually a perfectly acceptable thing to do according to the existing treaties that are in place. The end.

A rather experienced lawyer disagrees with your take.


Dershowitz is good, I'd probably want to hire him if I had the money and got in serious legal trouble. However, like anyone else, he's been known to be wrong. There's also the reality that the US simply flouts laws it finds inconvenient. Hence neither Henry Kissinger nor Dick Cheney will ever be arraigned at the Hague.
 
2014-01-31 12:18:45 PM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: BgJonson79:
So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

It's more like when someone in the U.S. gets a conviction turned over on appeal. It's not an acquittal and the case can be retried if the prosecution decides to do so. Double Jeopardy is not attached. Which is why people need to stop talking about double jeopardy being a reason she won't be extradited. It just doesn't apply.


That only applies when the decision is overturned on some procedural grounds or in other very specific circumstances.  In this case, the judge explicitly said that he was acquitting Knox because the prosecution's case didn't even remotely prove Knox was involved.  That's not procedural, that's a finding of fact.  In the US if that happens it takes some very contorted circumstances where that doesn't invoke Double Jeopardy.


Por que tan serioso: yukichigai: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Uh yes, actually she was.  It was a formal acquittal, i.e. the jury found her not guilty.

Alan Dershowitz disagrees.


The only thing Dershowitz says on the topic is that the US-Italy treaty only explicitly mentions double jeopardy as a reason for rejecting an extradition request if the crime was already tried in a US court.  He says nothing on the result of the appeal itself, just what can be expected to follow.

Bizarrely, he also seems convinced that the evidence against her is "strong", despite the only things he can point to being her alleged statement that she was there and someone else did it, and the fact that the story later "changed".  Y'know, the statement signed possibly under duress after a 50 hour interrogation where the tapes of said interrogation magically went missing?
 
2014-01-31 12:22:32 PM  
walktoanarcade:

Clips, sure now and then like anyone. The full show? Not since the 1980s.

I certainly hope not.  I hope that only 10% of the population regularly watches anything from a morning soft-news show.  GMA is like Inside Edition with a larger budget.
 
2014-01-31 12:23:11 PM  
People seem convinced that Austria is some sort of impregnable fortress where Sollecito'd have been safe forever. Somehow I doubt that Austria would have very many qualms at all about shipping his ass straight back to their next-door neighbor.
 
2014-01-31 12:23:33 PM  

Kit Fister: Oldiron_79: So just out of curosity what is Nancy Grace saying about this one?

who cares what that gasseous windbag has to say?


Honestly not me I was just trolling because invoking her name starts a flame war.
 
2014-01-31 12:25:42 PM  

Rapmaster2000: walktoanarcade:

Clips, sure now and then like anyone. The full show? Not since the 1980s.

I certainly hope not.  I hope that only 10% of the population regularly watches anything from a morning soft-news show.  GMA is like Inside Edition with a larger budget.


No, argument here, but if an alleged killer is interviewed on their show..
 
2014-01-31 12:27:28 PM  

BigNumber12: People seem convinced that Austria is some sort of impregnable fortress where Sollecito'd have been safe forever. Somehow I doubt that Austria would have very many qualms at all about shipping his ass straight back to their next-door neighbor.


They don't. Austria's motto may as well be: "Tough Shiat, follow strict rules or leave/die"
 
2014-01-31 12:30:51 PM  

Cold_Sassy: raatz01: Poor bastard.

^^^^
This.  That whole trial was a joke.  The crime scene was contaminated and they had no forensic proof. He should've stayed in Austria.  I know I darn sure would've.  If I was Amanda, I'd go somewhere other than Seattle and keep it quiet.


She did an interview on national TV this morning.  Not so good at hiding.
 
2014-01-31 12:31:46 PM  
There is zero (0%) chance that Amanda is extradited to Italy.

No judge or politician is going to throw away their political career to send a young American woman, perceived innocent by the American populace, to rot in a foreign prison.
 
2014-01-31 12:33:16 PM  

yukichigai: Some Bass Playing Guy: BgJonson79:
So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

It's more like when someone in the U.S. gets a conviction turned over on appeal. It's not an acquittal and the case can be retried if the prosecution decides to do so. Double Jeopardy is not attached. Which is why people need to stop talking about double jeopardy being a reason she won't be extradited. It just doesn't apply.

That only applies when the decision is overturned on some procedural grounds or in other very specific circumstances.  In this case, the judge explicitly said that he was acquitting Knox because the prosecution's case didn't even remotely prove Knox was involved.  That's not procedural, that's a finding of fact.  In the US if that happens it takes some very contorted circumstances where that doesn't invoke Double Jeopardy.


Por que tan serioso: yukichigai: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Uh yes, actually she was.  It was a formal acquittal, i.e. the jury found her not guilty.

Alan Dershowitz disagrees.

The only thing Dershowitz says on the topic is that the US-Italy treaty only explicitly mentions double jeopardy as a reason for rejecting an extradition request if the crime was already tried in a US court.  He says nothing on the result of the appeal itself, just what can be expected to follow.

Bizarrely, he also seems convinced that the evidence against her is "strong", despite the only things he can point to being her alleged statement that she was there and someone else did it, and the fact that the story later "changed".  Y'know, the statement signed possibly under duress after a 50 hour interrogation where the tapes of said interrogation magically went missing?


There are many nuances in the case. However, double jeopardy simply does not apply in this case(.)
 
Ant
2014-01-31 12:34:39 PM  

mudesi: Yet when Amanda talks, I swear I think she's guilty. Anybody see her this morning on GMA? She was crying, but no tears were coming out of her eyes. There's just something...off...about her.


So what? Not everyone has the same emotional response to every situation. Were I in her shoes, I'd probably have part of my mind telling me that I didn't look sad enough. That would prompt me to try to look sadder, which would cause me to look like I was faking my responses. This is just how my brain works.
 
