Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Time)   Snake bite causes $89,000 hospital bill. It would have been less but the snake demanded a private room   (healthland.time.com) divider line 157
    More: Asinine, North Carolina, hospitals, uncompensated care, medical bills, Mooresville, emergency rooms  
•       •       •

6325 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jan 2014 at 8:26 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



157 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-01-31 10:50:59 AM  

zimbomba63: DubtodaIll: orclover: DubtodaIll: orclover: [singlepayernow.net image 240x240]
Single Payer, its what Jesus would want you farking idiots.

Jesus would have doctors treat the sick for the glory of God not for the money.

Baby steps.

Hey remember when the Hippocratic oath actually meant something?  I hear they dont even do that any more.   Health Care Professional should be a calling, not a get rich job.  Same with Cops and Firemen.  These three groups should be our super hero's, a title that commands respect just for their sacrifice should be Doctor.  Instead its a guy that hands out scrips for boner pills and painkillers.  Legal drug dealers who you pray doesn't accidentally kill you during surgery.

If not for all the porn I would really really hate this century.

Hmm, you're right.  We should construct a system that programs people to be selfless and act for the betterment of society and not for their own selfish gains.  If only there was a long standing system that could be in place to help teach people to do that.

They just have to watch the ants and the bees.  Work until you die.  There is no rest, no pleasure, nothing, because individually you count as nothing.  You live only to serve the hive.  There's your "program".


I was thinking more about religion, which ends up giving you happiness just for serving it.  But yeah, lets look at bees instead.
 
2014-01-31 10:55:38 AM  

Fubini: zimbomba63: What you say makes a lot of sense, you know, if anybody could a medical degree from a coupon off a box of breakfast cereal.  But, if I had to do the whole medical school grind, I think I'd want a little compensation for the effort.  The idea of doing all that, and ending up just a smidge better off, than a guy who may not have graduated from high school and spends the day sweeping up on the loading dock, would be kind of stupid.  But, hey, that's just me.

No one is saying they shouldn't be better off, but the question is just how much better off they should be. According to the BLS the MEDIAN "physicians and surgeons" wage is $187,000 per year.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.htm

The median wage in the US is sitting at something like $34K. The median wage for college educated people is something like $55K. The median wage for people with doctorates (not doctors) is about $84K per year.

Is the median doctor really worth 2.2 times more than the median doctorate?

http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm

What about engineers? Chemical engineers make a median wage of $90K. Computer scientists and engineers make a median wage of $84K. Mechanical engineers make a median wage of $78K.

Is the median doctor really worth twice as much as the median engineer?

http://www.mtu.edu/engineering/outreach/welcome/salary/

No one is saying that doctors shouldn't be compensated well for what they do, but how much do they really need? They make exorbitant amounts more than average college educated people, even the traditionally high-paying occupations. They make way more than average people with doctoral degrees, who usually have about as much time invested in their education as a doctor would (median time to graduation is typically another 4.5-5.5 years depending on field of study).


Is that $187,000, before or after malpractice insurance?  The story, there's always more to it.
 
2014-01-31 11:07:32 AM  

Russad: zimbomba63:What you say makes a lot of sense, you know, if anybody could a medical degree from a coupon off a box of breakfast cereal.  But, if I had to do the whole medical school grind, I think I'd want a little compensation for the effort.  The idea of doing all that, and ending up just a smidge better off, than a guy who may not have graduated from high school and spends the day sweeping up on the loading dock, would be kind of stupid.  But, hey, that's just me.

This would be a better argument if medical schools didn't gate the number of applicants, artificially restricting the number of people available to be doctors.


You're right, throw open the gates.  "Hey, you!  You want to be a doctor?  "Huh, ah...OK!"  "Well, come on in, this won't take long."
 
2014-01-31 11:09:34 AM  
Our costs for providing uncompensated care are partially covered by higher bills for other patients."

It's a good thing that, under Obamacare, ALL care provided is now compensated. But please, go right ahead and continue farking that chicken.
 
2014-01-31 11:11:22 AM  

WorkingInParadise: [Tonto] "Kemosabe, doctor say, you going to die."


Took me a minute to remember the first part of that joke, laff...
 
2014-01-31 11:13:52 AM  

WorkingInParadise: [Tonto] "Kemosabe, doctor say, you going to die."


+5
 
2014-01-31 11:14:08 AM  
You're not just paying for the single dose of antivenin, you're also paying for the doses the hospital bought to have on hand which went unused and have expired.  Know what happens when they can't cover the costs of those losses?  They will no longer offer it.  You also have to add in the cost of the expertise to administer it.  Like the timing belt I just bought for $100 but cost me $1000 to have installed.  And, that's just the corner mechanic, I'm sure an MD would be a much higher premium.  But, still, it does sound like an inflated bill that the hospital hoped the insurance company would cover, that kind of stuff goes on all the time in a for-profit business.
 
