If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Time)   Snake bite causes $89,000 hospital bill. It would have been less but the snake demanded a private room   (healthland.time.com) divider line 157
    More: Asinine, North Carolina, hospitals, uncompensated care, medical bills, Mooresville, emergency rooms  
•       •       •

6310 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jan 2014 at 8:26 AM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



157 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-01-31 09:37:09 AM
"Cost them a whopping $89,000. The Charlotte Observer The four vials of anti-venom medication Ferguson received reportedly cost about $20,000 each. Ferguson and his wife Laura researched the price of the medicine and found its retail price was between $750 and $12,000 per vial. Medicare, they reportedly found, would have paid about $9,460 for the total treatment Though their Blue Cross Blue Shield Insurance reduced the bill to a little over $20,000,

It sounds like buying a rug from a merchant in Cairo - the sticker price has almost no correlation with how much money will eventually change hands, except in this case if you have to haggle on your own you'll die before a price is agreed on.
 
2014-01-31 09:40:31 AM
singlepayernow.net
Single Payer, its what Jesus would want you farking idiots.
 
2014-01-31 09:41:02 AM
No kidding? Lol, this racket between the government, medical, and insurance has been blatantly going on for years; the ACA is just a new spin to add to the coffers.

Most hospitals are non-profit business that receive funding from city, state, and federal governments - in other words we fund them.

Most businesses set price points by what the market will bear, the profit determined by how low they can get the wholesale below the retail. How do you figure the wholesale cost when the funding comes from outside? You don't, you just charge what the market will bear and try to figure out ways to invest all that profit to keep non-profit status. Hospitals and insurance partner together to charge as much as they can, while making the customer feel they got a bargain. If the customer knows a business pays next to nothing for raw material, will they pay more? Nope.

We don't see the true cost of a hospital visit. I think what they do is figure out what the overhead is for the various procedures, or products, and this dollar amount is what we are charged for in our deductible and co-pays. Instead of thinking about this like we usually do, we get a big bill, insurance cuts it way down, and we pay a percentage - think that we pay for the total service when we go to the doctor and insurance premiums are just theft. For example in the article the original bill was $89,000, cut down to 20 grand by insurance, with the customer paying $5400 out of pocket. I think the true cost with reasonable profit was $5400. All the rest of the tens of thousands just went in peoples pockets.

Wife and I went to Canada where our insurance doesn't work and she went to the emergency room of a large hospital with a sinus infection. We had to pay out of pocket for the whole thing. The hospital figured the cost for the procedures needed and that's what we paid - $160. That's what it cost and that's what we paid.

Now, I'm sure I'll get flamed with responses like, "but that's not the cost, think of all the doctors and expensive equipment involved!" Yeah, well, remember all the funding the hospitals get?

Think about this; when you take your car in for alignment the computerized machine they use can cost over a hundred thousand+. The mechanic has years of training and experience, the guy at the counter gets paid, and someone has to pay for the TV and couch you hang out on while the guy working on your car uses $50,000 worth of hand tools to make your car drive straight. If this procedure cost over a hundred bucks, you would be pissed. What if they handed you a bill for $9 grand? You would be running to the lawyer. The guy at the counter might say, "Hey look, we really should charge $100,000 for your alignment, but we're cutting you a break." Would you fall for that?

Yet with medical, you're damn happy to pay the thousands. We are a democracy, so we go to our reps - and they make it legal to rip us off.
 
2014-01-31 09:42:39 AM

Target Builder: "Cost them a whopping $89,000. The Charlotte Observer The four vials of anti-venom medication Ferguson received reportedly cost about $20,000 each. Ferguson and his wife Laura researched the price of the medicine and found its retail price was between $750 and $12,000 per vial. Medicare, they reportedly found, would have paid about $9,460 for the total treatment Though their Blue Cross Blue Shield Insurance reduced the bill to a little over $20,000,

It sounds like buying a rug from a merchant in Cairo - the sticker price has almost no correlation with how much money will eventually change hands, except in this case if you have to haggle on your own you'll die before a price is agreed on.


Yeah. Getting a price on healthcare should NOT look like this...

i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-01-31 09:42:46 AM

orclover: [singlepayernow.net image 240x240]
Single Payer, its what Jesus would want you farking idiots.


Jesus would have doctors treat the sick for the glory of God not for the money.
 