2014-01-31 12:34:59 PM  

RectalDamage: There is zero (0%) chance that Amanda is extradited to Italy.

No judge or politician is going to throw away their political career to send a young American woman, perceived innocent by the American populace, to rot in a foreign prison.


I wonder if the Italian Supreme Court is going to use that logic as well.
"If we find her innocent we'd look bad to Italians, but since the US isn't likely to extradite her we can just find her guilty without her having to go to jail.  Win win!"
 
2014-01-31 12:35:39 PM  

walktoanarcade: BigNumber12: People seem convinced that Austria is some sort of impregnable fortress where Sollecito'd have been safe forever. Somehow I doubt that Austria would have very many qualms at all about shipping his ass straight back to their next-door neighbor.

They don't. Austria's motto may as well be: "Tough Shiat, follow strict rules or leave/die"


That's what I mean. I didn't get any impression while there of their being the sort of place that would make a principled stand on something like this - particularly not for a foreigner.
 
2014-01-31 12:37:59 PM  

RectalDamage: There is zero (0%) chance that Amanda is extradited to Italy.

No judge or politician is going to throw away their political career to send a young American woman, perceived innocent by the American populace, to rot in a foreign prison.


Exactly this. Whatever the convoluted particulars of Italian law, this is far too close to (American) Double Jeopardy for any American Politician to want to stick their neck out and support.
 
Ant
2014-01-31 12:38:47 PM  

RenownedCurator: In a way she reminds me of some of the kids on the spectrum at my son's school (no, I'm NOT saying she's on the spectrum, just drawing a comparison) in the way that they don't quite seem to really get what "appropriate" reactions to something are, and often have to learn to do them by rote.


I think I have that. I'd be farked in the court of public opinion if I was ever accused of anything serious. I'd probably look like I was guilty of something.

That's why I hate it when people say things like "his/her reactions just seemed off"
 
2014-01-31 12:41:21 PM  
Extraditing her won't cause a political crisis because it will never happen.
 
2014-01-31 12:41:54 PM  
I'm curious what the Italian perspective is on this.  I live in the Seattle media market, so I have no illusions that I'm not getting a slanted view of things.  Does the Italian public think this is all legit?

/I realize public sentiment does not equal guilt
//Locals might have a sense on how screwed up their legal system is.
 
2014-01-31 12:42:14 PM  

BgJonson79: Por que tan serioso: mjbok: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Her guilty verdict was over-turned and she was acquitted.  You are wrong.  http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox/

Nope. I afraid we have reached the point in a fark thread where i can continue to explain it but I will never be able to understand it for you.

So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?


Translation mishap. America doesn't really have an equivalent term.

Her "acquittal" was more of a mistrial verdict. Which even in America would lead to a retrial. It wasn't actually a not guilty verdict but it did give her the right to travel, etc.

It feels like double jeopardy... but there again the OJ case seems very similar to me. Would be clear cut if police didn't bumble around and give defense an out. Found not guilty but then found guilty in a civic trial?

After reading news in three different languages from different countries... yes I think she is guilty... almost certainly of murder... but if not, she's covering something up and I think even her defenders would agree she is a compulsive liar...

I do think the prosecution are complete f-ups and the trial has been an utter disaster.

If she were tried in this country she would probably be able to claim temporary insanity and get out in a month.
 
2014-01-31 12:46:52 PM  

Eirik: I'm curious what the Italian perspective is on this. I live in the Seattle media market, so I have no illusions that I'm not getting a slanted view of things. Does the Italian public think this is all legit?


Most of Europe seems to have been utterly convinced by their media that this is legit. They're completely sold on her guilt.
 
2014-01-31 12:47:55 PM  

Eirik: I'm curious what the Italian perspective is on this.  I live in the Seattle media market, so I have no illusions that I'm not getting a slanted view of things.  Does the Italian public think this is all legit?

/I realize public sentiment does not equal guilt
//Locals might have a sense on how screwed up their legal system is.


In Europe most people think the prosecution made a lot of mistakes, for sure. The majority of people think she is guilty, but some think she is innocent.

You find much wider range of reporting angles too.

In us media you just get "poor sweet angelic American girl charged with heinous murder some Johnny-foreigner committed".

In Britain, Italy, Germany, etc you get stories ranging from "satanic sex witch goes on killing spree" to balanced articles posting pros and cons... and the same "poor angel" stories.
 
2014-01-31 12:49:21 PM  

Por que tan serioso: There are many nuances in the case. However, double jeopardy simply does not apply in this case(.)


In a direct way with obvious precedents?  No.  In the way where there's public outcry over a foreign court apparently re-trying an American over and over until they get the verdict they want, to the point where approving an extradition request becomes PR suicide?  You bet your ass it applies.

The question was never over whether or not double jeopardy protections apply legally.  The question was whether or not they would have applied if the Italian court system used American rules.  Answer: yes they would.  That's why people are pissed off, and why there's a very real chance extradition will never happen even if the conviction stands.
 
2014-01-31 12:49:57 PM  

CleanAndPure: BgJonson79: Por que tan serioso: mjbok: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Her guilty verdict was over-turned and she was acquitted.  You are wrong.  http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox/

Nope. I afraid we have reached the point in a fark thread where i can continue to explain it but I will never be able to understand it for you.

So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

Translation mishap. America doesn't really have an equivalent term.

Her "acquittal" was more of a mistrial verdict. Which even in America would lead to a retrial. It wasn't actually a not guilty verdict but it did give her the right to travel, etc.

It feels like double jeopardy... but there again the OJ case seems very similar to me. Would be clear cut if police didn't bumble around and give defense an out. Found not guilty but then found guilty in a civic trial?

After reading news in three different languages from different countries... yes I think she is guilty... almost certainly of murder... but if not, she's covering something up and I think even her defenders would agree she is a compulsive liar...

I do think the prosecution are complete f-ups and the trial has been an utter disaster.