2014-01-31 11:16:06 AM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Our costs for providing uncompensated care are partially covered by higher bills for other patients."

It's a good thing that, under Obamacare, ALL care provided is now compensated. But please, go right ahead and continue farking that chicken.


You DO know that there will be people who do NOT get insurance and just pay the fine (tax), don't you? The cost of their care will have to come from somewhere which is why we need a single payer set up.
 
2014-01-31 11:16:24 AM  

DubtodaIll: zimbomba63: DubtodaIll: orclover: DubtodaIll: orclover: [singlepayernow.net image 240x240]
Single Payer, its what Jesus would want you farking idiots.

Jesus would have doctors treat the sick for the glory of God not for the money.

Baby steps.

Hey remember when the Hippocratic oath actually meant something?  I hear they dont even do that any more.   Health Care Professional should be a calling, not a get rich job.  Same with Cops and Firemen.  These three groups should be our super hero's, a title that commands respect just for their sacrifice should be Doctor.  Instead its a guy that hands out scrips for boner pills and painkillers.  Legal drug dealers who you pray doesn't accidentally kill you during surgery.

If not for all the porn I would really really hate this century.

Hmm, you're right.  We should construct a system that programs people to be selfless and act for the betterment of society and not for their own selfish gains.  If only there was a long standing system that could be in place to help teach people to do that.

They just have to watch the ants and the bees.  Work until you die.  There is no rest, no pleasure, nothing, because individually you count as nothing.  You live only to serve the hive.  There's your "program".

I was thinking more about religion, which ends up giving you happiness just for serving it.  But yeah, lets look at bees instead.


Wait, where am I?  This is fark, and we're going to hold the religious life up as our model?  I must have been in a coma and missed a lot.  Anyway, I'm a atheist, I'm going to need something else.
 
2014-01-31 11:17:11 AM  

grinding_journalist: You undoubtedly want to miss this point again, and that's fine, but explaining it three times is enough for me.


You seem to be under the mistaken impression that posting untruths as "facts" somehow helps you to get your point across.

It doesn't help that your point is that people who can't afford medical care should just hurry up and die already so that's there's more money for the rest of us, but I've argued with a sociopath already three times today, and that's enough for me as well.
 
2014-01-31 11:18:29 AM  

zimbomba63: They just have to watch the ants and the bees. Work until you die. There is no rest, no pleasure, nothing, because individually you count as nothing. You live only to serve the hive. There's your "program".


It works for 20% of society, why wouldnt it work for the rest?
 
2014-01-31 11:18:43 AM  

RedPhoenix122: Headline:   Snake Bite Costs North Carolina Couple $89,000 Hospital Bill

FTFA:  Though their Blue Cross Blue Shield Insurance reduced the bill to a little over $20,000, according to the Charlotte Observer, and they only ended up paying about $5,400 to cover their deductible and co-pay, the couple said they were shocked by the price of treatment.

Then it didn't cost them $89,000, did it?  That's how insurance works.


Absolutely right.  Bogus reporting.
 
kab
2014-01-31 11:20:07 AM  
This incredibly selfish couple needs to gather some empathy for the insurance companies that are barely keeping the lights on while providing reasonable costs to everyone.
 
2014-01-31 11:20:58 AM  

orclover: zimbomba63: They just have to watch the ants and the bees. Work until you die. There is no rest, no pleasure, nothing, because individually you count as nothing. You live only to serve the hive. There's your "program".

It works for 20% of society, why wouldnt it work for the rest?


Which 20% would that be, pray tell?
 
2014-01-31 11:30:21 AM  
"The doctor said you're going to die."
 
2014-01-31 11:33:47 AM  

MayoSlather: It's their own fault for not utilizing the free market and shopping around for hospitals to get the best price. Hard to feel sorry for dumbasses that probably just went to the first hospital they found.


7/10

got some bites (no pun intended)
 
2014-01-31 11:38:25 AM  
Our costs for providing uncompensated care are partially covered by higher bills for other patients."

and this is how the middle and upper classes already subsidize the poor.  the wealth was already being transferred pre-obamacare.
 
2014-01-31 11:40:17 AM  

give me doughnuts: Universal single-payer.

NOW!


Nope.
 
2014-01-31 11:42:24 AM  
A man in Cary foolishly picked up a young copperhead when his dog spotted it, and he was bitten on the thumb. Once the hospital was done treating the bite, he was hit with a bill for $35,000 that his insurance refused to cover. This was before ACA was law as well, so these high prices have nothing to do with that.
 
2014-01-31 11:49:44 AM  

BenJammin: RedPhoenix122: Headline:   Snake Bite Costs North Carolina Couple $89,000 Hospital Bill

FTFA:  Though their Blue Cross Blue Shield Insurance reduced the bill to a little over $20,000, according to the Charlotte Observer, and they only ended up paying about $5,400 to cover their deductible and co-pay, the couple said they were shocked by the price of treatment.