2014-01-31 09:44:45 AM

uttertosh: Even although I'm taxed 32% as a single man, I also get bills for hospital visits, doctor appointments, medications - it's just that the yearly total amount is capped over here (Doctor appointment is ~$30, but my monthly meds are ~ $450 - each Payment makes the next payment get a reduction, till It's no charge - But it's NEVAR FREE!!)


If you lived in America all that would  be about the same but you'd also pay 400+ dollars a month for health insurance.
 
2014-01-31 09:45:00 AM

Johnson: vonmatrices: Hospitals bill insurance companies way too much for procedures because customers won't care.

While that is partly true and a holdback from the olden days where employer-based health insurance actually covered just about everything, insurance companies are now dealing not with individually owned hospitals, but large corporations made up of a "network" of different hospitals.

This actually gives them more leverage to say "we will pay X amount, or X percent of the list price for these procedures."  Just as they already do with Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements.

The hospital simply jacks up the "list" price so that the pre-negotiated percentage the insurance company pays covers the actual costs.  Unfortunately the patient does not get this discount for their co-pay.  Unless you negotiate it somehow and if you really push the issue, you CAN bring your end of the cost down.


The end result of consolidation in any industry is that the large consolidated partners gets to argue over fees, services, and such, and any price discrepancy or quality issues get passed onto the customers.  Since the customers have very little option with regards to alternate service (due to consolidation), and individually don't have much swap over a large organization, they will end up getting affected.  When the one organization that is supposed to work on behalf of the people tries to do anything (AKA - Government), everyone cries "Socialism" and nothing happens.
 
2014-01-31 09:45:04 AM
"Hospitals only collect a small percentage of our charges, or 'list prices.' We are required to give Medicare one level of discount from list price, Medicaid another, and private insurers negotiate for still others. ... If we did not start with the list prices we have, we would not end up with enough revenue to remain in operation. ... Our costs for providing uncompensated care are partially covered by higher bills for other patients."

That is a really farking stupid system that gives an especially epic screwing to the uninsured.
 
2014-01-31 09:47:07 AM

uttertosh: Cold_Sassy: uttertosh: Headso: Our costs for providing uncompensated care are partially covered by higher bills for other patients.


In other words the middle class pretty much carry the burden of the uninsured and under-insured.

I know, right? It's like some kind of dystopian communistist nightmare y'all are living in.


Well you don't even live in the United States, so when you start paying for it then feel free to mouth off.

I do pay for it, you muppet. With taxes, and getting billed.

Even although I'm taxed 32% as a single man, I also get bills for hospital visits, doctor appointments, medications - it's just that the yearly total amount is capped over here (Doctor appointment is ~$30, but my monthly meds are ~ $450 - each Payment makes the next payment get a reduction, till It's no charge - But it's NEVAR FREE!!)


Your profile says you live in Sweden.  Do you or do you not?
 
2014-01-31 09:47:27 AM

MayoSlather: It's their own fault for not utilizing the free market and shopping around for hospitals to get the best price. Hard to feel sorry for dumbasses that probably just went to the first hospital they found.


==============

Done in 3.  Alternately, they could have got their John Galt, gone to medical school, and treated themselves.
 
2014-01-31 09:53:06 AM

give me doughnuts: Universal single-payer.

NOW!


Jawohl, mien Furhrer!
 
2014-01-31 09:54:47 AM

Cold_Sassy: uttertosh: Cold_Sassy: uttertosh: Headso: Our costs for providing uncompensated care are partially covered by higher bills for other patients.


In other words the middle class pretty much carry the burden of the uninsured and under-insured.

I know, right? It's like some kind of dystopian communistist nightmare y'all are living in.


Well you don't even live in the United States, so when you start paying for it then feel free to mouth off.

I do pay for it, you muppet. With taxes, and getting billed.

Even although I'm taxed 32% as a single man, I also get bills for hospital visits, doctor appointments, medications - it's just that the yearly total amount is capped over here (Doctor appointment is ~$30, but my monthly meds are ~ $450 - each Payment makes the next payment get a reduction, till It's no charge - But it's NEVAR FREE!!)

Your profile says you live in Sweden.  Do you or do you not?


I live in Sweden. Yes.

Headso: If you lived in America all that would be about the same but you'd also pay 400+ dollars a month for health insurance.


pretty retarded sounding to me - especially with what the article is about
 
2014-01-31 09:56:03 AM

uttertosh: Cold_Sassy: uttertosh: Cold_Sassy: uttertosh: Headso: Our costs for providing uncompensated care are partially covered by higher bills for other patients.


In other words the middle class pretty much carry the burden of the uninsured and under-insured.

