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(Salon)   Article goes to great pains to prove that wind chill is not a real thing while simultaneously conceding that wind makes cold temperatures feel colder. Glad they cleared that up   (salon.com) divider line 74
    More: Stupid, wind chills, physiologists, AccuWeather  
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2067 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jan 2014 at 5:02 PM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-30 05:06:27 PM  
Yes, thanks Salon.  I didn't know there was a difference between measured temperature and experienced temperature.
 
2014-01-30 05:08:26 PM  
It has to do with relative humidity and specific heat.
 
2014-01-30 05:09:12 PM  
of course it's real.

wind chill temperature makes you cold and gives you frostbite/hypothermia about the same as that temperature of still air would do.
 
2014-01-30 05:10:27 PM  
Wind chill is all about perception

No, it's a way to represent the very real effect wind speed has on the rate at which your body loses heat to the environment.
 
2014-01-30 05:11:10 PM  
Wind chill indexes are calculated for exposed skin. Sooooo maby people I know think it somehow affects their car and shiat like that. It'll be -10 C with a -30 windchill and they think their car isn't going to start. Drives me bananas.
 
2014-01-30 05:12:19 PM  
AccuWeather's "RealFeel" index adds in effects such as cloud cover and sun angle, but because the formula is patent-protected outside scientists cannot evaluate the math.

It might be fun to try to reverse-engineer the RealFeel formula based on those known inputs.

By the way, I read the following from AccuWeather about their patents: "as The RealFeel Temperature is protected by two patents which ensure that no other index can include temperature and more than one other factor, it is the only index which can provide an accurate measure of how the weather really feels."

Seriously?  They have a patent on all formulas with more than two variables??  Geeze, I need to apply for some patents.
 
2014-01-30 05:13:33 PM  
Still don't believe wind chill temperatures aren't real? Try an experiment: Put two thermometers outside, one in the wind and one shielded from it. When you return they will read the same.

If you watched the two thermometers the whole time, however, you'd notice that the one exposed to the wind reaches the minimum temperature more quickly.

F*ck, this article is stupid.
 
2014-01-30 05:14:12 PM  

Russ1642: Wind chill indexes are calculated for exposed skin. Sooooo maby people I know think it somehow affects their car and shiat like that. It'll be -10 C with a -30 windchill and they think their car isn't going to start. Drives me bananas.


Maybe they have cars covered in skin.  Every thought of that, genius?

hackedgadgets.com
 
2014-01-30 05:14:42 PM  
Of course wind makes the cold seem colder. The problem with the wind chill factor equation is that it makes a lot of very shaky assumptions: That you're walking at 3 MPH into the wind, you're 5 feet tall, and on and on.

Wind definitely makes heat leave an object faster than if there were no wind. The formula used by meteorologists is almost useless.
 
2014-01-30 05:16:26 PM  

Lehk: of course it's real.

wind chill temperature makes you cold and gives you frostbite/hypothermia about the same as that temperature of still air would do.


No, it doesn't. If the temperature is above freezing, but the wind chill makes it feel like it's below freezing, you won't get frostbite. You might still die of hypothermia, but that's a whole 'nother story.
 
2014-01-30 05:18:31 PM  
I didn't know functional retards could get jobs writing for Salon these days.
 
2014-01-30 05:18:49 PM  

Ambitwistor: It might be fun to try to reverse-engineer the RealFeel formula based on those known inputs.


Actually, since it's patented, it looks like they have a description.
 
2014-01-30 05:19:23 PM  

a particular individual: Lehk: of course it's real.

wind chill temperature makes you cold and gives you frostbite/hypothermia about the same as that temperature of still air would do.

No, it doesn't. If the temperature is above freezing, but the wind chill makes it feel like it's below freezing, you won't get frostbite. You might still die of hypothermia, but that's a whole 'nother story.


Weather reporters love windchill numbers because they're colder, and more dramatic sounding. They NEVER explain what they should be used for or their limited uses.
 
2014-01-30 05:19:53 PM  
I see there's still no valid reason for me to open a Salon link.
 
2014-01-30 05:21:40 PM  

Huck Chaser: Wind chill is all about perception

No, it's a way to represent the very real effect wind speed has on the rate at which your body loses heat to the environment.


Thank you. Heat transfer rates are dependent on things besides temperature? YOU DON'T SAY. Retarded article is retarded.
 