Then it didn't cost them $89,000, did it?  That's how insurance works.

Absolutely right.  Bogus reporting.


Where did the little over $14,600 come from? It'll take the snakebite people 3 years to pay this back if insurance premiums are $400/mo, while the insurance company invests these premiums. Even if every bit of the premium these people pay goes to medical care, the insurance company still makes cash off investments. It's like a 401K plan you build for retirement, but you won't get any of the interest and only that principle you can prove you need. Retire and want to buy a fancy new car? Sorry, you can only buy the base model, but we allow substituting a generic fancy used car. But the car we want only costs $5400! Nope - it's really $20,000 and there's nothing you can say about it. Feel lucky you didn't have to pay $89,000 we're doing you a favor.
 
2014-01-31 11:50:23 AM  
$500 per stitch in emergency rooms. So, $89k sounds about right for a snake bite.

/Nope, nothing farked up about our medical system in this country
 
2014-01-31 11:57:52 AM  

Ficoce: BenJammin: RedPhoenix122: Headline:   Snake Bite Costs North Carolina Couple $89,000 Hospital Bill

FTFA:  Though their Blue Cross Blue Shield Insurance reduced the bill to a little over $20,000, according to the Charlotte Observer, and they only ended up paying about $5,400 to cover their deductible and co-pay, the couple said they were shocked by the price of treatment.

Then it didn't cost them $89,000, did it?  That's how insurance works.

Absolutely right.  Bogus reporting.

Where did the little over $14,600 come from? It'll take the snakebite people 3 years to pay this back if insurance premiums are $400/mo, while the insurance company invests these premiums. Even if every bit of the premium these people pay goes to medical care, the insurance company still makes cash off investments. It's like a 401K plan you build for retirement, but you won't get any of the interest and only that principle you can prove you need. Retire and want to buy a fancy new car? Sorry, you can only buy the base model, but we allow substituting a generic fancy used car. But the car we want only costs $5400! Nope - it's really $20,000 and there's nothing you can say about it. Feel lucky you didn't have to pay $89,000 we're doing you a favor.


Not sure what you are talking about.   What 14,600?
 
2014-01-31 12:03:12 PM  

Headso: Our costs for providing uncompensated care are partially covered by higher bills for other patients.


In other words the middle class pretty much carry the burden of the uninsured and under-insured.


We have a winner.  When you consider the size of the population of the middle class vs. the wealthy, it makes sense why we don't have single payer. If we had single payer, then the wealthy would be picking up a much larger share of the current "uncompensated care" through higher taxes (or, we just print, mo' money).

The way it is now, the middle and upper classes overpay for hospital by similar amounts per capita. Two differences though:  That $5000 OOP bill to cover deductibles equals one helluva lot higer percentage of our anual income than the wealthy. And, there are a lot more of us than them, so, yes, we carry the burden.
 
2014-01-31 12:07:10 PM  

zimbomba63: orclover: zimbomba63: They just have to watch the ants and the bees. Work until you die. There is no rest, no pleasure, nothing, because individually you count as nothing. You live only to serve the hive. There's your "program".

It works for 20% of society, why wouldnt it work for the rest?

Which 20% would that be, pray tell?


The ones making <$10 an hour obviously.
 
2014-01-31 12:08:27 PM  

zimbomba63: Russad: zimbomba63:What you say makes a lot of sense, you know, if anybody could a medical degree from a coupon off a box of breakfast cereal.  But, if I had to do the whole medical school grind, I think I'd want a little compensation for the effort.  The idea of doing all that, and ending up just a smidge better off, than a guy who may not have graduated from high school and spends the day sweeping up on the loading dock, would be kind of stupid.  But, hey, that's just me.

This would be a better argument if medical schools didn't gate the number of applicants, artificially restricting the number of people available to be doctors.

You're right, throw open the gates.  "Hey, you!  You want to be a doctor?  "Huh, ah...OK!"  "Well, come on in, this won't take long."


This would be a better response if you didn't have to pass board examinations to practice medicine.
 
2014-01-31 12:23:52 PM  
Basically, Obama couldn't get single payer so he released the ACA which is problematic, at best, so people would get sick of it and demand single payer.
 
2014-01-31 12:24:09 PM  

WTFDYW: CSB


I never understood how that can be legal, that they have a different price for cash but charge your insurance more. I just ran into this with a chiropractor. She wouldn't tell me exactly how much my insurance would be billed, but as my insurance doesn't cover a lot toward chiropractor, I just paid the cash value anyway...as it would have cost me more to wait for the insurance to be billed and then pay the difference. Easier to budget with a straight up number.

Not sure how that benefits me if I had to go to the hospital. Pretty lame.

