Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Medium)   Is running up an inclined treadmill the same, physically, as running up an actual mountain? Here's what science has to say. But it *still* doesn't explain the roller skater from the Michael Jackson "Bad" video   (medium.com) divider line 71
    More: Cool, physics, center of the Earth, metabolic rates, gravity, ScienceBlogs  
•       •       •

3875 clicks; posted to Geek » on 31 Jan 2014 at 12:18 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



71 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-01-30 09:27:52 PM  
Without the change in altitude, of course not.

Plus, there's not downhill slope on the treadmill, so half the activity is already erased.

Additionally, if you fall and break your leg at the gym, someone will be by to help you. Not so on the lonely mountain.

Not to mention rocks and uneven terrain on the mountain.

And the only cougar attacks you need to worry about at the gym come from sexy ladies in too-tight yoga pants.
 
2014-01-30 09:59:16 PM  
What's a gym?
 
2014-01-30 10:11:29 PM  
When you exercise and then stop, your body doesn't know that it's okay for your heart to slow down for quite some time.

Umm, no. If you're in decent shape your heart rate should quickly return to normal. The whole article...well, as far as I read, is bullshiatty.
 
2014-01-30 10:15:04 PM  
Perhaps it's because I'm a girl and math is hard, but I've never understood how walking/running On a treadmill is anywhere near as energy intensive as awing/running on solid ground. It seems like the treadmill is doing part of the work for you, assisting your push-away. Am I anywhere in the general vicinity of right?
 
2014-01-30 10:18:09 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Perhaps it's because I'm a girl and math is hard, but I've never understood how walking/running On a treadmill is anywhere near as energy intensive as awing/running on solid ground. It seems like the treadmill is doing part of the work for you, assisting your push-away. Am I anywhere in the general vicinity of right?


You're a girl??

I totally have you labelled inappropriately.
 
2014-01-30 10:18:50 PM  
"Some motherfarkers are always trying to ice skate uphill."

www.zap2it.com
 
2014-01-30 10:21:09 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: awing/running on solid ground


'attention whoring' on solid ground... made me snerk.
 
2014-01-30 10:43:06 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Perhaps it's because I'm a girl and math is hard, but I've never understood how walking/running On a treadmill is anywhere near as energy intensive as awing/running on solid ground. It seems like the treadmill is doing part of the work for you, assisting your push-away. Am I anywhere in the general vicinity of right?


I'd assume it's a little like the same principle as the article: it's the work done, not the net result, that matters.

In this case, if you didn't keep walking, the treadmill would be moving you backwards.  So, in a sense, that is the frame of reference.  The action you do to push off of it is to negate that rearward motion and keep steady.  If the treadmill stopped, the same amount of effort would propel you forward.

The only way I can see it being more efficient on the treadmill is if you're walking perfectly steady, so that your upper body isn't really moving anywhere.  That should theoretically reduce some of the effort needed, since all you're doing is moving your legs.  When you're actually walking, you're also moving your body, so there's a slight amount of wind resistance and possibly other forces at play (though it may be negligible).

However, the actual "push" at your feet would be no different.
 
2014-01-30 11:22:47 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Benevolent Misanthrope: Perhaps it's because I'm a girl and math is hard, but I've never understood how walking/running On a treadmill is anywhere near as energy intensive as awing/running on solid ground. It seems like the treadmill is doing part of the work for you, assisting your push-away. Am I anywhere in the general vicinity of right?

You're a girl??

I totally have you labelled inappropriately.


My imagination is running riot.
 
2014-01-30 11:57:42 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: AverageAmericanGuy: Benevolent Misanthrope: Perhaps it's because I'm a girl and math is hard, but I've never understood how walking/running On a treadmill is anywhere near as energy intensive as awing/running on solid ground. It seems like the treadmill is doing part of the work for you, assisting your push-away. Am I anywhere in the general vicinity of right?

You're a girl??

I totally have you labelled inappropriately.

My imagination is running riot.


Don't worry, honey. I've fixed it now.
 