2014-01-30 05:23:05 PM  
Still don't believe wind chill temperatures aren't real? Try an experiment: Put two thermometers outside, one in the wind and one shielded from it. When you return they will read the same.

You farking dipshiat, way to completely miss the point of what wind chill is.

Still don't believe wind chill temperatures are real? Try an experiment: Put two thermometers outside, one in the wind and one shielded from it.  Which one cools down faster?
 
2014-01-30 05:26:16 PM  

a particular individual: Lehk: of course it's real.

wind chill temperature makes you cold and gives you frostbite/hypothermia about the same as that temperature of still air would do.

No, it doesn't. If the temperature is above freezing, but the wind chill makes it feel like it's below freezing, you won't get frostbite. You might still die of hypothermia, but that's a whole 'nother story.


Also exactly. Your f*cking skin can't get f*cking colder than the air temperature so if the air temperature is above freezing you can't get f*cking frostbite. But if you fall in forty degree water you're going to die of hypothermia because the amount of thermal energy taken out of you in a given time period is much greater than if you're in forty degree air because HEAT TRANSFER biatchES. Trying to explain these concepts to people is a huge frustration of mine.
 
2014-01-30 05:26:20 PM  

Russ1642: a particular individual: Lehk: of course it's real.

wind chill temperature makes you cold and gives you frostbite/hypothermia about the same as that temperature of still air would do.

No, it doesn't. If the temperature is above freezing, but the wind chill makes it feel like it's below freezing, you won't get frostbite. You might still die of hypothermia, but that's a whole 'nother story.

Weather reporters love windchill numbers because they're colder, and more dramatic sounding. They NEVER explain what they should be used for or their limited uses.


I've also heard them explain that it doesn't apply to inanimate objects, but that's BS. It was first measured as the rate heat left bottles of water at an arctic (or maybe antarctic) research station.
 
2014-01-30 05:28:05 PM  
windchill is not real if you are a pipe for a bathroom--no matter the windchill the water will not freeze if it's not cold enough. however, if instread you're a meat-bag that's expending a lot of energy to maintain a 98deg inner temperature, it's very real.
 
2014-01-30 05:29:13 PM  

a particular individual: Russ1642: a particular individual: Lehk: of course it's real.

wind chill temperature makes you cold and gives you frostbite/hypothermia about the same as that temperature of still air would do.

No, it doesn't. If the temperature is above freezing, but the wind chill makes it feel like it's below freezing, you won't get frostbite. You might still die of hypothermia, but that's a whole 'nother story.

Weather reporters love windchill numbers because they're colder, and more dramatic sounding. They NEVER explain what they should be used for or their limited uses.

I've also heard them explain that it doesn't apply to inanimate objects, but that's BS. It was first measured as the rate heat left bottles of water at an arctic (or maybe antarctic) research station.


Wind chill applies to inanimate objects. The reported wind chill indexes don't. They're calculated for exposed human skin but people again and again think that all properties of temperature are represented by the wind chill index as well.
 
2014-01-30 05:29:19 PM  
wind chill makes objects colder than air temperature, if the surface is evaporative and the relative humidity is less than 100%
 
2014-01-30 05:29:29 PM  
Last week it was 22 above zero here in Montana, but the humidity was higher than normal and the wind was blowing pretty fiercely. It felt much colder than it did in early December, when we had a spell of -30 degree cold. That bit of moisture and the wind made all the difference.
 
2014-01-30 05:29:59 PM  

Russ1642: Wind chill indexes are calculated for exposed skin. Sooooo maby people I know think it somehow affects their car and shiat like that. It'll be -10 C with a -30 windchill and they think their car isn't going to start. Drives me bananas.


Wind can carry heat away from an engine, which could make it more difficult to start.
 
2014-01-30 05:30:09 PM  

a particular individual: Lehk: of course it's real.

wind chill temperature makes you cold and gives you frostbite/hypothermia about the same as that temperature of still air would do.

No, it doesn't. If the temperature is above freezing, but the wind chill makes it feel like it's below freezing, you won't get frostbite. You might still die of hypothermia, but that's a whole 'nother story.


So you're saying you'd get frostbite at the same rate? That the rate is "not at all" doesn't really matter for the factuality of the statement.
 