If she were tried in this country she would probably be able to claim temporary insanity and get out in a month.


Your understanding of the American judicial system is lacking.
 
Ant
2014-01-31 12:50:51 PM  

walktoanarcade: As I was reading what you wrote, I was remembering that I react oddly sometimes, like if someone accuses me of something ridiculous, I tend to laugh even if it's serious(not all the time). It can be a problem, but I stifle it as much as I can(like if I'm pulled over for speeding).

It has caused people to "know" I was lying, but then they find out I was telling the truth and they're like, "then why were you acting silly/funny?", and I tell them, "that's the way I am."


Yet you still think she's guilty based on something as subjective as her behavior during interviews?


Your description above matches my own behavior. I hope I never end up in front of an Italian court, accused of a murder I didn't commit. I'd get life in prison based on my supposed inappropriate emotional responses.
 
2014-01-31 12:51:23 PM  
Its the same when our spies get caught overseas.

"Poor tourists charged with spying in Bumfuqistan"... of course we don't have any spies in any pariah nations... they must all be innocent tourists accused of spying. We're America, we would never spy on anyone.

If one of our citizens get arrested overseas they must be innocent and wrongly framed.

When was the last time an American got arrested overseas that the media didn't paint as a saint?
 
2014-01-31 12:56:09 PM  
CleanAndPure:
After reading news in three different languages from different countries... yes I think she is guilty... almost certainly of murder... but if not, she's covering something up and I think even her defenders would agree she is a compulsive liar...

I'd like to hear your reasoning for this conclusion.
 
2014-01-31 12:58:59 PM  

CleanAndPure: Her "acquittal" was more of a mistrial verdict. Which even in America would lead to a retrial. It wasn't actually a not guilty verdict but it did give her the right to travel, etc.


Even though the court's statement of reason explicitly cited the fact that the prosecutions case didn't come even remotely close to proving her involvement?  For me, that's really the damning part.  If a US court says "sorry prosecution, you've failed to make your case" then 99% of the time that means acquittal and double jeopardy protection.  In the American court system, the DA doesn't get a do-over.  Or isn't supposed to at any rate.

CleanAndPure: After reading news in three different languages from different countries... yes I think she is guilty... almost certainly of murder... but if not, she's covering something up and I think even her defenders would agree she is a compulsive liar...


I'm curious what has you convinced she was involved with the murder.  Last time I surveyed the case they found zero physical evidence that she was at the murder scene during the murder, and the statements saying she was were limited to the confessed murderer who left the bloody handprint, a homeless person who seemed to provide a lot of very convenient exactly-what-we-needed testimony for the local police in other cases, and the statement from Knox herself that she claims was made under duress during an interrogation session where the tapes went missing.

Seriously, honest question.  Lay it out for me.
 
2014-01-31 12:59:30 PM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: BgJonson79:
So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

It's more like when someone in the U.S. gets a conviction turned over on appeal. It's not an acquittal and the case can be retried if the prosecution decides to do so. Double Jeopardy is not attached. Which is why people need to stop talking about double jeopardy being a reason she won't be extradited. It just doesn't apply.


I'm one of those people that's been spouting off about that.
What the hell happened then, if she wasn't acquitted?  She was released, and allowed to leave the country.  If there was any chance that they may be re-tried, why was that allowed to happen?

Seriously...  Someone needs to explain this better.
 
2014-01-31 01:00:49 PM  

walktoanarcade: Thank you; you made my day. :)  I mean it, I'll buy you a friggen steak dinner for saying that if I ever get the chance.  I appreciate good readers!


I'm really happy to hear that!  It's my birthday tomorrow so it's good that something I said made someone happy.

As for the steak, find someone in your life you may have slighted (intentionally/unintentionally) and invite them out for a beer.  Make amends.

Or, just help a homeless guy/girl get a warm meal/new blanket/whatever this weekend.

That'll be even better than buying me a steak. :o)
 
2014-01-31 01:01:45 PM  

CleanAndPure: Its the same when our spies get caught overseas.

"Poor tourists charged with spying in Bumfuqistan"... of course we don't have any spies in any pariah nations... they must all be innocent tourists accused of spying. We're America, we would never spy on anyone.

If one of our citizens get arrested overseas they must be innocent and wrongly framed.

When was the last time an American got arrested overseas that the media didn't paint as a saint?


Examples?

I don't even remember reports about Robert Levinson being sympathetic before it came out he was working with/for the CIA. Michael Fay's coverage was not sympathetic. There is that guy in Cuba, but he's hardly covered at all.

I guess articles about Korean-Americans arrested in North Korea are generally sympathetic, but it is unlikely they were actually doing anything worthy of scorn.
 
2014-01-31 01:03:03 PM  

BigNumber12: Eirik: I'm curious what the Italian perspective is on this. I live in the Seattle media market, so I have no illusions that I'm not getting a slanted view of things. Does the Italian public think this is all legit?

Most of Europe seems to have been utterly convinced by their media that this is legit. They're completely sold on her guilt.


I'm wondering what it says about a culture where "Satanic sex-game gone wrong" is a legitimate thing to admit to believing in.  I get it that the US had its Satanic ritual abuse moral panic in the 80s and I understand what it represented, and that we're on the waning side of our sex offender panic so I'm not saying they're bad people.

They're just caught in a moral panic, but within that moral panic is a fear about their own society.  Reading the Sky News article the common thread is that all Americans are violent and also the NSA and so on.  I suspect there's a concern about being their culture being dominated by a US based monoculture.  It's a legitimate concern and it's very Italian.
 
2014-01-31 01:03:11 PM  

Lydia_C: raerae1980: Deathfrogg: raatz01: Poor bastard.