A cost should be a cost. I understand the mentality of "Well then we have to wait to be paid by the insurance company, wah wah" but still. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. :\
 
2014-01-31 12:44:05 PM  
On a Sunday morning a few weeks ago, I went to the ER with crippling abdominal pain. After being taken back to a room (within about 20 minutes), I was examined, tentatively diagnosed with a serious infection, and whacked up with morphine. I was there for 10 hours, received four doses of pain meds, countless IV solution, 2 courses each of IV antibiotics, and a CAT scan. I went home that night in much better shape with an Rx for two different high-powered antibiotics. The next morning, my family doctor called to see how I was doing- The ER automatically sent the records to my own doctor.

How much was I billed? Nothing. I handed them my Nova Scotia health card. How high are my taxes? About the same as comparable cities in the Northeastern US. Oh- and the two Rx for antibiotics cost a total of $40.

Single payer is the way, folks. Delivering health care should not be a for-profit business. Thank goodness I don't live in the US any more.
 
2014-01-31 12:45:42 PM  

give me doughnuts: Universal single-payer.

NOW!


You didn't even bother reading the article before you demanded your free stuff.
 
2014-01-31 01:00:11 PM  

BenJammin: Ficoce: BenJammin: RedPhoenix122: Headline:   Snake Bite Costs North Carolina Couple $89,000 Hospital Bill

FTFA:  Though their Blue Cross Blue Shield Insurance reduced the bill to a little over $20,000, according to the Charlotte Observer, and they only ended up paying about $5,400 to cover their deductible and co-pay, the couple said they were shocked by the price of treatment.

Then it didn't cost them $89,000, did it?  That's how insurance works.

Absolutely right.  Bogus reporting.

Where did the little over $14,600 come from? It'll take the snakebite people 3 years to pay this back if insurance premiums are $400/mo, while the insurance company invests these premiums. Even if every bit of the premium these people pay goes to medical care, the insurance company still makes cash off investments. It's like a 401K plan you build for retirement, but you won't get any of the interest and only that principle you can prove you need. Retire and want to buy a fancy new car? Sorry, you can only buy the base model, but we allow substituting a generic fancy used car. But the car we want only costs $5400! Nope - it's really $20,000 and there's nothing you can say about it. Feel lucky you didn't have to pay $89,000 we're doing you a favor.

Not sure what you are talking about.   What 14,600?


That's what the bill was; little over $20K. Sure, the people only had to pay $5600 cash, but they've been paying medical insurance to pay for the rest. 20,000 - 5600 = 14,600, for years now. Medical insurance is a loan you pay forward on - these guys bought "health" for $5600 down and roughly $400/mo for three years.

I've been paying forward my medical loan for 32 years at an average expense of $388/month. This means the insurance companies are now stock trading almost $150,000 of my money. Because of the time value of money, they have probably turned this into a half million - of which I will see none of even if I get sick or injured. If I do get sick or injured, my deduct and co-pay will cover the actual cost of medical care, while the hospital tries to gouge the insurance company of the principle and interest my account holds.
 
2014-01-31 01:01:12 PM  

MarshWoman: Thank goodness I don't live in the US any more.


So we agree?
 
2014-01-31 01:04:55 PM  

Headso: Our costs for providing uncompensated care are partially covered by higher bills for other patients.


In other words the middle class pretty much carry the burden of the uninsured and under-insured.


They also carry the cost of underpayments from Medicare and Medicaid... which has a greater cost shift than uninsured. But you are intellectually honest so I believe you simply forgot to mention that part.
 
2014-01-31 01:12:44 PM  

trappedspirit: MarshWoman: Thank goodness I don't live in the US any more.

So we agree?


Yes, we do. Efficient health care delivery ranks: Canada- 17th,  USA- 46th right after Iran, but ahead of Serbia.
http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-efficient-h ea lth-care-countries
 
2014-01-31 01:21:26 PM  

The Larch: With that said, I have absolutely no idea what uttertosh meant when he said, "Even although I'm taxed 32% as a single man". That just doesn't make any type of sense.


Sorry.

Single, not married, no dependants, live alone. As one of those guys, I pay 32% of my income to the tax man.

It's at just under a half million Kronor ($75,000) a year of earnings, that the tax band goes up to 52%

YixilTesiphon: No, but the income tax you pay the national government depends on your income, this is for a single person in 2013:
b-i.forbesimg.com
I'm saying that you have to have a high wage to fit into the bracket where you get taxed anything like 32%.


Cool, but not over here ;-) Heh, I wish!!!!
 
2014-01-31 01:25:50 PM  

Ficoce: BenJammin: Ficoce: BenJammin: RedPhoenix122: Headline:   Snake Bite Costs North Carolina Couple $89,000 Hospital Bill

FTFA:  Though their Blue Cross Blue Shield Insurance reduced the bill to a little over $20,000, according to the Charlotte Observer, and they only ended up paying about $5,400 to cover their deductible and co-pay, the couple said they were shocked by the price of treatment.

