Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(NBC News)   Amanda Knox found guilty of murder...again (link fixed)   (worldnews.nbcnews.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Amanda Knox, found guilty, murders, ebola, West Nile virus  
•       •       •

9480 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jan 2014 at 5:04 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



364 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2014-01-30 05:06:17 PM  
Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.
 
2014-01-30 05:06:56 PM  
And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.
 
2014-01-30 05:07:11 PM  
I'm sure she'll be booking that flight to Rome right now.
 
2014-01-30 05:07:11 PM  
Worst mobile site ever.
 
2014-01-30 05:07:48 PM  
Thanks for the link to NBC's front page! No, don't mind me, Fark.  I'll find my way from here.
 
2014-01-30 05:08:03 PM  
This one doesn't even link to the Amanda Knox case.
 
2014-01-30 05:08:45 PM  
I'd stab her forty times if you know what I mean.

/and I think you do
 
2014-01-30 05:08:55 PM  
I swear I just read that the prosecution did absolutely nothing to change their case this time around, even though their Supreme Court told them to fark off.

If Knox's lawyers appeal it, hopefully when it gets to them this time, they choose to take the prosecution's legal briefs with them to the bathroom, just to save the toilet paper.
 
2014-01-30 05:09:09 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.


No. Americans believe that double jeopardy is wrong, and that if you try someone enough times and get enough do-overs the state will finally make it's case.
 
2014-01-30 05:09:19 PM  

ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.


Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.
 
2014-01-30 05:09:38 PM  
i.chzbgr.com

/go f yourselves, shiatty Italian justice system
 
2014-01-30 05:09:47 PM  
The Italian justice system seems, from an outside observer's viewpoint, to be not only completely incompetent and capricious, but deeply corrupt.
 
2014-01-30 05:09:48 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.


Clearly you haven't paid much attention at all. I'd go in to expansive detail on why this is not only a gross miscarriage of justice but I'm close to clocking out for the day.

Really, there wasn't 1 piece of empirical evidence that could reliably link Amanda Knox to the murder.

/Evidence was she had a fingerprint on a knife she owned in her apartment
//AFAIK wasn't even the murder weapon.
 
2014-01-30 05:10:29 PM  

ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.


I like how the article makes it clear (a couple times) that she doesn't plan on going back.  Is there really anybody reading the article who thinks "OMG, now she has to go back to Italy and go to prison!"

Assuming she really is innocent...I think I'd just kick back and enjoy life as a "wanted murderer in Italy".  Might as well own it.  Of course, I'd be wary of ever traveling out of the country.  Not sure I'd ever trust any other country to NOT pack me up and send me to Italy.
 
2014-01-30 05:10:35 PM  
Does anyone other than the Italians, actually think that the Italian justice system didn't horribly botch the hell out of the entire case?
 
2014-01-30 05:10:36 PM  
so.....go fish ??
 
2014-01-30 05:10:56 PM  
What a farce. Though the person I feel really bad for here is Sollecito -- he's an Italian citizen and can't get away, whereas it'll be a cold day in hell before Knox is extradited. So he's going back to the slammer just so the Italian justice system doesn't have to admit how much they farked up the initial investigation. At this rate, the actual murderer is going to be out in a year or two, whereas Knox and Sollecito are going to be pursued by this for the rest of their natural lives.
 
2014-01-30 05:12:01 PM  

BonesJackson: Thanks for the link to NBC's front page! No, don't mind me, Fark.  I'll find my way from here.


LGT: TEH INTERWEBZ!!!1
 
2014-01-30 05:12:12 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.


I realize there is a difference of opinion from overseas, but I don't get it. This isn't an OJ style case where there is definitive motive. I'd say there is legit reasonable doubt from the details I've heard, and she'd have to be quite the psychopath to have done what they claim. I simply find that unlikely.
 
2014-01-30 05:12:32 PM  

R.A.Danny: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

No. Americans believe that double jeopardy is wrong, and that if you try someone enough times and get enough do-overs the state will finally make it's case.


I do agree that double jeopardy is wrong too. Even during her first trial though media in US was painting her as this innocent saint.

She shouldn't have been retried because of double jeopardy... but she's as guilty as OJ and got off the first time for the same type of reasons.
 
2014-01-30 05:12:42 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.


No, Americans believe that DNA evidence is pretty much the same the wide world over, and even Americans overseas are not immune to leaving DNA evidence behind if they stab someone to death. Or do they believe that Americans can levitate and magically erase DNA where you come from?
 
2014-01-30 05:12:47 PM  

Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.


It seems there is some leeway on that one. Italy will not allow someone to be sent here if they face the death penalty for example, and the US may take umbrage at the double jeopardy in this case.
 
2014-01-30 05:13:00 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.


Truest thing likely to be written in this thread - bravo.
 
2014-01-30 05:13:02 PM  
I still want to know how the cops came to think there was a drug fueled orgy involved. Methinks this sounds like projection of someone's deepest wishes.
 
2014-01-30 05:13:07 PM  
And in other news:

http://www.google.com
 
2014-01-30 05:14:00 PM  

What_do_you_want_now: /Evidence was she had a fingerprint on a knife she owned in her apartment
//AFAIK wasn't even the murder weapon.


It was confirmed to not be the murder weapon. The murder weapon has never been found or presented in the case, as I understand it.

Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.


No, staying the US is her best option, but she can probably never leave. The US is not likely to extradite her simply because she was previously acquitted and to do so would violate our own principles of not allowing double jeopardy. Then you combine that with the extremely weak and mishandled evidence in the case and she's going to be ok staying here.
 
2014-01-30 05:14:11 PM  

Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.


I think there might be a place she could hold up at in Russia.
 
2014-01-30 05:14:33 PM  
Well, that settles that.
 
2014-01-30 05:14:52 PM  

Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.


Is the US obligated to honor every extradition request though?  Particular in the case of a double-jeopardy conviction that would not be accepted in the US?
 
2014-01-30 05:14:54 PM  
Here's the link to the story.  I haven't a clue whether she did it or not.  Is that like reasonable doubt?
 
2014-01-30 05:14:55 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.


Can't tell if you're trolling or not, but there's literally no evidence tending to show that she was involved in the killing that doesn't have a much more likely and mundane explanation.

/Not to mention that there's a completely unrelated person (whose guilt is beyond doubt) already convicted of the crime.
 
2014-01-30 05:15:08 PM  
Didn't the "evidence" in this case come down to "someone said she once heard Knox say something bad about the victim" and also she didn't "act right" after the homicide; so clearly she's a depraved killer?
 
2014-01-30 05:15:35 PM  

wildcardjack: I still want to know how the cops came to think there was a drug fueled orgy involved. Methinks this sounds like projection of someone's deepest wishes.


The entire prosecution smacked of early 80s Memphis.
 
2014-01-30 05:15:36 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-30 05:15:40 PM  

wildcardjack: I still want to know how the cops came to think there was a drug fueled orgy involved. Methinks this sounds like projection of someone's deepest wishes.


Bunga bunga party?
 
2014-01-30 05:16:00 PM  
in a capital crime Italy will need to present the evidence and prove that Knox is guilty.  Amanda's lawyers will be able to keep this in the appeals court for decades.

The state of Texas would have already executed her, but the Federal Government will have to look at this and the relevant laws.  The only way she is going back to Italy is if she waves her rights to appeal.
 
2014-01-30 05:16:33 PM  
i.dailymail.co.uk
Reporter: "Hey Amanda, they found you guilty again, after acquitting you, after finding you guilty!"
Amanda: ",,,umm okay "
 
2014-01-30 05:16:47 PM  

CleanAndPure: but she's as guilty as OJ



No.
 
2014-01-30 05:16:57 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.




Maybe the not-guilty opinions have something to do with the almost complete lack of evidence, or the fact that the original trial was laced with theories about satanic/Freemason ritual sex abuse.

Or Americans are just assholes. Let's go with that.
 
2014-01-30 05:17:15 PM  

ElPresidente: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

Truest thing likely to be written in this thread - bravo.


googledrive.com
 
2014-01-30 05:17:33 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Didn't the "evidence" in this case come down to "someone said she once heard Knox say something bad about the victim" and also she didn't "act right" after the homicide; so clearly she's a depraved killer?


She was tried by the Italian (and English) tabloids.
 
2014-01-30 05:17:34 PM  
Pfft. No way an intelligent, cute, white chick would do something like that. Now if it had been some "thug" black dude...well...
 
2014-01-30 05:17:36 PM  
Wow this thread went full retard from post 2. I had no idea the italian DA even knew fark existed.
 
2014-01-30 05:17:48 PM  
Definitely a bullshiat case.  Don't study abroad, people!
 
2014-01-30 05:17:52 PM  
What and Amanda Knox might look like. Nice one NBC.......

media2.s-nbcnews.com
 
2014-01-30 05:18:06 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Didn't the "evidence" in this case come down to "someone said she once heard Knox say something bad about the victim" and also she didn't "act right" after the homicide; so clearly she's a depraved killer?


Well, according to CleanandPure she had sex multiple times with the murder weapon and then sang the American National Anthem over the victim's decomposing corpse while instagramming the whole thing.
 
2014-01-30 05:18:17 PM  
Lock her ass up with the seismologists who failed to predict an earthquake. Italian justice obviously knows better than any experts.
 
2014-01-30 05:18:19 PM  
Dear Ms. Knox,

Congratulations!  You have been selected as one of the winners of a free Playstation 4.  You can pick it up during normal business hours at the following address:

Via Gino dall'Oro, 14, Roma, Italy
+39 06 245 6011
 
Best wishes,
Polizia di Stato
Sony
 
2014-01-30 05:18:41 PM  

CleanAndPure: R.A.Danny: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

No. Americans believe that double jeopardy is wrong, and that if you try someone enough times and get enough do-overs the state will finally make it's case.

I do agree that double jeopardy is wrong too. Even during her first trial though media in US was painting her as this innocent saint.

She shouldn't have been retried because of double jeopardy... but she's as guilty as OJ and got off the first time for the same type of reasons.


Yeah except that unlike the OJ trial, the cops already had the crack-head rapist who actually committed the crime in jail
 
2014-01-30 05:18:47 PM  

The Dog Ate My Homework: Pfft. No way an intelligent, cute, white chick would do something like that. Now if it had been some "thug" black dude...well...


I think it is more a complete lack of evidence.

And that the real murderer is already in prison for the crime.
 
2014-01-30 05:18:51 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.


If you're trolling:
Good job man, epic response levels.

If you're not:
So you agree with the prosecutor that, despite zero evidence of her guilt AND the conviction of ANOTHER defendant who carried out the murder by himself, that Amada Knox is a secret Satan worshiper who killed her victim as part of a Satanic ritual?
 
2014-01-30 05:20:30 PM  

wildcardjack: I still want to know how the cops came to think there was a drug fueled orgy involved. Methinks this sounds like projection of someone's deepest wishes.


It was. The prosecutor has a long history of full bore crazy. Their 'justice system' is third world at best. Read Douglas Preston's Monster of Florence if you have any doubt.
 
2014-01-30 05:20:33 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

If you're trolling:
Good job man, epic response levels.

If you're not:
So you agree with the prosecutor that, despite zero evidence of her guilt AND the conviction of ANOTHER defendant who carried out the murder by himself, that Amada Knox is a secret Satan worshiper who killed her victim as part of a Satanic ritual?


The more I think back, I'm pretty sure it is a Mod Alt Troll. Effective this time around though.
 
2014-01-30 05:20:55 PM  

CleanAndPure: I do agree that double jeopardy is wrong too. Even during her first trial though media in US was painting her as this innocent saint.

She shouldn't have been retried because of double jeopardy... but she's as guilty as OJ and got off the first time for the same type of reasons.


The media and Americans are making unfounded assumptions about her.

And your counter is another unfounded assumption.

Well, OK then.
 
2014-01-30 05:21:23 PM  
If the case is as weak as has been portrayed, why the fark does a jury convict her? Again. Just wondering...

They tried her twice for the same crime and apparently the prosecution completely changed their story of why it happened the second time around. Ix nay on the ug fueled orgy dray.
 
2014-01-30 05:21:39 PM  
There's an argument floating around that the throwing out of the verdict wasn't technically an acquittal under Italian law, so the retrial didn't violate double jeopardy and hence extradition would still be legal under US law.
 
2014-01-30 05:22:40 PM  

CleanAndPure: but she's as guilty as OJ and got off the first time for the same type of reasons.


I can't see where the courts made their case, what with the satanic ritual crap and all. What are you seeing that makes her guilty?
 
2014-01-30 05:23:27 PM  
Call Bill Clinton.  If there's one thing he's good at, it's getting hot chicks out of prison.
 
2014-01-30 05:23:33 PM  

Skeptos: There's an argument floating around that the throwing out of the verdict wasn't technically an acquittal under Italian law, so the retrial didn't violate double jeopardy and hence extradition would still be legal under US law.


Amittedly they define things very differently, but they did pull her out of prison and let her come back to the US which is pretty telling.
 
2014-01-30 05:24:04 PM  
Amanda Knox found guilty of murder...again

knowthemovies.com

i.cdn.turner.com
 
2014-01-30 05:24:29 PM  

Maud Dib: ElPresidente: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

Truest thing likely to be written in this thread - bravo.

[googledrive.com image 240x313]


Oooo...rush me to the Burns Unit.

/when your IQ increases to match your age, call me
//not holding my breath
 
2014-01-30 05:25:22 PM  

kwame: CleanAndPure: I do agree that double jeopardy is wrong too. Even during her first trial though media in US was painting her as this innocent saint.

She shouldn't have been retried because of double jeopardy... but she's as guilty as OJ and got off the first time for the same type of reasons.

The media and Americans are making unfounded assumptions about her.

And your counter is another unfounded assumption.

Well, OK then.


What unfounded assumptions are Americans making about her?  That she shouldn't be convicted with "evidence" that's patently absurd?
 
2014-01-30 05:25:24 PM  

Cyclometh: The Italian justice system seems, from an outside observer's viewpoint, to be not only completely incompetent and capricious, but deeply corrupt.


So what you're saying is it's just like ours?
 
2014-01-30 05:26:35 PM  

patrick767: If the case is as weak as has been portrayed, why the fark does a jury convict her? Again. Just wondering...


She's American
 
2014-01-30 05:26:47 PM  
Do you suppose she finds Edward Snowden attractive?

/I can't honeymoon here, or here, or here....and you can't honeymoon here and here....
 
2014-01-30 05:27:44 PM  

CatfoodSpork: Definitely a bullshiat case.  Don't study abroad, people!


That's right!  Murder your roommates in a red-blooded American college.  Just don't use a gun.
 
2014-01-30 05:27:45 PM  

CatfoodSpork: Definitely a bullshiat case.  Don't study abroad, people!


I'd study abroad, if you know what I mean.
 
2014-01-30 05:28:47 PM  
Perhaps the Italians will launch drone strikes against Seattle?

So - cloud/silver lining etc.
 
2014-01-30 05:28:59 PM  

Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.


Not a chance the US extradites a citizen to undergo double jeopardy.
 
2014-01-30 05:29:19 PM  
For someone who travels as much as Knox did, it must kind of suck to know she'll never be able to leave the United States again.
 
2014-01-30 05:29:27 PM  

Evil Mackerel: Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.

I think there might be a place she could hold up at in Russia.


Actually Russia is probably about the best country that doesnt have an extradition treaty with the US and most of the EU countries like Italy, most of the other options are like Iran, countries without a central govt in Sub Saharan Africa like Somalia, Best Korea, Cuba, etc.
 
2014-01-30 05:30:56 PM  
 
2014-01-30 05:31:19 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.


Eh?  Read what Douglas Child has written about the Italy legal system.  It's as corrupt as they get, and Knox was lucky to get out of there.
 
2014-01-30 05:31:23 PM  

patrick767: If the case is as weak as has been portrayed, why the fark does a jury convict her? Again. Just wondering...

They tried her twice for the same crime and apparently the prosecution completely changed their story of why it happened the second time around. Ix nay on the ug fueled orgy dray.


I wonder if the jury gets to know this.  Does the Italian prosecution have to prove beyond a resonable doubt the motivation for the crime?  And if so,  doesn't using a different motive this time around imply that they were wrong the first time?
 
2014-01-30 05:31:37 PM  

ElPresidente: Maud Dib: ElPresidente: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

Truest thing likely to be written in this thread - bravo.

[googledrive.com image 240x313]

Oooo...rush me to the Burns Unit.

/when your IQ increases to match your age, call me
//not holding my breath


Did you even read about the case?
Because your ignorance in the matter is astounding, unless you're propping up a troll account with your own level of derp, which has reached potato-like levels, btw.


In other words....
www.applehammerwebdesign.com
 
2014-01-30 05:32:58 PM  
With regards extradition, I'm not sure the USA politicos will want to open a can of worms by not honouring an extradition treaty with an EU country as who knows where it'll end. Double jeopardy may well apply in the USA, but not in Italy where the offence and guilty verdict took place.
 
2014-01-30 05:33:45 PM  

keepitcherry: Cyclometh: The Italian justice system seems, from an outside observer's viewpoint, to be not only completely incompetent and capricious, but deeply corrupt.

So what you're saying is it's just like ours?


No, it's worse.  The official position in Italy is that sometimes they convict the innocent and sometimes the guilty go free, so that makes it all OK.

While that can happen, Italy accepts the mistakes as "balance," and feels that makes it alright.

Mignini is a fool and a clown who is still searching for some sexual base for every case.
 
2014-01-30 05:34:37 PM  
So in Italy a trial can be a "2 out of 3 falls" match?
 
2014-01-30 05:34:38 PM  

Starshines: What unfounded assumptions are Americans making about her? That she shouldn't be convicted with "evidence" that's patently absurd?


Pay attention.  I'm just pointing out how hollow the troll's comments are.
 
2014-01-30 05:34:56 PM  

Doom MD: Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.

Not a chance the US extradites a citizen to undergo double jeopardy.


Well the SCOTUS has ruled before that a treaty with a foriegn nation trumps even the constitution itself so we can and on paper should, although I personally dont think we should.
 
2014-01-30 05:35:12 PM  
This would be non-news if she wasn't pretty
 
2014-01-30 05:35:28 PM  

Maud Dib: ElPresidente: Maud Dib: ElPresidente: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

Truest thing likely to be written in this thread - bravo.

[googledrive.com image 240x313]

Oooo...rush me to the Burns Unit.

/when your IQ increases to match your age, call me
//not holding my breath

Did you even read about the case?
Because your ignorance in the matter is astounding, unless you're propping up a troll account with your own level of derp, which has reached potato-like levels, btw.


In other words....
[www.applehammerwebdesign.com image 196x133]


Hmmmm...my phone's still not ringing. What a surprise.
 
2014-01-30 05:35:54 PM  

Maud Dib: ElPresidente: Maud Dib: ElPresidente: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

Truest thing likely to be written in this thread - bravo.

Oooo...rush me to the Burns Unit.

/when your IQ increases to match your age, call me
//not holding my breath


In other words....
[www.applehammerwebdesign.com image 196x133]


What do you know about it?  Where did you get your info?
 
2014-01-30 05:37:44 PM  
if i were her, i wouldn't even go inside Pizza Hut
 
2014-01-30 05:37:56 PM  

ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.


Yeah, if she was found not-guilty, she would have totally gone back and built a summer house in Tuscany and the villagers would have welcomed her with open arms
 
2014-01-30 05:38:22 PM  

wildcardjack: I still want to know how the cops came to think there was a drug fueled orgy involved. Methinks this sounds like projection of someone's deepest wishes.



It's a sordid tale involving Silvio "Bunga Bunga" Berlusconi.
 
2014-01-30 05:38:25 PM  

Dr.Zom: wildcardjack: I still want to know how the cops came to think there was a drug fueled orgy involved. Methinks this sounds like projection of someone's deepest wishes.

It was. The prosecutor has a long history of full bore crazy. Their 'justice system' is third world at best. Read Douglas Preston's Monster of Florence if you have any doubt.


Questo! They're on their fourth, maybe fifth "OMG it's this guy!!!" Italy just hasn't been the same since those lousy Vandals.

/My mom did a Holy Lands tour of Egypt, Israel and Rome. Rome was the only one where they said "Stay together, watch your bags like a hawk."
//csb
 
2014-01-30 05:39:33 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.


And yet you believe the accused is guilty until proven innocent. You're a serial killer who disposed of the bodies with acid, leaving no traces. Defend yourself, go!
 
2014-01-30 05:39:37 PM  

jsmilky: if i were her, i wouldn't even go inside Pizza Hut


If you get Pizza Hut breadsticks fresh out of the oven, they're worth the risk.
 
2014-01-30 05:39:47 PM  

Prey4reign: Here's the link to the story.  I haven't a clue whether she did it or not.  Is that like reasonable doubt?


You can read about it and find clues.  But you won't find any reason to think she's guilty.
Emphasis on REASON.
 
2014-01-30 05:41:06 PM  
The prosecutor imagines knox in kinky sex romp to judges. Seems legit.
 
2014-01-30 05:41:09 PM  

Oldiron_79: Doom MD: Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.

Not a chance the US extradites a citizen to undergo double jeopardy.

Well the SCOTUS has ruled before that a treaty with a foriegn nation trumps even the constitution itself so we can and on paper should, although I personally dont think we should.