Thats just it. The Italians were hell bent on railroading these kids because they couldn't be bothered to do anything in the way of a real investigation, not to mention the Prosecutor openly stating that he couldn't prosecute an actual Italian national as it would make him look bad. The original prosecutor was so utterly convinced of his "theory" (which was a bizarre scenario based in his belief of how Americans really were from various b-grade movies and such) that he was almost eager to dismiss the actual physical evidence, and actually tried to have it suppressed in court while replacing it with some seriously outrageous conjecture on his part. He was also trying to redeem himself and regain credibility, as he had already used the scenario he prosecuted Knox with in several other trials and was under some serious scrutiny over malfeasances related to that. His entire case was circumstantial and required the physical evidence to be dismissed out of hand to believe.

The actual killer only got 7 years. They know he did it, and they went ahead and prosecuted the American anyway, because there are a lot of Italian folks who will always presume that Americans are really a bunch of Satan worshipers and homicidal sex maniacs. It made for good headlines, and the Prosecutor regained his credibility.

Tell me you've read Monster of Florence by Douglas Preston!!   If you haven't, you need to.


That was a very disturbing book, and not because of the murders it described. The US State Department should warn American travelers to Italy about avoiding even the semblance of a connection to criminal activity while there, because they'll never get a fair shake.


And it is the same judge.
 
2014-01-31 01:08:37 PM  
From the comments:

There is a consensus that if Solleceto & Knox were responsible for the death of Meredith Kercher, it was because of a drug induced psychosis. Therefore their best defense would have been to admit manslaughter rather than murder. I don't know if the Italian Judicial system was able to offer such a lesser charge or if they or their lawyers took a gamble on gaining an acquittal. It is a tragedy for them that they might serve up to 25/28 years in jail rather than half that for manslaughter. Of course this would not apply if it was a premeditated murder.

Apparently, it is the 1960s in England and Joe Friday is on the case of hippies taking goofballs and jumping out of windows because they think they can fly.
 
2014-01-31 01:08:41 PM  

WhoGAS: walktoanarcade:I don't think you're a troll at all.  People just don't like different opinions and hate it when people aren't bothered when they call them a troll.

As a viewer, when someone immediately calls troll, I tend to re-read their posts carefully.  Nothing you have done seems trollish at all.  It just seems your opinion is that she's guilty, regardless whether she's hot or not.

Nothing wrong with that and anyone who calls you a troll should really stop being so closed-minded.

I don't know if she did it or not, but she should just go away and hide for a bit.  Name change, move somewhere else, I dunno.


There is an entire extra thread on this subject, and nothing immediate about my personal assumption that this one is a troll, and it has nothing to do with differences in opinion.  But when you explicitly aren't willing to address how your opinion does not coincide with physical evidence, and when called on it you turn around with the "you're defending her because she's hot and want to bang her and that's it", then at that point I'm rather forced to assume trolling.  Or simple foolishness.

But I see nothing close-minded in the idea that you are not, in fact, entitled to your opinion.  Opinions can be, and often are, wrong.  By wrong, they conflict with observable reality.  If you are unwilling to address the conflict, or offer up a reasonable explanation, I see no reason to respect your opinion.  (this is a general "you").

I agree though that she should just go away and hide.  At least stop giving interviews.
 
2014-01-31 01:11:16 PM  

CleanAndPure: BgJonson79: Por que tan serioso: mjbok: Por que tan serioso: Except that in her case there was never a not guilty verdict. Sooooooo....not double jeopardy. At all. Under American law. Or Italian.

Her guilty verdict was over-turned and she was acquitted.  You are wrong.  http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox/

Nope. I afraid we have reached the point in a fark thread where i can continue to explain it but I will never be able to understand it for you.

So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

Translation mishap. America doesn't really have an equivalent term.

Her "acquittal" was more of a mistrial verdict. Which even in America would lead to a retrial. It wasn't actually a not guilty verdict but it did give her the right to travel, etc.

It feels like double jeopardy... but there again the OJ case seems very similar to me. Would be clear cut if police didn't bumble around and give defense an out. Found not guilty but then found guilty in a civic trial?

After reading news in three different languages from different countries... yes I think she is guilty... almost certainly of murder... but if not, she's covering something up and I think even her defenders would agree she is a compulsive liar...

I do think the prosecution are complete f-ups and the trial has been an utter disaster.

If she were tried in this country she would probably be able to claim temporary insanity and get out in a month.


I read some other stuff and stand corrected.  Thanks!
 
2014-01-31 01:11:26 PM  

Rapmaster2000: From the comments:

There is a consensus that if Solleceto & Knox were responsible for the death of Meredith Kercher, it was because of a drug induced psychosis. Therefore their best defense would have been to admit manslaughter rather than murder. I don't know if the Italian Judicial system was able to offer such a lesser charge or if they or their lawyers took a gamble on gaining an acquittal. It is a tragedy for them that they might serve up to 25/28 years in jail rather than half that for manslaughter. Of course this would not apply if it was a premeditated murder.

Apparently, it is the 1960s in England and Joe Friday is on the case of hippies taking goofballs and jumping out of windows because they think they can fly.


Do not besmirch the integrity of the English tabloid industry. They give us Page 3.
 
2014-01-31 01:11:53 PM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: BgJonson79:
So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

It's more like when someone in the U.S. gets a conviction turned over on appeal. It's not an acquittal and the case can be retried if the prosecution decides to do so. Double Jeopardy is not attached. Which is why people need to stop talking about double jeopardy being a reason she won't be extradited. It just doesn't apply.


I read some other stuff and stand corrected.  No, trials in absentia, on the other hand...
 
2014-01-31 01:12:50 PM  

Por que tan serioso: BgJonson79: Por que tan serioso: BgJonson79: Por que tan serioso: the8re: It's simple: if other countries won't extradite to the US because capital punishment, then we should refuse to export Amanda because FARK YOU THAT'S WHY! double jeopardy.

Except that, as has been stated many many many times, it is not double jeopardy. At all. According to American law. Or Italian.

Source?

In the article posted to the main page yesterday it was discussed near the end.