2014-01-30 11:58:15 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Benevolent Misanthrope: AverageAmericanGuy: Benevolent Misanthrope: Perhaps it's because I'm a girl and math is hard, but I've never understood how walking/running On a treadmill is anywhere near as energy intensive as awing/running on solid ground. It seems like the treadmill is doing part of the work for you, assisting your push-away. Am I anywhere in the general vicinity of right?

You're a girl??

I totally have you labelled inappropriately.

My imagination is running riot.

Don't worry, honey. I've fixed it now.


Do I even want to know?
 
2014-01-31 12:04:59 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: AverageAmericanGuy: Benevolent Misanthrope: AverageAmericanGuy: Benevolent Misanthrope: Perhaps it's because I'm a girl and math is hard, but I've never understood how walking/running On a treadmill is anywhere near as energy intensive as awing/running on solid ground. It seems like the treadmill is doing part of the work for you, assisting your push-away. Am I anywhere in the general vicinity of right?

You're a girl??

I totally have you labelled inappropriately.

My imagination is running riot.

Don't worry, honey. I've fixed it now.

Do I even want to know?


Benevolent Misanthrope <totalfark> Favorite: Kinda effeminate sometimes
 
2014-01-31 12:07:18 AM  
Is being able to OK Go on a treadmill the same as being able to dance?
 
2014-01-31 12:15:40 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Benevolent Misanthrope <totalfark> Favorite: Kinda effeminate sometimes


In a Patsy Stone kind of way usually.
 
2014-01-31 12:20:54 AM  
If I only could be running up that hill... with no problems.
 
2014-01-31 12:33:37 AM  
If you have your treadmill on an incline, you do need to lift your foot higher in order to have it land on the inclined surface.  So while you may not be excreting force to raise your body's elevation, you are doing some additional work.

If you really wanted to emulate walking up a mountain, I imagine that strapping some light weights to your body while having the treadmill set to incline might do it.  I have also seen weights you can strap around your ankle that might target those muscles further.
 
2014-01-31 12:37:01 AM  

Dinjiin: excreting exerting force


FTFM

/I just had a bad image of Yoda doing a #2.
 
2014-01-31 12:39:10 AM  

obenchainr: Benevolent Misanthrope:...

...

The only way I can see it being more efficient on the treadmill is if you're walking perfectly steady, so that your upper body isn't really moving anywhere.  That should theoretically reduce some of the effort needed, since all you're doing is moving your legs.  When you're actually walking, you're also moving your body, so there's a slight amount of wind resistance and possibly other forces at play (though it may be negligible).

However, the actual "push" at your feet would be no different.



The hand-rail could make a difference, if they use it for holding onto, instead of just for checking their pulse.  They shouldn't, but some probably do.
 
2014-01-31 01:08:59 AM  

Dinjiin: If you have your treadmill on an incline, you do need to lift your foot higher in order to have it land on the inclined surface.  So while you may not be excreting force to raise your body's elevation, you are doing some additional work.

If you really wanted to emulate walking up a mountain, I imagine that strapping some light weights to your body while having the treadmill set to incline might do it.  I have also seen weights you can strap around your ankle that might target those muscles further.


I'm no expert workin' out guy or anything, but I'm pretty sure they figured out a while back that wearing weights in the wrong place (like ankles and wrist) while working out will separate the joints and do all sorts of damage. Won't do much harm in the short term, but if it becomes part of your normal routine over years it can really mess some stuff up.

I don't think extra weight pushing down on you from like a pack or a belt is as bad, but it still causes extra stress on the knees ankles and spine. I've heard dudes that were in the military say carrying those heavy packs farked some shiat up.

And supposedly doing situps can screw up your back, jogging can mess up the knees, or you can choke on ice-cream while avoiding all the repetitive motion injuries involved with exercising (plus carpal tunnel from holding the spoon!). I guess my point is...I don't know. I wonder what's on tv.
 
2014-01-31 01:12:29 AM  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SUzcDUERLo

Rocky 4 training montage with Rocky running up the snowy mountain while Drago runs on the treadmill in that evil red Soviet light was first thing that came to my mind

\Drago!  Draaagggoooo!
 