I'd imagine a pretty hefty backlash against anyone who greenlights a move like that. Im at a total loss why Italy is pushing this, they look like clownshoes.
 
2014-01-30 05:41:27 PM  
No evidence?

Her and boyfriend told stories to police that differed about whereabouts of the two.

She stayed hours in her apartment with victims blood all over the place... even showering without calling police.

Purchased bleach after murder. The knife that had Meredith's blood on it and hers on handle had been cleaned with bleach that day.

Was spotted arguing by people.

She knew details about the case she wouldn't have know if she wasn't there. Things the police didn't make public. Like where wounds were on the body. How did she know?

She lied and now admits lying about trying to setup an innocent man as the perpetrator claiming she was scared so made up a lie about someone else.

Keep telling yourselves there is no evidence. Do you really think the Italian justice system ThAT screwed up they would find her guilty twice.

No. I don't believe in double jeopardy... but if you look at unbiased sources instead of just American media you will see it is actually a quite clear case against her.
 
2014-01-30 05:41:35 PM  

R.A.Danny: Does she still have a passport?

The United States maintains diplomatic relations but, according to the above-mentioned list, does not have extradition treaties with the following countries: Afghanistan, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Armenia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Botswana, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Cape Verde, the Central African Republic, Chad, China (except Hong Kong), Comoros, Congo (Kinshasa), Congo (Brazzaville), Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Indonesia, Ivory Coast, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Libya, Madagascar, Maldives, Mali, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Micronesia, Moldova, Mongolia, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Nepal, Niger, Oman, Qatar, Russia, Rwanda, Samoa, São Tomé & Príncipe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Slovenia,[7]Somalia, Sudan, South Sudan, Syria, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, Ukraine, the United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Vatican City, Vietnam, Yemen, and the countries formerly part of Yugoslavia: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro, and Serbia.


Micronesia looks nice.
It may be more relevant to see which nations have extradition treaties with Italy though.
 
2014-01-30 05:42:51 PM  

ElPresidente:

Hmmmm...my phone's still not ringing. What a surprise.



You've got nothing.

Inflatable Rhetoric:

What do you know about it?

That the lead prosecutor is a frikkin' loon?

Link
 
2014-01-30 05:43:08 PM  
This thread was good for finding three (probable) ALTs and color-coding them as such.
 
2014-01-30 05:44:09 PM  
Our diplomatic treaty specifically excludes extradition in instances of double jeopardy.
 
2014-01-30 05:44:09 PM  

Doom MD: Oldiron_79: Doom MD: Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.

Not a chance the US extradites a citizen to undergo double jeopardy.

Well the SCOTUS has ruled before that a treaty with a foriegn nation trumps even the constitution itself so we can and on paper should, although I personally dont think we should.

I'd imagine a pretty hefty backlash against anyone who greenlights a move like that. Im at a total loss why Italy is pushing this, they look like clownshoes.


Yes, but the SCOTUS are appointed for life, its not like THEY have to face re election.
 
2014-01-30 05:45:00 PM  

CleanAndPure: No evidence?

Her and boyfriend told stories to police that differed about whereabouts of the two.

She stayed hours in her apartment with victims blood all over the place... even showering without calling police.

Purchased bleach after murder. The knife that had Meredith's blood on it and hers on handle had been cleaned with bleach that day.

Was spotted arguing by people.

She knew details about the case she wouldn't have know if she wasn't there. Things the police didn't make public. Like where wounds were on the body. How did she know?

She lied and now admits lying about trying to setup an innocent man as the perpetrator claiming she was scared so made up a lie about someone else.

Keep telling yourselves there is no evidence. Do you really think the Italian justice system ThAT screwed up they would find her guilty twice.

No. I don't believe in double jeopardy... but if you look at unbiased sources instead of just American media you will see it is actually a quite clear case against her.


So are you an intern for a British or Italian tabloid?
 
2014-01-30 05:45:02 PM  

CleanAndPure: No evidence?

Her and boyfriend told stories to police that differed about whereabouts of the two.

She stayed hours in her apartment with victims blood all over the place... even showering without calling police.

Purchased bleach after murder. The knife that had Meredith's blood on it and hers on handle had been cleaned with bleach that day.

Was spotted arguing by people.

She knew details about the case she wouldn't have know if she wasn't there. Things the police didn't make public. Like where wounds were on the body. How did she know?

She lied and now admits lying about trying to setup an innocent man as the perpetrator claiming she was scared so made up a lie about someone else.

Keep telling yourselves there is no evidence. Do you really think the Italian justice system ThAT screwed up they would find her guilty twice.

No. I don't believe in double jeopardy... but if you look at unbiased sources instead of just American media you will see it is actually a quite clear case against her.


See, if you are going to make a list of things, make sure that (at least) one of them hasn't been found to be false.
 
2014-01-30 05:45:06 PM  

Oldiron_79: Well the SCOTUS has ruled before that a treaty with a foriegn nation trumps even the constitution itself so we can and on paper should, although I personally dont think we should.


What? When? All I know is this case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_v._Covert where they say "this Court has regularly and uniformly recognized the supremacy of the Constitution over a treaty "
 
2014-01-30 05:45:11 PM  

Moopy Mac: Gyrfalcon: Didn't the "evidence" in this case come down to "someone said she once heard Knox say something bad about the victim" and also she didn't "act right" after the homicide; so clearly she's a depraved killer?

She was tried by the Italian (and English) tabloids.


And also by a prosecutor with a history of inventing fantastic conspiracies around the crimes he investigates with no meaningful evidence that more people are involved, and who when caught out in lies tends to create even more fabulous lies - one of the best examples being when his claims about Franscesco Narducci's body being stolen/swapped turned out to be wrong, that of course meant the body must have been swapped twice to explain why the actual expert tested the exhumed body and confirmed the identity.
 
2014-01-30 05:45:14 PM  

CleanAndPure: DERP




Your lack of any kind of corroborating links is not surprising.
 
2014-01-30 05:45:43 PM  
Any law talking types know enough about extradition law to give an assessment of whether or not she'll be extradited?
 
2014-01-30 05:46:51 PM  
She's guilty?

1.bp.blogspot.com

Sounds legit.
 
2014-01-30 05:47:56 PM  
Besides, if we didn't extradite the guy who blew up a Cuban airliner, we're not going to extradite Knox.
 
2014-01-30 05:48:01 PM  

Maud Dib: ElPresidente:

Hmmmm...my phone's still not ringing. What a surprise.

You've got nothing.



On the contrary - I have two things you don't. An independent unbiased mind and the good sense not to argue with someone who doesn't - you.
 
2014-01-30 05:48:46 PM  

patrick767: It may be more relevant to see which nations have extradition treaties with Italy though.


Ain't nobody got time for dat
 
2014-01-30 05:48:50 PM  

Baz744: Any law talking types know enough about extradition law to give an assessment of whether or not she'll be extradited?


The American Bar Association's Journal has an article about it here.

Long and short of it: We'll find out.
 
2014-01-30 05:48:58 PM  

Moopy Mac: This thread was good for finding three (probable) ALTs and color-coding them as such.


Clean and pure and el presidente.

Who is #3? :)
 
2014-01-30 05:49:14 PM  
This is why Americans should avoid Third World countries.

How awful would it be if she had to make a couple porns to pay for her appeal?
 
2014-01-30 05:49:32 PM  

Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.


it does not work like that. The US will not turn American citizens over to other countries for trial or incarceration unless they are citizens of that country and not American.
 
2014-01-30 05:49:47 PM  

whither_apophis: Besides, if we didn't extradite the guy who blew up a Cuban airliner, we're not going to extradite Knox.


But I don't think Amanda Knox was working with the CIA.
 
2014-01-30 05:51:14 PM  
We need Ann Rule to do a book on this.  Everything I've read seems to be either from fanatical pro-Knox people or fanatical anti-Knox people.
 
2014-01-30 05:51:23 PM  
 
2014-01-30 05:51:29 PM  

CleanAndPure: No evidence?

Her and boyfriend told stories to police that differed about whereabouts of the two.

She stayed hours in her apartment with victims blood all over the place... even showering without calling police.

Purchased bleach after murder. The knife that had Meredith's blood on it and hers on handle had been cleaned with bleach that day.

Was spotted arguing by people.

She knew details about the case she wouldn't have know if she wasn't there. Things the police didn't make public. Like where wounds were on the body. How did she know?

She lied and now admits lying about trying to setup an innocent man as the perpetrator claiming she was scared so made up a lie about someone else.

Keep telling yourselves there is no evidence. Do you really think the Italian justice system ThAT screwed up they would find her guilty twice.

No. I don't believe in double jeopardy... but if you look at unbiased sources instead of just American media you will see it is actually a quite clear case against her.


Too bad they acquitted her. Italy's justice system sucks.
 
2014-01-30 05:52:29 PM  

Oldiron_79: Doom MD: Oldiron_79: Doom MD: Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.

Not a chance the US extradites a citizen to undergo double jeopardy.

Well the SCOTUS has ruled before that a treaty with a foriegn nation trumps even the constitution itself so we can and on paper should, although I personally dont think we should.

I'd imagine a pretty hefty backlash against anyone who greenlights a move like that. Im at a total loss why Italy is pushing this, they look like clownshoes.

Yes, but the SCOTUS are appointed for life, its not like THEY have to face re election.


Would scotus be the ones who pull the trigger on something like this?
 
2014-01-30 05:52:29 PM  

Smackledorfer: Moopy Mac: This thread was good for finding three (probable) ALTs and color-coding them as such.

Clean and pure and el presidente.

Who is #3? :)


I'm not going to name anyone and I'm probably wrong, but the similarities in names (multiple words capitalized and put together to make a compound name) and "arguing" and "reasoning" tactics are certainly suspicious.
 
2014-01-30 05:52:32 PM  

Moopy Mac: whither_apophis: Besides, if we didn't extradite the guy who blew up a Cuban airliner, we're not going to extradite Knox.

But I don't think Amanda Knox was working with the CIA.


We can ask Snowden.
 
2014-01-30 05:52:51 PM  

Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.


We have a treaty, but wether or not we follow it it largely up to our discretion. If we feel she won't, or didn't, get a fair trial, it's completely within our rights as a sovereign nation to tell Italy we won't be giving her back to them, and there's not a lot they can do. Certainly there will be political repercussions if that happens, but it's not like there's a super court that can force us to hand her over.
 
2014-01-30 05:53:52 PM  

R.A.Danny: Actually that was easier than I thought.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/14300292-amanda-knox-italy -h as-no-extradition-treaty-with-160-countries


Wow, Karen Fish likes drugs.
 
2014-01-30 05:54:23 PM  

CleanAndPure: She knew details about the case she wouldn't have know if she wasn't there. Things the police didn't make public. Like where wounds were on the body. How did she know?


If it wasn't made public, how the fark do you know about it?!
 
2014-01-30 05:54:37 PM  

ignacio: Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.

We have a treaty, but wether or not we follow it it largely up to our discretion. If we feel she won't, or didn't, get a fair trial, it's completely within our rights as a sovereign nation to tell Italy we won't be giving her back to them, and there's not a lot they can do. Certainly there will be political repercussions if that happens, but it's not like there's a super court that can force us to hand her over.


If they ban Buffalo mozzarella imports, I'll tie her up and drive her to the harbor myself.
 
2014-01-30 05:55:47 PM  

R.A.Danny: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

No. Americans believe that double jeopardy is wrong, and that if you try someone enough times and get enough do-overs the state will finally make it's case.


That and if the best you can do is make a case that the defendant is a witch instead of spending the time to prove that she and only she was capable and available to commit the crimes she is accused of, it's hard to take your third world kangaroo court seriously.
/my how far Roman jurisprudence has fallen
//not really, the Roman Empire was pretty corrupt and even they will admit their legal system was a joke back in the day
 
2014-01-30 05:56:02 PM  

CleanAndPure: R.A.Danny: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

No. Americans believe that double jeopardy is wrong, and that if you try someone enough times and get enough do-overs the state will finally make it's case.

I do agree that double jeopardy is wrong too. Even during her first trial though media in US was painting her as this innocent saint.

She shouldn't have been retried because of double jeopardy... but she's as guilty as OJ and got off the first time for the same type of reasons.


img.fark.net
 
2014-01-30 05:56:48 PM  
Seems like most of Europe is desperate not to let a little thing like "the truth" get in the way of a great story.
 
2014-01-30 05:57:01 PM  

Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.


EXTRADITION TREATIES DON'T WORK LIKE THAT
 
2014-01-30 05:57:10 PM  
I'm really curious as to how our government will respond to this, hopefully when they do ask for extradition the response will be no. I don't know if she is guilty or not but it seems rather corrupt to acquit her and then find her guilty....again.
 
2014-01-30 05:57:57 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: If it wasn't made public, how the fark do you know about it?!


He doesn't, he's making shiat up to troll with. Why is this not obvious?
 
2014-01-30 05:58:41 PM  

Starshines: kwame: CleanAndPure: I do agree that double jeopardy is wrong too. Even during her first trial though media in US was painting her as this innocent saint.

She shouldn't have been retried because of double jeopardy... but she's as guilty as OJ and got off the first time for the same type of reasons.

The media and Americans are making unfounded assumptions about her.

And your counter is another unfounded assumption.

Well, OK then.

What unfounded assumptions are Americans making about her?  That she shouldn't be convicted with "evidence" that's patently absurd?


You fail to understand:  If an American points out the lack of actual evidence supporting the Knox conviction, it's proof of American hegemony something something.  So there.
 
2014-01-30 05:58:42 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: CleanAndPure: She knew details about the case she wouldn't have know if she wasn't there. Things the police didn't make public. Like where wounds were on the body. How did she know?

If it wasn't made public, how the fark do you know about it?!


It was part of the evidence presented in court. Part of her original trial. She referenced things that she shouldn't have known if she wasn't there.

Example, where wounds were on body... and facts like nothing was stolen.
 
2014-01-30 05:58:47 PM  
Reading that article, it says the Italians got an acquittal, and the court threw it out and ordered a new trial.

Even if the law there allows double jeopardy, I think the US would be irresponsible to extradite her and submit her to that.
 
2014-01-30 06:01:04 PM  
A nice summation of the the cases for/against conviction.  By US standards, there is reasonable doubt.  Not every country operates on the principles of assumed innocence.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8803077/Amand a- Knox-Guilty-or-innocent-five-reasons-why.html
 
2014-01-30 06:02:14 PM  

Maud Dib: ElPresidente: Maud Dib: ElPresidente: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

Truest thing likely to be written in this thread - bravo.

[googledrive.com image 240x313]

Oooo...rush me to the Burns Unit.

/when your IQ increases to match your age, call me
//not holding my breath

Did you even read about the case?
Because your ignorance in the matter is astounding, unless you're propping up a troll account with your own level of derp, which has reached potato-like levels, btw.


In other words....
[www.applehammerwebdesign.com image 196x133]


farking FROG Canadians.  Just ignore them.  They are so jealous.  They can't lay claim to shiat.   Name a product besides ice, natural gas, and assholes.  Go ahead.

America is there sore spot.   They can't beat the king baby.

And where's the hot pics of Amanda.?

And fark Italy too
 
2014-01-30 06:02:28 PM  

PoRL: With regards extradition, I'm not sure the USA politicos will want to open a can of worms by not honouring an extradition treaty with an EU country as who knows where it'll end. Double jeopardy may well apply in the USA, but not in Italy where the offence and guilty verdict took place.


You're wrong about that. Italy refuses to extradite murderers to the U.S. on  human rights grounds because we have the death penalty. The U.S. will almost certainly refuse to extradite Knox. The consensus opinion is that the U.S. will cite double jeopardy as a "polite" way to say no. But if it wants to make a statement it will refuse on the grounds that the evidence against her was insufficient. E.U. countries and the U.s. refuse extraditions to each other some what regularly.
 
2014-01-30 06:03:37 PM  

patrick767: If the case is as weak as has been portrayed, why the fark does a jury convict her? Again. Just wondering...


Ask the McMartins.
 
2014-01-30 06:04:21 PM  

Moopy Mac: wildcardjack: I still want to know how the cops came to think there was a drug fueled orgy involved. Methinks this sounds like projection of someone's deepest wishes.

The entire prosecution smacked of early 80s Memphis.


50s.  Don't forget for quite a while their creepy fanfiction of an accusation involved satanic blood orgies.
 
2014-01-30 06:04:21 PM  

Oldiron_79: Doom MD: Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.

Not a chance the US extradites a citizen to undergo double jeopardy.

Well the SCOTUS has ruled before that a treaty with a foriegn nation trumps even the constitution itself so we can and on paper should, although I personally dont think we should.


Absolutely false. The Supreme did not and could not make such a ruling.
 
2014-01-30 06:04:32 PM  

Four Horsemen of the Domestic Dispute: Name a product besides ice, natural gas, and assholes


The Canadians gave us Celene Dion and Justin Bieber.
 
2014-01-30 06:05:01 PM  

Moopy Mac: Baz744: Any law talking types know enough about extradition law to give an assessment of whether or not she'll be extradited?

The American Bar Association's Journal has an article about it here.

Long and short of it: We'll find out.


Thank you.

The article suggests the law is against her, but she might not be extradited if she gets a sympathetic judge. Ultimately, the Secretary of State holds final authority in the matter though. Hopefully for her her family donated to the Kerry campaign in 2004.
 
2014-01-30 06:05:19 PM  
And before you GRAMMAR NAZIs chime in.  Looks like I farked up the there/their/they're shiat

~~America is there their  sore spot.   They can't beat the king baby
 
2014-01-30 06:06:11 PM  

hardinparamedic: Four Horsemen of the Domestic Dispute: Name a product besides ice, natural gas, and assholes

The Canadians gave us Celene Dion and Justin Bieber.



Covered under "assholes"
 
2014-01-30 06:06:21 PM  
CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American attractive women would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

/FTFY
/I don't follow the case.
/My bunk has no extradition laws either ;)
 
2014-01-30 06:06:24 PM  

R.A.Danny: Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.

It seems there is some leeway on that one. Italy will not allow someone to be sent here if they face the death penalty for example, and the US may take umbrage at the double jeopardy in this case.


THIS.  Also, there's plenty to cast doubt on Italy's entire judicial system.  This is the country that jailed geologists for failing to predict an earthquake, after all.
 
2014-01-30 06:06:37 PM  
Acquit her, convict her, let her stay here, extradite her. I don't much care. Whatever keeps her whiny face out of the spotlight forever is what I support.

www.etonline.com
 
2014-01-30 06:07:06 PM  

TheBigJerk: Moopy Mac: wildcardjack: I still want to know how the cops came to think there was a drug fueled orgy involved. Methinks this sounds like projection of someone's deepest wishes.

The entire prosecution smacked of early 80s Memphis.

50s.  Don't forget for quite a while their creepy fanfiction of an accusation involved satanic blood orgies.


If you want to lose what little faith you can have in the US Justice system, watch West of Memphis, about the prosecution and incarceration of the West Memphis 3.

There are still people locally who argue they are guilty because they worshipped satan, and other nonsense that was quite literally beaten out of a borderline mentally retarded, scared teenager in a 20 hour interrogation.

Their case was literally "They play DooM, listen to devil music, and have long hair." And one of them got the death penalty for it.
 
2014-01-30 06:07:38 PM  

Pimparoo: Seems like most of Europe is desperate not to let a little thing like "the truth" get in the way of a great story.


Yeah, Americans wouldn't do anything like this:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-care_sex-abuse_hysteria
 
2014-01-30 06:08:09 PM  

Oldiron_79: Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.


Are you saying that the US government is willing to use force to protect another government's right to commit double jeopardy against an American citizen?
 
2014-01-30 06:08:27 PM  

hi13760: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American attractive women woman would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

/FTFY
/I don't follow the case.
/My bunk has no extradition laws either ;)


ftfy

 
2014-01-30 06:08:38 PM  
Guilty!
Not guilty!
Guilty!

/Sorry, Italy. You roose. Fark yourselves, you incompetent freaks.
 
2014-01-30 06:10:33 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.


And you obviously have no clue as to what you are talking about.
 
2014-01-30 06:11:10 PM  

CleanAndPure: No evidence?

Her and boyfriend told stories to police that differed about whereabouts of the two.


False. Their stories were mostly consistent, and anyway this isn't evidence of murder.

She stayed hours in her apartment with victims blood all over the place... even showering without calling police.

False. There is a tiny amount of blood in the sink which could easily be overlooked.

Purchased bleach after murder. The knife that had Meredith's blood on it and hers on handle had been cleaned with bleach that day.

False. Kercher's blood was not on the knife and subsequent tests confirmed that in both appeals. And there is no evidence that it was cleaned by bleach. Also the witness that said Knox purchased bleach recanted.

Was spotted arguing by people.

So what.

She knew details about the case she wouldn't have know if she wasn't there. Things the police didn't make public. Like where wounds were on the body. How did she know?

False. She saw the murder scene when police broke down the door.

She lied and now admits lying about trying to setup an innocent man as the perpetrator claiming she was scared so made up a lie about someone else.

The police abused her into naming the innocent man by questioning her for hours on end while denying her sleep and food with no attorney present and no translator, and the "lost" the interrogation tapes.
 