I know, right? It's like some kind of dystopian communistist nightmare y'all are living in.


Well you don't even live in the United States, so when you start paying for it then feel free to mouth off.

I do pay for it, you muppet. With taxes, and getting billed.

Even although I'm taxed 32% as a single man, I also get bills for hospital visits, doctor appointments, medications - it's just that the yearly total amount is capped over here (Doctor appointment is ~$30, but my monthly meds are ~ $450 - each Payment makes the next payment get a reduction, till It's no charge - But it's NEVAR FREE!!)

Your profile says you live in Sweden.  Do you or do you not?

I live in Sweden. Yes.

Headso: If you lived in America all that would be about the same but you'd also pay 400+ dollars a month for health insurance.

pretty retarded sounding to me - especially with what the article is about


Well, you have to make an awful lot of money to have a net tax rate of 32% unless you live in California or New York.
 
2014-01-31 09:58:42 AM

YixilTesiphon: skeevy420: vudukungfu: Fubini: I am not above saying that the medical industry as a whole is a bunch of crooks

I am.

Me too.

Had a few mrsa infections last year. $1500 for a 15 minute lancing and 2 prescriptions. First day I waited about 8 hours and 6 the second before I was finally seen. 2nd infection was the same, only 1 day and 6 hours. 5th infection was surgery, 3 days in isolation, iv antibiotics, and $15000.

Nothing the doctors did I couldn't do. Before you surgery guys chime in, I wouldn't have needed the surgery if it wouldn't cost $500 to see a doc to get antibiotics.

Infections 3, 4, & 6-9 I lanced myself and used antibiotics from friends/family (luckily I found the same kind I was being prescribed).

When I was 21 my dumbass punched a wall and got a cracked bone in my hand. Didn't initially go to the hospital cause I thought I could manage. 1am I went cause my left hand was swollen all to hell. 3am I finally see a doc who eventually misread the xray and accused me of trying to get pain pills. I went off on the guy...I don't even like pain pill BTW...and an older doc walked by, glanced at the xray, and said you don't see those two cracks right there, turned to me and said you must be in pain. Yep, but I'm just here for some kind of brace or wrapping, I don't want any pills if necessary. About 10 minutes later the old doc returned with a brace and a vicodin prescription. $3500.

You're going to the wrong doc-in-a-box. Got the telltale Lyme disease rash last summer and I think the visit will cost me $100. The pills were maybe $80.


Pills were only $4 a pop and not included above. Those figures were the rounded down ER bills. St. Joseph's Mercy in Hot Springs, AR....just giving the heads up.

Up until recently I made too much for govt insurance but not enough to afford it on my own. Never been a big deal till the past 6 months with a mrsa infection popping up every 3 weeks like clockwork.

I've done and am doing everything recommended to do and the just keep on coming. Recurring staph sucks.
 
2014-01-31 09:59:24 AM

zimbomba63: give me doughnuts: Universal single-payer.

NOW!

Jawohl, mien Furhrer!



Raus! SCHNELL! SCHNELL!
 
2014-01-31 10:00:06 AM

uttertosh: Headso: If you lived in America all that would be about the same but you'd also pay 400+ dollars a month for health insurance.

pretty retarded sounding to me - especially with what the article is about


yeah if you had an accident it would be even more but I was referring to your tax rate and your chronic condition
 
2014-01-31 10:00:57 AM
CSB

Had to get carted from one hospital to another in 2012. The ambulance company sends me a bill for $750.00 for the trip. I already had my deductible and co-pay met so I called the insurance company to ask what was up. The ambulance company never billed them for the ride so I called the ambulance company. It was as easy as that. I gave them the insurance information so they could bill the insurance company. Here's the kicker. The lady on the phone said that since the insurance company was paying the bill it would now be $1276.77.

CSB/
 
2014-01-31 10:01:01 AM
YixilTesiphon:

Well, you have to make an awful lot of money to have a net tax rate of 32% unless you live in California or New York.

That depends if you include state, payroll, medicare, ss, and property taxes into that number. I'm not sure what other taxes uttertosh pays but different tax systems fund those through other revenue streams.

That said, the sales tax rates in Sweden would probably cause a lot of Americans to go into cardiac arrest at the supermarket checkout.
 
2014-01-31 10:01:12 AM

YixilTesiphon: Well, you have to make an awful lot of money to have a net tax rate of 32% unless you live in California or New York.


I have no idea what that means. Are you saying that one's wage must be high in order to compensate for that high a tax?
 