Then it didn't cost them $89,000, did it?  That's how insurance works.

Absolutely right.  Bogus reporting.

Where did the little over $14,600 come from? It'll take the snakebite people 3 years to pay this back if insurance premiums are $400/mo, while the insurance company invests these premiums. Even if every bit of the premium these people pay goes to medical care, the insurance company still makes cash off investments. It's like a 401K plan you build for retirement, but you won't get any of the interest and only that principle you can prove you need. Retire and want to buy a fancy new car? Sorry, you can only buy the base model, but we allow substituting a generic fancy used car. But the car we want only costs $5400! Nope - it's really $20,000 and there's nothing you can say about it. Feel lucky you didn't have to pay $89,000 we're doing you a favor.

Not sure what you are talking about.   What 14,600?

That's what the bill was; little over $20K. Sure, the people only had to pay $5600 cash, but they've been paying medical insurance to pay for the rest. 20,000 - 5600 = 14,600, for years now. Medical insurance is a loan you pay forward on - these guys bought "health" for $5600 down and roughly $400/mo for three years.

I've been paying forward my medical loan for 32 years at an average expense of $388/month. This means the insurance companies are now stock trading almost $150,000 of my money. Because of the time value of money, they have probably turned this into a half million - of which I will see none of even if I get sick or injured. If I do get sick or injured, my deduct a ...


Ah, I see what you are saying, but insurance isn't free, one is paying a smaller amount to protect against a finance destroying larger amount.  And your calculation is making the assumption that they did not get any other benefits from their insurance.  The same with your "loan"  you've never got any benefit from your insurance in 32 years?
 
2014-01-31 01:28:13 PM  

MarshWoman: Single payer is the way, folks. Delivering health care should not be a for-profit business.


Delivering life sustaining food should not be a for-profit business.
Providing warm, dry places to live should not be a for-profit business.
Distributing party saving alcohol should not be a for-profit business.

I kinda like this sitting back and deciding what I should get for free.  It's nice.
 
2014-01-31 01:36:38 PM  
trappedspirit:  I kinda like this sitting back and deciding what I should get for free.  It's nice.

Don't be a dick. Our health care isn't free, it's paid for with taxes. In the US, there is no "free enterprise" for health care. You can't really price comparison shop among doctors, specialists and hospitals. Comparing that to real estate and supermarkets, where you can comparison shop is just silly. Also, in any of those businesses you mentioned, artificially inflating and rigging prices is against the law. But you knew that already, didn't you? Troll.
 
2014-01-31 02:12:10 PM  

BenJammin: Ficoce: BenJammin: Ficoce: BenJammin: RedPhoenix122: Headline:   Snake Bite Costs North Carolina Couple $89,000 Hospital Bill

FTFA....

Ah, I see what you are saying, but insurance isn't free, one is paying a smaller amount to protect against a finance destroying larger amount.  And your calculation is making the assumption that they did not get any other benefits from their insurance.  The same with your "loan"  you've never got any benefit from your insurance in 32 years?

Nope, no benefit I haven't paid for on top of my insurance. Let me give you a real like example: 4 months ago I went in for a checkup. No problems, just been 5 years since my last one. I paid $20 for my visit, with insurance. I timed it and I spent 4 minutes with the nurse taking vitals, almost 7 minutes with the doctor. $20/11min=$1.81/minute. I paid cash for insured medical care at a rate of over 100 bucks an hour. The clinic billed my insurance company for the max amount both agreed on.

Sure, what happens if something catastrophic happens? I'd first have to know what the true wholesale cost of my illness is compared to the retail value they will try to bill. The insurance company will know. They are holding my money as collateral, and hope they don't have to use it. There's always the cap, and preexisting that they've used in the past. Not with ACA, so everyone's premiums will go up and hopefully cover when people really need it - the less they have to take out of the original principle and interest, the better.

I hate to biatch and moan without giving a solution, here it is. People pay medical insurance throughout their working years while the insurance companies use the principle to earn interest - basically like they do now. The difference being the medical community sets a standard non-profit rate per procedure, and the insurance company must give back the principle at a customers retirement, so that it can be used for long term care. If sudden death occurs the money can be passed on to a relative's medical account.

Right now we pay taxes to the government, who subsidize the non-profit medical community. They can cut us a break and still make a profit with no change to taxes or average quality of care. The insurance company can keep the interest it makes, and since the medical costs will be lower, they can look at the bills they do have to pay like interest a bank pays me when I take out a CD. To keep people from scamming the system, there would still need to be a deduct and co-pay, but it would be affordable. The government would still get their tax money, medical and insurance would still make a profit - But then I could say I get some kind of benefit out of all this money I've paid. Not the best benefit, but something. I don't mind paying for peace of mind, but hate getting raped for it.
 