So I have to go digging for your proof?  Sounds like the Italian legal system.

Ha!! Im on a mobile. Google "alan dershowitz amanda knox".


I did, and stand corrected!
 
2014-01-31 01:16:02 PM  

BgJonson79: Some Bass Playing Guy: BgJonson79:
So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

It's more like when someone in the U.S. gets a conviction turned over on appeal. It's not an acquittal and the case can be retried if the prosecution decides to do so. Double Jeopardy is not attached. Which is why people need to stop talking about double jeopardy being a reason she won't be extradited. It just doesn't apply.

I read some other stuff and stand corrected.  No, trials in absentia, on the other hand...


His blanket comments about the "re-triability" of convictions overturned on appeal is incorrect. Convictions overturned on procedural grounds may be retried, those overturned on the grounds of insufficient evidence may not be retried.
 
2014-01-31 01:16:26 PM  
Pretty good summary of the facts and Knox and Sollecito's inconsistent statements about their whereabouts on the night of the murder here: http://abcnews.go.com/International/amanda-knox-found-guilty-court-so r t/story?id=22306461

My guess:  Amanda Knox wasn't herself responsible for the murder of Meredith Kercher, but did/knew more than she's letting on, and her clumsy attempts to minimize her (probably after-the-fact) involvement are what got her in trouble with the Italians, who then overreacted and tried to pin the murder itself on her despite a lack of any physical evidence.

i.e., there's plenty of blame for this mess on both sides, and everybody involved is kind of crappy.  (Meredith Kercher excepted, of course.)
 
2014-01-31 01:18:25 PM  

durbnpoisn: Some Bass Playing Guy: BgJonson79:
So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

It's more like when someone in the U.S. gets a conviction turned over on appeal. It's not an acquittal and the case can be retried if the prosecution decides to do so. Double Jeopardy is not attached. Which is why people need to stop talking about double jeopardy being a reason she won't be extradited. It just doesn't apply.

I'm one of those people that's been spouting off about that.
What the hell happened then, if she wasn't acquitted?  She was released, and allowed to leave the country.  If there was any chance that they may be re-tried, why was that allowed to happen?

Seriously...  Someone needs to explain this better.


I can explain. In the U.S. an acquittal at trial cannot be appealed and triggers double jeopardy. An appeals court can never hold a trial. The appeals court can overturn convictions which then results in a new trial. The process in Italy is different. The appeals court can and often does actually re-try the whole case and make a finding as to guilt or innocence. The appeals court in Italy did that and actually acquitted Knox and Solecito. It did not order a new trial. That rulinh, however, was always subject to an appeal to the Supreme Court which could have reinstated guilt, let the acquittal stand, or order a new trial. It chose the last option.

This creates a murky situation because what the Italian Appeals court did is impossible under U.S. law. Some experts argue that any acquittal by a fact finder should trigger double jeopardy. Others say that only a final judgement of acquittal would trigger it.

There's another question too. The extradition treaty with Italy doesn't require Italian court to follow all of the U.S. procedural rules. Different countries have differing rules and we still extradite to one another (sometimes). So even if double jeopardy applies, it's a questionable grounds for refusing extradition.

The treaty does, however, require Italy to provide the U.S. with a reasonable basis to believe the fugitive is guilty. The U.S. could refuse on that basis. Even if the state department agrees to extradite, Amanda could fight it in a U.S. court and argue under habeas corpus that her right to a fair trial was denied. A U.S. court might agree.
 
2014-01-31 01:20:16 PM  

mudesi: Amanda Knox needs to stop doing interviews. Seriously.

They have no evidence and botched the whole investigation and the prosecutor is a lunatic and the entire justice system over there is a joke.

Yet when Amanda talks, I swear I think she's guilty. Anybody see her this morning on GMA? She was crying, but no tears were coming out of her eyes. There's just something...off...about her.


I have the same impression of her.  I don't like her.  She comes off like a lying biatch.  But at the end of the day there's no physical evidence trying her to the murder.  The most compelling thing anyone can cite about her that is at all damning is "well, look at her, she just seems guilty".  If she had just STFU and let her lawyer do all the talking and never spoke to the press or police or testified, the one thing the press and prosecution had working for them (her personality) would have gone away, and her and Sollecito would be well passed it already.

That's the difference between our two legal systems though,  In our system, you don't have to prove you're innocent, so "I feel like she's guilty" is not good enough without real hard evidence.  In Italy, if people decide you're guilty, and you can't prove it, it doesn't matter that there's no evidence, you're guilty.  It's like the Spanish Inquisition never left.
 
2014-01-31 01:21:03 PM  

jonas opines: There is an entire extra thread on this subject, and nothing immediate about my personal assumption that this one is a troll, and it has nothing to do with differences in opinion.


I completely understand your position.  As one who has not been following all the threads, I usually assume that the person's opinions are less informed than others.  It's quite possible that a person thinks they know the whole story but missed some information you or the others may have garnished.

That's the closed-minded part.  If we simply call people trolls because something may be obvious to us, then that detracts from educating someone who is innocently naive.

Not saying that's the case here, but that's why I don't usually call people trolls in situations like this.

Besides his comment was a jab, I believe, because of arelated conversation further up the thread.  I think it was a response to a perceived "white-knighting" of the lady by another poster and shouldn't be taken as the sum of the argument.  That was just a quip.
 
2014-01-31 01:21:16 PM  

jaytkay: The UK press has really whipped up a hate fest for Knox.

Is that just the tabloids or do the real new outlets agree?


That's not a big surprise. The victim's father is a tabloid journalist.
 
2014-01-31 01:23:08 PM  

spiderpaz: mudesi: Amanda Knox needs to stop doing interviews. Seriously.

They have no evidence and botched the whole investigation and the prosecutor is a lunatic and the entire justice system over there is a joke.

Yet when Amanda talks, I swear I think she's guilty. Anybody see her this morning on GMA? She was crying, but no tears were coming out of her eyes. There's just something...off...about her.