2014-01-30 06:11:23 PM  

R.A.Danny: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

No. Americans believe that double jeopardy is wrong, and that if you try someone enough times and get enough do-overs the state will finally make it's case.


Ummmm, an Appeal Court and a Supreme Court reviewing cases isn't double jeopardy, no matter how easy a sound bite that makes.
 
2014-01-30 06:11:46 PM  
Italian justice at it's finest. I definitely feel sorry for the Kerchers, but Amanda Knox never should have been prosecuted in the first place.
 
2014-01-30 06:12:16 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Didn't the "evidence" in this case come down to "someone said she once heard Knox say something bad about the victim" and also she didn't "act right" after the homicide; so clearly she's a depraved killer?


That, and Satan.

SRSLY.

This was the initial prosecutor on the case, farking nut job. I can't imagine most US courts letting his "Satanic ritual" case proceed.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuliano_Mignini

*Offer not valid in Arkansas.
 
2014-01-30 06:12:26 PM  

R.A.Danny: Does she still have a passport?

The United States maintains diplomatic relations but, according to the above-mentioned list, does not have extradition treaties with the following countries: Afghanistan, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Armenia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Botswana, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Cape Verde, the Central African Republic, Chad, China (except Hong Kong), Comoros, Congo (Kinshasa), Congo (Brazzaville), Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Indonesia, Ivory Coast, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Libya, Madagascar, Maldives, Mali, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Micronesia, Moldova, Mongolia, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Nepal, Niger, Oman, Qatar, Russia, Rwanda, Samoa, São Tomé & Príncipe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Slovenia,[7]Somalia, Sudan, South Sudan, Syria, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, Ukraine, the United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Vatican City, Vietnam, Yemen, and the countries formerly part of Yugoslavia: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro, and Serbia.


The question is not whether they have extradition treaties with the US, but rather if they have extradition treaties with Italy. She can't go anywhere the Italians might call on another country to box her up and ship her to Rome.
 
2014-01-30 06:13:28 PM  

Cletus C.: Acquit her, convict her, let her stay here, extradite her. I don't much care. Whatever keeps her whiny face out of the spotlight forever is what I support.

[www.etonline.com image 640x380]


i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-30 06:14:40 PM  

wildcardjack: I still want to know how the cops came to think there was a drug fueled orgy involved. Methinks this sounds like projection of someone's deepest wishes.


The prosecution has already changed their theory, again. Now they say it was "an argument" that started everything.
 
2014-01-30 06:15:08 PM  

flondrix: Oldiron_79: Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.

Are you saying that the US government is willing to use force to protect another government's right to commit double jeopardy against an American citizen?


The question is whether or not the appeals court decision was an "acquittal" within the meaning of the pertinent law. The fancy law talking types say it's not 100% clear, but that the appeals court decision did not constitute an "acquittal" because it wasn't considered a "final decision." The law seems to be against her, but it looks just enough like what we think of as double jeopardy to give a judge or the state department a plausible diplomatically inoffensive excuse to refuse to extradite.
 
2014-01-30 06:16:07 PM  

Pimparoo: Seems like most of Europe is desperate not to let a little thing like "the truth" get in the way of a great story.


They do have a history of that . . .
upload.wikimedia.org
...but so do most places in the world.
 
2014-01-30 06:17:07 PM  

Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: What_do_you_want_now: /Evidence was she had a fingerprint on a knife she owned in her apartment
//AFAIK wasn't even the murder weapon.

It was confirmed to not be the murder weapon. The murder weapon has never been found or presented in the case, as I understand it.

Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.

No, staying the US is her best option, but she can probably never leave. The US is not likely to extradite her simply because she was previously acquitted and to do so would violate our own principles of not allowing double jeopardy. Then you combine that with the extremely weak and mishandled evidence in the case and she's going to be ok staying here.


The us sends drones to execute its own citizens without trial It doesn't give a damn about whatever ideals we claim to believe in
 
2014-01-30 06:17:54 PM  
I think it's pretty remarkable how calm and collected the Kerchers have been through all this.

(I remember this thread when the appeal went through, with angry folks outraged when people called her a killer, saying "The court has cleared her! How dare you!".

Are those same people all going to call her a killer now, or have the rules changed?)
 
2014-01-30 06:20:09 PM  

LemSkroob: wildcardjack: I still want to know how the cops came to think there was a drug fueled orgy involved. Methinks this sounds like projection of someone's deepest wishes.

The prosecution has already changed their theory, again. Now they say it was "an argument" that started everything.


i wonder how they work that into the man they have in prison (the drifter fellow) who admitted to the murder? Knox was arguing with kercher, then some guy dove in through the window and started raping and stabbing kercher and knox just figured she'd go with it (oh and then knox's BF also stabbed kercher a few times, because he didn't want to be the only guy there who hadn't stabbed someone?)
 
2014-01-30 06:25:47 PM  

ElPresidente: Maud Dib: ElPresidente:

Hmmmm...my phone's still not ringing. What a surprise.

You've got nothing.

On the contrary - I have two things you don't. An independent unbiased mind and the good sense not to argue with someone who doesn't - you.


You're response to this thread and apparent willingness to keep the conversation going seem to indicate that you're wrong on both points.
 
2014-01-30 06:26:33 PM  

Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: What_do_you_want_now: /Evidence was she had a fingerprint on a knife she owned in her apartment
//AFAIK wasn't even the murder weapon.

It was confirmed to not be the murder weapon. The murder weapon has never been found or presented in the case, as I understand it.

Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.

No, staying the US is her best option, but she can probably never leave. The US is not likely to extradite her simply because she was previously acquitted and to do so would violate our own principles of not allowing double jeopardy. Then you combine that with the extremely weak and mishandled evidence in the case and she's going to be ok staying here.


The US extradited John Demjanjuk  to Germany after he was acquitted in an Israeli court.
 
2014-01-30 06:27:56 PM  

CleanAndPure: DarkSoulNoHope: CleanAndPure: She knew details about the case she wouldn't have know if she wasn't there. Things the police didn't make public. Like where wounds were on the body. How did she know?

If it wasn't made public, how the fark do you know about it?!

It was part of the evidence presented in court. Part of her original trial. She referenced things that she shouldn't have known if she wasn't there.

Example, where wounds were on body... and facts like nothing was stolen.


So they made it public then?  Which is it, you change your story more than what you claim Knox did.
 
2014-01-30 06:28:38 PM  

tlchwi02: LemSkroob: wildcardjack: I still want to know how the cops came to think there was a drug fueled orgy involved. Methinks this sounds like projection of someone's deepest wishes.

The prosecution has already changed their theory, again. Now they say it was "an argument" that started everything.

i wonder how they work that into the man they have in prison (the drifter fellow) who admitted to the murder? Knox was arguing with kercher, then some guy dove in through the window and started raping and stabbing kercher and knox just figured she'd go with it (oh and then knox's BF also stabbed kercher a few times, because he didn't want to be the only guy there who hadn't stabbed someone?)


Exactly. Rude Guede's DNA was under Kercher's fingernails, and in her vagina. He had a history of burglary and the house had been broken into. He was caught trying to flee to Germany and was arrested days before the murder with a knife in his possession. Then he confessed to the murder and didn't name either Knox or Sollecito as accomplices. But we are expected to believe that actually all three of them murdered Kercher together, and then Knox and Sollecito cheerfully stuck around while their accomplice fled the country? And why wouldn't Guede name his accomplices if he was going to confess? Or are we supposed to believe that Guede broke into the wrong house and then decided to fark a corpse and scratch himself with her fingernails?
 
2014-01-30 06:28:41 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American woman would never do anything wrong overseas.


FTFY
 
2014-01-30 06:31:06 PM  
And the American general public finally gets to understand just a little bit what it's like to be black and poor in the U.S.
 
2014-01-30 06:31:53 PM  
So, Hayden is going to get a 2nd movie out of this?

oi61.tinypic.com
 
2014-01-30 06:34:26 PM  

MagicianNamedGob: tlchwi02: LemSkroob: wildcardjack: I still want to know how the cops came to think there was a drug fueled orgy involved. Methinks this sounds like projection of someone's deepest wishes.

The prosecution has already changed their theory, again. Now they say it was "an argument" that started everything.

i wonder how they work that into the man they have in prison (the drifter fellow) who admitted to the murder? Knox was arguing with kercher, then some guy dove in through the window and started raping and stabbing kercher and knox just figured she'd go with it (oh and then knox's BF also stabbed kercher a few times, because he didn't want to be the only guy there who hadn't stabbed someone?)

Exactly. Rude Guede's DNA was under Kercher's fingernails, and in her vagina. He had a history of burglary and the house had been broken into. He was caught trying to flee to Germany and was arrested days before the murder with a knife in his possession. Then he confessed to the murder and didn't name either Knox or Sollecito as accomplices. But we are expected to believe that actually all three of them murdered Kercher together, and then Knox and Sollecito cheerfully stuck around while their accomplice fled the country? And why wouldn't Guede name his accomplices if he was going to confess? Or are we supposed to believe that Guede broke into the wrong house and then decided to fark a corpse and scratch himself with her fingernails?


Get out of my head!
 
2014-01-30 06:34:39 PM  
The old gang bang motive passed the smell test with the new jury, after it didn't, after it did.  These Italians seem really confused.  My uncle just got back from a Switzerland/Italy trip.  He said crossing the border into Italy reminded him of crossing the border into Tijuana.  It's sort of like Western Europe's Mexico these days.
 
2014-01-30 06:34:47 PM  
 
2014-01-30 06:35:01 PM  

MagicianNamedGob: tlchwi02: LemSkroob: wildcardjack: I still want to know how the cops came to think there was a drug fueled orgy involved. Methinks this sounds like projection of someone's deepest wishes.

The prosecution has already changed their theory, again. Now they say it was "an argument" that started everything.

i wonder how they work that into the man they have in prison (the drifter fellow) who admitted to the murder? Knox was arguing with kercher, then some guy dove in through the window and started raping and stabbing kercher and knox just figured she'd go with it (oh and then knox's BF also stabbed kercher a few times, because he didn't want to be the only guy there who hadn't stabbed someone?)

Exactly. Rude Guede's DNA was under Kercher's fingernails, and in her vagina. He had a history of burglary and the house had been broken into. He was caught trying to flee to Germany and was arrested days before the murder with a knife in his possession. Then he confessed to the murder and didn't name either Knox or Sollecito as accomplices. But we are expected to believe that actually all three of them murdered Kercher together, and then Knox and Sollecito cheerfully stuck around while their accomplice fled the country? And why wouldn't Guede name his accomplices if he was going to confess? Or are we supposed to believe that Guede broke into the wrong house and then decided to fark a corpse and scratch himself with her fingernails?


Uh. Excuse me. You seem to be ignoring some highly probative evidence there counselor. For example:

1) She did cartwheels at the police station.

WHAT say you to that, SIR?
 
2014-01-30 06:35:59 PM  
I realize she's pretty hot looking but going to these lengths to secure her as their sex slave for life is a bit too obvious.
 
rka
2014-01-30 06:37:46 PM  

PoRL: With regards extradition, I'm not sure the USA politicos will want to open a can of worms by not honouring an extradition treaty with an EU country as who knows where it'll end. Double jeopardy may well apply in the USA, but not in Italy where the offence and guilty verdict took place.


Not being a US citizen maybe you don't quite get the mindset here.

The US gives fark-all about honoring extradition treaties with Italy.

There is ZERO chance a US court grants an extradition for a US citizen to face a corrupt Italian kangaroo court (which is basically the entire Italian legal system) for a crime the Italians set her free on once already.

Warlordtrooper: The us sends drones to execute its own citizens without trial It doesn't give a damn about whatever ideals we claim to believe in


It cares even less what other countries believe in. Is there a way to negative care? Can we actually care so little we go below zero? Yes? Then that's what the US feels about Italy in this case.

The US sends drones to kill its own citizen? Well, lets just say I wouldn't want to be an Italian living in the flight path of the US base at Aviano. Whoops! Guess I dropped one there. Soooorrry.
 
2014-01-30 06:39:38 PM  

ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.


Fear not Foxy Knoxy, if you get a hankering for some Braciole there will be no need to hop the pond.

/if you catch my drift
 
2014-01-30 06:41:18 PM  
bdinn.com
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-30 06:42:15 PM  
Pleading ignorance here.  What is the difference between having her sentence vacated and acquitted.  Since it was thrown out by the higher Italian court, would it still be double jeopardy or is it just a retrial and not double jeopardy?
 
2014-01-30 06:42:36 PM  

hardinparamedic: TheBigJerk: Moopy Mac: wildcardjack: I still want to know how the cops came to think there was a drug fueled orgy involved. Methinks this sounds like projection of someone's deepest wishes.

The entire prosecution smacked of early 80s Memphis.

50s.  Don't forget for quite a while their creepy fanfiction of an accusation involved satanic blood orgies.

If you want to lose what little faith you can have in the US Justice system, watch West of Memphis, about the prosecution and incarceration of the West Memphis 3.

There are still people locally who argue they are guilty because they worshipped satan, and other nonsense that was quite literally beaten out of a borderline mentally retarded, scared teenager in a 20 hour interrogation.

Their case was literally "They play DooM, listen to devil music, and have long hair." And one of them got the death penalty for it.


Oh when we compare countries we can use examples from 50+ years ago for one and present day for the other and pretend that's legit?  When can we get to Germany?
 
2014-01-30 06:42:49 PM  

Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.


Nah, here's the relevant part from our extradition treaty with Italy:

ARTICLE VI
Non Bis in Idem
(Not Twice in Same, for a translation)
Extradition shall not be granted when the person sought has been convicted, acquitted or pardoned, or has served the sentence imposed, by the Requested Party for the same acts for which extradition is requested.

So, since they released her, they can't request us to send her to them.  Pretty sure that's a standard clause in all our extradition treaties.  Since double jeopardy is expressly forbidden by the Constitution, having a treaty that allows other governments to subject the citizenry to double jeopardy would probably get thrown out pretty quickly.
 
2014-01-30 06:43:03 PM  

rka: PoRL: With regards extradition, I'm not sure the USA politicos will want to open a can of worms by not honouring an extradition treaty with an EU country as who knows where it'll end. Double jeopardy may well apply in the USA, but not in Italy where the offence and guilty verdict took place.

Not being a US citizen maybe you don't quite get the mindset here.

The US gives fark-all about honoring extradition treaties with Italy.

There is ZERO chance a US court grants an extradition for a US citizen to face a corrupt Italian kangaroo court (which is basically the entire Italian legal system) for a crime the Italians set her free on once already.


This is actually call for John Kerry, not the courts.

I very much doubt he'll order her extradition, but that would actually be very unusual in the context of modern extraditions from the US to Italy: the only recent example where an extradition request was declined was when it was about several CIA agents. Usually, it's goes through without ruffling any feathers whatsoever, no matter how you wish to paint the Italian judicial system (which isn't particularly corrupt, no matter what you wish to pretend)
 
2014-01-30 06:43:34 PM  

MagicianNamedGob: tlchwi02: LemSkroob: wildcardjack: I still want to know how the cops came to think there was a drug fueled orgy involved. Methinks this sounds like projection of someone's deepest wishes.

The prosecution has already changed their theory, again. Now they say it was "an argument" that started everything.

i wonder how they work that into the man they have in prison (the drifter fellow) who admitted to the murder? Knox was arguing with kercher, then some guy dove in through the window and started raping and stabbing kercher and knox just figured she'd go with it (oh and then knox's BF also stabbed kercher a few times, because he didn't want to be the only guy there who hadn't stabbed someone?)

Exactly. Rude Guede's DNA was under Kercher's fingernails, and in her vagina. He had a history of burglary and the house had been broken into. He was caught trying to flee to Germany and was arrested days before the murder with a knife in his possession. Then he confessed to the murder and didn't name either Knox or Sollecito as accomplices. But we are expected to believe that actually all three of them murdered Kercher together, and then Knox and Sollecito cheerfully stuck around while their accomplice fled the country? And why wouldn't Guede name his accomplices if he was going to confess? Or are we supposed to believe that Guede broke into the wrong house and then decided to fark a corpse and scratch himself with her fingernails?


I'm not going to comment on the whole troll vs not a troll controversy upthread, but unless you spent time there, or actively read them online it's hard to fathom how batshiat crazy the European tabloids (UK especially) got with this story..

Regardless of troll v not a troll, rest assured there is a sizable number of the European public who actually believe this shiat.
 
2014-01-30 06:47:06 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.


The fact that the trial occurred in Italy is enough reason for me.
 
2014-01-30 06:48:36 PM  

LrdPhoenix: Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.

Nah, here's the relevant part from our extradition treaty with Italy:

ARTICLE VI
Non Bis in Idem (Not Twice in Same, for a translation)
Extradition shall not be granted when the person sought has been convicted, acquitted or pardoned, or has served the sentence imposed, by the Requested Party for the same acts for which extradition is requested.

So, since they released her, they can't request us to send her to them.  Pretty sure that's a standard clause in all our extradition treaties.  Since double jeopardy is expressly forbidden by the Constitution, having a treaty that allows other governments to subject the citizenry to double jeopardy would probably get thrown out pretty quickly.


This wasn't a second trial or a retrial, it was part of the normal appeals process of the tri-part judicial system in Italy. You may disagree with the system, or the verdict, but this isn't double jeopardy. It's not an unusual situation, and will of course have be anticipated within the extradition treaty. Kerry won't extradite, but it's not because of "double jeopardy", because this isn't.
 
2014-01-30 06:51:50 PM  
Keep defending the murderer, Farkers! You all have your law GEDs after all.
 
2014-01-30 06:52:47 PM  
It's kind of funny for Anericans to call someone's judicial system corrupt.
 
2014-01-30 06:53:00 PM  

MagicianNamedGob: PoRL: With regards extradition, I'm not sure the USA politicos will want to open a can of worms by not honouring an extradition treaty with an EU country as who knows where it'll end. Double jeopardy may well apply in the USA, but not in Italy where the offence and guilty verdict took place.

You're wrong about that. Italy refuses to extradite murderers to the U.S. on  human rights grounds because we have the death penalty. The U.S. will almost certainly refuse to extradite Knox. The consensus opinion is that the U.S. will cite double jeopardy as a "polite" way to say no. But if it wants to make a statement it will refuse on the grounds that the evidence against her was insufficient. E.U. countries and the U.s. refuse extraditions to each other some what regularly.


Well, the extradition treaty with them (Article IX) states that extradition can be refused if the offense is punishable by death in the country requesting extradition and not in the country that extradition is being requested from, so they have that right.  Of course, Article VI, which I posted above, also gives right to refuse in the case of double jeopardy, so we have that right as well.

borg: The US extradited John Demjanjuk to Germany after he was acquitted in an Israeli court.


Those were two separate charges for two separate things (Well, similar, but separate.  Israel thought he a specific nazi guard at a concentration camp who he likely wasn't, Germany thought he was a totally different nazi guard at another concentration camp) made by two separate governments.
 
2014-01-30 06:54:35 PM  

doubled99: Keep defending the murderer, Farkers! You all have your law GEDs after all.


I don't see anybody defending Rudy Guede
 
2014-01-30 06:54:58 PM  
I just love how everyone is happy to believe the Italian prosecutors are lying scumbags, but the defence team and defendants must be angels telling the complete truth and incapable of lying themselves.

There's a simple solution. Send her to Guantanamo Bay. Still on US territory and facing Italian-style American justice for the next ten years. She must be a threat and need locking up, right?
 
2014-01-30 06:55:34 PM  
i3.mirror.co.uk
Lifetime idea of the victims last moments

She did make maxims top 100 at 92 i think before she was released, if she was ugly would it be as big of a story?
images.gqitalia.it2.bp.blogspot.comimages.smh.com.auimg.thesun.co.ukbrobible.com
But like many good things in live you could get herpes
 
2014-01-30 06:56:34 PM  

hardinparamedic: it does not work like that. The US will not turn American citizens over to other countries for trial or incarceration unless they are citizens of that country and not American.


If an American murders someone in, say, the UK, manages to get back to the USA before the police discover the murder, and the UK presents solid evidence to the US State department, you're saying the American gets off scott free?
 
Boe [TotalFark]
2014-01-30 06:56:48 PM  

indylaw: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

Maybe the not-guilty opinions have something to do with the almost complete lack of evidence, or the fact that the original trial was laced with theories about satanic/Freemason ritual sex abuse.

Or Americans are just assholes. Let's go with that.


Or the fact that this is the same justice system that convicted and jailed scientists for not predicting earthquakes.
 
2014-01-30 06:58:16 PM  

doubled99: Keep defending the murderer, Farkers! You all have your law GEDs after all.



American or Italian GED?
 
2014-01-30 06:59:25 PM  

doglover: It's kind of funny for Anericans to call someone's judicial system corrupt.


our courts have done bad things, and yes we've convicted innocent people wrongly, and not convicted people , like Casey Anthony and ok Simpson that we probably should have...

But yes, the Italian court system is a terrible joke, and far worse...
I know this goes against the everything European is better worldview some espouse, but it's still true, make peace with it...
 
2014-01-30 06:59:36 PM  

ElPresidente: Maud Dib: ElPresidente:

Hmmmm...my phone's still not ringing. What a surprise.

You've got nothing.