2014-01-31 02:40:10 PM  

zimbomba63: Fubini: zimbomba63: What you say makes a lot of sense, you know, if anybody could a medical degree from a coupon off a box of breakfast cereal.  But, if I had to do the whole medical school grind, I think I'd want a little compensation for the effort.  The idea of doing all that, and ending up just a smidge better off, than a guy who may not have graduated from high school and spends the day sweeping up on the loading dock, would be kind of stupid.  But, hey, that's just me.

No one is saying they shouldn't be better off, but the question is just how much better off they should be. According to the BLS the MEDIAN "physicians and surgeons" wage is $187,000 per year.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.htm

The median wage in the US is sitting at something like $34K. The median wage for college educated people is something like $55K. The median wage for people with doctorates (not doctors) is about $84K per year.

Is the median doctor really worth 2.2 times more than the median doctorate?

http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm

What about engineers? Chemical engineers make a median wage of $90K. Computer scientists and engineers make a median wage of $84K. Mechanical engineers make a median wage of $78K.

Is the median doctor really worth twice as much as the median engineer?

http://www.mtu.edu/engineering/outreach/welcome/salary/

No one is saying that doctors shouldn't be compensated well for what they do, but how much do they really need? They make exorbitant amounts more than average college educated people, even the traditionally high-paying occupations. They make way more than average people with doctoral degrees, who usually have about as much time invested in their education as a doctor would (median time to graduation is typically another 4.5-5.5 years depending on field of study).

Is that $187,000, before or after malpractice insurance?  The story, there's always more to it.


Good question.  I would also say that 187k is a lot of money (upper middle class), but not enough to make you "rich".  For someone to someone to become an MD it is ~8 years of schooling (4 years + 4 years of med school) + 2 years of residiency (about 45k a year, which pays for the basics).  If you are very specialized, you may have additional residency/fellowship requirements, of course those folks get higher salaries.

Compare an MD with an "investment banker", who has an MBA, pulls in 6 figures right off the bat and only has 6 years of school to pay off.  I don't mind if a physician can have a comfortable living when he/she is helping out the sick.  I'll put it this way, at least when a doctor sticks something up your ass, they are actually trying to help you out, unlike the aforementioned investment banker who just wants to see if there is more cash to be had that way....
 
2014-01-31 03:01:37 PM  
My wife's ex husband was in a terrible motorcycle accident. They flew him to the hospital on a helicopter.Insurance refused to cover most of the charge for the ride because the helicopter service wasn't a preferred provider. My wife was billed $18000 for a 7 minute flight. Had the provide been preferred her deductible on that flight was something like $1000. How the hell can someone who us dying on the side if the road choose what service us used to fly then to the hospital?

 In all, his treatment cost somewhere over $3 million dollars.Insurance covered most of it, but she still got bills of not covered service of over $300,000. She did her best to pay them, depleting a majority of their life savings, but she's a teacher and there want a chance in hell that she could pay $300,000. So eventually she paid what she could and finally told them that was it. To this day it bothers her that she was unable to cover the entire amount, but how can any service expect a customer to cover bills of that size? It isn't possibly, they know it isn't possible. I have no sympathy for hospitals and doctors when it comes to getting stiffed. You cannot price your services (services that aren't for the most part optional) being the ability if people to party and then complain about not getting paid.

  Healthcare costs are out of control. I went to the era few weeks ago, I had a gall bladder attack. I spent two hours in the ER and they did a sonogram. The bill came to $5000. $5k for two hours of care, its insane. My copay was $500. I'll pay it although it will take me a while. I'm disabled due to a workplace accident and even though I receive medicare along with my disability the cost of medical care is just about it of reach. I had to have my GSL bladder removed last week at A cost of almost $27,000. My copay under medicare was $1,300. You might be thinking that $1,800 isn't bad for a copay, but my monthly Social Security benefit is $1,500 a month. It will take me close to two years to pay of the hospital. The point is, how in the hell can people be expected to pay these kind of amounts? When medicare was setup, why was a $1,300  deductible considered to be a good idea? It should have been pretty obvious to the designed of yet plan that most people using this service Erik never be able to pay these kinds if bills, do is it any surprise that hospitals end up eating so much?

  Situ for the rant, its been one if those days.
 
2014-01-31 03:09:25 PM  

Ficoce: BenJammin: Ficoce: BenJammin: Ficoce: BenJammin: RedPhoenix122: Headline:   Snake Bite Costs North Carolina Couple $89,000 Hospital Bill

FTFA....Ah, I see what you are saying, but insurance isn't free, one is paying a smaller amount to protect against a finance destroying larger amount.  And your calculation is making the assumption that they did not get any other benefits from their insurance.  The same with your "loan"  you've never got any benefit from your insurance in 32 years?