I have the same impression of her.  I don't like her.  She comes off like a lying biatch.  But at the end of the day there's no physical evidence trying her to the murder.  The most compelling thing anyone can cite about her that is at all damning is "well, look at her, she just seems guilty".  If she had just STFU and let her lawyer do all the talking and never spoke to the press or police or testified, the one thing the press and prosecution had working for them (her personality) would have gone away, and her and Sollecito would be well passed it already.

That's the difference between our two legal systems though,  In our system, you don't have to prove you're innocent, so "I feel like she's guilty" is not good enough without real hard evidence.  In Italy, if people decide you're guilty, and you can't prove it, it doesn't matter that there's no evidence, you're guilty.  It's like the Spanish Inquisition never left.


People react to stressful situations very differently. Maybe she did kill her roommate, but her not crying tears is not proof of anything. It just shows a lack of empathy/understanding from the person making the judgment.
 
2014-01-31 01:24:18 PM  

Moopy Mac: BgJonson79: Some Bass Playing Guy: BgJonson79:
So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

It's more like when someone in the U.S. gets a conviction turned over on appeal. It's not an acquittal and the case can be retried if the prosecution decides to do so. Double Jeopardy is not attached. Which is why people need to stop talking about double jeopardy being a reason she won't be extradited. It just doesn't apply.

I read some other stuff and stand corrected.  No, trials in absentia, on the other hand...

His blanket comments about the "re-triability" of convictions overturned on appeal is incorrect. Convictions overturned on procedural grounds may be retried, those overturned on the grounds of insufficient evidence may not be retried.


I thought the gov't only got one and done, so I was way off anyway.
 
2014-01-31 01:24:34 PM  

WhoGAS: jonas opines: There is an entire extra thread on this subject, and nothing immediate about my personal assumption that this one is a troll, and it has nothing to do with differences in opinion.

I completely understand your position.  As one who has not been following all the threads, I usually assume that the person's opinions are less informed than others.  It's quite possible that a person thinks they know the whole story but missed some information you or the others may have garnished.

That's the closed-minded part.  If we simply call people trolls because something may be obvious to us, then that detracts from educating someone who is innocently naive.

Not saying that's the case here, but that's why I don't usually call people trolls in situations like this.

Besides his comment was a jab, I believe, because of arelated conversation further up the thread.  I think it was a response to a perceived "white-knighting" of the lady by another poster and shouldn't be taken as the sum of the argument.  That was just a quip.


But making declarative statements and refusing to provide argument/evidence when challenged is his/her MO the entire thread. That should be mocked.
 
2014-01-31 01:24:54 PM  

walktoanarcade: It's a message board, folks, not everything is a troll, most are messages, and I sent the correct message that a "political crisis" out of this is laughable.

I do realize to some of you think hearing a different opinion is a troll or an attack.


It's not that you have a different opinion, it's that you say things like murderous poonany, immediately attempt to hijack the conversation onto some other unrelated  topic, and your assertion that this won't be a political incident is backed by "nuh-uh lol".

The alternative to you being a troll alt is that you are a moron.  People calling you a troll are trying to actually give you the benefit of the doubt.
 
2014-01-31 01:26:41 PM  

BgJonson79: Moopy Mac: BgJonson79: Some Bass Playing Guy: BgJonson79:
So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

It's more like when someone in the U.S. gets a conviction turned over on appeal. It's not an acquittal and the case can be retried if the prosecution decides to do so. Double Jeopardy is not attached. Which is why people need to stop talking about double jeopardy being a reason she won't be extradited. It just doesn't apply.

I read some other stuff and stand corrected.  No, trials in absentia, on the other hand...

His blanket comments about the "re-triability" of convictions overturned on appeal is incorrect. Convictions overturned on procedural grounds may be retried, those overturned on the grounds of insufficient evidence may not be retried.

I thought the gov't only got one and done, so I was way off anyway.


Basically if the State messed up in a "technical" (often Constitutionally-protected) aspect of the prosecution, they can get another chance to follow the rules the second time around. If the conviction was made with insufficient evidence (was is the opposite of jury nullification?), then they don't get another chance.
 
2014-01-31 01:28:09 PM  

spiderpaz: In Italy....  It's like the Spanish Inquisition never left.


!?!
 
2014-01-31 01:28:26 PM  

walktoanarcade: Heh, so much for her defense that she was too stoned to notice anything(which is a lame excuse anyway).


That wasn't her defense.
 
2014-01-31 01:33:35 PM  

BSABSVR: walktoanarcade: It's a message board, folks, not everything is a troll, most are messages, and I sent the correct message that a "political crisis" out of this is laughable.

I do realize to some of you think hearing a different opinion is a troll or an attack.

It's not that you have a different opinion, it's that you say things like murderous poonany, immediately attempt to hijack the conversation onto some other unrelated  topic, and your assertion that this won't be a political incident is backed by "nuh-uh lol".

The alternative to you being a troll alt is that you are a moron.  People calling you a troll are trying to actually give you the benefit of the doubt.


There are people who unintentionally troll.  They primarily do this by never admitting fault on any point, having their own facts, and not rebutting an entire argument but attacking a particular statement within that argument.  It's not purposeful trolling, but it works like trolling.
 
2014-01-31 01:33:51 PM  

Moopy Mac: BgJonson79: Moopy Mac: BgJonson79: Some Bass Playing Guy: BgJonson79:
So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

It's more like when someone in the U.S. gets a conviction turned over on appeal. It's not an acquittal and the case can be retried if the prosecution decides to do so. Double Jeopardy is not attached. Which is why people need to stop talking about double jeopardy being a reason she won't be extradited. It just doesn't apply.

I read some other stuff and stand corrected.  No, trials in absentia, on the other hand...