2014-01-30 05:31:00 PM  

evilmousse: windchill is not real if you are a pipe for a bathroom


Wrong.
 
2014-01-30 05:32:13 PM  
I think it's time to society to accept that most people are just too stupid to understand what wind chill is and is not.
 
2014-01-30 05:32:35 PM  

LoneWolf343: Russ1642: Wind chill indexes are calculated for exposed skin. Sooooo maby people I know think it somehow affects their car and shiat like that. It'll be -10 C with a -30 windchill and they think their car isn't going to start. Drives me bananas.

Wind can carry heat away from an engine, which could make it more difficult to start.


No it won't, unless you've got the engine outside the car. Quit making shiat up. Besides, cars are made of metal which has a very low heat capacity. They cool to ambient temperatures very quickly.
 
2014-01-30 05:34:04 PM  
Poorly written article, although not quite scientifically wrong, if I follow his (poorly written) argument.

The problem: He seems to think there is a important difference between (A) "is," "real," "exists" and (B) "feels" "has an effect."  Or rather, he thinks that stuff that lies in the Category (B) cannot also be in Category (A).

/At any rate, for most purposes wind chill (and heat index) is a more useful number than the "actual air temperature" (whatever "actual" means here)
 
2014-01-30 05:35:18 PM  
Heat loss : how does it farking work?
 
2014-01-30 05:41:09 PM  

LoneWolf343: Russ1642: Wind chill indexes are calculated for exposed skin. Sooooo maby people I know think it somehow affects their car and shiat like that. It'll be -10 C with a -30 windchill and they think their car isn't going to start. Drives me bananas.

Wind can carry heat away from an engine, which could make it more difficult to start.


Say what?  If the engine is not running, then why would it have heat that could be carried away?  And what does that have to do with whether or not a car starts?
 
2014-01-30 05:46:39 PM  
I dont care if wind chill is real. Anyone who lives in a cold climate where there is snow on the ground 4 months of the year will tell you that there is nothing worst in winter than having your face sand-blasted off by the freezing wind. If it's not windy, odds are I will be just fine with a simple jacket or sweater.
 
2014-01-30 05:49:01 PM  

TheStag: Say what?  If the engine is not running, then why would it have heat that could be carried away?  And what does that have to do with whether or not a car starts?


As engines run, they produce waste heat. This is carried off and released by the coolant system. When you shut the car off, this coolant (which is now hot) and the engine will cool off to ambient temperatures. Wind will increase how fast this happens. If an engine (more likely battery) gets too cold, it can often fail to start.

*the_more_you_know.jpg*
 
2014-01-30 05:52:05 PM  

DerAppie: a particular individual: Lehk: of course it's real.

wind chill temperature makes you cold and gives you frostbite/hypothermia about the same as that temperature of still air would do.

No, it doesn't. If the temperature is above freezing, but the wind chill makes it feel like it's below freezing, you won't get frostbite. You might still die of hypothermia, but that's a whole 'nother story.

So you're saying you'd get frostbite at the same rate? That the rate is "not at all" doesn't really matter for the factuality of the statement.


I think what the original poster was saying was that a 0 F windchill (regardless of actual air temperature) would give you frostbite at the same rate as a 0 F temperature with no 'windchill'.  This is not true.

Forget about frostbite.  Let's talk about a plastic bottle of water.  I suppose if there were an extremely high wind, it would be possible to have an ambient temperature of +33 F and a 'windchill' of 0 F.  In this scenario - the bottle would not freeze because the ambient temperature is not below freezing.  Although it would get blown around a bit by the outrageous wind.  The same applies to your skin, but it's more complicated because water can be drawn from you skin and evaporate, making your skin temp a bit lower.

Conversely, if the ambient temp were 0 F, the water would absolutely freeze.  The addition of 'windchill' would only speed the process up a bit.
 
2014-01-30 05:52:29 PM  

lennavan: Still don't believe wind chill temperatures aren't real? Try an experiment: Put two thermometers outside, one in the wind and one shielded from it. When you return they will read the same.

You farking dipshiat, way to completely miss the point of what wind chill is.

Still don't believe wind chill temperatures are real? Try an experiment: Put two thermometers outside, one in the wind and one shielded from it.  Which one cools down faster?


