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(NL Times (Netherlands))   Shutting off highway lights overnight to cut electricity bills actually costs more than it saves because contractors need to manually light up all the extra accident scenes. Who knew?   (nltimes.nl) divider line 120
    More: Obvious, electricity, street lights, accidents  
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4955 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jan 2014 at 8:21 PM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-30 08:21:34 PM
LEAN at its best. "We can save X by doing Y!!!"

Later, you discover "Y" costs 5 times as much.
 
2014-01-30 08:24:48 PM
Someone knew. That someone likely protested, and if he was lucky he was simply ignored instead of demoted or fired or something.
 
2014-01-30 08:26:12 PM
I don't know how things work over in Europe, but in the US construction crews and emergency workers use extra utility lighting regardless of the street lights.
 
2014-01-30 08:28:08 PM

big pig peaches: I don't know how things work over in Europe, but in the US construction crews and emergency workers use extra utility lighting regardless of the street lights.


I think the headline is implying that the cost of the energy used by the investigation scene lighting outweighs the cost of the energy of the highway lights, because there are so many more accidents than before.
 
2014-01-30 08:29:17 PM

big pig peaches: I don't know how things work over in Europe, but in the US construction crews and emergency workers use extra utility lighting regardless of the street lights.


You pretty much have to. The 8-12 lux of highway lighting is enough to guide a vehicle down a road, but not enough to see anything well enough to do real work.

/hooray I'm the Fark expert in a thread for once
 
2014-01-30 08:29:42 PM

miniflea: Someone knew.


Who didn't know?

This shiat is obvious.  I hate driving dark stretches of highway.  They pull this even in NYC.

And another thing...don't turn off your daylight running lights, you clowns! Your white/silver/black car goes into stealth mode in certain lighting conditions, especially with precipitation or fog.
 
2014-01-30 08:30:23 PM
Pfffft, Netherland, that's not really even a place, is it, since Michael Jackson died?
 
2014-01-30 08:31:16 PM
www.technorise.co.in

Problem solved.
 
2014-01-30 08:33:24 PM
Well obviously you want to shut them off at night; it would be stupid to shut them off during the day when there is far more traffic.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-01-30 08:33:45 PM
If the cost for labor and temporary lights comes out of somebody else's budget, it's still a win for the lighting division of the highway agency.
 
2014-01-30 08:34:35 PM
How much does it cost to post billboards that read "Turn on Your Goddamn Headlights at Night"
 
2014-01-30 08:36:13 PM
They pulled this in here in Maryland. Scared the shiat out of me driving home from work in a snowstorm with no street lights.
 
2014-01-30 08:36:21 PM
Only morons need streetlights at night, and then only in residential areas.
 
2014-01-30 08:36:40 PM
Well at least they have windmills to keep them cool.
 
2014-01-30 08:40:02 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Only morons need streetlights at night, and then only in residential areas.


Well with no natural predators to thin the herd we like 90% morans now.
 
2014-01-30 08:40:40 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Only morons need streetlights at night, and then only in residential areas.


Morons, and people who don't want their cars run into by morons.  So, everyone.
 
2014-01-30 08:41:15 PM

Enigmamf: because there are so many more accidents than before.


TFA says no such thing about accident numbers - only that people (old folks in particular) are biatching about the lack of lighting.

As somebody who drives to work in the pre-dawn hours, I can't farking stand most street lighting. There's way too much of it and most of it is terribly designed. I thought the idea was to improve visibility, not blind me. Shine the farking light down on the road, not into my eyes.

I can see a hell of a lot better with just the headlights, without all that extraneous sideways lighting making me hinky.

And when it's foggy out? That's what the white line on the side of the road is for. It's called a FOG LINE, chrissakes. If you can't see anything else you can follow the fog line, long as you don't drive like a jackass.

Don't get me started on the traffic lights that turn red at empty intersections with nobody around in a two-mile radius.
 
2014-01-30 08:41:49 PM

fusillade762: [www.technorise.co.in image 360x360]

Problem solved.


well...  On average I guess.
 
2014-01-30 08:42:01 PM
Question for Cecil Adams: Why do we never see people changing out the lightbulbs? I'm sure it doesn't take long, but there are lots of lights, so you should expect to see a crew out somewhere at some time. Just like you never saw people collecting money from payphones.
 
2014-01-30 08:44:16 PM
We waste an enormous amount of money on streetlights. I really dislike light pollution in general...

Glad to see at least one country moving in the right direction on that.
 
2014-01-30 08:46:11 PM

12349876: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Only morons need streetlights at night, and then only in residential areas.

Morons, and people who don't want their cars run into by morons.  So, everyone.


I bet you turn your hazards on when it rains
 
2014-01-30 08:46:38 PM

desertfool: LEAN at its best. "We can save X by doing Y!!!"

Later, you discover "Y" costs 5 times as much.


fightclub.jpg
 
2014-01-30 08:47:40 PM
Not to mention the extra accidents.
 