His blanket comments about the "re-triability" of convictions overturned on appeal is incorrect. Convictions overturned on procedural grounds may be retried, those overturned on the grounds of insufficient evidence may not be retried.

I thought the gov't only got one and done, so I was way off anyway.

Basically if the State messed up in a "technical" (often Constitutionally-protected) aspect of the prosecution, they can get another chance to follow the rules the second time around. If the conviction was made with insufficient evidence (was is the opposite of jury nullification?), then they don't get another chance.


I think my preference would be the state gets held to a higher standard.  If they mess up, that's it.  You get ONE shot.  I bet I'm in the minority.
 
2014-01-31 01:34:27 PM  

BSABSVR: walktoanarcade: Heh, so much for her defense that she was too stoned to notice anything(which is a lame excuse anyway).

That wasn't her defense.


This is an example of "having their own facts."  It might not be intentional trolling, but it works like trolling.
 
2014-01-31 01:35:46 PM  

walktoanarcade: SurelyShirley: SlothB77: He had apparently crossed over the border into Austria late last night - but returned to Italy of his own accord, Sky's Nick Pisa said.


dumbass.

I don't know, 28 years in prison vs living in Austria? Tough choice.

Seriously. Austria makes those that wish to divorce wait six months.


So does California
 
2014-01-31 01:41:39 PM  
Being rude, socially gauche and behaving inappropriately does not make her a murderer. It makes her a fairly typical university student by UK standards, and I suspect by US standards too.
The prosecutor and the cops who terrorised that confession out of her need to be kicked repeatedly in the bollocks by David Beckham wearing steel toecap boots. With a long run up.

/Kercher's Dad is a tabloid journalist. Food for thought...
 
2014-01-31 02:08:45 PM  

WhoGAS: Nothing you have done seems trollish at all. It just seems your opinion is that she's guilty, regardless whether she's hot or not.


Really?  How about these?

walktoanarcade: Someone REALLY wants to bang her. ;)

Anyway, there's no way she didn't know of or participate in the murder, and if the accused were a male or ugly woman, no one would care.

If the killing took place inside an epically huge mansion, then maybe I would believe her bullshiat story.


walktoanarcade: Her story is unbelievable. She either helped or watched, albeit stoney-eyed.


walktoanarcade: You're annoyed because not only do I have the gall to disagree, but I refuse to make myself a clone of you or your cronies.


Having a different opinion is fine, but the whole "if you don't agree with me, it's because you want to bang her" screams troll.  Plus they put up absolutely no reason for their opinion.
 
2014-01-31 02:29:31 PM  

Kentucky Fried Children: If Knox was a smart girl, the minute she was released after the first jail stint she would've moved to a country with no extradition treaty with the Italians. But she didn't, and chose to stay in the US where we have a strong bilateral history of extradition with them.

Stupid.


She's not getting extradited and she knows it.
 
2014-01-31 02:42:55 PM  

Gothnet: spiderpaz: In Italy....  It's like the Spanish Inquisition never left.

!?!


Wow, you weren't expecting that.
 
2014-01-31 02:52:33 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Wow, you weren't expecting that.


Nobody ever does.
 
2014-01-31 02:57:44 PM  

MagicianNamedGob: durbnpoisn: Some Bass Playing Guy: BgJonson79:
So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

It's more like when someone in the U.S. gets a conviction turned over on appeal. It's not an acquittal and the case can be retried if the prosecution decides to do so. Double Jeopardy is not attached. Which is why people need to stop talking about double jeopardy being a reason she won't be extradited. It just doesn't apply.

I'm one of those people that's been spouting off about that.
What the hell happened then, if she wasn't acquitted?  She was released, and allowed to leave the country.  If there was any chance that they may be re-tried, why was that allowed to happen?

Seriously...  Someone needs to explain this better.

I can explain. In the U.S. an acquittal at trial cannot be appealed and triggers double jeopardy. An appeals court can never hold a trial. The appeals court can overturn convictions which then results in a new trial. The process in Italy is different. The appeals court can and often does actually re-try the whole case and make a finding as to guilt or innocence. The appeals court in Italy did that and actually acquitted Knox and Solecito. It did not order a new trial. That rulinh, however, was always subject to an appeal to the Supreme Court which could have reinstated guilt, let the acquittal stand, or order a new trial. It chose the last option.

This creates a murky situation because what the Italian Appeals court did is impossible under U.S. law. Some experts argue that any acquittal by a fact finder should trigger double jeopardy. Others say that only a final judgement of acquittal would trigger it.

There's another question too. The extradition treaty with Italy doesn't require Italian court to follow all of the U.S. procedural rules. Different countries have differing rules and we still extradite to one another (sometimes). So even if double jeopardy applies, it's a questionable grounds for refusing extradition.

The t ...


And that right there, is what I object to.
If it's a violation of our laws, why would we feel compelled to follow theirs.
To use an extreme example, if someone in Iran were to say we are harboring a woman guilty of adultery (punishable by death), and their laws say it is so...  Well, ours don't.  So there is really no reason to even consider extradition.
 
2014-01-31 03:18:07 PM  
Well, throw another shrimp on the barbie then.
 
2014-01-31 03:25:35 PM  
She didn't do it. I don't know who bought those Italian juries but if you look at the facts there are more holes in it than a swiss cheese.
Even if you honestly 'think' she did it due to some bias reasons, it's still not anywhere close to what one would considered to be something that is beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
2014-01-31 03:34:56 PM  

Rapmaster2000: They're just caught in a moral panic, but within that moral panic is a fear about their own society. Reading the Sky News article the common thread is that all Americans are violent and also the NSA and so on. I suspect there's a concern about being their culture being dominated by a US based monoculture


That's exactly the lens I view these stories through. It reminds me of the Zimmerman case, but with nationalist (rather than entertainment- or racially-oriented) themes being played up. This seems to be an exercise in rallying nationalist sentiment, and deflecting from domestic issues, by the creation of an us-vs-them mentality, by creating an external villain for everyone to focus on.
 