To be fair,not everyone has taken thermodynamics.
Simpler experiment: When the room feels cold stand in front of a running fan, then turn it off. Notice that the moving air made it feel colder.
This is called forced convection. If it wasn't real we wouldn't have fans inside computers. Natural convection moves heat slowly because the air hitting you warms up a little but some of it stays near your skin, transferring heat to other nearby air molecules, creating a buffer of warmer air around you. Heat transfer is proportional to the temperature difference so still air doesn't feel as cold. It takes very little wind to disrupt that buffer, which is why being indoors at the same temperature feels warmer, even just a thin tent or unheated bus or train shelter.
 
2014-01-30 05:54:25 PM  

TheStag: LoneWolf343: Russ1642: Wind chill indexes are calculated for exposed skin. Sooooo maby people I know think it somehow affects their car and shiat like that. It'll be -10 C with a -30 windchill and they think their car isn't going to start. Drives me bananas.

Wind can carry heat away from an engine, which could make it more difficult to start.

Say what?  If the engine is not running, then why would it have heat that could be carried away?  And what does that have to do with whether or not a car starts?


Cold engines are harder to start (which is why car batteries have a "cold cranking amps" rating, indicating how good they are at helping start a cold engine).  If your engine cools back down to ambient temp faster than you expected (due to wind carrying heat away), you could have unexpected trouble getting it started again - this happened to me just the other day.  Used up all the juice getting it started once, ran it for 20 minutes to warm it up, and went to an appointment.  It was below zero and windy out.  When I came out an hour later, instead of the engine being still warm and easy to start, it was dead cold and the battery hadn't recharged enough in that 20-minute time to start it again at that temp.
 
2014-01-30 05:54:58 PM  

impaler: TheStag: Say what?  If the engine is not running, then why would it have heat that could be carried away?  And what does that have to do with whether or not a car starts?

As engines run, they produce waste heat. This is carried off and released by the coolant system. When you shut the car off, this coolant (which is now hot) and the engine will cool off to ambient temperatures. Wind will increase how fast this happens. If an engine (more likely battery) gets too cold, it can often fail to start.

*the_more_you_know.jpg*


Only if you take your battery out and set it on the hood of your car between starts.  For windchill to count, you have to actually be exposed to the wind.

*the_more_you_know.jpg*
 
2014-01-30 05:59:32 PM  
Can we get a "pedantic" tag?
 
2014-01-30 06:00:33 PM  

TheStag: Only if you take your battery out and set it on the hood of your car between starts.  For windchill to count, you have to actually be exposed to the wind.

*the_more_you_know.jpg*


If you open your hood and look down, you will see the ground. The hood doesn't completely isolate the engine compartment from the environment.

*the_more_you_know.jpg*
 
2014-01-30 06:00:55 PM  

DerAppie: a particular individual: Lehk: of course it's real.

wind chill temperature makes you cold and gives you frostbite/hypothermia about the same as that temperature of still air would do.

No, it doesn't. If the temperature is above freezing, but the wind chill makes it feel like it's below freezing, you won't get frostbite. You might still die of hypothermia, but that's a whole 'nother story.

So you're saying you'd get frostbite at the same rate? That the rate is "not at all" doesn't really matter for the factuality of the statement.


What? Frostbite is the freezing of cells, which leads to necrosis. Hypothermia is your body temperature getting too low to function. If the actual temperature is above freezing, you will not freeze, and thus will not get frostbite. You might still die of hypothermia. You can die of hypothermia in 50-degree water.
 
2014-01-30 06:02:45 PM  

impaler: TheStag: Only if you take your battery out and set it on the hood of your car between starts.  For windchill to count, you have to actually be exposed to the wind.

*the_more_you_know.jpg*

If you open your hood and look down, you will see the ground. The hood doesn't completely isolate the engine compartment from the environment.

*the_more_you_know.jpg*


I usually leave the hood open when it's sunny so the engine can make some Vitamin D.
 
2014-01-30 06:02:53 PM  

Lochsteppe: Cold engines are harder to start (which is why car batteries have a "cold cranking amps" rating, indicating how good they are at helping start a cold engine).


Batteries run of off a chemical reaction, so the batteries themselves work worse in cold weather.

Now where is this pedantic tag?
 
2014-01-30 06:05:11 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-30 06:07:39 PM  

TheStag: Only if you take your battery out and set it on the hood of your car between starts.  For windchill to count, you have to actually be exposed to the wind.