On the contrary - I have two things you don't. An independent unbiased mind and the good sense not to argue with someone who doesn't - you.


Pfft.
Clown.

/I know you can defend yourself Maud Dib, but the troll got me! He got me. I'm sorry. It's just he thinks he's the Brain, but he's Pinky. Narf.
 
2014-01-30 07:01:53 PM  

LrdPhoenix: Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.

Nah, here's the relevant part from our extradition treaty with Italy:

ARTICLE VI
Non Bis in Idem (Not Twice in Same, for a translation)
Extradition shall not be granted when the person sought has been convicted, acquitted or pardoned, or has served the sentence imposed, by the Requested Party for the same acts for which extradition is requested. So, since they released her, they can't request us to send her to them.  Pretty sure that's a standard clause in all our extradition treaties.  Since double jeopardy is expressly forbidden by the Constitution, having a treaty that allows other governments to subject the citizenry to double jeopardy would probably get thrown out pretty quickly.


The legal question there is whether the appeals court decision constitutes an "acquittal" within the meaning of the treaty. It's not 100% clear. Italy argues it wasn't because it wasn't considered a "final decision.
 
2014-01-30 07:02:13 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.


static2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-01-30 07:02:39 PM  

ElPresidente: I just love how everyone is happy to believe the Italian prosecutors are lying scumbags, but the defence team and defendants must be angels telling the complete truth and incapable of lying themselves.

There's a simple solution. Send her to Guantanamo Bay. Still on US territory and facing Italian-style American justice for the next ten years. She must be a threat and need locking up, right?


You sound unbiased.
 
2014-01-30 07:04:47 PM  
This is fun. In any other thread, European countries are all far more educated, sophisticated and run better than stupid old "Merica.
 Except for the justice system! That's where we are suddenly far superior!

The biatch is guilty. Twice convicted. Your argument was used in court already, and deemed invalid.
 
2014-01-30 07:07:00 PM  

The Fett: Not every country operates on the principles of assumed innocence.


Indeed.  Does France really operate on the principle of presumptive guilt?  If so, will the US extradite someone there for trial?
 
2014-01-30 07:07:20 PM  

dforkus: I'm not going to comment on the whole troll vs not a troll controversy upthread, but unless you spent time there, or actively read them online it's hard to fathom how batshiat crazy the European tabloids (UK especially) got with this story..Regardless of troll v not a troll, rest assured there is a sizable number of the European public who actually believe this shiat.


And millions of Americans believe Fox News is fair and balanced, or that 9/11 was an inside job. People all over the world believe what sounds good to them, discarding any contradicting evidence in the vast majority of cases.

If you read UK tabloids on other stories, they go batshiat crazy over everything, the Knox case doesn't really even stand out as a particularly egregious case. I mean if you want to plumb the depths of UK journalism, try several papers making a single clearly accidental £10 (~$15) expenses claim from a politicians husband front page news for nearly a month*. Or of course the Murdoch phone hacking scandal where they deleted texts from a phone of a girl the police were searching for one of the times they hacked her phone, making the police/parents think she still had the phone, etc.

Or if you want to laugh at their audacious hypocrisy you might pick out the issue of I think the Daily Mirror in the late 90s where the front page was splashed with something about a "most sick evil pervert of all time" relating the story of some guy that had been convicted of having sex with a 15 year old, while on the back pages (sport) was Anna Kournikova's (then underage) butt, and in the entertainment pages was an upskirt photo of (then underage) Natalie Portman getting out of a car.

*It was for a PPV adult movie, which explains why it might get some play, but that also means there is no way it was deliberate
 
2014-01-30 07:08:13 PM  
This her?

 This Might Be The Worst Teenager On Instagram (Featured Partner)
 
2014-01-30 07:08:46 PM  

dforkus: Casey Anthony


Contrary to popular opinion, the jury was right to acquit Casey Anthony. The prosecution failed to rule out the theory, quite plausible, that the girl died accidentally, probably by Casey's culpable negligence, and that Casey made a clumsy attempt to cover it up by making it look like a kidnapping and murder.

Casey Anthony is a very irresponsible person. But nothing in her background makes me think she's so cold she would kill her own child so she could live a party lifestyle. I think my theory is much more plausible than that advanced by the prosecution.
 
2014-01-30 07:10:30 PM  

TheMysticS: ElPresidente: Maud Dib: ElPresidente:

Hmmmm...my phone's still not ringing. What a surprise.

You've got nothing.

On the contrary - I have two things you don't. An independent unbiased mind and the good sense not to argue with someone who doesn't - you.

Pfft.
Clown.

/I know you can defend yourself Maud Dib, but the troll got me! He got me. I'm sorry. It's just he thinks he's the Brain, but he's Pinky. Narf.


Using a child's cartoon as a basis for an argument to try to prove you're intellectually superior is no way to go through life, son.

the_vegetarian_cannibal: ElPresidente: I just love how everyone is happy to believe the Italian prosecutors are lying scumbags, but the defence team and defendants must be angels telling the complete truth and incapable of lying themselves.

There's a simple solution. Send her to Guantanamo Bay. Still on US territory and facing Italian-style American justice for the next ten years. She must be a threat and need locking up, right?

You sound unbiased.


Radio Shack called - they have batteries for your non-functioning Sarcasm Meter.
 
2014-01-30 07:12:34 PM  

doglover: It's kind of funny for Anericans to call someone's judicial system corrupt.


It's funny you think the Italian justice system is better than the United States, buddy.

Hint: Every single piece of evidence in this case would have been thrown out in the US Justice System as tainted and/or illegally obtained.
 
2014-01-30 07:13:30 PM  

doubled99: This is fun. In any other thread, European countries are all far more educated, sophisticated and run better than stupid old "Merica.
 Except for the justice system! That's where we are suddenly far superior!

The biatch is guilty. Twice convicted. Your argument was used in court already, and deemed invalid.


No, northern European countries are. The Mediterrean states peaked about 44 BCE.
 
2014-01-30 07:14:20 PM  

nekom: This is the country that jailed geologists for failing to predict an earthquake, after all.


Huh.  In GE101, I was told the story of Italy jailing some civil engineers because a dam didn't break when a landslide (possibly triggered by an earthquake) dumped an entire hillside into the reservoir.  The argument was that this was proof that the dam had been built much stronger than the specification required, and the engineers had therefore defrauded the government.  Could these be two morphs of the same urban legend?
 
2014-01-30 07:14:39 PM  
I don't need to say she did it because her eyes are screaming it.
 
2014-01-30 07:17:32 PM  

xria: dforkus: I'm not going to comment on the whole troll vs not a troll controversy upthread, but unless you spent time there, or actively read them online it's hard to fathom how batshiat crazy the European tabloids (UK especially) got with this story..Regardless of troll v not a troll, rest assured there is a sizable number of the European public who actually believe this shiat.

And millions of Americans believe Fox News is fair and balanced, or that 9/11 was an inside job. People all over the world believe what sounds good to them, discarding any contradicting evidence in the vast majority of cases.


Without a doubt, a sizable number of the American public are dumber than shiat consumers of a phony reality created by garbage media sources.. There is no disputing that.

My only point was that, whether they want to admit it or not, this also holds true for European society.
 
2014-01-30 07:17:47 PM  

flondrix: nekom: This is the country that jailed geologists for failing to predict an earthquake, after all.

Huh.  In GE101, I was told the story of Italy jailing some civil engineers because a dam didn't break when a landslide (possibly triggered by an earthquake) dumped an entire hillside into the reservoir.  The argument was that this was proof that the dam had been built much stronger than the specification required, and the engineers had therefore defrauded the government.  Could these be two morphs of the same urban legend?


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/23/world/europe/italy-convicts-7-for- fa ilure-to-warn-of-quake.html?_r=0

Back to this case, as mentioned, they have guy in jail who's DNA was found on the victim and admitted to it, they have no proof that Knox and her bf were involved.
 
2014-01-30 07:18:37 PM  

flondrix: nekom: This is the country that jailed geologists for failing to predict an earthquake, after all.

Huh.  In GE101, I was told the story of Italy jailing some civil engineers because a dam didn't break when a landslide (possibly triggered by an earthquake) dumped an entire hillside into the reservoir.  The argument was that this was proof that the dam had been built much stronger than the specification required, and the engineers had therefore defrauded the government.  Could these be two morphs of the same urban legend?


The earthquake trial isn't an urban legend. A quick bing will show the relevant articles.
 
2014-01-30 07:19:19 PM  

flondrix: nekom: This is the country that jailed geologists for failing to predict an earthquake, after all.

Huh.  In GE101, I was told the story of Italy jailing some civil engineers because a dam didn't break when a landslide (possibly triggered by an earthquake) dumped an entire hillside into the reservoir.  The argument was that this was proof that the dam had been built much stronger than the specification required, and the engineers had therefore defrauded the government.  Could these be two morphs of the same urban legend?


Not sure about your story nekom's example actually happened for real.
 
2014-01-30 07:19:41 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.


I think she's guilty. I listened to it at the start and I simply cannot believe her story, she had to be in on it, actively too.

She's attractive, so that makes her innocent to some. Look at how Casey Anthony got away with it.
 
2014-01-30 07:20:30 PM  

Bungles: Ummmm, an Appeal Court and a Supreme Court reviewing cases isn't double jeopardy, no matter how easy a sound bite that makes.


In the US legal system, once there is an acquittal, the prosecution cannot "appeal"--at least for that crime.  The courts can try for a second round with charges like "violating the victim's civil rights" or "interfering with a crime scene" or some such.
 
2014-01-30 07:22:59 PM  

ElPresidente: I just love how everyone is happy to believe the Italian prosecutors are lying scumbags, but the defence team and defendants must be angels telling the complete truth and incapable of lying themselves.

There's a simple solution. Send her to Guantanamo Bay. Still on US territory and facing Italian-style American justice for the next ten years. She must be a threat and need locking up, right?


Oooooo. Too far playing the Gitmo card.

I live with my mom
 
2014-01-30 07:25:22 PM  
Her tits are too pretty for her to be guilty.
 
2014-01-30 07:27:02 PM  

MagicianNamedGob: PoRL: With regards extradition, I'm not sure the USA politicos will want to open a can of worms by not honouring an extradition treaty with an EU country as who knows where it'll end. Double jeopardy may well apply in the USA, but not in Italy where the offence and guilty verdict took place.

You're wrong about that. Italy refuses to extradite murderers to the U.S. on  human rights grounds because we have the death penalty. The U.S. will almost certainly refuse to extradite Knox. The consensus opinion is that the U.S. will cite double jeopardy as a "polite" way to say no. But if it wants to make a statement it will refuse on the grounds that the evidence against her was insufficient. E.U. countries and the U.s. refuse extraditions to each other some what regularly.


This is why they did this - they were able to save face, in the knowledge that they won't be extraditing her, and they don't have to deal with the backfire from that. It was an empty gesture to make a corrupt, perverted old prosecutor feel better about himself - and it costs only the expense of the trial.
 
2014-01-30 07:28:26 PM  

rka: Is there a way to negative care? Can we actually care so little we go below zero?


Sure.  For example, some conservatives will go out of their way to do something ecologically unfriendly, just to piss off "the hippies".
 
2014-01-30 07:30:18 PM  

theflatline: Her tits are too pretty for her to be guilty.


Agreed.  That rack is borderline epic.

img.fark.net
 
2014-01-30 07:31:03 PM  

flondrix: rka: Is there a way to negative care? Can we actually care so little we go below zero?

Sure.  For example, some conservatives will go out of their way to do something ecologically unfriendly, just to piss off "the hippies".


So much for conservation.
 
2014-01-30 07:31:57 PM  

walktoanarcade: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

I think she's guilty. I listened to it at the start and I simply cannot believe her story, she had to be in on it, actively too.

She's attractive, so that makes her innocent to some. Look at how Casey Anthony got away with it.


You know, it's interesting you say that, because I've seen a couple of these threads, and that seems to be the standard reason that people believe that she is guilty.  Because they simply cannot believe her, and she just Has to be in on it, actively.  And that the only reason anyone thinks she's innocent is because she's pretty.

But I admit that I have my own biases.   One of which is that anytime somebody comes out and says that an American college student, male or female, murdered somebody in a satanic sex ritual gone wrong, I'm going to have something of an immediate rejection of that.  Particularly when that appears to be the major foundation of the case.
 
2014-01-30 07:32:20 PM  

flondrix: Bungles: Ummmm, an Appeal Court and a Supreme Court reviewing cases isn't double jeopardy, no matter how easy a sound bite that makes.

In the US legal system, once there is an acquittal, the prosecution cannot "appeal"--at least for that crime.  The courts can try for a second round with charges like "violating the victim's civil rights" or "interfering with a crime scene" or some such.


But she wasn't tried in the US, she was tried in a country with a tri-part judicial system with in-built rounds of appeal. That isn't double jeopardy, nor would it be a surprise to the people who drafted the treaty. It's the natural course.

To make it equivalent, it would be like someone in Italy being outraged that someone in the US wasn't sentenced at verdict - and therefore should be set free - but rather at a later sentencing hearing, as if they're two separate trials. They aren't, they're part of the same multi-step process. It's exactly the same thing here: it's a multi-part judicial process.
 
2014-01-30 07:34:34 PM  
(incidentally, she wasn't "acquitted" in the sense used by the US judicial system, that's just shoddy translation. The trial was still in progress)
 
2014-01-30 07:34:53 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.


I'm British and I think the British media have done everything but brand her as a witch because the victim was British. The US media seemed to want the trial to go on forever ending with her conviction. Then they could play the victim card. Truth told, nobody is sure whether she did it unless they had a horse in the race, in which case she's either an angel or a demon in human form.
 
2014-01-30 07:36:33 PM  

ElPresidente: TheMysticS: ElPresidente: Maud Dib: ElPresidente:

Hmmmm...my phone's still not ringing. What a surprise.

You've got nothing.

On the contrary - I have two things you don't. An independent unbiased mind and the good sense not to argue with someone who doesn't - you.

Pfft.
Clown.

/I know you can defend yourself Maud Dib, but the troll got me! He got me. I'm sorry. It's just he thinks he's the Brain, but he's Pinky. Narf.

Using a child's cartoon as a basis for an argument to try to prove you're intellectually superior is no way to go through life, son.

the_vegetarian_cannibal: ElPresidente: I just love how everyone is happy to believe the Italian prosecutors are lying scumbags, but the defence team and defendants must be angels telling the complete truth and incapable of lying themselves.

There's a simple solution. Send her to Guantanamo Bay. Still on US territory and facing Italian-style American justice for the next ten years. She must be a threat and need locking up, right?

You sound unbiased.

Radio Shack called - they have batteries for your non-functioning Sarcasm Meter.


Forgive me, E, old boy, l was just dumbing down my references to give you a chance to further participate in this discussion.
I was correct in my inference that you would recognize said cartoon characters, and that my reference would help you absorb the fact that I am, in essence, calling you a boob.

But really, I'm not trying to prove my intellectual superiority. I'm just calling you out as a wanker.
But, you win! Your annoying posts and snipes at a poster I like made me stick my nose in. Others have responded to you, as well. This one was a two-fer!
Trolly troll trolls the fark boards!

/and that's daughter, not son
 
2014-01-30 07:37:18 PM  

jonas opines: walktoanarcade: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

I think she's guilty. I listened to it at the start and I simply cannot believe her story, she had to be in on it, actively too.

She's attractive, so that makes her innocent to some. Look at how Casey Anthony got away with it.

You know, it's interesting you say that, because I've seen a couple of these threads, and that seems to be the standard reason that people believe that she is guilty.  Because they simply cannot believe her, and she just Has to be in on it, actively.  And that the only reason anyone thinks she's innocent is because she's pretty.

But I admit that I have my own biases.   One of which is that anytime somebody comes out and says that an American college student, male or female, murdered somebody in a satanic sex ritual gone wrong, I'm going to have something of an immediate rejection of that.  Particularly when that appears to be the major foundation of the case.


Why is it so hard to believe?   The debil [sic] part is probably pure bunk, but what if it isn't? Some sick bastards actually do kill people in "rituals" on a fairly regular basis. Maybe you're weary and remember the cult hysteria of the 80s deep down inside?

It isn't like I'm faulting anyone for thinking she's innocent, as she may well be. Her story perfectly tickles my "Bitach Be-Guitly" bone.
 
2014-01-30 07:37:26 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.


0-media-cdn.foolz.us

1/10
At least share your crazy ass theory of how she managed to do this.
 
2014-01-30 07:39:23 PM  

r1niceboy: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

I'm British and I think the British media have done everything but brand her as a witch because the victim was British. The US media seemed to want the trial to go on forever ending with her conviction. Then they could play the victim card. Truth told, nobody is sure whether she did it unless they had a horse in the race, in which case she's either an angel or a demon in human form.


I think that's an odd position to hold. I'm also British, and apart from the "Foxy Knoxy" headlines in the first few weeks, I think the British tabloids have been incredibly, bizarrely, restrained. It's almost a non-story. Which is, considering the British tabloids, odd.
 
2014-01-30 07:39:29 PM  

Bungles: flondrix: Bungles: Ummmm, an Appeal Court and a Supreme Court reviewing cases isn't double jeopardy, no matter how easy a sound bite that makes.

In the US legal system, once there is an acquittal, the prosecution cannot "appeal"--at least for that crime.  The courts can try for a second round with charges like "violating the victim's civil rights" or "interfering with a crime scene" or some such.

But she wasn't tried in the US, she was tried in a country with a tri-part judicial system with in-built rounds of appeal. That isn't double jeopardy, nor would it be a surprise to the people who drafted the treaty. It's the natural course.

To make it equivalent, it would be like someone in Italy being outraged that someone in the US wasn't sentenced at verdict - and therefore should be set free - but rather at a later sentencing hearing, as if they're two separate trials. They aren't, they're part of the same multi-step process. It's exactly the same thing here: it's a multi-part judicial process.



Doesn't matter what the Italians think. We do not have a fully observed extradition treaty with them. they routinely refuse to extradite Americans who might face the death penalty - and America would be entirely within it's rights to withold extradition.
The Italians don't care that the DP is legal; under our system - and we don't care if double jeopardy is allowed under theirs.
 
2014-01-30 07:43:59 PM  
The only scenario under which Kerry would allow her extradition would be if Italy then turned her over to Iran with her pockets stuffed with polonium and high-speed centrifuges.
 
2014-01-30 07:45:15 PM  

jso2897: MagicianNamedGob: PoRL: With regards extradition, I'm not sure the USA politicos will want to open a can of worms by not honouring an extradition treaty with an EU country as who knows where it'll end. Double jeopardy may well apply in the USA, but not in Italy where the offence and guilty verdict took place.

You're wrong about that. Italy refuses to extradite murderers to the U.S. on  human rights grounds because we have the death penalty. The U.S. will almost certainly refuse to extradite Knox. The consensus opinion is that the U.S. will cite double jeopardy as a "polite" way to say no. But if it wants to make a statement it will refuse on the grounds that the evidence against her was insufficient. E.U. countries and the U.s. refuse extraditions to each other some what regularly.

This is why they did this - they were able to save face, in the knowledge that they won't be extraditing her, and they don't have to deal with the backfire from that. It was an empty gesture to make a corrupt, perverted old prosecutor feel better about himself - and it costs only the expense of the trial.


They are also putting an innocent Italian man in prison.
 
2014-01-30 07:46:01 PM  

Bungles: r1niceboy: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

I'm British and I think the British media have done everything but brand her as a witch because the victim was British. The US media seemed to want the trial to go on forever ending with her conviction. Then they could play the victim card. Truth told, nobody is sure whether she did it unless they had a horse in the race, in which case she's either an angel or a demon in human form.

I think that's an odd position to hold. I'm also British, and apart from the "Foxy Knoxy" headlines in the first few weeks, I think the British tabloids have been incredibly, bizarrely, restrained. It's almost a non-story. Which is, considering the British tabloids, odd.


dontstepinthepoop.com
 
2014-01-30 07:46:56 PM  

jso2897: Bungles: flondrix: Bungles: Ummmm, an Appeal Court and a Supreme Court reviewing cases isn't double jeopardy, no matter how easy a sound bite that makes.

In the US legal system, once there is an acquittal, the prosecution cannot "appeal"--at least for that crime.  The courts can try for a second round with charges like "violating the victim's civil rights" or "interfering with a crime scene" or some such.

But she wasn't tried in the US, she was tried in a country with a tri-part judicial system with in-built rounds of appeal. That isn't double jeopardy, nor would it be a surprise to the people who drafted the treaty. It's the natural course.

To make it equivalent, it would be like someone in Italy being outraged that someone in the US wasn't sentenced at verdict - and therefore should be set free - but rather at a later sentencing hearing, as if they're two separate trials. They aren't, they're part of the same multi-step process. It's exactly the same thing here: it's a multi-part judicial process.


Doesn't matter what the Italians think. We do not have a fully observed extradition treaty with them. they routinely refuse to extradite Americans who might face the death penalty - and America would be entirely within it's rights to withold extradition.
The Italians don't care that the DP is legal; under our system - and we don't care if double jeopardy is allowed under theirs.