2014-01-31 10:02:25 AM

RyansPrivates: Fubini:
I am not above saying that the medical industry as a whole is a bunch of crooks. I understand that stuff costs money, and medical grade stuff is inordinately expensive, but when you can't even give me a ballpark figure on how much a procedure costs, or justify your bill for three months after the fact, you have lost all my trust and respect. The single greatest thing we could do for healthcare in this country is to legally require that patients be given a price quote prior to an operation with a +10% upper bound on what they'll eventually be charged.

I would agree with one small caveat: I really don't think it is the doctors.   It is mostly the insurance providers, with hospitals on board to so they can get paid.  Insurance providers are incentivized to make the process as byzantine as possible to protect their profits ; the more difficult it is to actually find out where the money is going, the better for them.  The problem is healthcare is a product that everyone needs at some point in their lives, so they also have no incentive to really compete, and it is very a regional business.  You generally end up at hospital 20 miles within your home if you live in a metro area, 100 miles or so in a rural area.  This means hospitals aren't competing with each other very much, and the barriers for entry are very high.  There is no "Costco" of healthcare to come in and undercut the local stores.  The effect is what you experienced,


I work in a doctor's office. It used to be a private practice, so you better believe the Doctors/owners know how billing works. The doctors will always play ignorant about prices and billing because people give them the benefit of the doubt because, lifesavers.
In fact if you pay attention, you'll notice that many if not most of the people in charge of hospitals and insurance companies are MDs.
 
2014-01-31 10:02:51 AM

Target Builder: That said, the sales tax rates in Sweden would probably cause a lot of Americans to go into cardiac arrest at the supermarket checkout.


Don't forget the Gasoline prices!!
 
2014-01-31 10:03:37 AM

WTFDYW: CSB

Had to get carted from one hospital to another in 2012. The ambulance company sends me a bill for $750.00 for the trip. I already had my deductible and co-pay met so I called the insurance company to ask what was up. The ambulance company never billed them for the ride so I called the ambulance company. It was as easy as that. I gave them the insurance information so they could bill the insurance company. Here's the kicker. The lady on the phone said that since the insurance company was paying the bill it would now be $1276.77.

CSB/


See my posts above. My prices listed were after the 20% no insurance discount.
 
2014-01-31 10:05:47 AM

grinding_journalist: Fun fact: Regardless of other health issues, dialysis treatment for ESRD/585.6 patients costs $150,000/person/year. NIH estimates that there are 20 MILLION people receiving these treatments, the MAJORITY of which are on some form of Medicare/Medicaid. How many of these people would still be receiving treatments if they had to pay for it themselves, I wonder? Again, I'm not talking about 54-year-old Joe, with a job and health insurance and a family and two kids, I'm talking about  97-year-old Great Uncle James, the majority of whose weekly activity comes in the form of being wheeled into a clinic and hooked up to a machine.


Twenty million people on dialysis times $150,000 per year for dialysis works out to the United States spending $3.0 TRILLION per year on dialysis.  That's 7% more than $2.8 trillion total dollars spend on health care in the United States in 2012.

Your fun fact is not just not a fact, it's not even in spitting distance of the possibility of being a fact.
 
2014-01-31 10:07:29 AM

uttertosh: YixilTesiphon: Well, you have to make an awful lot of money to have a net tax rate of 32% unless you live in California or New York.

I have no idea what that means. Are you saying that one's wage must be high in order to compensate for that high a tax?


No, but the income tax you pay the national government depends on your income, this is for a single person in 2013:
b-i.forbesimg.com
I'm saying that you have to have a high wage to fit into the bracket where you get taxed anything like 32%.

Every state has a different (in a few cases, like Texas, none) income tax, and as others have mentioned there's property, sales, etc taxes at local and state levels.
 
2014-01-31 10:08:24 AM

DubtodaIll: orclover: [singlepayernow.net image 240x240]
Single Payer, its what Jesus would want you farking idiots.

Jesus would have doctors treat the sick for the glory of God not for the money.


Baby steps.

Hey remember when the Hippocratic oath actually meant something?  I hear they dont even do that any more.   Health Care Professional should be a calling, not a get rich job.  Same with Cops and Firemen.  These three groups should be our super hero's, a title that commands respect just for their sacrifice should be Doctor.  Instead its a guy that hands out scrips for boner pills and painkillers.  Legal drug dealers who you pray doesn't accidentally kill you during surgery.

If not for all the porn I would really really hate this century.
 