Nope, no benefit I haven't paid for on top of my insurance. Let me give you a real like example: 4 months ago I went in for a checkup. No problems, just been 5 years since my last one. I paid $20 for my visit, with insurance. I timed it and I spent 4 minutes with the nurse taking vitals, almost 7 minutes with the doctor. $20/11min=$1.81/minute. I paid cash for insured medical care at a rate of over 100 bucks an hour. The clinic billed my insurance company for the max amount both agreed on.

Sure, what happens if something catastrophic happens? I'd first have to know what the true wholesale cost of my illness is compared to the retail value they will try to bill. The insurance company will know. They are holding my money as collateral, and hope they don't have to use it. There's always the cap, and preexisting that they've used in the past. Not with ACA, so everyone's premiums will go up and hopefully cover when people really need it - the less they have to take out of the original principle and interest, the better.

I hate to biatch and moan without giving a solution, here it is. People pay medical insurance throughout their working years while the insurance companies use the principle to earn interest - basically like they do now. The difference being the medical community sets a standard non-profit rate per procedure, and the insurance company must give back the principle at a customers retirement, so that it can be used for long term care. If sudden death occurs the money can be pa ...


I am not sure how computing an hourly rate based upon your copay figures into this, since it is how much your insurance benefit saves you over no insurance.  Were blood and urine tests also done?   Since you are 50+ish  are you going to get colonoscoped?  My annual checkup, which I pay nothing for, because it is part of their wellness program,  includes blood and uring lab work,  EKG  and chest xray (every other  year).  The colonoscope with anesthesia is $20 copay.

If you had some very expensive illness the only thing that really matters in calculating the benefit is how much you saved over not having the insurance.  Even if the insurance company had an agreement with a hospital so that a $50,000 charge only cost them $15,000.  the fact that without insurance you would have received a bill for the "retail" amount.

Insurance is not fun to pay, and there's always the tendency to feel you are not getting your money's worth (I am not in the insuracne biz, and my rates piss me off), but having worked and saved for the nicer things, it's easier to get upset over an expensive bill than over losing my house and a significant part of my life's savings from a catastrophic medical expenses.
 
2014-01-31 03:15:54 PM  

Target Builder: That said, the sales tax rates in Sweden would probably cause a lot of Americans to go into cardiac arrest at the supermarket checkout.


If you add in the costs of health insurance, health care, AND taxes Americans pay, the Swedish taxes look rather low / attractive.

and if you add in how  effective Swedish hospitals and doctors are compared to their American counterparts, the Swedish taxes look like an absolute bargain.
 
2014-01-31 03:18:17 PM  

RedPhoenix122: Too Pretty For Prison: fish hook in the thumb last summer cost me $4,200.  Which actually pissed me off.  By the time I got the final bill, I had to pay $100 and my insurance company wrote them a check for $483.  I never understood why insurance companies can get away with paying 10% of a bill while the uninsured will be driven to bankruptcy and not given an inch.

Because they raise that price to skim more money off Medicare/Medicaid.  Seriously, just about every insurance company gets discounts, but government assistance pays full price.

But who cares, as long as the rich get richer, the poor get farked, and the middle class stay scared enough to work those shiatty jobs.


The profit margins for insurance industry is nowhere near the top of the list. But hey, as long as we can blame the rich, facts don't matter.
 
2014-01-31 03:19:54 PM  

give me doughnuts: Universal single-payer.

NOW!


The price is too damn high!
If they don't bring the costs down then we're only debating who will go broke first. The government or the people.

/Not that it'll make a difference when the fed comes for the remainder of our paychecks.
 
2014-01-31 03:26:27 PM  

OBBN: My wife's ex husband was in a terrible motorcycle accident. They flew him to the hospital on a helicopter.Insurance refused to cover most of the charge for the ride because the helicopter service wasn't a preferred provider. My wife was billed $18000 for a 7 minute flight. Had the provide been preferred her deductible on that flight was something like $1000. How the hell can someone who us dying on the side if the road choose what service us used to fly then to the hospital?


Agree with this!  One of the reasons healthcare, IMO, can't be treated like other services that are for profit.  If it was really marketplace, you would have multple providers offering to you at the time you want service.  When I want to get a mobile phone, I can choose AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, MetroPCS, etc. depending on my budget.  You can't choose your healthcare provider, especially in rural service areas.  And don't tell me you can can get different insurance providers.  So what? They still end up having to pay the same healthcare provider (hospital, clinic, ambulance services, etc)

 In all, his treatment cost somewhere over $3 million dollars.Insurance covered most of it, but she still got bills of not covered service of over $300,000. She did her best to pay them, depleting a majority of their life savings, but she's a teacher and there want a chance in hell that she could pay $300,000. So eventually she paid what she could and finally told them that was it. To this day it bothers her that she was unable to cover the entire amount, but how can any service expect a customer to cover bills of that size? It isn't possibly, they know it isn't possible. I have no sympathy for hospitals and doctors when it comes to getting stiffed. You cannot price your services (services that aren't for the most part optional) being the ability if people to party and then complain about not getting paid.