*the_more_you_know.jpg*


That's why car radiators are often mounted on top the hood.

*the_more_you_know.jpg*
 
2014-01-30 06:10:20 PM  

Russ1642: LoneWolf343: Russ1642: Wind chill indexes are calculated for exposed skin. Sooooo maby people I know think it somehow affects their car and shiat like that. It'll be -10 C with a -30 windchill and they think their car isn't going to start. Drives me bananas.

Wind can carry heat away from an engine, which could make it more difficult to start.

No it won't, unless you've got the engine outside the car. Quit making shiat up. Besides, cars are made of metal which has a very low heat capacity. They cool to ambient temperatures very quickly.


Sorry, buddy, I did a little research on why my moped wouldn't start whenever it got close to freezing, and learned that. Even if it is below freezing in a garage, the moped will start fine as opposed to the same temperature outside.
 
2014-01-30 06:12:45 PM  

TheStag: DerAppie: a particular individual: Lehk: of course it's real.

wind chill temperature makes you cold and gives you frostbite/hypothermia about the same as that temperature of still air would do.

No, it doesn't. If the temperature is above freezing, but the wind chill makes it feel like it's below freezing, you won't get frostbite. You might still die of hypothermia, but that's a whole 'nother story.

So you're saying you'd get frostbite at the same rate? That the rate is "not at all" doesn't really matter for the factuality of the statement.

I think what the original poster was saying was that a 0 F windchill (regardless of actual air temperature) would give you frostbite at the same rate as a 0 F temperature with no 'windchill'.  This is not true.

Forget about frostbite.  Let's talk about a plastic bottle of water.  I suppose if there were an extremely high wind, it would be possible to have an ambient temperature of +33 F and a 'windchill' of 0 F.  In this scenario - the bottle would not freeze because the ambient temperature is not below freezing.  Although it would get blown around a bit by the outrageous wind.  The same applies to your skin, but it's more complicated because water can be drawn from you skin and evaporate, making your skin temp a bit lower.

Conversely, if the ambient temp were 0 F, the water would absolutely freeze.  The addition of 'windchill' would only speed the process up a bit.


I think the original poster went for end result. But hey, interpretations differ.

/I just noticed I messed up by including "rate" in my reply
 
2014-01-30 06:14:41 PM  
No.
The wind will blow fresh cold air against your skin and your skin will freeze faster.

Thirty degrees in calm air and 30 degrees in a 50 mph wind are totally different animals with totally different danger levels associated.

This article is, for al intents and purposes, bull shiat.
Like the argument that a car that makes a 90 degree turn cannot do so without stopping, technically speaking according to the force vectors.
It's obtuse Aspergery trolling by people who should know better.

Idiots.
 
2014-01-30 06:22:14 PM  

TheStag: Only if you take your battery out and set it on the hood of your car between starts. For windchill to count, you have to actually be exposed to the wind.


The battery's rate of heat loss is still affected by the wind, just less so than if it were directly exposed.
 
2014-01-30 06:23:59 PM  
Maybe the idiots at Salon have never blown on a spoonful of soup to cool it down...

Maybe there should be some sort of IQ test you have to pass before being allowed to post anything on the Internet.
 
2014-01-30 06:24:10 PM  
FTA: Wind chill is a mathematically derived number that approximates how cold your skin feels-not how cold your skin actually is.

No, you farktard, it's a measure of how fast your body is going to cool down in those conditions--which is a very real and important thing for people to FARKING KNOW WHEN THEY'RE DECIDING HOW TO DRESS.

They don't report those numbers to be dramatic, you child, it's because that information could save peoples' lives.
 
2014-01-30 06:28:08 PM  

a particular individual: What? Frostbite is the freezing of cells, which leads to necrosis. Hypothermia is your body temperature getting too low to function. If the actual temperature is above freezing, you will not freeze, and thus will not get frostbite. You might still die of hypothermia. You can die of hypothermia in 50-degree water.


Indeed. So if I'm getting frostbite at the rate of "not at all" in 50 degree weather with wind, how does that change the rate if there would be no wind? I would still be getting frostbite at the rate of "not at all".

/Bald is also a descriptor for the amount of hair someone has
//And there is a socially acceptable number of murders one is allowed to commit
///The number is zero
 
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