2014-01-31 01:25:34 AM  
obenchainr:  However, the actual "push" at your feet would be no different.

Suspect you don't run much. There is a major difference - the treadmill is far more passive. There is virtually no balance correction involved. Running on/off road is far more intensive.

/will push 40 minutes on a treadmill to achieve the same warm up as a 20 minute jog around the block.
 
2014-01-31 01:40:42 AM  
Walking upright is so overrated. Since I started crab walking everywhere my abs have been better than ever.
 
2014-01-31 01:46:22 AM  
My favorite are the people that are walking on a steep incline, but are holding on and leaning back, thus removing the incline.  Let go and I bet you won't last long at your current speed on that 15% grade you have set up there.

And yes, running on a treadmill is easier than running out in the world.  So is cycling on a stationary bike.  The whole point is to raise your heart rate, not give an equavalient workout.

I also like the people that go as fast as they possibly can on an eliptical or bike.  Instead of looking like a complete fool, just increase the resistance.  You're not impressing anyone.
 
2014-01-31 01:50:00 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Perhaps it's because I'm a girl and math is hard, but I've never understood how walking/running On a treadmill is anywhere near as energy intensive as awing/running on solid ground. It seems like the treadmill is doing part of the work for you, assisting your push-away. Am I anywhere in the general vicinity of right?


Yes, you are exactly right, actually (as far as running goes, at least). Runners are supposed to incline the treadmill a certain amount in order to compensate for what you are talking about. The incline also prevents a runner from bounding higher on each stride (almost like jumping), which leads to an inaccurate measure of both speed and distance run.
 
2014-01-31 01:51:12 AM  
Now I want to put on my rollerskates and find a treadmill to see how inclined/fast I'd have to crank it to remain 'neutrally buoyant' on the belt...  Neither rolling off the end or the top but just kinda coasting in the middle hands off the rails.
 
2014-01-31 01:54:03 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Perhaps it's because I'm a girl and math is hard, but I've never understood how walking/running On a treadmill is anywhere near as energy intensive as awing/running on solid ground. It seems like the treadmill is doing part of the work for you, assisting your push-away. Am I anywhere in the general vicinity of right?


It's been a long time since I needed to know this, but I believe the recommended incline is like 5 or 7 degrees. Could be wrong though, and I'm too tired at the moment to go rummaging through my NSCA journals to find out for sure.
 
2014-01-31 02:05:21 AM  

Marmilman: Benevolent Misanthrope: Perhaps it's because I'm a girl and math is hard, but I've never understood how walking/running On a treadmill is anywhere near as energy intensive as awing/running on solid ground. It seems like the treadmill is doing part of the work for you, assisting your push-away. Am I anywhere in the general vicinity of right?

It's been a long time since I needed to know this, but I believe the recommended incline is like 5 or 7 degrees. Could be wrong though, and I'm too tired at the moment to go rummaging through my NSCA journals to find out for sure.


I last heard 1 degree, which was from some website I read recently because I want to train but it's too damn cold out.

Running on a treadmill incline weirds me out anyway, it feels nothing like a real hill and just screws with my tempo.

/pinnacle of reliable research here
//can't wait for it to thaw outside
 
2014-01-31 02:50:40 AM  

nulluspixiusdemonica: Suspect you don't run much. There is a major difference - the treadmill is far more passive. There is virtually no balance correction involved. Running on/off road is far more intensive.

/will push 40 minutes on a treadmill to achieve the same warm up as a 20 minute jog around the block.


Back when I was an avid runner I would opt for being out in the elements all year round rather than run on a treadmill. It didn't feel right to me, like I was getting no workout at all. That being said I seriously farked up one of my knees a few years ago because of a small pothole -> rolled my ankle but ended up with a misaligned knee cap that swells my joint if I'm too active. :(
 
2014-01-31 03:00:27 AM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Marmilman: Benevolent Misanthrope: Perhaps it's because I'm a girl and math is hard, but I've never understood how walking/running On a treadmill is anywhere near as energy intensive as awing/running on solid ground. It seems like the treadmill is doing part of the work for you, assisting your push-away. Am I anywhere in the general vicinity of right?