2014-01-30 08:48:44 PM

JohnnyC: We waste an enormous amount of money on streetlights. I really dislike light pollution in general...
Glad to see at least one country moving in the right direction on that.


Maybe you can move to Best Korea!
 
2014-01-30 08:50:15 PM

Enigmamf: big pig peaches: I don't know how things work over in Europe, but in the US construction crews and emergency workers use extra utility lighting regardless of the street lights.

I think the headline is implying that the cost of the energy used by the investigation scene lighting outweighs the cost of the energy of the highway lights, because there are so many more accidents than before.


The article says it is the cost of contractors who have to come out to turn the lights on. Just give rescue workers the ability to turn the lights on. Problem solved.
 
2014-01-30 08:50:38 PM
so they have more accidents than lights ?
 
2014-01-30 08:52:44 PM

SlothB77: Not to mention the extra accidents.


If those guys weren't lazy 0bamaphone welfare moochers they could afford more lights on their cars.
 
2014-01-30 08:52:55 PM

12349876: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Only morons need streetlights at night, and then only in residential areas.

Morons, and people who don't want their cars run into by morons.  So, everyone.


I find streetlights handy in spotting morons walking in the street at night, so as to not run them over and have to wash their blood off my truck.

Also, installing more lighting around all places at night in a crime busy city is helpful in somewhat deterring crime.  It doesn't really stop it, but at least you can watch the crooks killing someone.
 
2014-01-30 08:53:54 PM
"According to Rijkswaterstaat, the contractors assigned to manually switch on highway lights are asking for hefty fees."


For those who didn't read TFA, it says the cost is from contractors who have to MANUALLY turn on the lights if there's an accident. The really gloss over this.... While I think the lights are necessary for safety, the article and the headline are completely misleading, making it sound like just the fact that there are accident crews is where the increased cost comes from.
 
2014-01-30 08:56:23 PM

miniflea: Someone knew. That someone likely protested, and if he was lucky he was simply ignored instead of demoted or fired or something.


Alternately, that someone will be offered up as a scapegoat and thrown to the wolves by the people in charge above him as soon as their stupidity becomes public record.
 
2014-01-30 08:56:31 PM

desertfool: LEAN at its best. "We can save X by doing Y!!!"

Later, you discover "Y" costs 5 times as much.


Y? Y2K!

How much did that cost?

lol

/leker
 
2014-01-30 08:57:10 PM
A lot of the new LED based street lighting can use a part night setup where the lights stay on but dim to about half power after peak hours when there is little traffic. It can save considerable energy without sacrificing safety. With few cars on the road you don't have to compete with the light from all the tail lights.
 
2014-01-30 08:59:15 PM

lack of warmth: Also, installing more lighting around all places at night in a crime busy city is helpful in somewhat deterring crime. It doesn't really stop it, but at least you can watch the crooks killing someone.


Not really.

Much so-called security lighting is designed with little thought for how eyes-or criminals-operate. Marcus Felson, a professor at the School of Criminal Justice at Rutgers University, has concluded that lighting is effective in preventing crime mainly if it enables people to notice criminal activity as it's taking place, and if it doesn't help criminals to see what they're doing. Bright, unshielded floodlights-one of the most common types of outdoor security lighting in the country-often fail on both counts, as do all-night lights installed on isolated structures or on parts of buildings that can't be observed by passersby (such as back doors). A burglar who is forced to use a flashlight, or whose movement triggers a security light controlled by an infrared motion sensor, is much more likely to be spotted than one whose presence is masked by the blinding glare of a poorly placed metal halide "wall pack." In the early seventies, the public-school system in San Antonio, Texas, began leaving many of its school buildings, parking lots, and other property dark at night and found that the no-lights policy not only reduced energy costs but also dramatically cut vandalism.
 
2014-01-30 09:00:18 PM

legion_of_doo: JohnnyC: We waste an enormous amount of money on streetlights. I really dislike light pollution in general...
Glad to see at least one country moving in the right direction on that.

Maybe you can move to Best Korea!


Oh! I get it... if I don't like light pollution than I should move a dictatorship. Such a sharp and clever wit as yours is wasted on the likes of us. You should take that shiat on the road.
 
2014-01-30 09:02:21 PM
I love the consequences of unintended consequences.
 
2014-01-30 09:03:13 PM

Fano: Question for Cecil Adams: Why do we never see people changing out the lightbulbs? I'm sure it doesn't take long, but there are lots of lights, so you should expect to see a crew out somewhere at some time. Just like you never saw people collecting money from payphones.


In most municipalities they are group relamped at set intervals once every few years. The reason being all of the lights are on similar hours so all the lamps are nearing end of life at about the same time. You don't see the crews because it's normally done in the middle of the day when most of us are at work, and you'd have to be out driving around on that one day in 2-4 years that crews are out there.

In downtown and residential areas they will usually spot relamp if someone calls in a failure.
 
2014-01-30 09:03:33 PM

JohnnyC: legion_of_doo: JohnnyC: We waste an enormous amount of money on streetlights. I really dislike light pollution in general...
Glad to see at least one country moving in the right direction on that.