2014-01-31 03:49:19 PM  

durbnpoisn: MagicianNamedGob: durbnpoisn: Some Bass Playing Guy: BgJonson79:
So even though the article said she was acquitted, she wasn't acquitted?

It's more like when someone in the U.S. gets a conviction turned over on appeal. It's not an acquittal and the case can be retried if the prosecution decides to do so. Double Jeopardy is not attached. Which is why people need to stop talking about double jeopardy being a reason she won't be extradited. It just doesn't apply.

I'm one of those people that's been spouting off about that.
What the hell happened then, if she wasn't acquitted?  She was released, and allowed to leave the country.  If there was any chance that they may be re-tried, why was that allowed to happen?

Seriously...  Someone needs to explain this better.

I can explain. In the U.S. an acquittal at trial cannot be appealed and triggers double jeopardy. An appeals court can never hold a trial. The appeals court can overturn convictions which then results in a new trial. The process in Italy is different. The appeals court can and often does actually re-try the whole case and make a finding as to guilt or innocence. The appeals court in Italy did that and actually acquitted Knox and Solecito. It did not order a new trial. That rulinh, however, was always subject to an appeal to the Supreme Court which could have reinstated guilt, let the acquittal stand, or order a new trial. It chose the last option.

This creates a murky situation because what the Italian Appeals court did is impossible under U.S. law. Some experts argue that any acquittal by a fact finder should trigger double jeopardy. Others say that only a final judgement of acquittal would trigger it.

There's another question too. The extradition treaty with Italy doesn't require Italian court to follow all of the U.S. procedural rules. Different countries have differing rules and we still extradite to one another (sometimes). So even if double jeopardy applies, it's a questionable grounds for refusing e ...


For the record, I  do think the U.S. will refuse extradition, and I think that would be the right decision. They  may invoke double jeopardy in so doing, but I rather doubt it. They'll find another reason, like insufficiency of evidence.

We would never have an extradition treaty that required us to deport people to be executed for adultery. In fact, we frequently grant asylum to non-citizens to save them from such injustice. We've decided that the Italian judicial system is generally trustworthy enough to cooperate with, partially because we want to nab a lot of heroin dealers who move through Sicily. But in this case, I fully expect the State Department response to be  vaffanculo.
 
2014-01-31 04:30:22 PM  

forgotmydamnusername: HotWingConspiracy: WinoRhino: HotWingConspiracy: WinoRhino: HotWingConspiracy: Extraditing her will cause a political crisis.

How do you figure?

Do you really think people here are going to be ok with shipping her off to an Italian prison after their bizarre 3rd world justice system decided they were going to convict on a do over?

Do you actually think she's going anywhere? They will request extradition. The USA, due to our standards of justice (protection from double jeopardy) will simply deny the request. It's actually a perfectly acceptable thing to do according to the existing treaties that are in place. The end.

A rather experienced lawyer disagrees with your take.

Dershowitz is good, I'd probably want to hire him if I had the money and got in serious legal trouble. However, like anyone else, he's been known to be wrong. There's also the reality that the US simply flouts laws it finds inconvenient. Hence neither Henry Kissinger nor Dick Cheney will ever be arraigned at the Hague.


I have a quick note for the non-lawyers. There's almost certainly not a clear answer to the extradition question. Italian and American law are sufficiently different to leave this open to interpretation. That means that the administration will pick its answer with respect to extradition (based on double jeopardy, or some other argument a clever lawyer can come up with that we haven't yet heard about yet). If Italy really wants her back and has something of sufficient value to offer, the administration will decide that extradition applies. If Italy doesn't care enough, or can't come up with something valuable enough to give us, or if the domestic outcry about extraditing her is too great, the administration will decide not to extradite her and come up with a legal argument to suit that decision. Whether she gets extradited or not will have nothing to do with her guilt or innocence, or any certain answer with respect to the applicability of the extradition treaty.

Dershowitz stays relevant and in the paper by making clear statements which a layman can understand (the paper wouldn't publish "eh, it could go either way"). Based on reputation, he's a fine lawyer. If you paid him to craft an argument against extradition, he would likely come up with one that sounds just as certain as his argument for it.
 
2014-01-31 06:44:48 PM  

BSABSVR: walktoanarcade: It's a message board, folks, not everything is a troll, most are messages, and I sent the correct message that a "political crisis" out of this is laughable.

I do realize to some of you think hearing a different opinion is a troll or an attack.

It's not that you have a different opinion, it's that you say things like murderous poonany, immediately attempt to hijack the conversation onto some other unrelated  topic, and your assertion that this won't be a political incident is backed by "nuh-uh lol".

The alternative to you being a troll alt is that you are a moron.  People calling you a troll are trying to actually give you the benefit of the doubt.


Some of you have a serious problem with the reality that others have differing opinions and styles, huh? Life must be rougher for you than I by far, and for that I am so sorry for you.

Get better soon.
 
2014-01-31 06:49:28 PM  

walktoanarcade: Some of you have a serious problem with the reality that others have differing opinions and styles, huh? Life must be rougher for you than I by far, and for that I am so sorry for you.


You dismissed people with a differing opinion.

//Goose, gander and all that.
 
2014-01-31 06:55:07 PM  

mjbok: walktoanarcade: Some of you have a serious problem with the reality that others have differing opinions and styles, huh? Life must be rougher for you than I by far, and for that I am so sorry for you.

You dismissed people with a differing opinion.

//Goose, gander and all that.


lol OK, OK, I'll consider rehiring them, but they have to go through human resources again.
 
2014-01-31 09:20:12 PM  

BigNumber12: This seems to be an exercise in rallying nationalist sentiment, and deflecting from domestic issues, by the creation of an us-vs-them mentality, by creating an external villain for everyone to focus on.


Yup.

The sad thing, for me, is Americans make such good (and often willing) villains.
 
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