It's been a long time since I needed to know this, but I believe the recommended incline is like 5 or 7 degrees. Could be wrong though, and I'm too tired at the moment to go rummaging through my NSCA journals to find out for sure.

I last heard 1 degree, which was from some website I read recently because I want to train but it's too damn cold out.

Running on a treadmill incline weirds me out anyway, it feels nothing like a real hill and just screws with my tempo.

/pinnacle of reliable research here
//can't wait for it to thaw outside


I've always hated treadmills for similar reasons. I've never been a fan of LSD running; I'd much rather do intervals, but treadmills aren't very conducive to interval training given how much of a pain in the ass it is to constantly change your pace.
 
2014-01-31 03:04:39 AM  

Tenatra: nulluspixiusdemonica: Suspect you don't run much. There is a major difference - the treadmill is far more passive. There is virtually no balance correction involved. Running on/off road is far more intensive.

/will push 40 minutes on a treadmill to achieve the same warm up as a 20 minute jog around the block.

Back when I was an avid runner I would opt for being out in the elements all year round rather than run on a treadmill. It didn't feel right to me, like I was getting no workout at all. That being said I seriously farked up one of my knees a few years ago because of a small pothole -> rolled my ankle but ended up with a misaligned knee cap that swells my joint if I'm too active. :(


jesus christ. Did you ever do any rehab for your knee?
 
2014-01-31 03:17:57 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Perhaps it's because I'm a girl and math is hard, but I've never understood how walking/running On a treadmill is anywhere near as energy intensive as awing/running on solid ground. It seems like the treadmill is doing part of the work for you, assisting your push-away. Am I anywhere in the general vicinity of right?


I think you are right in some cases, but even so I don't think he is counting that effect.

If we replaced your legs with wheels and stuck you on the treadmill WITH YOUR HANDS GRIPPING THE RAILS, the motorized and rough treadmill would start your wheel legs rotating. So clearly the treadmill belt is doing work on you.

If you let go of the rails and tried to keep up you couldn't unless you started rotating your wheel legs on your own to match the pace of the belt.

If we put your leg legs back on and you were gripping the rail, the belt again applies some of the muscle force you need to rotate your legs back.

I think I realized you were a girl sometime back, about teh same time I realize Average American Guy was also female. Something you both wrote in some long ago thread.
 
2014-01-31 03:36:50 AM  
It seems to me that on the treadmill you're not actually lifting your body with each step. As you take each step your rear foot slides backwards and lower and your front foot raises to compensate. Think about if the treadmill were at a 45º angle. Your body would stay mostly in the same place even as your feet were moving.
 
2014-01-31 03:49:26 AM  
I always had a more difficult time running on the treadmill than on solid ground, assuming weather/temperature/humidity wasn't a factor.  Back when I was relatively in shape, I was doing 3-mile runs in 21-22 minutes on the street, which is about an 8 mph pace, but there's no way in hell I could ever keep anything close to that pace on a treadmill.  At the time, I'd be doing maybe 6.5 on the treadmill with a couple of short intervals to 8, but I couldn't maintain it more than a few minutes.

If you want the full uphill/downhill treadmill action, try running on a ship in high seas, with the treadmill facing perpendicular to the ship's sway.  Also makes doing pull-ups a hell of a lot harder, if you time your pulls when you already have downward momentum from the ship's movement.
 
2014-01-31 03:57:01 AM  
It has its uses....

One of the more underrated '80s movies. But the competition is tight, especially in spandex.
 
2014-01-31 04:44:58 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Perhaps it's because I'm a girl and math is hard, but I've never understood how walking/running On a treadmill is anywhere near as energy intensive as awing/running on solid ground. It seems like the treadmill is doing part of the work for you, assisting your push-away. Am I anywhere in the general vicinity of right?


Nah.  Say you're moving your legs in such a way as to propel your body five miles per hour.  But on a treadmill you're not moving.  That's because the treadmill is doing work on YOU so that you remain still despite the work you're doing propelling your body.
 
