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(CBS Sports)   The new Browns GM? Yeah, remember this? "Seattle Seahawks should sit Russell Wilson and play Matt Flynn"   (cbssports.com) divider line 36
    More: Dumbass, Seahawks, Seattle, Marc Trestman, Mike Glennon, Kirk Cousins, wolf packs, NC State  
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1100 clicks; posted to Sports » on 30 Jan 2014 at 9:36 AM (11 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



36 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-30 08:52:44 AM
To be honest, Flynn never had a chance to play in Seattle. So we don't know what might have happened.
 
2014-01-30 09:50:32 AM

Nadie_AZ: To be honest, Flynn never had a chance to play in Seattle. So we don't know what might have happened.


IIRC prior to the season Flynn was going to be the starter based on his work subbing for Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay (where he still holds their single-game touchdown record), and Wilson was supposed to learn under him.  When Wilson was named the starter at the beginning of the season (or at some point in the pre-season) people were surprised*.  But at the point in the season that TFA is referring to, seeing what he already could do as a rookie, yes, it seems kinda silly to change QBs.

*Although I do recall an ESPN article from the time (Simmons, I think) raving about Wilson's clubhouse leadership abilities.  I forget if it was tongue-in-cheek or serious.
 
2014-01-30 09:54:58 AM
I just have to say that Russel Wilson has a magnificent head of hair. That is all.
 
2014-01-30 10:12:30 AM

Arkanaut: IIRC prior to the season Flynn was going to be the starter based on his work subbing for Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay (where he still holds their single-game touchdown record), and Wilson was supposed to learn under him.


Not really.  I don't think anyone expected that Wilson would start immediately, including Carroll, but Carroll's philosophy has always been the hardest worker gets the start.  When Wilson blew Flynn and Jackson away, he went with Wilson, and to Carroll's credit, tuned out the firestorm for the first several weeks of that season.

Flynn, for his part, competed by having a sore elbow on his throwing arm.
 
2014-01-30 10:14:47 AM
I can't wait to see what Russell can do with some talented smart receivers.
 
2014-01-30 10:21:25 AM
1. 1954. The Catch. The great Willie Mays runs down a 420 shot to center field in sensational fashion preserving a 2-2 tie. Giants go on to sweep the world series.
2. 1976. Jim Chones breaks his foot in practice, cavs sunk in playoffs.
3. 1981. Red Right 88. Even though they were in field goal range (13 yard line) for a winning kick, Sipe tosses an interception in the end zone, Browns loose 14-12. Raiders go on to win the Super Bowl.
4. 1987. The Drive. 98 yard drive by Elway (including a 3rd and 18 conversion) tied the game with 37 seconds left. Browns lose in overtime. The legend of Elway is born.
5. 1988. The Fumble.  With 1:12 left in the game, running back Earnest Byner appeared to be on his way to score the game-tying touchdown, but lost a fumble at the 3-yard line.  Byner traded to Washington the next year and wins a super bowl for them.
6. 1989. The Shot. Micheal Jordan's iconic shot at the buzzer in game 5. The legend of Jordan is born.
7. 1993 Cleveland Indians pitchers Steve Olin and Tim Crews die in a tragic boating accident.
8. 1994. Brad Daugherty career ended because of back problems at 26.
9. 1994. The Indians finally have a winning record that would have qualified for the playoffs for the first time in 40 years. The season ended with a strike.
10. 1995. Indians lose the World Series to Atlanta in 6 games.
11. 1996. Best record in baseball, lose to Baltimore in 4 games.
12. 1996. Browns and Art Modell leave Cleveland and move to Baltimore.
13. 1997. World Series, game 7. Indians have the lead in the bottom of the ninth with 2 outs when Jose Mesa(1.12 ERA 46 saves) falls apart on the mound and lets the Marlins tie the game. In the bottom of the 11th, 4 time gold glove winner and 5 time all-star Tony Fernadez(.978 fielding %) muffs a sure double play.  Edgar Rentería ended the game with a single.
14. 1999. Browns back in Cleveland. Draft Tim Couch 1st overall.  Draft bust.
15. 2000. Browns draft Courney Brown 1st overall.  Draft bust.
16. 2001. Browns draft Gerard Warren 3rd overall.  Draft bust.
17. 2001. The Ravens and Art Modell win the Super Bowl for Baltimore.
18. 2002. Browns draft William Green 16th overall.  Alcoholic Draft bust.
19. 2002. New Browns finally make the playoffs and have a 22 point 4th quarter lead against Pittsburgh and lose.
20. 2003. Browns draft Jeff Faine 21st overall, Traded to saints where he becomes a probowl center.
21. 2004. Browns draft Kellen Winslow. 2 games into season he breaks his leg. Lost for year.
22. 2005. Kellen winslow blows his knee out in a motorcycle accident, lost for the year.
23. 2005. Browns draft Braylon Edwards 3rd overall. Blows knee out, lost for the year.
24. 2006. LeCharles Bentley, top rated free agent signs huge contract with Cleveland.  During the first play of the first practice he tore his patellar tendon and ended his career.
25. 2007. Cavs get swept in Finals.
26. 2007 Indians have a 3 games to 1 ALCS lead on Red Sox.  They lose the last three games.
27. 2007 Browns give up a 2007 2nd round pick and 2008 1st round pick to select QB Brady Quinn.
28. 2008-2009. Cleveland trades not one, but 2 Cy young winners(CC Sabathia and Cliff Lee) Both pitchers meet each other in the world series. (New York vs Philly)
29. 2009. Cavs roll in playoffs, stopped by Orlando.
30. 2010. Best record in NBA.  Lose to  Celtics.
31. 2010 The Decision.   Lebron leaves Cleveland for Miami.
32. 2013 Browns bought by Jim Haslam Jr. He is now under ethics and tax fraud investigation.
33. 2013 Browns have a 26-13 lead with 1:03 remaining on the patriots and lose 27-26
34. 2013 Browns fire Rob Chudzinski after one year and a 4-12 season.