This isn't double jeopardy, and the US has regularly extradited to Italy (with the sole time it wasn't observed because of it involved CIA agents). The only clause in the treaty even relating to anything like what you'd call "double jeopardy" is about crimes that have already been through the court system in the US/Italy and essentially would be retried in the country of extradition. Which isn't the case here.

You're not speaking from a position of knowledge here, you're making things up. It doesn't help Knox's case for her supporters just to make stuff up.
 
2014-01-30 07:47:31 PM  

MagicianNamedGob: jso2897: MagicianNamedGob: PoRL: With regards extradition, I'm not sure the USA politicos will want to open a can of worms by not honouring an extradition treaty with an EU country as who knows where it'll end. Double jeopardy may well apply in the USA, but not in Italy where the offence and guilty verdict took place.

You're wrong about that. Italy refuses to extradite murderers to the U.S. on  human rights grounds because we have the death penalty. The U.S. will almost certainly refuse to extradite Knox. The consensus opinion is that the U.S. will cite double jeopardy as a "polite" way to say no. But if it wants to make a statement it will refuse on the grounds that the evidence against her was insufficient. E.U. countries and the U.s. refuse extraditions to each other some what regularly.

This is why they did this - they were able to save face, in the knowledge that they won't be extraditing her, and they don't have to deal with the backfire from that. It was an empty gesture to make a corrupt, perverted old prosecutor feel better about himself - and it costs only the expense of the trial.

They are also putting an innocent Italian man in prison.


This. He's the guy I feel the most sorry for in this media circus of a case. But I guess to the Italians, he's just another statistic that "balances out" the rights and wrongs of their broken justice system.
 
2014-01-30 07:48:29 PM  

jso2897: Bungles: flondrix: Bungles: Ummmm, an Appeal Court and a Supreme Court reviewing cases isn't double jeopardy, no matter how easy a sound bite that makes.

In the US legal system, once there is an acquittal, the prosecution cannot "appeal"--at least for that crime.  The courts can try for a second round with charges like "violating the victim's civil rights" or "interfering with a crime scene" or some such.

But she wasn't tried in the US, she was tried in a country with a tri-part judicial system with in-built rounds of appeal. That isn't double jeopardy, nor would it be a surprise to the people who drafted the treaty. It's the natural course.

To make it equivalent, it would be like someone in Italy being outraged that someone in the US wasn't sentenced at verdict - and therefore should be set free - but rather at a later sentencing hearing, as if they're two separate trials. They aren't, they're part of the same multi-step process. It's exactly the same thing here: it's a multi-part judicial process.


Doesn't matter what the Italians think. We do not have a fully observed extradition treaty with them. they routinely refuse to extradite Americans who might face the death penalty - and America would be entirely within it's rights to withold extradition.
The Italians don't care that the DP is legal; under our system - and we don't care if double jeopardy is allowed under theirs.


Given some of the pictures in this thread... I hope that the DP is available for Ms. Knox... if you know what I mean.

/if she really is as crazy as the Italian "legal" system says she is... she's gotta be a demon in the sack
 
2014-01-30 07:48:29 PM  

MagicianNamedGob: jso2897: MagicianNamedGob: PoRL: With regards extradition, I'm not sure the USA politicos will want to open a can of worms by not honouring an extradition treaty with an EU country as who knows where it'll end. Double jeopardy may well apply in the USA, but not in Italy where the offence and guilty verdict took place.

You're wrong about that. Italy refuses to extradite murderers to the U.S. on  human rights grounds because we have the death penalty. The U.S. will almost certainly refuse to extradite Knox. The consensus opinion is that the U.S. will cite double jeopardy as a "polite" way to say no. But if it wants to make a statement it will refuse on the grounds that the evidence against her was insufficient. E.U. countries and the U.s. refuse extraditions to each other some what regularly.

This is why they did this - they were able to save face, in the knowledge that they won't be extraditing her, and they don't have to deal with the backfire from that. It was an empty gesture to make a corrupt, perverted old prosecutor feel better about himself - and it costs only the expense of the trial.

They are also putting an innocent Italian man in prison.


Yes - but that won't have the downside of a huge uproar in the American press, and the subsequent  loss of tourist revenue.
Without American tourist dollars, Italy is Somalia.
 
2014-01-30 07:48:30 PM  

the_vegetarian_cannibal: Bungles: r1niceboy: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

I'm British and I think the British media have done everything but brand her as a witch because the victim was British. The US media seemed to want the trial to go on forever ending with her conviction. Then they could play the victim card. Truth told, nobody is sure whether she did it unless they had a horse in the race, in which case she's either an angel or a demon in human form.

I think that's an odd position to hold. I'm also British, and apart from the "Foxy Knoxy" headlines in the first few weeks, I think the British tabloids have been incredibly, bizarrely, restrained. It's almost a non-story. Which is, considering the British tabloids, odd.

[dontstepinthepoop.com image 349x350]


Umm, are you familiar with the British tabloid press? They've been positively cordial, compared to similar cases in the past.
 
2014-01-30 07:49:49 PM  

Bungles: the_vegetarian_cannibal: Bungles: r1niceboy: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

I'm British and I think the British media have done everything but brand her as a witch because the victim was British. The US media seemed to want the trial to go on forever ending with her conviction. Then they could play the victim card. Truth told, nobody is sure whether she did it unless they had a horse in the race, in which case she's either an angel or a demon in human form.

I think that's an odd position to hold. I'm also British, and apart from the "Foxy Knoxy" headlines in the first few weeks, I think the British tabloids have been incredibly, bizarrely, restrained. It's almost a non-story. Which is, considering the British tabloids, odd.

[dontstepinthepoop.com image 349x350]

Umm, are you familiar with the British tabloid press? They've been positively cordial, compared to similar cases in the past.


Says the British guy who is totally unbiased towards this case and hasn't posted endlessly about it in past Knox threads.
 
2014-01-30 07:50:17 PM  

Bungles: jso2897: Bungles: flondrix: Bungles: Ummmm, an Appeal Court and a Supreme Court reviewing cases isn't double jeopardy, no matter how easy a sound bite that makes.

In the US legal system, once there is an acquittal, the prosecution cannot "appeal"--at least for that crime.  The courts can try for a second round with charges like "violating the victim's civil rights" or "interfering with a crime scene" or some such.

But she wasn't tried in the US, she was tried in a country with a tri-part judicial system with in-built rounds of appeal. That isn't double jeopardy, nor would it be a surprise to the people who drafted the treaty. It's the natural course.

To make it equivalent, it would be like someone in Italy being outraged that someone in the US wasn't sentenced at verdict - and therefore should be set free - but rather at a later sentencing hearing, as if they're two separate trials. They aren't, they're part of the same multi-step process. It's exactly the same thing here: it's a multi-part judicial process.


Doesn't matter what the Italians think. We do not have a fully observed extradition treaty with them. they routinely refuse to extradite Americans who might face the death penalty - and America would be entirely within it's rights to withold extradition.
The Italians don't care that the DP is legal; under our system - and we don't care if double jeopardy is allowed under theirs.

This isn't double jeopardy, and the US has regularly extradited to Italy (with the sole time it wasn't observed because of it involved CIA agents). The only clause in the treaty even relating to anything like what you'd call "double jeopardy" is about crimes that have already been through the court system in the US/Italy and essentially would be retried in the country of extradition. Which isn't the case here.

You're not speaking from a position of knowledge here, you're making things up. It doesn't help Knox's case for her supporters just to make stuff up.


So are you going on record as predicting she will be extradited?
 
2014-01-30 07:52:09 PM  
Bungles:

This isn't double jeopardy, and the US has regularly extradited to Italy (with the sole time it wasn't observed because of it involved CIA agents). The only clause in the treaty even relating to anything like what you'd call "double jeopardy" is about crimes that have already been through the court system in the US/Italy and essentially would be retried in the country of extradition. Which isn't the case here.

You're not speaking from a position of knowledge here, you're making things up. It doesn't help Knox's case for her supporters just to make stuff up.


I think you are speaking without knowledge. Here is the opinion of someone with knowledge:

It is unlikely that Knox, who lives in Seattle, Washington, will return to Italy to serve additional prison time because U.S. law dictates that a person cannot be tried twice on the same charge, a legal expert told CNN. He believes that if Italy were to ask for extradition, U.S. officials would deny the request. "She was once put in jeopardy and later acquitted," said Sean Casey, a former prosecutor who is now a partner at Kobre & Kim in New York. "Under the treaty, extradition should not be granted."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/30/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox-retrial /
 
2014-01-30 07:56:46 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.


1st, there is very strong forensic evidence against Rudy Guede http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meredith_Kercher#Rudy_Guede alone while the evidence against Knox and Sollecto was weak at best. 2nd, in the US it is against the law to try someone twice for the same crime. If the prosecutors lose an appeal, they can't go to the Supreme Court and have the case tried again. If a conviction gets overturned, that's it, the person walks. Knox's conviction was overturned and she was declared innocent, then the supreme court sent it back to the appeals court and told them try her again, then she was convicted again. That's the definition of Double Jeopardy. Try them again until you get the "right" results.
 
2014-01-30 07:58:00 PM  

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

I like how the article makes it clear (a couple times) that she doesn't plan on going back.  Is there really anybody reading the article who thinks "OMG, now she has to go back to Italy and go to prison!"

Assuming she really is innocent...I think I'd just kick back and enjoy life as a "wanted murderer in Italy".  Might as well own it.  Of course, I'd be wary of ever traveling out of the country.  Not sure I'd ever trust any other country to NOT pack me up and send me to Italy.


Exactly. She'll need to stay in the US the rest of her life. Good thing it's a big country.
 
2014-01-30 07:58:24 PM  
So once everyone here has finished biatching and moaning about what should happen to her, we all have a vote and so Fark has final say? Is that how it works?


// methinks if Farkers had any say in the situation, she would probably be allowed to stay if she goes into porn.
 
2014-01-30 07:59:20 PM  

Bungles: This isn't double jeopardy, and the US has regularly extradited to Italy (with the sole time it wasn't observed because of it involved CIA agents). The only clause in the treaty even relating to anything like what you'd call "double jeopardy" is about crimes that have already been through the court system in the US/Italy and essentially would be retried in the country of extradition. Which isn't the case here.

You're not speaking from a position of knowledge here, you're making things up. It doesn't help Knox's case for her supporters just to make stuff up.


I'm curious how you state what just happened is not an invocation of Double Jeopardy. Please educate us.
 
2014-01-30 08:00:28 PM  

greentea1985: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

1st, there is very strong forensic evidence against Rudy Guede http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meredith_Kercher#Rudy_Guede alone while the evidence against Knox and Sollecto was weak at best. 2nd, in the US it is against the law to try someone twice for the same crime. If the prosecutors lose an appeal, they can't go to the Supreme Court and have the case tried again. If a conviction gets overturned, that's it, the person walks. Knox's conviction was overturned and she was declared innocent, then the supreme court sent it back to the appeals court and told them try her again, then she was convicted again. That's the definition of Double Jeopardy. Try them again until you get the "right" results.


We don't extradite people under those circumstances, any more than the Italians extradite people subject to the death penalty.
Seems to be a complicated concept to some people.
 
2014-01-30 08:03:49 PM  

walktoanarcade: Why is it so hard to believe?   The debil [sic] part is probably pure bunk, but what if it isn't? Some sick bastards actually do kill people in "rituals" on a fairly regular basis. Maybe you're weary and remember the cult hysteria of the 80s deep down inside?

It isn't like I'm faulting anyone for thinking she's innocent, as she may well be. Her story perfectly tickles my "Bitach Be-Guitly" bone.


Are you sure it doesn't tickle your "I want this bitach to be guilty" bone?  I wouldn't fault you, it's highly salacious, would make a great movie.  We all like lurid stories.  Perhaps, though, we should define what you mean when you refer to the sick bastards who actually do kill people in rituals on a fairly regular basis.  What rituals?  What's a "regular basis" to you?  I see a lot of that crap on TV shows, but very rarely in real life except for in travesties of justice like the afore-mentioned West Memphis 3 back in the '80s.

I was friends with the local fetish troupe back in college (well, mostly due to my eventually-to-be-wife) and I have trouble believing the sex game idea from my experience with them.  Because as a group they were both careful, and consensual, and, as a group, most everybody who was not into that scene balked at the idea.

That is, of course, purely anecdotal, and if there was much of anything other than a couple loose connections and some shaky aspects of her interrogation story, I'd be less inclined to discount the idea.  But there really isn't, and as documented there's another person who really Does seem to have killed the girl, under much more common (but admittedly mundane and less-lurid) motives of robbery and rape.
 
2014-01-30 08:04:17 PM  

LrdPhoenix: borg: The US extradited John Demjanjuk to Germany after he was acquitted in an Israeli court.

Those were two separate charges for two separate things (Well, similar, but separate. Israel thought he a specific nazi guard at a concentration camp who he likely wasn't, Germany thought he was a totally different nazi guard at another concentration camp) made by two separate governments.


Also, when he was extradited to Germany, he was a stateless person.  His U.S citizenship was revoked in the late 70s, restored in 1998, and revoked again about 5 years later.
  There's also a bit of difference between being accused of working as a guard in Nazi death camps, and a murder trial based on flimsy evidence and fantastical claims by the prosecution that have no evidence to support them whatsoever.
 
2014-01-30 08:05:42 PM  

jso2897: We don't extradite people under those circumstances, any more than the Italians extradite people subject to the death penalty.
Seems to be a complicated concept to some people.


I think it's funny how they think the death penalty is so abhorrent, but they seem to have no problem with ruining innocent people's lives, just as long as it's not an execution.
 
2014-01-30 08:05:55 PM  

hardinparamedic: Bungles: This isn't double jeopardy, and the US has regularly extradited to Italy (with the sole time it wasn't observed because of it involved CIA agents). The only clause in the treaty even relating to anything like what you'd call "double jeopardy" is about crimes that have already been through the court system in the US/Italy and essentially would be retried in the country of extradition. Which isn't the case here.

You're not speaking from a position of knowledge here, you're making things up. It doesn't help Knox's case for her supporters just to make stuff up.

I'm curious how you state what just happened is not an invocation of Double Jeopardy. Please educate us.


It doesn't matter - it only matters that WE THINK IT IS. We don't hold the death penalty to be inhumane and unacceptable - but the Italians do - that's why they won't extradite people who we might put to death.
They don't observe the treaty when it conflicts with their values - why should we?
 
2014-01-30 08:06:54 PM  
Bungles:

This isn't double jeopardy,


You do understand that words have meanings, right?
 
2014-01-30 08:07:16 PM  

jso2897: Bungles: jso2897: Bungles: flondrix: Bungles: Ummmm, an Appeal Court and a Supreme Court reviewing cases isn't double jeopardy, no matter how easy a sound bite that makes.


So are you going on record as predicting she will be extradited?


Good lord no, I think it very, very unlikely she'll be extradited, but that's for political reasons at the discretion of John Kerry, not because of issues of alleged "double jeopardy".

MagicianNamedGob:

I think you are speaking without knowledge. Here is the opinion of someone with knowledge:

It is unlikely that Knox, who lives in Seattle, Washington, will return to Italy to serve additional prison time because U.S. law dictates that a person cannot be tried twice on the same charge, a legal expert told CNN. He believes that if Italy were to ask for extradition, U.S. officials would deny the request. "She was once put in jeopardy and later acquitted," said Sean Casey, a former prosecutor who is now a partner at Kobre & Kim in New York. "Under the treaty, extradition should not be granted."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/30/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox-retrial /



That's not a common view. Is Mr Casey an expert in extradition law?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10607883/ Wh at-next-for-Amanda-Knox.html

Some lawyers and supporters of Ms Knox have argued that having been acquitted in 2011, she would be protected under the US Constitution from "double jeopardy" - being tried twice for the same charge.
Yet the US-Italy extradition treaty only protects Americans from extradition to face prosecution again in Italy for an offence that has already been dealt with by the US legal system. "This is not applicable in this situation," said Professor Julian Ku, who teaches transnational law at Hofstra University.
For extradition candidates like Ms Knox who have already been convicted, the treaty states that Italy must merely produce "a brief statement of the facts of the case," as well as the text of the laws governing the crime committed, the punishment it would receive, and its statute of limitations.
Her conviction would "easily satisfy the conditions of the treaty," said Prof Ku. "So it would be hard for the US to explain why she should not be handed over".



She won't be extradited, but that will be because John Kerry chooses not to, rather than his hand being forced by pretending this is a double jeopardy issue.
 
2014-01-30 08:11:02 PM  

VladTheEmailer: methinks if Farkers had any say in the situation, she would probably be allowed to stay if she goes into porn.


She says the prison docs measured her poon and another bisexual inmate tried to make out with her, so there's that.

/poon
 
2014-01-30 08:11:15 PM  

hardinparamedic: Bungles: This isn't double jeopardy, and the US has regularly extradited to Italy (with the sole time it wasn't observed because of it involved CIA agents). The only clause in the treaty even relating to anything like what you'd call "double jeopardy" is about crimes that have already been through the court system in the US/Italy and essentially would be retried in the country of extradition. Which isn't the case here.

You're not speaking from a position of knowledge here, you're making things up. It doesn't help Knox's case for her supporters just to make stuff up.

I'm curious how you state what just happened is not an invocation of Double Jeopardy. Please educate us.


I've already explained the reasons I don't believe it is, and why very little of the legal comment thinks it is (outside US 24/7 news hired gun bloviators).

This is the final appeal stage of the same trial. It isn't a separate trial. It's a tri-part appeal system. She was not "acquitted" in the US sense, she was (in a literal translation) "acquitted subject to appeal" in the second stage of the three part process.
 
2014-01-30 08:11:46 PM  
Bungles:

She won't be extradited, but that will be because John Kerry chooses not to, rather than his hand being forced by pretending this is a double jeopardy issue.

They may instead object on the basis that she did not receive a fair trial which would be more a finger in Italy's eye and also, by the way, true. Here's an expert giving that opinion:

I predict that, even if she is convicted in absentia, there's no way that Knox will be extradited back to Italy to serve her sentence. Knox is a cause célèbre in the U.S., and her partisans will exert significant pressure on the government to deny any extradition request. Article X of
More likely is that, if Knox is convicted again, Italy won't even bother requesting her extradition. Doing so would cause a small but real international incident, something that both nations would prefer to avoid. The two countries will reach some sort of agreement, and Knox will never spend another day in an Italian jail.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/03/26/meredith_kercher_murder_ ca se_amanda_knox_will_never_be_extradited_to_italy.html
 
2014-01-30 08:12:59 PM  

China White Tea: Bungles:

This isn't double jeopardy,


You do understand that words have meanings, right?


Yes, and if you actually read my posts (and the 99% of the posts on virtually any int.law forum with a Knox thread) you'll see why few would say it is.
 
2014-01-30 08:13:48 PM  

Bungles: She won't be extradited, but that will be because John Kerry chooses not to, rather than his hand being forced by pretending this is a double jeopardy issue


Maybe she'll dance for him reeeeeeal slow in appreciation. Make him forget all his Abbas/Netanyahu troubles.
 
2014-01-30 08:14:08 PM  

Bungles: She won't be extradited, but that will be because John Kerry chooses not to, rather than his hand being forced by pretending this is a double jeopardy issue.


It is double jeopardy under our law - just as the death penalty is, under theirs. And the John Kerry crap is just paranoid nonsense.
You admit that there is no real chance that Knox will ever be extradited, but invent a convenient plot by The Evil John Kerry.
So, you have created a narrative where you can be dead wrong, but still call yourself right.
Well - no point in my arguing with you further.
 
2014-01-30 08:15:32 PM  

keepitcherry: Cyclometh: The Italian justice system seems, from an outside observer's viewpoint, to be not only completely incompetent and capricious, but deeply corrupt.

So what you're saying is it's just like ours?


Nah, Italy has the US beat by miles in the "shiatty justice system" department.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/22/us-italy-earthquake-court- id USBRE89L13V20121022

The US justice system is shiat, but Italy is pants-on-head farktarded.
 
2014-01-30 08:16:58 PM  

MagicianNamedGob: Bungles:

She won't be extradited, but that will be because John Kerry chooses not to, rather than his hand being forced by pretending this is a double jeopardy issue.

They may instead object on the basis that she did not receive a fair trial which would be more a finger in Italy's eye and also, by the way, true. Here's an expert giving that opinion:

I predict that, even if she is convicted in absentia, there's no way that Knox will be extradited back to Italy to serve her sentence. Knox is a cause célèbre in the U.S., and her partisans will exert significant pressure on the government to deny any extradition request. Article X of
More likely is that, if Knox is convicted again, Italy won't even bother requesting her extradition. Doing so would cause a small but real international incident, something that both nations would prefer to avoid. The two countries will reach some sort of agreement, and Knox will never spend another day in an Italian jail.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/03/26/meredith_kercher_murder_ ca se_amanda_knox_will_never_be_extradited_to_italy.html


That's also a possibility, but I honestly have no knowledge over how Italian law dictates how extradition requests are made: I don't know if they'll *have* to issue one, even if they don't wish to for political reasons, because of the wording of the law.

I think it's more likely they will, and it will quietly rot on Kerry's desk under the fog of "negotiations", so no side loses face.
 
2014-01-30 08:17:05 PM  

MagicianNamedGob: Bungles:

She won't be extradited, but that will be because John Kerry chooses not to, rather than his hand being forced by pretending this is a double jeopardy issue.