2014-01-31 05:40:26 AM  

wax_on: It seems to me that on the treadmill you're not actually lifting your body with each step. As you take each step your rear foot slides backwards and lower and your front foot raises to compensate. Think about if the treadmill were at a 45º angle. Your body would stay mostly in the same place even as your feet were moving.


I was just thinking about this as well but you should remember that you don't keep balanced on your rear foot the whole time. As you run you'll switch your balance to the front foot before that foot gets below your body, thereby still forcing the runner to "lift" him/herself a bit. The amount lifted would be smaller than on a similar stationary incline because the front foot will slide back a bit, but there is some lift.
 
2014-01-31 06:03:53 AM  

Marmilman: jesus christ. Did you ever do any rehab for your knee?


Nope I actually didn't know what was wrong with it until Oct 2012. (I injured it in Summer of 2009). After I farked it up I could barely put any weight on it at all, so my sergeant told me to go to the hospital. So I go drive over to the hospital and get seen by a doc. He looks at it, listens to what I said happened, then tells me to stop at the shoppette on my way back to the dorms and buy some ibuprofen. I didn't get anything to help with the pain, I didn't get xrays to find out what was wrong with it, I didn't even get a waiver excusing me from PT.

It hurt like hell to just walk and then there was this man-lady biatch sergeant in our shop that told me I would be taking part in PT or else she would see to it that I'm given paperwork. This woman couldn't run to save her life (and walked the whole duration of our organized pt sessions) but there she is accusing me of trying to skip out on PT myself - When much of my free time was devoted to running, hiking, and biking. Goddammit... so I had to continue attempting to run, every time my right foot touched the ground it'd send a sharp pain through my leg. I bought a brace for it but the swelling made it feel much worse with the brace on. Luckily I was being given a discharge and shortly thereafter I was moved out of my squadron to do menial tasks until it finally went through a couple months later.

Fast forward to Oct 2012. I had a Compensation and Pension evaluation where a doc got to look at my knee, she could clearly see something wrong with it just by my inability to balance properly on my right leg, as well as how it moves as I walk. She ordered xrays and saw the misaligned kneecap along with degenerative wear (the misaligned knee cap has been grinding against the grooves which is where the pain and swelling were coming from). It is now a service connected disability that the VA pays me for monthly.
 
2014-01-31 06:15:23 AM  

aerojockey: Benevolent Misanthrope: Perhaps it's because I'm a girl and math is hard, but I've never understood how walking/running On a treadmill is anywhere near as energy intensive as awing/running on solid ground. It seems like the treadmill is doing part of the work for you, assisting your push-away. Am I anywhere in the general vicinity of right?

Nah.  Say you're moving your legs in such a way as to propel your body five miles per hour.  But on a treadmill you're not moving.  That's because the treadmill is doing work on YOU so that you remain still despite the work you're doing propelling your body.


Right. Supposing the treadmill belt was actually miles long and oriented at the same angle and you were running on it at that speed. As long as you keep your arms off the rails, then you are performing exactly the same physical motions. The only differences are that you're not fighting the resistance of the air or the Earth's magnetic field, but those are really small effects.
 
2014-01-31 07:07:13 AM  
The more important question I have:  Do the people who jack the incline up but then lay their arms on top of the machine get the extra benefit?  I see this very often at the gym.
 
2014-01-31 07:23:11 AM  
Is this topic trying to discourage me from doing walks on my treadmill?
 
2014-01-31 07:59:34 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Perhaps it's because I'm a girl and math is hard, but I've never understood how walking/running On a treadmill is anywhere near as energy intensive as awing/running on solid ground. It seems like the treadmill is doing part of the work for you, assisting your push-away. Am I anywhere in the general vicinity of right?


I'm in Ottawa and I aw/run about 100km/month. When it's -25 out, which has been often this winter, many of those km are run in the gym on a treadmill.

I use a heart rate monitor so my measure of exertion isn't just my perception.

I run at 1% incline and the effort level is about the same as running outdoors on a decent sidewalk or pathway.