2014-01-31 10:11:36 AM

YixilTesiphon: Every state has a different (in a few cases, like Texas, none) income tax, and as others have mentioned there's property, sales, etc taxes at local and state levels.


And everything has service fees and if you violate some rule fines are very high. You can't even have your kid play sports these days without dropping a couple hundred in fees.
 
2014-01-31 10:13:04 AM

orclover: DubtodaIll: orclover: [singlepayernow.net image 240x240]
Single Payer, its what Jesus would want you farking idiots.

Jesus would have doctors treat the sick for the glory of God not for the money.

Baby steps.

Hey remember when the Hippocratic oath actually meant something?  I hear they dont even do that any more.   Health Care Professional should be a calling, not a get rich job.  Same with Cops and Firemen.  These three groups should be our super hero's, a title that commands respect just for their sacrifice should be Doctor.  Instead its a guy that hands out scrips for boner pills and painkillers.  Legal drug dealers who you pray doesn't accidentally kill you during surgery.

If not for all the porn I would really really hate this century.


Hmm, you're right.  We should construct a system that programs people to be selfless and act for the betterment of society and not for their own selfish gains.  If only there was a long standing system that could be in place to help teach people to do that.
 
2014-01-31 10:13:09 AM
That's what Jesus would want.

i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-31 10:15:08 AM

orclover: DubtodaIll: orclover: [singlepayernow.net image 240x240]
Single Payer, its what Jesus would want you farking idiots.

Jesus would have doctors treat the sick for the glory of God not for the money.

Baby steps.

Hey remember when the Hippocratic oath actually meant something?  I hear they dont even do that any more.   Health Care Professional should be a calling, not a get rich job.  Same with Cops and Firemen.  These three groups should be our super hero's, a title that commands respect just for their sacrifice should be Doctor.  Instead its a guy that hands out scrips for boner pills and painkillers.  Legal drug dealers who you pray doesn't accidentally kill you during surgery.

If not for all the porn I would really really hate this century.


None of the centuries where toilet paper is common are all that bad.
 
2014-01-31 10:15:09 AM

YixilTesiphon: uttertosh: YixilTesiphon: Well, you have to make an awful lot of money to have a net tax rate of 32% unless you live in California or New York.

I have no idea what that means. Are you saying that one's wage must be high in order to compensate for that high a tax?

No, but the income tax you pay the national government depends on your income, this is for a single person in 2013:
[b-i.forbesimg.com image 583x269]
I'm saying that you have to have a high wage to fit into the bracket where you get taxed anything like 32%.

Every state has a different (in a few cases, like Texas, none) income tax, and as others have mentioned there's property, sales, etc taxes at local and state levels.


If we're talking about just federal income taxes, nobody pays a net 32%. Fire your accountant if that happens to you.  You're probably getting screwed in a lot more ways than you realize.

But if you take all your taxes -- payroll taxes, state income taxes, local property taxes, sales taxes, various fees, etc., -- it's not hard to get to 32%.

With that said, I have absolutely no idea what uttertosh  meant when he said, "Even although I'm taxed 32% as a single man".  That just doesn't make any type of sense.
 
2014-01-31 10:15:18 AM

uttertosh: YixilTesiphon: Well, you have to make an awful lot of money to have a net tax rate of 32% unless you live in California or New York.

I have no idea what that means. Are you saying that one's wage must be high in order to compensate for that high a tax?


All the states have different state income tax rates depending on how much they wan to spend and how they balance out sales tax, property tax (a percentage of your home value), and income tax. So a lot of people just look at the Federal Income Tax Rate, while ignoring State Taxes and Medicare and Social Security Payments (which also come out of your paycheck but aren't, strictly, taxes).

The Federal Income Tax rates are based off your income after it is adjusted for a whole heap of exemptions, deductions and allowances. For example you can deduct any mortgage interest from your income for the purpose of calculating how much tax you pay, and if you have a kid in daycare you can deduct a credit from the total tax bill.

The top Federal Income Tax rate is 39.6% and only applies to payroll income over $406,750, so to have an total tax rate of 32% you would have to have an annual income from their job somewhere in the region of a million bucks and have minimal deductions.
 
2014-01-31 10:16:20 AM

gshepnyc: At some point everyone decided that what they do merits them becoming millionaires. We need doctors. I respect doctors. But let's be real. I grew up in the 1970s. My dad worked in a factory. We had a decent house in a decent neighborhood of a small town and in the same neighborhood lived several of the town's doctors. Their houses maybe were just a little nicer, but more or less the same. Maybe they had a more expensive car or they had a small boat or they took fancier vacations, but they weren't millionaires and they still lived pretty well.