They may instead object on the basis that she did not receive a fair trial which would be more a finger in Italy's eye and also, by the way, true. Here's an expert giving that opinion:

I predict that, even if she is convicted in absentia, there's no way that Knox will be extradited back to Italy to serve her sentence. Knox is a cause célèbre in the U.S., and her partisans will exert significant pressure on the government to deny any extradition request. Article X of
More likely is that, if Knox is convicted again, Italy won't even bother requesting her extradition. Doing so would cause a small but real international incident, something that both nations would prefer to avoid. The two countries will reach some sort of agreement, and Knox will never spend another day in an Italian jail.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/03/26/meredith_kercher_murder_ ca se_amanda_knox_will_never_be_extradited_to_italy.html


This part was cut out of my paste:

Article X of the current U.S. Italy extradition treaty states that the requesting nation must present a case summary that provides "a reasonable basis to believe that the person sought committed the offense for which extradition is requested." The United States will probably use this as grounds for blocking Knox's extradition.
 
2014-01-30 08:18:29 PM  

jso2897: Bungles: She won't be extradited, but that will be because John Kerry chooses not to, rather than his hand being forced by pretending this is a double jeopardy issue.

It is double jeopardy under our law - just as the death penalty is, under theirs. And the John Kerry crap is just paranoid nonsense.
You admit that there is no real chance that Knox will ever be extradited, but invent a convenient plot by The Evil John Kerry.
So, you have created a narrative where you can be dead wrong, but still call yourself right.
Well - no point in my arguing with you further.


Ummm, it's nothing to do with "evil John Kerry". I rather like John Kerry. it's just that it's his decision. That's how your system works, if you're not familiar...
 
2014-01-30 08:19:22 PM  
She's smoking hot, so she's staying put right here in the USA.
 
2014-01-30 08:20:34 PM  

Bungles: China White Tea: Bungles:

This isn't double jeopardy,


You do understand that words have meanings, right?

Yes, and if you actually read my posts (and the 99% of the posts on virtually any int.law forum with a Knox thread) you'll see why few would say it is.


So she was never declared not guilty on an appeal of the case, and then tried again for the same charge she was found not guilty on?
 
2014-01-30 08:21:58 PM  
 
2014-01-30 08:24:54 PM  

MagicianNamedGob: MagicianNamedGob: Bungles:

She won't be extradited, but that will be because John Kerry chooses not to, rather than his hand being forced by pretending this is a double jeopardy issue.

They may instead object on the basis that she did not receive a fair trial which would be more a finger in Italy's eye and also, by the way, true. Here's an expert giving that opinion:

I predict that, even if she is convicted in absentia, there's no way that Knox will be extradited back to Italy to serve her sentence. Knox is a cause célèbre in the U.S., and her partisans will exert significant pressure on the government to deny any extradition request. Article X of
More likely is that, if Knox is convicted again, Italy won't even bother requesting her extradition. Doing so would cause a small but real international incident, something that both nations would prefer to avoid. The two countries will reach some sort of agreement, and Knox will never spend another day in an Italian jail.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/03/26/meredith_kercher_murder_ ca se_amanda_knox_will_never_be_extradited_to_italy.html

This part was cut out of my paste:

Article X of the current U.S. Italy extradition treaty states that the requesting nation must present a case summary that provides "a reasonable basis to believe that the person sought committed the offense for which extradition is requested." The United States will probably use this as grounds for blocking Knox's extradition.


Look - you are trying to talk sense to someone who seems to think that Italy has worked out a deal with the most powerful nation on Earth by which they can routinely ignore our requests for extradition, but we are obligated to honor theirs. This person also seems to think that under American law, that someone who has appealed a criminal conviction and won is still subject to being taken back to court on the same charges. And he keeps describing the process of Italian law as if that is relevant to whether we would extradited. And to top it off, he has informed us that when he turns out to be wrong, he will still be right because John Kerry did it because reasons - vague, unspecific  reasons.
 
2014-01-30 08:28:31 PM  

Bungles: jso2897: Bungles: She won't be extradited, but that will be because John Kerry chooses not to, rather than his hand being forced by pretending this is a double jeopardy issue.

It is double jeopardy under our law - just as the death penalty is, under theirs. And the John Kerry crap is just paranoid nonsense.
You admit that there is no real chance that Knox will ever be extradited, but invent a convenient plot by The Evil John Kerry.
So, you have created a narrative where you can be dead wrong, but still call yourself right.
Well - no point in my arguing with you further.

Ummm, it's nothing to do with "evil John Kerry". I rather like John Kerry. it's just that it's his decision. That's how your system works, if you're not familiar...


I know how the system works, professor. The point is, that if Kerry makes that decision, it will be for the simple, obvious reason that it is the right one. She is not subject to extradition under these circumstances. Kerry will not extradite her, because he should not. You can't provide any evidence to the contrary.
 
2014-01-30 08:32:27 PM  
Actually, if Kerry really did refuse to extradite a murderer who was actually subject to extradition, he would be "evil John Kerry".
But that's not the situation.
 
2014-01-30 08:34:47 PM  

Moopy Mac: Gyrfalcon: Didn't the "evidence" in this case come down to "someone said she once heard Knox say something bad about the victim" and also she didn't "act right" after the homicide; so clearly she's a depraved killer?

She was tried by the Italian (and English) tabloids.



Look, she clearly has terminal prostate cancer, and probably has three months to live. The British tabloids should be pushing for her release on compassionate grounds.

Also, she may have lots of oil.
 
2014-01-30 08:34:56 PM  

hardinparamedic: Bungles: China White Tea: Bungles:

This isn't double jeopardy,


You do understand that words have meanings, right?

Yes, and if you actually read my posts (and the 99% of the posts on virtually any int.law forum with a Knox thread) you'll see why few would say it is.

So she was never declared not guilty on an appeal of the case, and then tried again for the same charge she was found not guilty on?


No, that's the point. She was "Acquitted pending appeal", which gives her travel rights, and which some of the more lightweight news channels reported as "acquitted", because there's no exact analogue in the US. I made this point repeatedly in the last thread an age ago, that the trial was still technically on-going, and was repeatedly shouted down with the "She's free! She's cleared! Shut up!" shouting.

It was the second stage in a tri-part review. It's the same trial. The equivalent in the US would be like saying verdict and sentencing are different trials in the US, because they often happen separately. They're not. They're stages in the same trial, it's just the US chooses to usually separate them.


This is nothing to do with my opinion on her guilt or innocence, it's just the bald facts of what's actually, technically, going on here.
 
2014-01-30 08:39:00 PM  

jso2897: Bungles: jso2897: Bungles: She won't be extradited, but that will be because John Kerry chooses not to, rather than his hand being forced by pretending this is a double jeopardy issue.

It is double jeopardy under our law - just as the death penalty is, under theirs. And the John Kerry crap is just paranoid nonsense.
You admit that there is no real chance that Knox will ever be extradited, but invent a convenient plot by The Evil John Kerry.
So, you have created a narrative where you can be dead wrong, but still call yourself right.
Well - no point in my arguing with you further.

Ummm, it's nothing to do with "evil John Kerry". I rather like John Kerry. it's just that it's his decision. That's how your system works, if you're not familiar...

I know how the system works, professor. The point is, that if Kerry makes that decision, it will be for the simple, obvious reason that it is the right one. She is not subject to extradition under these circumstances. Kerry will not extradite her, because he should not. You can't provide any evidence to the contrary.



The system isn't based on your gut feeling on what the "right" one is or not, it's based on a) the legal wording of the extradition treaty (which would suggest extradition) and b) the internal US politics of a popular figure being extradited (which would suggests no extradition).

The balance he chooses, I suspect, will be the latter.
 
2014-01-30 08:40:21 PM  
What most Americans fail to realise is that sexual excess and unclean-ness are quite repulsive to Europeans & other cultures.[ongoing 3ways-4ways with casual pickups at a tavern, drugs, weapons, etc]

She was supposedly a -student- not a ho.

I blame her Mother 100% for sending her there and failing to raise her with some kind of moral structure. [like mother, like daughter]

Falsely framing a casual sex partner[bar owner] for the murder did not win her any sympathy either.
If this had happened in the US she would have been convicted, albeit less colorfully.

She will be extradited in about 18 mo.[after final appeal] Read the US law.
Most folks know what she & the 4 some were up to & how it got out of hand.
That was no problem for Italian Polizza to figure out.
They got a little outraged & bumbled a bit, but no one was fooled by her stories.

if this sounds harsh, it is what 90% of those who heard the news think....
 
2014-01-30 08:40:49 PM  
Ultimately it doesn't matter what the treaty says.  The US will not extradite Amanda Knox and Italy won't push the issue because they got what they wanted already in a criminal conviction. The Italian government and prosecutors don't really care that they won't have to feed , house, and provide medical care for her for the next dozen years.  The only thing the government cared about is not having to admit that the police and prosecutors flubbed this case horribly and imprisoned Knox and Sollecito wrongfully.  Sadly for Sollecito  he is going to face the consequences for being at the wrong place and wrong time and for the hubris of prosecutors who wanted some extra scalps after they convicted the person who actually did the offense.
 
2014-01-30 08:41:25 PM  

SirEattonHogg: Does anyone other than the Italians, actually think that the Italian justice system didn't horribly botch the hell out of the entire case?


This was Texas-style Justice, where she was found guilty of the murder because she and her boyfriend performed some sort of satanic orgy ritual and didn't love baby Jesus and whatever else sticks to the wall is enough to convict them.
 
2014-01-30 08:42:19 PM  
jso2897:
It doesn't matter - it only matters that WE THINK IT IS. We don't hold the death penalty to be inhumane and unacceptable - but the Italians do - that's why they won't extradite people who we might put to death.
They don't observe the treaty when it conflicts with their values - why should we?


Uh, the extradition treaty explicitly states in Article IX that either party doesn't have to extradite someone for a crime where they might face the death penalty if they wouldn't face the death penalty for the same crime in the country they're going to be extradited from.  In fact, it states that it will be refused.  So, not extraditing people if they might face the death penalty here is completely within the terms of the treaty so long as Italy doesn't have the death penalty on the table for it.

Here are the exact words:
ARTICLE IX
Capital Punishment
When the offense for which extradition is requested is punishable by death under the laws of the requesting Party and the laws of the requested
Party do not provide for such punishment for that offense, extradition shall be refused unless the requesting Party provides such assurances as
the requested Party considers sufficient that the death penalty shall not be imposed, or, if imposed, shall not be executed.
 
2014-01-30 08:42:21 PM  
this thread is terrible and i farking hate all of you
 
2014-01-30 08:45:25 PM  
And just to add to the fun, she gets an increased sentence of 28.5 years now.

Guess no credit for time served, eh?

http://gma.yahoo.com/amanda-knox-39-frightened-39-guilty-verdict-28- 21 1609951--abc-news-topstories.html
 
2014-01-30 08:46:24 PM  

Bungles: hardinparamedic: Bungles: China White Tea: Bungles:

This isn't double jeopardy,


You do understand that words have meanings, right?

Yes, and if you actually read my posts (and the 99% of the posts on virtually any int.law forum with a Knox thread) you'll see why few would say it is.

So she was never declared not guilty on an appeal of the case, and then tried again for the same charge she was found not guilty on?

No, that's the point. She was "Acquitted pending appeal", which gives her travel rights, and which some of the more lightweight news channels reported as "acquitted", because there's no exact analogue in the US. I made this point repeatedly in the last thread an age ago, that the trial was still technically on-going, and was repeatedly shouted down with the "She's free! She's cleared! Shut up!" shouting.

It was the second stage in a tri-part review. It's the same trial. The equivalent in the US would be like saying verdict and sentencing are different trials in the US, because they often happen separately. They're not. They're stages in the same trial, it's just the US chooses to usually separate them.


This is nothing to do with my opinion on her guilt or innocence, it's just the bald facts of what's actually, technically, going on here.


It's less clear than this. You're right that there's no American analog which is what makes this tricky. In the U.S. an appellate court would not review evidence, it would say that the trial was procedurally defective and order a do-over. But the Italian appeals court did consider evidence and ruled that there was not enough evidence needed to convict Knox and Solecito and thus acquitted them. No new trial needed. But as you point out, that decision was subject to appeal. The U.S. may (and according to many experts will) say that an acquittal by a fact finder triggers double jeopardy. But for what it's worth apparently Alan Dershowitz thinks you're right.
 
2014-01-30 08:47:05 PM  

Bungles: r1niceboy: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

I'm British and I think the British media have done everything but brand her as a witch because the victim was British. The US media seemed to want the trial to go on forever ending with her conviction. Then they could play the victim card. Truth told, nobody is sure whether she did it unless they had a horse in the race, in which case she's either an angel or a demon in human form.

I think that's an odd position to hold. I'm also British, and apart from the "Foxy Knoxy" headlines in the first few weeks, I think the British tabloids have been incredibly, bizarrely, restrained. It's almost a non-story. Which is, considering the British tabloids, odd.


I was there during the original trial, and in the US for the aftermath. The contrasts were stark, I can assure you. I think the US were in doubt, whereas the British tabloids were lingering over the evidence of the prosecution and dismissive of the defense's efforts. The Foxy Knoxy was also a bit odd as she was as sexy as a potato and about as intelligent.
 
2014-01-30 08:49:26 PM  

r1niceboy: Bungles: r1niceboy: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

I'm British and I think the British media have done everything but brand her as a witch because the victim was British. The US media seemed to want the trial to go on forever ending with her conviction. Then they could play the victim card. Truth told, nobody is sure whether she did it unless they had a horse in the race, in which case she's either an angel or a demon in human form.

I think that's an odd position to hold. I'm also British, and apart from the "Foxy Knoxy" headlines in the first few weeks, I think the British tabloids have been incredibly, bizarrely, restrained. It's almost a non-story. Which is, considering the British tabloids, odd.

I was there during the original trial, and in the US for the aftermath. The contrasts were stark, I can assure you. I think the US were in doubt, whereas the British tabloids were lingering over the evidence of the prosecution and dismissive of the defense's efforts. The Foxy Knoxy was also a bit odd as she was as sexy as a potato and about as intelligent.


Do you have any idea how sexy Brits find potatoes?
 
2014-01-30 08:53:48 PM  

MagicianNamedGob: Bungles: hardinparamedic: Bungles: China White Tea: Bungles:

This isn't double jeopardy,


You do understand that words have meanings, right?

Yes, and if you actually read my posts (and the 99% of the posts on virtually any int.law forum with a Knox thread) you'll see why few would say it is.

So she was never declared not guilty on an appeal of the case, and then tried again for the same charge she was found not guilty on?

No, that's the point. She was "Acquitted pending appeal", which gives her travel rights, and which some of the more lightweight news channels reported as "acquitted", because there's no exact analogue in the US. I made this point repeatedly in the last thread an age ago, that the trial was still technically on-going, and was repeatedly shouted down with the "She's free! She's cleared! Shut up!" shouting.

It was the second stage in a tri-part review. It's the same trial. The equivalent in the US would be like saying verdict and sentencing are different trials in the US, because they often happen separately. They're not. They're stages in the same trial, it's just the US chooses to usually separate them.


This is nothing to do with my opinion on her guilt or innocence, it's just the bald facts of what's actually, technically, going on here.

It's less clear than this. You're right that there's no American analog which is what makes this tricky. In the U.S. an appellate court would not review evidence, it would say that the trial was procedurally defective and order a do-over. But the Italian appeals court did consider evidence and ruled that there was not enough evidence needed to convict Knox and Solecito and thus acquitted them. No new trial needed. But as you point out, that decision was subject to appeal. The U.S. may (and according to many experts will) say that an acquittal by a fact finder triggers double jeopardy. But for what it's worth apparently Alan Dershowitz thinks you're right.


Given that this isn't a new thing in the Italian court system to happen (it's pretty regular for internal trials to bounce through the stringed-out appeal system), unless the diplomats were drunk in the early 80s when the treaty was drafted, I can't see how the possibility of a normal part of the Italian system - if thought by the US to be double jeopardy - wouldn't have been explicitly outlined as such in the agreement.

US extradition treaties don't tend to be sloppy.
 
2014-01-30 08:54:28 PM  

Bungles: jso2897: Bungles: jso2897: Bungles: She won't be extradited, but that will be because John Kerry chooses not to, rather than his hand being forced by pretending this is a double jeopardy issue.

It is double jeopardy under our law - just as the death penalty is, under theirs. And the John Kerry crap is just paranoid nonsense.
You admit that there is no real chance that Knox will ever be extradited, but invent a convenient plot by The Evil John Kerry.
So, you have created a narrative where you can be dead wrong, but still call yourself right.
Well - no point in my arguing with you further.

Ummm, it's nothing to do with "evil John Kerry". I rather like John Kerry. it's just that it's his decision. That's how your system works, if you're not familiar...

I know how the system works, professor. The point is, that if Kerry makes that decision, it will be for the simple, obvious reason that it is the right one. She is not subject to extradition under these circumstances. Kerry will not extradite her, because he should not. You can't provide any evidence to the contrary.


The system isn't based on your gut feeling on what the "right" one is or not, it's based on a) the legal wording of the extradition treaty (which would suggest extradition) and b) the internal US politics of a popular figure being extradited (which would suggests no extradition).

The balance he chooses, I suspect, will be the latter.


There is nothing in our treaty with Italy that requires us to extradite people to them in violation of our basic legal principles, or that makes the same requirement of them. This is what actually happens, and has nothing to do with whatever you imagine the "wording of the treaty" to be. You neither know what the treaty says, nor possess the legal expertise to interpret it. Neither do I - but i can observe what happens - from time to time, the Italians will refuse to extradite someone here, and sometimes, we refuse to extradite someone there. and there is no uproar, no incident, no breach of relations. We all just let it slide because .....reasons.
Now I guess I am supposed to accept that this is a "violation" of the treaty, despite the fact that nothing ever happens over it, and the person asking me to believe it possesses no more knowledge of the law than I. But I do like the way you have conceded she won't be extradited, but somehow you're right anyway.
 
2014-01-30 09:01:34 PM  

jso2897: You neither know what the treaty says, nor possess the legal expertise to interpret it.


Actually, it's pretty simple stuff.  Only 10 pages long.  There's even a complete summary by the Justice Department.

http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/Italy%20International%20Extradition% 20 Treaty%20with%20the%20United%20States.pdf
 
2014-01-30 09:01:51 PM  

jso2897: Bungles: jso2897: Bungles: jso2897: Bungles: She won't be extradited, but that will be because John Kerry chooses not to, rather than his hand being forced by pretending this is a double jeopardy issue.

It is double jeopardy under our law - just as the death penalty is, under theirs. And the John Kerry crap is just paranoid nonsense.
You admit that there is no real chance that Knox will ever be extradited, but invent a convenient plot by The Evil John Kerry.
So, you have created a narrative where you can be dead wrong, but still call yourself right.
Well - no point in my arguing with you further.

Ummm, it's nothing to do with "evil John Kerry". I rather like John Kerry. it's just that it's his decision. That's how your system works, if you're not familiar...

I know how the system works, professor. The point is, that if Kerry makes that decision, it will be for the simple, obvious reason that it is the right one. She is not subject to extradition under these circumstances. Kerry will not extradite her, because he should not. You can't provide any evidence to the contrary.


The system isn't based on your gut feeling on what the "right" one is or not, it's based on a) the legal wording of the extradition treaty (which would suggest extradition) and b) the internal US politics of a popular figure being extradited (which would suggests no extradition).

The balance he chooses, I suspect, will be the latter.

There is nothing in our treaty with Italy that requires us to extradite people to them in violation of our basic legal principles, or that makes the same requirement of them. This is what actually happens, and has nothing to do with whatever you imagine the "wording of the treaty" to be. You neither know what the treaty says, nor possess the legal expertise to interpret it. Neither do I - but i can observe what happens - from time to time, the Italians will refuse to extradite someone here, and sometimes, we refuse to extradite someone there. and there is no upro ...


I'm not a lawyer specialising in transnational law in any sense, but I'm not unfamiliar with the various US-EU extradition treaties through my academic experience. I'm just saying what I think will happen. It is actually pretty unusual for the US to refuse an extradition request post-trial to Italy.
 
2014-01-30 09:01:57 PM  

LrdPhoenix: jso2897:
It doesn't matter - it only matters that WE THINK IT IS. We don't hold the death penalty to be inhumane and unacceptable - but the Italians do - that's why they won't extradite people who we might put to death.
They don't observe the treaty when it conflicts with their values - why should we?

Uh, the extradition treaty explicitly states in Article IX that either party doesn't have to extradite someone for a crime where they might face the death penalty if they wouldn't face the death penalty for the same crime in the country they're going to be extradited from.  In fact, it states that it will be refused.  So, not extraditing people if they might face the death penalty here is completely within the terms of the treaty so long as Italy doesn't have the death penalty on the table for it.

Here are the exact words:
ARTICLE IX
Capital Punishment
When the offense for which extradition is requested is punishable by death under the laws of the requesting Party and the laws of the requested
Party do not provide for such punishment for that offense, extradition shall be refused unless the requesting Party provides such assurances as
the requested Party considers sufficient that the death penalty shall not be imposed, or, if imposed, shall not be executed.