Cleveland's woes
 
2014-01-30 10:27:15 AM

ltdanman44: Cleveland's woes


Also, as far as I know, it's the only city to have had both its river and its mayor catch fire.

/I like Cleveland - I went to school there for three years.
 
2014-01-30 10:39:31 AM

ltdanman44: 1. 1954. The Catch. The great Willie Mays runs down a 420 shot to center field in sensational fashion preserving a 2-2 tie. Giants go on to sweep the world series.
2. 1976. Jim Chones breaks his foot in practice, cavs sunk in playoffs.
3. 1981. Red Right 88. Even though they were in field goal range (13 yard line) for a winning kick, Sipe tosses an interception in the end zone, Browns loose 14-12. Raiders go on to win the Super Bowl.
4. 1987. The Drive. 98 yard drive by Elway (including a 3rd and 18 conversion) tied the game with 37 seconds left. Browns lose in overtime. The legend of Elway is born.
5. 1988. The Fumble.  With 1:12 left in the game, running back Earnest Byner appeared to be on his way to score the game-tying touchdown, but lost a fumble at the 3-yard line.  Byner traded to Washington the next year and wins a super bowl for them.
6. 1989. The Shot. Micheal Jordan's iconic shot at the buzzer in game 5. The legend of Jordan is born.
7. 1993 Cleveland Indians pitchers Steve Olin and Tim Crews die in a tragic boating accident.
8. 1994. Brad Daugherty career ended because of back problems at 26.
9. 1994. The Indians finally have a winning record that would have qualified for the playoffs for the first time in 40 years. The season ended with a strike.
10. 1995. Indians lose the World Series to Atlanta in 6 games.
11. 1996. Best record in baseball, lose to Baltimore in 4 games.
12. 1996. Browns and Art Modell leave Cleveland and move to Baltimore.
13. 1997. World Series, game 7. Indians have the lead in the bottom of the ninth with 2 outs when Jose Mesa(1.12 ERA 46 saves) falls apart on the mound and lets the Marlins tie the game. In the bottom of the 11th, 4 time gold glove winner and 5 time all-star Tony Fernadez(.978 fielding %) muffs a sure double play.  Edgar Rentería ended the game with a single.
14. 1999. Browns back in Cleveland. Draft Tim Couch 1st overall.  Draft bust.
15. 2000. Browns draft Courney Brown 1st overall.  Draft bust.
16. 2001. Browns ...


As a Lions fan, whenever we fell down about the Lions, we realize that Browns fans have it worse because they have the losing plus their team left town on them.  Then you add in the other sports and I feel amazingly bad for Cleveland fans.
 
2014-01-30 10:39:50 AM
As TFA points out, Lombardi wasn't alone. As of October 2, 2012, the Seahawks were 2-2 and coming off a 19-13 loss to the Rams; Wilson had yet to throw for more than 160 yards in a game and the team appeared to be running a "training wheels" offense with its rookie third-round pick at QB. Knowing only what was known then, wouldn't you have also thought that Flynn should have had a shot?
 
2014-01-30 10:42:35 AM

BMulligan: Also, as far as I know, it's the only city to have had both its river and its mayor catch fire.


Wait, what?
 
2014-01-30 10:44:24 AM
content8.flixster.com
 
2014-01-30 10:50:39 AM
To be fair, Lombardi is a conventional wisdom whore with very few original thoughts or ideas of his own
 
2014-01-30 10:55:50 AM

Arkanaut: BMulligan: Also, as far as I know, it's the only city to have had both its river and its mayor catch fire.

Wait, what?


Ralph Perk, one of the few Republicans elected to the position. "As mayor, Perk became the subject of national ridicule on October 16, 1972, when he accidentally set his hair on fire while he attempted to use a welder's torch for a ribbon-cutting ceremony for a convention in Cleveland."
 