Now, the same town, more or less the same population, more or less the same number of doctors, and the younger doctors all live in mcMansions in new, never-before-done-in-our-town gated communities.

It's kind of absurd. And I know it's not all them. It's also hospitals that have to pay dividends to shareholders and that's a big part of the problem, too. But we do have a problem with outlandish expectations of how we should live nowadays.


What you say makes a lot of sense, you know, if anybody could a medical degree from a coupon off a box of breakfast cereal.  But, if I had to do the whole medical school grind, I think I'd want a little compensation for the effort.  The idea of doing all that, and ending up just a smidge better off, than a guy who may not have graduated from high school and spends the day sweeping up on the loading dock, would be kind of stupid.  But, hey, that's just me.
 
2014-01-31 10:20:12 AM

YixilTesiphon: The billed cost for my daughter's delivery and (mostly) her subsequent week-long stay in the ICU out of an abundance of caution was $85,000.

The final cost was $800. I have no idea how that happened.

minoridiot: If we did not start with the list prices we have, we would not end up with enough revenue to remain in operation.

I don't see this changing anytime soon since the same insurance companies and government agencies are still running things.

Exactly, the ACA is a huge boon to the insurance companies and government agencies that have set up this ridiculous system in the first place.


Yeah, but, Obama said you can keep your snake, if you like it.
 
2014-01-31 10:20:45 AM

The Larch: Your fun fact is not just not a fact, it's not even in spitting distance of the possibility of being a fact.


What part are you questioning? You'll note, if you reread my post more carefully, the words "estimate", and "majority".

These terms encompass the following: There are "up to" 20 million people receiving these treatments. It could be less. It almost certainly is, based on the way they collect data.

That the majority of them are on some form of Medicare/medicaid does not mean that 100% of the costs of the care of the entire 20 million are being passed on to the government. IIRC, it's about 54% of that patient pool on some form of MC/MC, and the ones on Care still have to pay (most of the time) a portion themselves.

The $150k is the billed rate- the government health programs pay far, far less than that, as a service provider to Medicare/Medicaid patients knows all too well.

You'll notice (or maybe you didn't) that I never cited a total cost, and for good reason. The math isn't as simple as this times this equals this, there are a huge number of mitigating factors that bring down the total cost figure.While this may lessen the impact of the numbers to a small degree, my point was how ridiculously overinflated costs for end-of-life care have gotten, and we need to be able to let go when quality of life nears zero.

/spent 6 years doing billing for a vascular surgery practice, I've seen the numbers from patients from all walks of life and situations
//does not anymore, since the whole industry is detestable
 
2014-01-31 10:22:17 AM
fish hook in the thumb last summer cost me $4,200.  Which actually pissed me off.  By the time I got the final bill, I had to pay $100 and my insurance company wrote them a check for $483.  I never understood why insurance companies can get away with paying 10% of a bill while the uninsured will be driven to bankruptcy and not given an inch.
 
2014-01-31 10:24:25 AM

Too Pretty For Prison: fish hook in the thumb last summer cost me $4,200.  Which actually pissed me off.  By the time I got the final bill, I had to pay $100 and my insurance company wrote them a check for $483.  I never understood why insurance companies can get away with paying 10% of a bill while the uninsured will be driven to bankruptcy and not given an inch.


Because they raise that price to skim more money off Medicare/Medicaid.  Seriously, just about every insurance company gets discounts, but government assistance pays full price.

But who cares, as long as the rich get richer, the poor get farked, and the middle class stay scared enough to work those shiatty jobs.
 
2014-01-31 10:24:48 AM

Too Pretty For Prison: fish hook in the thumb last summer cost me $4,200.  Which actually pissed me off.  By the time I got the final bill, I had to pay $100 and my insurance company wrote them a check for $483.  I never understood why insurance companies can get away with paying 10% of a bill while the uninsured will be driven to bankruptcy and not given an inch.


skreened.com
 
2014-01-31 10:25:32 AM
That's why you wait for happy hour, guys.

guinnesspours.net
 
2014-01-31 10:28:32 AM

zimbomba63: gshepnyc: At some point everyone decided that what they do merits them becoming millionaires. We need doctors. I respect doctors. But let's be real. I grew up in the 1970s. My dad worked in a factory. We had a decent house in a decent neighborhood of a small town and in the same neighborhood lived several of the town's doctors. Their houses maybe were just a little nicer, but more or less the same. Maybe they had a more expensive car or they had a small boat or they took fancier vacations, but they weren't millionaires and they still lived pretty well.