Article 7 states a discretionary ground for refusal of extradition. It
provides that extradition may
be refused when the person sought is being
proceeded against by the requested State for the same act.


in jeopardy in the requested State for the same offense"
 
2014-01-30 09:03:49 PM  

jso2897: LrdPhoenix: jso2897:
It doesn't matter - it only matters that WE THINK IT IS. We don't hold the death penalty to be inhumane and unacceptable - but the Italians do - that's why they won't extradite people who we might put to death.
They don't observe the treaty when it conflicts with their values - why should we?

Uh, the extradition treaty explicitly states in Article IX that either party doesn't have to extradite someone for a crime where they might face the death penalty if they wouldn't face the death penalty for the same crime in the country they're going to be extradited from.  In fact, it states that it will be refused.  So, not extraditing people if they might face the death penalty here is completely within the terms of the treaty so long as Italy doesn't have the death penalty on the table for it.

Here are the exact words:
ARTICLE IX
Capital Punishment
When the offense for which extradition is requested is punishable by death under the laws of the requesting Party and the laws of the requested
Party do not provide for such punishment for that offense, extradition shall be refused unless the requesting Party provides such assurances as
the requested Party considers sufficient that the death penalty shall not be imposed, or, if imposed, shall not be executed.

Article 7 states a discretionary ground for refusal of extradition. It
provides that extradition may
be refused when the person sought is being
proceeded against by the requested State for the same act.


in jeopardy in the requested State for the same offense"


That means being tried in Italy for a crime they have already been tired for in the US, which isn't relevant here.
 
2014-01-30 09:09:38 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.


Not really. We just want her out of jail so there's still a chance she'll do that Playboy spread.
 
2014-01-30 09:13:10 PM  

austin_millbarge: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Not really. We just want her out of jail so there's still a chance she'll do that Playboy spread.


I put it at 50/50 that this will be Kerry's official position.
 
2014-01-30 09:13:38 PM  

Bungles: jso2897: LrdPhoenix: jso2897:
It doesn't matter - it only matters that WE THINK IT IS. We don't hold the death penalty to be inhumane and unacceptable - but the Italians do - that's why they won't extradite people who we might put to death.
They don't observe the treaty when it conflicts with their values - why should we?

Uh, the extradition treaty explicitly states in Article IX that either party doesn't have to extradite someone for a crime where they might face the death penalty if they wouldn't face the death penalty for the same crime in the country they're going to be extradited from.  In fact, it states that it will be refused.  So, not extraditing people if they might face the death penalty here is completely within the terms of the treaty so long as Italy doesn't have the death penalty on the table for it.

Here are the exact words:
ARTICLE IX
Capital Punishment
When the offense for which extradition is requested is punishable by death under the laws of the requesting Party and the laws of the requested
Party do not provide for such punishment for that offense, extradition shall be refused unless the requesting Party provides such assurances as
the requested Party considers sufficient that the death penalty shall not be imposed, or, if imposed, shall not be executed.

Article 7 states a discretionary ground for refusal of extradition. It
provides that extradition may
be refused when the person sought is being
proceeded against by the requested State for the same act.


in jeopardy in the requested State for the same offense"

That means being tried in Italy for a crime they have already been tired for in the US, which isn't relevant here.


You're right - I need to quit posting. Can't copypasta, and can't even read. It was fun, but I can't brain anymore - guess we'll have to wait and see what happens - but then, we both have the same hunch about that.  I hope she didn't actually do it.
Imagine our embarrassment.
 
2014-01-30 09:15:39 PM  

Bungles: jso2897: LrdPhoenix: jso2897:
It doesn't matter - it only matters that WE THINK IT IS. We don't hold the death penalty to be inhumane and unacceptable - but the Italians do - that's why they won't extradite people who we might put to death.
They don't observe the treaty when it conflicts with their values - why should we?

Uh, the extradition treaty explicitly states in Article IX that either party doesn't have to extradite someone for a crime where they might face the death penalty if they wouldn't face the death penalty for the same crime in the country they're going to be extradited from.  In fact, it states that it will be refused.  So, not extraditing people if they might face the death penalty here is completely within the terms of the treaty so long as Italy doesn't have the death penalty on the table for it.

Here are the exact words:
ARTICLE IX
Capital Punishment
When the offense for which extradition is requested is punishable by death under the laws of the requesting Party and the laws of the requested
Party do not provide for such punishment for that offense, extradition shall be refused unless the requesting Party provides such assurances as
the requested Party considers sufficient that the death penalty shall not be imposed, or, if imposed, shall not be executed.

Article 7 states a discretionary ground for refusal of extradition. It
provides that extradition may
be refused when the person sought is being
proceeded against by the requested State for the same act.


in jeopardy in the requested State for the same offense"

That means being tried in Italy for a crime they have already been tired for in the US, which isn't relevant here.


Actually it means if someone commits the same offense against both the US and Italy (say, smuggling from one to the other or whatever) and we got a hold of them and are legally proceeding against them, Italy can go eat a dick if they want him, at least until we're done with them, and visa versa.

Not sure if it would apply to someone wanted for a murder here and a separate murder in Italy, and we're going ahead with charges already, etc. but probably.

Article 6 is the one he wants for double jeopardy.
 
2014-01-30 09:24:15 PM  
So I went and googled for some legal opinions, and found a bunch. And I am not less confused.
If all the experts ringing in on this were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion.
 
2014-01-30 09:39:55 PM  
Probably because in complex legal matters involving the laws of two separate nations there rarely is anything remotely resembling a cut and dried conclusion.  Which, I suppose, can be applied to a lot of things and not just complex legal matters involving the laws of two nations.

I don't think she'll be extradited.  As far as I'm concerned, as soon as they turned her loose and she stepped foot back on US soil, she's a free woman.
 
2014-01-30 09:46:38 PM  
i141.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-30 09:50:36 PM  

jonas opines: walktoanarcade: Why is it so hard to believe?   The debil [sic] part is probably pure bunk, but what if it isn't? Some sick bastards actually do kill people in "rituals" on a fairly regular basis. Maybe you're weary and remember the cult hysteria of the 80s deep down inside?

It isn't like I'm faulting anyone for thinking she's innocent, as she may well be. Her story perfectly tickles my "Bitach Be-Guitly" bone.

Are you sure it doesn't tickle your "I want this bitach to be guilty" bone?


Why would I want her to be guilty?   There's lots of questionable stuff that I can and cannot prove, but none of it makes me want for any of the good to be bad. Just like people may fascinate, offend, amaze, or even scare me, none of them (owed of a pretty face, no less) make me want to banish my logic and go for the sleazy, easy balm of brainless witch-hunting.

And if I am wrong, she should disappear before she gets nabbed.
 
2014-01-30 09:51:41 PM  

LrdPhoenix: As far as I'm concerned, as soon as they turned her loose and she stepped foot back on US soil, she's a free woman.


I'm pretty sure they knew that too, this is just for show.
 
2014-01-30 09:52:14 PM  

Bonanza Jellybean: this thread is terrible and i farking hate all of you


{{HUGS}}
 
2014-01-30 09:53:10 PM  

CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.


Mmmk.  How about this detailed breakdown...

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI2.html

How's that work for you?
 
2014-01-30 09:54:13 PM  

AMANDA KNOX

MURDERED

TRAYVON MARTIN!

 
2014-01-30 10:07:43 PM  

The_Original_Roxtar: AMANDA KNOX MURDERED TRAYVON MARTIN!


Not bad but needs more Nancy Grace.
 
2014-01-30 10:13:43 PM  

Bonanza Jellybean: this thread is terrible and i farking hate all of you


Look, I just want to see her grainy amateur fetish prison sex tapes uploaded to xhamster. After that you can convict her of dognapping for all I care. Is that really so wrong?
 
2014-01-30 10:14:13 PM  
All the more reason for Americans to stay the fark out of Italy.
 
2014-01-30 10:20:57 PM  

Bungles: jso2897: Bungles: flondrix: Bungles: Ummmm, an Appeal Court and a Supreme Court reviewing cases isn't double jeopardy, no matter how easy a sound bite that makes.

In the US legal system, once there is an acquittal, the prosecution cannot "appeal"--at least for that crime.  The courts can try for a second round with charges like "violating the victim's civil rights" or "interfering with a crime scene" or some such.

But she wasn't tried in the US, she was tried in a country with a tri-part judicial system with in-built rounds of appeal. That isn't double jeopardy, nor would it be a surprise to the people who drafted the treaty. It's the natural course.

To make it equivalent, it would be like someone in Italy being outraged that someone in the US wasn't sentenced at verdict - and therefore should be set free - but rather at a later sentencing hearing, as if they're two separate trials. They aren't, they're part of the same multi-step process. It's exactly the same thing here: it's a multi-part judicial process.


Doesn't matter what the Italians think. We do not have a fully observed extradition treaty with them. they routinely refuse to extradite Americans who might face the death penalty - and America would be entirely within it's rights to withold extradition.
The Italians don't care that the DP is legal; under our system - and we don't care if double jeopardy is allowed under theirs.

This isn't double jeopardy, and the US has regularly extradited to Italy (with the sole time it wasn't observed because of it involved CIA agents). The only clause in the treaty even relating to anything like what you'd call "double jeopardy" is about crimes that have already been through the court system in the US/Italy and essentially would be retried in the country of extradition. Which isn't the case here.

You're not speaking from a position of knowledge here, you're making things up. It doesn't help Knox's case for her supporters just to make stuff up.


Why would that matter in a court of law?
 
2014-01-30 10:29:05 PM  

Bungles: jso2897: Bungles: jso2897: Bungles: flondrix: Bungles: Ummmm, an Appeal Court and a Supreme Court reviewing cases isn't double jeopardy, no matter how easy a sound bite that makes.


So are you going on record as predicting she will be extradited?

Good lord no, I think it very, very unlikely she'll be extradited, but that's for political reasons at the discretion of John Kerry, not because of issues of alleged "double jeopardy".

MagicianNamedGob:

I think you are speaking without knowledge. Here is the opinion of someone with knowledge:

It is unlikely that Knox, who lives in Seattle, Washington, will return to Italy to serve additional prison time because U.S. law dictates that a person cannot be tried twice on the same charge, a legal expert told CNN. He believes that if Italy were to ask for extradition, U.S. officials would deny the request. "She was once put in jeopardy and later acquitted," said Sean Casey, a former prosecutor who is now a partner at Kobre & Kim in New York. "Under the treaty, extradition should not be granted."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/30/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox-retrial /


That's not a common view. Is Mr Casey an expert in extradition law?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10607883/ Wh at-next-for-Amanda-Knox.html

Some lawyers and supporters of Ms Knox have argued that having been acquitted in 2011, she would be protected under the US Constitution from "double jeopardy" - being tried twice for the same charge.
Yet the US-Italy extradition treaty only protects Americans from extradition to face prosecution again in Italy for an offence that has already been dealt with by the US legal system. "This is not applicable in this situation," said Professor Julian Ku, who teaches transnational law at Hofstra University.
For extradition candidates like Ms Knox who have already been convicted, the treaty states that Italy must merely produce "a brief statement of the facts of the case," as well as the text of the ...


Lurch goes from being a butler to Boss Extraditor.  Only in America, man, only in America!
 
2014-01-30 10:33:58 PM  
no nok nok jokes
 
2014-01-30 10:35:15 PM  
Since she's local to my region, I can't really give an opinion without bias.  I have my doubts about almost everything to do with the case, from motive and evidence, to the prosecutor's public standing.  The local media also have a huge spin on her being not guilty.
 
zeg
2014-01-30 10:42:53 PM  

zimbomba63: Bungles: You're not speaking from a position of knowledge here, you're making things up. It doesn't help Knox's case for her supporters just to make stuff up.

Why would that matter in a court of law?


Well, strictly speaking it's true. It doesn't help.

It doesn't hurt either. It's utterly irrelevant.
 
2014-01-30 10:53:57 PM  

SlothB77: She's smoking hot, so she's staying put right here in the USA.


That would be British smoking hot, right?
 
2014-01-30 10:57:55 PM  
walktoanarcade:Why would I want her to be guilty?   There's lots of questionable stuff that I can and cannot prove, but none of it makes me want for any of the good to be bad. Just like people may fascinate, offend, amaze, or even scare me, none of them (owed of a pretty face, no less) make me want to banish my logic and go for the sleazy, easy balm of brainless witch-hunting.

But you really seem to be banishing your logic to go for the sleazy, easy balm of brainless witch-hunting.  Perhaps it's not you, though.  Perhaps, given that you paid attention to the media at the inception of this case, you've simply been exposed for too long to the sleazy and brainless witch-hunting brought to you by people who really, really REALLY want this bitatch to be guilty.  Consider the various narratives in the Trayvon Martin case, and how they were formed by the media's presentation of the case, and how many people came up with unshakeable convictions regarding the case based off of incomplete, and in some cases quite skewed presentations.

I barely knew about this case until a Fark link last year regarding the over-turning of the previous guilty verdict.  I don't know if that's really an advantage, but I can say this, by the time I started to read about it it seems that both sides, for and against her guilt, are pretty well on the table, and after reading them, the actual facts of the case, I cannot see how Anybody, looking at this with an objective mind, can find the prosecution's original story credible.  The amount of work she'd have to do to not leave any trace of her involvement in the argument or sex game leading up to the death, the total lack of physical evidence tying her to the crime -- she would have to be a genius, and a complete sociopath, to pull that off, and nothing else other than this case corroborates the idea that she is..  But she also has to be so bad at it that she screams "bitatch be guilty" from a mile away.  The alternative, as I see it, is that the prosecution's story is false, she didn't do it, the girl was murdered by one guy, and then this was driven largely by tabloids and one crazy-arse prosecutor to get the idea that she had anything to do with it.

There is a murder investigation going right now in my home town.  A very pretty female is accused of killing a middle-aged man.  She was found in Florida with weapons and drugs in her car, and one has been identified as probably the murder weapon.  I'm willing to believe she killed that guy, despite her being pretty.  Knox's case doesn't have anything to do with what she looks like.  It just looks absurd.  That's it.

Somebody posted this link above, with a good breakdown of what I see is the flaws:  http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI2.html

Look it over, and see if you can reconcile it with your hunch that she just seems guilty.  Or, if you know something the rest of us don't debunk the things mentioned in the link and offer a reasonable explanation.  There are reasonable explanations against all the reasons that people think Knox has been acting guilty.  They've been offered up several times in this thread.  What's missing are the reasonable explanation against all the physical evidence, based in our observable, physical reality, that it's virtually impossible that Knox killed that girl.  Can you fill that void?
 
2014-01-30 11:10:48 PM  
Well, bye.
 
2014-01-30 11:17:06 PM  
Good luck ever getting Snowden if the US does not extradite Knox.
 
2014-01-30 11:21:15 PM  
My favorite. People who blithely diarrhea ignorance and garbage for the soul purpose of "fishing" for outraged responses so you can be hi fived, and patted on the back for skills in trolling, and if you dare dream of challenging any aspect of their complete garbage you are dismissed as "having fallen for troll bait"

License to just be an ugly asshole on the internet. You are so farking cool, you're nine popped collars cool.
 
2014-01-30 11:25:15 PM  
It's really depressing to me that so many people are just mentally deranged (the conspiracy theorists!) or utterly incapable of critical thinking.

The cops clearly captured the murderer within days and he's currently serving time for the murder. None of the rest of the case makes any modicum of sense. There is no established motive, there's no confession, there's no murder weapon, there's no DNA evidence. There is literally nothing, in fact the man that was charged and sentence to murder didn't even implicate Amanda until after the police turned her into a suspect and went to interrogate him again!

To me, the above is the most telling incongruity. If they had Guede in custody and he was going to charged with murder, then wouldn't it be in his best interest to implicate the others in the murder? He could have even concocted a story like, "I was having sex with Meridith and then those two devil worshipping evil doers came in and attacked us - I fled for my life!" I mean, he'd have to be pretty creative/and or stupid, to think that something like that would fly with the police - but hey, evidently that was almost EXACTLY the scenario that the prosecution first proposed.

To me, the above is just a tiny bit of critical thinking. Not even very much, it just examines what we might consider people acting in their own rational self interest. It doesn't make sense for Guede to avoid the opportunity to shift blame from himself to others, assuming that he knew they were also present at the murder. It would logically be his first, best move to either shift suspicion or get a lighter sentence. The fact that it was actually the police who instigated this instead of him is absolutely bizarre.

The only conclusion you can logically make from the above is that there was no one that Guede was aware of that he could shift blame to, because he was alone when he committed the crime. The police literally handed him a reduced sentence on a platter for no other reason than the prosecutor seemed to be insane?
 
2014-01-30 11:30:08 PM  

MayoSlather: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

I realize there is a difference of opinion from overseas, but I don't get it. This isn't an OJ style case where there is definitive motive. I'd say there is legit reasonable doubt from the details I've heard, and she'd have to be quite the psychopath to have done what they claim. I simply find that unlikely.



I'm wondering how common this sort of 'justice' is for foreigners charged with any sort of major crime in Italy. I doubt if it's at all common - my assumption is that this is simply revenge for that cable car incident a decade or two ago.

Having said that, the court case was clearly a sham.
 
2014-01-30 11:41:02 PM  

jonas opines: Can you fill that void?


I can and I will with jelly beans.

Seriously, though, does it matter? Is Italy going to kidnap her?  If not, she should change her name and dye her hair and be done with it.

While on some level I'd love to pretend a familiarity with the case, I cannot, but I am going on my first impression of the case when it was new years ago based on information I read and heard at the time. At the time it seemed feasible that she committed the murder.

And there is one thing I can offer, but I don't pretend that I have anything concrete, it's something in her eyes.   I know something of how people react to the unexpected and something about her is off.

Maybe I'm wrong, but (get ready for a cliche) I come from a long line of people good at detecting bullshiat.  I could be perfectly wrong of course, and I admit that I haven't read a ton on the case, nothing new especially.
 
2014-01-30 11:44:42 PM  
I get the feeling that the Italian legal system is just going to rule in favor of whichever country most recently did a diplomatic full court press
 
2014-01-31 12:01:02 AM  

Giant Clown Shoe: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

Mmmk.  How about this detailed breakdown...

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI2.html

How's that work for you?


Thank you posting that link. My heart wants to cry for Amanda Knox now.
 
2014-01-31 12:02:01 AM  

Marmilman: Thank you for posting that link. My heart wants to cry for Amanda Knox now.


FTFM
 
2014-01-31 12:03:41 AM  

R.A.Danny: Does she still have a passport?

The United States maintains diplomatic relations but, according to the above-mentioned list, does not have extradition treaties with the following countries: Afghanistan, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Armenia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Botswana, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Cape Verde, the Central African Republic, Chad, China (except Hong Kong), Comoros, Congo (Kinshasa), Congo (Brazzaville), Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Indonesia, Ivory Coast, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Libya, Madagascar, Maldives, Mali, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Micronesia, Moldova, Mongolia, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Nepal, Niger, Oman, Qatar, Russia, Rwanda, Samoa, São Tomé & Príncipe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Slovenia,[7]Somalia, Sudan, South Sudan, Syria, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, Ukraine, the United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Vatican City, Vietnam, Yemen, and the countries formerly part of Yugoslavia: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro, and Serbia.



But the question is....... do any of Those countries have an extradition treaty with Italy???
 
2014-01-31 12:07:56 AM  

Giant Clown Shoe: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

Mmmk.  How about this detailed breakdown...

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI2.html

How's that work for you?


Works very well. Thanks.
 
2014-01-31 12:13:09 AM  

spiderpaz: hardinparamedic: TheBigJerk: Moopy Mac: wildcardjack: I still want to know how the cops came to think there was a drug fueled orgy involved. Methinks this sounds like projection of someone's deepest wishes.

The entire prosecution smacked of early 80s Memphis.

50s.  Don't forget for quite a while their creepy fanfiction of an accusation involved satanic blood orgies.

If you want to lose what little faith you can have in the US Justice system, watch West of Memphis, about the prosecution and incarceration of the West Memphis 3.

There are still people locally who argue they are guilty because they worshipped satan, and other nonsense that was quite literally beaten out of a borderline mentally retarded, scared teenager in a 20 hour interrogation.

Their case was literally "They play DooM, listen to devil music, and have long hair." And one of them got the death penalty for it.

Oh when we compare countries we can use examples from 50+ years ago for one and present day for the other and pretend that's legit?  When can we get to Germany?


20+ years ago.   The West Memphis 3 were convicted in '94 (I had to look that up).  You are confusing who was talking about what, I was speaking of when "Satanic cult" was a popular meme across America.   Hardinparamedickindly pointed out that when you actually stop and think about it, that period never really stopped.  Just trying to write this paragraph I realized, "nope, every way I try to describe the period of evangelical hysteria I am thinking of fails because the description is not clearly different from current evangelical hysteria."

Now this case is also Red State Retard-land we're talking about.  It is one case which was a small-town railroading of locals.  NOT an international case involving the highest court in the land.  Yet it still happened in America and according to the wikisthe farking best the (pretty clearly innocent) defendants could get after 20 years of fighting (it ended in 2011, less than three years ago) was a plea-bargain where the state said, "kiss my boots and say this was all your fault and I'll let you go," and they said, "yes master *kiss* *kiss*."