Maybe you can move to Best Korea!

Oh! I get it... if I don't like light pollution than I should move a dictatorship. Such a sharp and clever wit as yours is wasted on the likes of us. You should take that shiat on the road.


I'm just saying they don't have a lot of streetlights there.

Okay, how about rural Montana? is that any better?
 
2014-01-30 09:08:15 PM

fusillade762: Problem solved.


I've seen those installed in built up areas when the buried wiring for the streetlights would need to be dug up. Screw any notions of taking years to pay back on the electric bills, they didn't have to tear up everything. That was a win.
 
2014-01-30 09:09:15 PM

JohnnyC: We waste an enormous amount of money on streetlights. I really dislike light pollution in general...

Glad to see at least one country moving in the right direction on that.


Yeah...can't see the stars at noon because of the stoopid sun!
 
2014-01-30 09:11:52 PM

James10952001: Fano: Question for Cecil Adams: Why do we never see people changing out the lightbulbs? I'm sure it doesn't take long, but there are lots of lights, so you should expect to see a crew out somewhere at some time. Just like you never saw people collecting money from payphones.

In most municipalities they are group relamped at set intervals once every few years. The reason being all of the lights are on similar hours so all the lamps are nearing end of life at about the same time. You don't see the crews because it's normally done in the middle of the day when most of us are at work, and you'd have to be out driving around on that one day in 2-4 years that crews are out there.

In downtown and residential areas they will usually spot relamp if someone calls in a failure.


Group relamping is pretty much what I expected. The big chemical plants in the Kanawha valley of WV do the same thing.

Thanks
 
2014-01-30 09:13:02 PM

Fano: Question for Cecil Adams: Why do we never see people changing out the lightbulbs? I'm sure it doesn't take long, but there are lots of lights, so you should expect to see a crew out somewhere at some time. Just like you never saw people collecting money from payphones.


Because modern bulbs last longer?

Also, the newer ones are easier to change, so it's relatively quick. The tall tower style on the freeway with 5 lights in a cluster... They have those on a pulley system, they drive up, open the hatch, lower the lights and change them, no need for a truck and a cherry picker and traffic barricades.
 
2014-01-30 09:17:42 PM

Hoboclown: How much does it cost to post billboards that read "Turn on Your Goddamn Headlights at Night"



Yeah really.     We don't have streetlights here in the country.    I guess if you don't have them you just get used to it.

Start car.   It's an older one, so turn on lights.   Drive to Uncle Pete's house.

...not hard
 
2014-01-30 09:18:16 PM

Fano: Question for Cecil Adams: Why do we never see people changing out the lightbulbs? I'm sure it doesn't take long, but there are lots of lights, so you should expect to see a crew out somewhere at some time. Just like you never saw people collecting money from payphones.


The aliens have their cloaking device engaged while they change out the bulbs.  They're like illegal immigrants doing work nobody else wants to do, except they have flying saucers.
 
2014-01-30 09:18:59 PM
I guess the simple answer, don't drive in the dark if you can't handle it, didn't occur to all the idiots? oh, right, of course not.

Just think of all the people that live far away from lighted roads, and somehow, magically, make it to their destinations without running into a damn thing. Well, except for deer and other suicidal wildlife.
 
2014-01-30 09:21:02 PM
I must say - leaving France and entering Belgium at night is a joy because of the well-lit highways.
 
2014-01-30 09:21:15 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Only morons need streetlights at night, and then only in residential areas.


Because you rarely see morons on the road driving, you may have a point.
 
2014-01-30 09:21:57 PM

de_Selby: I must say - leaving France and entering Belgium at night is a joy because of the well-lit highways.


Also, you're leaving France.
 
2014-01-30 09:22:08 PM
Gulper Eel:  That's what the white line on the side of the road is for. It's called a FOG LINE, chrissakes.

I learned something new today! Yaaaay.

Don't get me started on the traffic lights that turn red at empty intersections with nobody around in a two-mile radius.

I once watched a cop sit at a red light (T-intersection, probably 3 AM) for almost five minutes because I guess he was trying to be a good example to us, as we were right behind him. Finally he got fed up and made his turn. Apparently that one didn't have a sensor at the time on the side road. I'm so glad I found out about the triggers for those things, through Fark IIRC, because where I live now, you basically have to trip the damn things on purpose to have any hope of getting through some of the traffic lights.
 
2014-01-30 09:22:15 PM
Solution:

1) Install inexpensive downward deflectors on all the streetlights.

2) Replace bulbs with lower-wattage models, since less of the light will be wasted in scatter.

3) Done.

http://www.darksky.org
 
2014-01-30 09:22:35 PM

netcentric: Hoboclown: How much does it cost to post billboards that read "Turn on Your Goddamn Headlights at Night"


Yeah really.     We don't have streetlights here in the country.    I guess if you don't have them you just get used to it.

Start car.   It's an older one, so turn on lights.   Drive to Uncle Pete's house.

...not hard


They also do not have streetlights in the country - only on what I assume you would call an interstate.
 
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