Now, the same town, more or less the same population, more or less the same number of doctors, and the younger doctors all live in mcMansions in new, never-before-done-in-our-town gated communities.

It's kind of absurd. And I know it's not all them. It's also hospitals that have to pay dividends to shareholders and that's a big part of the problem, too. But we do have a problem with outlandish expectations of how we should live nowadays.

What you say makes a lot of sense, you know, if anybody could a medical degree from a coupon off a box of breakfast cereal.  But, if I had to do the whole medical school grind, I think I'd want a little compensation for the effort.  The idea of doing all that, and ending up just a smidge better off, than a guy who may not have graduated from high school and spends the day sweeping up on the loading dock, would be kind of stupid.  But, hey, that's just me.


Funnily enough, that's how it works in most of the developed world.  Of course, medical school doesn't involve going into debt a quarter million in the rest of the developed world, nor is class disparity anywhere near as extreme...
 
2014-01-31 10:29:01 AM

grinding_journalist: What part are you questioning? You'll note, if you reread my post more carefully, the words "estimate", and "majority".

These terms encompass the following: There are "up to" 20 million people receiving these treatments. It could be less. It almost certainly is, based on the way they collect data...The $150k is the billed rate- the government health programs pay far, far less than that, as a service provider to Medicare/Medicaid patients knows all too well.


Well, then, why didn't you just say "as many as 50 gazilliion people might have super AIDS, and each case may be billed for up to 37 tetra-billion dollars a year."  It would have been just as factual as  your bullshiat.

Look, if you want to spread flat out lies and pretend like they're truths because careful parsing shows that you didn't actually didn't make any claims at all, go for it. It's a free country.  But don't whine like a little baby when you get called on it.
 
2014-01-31 10:32:15 AM

orclover: DubtodaIll: orclover: [singlepayernow.net image 240x240]
Single Payer, its what Jesus would want you farking idiots.

Jesus would have doctors treat the sick for the glory of God not for the money.

Baby steps.

Hey remember when the Hippocratic oath actually meant something?  I hear they dont even do that any more.   Health Care Professional should be a calling, not a get rich job.  Same with Cops and Firemen.  These three groups should be our super hero's, a title that commands respect just for their sacrifice should be Doctor.  Instead its a guy that hands out scrips for boner pills and painkillers.  Legal drug dealers who you pray doesn't accidentally kill you during surgery.

If not for all the porn I would really really hate this century.


And teachers should be paid minimum wage, because they're doing it for the children.
 
2014-01-31 10:32:20 AM

zimbomba63: What you say makes a lot of sense, you know, if anybody could a medical degree from a coupon off a box of breakfast cereal.  But, if I had to do the whole medical school grind, I think I'd want a little compensation for the effort.  The idea of doing all that, and ending up just a smidge better off, than a guy who may not have graduated from high school and spends the day sweeping up on the loading dock, would be kind of stupid.  But, hey, that's just me.


No one is saying they shouldn't be better off, but the question is just how much better off they should be. According to the BLS the MEDIAN "physicians and surgeons" wage is $187,000 per year.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.htm

The median wage in the US is sitting at something like $34K. The median wage for college educated people is something like $55K. The median wage for people with doctorates (not doctors) is about $84K per year.

Is the median doctor really worth 2.2 times more than the median doctorate?

http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm

What about engineers? Chemical engineers make a median wage of $90K. Computer scientists and engineers make a median wage of $84K. Mechanical engineers make a median wage of $78K.

Is the median doctor really worth twice as much as the median engineer?

http://www.mtu.edu/engineering/outreach/welcome/salary/

No one is saying that doctors shouldn't be compensated well for what they do, but how much do they really need? They make exorbitant amounts more than average college educated people, even the traditionally high-paying occupations. They make way more than average people with doctoral degrees, who usually have about as much time invested in their education as a doctor would (median time to graduation is typically another 4.5-5.5 years depending on field of study).
 
2014-01-31 10:33:43 AM
zimbomba63:What you say makes a lot of sense, you know, if anybody could a medical degree from a coupon off a box of breakfast cereal.  But, if I had to do the whole medical school grind, I think I'd want a little compensation for the effort.  The idea of doing all that, and ending up just a smidge better off, than a guy who may not have graduated from high school and spends the day sweeping up on the loading dock, would be kind of stupid.  But, hey, that's just me.