Yet another symptom that it isn't a real market.  In  a real market, these things would work out.  It isn't a real market.  It is an insurance cartel.

  Healthcare costs are out of control. I went to the era few weeks ago, I had a gall bladder attack. I spent two hours in the ER and they did a sonogram. The bill came to $5000. $5k for two hours of care, its insane. My copay was $500. I'll pay it although it will take me a while. I'm disabled due to a workplace accident and even though I receive medicare along with my disability the cost of medical care is just about it of reach. I had to have my GSL bladder removed last week at A cost of almost $27,000. My copay under medicare was $1,300. You might be thinking that $1,800 isn't bad for a copay, but my monthly Social Security benefit is $1,500 a month. It will take me close to two years to ...

To your point, people cant be expected to do so.  I am somewhat libertarian, but there are limitations.  This is one of them.  If the market naturally prices people out as consumers, it isn't a real market.  So one of two things needs to happen.

1.)  The market needs to be completely unfettered.  This works well for areas that should be competitive but the government  had previously granted monopolies to.  I am thinking of cable TV monopolies by location and power service (here in Texas you can easily choose your power provider, works pretty damn well).

2.) The government needs to provide some level of base service.  So, for example, emergency and preventative care.   The market can then lay on top of this.  The trick here is determining the base level.  A good example of this service is home security. (yes, really!).  You get police service for your area, regardless of income.  You pay nothing, other taxes.  So if someone robs you can have recourse.  Not very good security, but better than none at all.  The add-on level is a home alarm system (and beyond).  You get a monitored solution to be proactive and get the cops out there quickly, maybe even quick enough to apprehend.
 
2014-01-31 03:31:06 PM  

orclover: zimbomba63: orclover: zimbomba63: They just have to watch the ants and the bees. Work until you die. There is no rest, no pleasure, nothing, because individually you count as nothing. You live only to serve the hive. There's your "program".

It works for 20% of society, why wouldnt it work for the rest?

Which 20% would that be, pray tell?

The ones making <$10 an hour obviously.


Russad: zimbomba63: Russad: zimbomba63:What you say makes a lot of sense, you know, if anybody could a medical degree from a coupon off a box of breakfast cereal.  But, if I had to do the whole medical school grind, I think I'd want a little compensation for the effort.  The idea of doing all that, and ending up just a smidge better off, than a guy who may not have graduated from high school and spends the day sweeping up on the loading dock, would be kind of stupid.  But, hey, that's just me.

This would be a better argument if medical schools didn't gate the number of applicants, artificially restricting the number of people available to be doctors.

You're right, throw open the gates.  "Hey, you!  You want to be a doctor?  "Huh, ah...OK!"  "Well, come on in, this won't take long."

This would be a better response if you didn't have to pass board examinations to practice medicine.


Those examinations are just part of the problem, they make them too hard.  People fail them, and that's bad for their self-esteem.

How many spots are open in teaching hospitals?  How many intern positions are available for the people coming out of med school?  If you accept more people into med school where are they going to go?  People with more knowledge concerning the process of becoming a doctor help me out here.
 
2014-01-31 03:33:26 PM  

MarshWoman: trappedspirit:  I kinda like this sitting back and deciding what I should get for free.  It's nice.

Don't be a dick. Our health care isn't free, it's paid for with taxes. In the US, there is no "free enterprise" for health care. You can't really price comparison shop among doctors, specialists and hospitals. Comparing that to real estate and supermarkets, where you can comparison shop is just silly. Also, in any of those businesses you mentioned, artificially inflating and rigging prices is against the law. But you knew that already, didn't you? Troll.


Why do you hate the homeless?
 
2014-01-31 03:58:14 PM  
My apologies for all of the misspellings in my above post. I did it on my phone without the aid of my glasses. That combined with the insane auto-correct makes me wish I took the time to proofread before I hit post. I'm very sorry for subjecting all of you to that disaster.
 
2014-01-31 04:09:40 PM  
YixilTesiphon:
I'm saying that you have to have a high wage to fit into the bracket where you get taxed anything like 32%.

Depends what you consider "tax".   If you add in Federal, Social Security, Medicare, and health insurance (I consider all of these to be "taxes" for these discussions since you're not going to be able to get away with not paying them, and it makes it easier when discussion European tax rates), I think most of us hit 30%+ very quickly, even with low wages.
 
2014-01-31 04:31:58 PM  
No, no, no. We have the best healthcare in the world. The best. Why Obama wants to ruin it with all his socialism is beyond me.
 
Displayed 50 of 157 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report