Increasing the incline significantly increases the difficulty.

Running on a treadmill is easier from a technical perspective because the footing is always good, there are no traffic lights or cars, no dog poop, no potholes. However I find it much more difficult from a mental perspective because it's eye-searingly boring.

I keep forgetting you're a girl but I don't make a note because the subject comes up every now and then and I'm surprised all over again...I'm easily amused.
 
2014-01-31 08:17:24 AM  

Marmilman: Benevolent Misanthrope: Perhaps it's because I'm a girl and math is hard, but I've never understood how walking/running On a treadmill is anywhere near as energy intensive as awing/running on solid ground. It seems like the treadmill is doing part of the work for you, assisting your push-away. Am I anywhere in the general vicinity of right?

It's been a long time since I needed to know this, but I believe the recommended incline is like 5 or 7 degrees. Could be wrong though, and I'm too tired at the moment to go rummaging through my NSCA journals to find out for sure.


Back when I was doing the "need to be at the gym in 25 minutes" thing, the standard treadmill setting to simulate the wind resistance of running outdoors on a flat surface was agreed to be about 2 degrees.
 
2014-01-31 08:35:04 AM  

Dinjiin: Dinjiin: excreting exerting force

FTFM

/I just had a bad image of Yoda doing a #2.


Do or do not, there is not dry poo.

The runs have you do?

...those are both god awful, I just can't think of anything better. And the mental image of gods squatting down going eeeeedeeergh wasn't as snappy.
 
2014-01-31 09:27:26 AM  
Not this shiat again. Please stay in school folks, at least long enough to study some basic physics. Understand that your being stationary with respect to the ground while on a treadmill is irrelevant.
 
2014-01-31 09:40:23 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Perhaps it's because I'm a girl and math is hard, but I've never understood how walking/running On a treadmill is anywhere near as energy intensive as awing/running on solid ground. It seems like the treadmill is doing part of the work for you, assisting your push-away. Am I anywhere in the general vicinity of right?


No. You're nowhere close to right. Imagine a very long treadmill, say a mile long. You stand still and it moves you towards the back. Once you're moving you can close your eyes and you'd have no idea that the treadmill is even on other than a bit of wind. You have to walk normally at the speed of the belt to stay still with respect to the ground. From a math point of view it is exactly like running on that same very long treadmill with it turned off.
 
2014-01-31 09:53:12 AM  
AverageAmericanGuy:

... there's not downhill slope on the treadmill, so half the activity is already erased.

... rocks and uneven terrain on the mountain.


I call B.S. on the article. If the forces mentioned in the article were the only factors involved then walking downhill would be easier than walking uphill. I have hiked up and down a mountain and I can assure you that walking down a mountain is harder than walking on level ground. There is uneven terrain, balance, watching your footing, etc.

The physics definition "work" is more or less defined as getting from point A to point B it's not really that much different than a measure of distance. So the author even goes on to say that walking and running are the same damn thing. Which we all know isn't true. To put it in science terms, it's only one part of the equation for a complex system.

/also: the rollerskate guy was moonwalking and the video was played in reverse. Is that rocket science?
 
2014-01-31 10:00:17 AM  
No, it is not.  There is FAR less chance you destroy your ankles on the treadmill.
 
2014-01-31 10:04:48 AM  
Can we all just agree that running on a treadmill will never physically/mentally equal the benefits you get from running outside? The sense of accomplishment after a long run outside will always overtake the same mileage on a treadmill. Additionally, you're more "on point" mentally when you run outside so you don't break you ankle in a pothole, get hit by a car, etc. It's so easy to zone out on the treadmill and almost forget you're running (other than sweating your ass off inside).

The only benefit I've found on treadmill vs outside is weather related. The cold isn't an issue, but it's difficult/dangerous to run outside when it's icy. Especially when people can't be bothered to shovel their sidewalks. At least I know I won't slip when running at the gym.
 
2014-01-31 10:04:54 AM  
going to the gym in 20 min ...
 
2014-01-31 10:34:16 AM  
TL;DR

Is it or not?
 
Displayed 50 of 71 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report