This would be a better argument if medical schools didn't gate the number of applicants, artificially restricting the number of people available to be doctors.
 
2014-01-31 10:36:28 AM

Fubini: No one is saying that doctors shouldn't be compensated well for what they do, but how much do they really need?


Also, bear in mind that the median doctor isn't a neurosurgeon who works wonders. The median doctor sees the same types of patients over and over and over all day. It's not a particularly creative or demanding process.
 
2014-01-31 10:37:17 AM

give me doughnuts: Universal single-payer.

NOW!


How would that have reduced the cost? It would have just changed who pays. Your argument makes no sense.
 
2014-01-31 10:39:32 AM
The underlying problem is healthcare is not a market.  Everybody is either spending someone else's money or they're doing everything they can to try to avoid paying what they're supposed to (eg. insurance companies trying to deny benefits).

What I find shocking is how people have come to accept these kinds of hospital pricing discrepancies as par for the course.  People would be livid if a car dealership charged between $9,000 and $90,000 for the same vehicle depending on who's paying.  Why are they not similarly angry with hospitals?  Because by and large, they're spending someone else's money.  Once a procedure is sufficiently expensive that your particular out-of-pocket deductible is met, you don't really care whether the hospital charges your insurance company $20k and while it charges the insurance company of the guy in the room next to yours only $10k for the same procedure.

Laws forcing hospitals to post up-front prices for common procedures is perhaps a step in the right direction but I'm too cynical to think that it'll make much difference.
 
2014-01-31 10:39:46 AM

DubtodaIll: orclover: DubtodaIll: orclover: [singlepayernow.net image 240x240]
Single Payer, its what Jesus would want you farking idiots.

Jesus would have doctors treat the sick for the glory of God not for the money.

Baby steps.

Hey remember when the Hippocratic oath actually meant something?  I hear they dont even do that any more.   Health Care Professional should be a calling, not a get rich job.  Same with Cops and Firemen.  These three groups should be our super hero's, a title that commands respect just for their sacrifice should be Doctor.  Instead its a guy that hands out scrips for boner pills and painkillers.  Legal drug dealers who you pray doesn't accidentally kill you during surgery.

If not for all the porn I would really really hate this century.

Hmm, you're right.  We should construct a system that programs people to be selfless and act for the betterment of society and not for their own selfish gains.  If only there was a long standing system that could be in place to help teach people to do that.


They just have to watch the ants and the bees.  Work until you die.  There is no rest, no pleasure, nothing, because individually you count as nothing.  You live only to serve the hive.  There's your "program".
 
2014-01-31 10:40:23 AM

Fubini: Fubini: No one is saying that doctors shouldn't be compensated well for what they do, but how much do they really need?

Also, bear in mind that the median doctor isn't a neurosurgeon who works wonders. The median doctor sees the same types of patients over and over and over all day. It's not a particularly creative or demanding process.


Also, don't miss this gem on the BLS page for physicians:

"Wages for physicians and surgeons are among the highest of all occupations. According to the Medical Group Management Association's Physician Compensation and Production Survey, median total compensation for physicians varied with their type of practice. In 2012, physicians practicing primary care received total median annual compensation of $220,942 and physicians practicing in medical specialties received total median annual compensation of $396,233."

That means the guy you see when you have the sniffles has a median income of $221K, and the specialist you see has a median income just shy of $400K.
 
2014-01-31 10:43:49 AM

The Larch: Well, then, why didn't you just say "as many as 50 gazilliion people might have super AIDS, and each case may be billed for up to 37 tetra-billion dollars a year."  It would have been just as factual as  your bullshiat.


Aside from the fact that super aids is fictional and ESRD is real, and tetra billion isn't a real number while 150,000 is, then yes. (I can be obtuse too!) And the reality is, some of those people ARE costing the government $150,000/yr for that care, and some are costing much, much more than that.

You keep intentionally missing my point. My point, again, as I've said twice now, isn't the number itself, it's the fact that humans can't get over the idea that life has to be extended as far as possible at all costs, and that's just flat out wrong. Would it weaken my argument to say that those costs were only $50,000/year? $10,000? No, because my point remains the same, and you seem to be having trouble grasping this.

You undoubtedly want to miss this point again, and that's fine, but explaining it three times is enough for me.
 
2014-01-31 10:47:49 AM
www.totalwine.com www.drinkswap.com img2.timeinc.net
 
Displayed 50 of 157 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report