Hmm, speaking of unnecessarily creepy fanfiction...sorry about that.

Now this was largely tangential, the differences between these two gross miscarriages of justice are obvious, but it is a reminder, we got problems right here at home too.

And both of them stem from shiatbag fundies being anywhere near things better handled by adults.
 
2014-01-31 12:14:07 AM  
jonas opines:

...possible that Knox killed that girl.  Can you fill that void?

No one can fill her void until she speaks the whole Truth to the world.

In the US, being present or in [another room] during the murder and not stopping it or immediately calling the Law, covering up evidence, absconding from the scene, etc is enough to convict for that murder.

she & Ralph left their victim rotting in a pool of blood and degradation for others to find, blamed one person after another, etc.
If she had confessed and told the whole story truthfully, she might have got 5-10 yrs.
In the US & most other civilised nations, the admissions and evidence would have resulted in a conviction.
 
2014-01-31 12:39:40 AM  

Four Horsemen of the Domestic Dispute: And before you GRAMMAR NAZIs chime in.  Looks like I farked up the there/their/they're shiat

~~America is there their  sore soar spot.   They can't beat the king baby



Because we're on top.
 
2014-01-31 12:41:55 AM  
~~Knox ~~Knox ,
who is it,
-- Its 28 years of hardtime

~~Knox ~~Knox
who is it.

/ flaps, don't even know how to make a ~~Knox  joke, never mind
 
2014-01-31 12:45:29 AM  
Italy, if you knew how to stick to your guns you wouldn't look like such pussies.
 
2014-01-31 01:12:56 AM  

The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: Good luck ever getting Snowden if the US does not extradite Knox.


Those are... well... freakin' nothing alike, man. One's whistleblowing and international espionage. The other is someone ending up dead after what seems to be incredibly bizarre circumstances.

As for the Brits in this thread crying how Americans are defending a murderer, there are far more terrible things you should be decrying in this situation. Your Southern European buddies shiatfarked this situation so much that no one... Kercher, Knox, the public of three different nations... will get an ounce of true justice in any of this. If the conviction holds up under appeal, it will be because the Italians got around to making a theory stick to the wall. If it's struck down or if the US tells Italy to shove their extradition order up their asses, then a murderer might have gotten away with the crime. Of course, we'll never know, which is why Knox isn't the biggest villain in all of this. 

Sometimes it's hard to remember that Italy is actually a Western post-industrial nation.
 
2014-01-31 01:21:43 AM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: All the more reason for Americans to stay the fark out of Italy.


This.  I do my best to avoid third world shiat-hole countries like Italy.
 
2014-01-31 02:05:20 AM  

Warlordtrooper: Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: What_do_you_want_now: /Evidence was she had a fingerprint on a knife she owned in her apartment
//AFAIK wasn't even the murder weapon.

It was confirmed to not be the murder weapon. The murder weapon has never been found or presented in the case, as I understand it.

Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.

No, staying the US is her best option, but she can probably never leave. The US is not likely to extradite her simply because she was previously acquitted and to do so would violate our own principles of not allowing double jeopardy. Then you combine that with the extremely weak and mishandled evidence in the case and she's going to be ok staying here.

The us sends drones to execute its own citizens without trial It doesn't give a damn about whatever ideals we claim to believe in


2/10 ... weaksauce
 
2014-01-31 02:28:24 AM  
I find her quite foxy.
 
2014-01-31 02:34:22 AM  

flondrix: The Fett: Not every country operates on the principles of assumed innocence.


Neither does America.

At trial the presumption is not guilty and the assumption is guilty, no assumption no trial.

Outside the phrase "presumption of innocence" innocence and innocent are not legal terms
and have no legal meaning.

There is no search for or finding of innocent in our legal system.
 
2014-01-31 02:35:30 AM  
I can just see Italy's shiat judicial system if it went her way...


i59.tinypic.com
 
2014-01-31 02:48:17 AM  

zepillin: There is no search for or finding of innocent in our legal system.


Jury nullification being the rare exception.

"He's not guilty cause he's innocent, your law sucks and we are changing it."

I've always kinda liked that idea.
 
2014-01-31 04:39:39 AM  

TwistedFark: It's really depressing to me that so many people are just mentally deranged (the conspiracy theorists!) or utterly incapable of critical thinking.

The cops clearly captured the murderer within days and he's currently serving time for the murder. None of the rest of the case makes any modicum of sense. There is no established motive, there's no confession, there's no murder weapon, there's no DNA evidence. There is literally nothing, in fact the man that was charged and sentence to murder didn't even implicate Amanda until after the police turned her into a suspect and went to interrogate him again!

To me, the above is the most telling incongruity. If they had Guede in custody and he was going to charged with murder, then wouldn't it be in his best interest to implicate the others in the murder? He could have even concocted a story like, "I was having sex with Meridith and then those two devil worshipping evil doers came in and attacked us - I fled for my life!" I mean, he'd have to be pretty creative/and or stupid, to think that something like that would fly with the police - but hey, evidently that was almost EXACTLY the scenario that the prosecution first proposed.

To me, the above is just a tiny bit of critical thinking. Not even very much, it just examines what we might consider people acting in their own rational self interest. It doesn't make sense for Guede to avoid the opportunity to shift blame from himself to others, assuming that he knew they were also present at the murder. It would logically be his first, best move to either shift suspicion or get a lighter sentence. The fact that it was actually the police who instigated this instead of him is absolutely bizarre.

The only conclusion you can logically make from the above is that there was no one that Guede was aware of that he could shift blame to, because he was alone when he committed the crime. The police literally handed him a reduced sentence on a platter for no other reason than the prosecutor ...


 I can understand people that only ever heard whatever the local news media in some places decided to run with might believe she is the murderer, because some of them obviously created a very biased view of the events, so if you don't bother to dig into the details away from that, it is understandable you might think that, as that is what the news media wanted you to believe because it sells more copies.

However anyone that examines the basic details and timeline of the case and thinks Knox is guilty is about as sensible as a 9/11 truther, or a Moon landing hoax believer.
 
2014-01-31 04:51:01 AM  

zepillin: zepillin: There is no search for or finding of innocent in our legal system.

Jury nullification being the rare exception.

"He's not guilty cause he's innocent, your law sucks and we are changing it."

I've always kinda liked that idea.


Jury nullification doesn't mean anything of the sort, it is just a natural feature of a jury trial that generally the jury can find the defendant guilty or not guilty for any reasons they want  - like they might find the defendant not guilty because the victim was black, as happened many times in the past. Jury nullification isn't a good/bad thing, it can be abused just as easily as used for positive purposes.
 
2014-01-31 05:47:50 AM  

ElPresidente: Using a child's cartoon as a basis for an argument to try to prove you're intellectually superior is no way to go through life, son.


Here's a hint: I'm pretty sure it wasn't intended to be an argument. It's uncanny how some will act like jackasses and then will be terribly put off that so many people respond with little more than pointing and laughing. It's as if they think they're entitled to something better. From down in the hole you dug yourself into, condescension isn't really an option.
 
2014-01-31 06:13:51 AM  

Snarfangel: doubled99: Keep defending the murderer, Farkers! You all have your law GEDs after all.


American or Italian GED?



I dunno......


///......AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhh.............
 
2014-01-31 06:42:52 AM  
WHERE ARE THE PICS OF THE CHICK SHE MURDERED???

SHE was the HOT one!
 
2014-01-31 07:27:13 AM  
Hey Italy we will hand her over to you as soon as France sends Polanski back
 
2014-01-31 07:47:50 AM  

walktoanarcade: jonas opines: Can you fill that void?

Seriously, though, does it matter? Is Italy going to kidnap her?


There's an Italian man likely to spend 25 years in prison for no better reason than, apparently, "there was something in (his girlfriend's) eyes" that people didn't like.  Just because it doesn't affect me directly, I can still find that horrifying.  Because if it happens once, it can probably happen again.  And again and again.
 
2014-01-31 07:57:29 AM  

Cletus C.: Acquit her, convict her, let her stay here, extradite her. I don't much care. Whatever keeps her whiny face out of the spotlight forever is what I support.

[www.etonline.com image 640x380]


It would appear that, until recently, the most popular method was by facing her towards the headboard.
 
2014-01-31 08:28:00 AM  

Oldiron_79: ChrisDe: Good luck with getting her to come back to Italy.

Pretty sure the US has extradition treaty with Italy, so she would have to leave US to flee justice.


Like Roman Polanski had to flee Italy to avoid extradition to the U.. S.?
 
2014-01-31 08:28:28 AM  
plus she's not even remotely hot, you basement dwelling losers. farkin delusional.
 
2014-01-31 08:33:28 AM  
FWIW... there has actually been no "double jeopardy" thing.

She was tried and found guilty. She appealed, and the appeal was upheld. The Italian prosecution appealed against the appeal, and that appeal was upheld; i.e. the original appeal was quashed, thus the original trial result stood.

There has been one trial, not two.
 
2014-01-31 09:15:19 AM  
I don't care who she may have killed. I just want her to pose nude.

Is that so much to ask?
 
2014-01-31 09:30:23 AM  
 Do you really think the Italian justice system ThAT screwed up they would find her guilty twice.


Yes, it is.  Mignini is determined to find a sex orgy based murder.
 
2014-01-31 09:40:57 AM  

JSTACAT: jonas opines:

...possible that Knox killed that girl.  Can you fill that void?

No one can fill her void until she speaks the whole Truth to the world.

In the US, being present or in [another room] during the murder and not stopping it or immediately calling the Law, covering up evidence, absconding from the scene, etc is enough to convict for that murder.

she & Ralph left their victim rotting in a pool of blood and degradation for others to find, blamed one person after another, etc.
If she had confessed and told the whole story truthfully, she might have got 5-10 yrs.
In the US & most other civilised nations, the admissions and evidence would have resulted in a conviction.


Except that there's no good evidence that either Knox or Sollecito were present during the murder or had anything to do with it.
 
2014-01-31 09:41:12 AM  

ElPresidente: Maud Dib: ElPresidente:

Hmmmm...my phone's still not ringing. What a surprise.

You've got nothing.

On the contrary - I have two things you don't. An independent unbiased mind and the good sense not to argue with someone who doesn't - you.


You've already been outed....


*favorited!*

No time for tards.
 
2014-01-31 09:47:00 AM  

JSTACAT: What most Americans fail to realise is that sexual excess and unclean-ness are quite repulsive to Europeans & other cultures.[ongoing 3ways-4ways with casual pickups at a tavern, drugs, weapons, etc]

She was supposedly a -student- not a ho.

I blame her Mother 100% for sending her there and failing to raise her with some kind of moral structure. [like mother, like daughter]

Falsely framing a casual sex partner[bar owner] for the murder did not win her any sympathy either.
If this had happened in the US she would have been convicted, albeit less colorfully.

She will be extradited in about 18 mo.[after final appeal] Read the US law.
Most folks know what she & the 4 some were up to & how it got out of hand.
That was no problem for Italian Polizza to figure out.
They got a little outraged & bumbled a bit, but no one was fooled by her stories.

if this sounds harsh, it is what 90% of those who heard the news think....


Not harsh, crazy. It's bullshiat. It shows many Europeans to be as sexist, xenophobic, gullible puritans as any provincial American.
 
2014-01-31 10:22:42 AM  

MagicianNamedGob: JSTACAT: j the admissions and evidence would have resulted in a conviction.

Except that there's no good evidence that either Knox or Sollecito were present during the murder or had anything to do with it.


They both confessed they were at least in earshot.
Amanda bears the burden to "tell all" especially now, she has nothing to lose by truth, and a clear conscience to gain.

If she wants to rescue [if you could call it that] her time on the world stage, now is the time to come clean and demonstrate the power of conscience and ethics, even the Power of G-D.
That is what i sincerely hope for her.
When/if she tells ALL the truth, it will ring clear and loud as genuine.
 
2014-01-31 10:33:51 AM  

JSTACAT: MagicianNamedGob: JSTACAT: j the admissions and evidence would have resulted in a conviction.

Except that there's no good evidence that either Knox or Sollecito were present during the murder or had anything to do with it.

They both confessed they were at least in earshot.
Amanda bears the burden to "tell all" especially now, she has nothing to lose by truth, and a clear conscience to gain.

If she wants to rescue [if you could call it that] her time on the world stage, now is the time to come clean and demonstrate the power of conscience and ethics, even the Power of G-D.
That is what i sincerely hope for her.
When/if she tells ALL the truth, it will ring clear and loud as genuine.


Here's the truth: it's happened numerous times before, but it has been said the Italian investigators tend to get their jobs because of people they know, not because of competence.  When there's something that's a high profile case, all of the fark ups are revealed, so they leak "information" to the press and try to pin guilt on whoever they have in custody.  Usually the judges are friends of the prosecutors and investigators, so the verdict they want is often ready to go, so long as the media plays along.  This international case, though, put too much pressure on the system, and there was serious doubt about Knox having anything to do with Kercher's death.

What we do know, though, is that, historically, this has been the case.

Really, people need to read The Monster of Florence before they make any comments on Knox's guilt.
 
2014-01-31 10:37:32 AM  

JSTACAT: MagicianNamedGob: JSTACAT: j the admissions and evidence would have resulted in a conviction.

Except that there's no good evidence that either Knox or Sollecito were present during the murder or had anything to do with it.

They both confessed they were at least in earshot.
Amanda bears the burden to "tell all" especially now, she has nothing to lose by truth, and a clear conscience to gain.

If she wants to rescue [if you could call it that] her time on the world stage, now is the time to come clean and demonstrate the power of conscience and ethics, even the Power of G-D.
That is what i sincerely hope for her.
When/if she tells ALL the truth, it will ring clear and loud as genuine.


No, they didn't confess to that.
And what she confessed to was after being sleep deprived and abused by the Keystone cops.

Can you prove you didn't do it?
 
2014-01-31 10:55:27 AM  
@bwhizbangthedirtfarmer

We have to accept that the Italians have their own logic system in argument, and they have been in business for 2500 years....
I sense their conclusions were Just.

There is no doubt that someone was brutally murdered in a house A had control of, etc.
You may not agree with the jumbled versions of events as reported, but i'll bet there were no doubts at the immediate scene as to who was responsible.

It could be that Justice is more important than technicalities in some more experienced societies; especially when it comes to wanton murder.

@inflateable rhetoric:
"No, they didn't confess to that.
And what she confessed to was after being sleep deprived and abused by the Keystone cops.

Can you prove you didn't do it?"

I bear a remote responsibility [like all Americans] in that i did not long ago, begin to forcefully and effectively speak out against the -female dominated family style- that allowed a young daughter to be raised without discipline, or morals
Also the abuse of wealth and leisure allowing travel to foreign countries under the guise of education that in this case was used to get the daughter out of the house...or as some kind of pleasure trip.

Abuse of wealth and power is where it all started, and ends.

US family life is so screwed up, look at all the tragedy that results..
like newtown, and a few hundred thousands more like that, etc.

We had better fix our family government, using the Bible, or our nation will soon be even more hell than it already is!
 
2014-01-31 10:58:00 AM  
You play a crazy person very well.
 
2014-01-31 11:02:29 AM  

Maud Dib: ElPresidente: Maud Dib: ElPresidente:

Hmmmm...my phone's still not ringing. What a surprise.

You've got nothing.

On the contrary - I have two things you don't. An independent unbiased mind and the good sense not to argue with someone who doesn't - you.

You've already been outed....


*favorited!*

No time for tards.


Yet you come back the next day just to say so - the very definition of retarded.
 
2014-01-31 11:19:41 AM  

ElPresidente: Maud Dib: ElPresidente: Maud Dib: ElPresidente:

Hmmmm...my phone's still not ringing. What a surprise.

You've got nothing.

On the contrary - I have two things you don't. An independent unbiased mind and the good sense not to argue with someone who doesn't - you.

You've already been outed....


*favorited!*

No time for tards.

Yet you come back the next day just to say so - the very definition of retarded.


farm4.static.flickr.com
 
2014-01-31 11:31:44 AM  

JSTACAT: @bwhizbangthedirtfarmer

We have to accept that the Italians have their own logic system in argument, and they have been in business for 2500 years....
I sense their conclusions were Just.

There is no doubt that someone was brutally murdered in a house A had control of, etc.
You may not agree with the jumbled versions of events as reported, but i'll bet there were no doubts at the immediate scene as to who was responsible.

It could be that Justice is more important than technicalities in some more experienced societies; especially when it comes to wanton murder.

@inflateable rhetoric:
"No, they didn't confess to that.
And what she confessed to was after being sleep deprived and abused by the Keystone cops.

Can you prove you didn't do it?"

I bear a remote responsibility [like all Americans] in that i did not long ago, begin to forcefully and effectively speak out against the -female dominated family style- that allowed a young daughter to be raised without discipline, or morals
Also the abuse of wealth and leisure allowing travel to foreign countries under the guise of education that in this case was used to get the daughter out of the house...or as some kind of pleasure trip.

Abuse of wealth and power is where it all started, and ends.

US family life is so screwed up, look at all the tragedy that results..
like newtown, and a few hundred thousands more like that, etc.

We had better fix our family government, using the Bible, or our nation will soon be even more hell than it already is!


F*uck the bible, and superstition.

PS  Your comments are not relevant to the subject.
 
2014-01-31 11:53:08 AM  

JSTACAT: We have to accept that the Italians have their own logic system in argument, and they have been in business for 2500 years....
I sense their conclusions were Just.


Study it out.
 
2014-01-31 01:02:55 PM  

MayoSlather: CleanAndPure: And yet Americans all think she is innocent because an American would never do anything wrong overseas.

Seriously American media has been extremely biased in this case... backing the murderess.

I realize there is a difference of opinion from overseas, but I don't get it. This isn't an OJ style case where there is definitive motive. I'd say there is legit reasonable doubt from the details I've heard, and she'd have to be quite the psychopath to have done what they claim. I simply find that unlikely.


There is no evidence, no motive, and the killer is in prison.

What in the Sam Hell is wrong with Italy???
 
2014-01-31 01:23:38 PM  
She is guilty.
 
2014-01-31 01:29:25 PM  
Maybe that biatch roommate was flaunting her skittles and iced tea.
 
2014-01-31 02:09:36 PM  

Bungles: Some lawyers and supporters of Ms Knox have argued that having been acquitted in 2011, she would be protected under the US Constitution from "double jeopardy" - being tried twice for the same charge.
Yet the US-Italy extradition treaty only protects Americans from extradition to face prosecution again in Italy for an offence that has already been dealt with by the US legal system. "This is not applicable in this situation," said Professor Julian Ku, who teaches transnational law at Hofstra University.
For extradition candidates like Ms Knox who have already been convicted, the treaty states that Italy must merely produce "a brief statement of the facts of the case," as well as the text of the laws governing the crime committed, the punishment it would receive, and its statute of limitations.
Her conviction would "easily satisfy the conditions of the treaty," said Prof Ku. "So it would be hard for the US to explain why she should not be handed over".


She won't be extradited, but that will be because John Kerry chooses not to, rather than his hand being forced by pretending this is a double jeopardy issue.


I believe Prof. Ku is wrong.  The treaty doesn't protect someone from being extradited for an offense that has already been dealt with by the other party.  It only allows one party to hold on to them until they're done with them in that sort of situation, and then they can hand them over to be dealt with by the other party as well.

Usually, all offended parties get a crack at the suspect, even for the same act, so long as a law was violated within their jurisdiction, it's just that the same jurisdiction doesn't get two swings at bat.

For a more local example:  If you kidnap a minor in one state and then transport them through several states to another state, first the federal government gets a swing at you at the federal level for federal kidnapping, then the state that you took them from would for violating state kidnapping law, then any states along the way with an illegal transport of a minor law or whatever would get to take you on in turn for those violations.  If convicted at any point, you usually serve your time at that level, and then once you're "released," you're immediately extradited to the next jurisdiction with a valid claim that you violated their laws.
 
2014-01-31 02:59:59 PM  
In other extradition news, we're still waiting for Roman Polanski to be extradited to the United States to face justice.

France flat out refuses to extradite French citizens to the United States. They claim jurisdiction for all crimes committed by French citizens, no matter where those crimes take place. That should be reason alone for the US tell the French government to go fark themselves.

/and you guys think Italy's justice system is screwy
 
2014-01-31 09:12:13 PM  

patrick767: In other extradition news, we're still waiting for Roman Polanski to be extradited to the United States to face justice.


Now thats different a can of worms you've opened.
 
2014-01-31 10:00:09 PM  
From the Telegraph article:
" She was questioned without a lawyer being present and at the time she knew only basic Italian.  "

and we're done.

No confession can be taken seriously under those circumstances.
 
2014-01-31 11:42:15 PM  
So for all those convinced that she did it, how does the fact that a dangerous criminal psychopath is already in prison for the murder fit in?
How about the fact that he did not implicate Knox in any way, even though it would be advantageous for him to do so?
Is he being framed? Did he have consexusal sex with the murder victim and Amanda killed em in a jealous rage? Maybe they were all in a satanic cult together?

Granted there isn't a ahead of evidence that anything so abjectly ludicrous actually happened, but I'm in it for the shear entertainment value now. I won't judge I promise...
 
Displayed 364 of 364 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report