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(Croydon Advertiser)   English town discovers wording really does matter when addressing deep-rooted ills of society. Its citizens now "commit" homelessness, "be arrested for" begging and "can be found guilty of" not having any money   (croydonadvertiser.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Asinine, found guilty, college town, homeless, Southwark, society, Islington  
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1408 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Jan 2014 at 9:18 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-30 08:30:47 AM  
Tragically, not far away now.    www.real-debt-elimination.com
 
2014-01-30 08:45:17 AM  
Wow. So they have their own Republican Party over there, too.
 
2014-01-30 09:25:19 AM  
The fark is an abso?
 
2014-01-30 09:27:09 AM  
"Those found rough sleeping and begging could also be given an Asbo."

If an Asbo is some type of tent, or maybe a moped, or even a brand of granola bar, I'd be ok with that.
But I highly suspect that's not it at all.
 
2014-01-30 09:28:03 AM  
Croydon's a hole. As in a sh*thole. Kudos to the farker referencing Soylent Green.

ASBO: Anti Social Behavior Order. What chavs celebrate on their 12th birthday as a right of passage.
 
2014-01-30 09:28:40 AM  

Znuh: Croydon's a hole. As in a sh*thole. Kudos to the farker referencing Soylent Green.

ASBO: Anti Social Behavior Order. What chavs celebrate on their 12th birthday as a right of passage.


They're ordering them to be anti-social?
 
2014-01-30 09:30:01 AM  
Anti-Social Behavior Order.

What will make them more social, it's brilliant.
 
2014-01-30 09:30:17 AM  
From teh Wikis:

An  anti-social behaviour order (ASBO)  ˈæzboʊ is a order made in the United Kingdom against a person who has been shown, on the balance of evidence, to have engaged in. The orders, introduced by Prime Minister in 1998, were designed to correct minor incidents that would not ordinarily warrant criminal prosecution. The orders restrict behaviour in some way, by prohibiting a return to a certain area or shop, or by restricting public behaviour such as swearing or drinking alcohol. Many see the ASBO as connected with young. In July 2010, new announced her intention to reform anti-social behaviour measures for England and Wales with the abolition of ASBOs in due course in favour of alternative 'community-based' social control policies.
 
2014-01-30 09:30:49 AM  

pueblonative: Znuh: Croydon's a hole. As in a sh*thole. Kudos to the farker referencing Soylent Green.

ASBO: Anti Social Behavior Order. What chavs celebrate on their 12th birthday as a right of passage.

They're ordering them to be anti-social?


Well it does sound kinda like the law enforcement/bureaucratic equivalent of telling them to go to their room...
 
2014-01-30 09:38:43 AM  
The poor must be "stomped out" and then further "crushed under the heel" for I hate to see human "garbage" littering the "street" as I "shop" for "bobbles".

am I doing it right?
 
2014-01-30 09:39:33 AM  

apoptotic: pueblonative: Znuh: Croydon's a hole. As in a sh*thole. Kudos to the farker referencing Soylent Green.

ASBO: Anti Social Behavior Order. What chavs celebrate on their 12th birthday as a right of passage.

They're ordering them to be anti-social?

Well it does sound kinda like the law enforcement/bureaucratic equivalent of telling them to go to their room...


...which, of course, is the whole problem, seeing as they don't have a "room" to go to.
 
2014-01-30 09:41:48 AM  

pueblonative: The fark is an abso?


It is like a restraining order, basically.
 
2014-01-30 09:44:51 AM  

xria: pueblonative: The fark is an abso?

It is like a restraining order, basically.


Crossed with contempt.

"Stop being poor!"
 
2014-01-30 09:52:22 AM  
Making it illegal to sleep outside is not the sign of a civilized society. Quite the opposite, it is the sign of a society that is not civilized.
 
2014-01-30 09:58:16 AM  
Not a direct quote from the article, but still.

"We recognise that some of the people we engage with are vulnerable which is why we are encouraging them to access services" said the guy who authorized "all available bylaws" to shut down a soup kitchen for the homeless.
 
2014-01-30 10:00:16 AM  
Croyden?  Let Baron Meliadus handle this.
 
2014-01-30 10:05:16 AM  
Meh, the UK government doesn't give a shiat.  80% of the homeless there are men.  Who gives a shiat about those guys.  We'll just keep focusing about the "inequity" everything in regards to the top 10% of men and turn a blind eye to those in the glass cellar.
 
2014-01-30 10:06:49 AM  
Police launch crackdown on people who 'commit' rough sleeping

Does this mean if I am tossing and turning too much, the wife can call the police and have me arrested?
 
2014-01-30 10:08:16 AM  

RandomExcess: Making it illegal to sleep outside is not the sign of a civilized society. Quite the opposite, it is the sign of a society that is not civilized.


Nonsense! It's merely a manifestation of the equality under the law - rich and poor alike are forbidden from sleeping outside and begging alms. You don't hate equality, do you?
 
2014-01-30 10:24:35 AM  
This puts a wrinkle in Maggie Thatcher's canonization -- seeing the poors with no home -- if only there were a way to make them invisible.

On the other hand, since Croydon is Gatwick airport, there may be a large population of "tourists" who couldn't find a job.
 
2014-01-30 10:27:38 AM  
"Asinine" tag fills in while "Sick" tag is passed out on a park bench.
 
2014-01-30 10:47:31 AM  
Charles Buttonham III: say olde chap what shall we do this evening?
Wendell Wadsworth James: I know, lets go to London, see if can get passers by to give us change and the rough sleep.

CBIII: perfect, in the morning there is a soup kitchen known for its gruel.


People living on the streets typically do it for the thrill. Fight the symptom not the cause.
 
2014-01-30 10:49:42 AM  
'Are there no prisons?"

'Plenty of prisons,' said the gentleman, laying down the  pen again.
'And the Union workhouses.' demanded Scrooge. 'Are  they still in operation?'
 
2014-01-30 10:50:21 AM  

BitwiseShift: This puts a wrinkle in Maggie Thatcher's canonization -- seeing the poors with no home -- if only there were a way to make them invisible.

On the other hand, since Croydon is Gatwick airport, there may be a large population of "tourists" who couldn't find a job.



The only way Thatcher is ever likely to get canonized is if we're allowed to use an actual cannon.

However your invisibility idea was adopted in Croydon years ago. Back when the huge queues outside the UK Border Agency offices started causing complaints they set up screens so the public wouldn't be forced to watch desperate people line up for hours in terrible weather. A great improvement for everyone, except the asylum seekers.

... and Gatwick airport is twenty miles from Croydon.
 
2014-01-30 10:51:59 AM  
I found a photo of the mayor:
images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-01-30 10:59:38 AM  
clancifer
Wow. So they have their own Republican Party over there, too.

Please. Democratic strongholds are just as abusive toward homeless people. It's about class, not party, and Democratic and Republican politicians are all in the same one.
 
2014-01-30 11:01:38 AM  

Znuh: In July 2010, new announced her intention to reform anti-social behaviour measures for England and Wales with the abolition of ASBOs in due course in favour of alternative 'community-based' social control policies.


They were planning on replacing them with IPNAs, which were absurdly broad in scope.

The wording in the bill would allow a neghobor to complain that a group of 10 year olds playing football in the park were bothering him from the noise from their perfectly legal playing. If the police believed him, they could injunction those children from using the park, with criminal penalties if they did.

Fortunately the plan failed in the House of Lords earlier this month, but Brits should expect to see something similar come up again, probably with a higher age limit.
 
2014-01-30 11:21:08 AM  
Aufstieg und Fall der Stadt Mahagonny
 
2014-01-30 11:28:17 AM  
I have absolutely no problem with banning people from sleeping on the street is the city, etc also provide secured places to sleep, e.g. homeless shelters, in quantity sufficient to the homeless population.

Basically if you get charged, and the shelters were over 80 or 90% capacity that day, charges dropped automatically.

// I phrase it as "the city" because the US has a truly separate layer of government at the civic level without the crossover the UK has.  I'm sure the details of where the rules come from are a bit different in ye olde nannye staete.
 
2014-01-30 11:37:28 AM  
How perfectly Dickensian.
 
2014-01-30 11:45:54 AM  
The law In its majestic equality forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.

-- Anatole France
 
2014-01-30 11:54:24 AM  
ASBOs were a way of criminalising non-criminal behaviour. Couldn't do someone for a crime? Give them an ASBO. Breaching the ASBO is a crime. Et viola, criminal charges where none were before.
Scotland had better vote yes, 'cos Westminster is treating 1984 as a freaking instruction manual.
 
2014-01-30 01:16:04 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: Znuh: In July 2010, new announced her intention to reform anti-social behaviour measures for England and Wales with the abolition of ASBOs in due course in favour of alternative 'community-based' social control policies.

They were planning on replacing them with IPNAs, which were absurdly broad in scope.

The wording in the bill would allow a neghobor to complain that a group of 10 year olds playing football in the park were bothering him from the noise from their perfectly legal playing. If the police believed him, they could injunction those children from using the park, with criminal penalties if they did.

Fortunately the plan failed in the House of Lords earlier this month, but Brits should expect to see something similar come up again, probably with a higher age limit.


DuncanMhor: ASBOs were a way of criminalising non-criminal behaviour. Couldn't do someone for a crime? Give them an ASBO. Breaching the ASBO is a crime. Et viola, criminal charges where none were before.
Scotland had better vote yes, 'cos Westminster is treating 1984 as a freaking instruction manual.


This to both of these.

ASBOs are a combination of personalized, arbitrary law (not just law enforcement, but law itself) and prior restraint.

You can impose those kinds of limits on somebody as a condition of parole, probation, or plea bargain - ie, AFTER conviction for a crime.  But if it's not a crime for me to sit in the park, feed the birds, and yell at clouds, then it can't be a crime for someone else to do the same.  It's a mockery of human rights and equal protection under the law.
 
2014-01-30 01:55:24 PM  
About time we get rid of the beggars.
It's for the greater good.
 
2014-01-30 02:38:56 PM  
the law treats all men equally
whether you be rich or poor
you are not allowed to beg on street corners
or sleep under bridges
 
2014-01-30 03:33:33 PM  
Bringing back debtor prisons?
 
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