2014-01-30 11:04:38 AM

Arkanaut: Nadie_AZ: To be honest, Flynn never had a chance to play in Seattle. So we don't know what might have happened.

IIRC prior to the season Flynn was going to be the starter based on his work subbing for Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay (where he still holds their single-game touchdown record), and Wilson was supposed to learn under him.  When Wilson was named the starter at the beginning of the season (or at some point in the pre-season) people were surprised*.  But at the point in the season that TFA is referring to, seeing what he already could do as a rookie, yes, it seems kinda silly to change QBs.

*Although I do recall an ESPN article from the time (Simmons, I think) raving about Wilson's clubhouse leadership abilities.  I forget if it was tongue-in-cheek or serious.


Simmons picked the Seahawks to go to the Super Bowl in the pre-season because of Wilson. He also picked the Ravens to make it too. His last good prediction.
 
2014-01-30 11:10:40 AM
He's the best corner in the league!  don't you ever talk about him!
 
2014-01-30 11:17:02 AM
...Uh, Lombardi's been the Browns' GM for a year. He was the probable trigger-man in the Trent Richardson deal.   Besides that, it's Joe Banner who wields the axe in Cleveland. And neither have moved an inch, for good or ill.
 
2014-01-30 11:18:05 AM

BMulligan: /I like Cleveland - I went to school there for three years.


Q: What's long and hard on BMulligan?

A: The third grade
 
2014-01-30 11:19:41 AM

meanmutton: As a Lions fan, whenever we fell down about the Lions, we realize that Browns fans have it worse because they have the losing plus their team left town on them.  Then you add in the other sports and I feel amazingly bad for Cleveland fans.


Lions fans at least have the Pistons' championships (and the current good run the Tigers are going on).

Cubs fans at least have the Bulls (and the Bears sometimes).

Browns fans have...jack squat.  They may have something in the Indians if Francona can work his magic again, but other than that...
 
2014-01-30 11:31:10 AM

The Smails Kid: BMulligan: /I like Cleveland - I went to school there for three years.

Q: What's long and hard on BMulligan?

A: The third grade


That's cute. That's not actually what they call the third year of law school, though.

/Case Western Reserve University '96.
 
2014-01-30 11:31:30 AM
This is not a revelation to Browns fans. Everyone knew there was a reason Lombardi hadn't worked for an NFL team for five years before Haslam and Banner hired him.

/JaMarcus Russell
//Talking Bill Belichick out of drafting Warren Sapp
///Where is Lombardi now? Seriously?
 
2014-01-30 12:24:56 PM
He may not have been wrong. We don't actually know. This tab has been retarded the last two weeks it feels
 
2014-01-30 12:27:20 PM

Arkanaut: Nadie_AZ: To be honest, Flynn never had a chance to play in Seattle. So we don't know what might have happened.

IIRC prior to the season Flynn was going to be the starter based on his work subbing for Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay (where he still holds their single-game touchdown record), and Wilson was supposed to learn under him.  When Wilson was named the starter at the beginning of the season (or at some point in the pre-season) people were surprised*.  But at the point in the season that TFA is referring to, seeing what he already could do as a rookie, yes, it seems kinda silly to change QBs.

*Although I do recall an ESPN article from the time (Simmons, I think) raving about Wilson's clubhouse leadership abilities.  I forget if it was tongue-in-cheek or serious.


Wilson blew Flynn out of the water in pre-season games. He really did force Carroll's hand by how much more he brought to the table than Flynn.
 
2014-01-30 12:28:00 PM

thecpt: He may not have been wrong. We don't actually know. This tab has been retarded the last two weeks it feels


wat
 
2014-01-30 12:30:58 PM

Super Chronic: As TFA points out, Lombardi wasn't alone. As of October 2, 2012, the Seahawks were 2-2 and coming off a 19-13 loss to the Rams; Wilson had yet to throw for more than 160 yards in a game and the team appeared to be running a "training wheels" offense with its rookie third-round pick at QB. Knowing only what was known then, wouldn't you have also thought that Flynn should have had a shot?


Not in the least. It was obvious that Wilson could do more, but was not being given the opportunity. Not to mention that he would have been 3-1 even in the "training wheels" offense if Edwards hadn't let the winning TD catch go right through his hands against AZ in Week 1.
 
2014-01-30 01:11:27 PM

Shame Us: thecpt: He may not have been wrong. We don't actually know. This tab has been retarded the last two weeks it feels

wat


Fair enough response to my statement. He said it after Wilson lost the game for Seattle. Labeling him an idiot from that is stupid. We don't know if Flynn coming in after that would of yielded better results for a great defensive team.

I actually like a lot if the brown's recent moves other than firing chud, but I don't think Lombardi made that decision.

Getting a first round pick for Richardson lead to an improved run game. The guy gets a pass on any prior mistake from me
 
2014-01-30 01:19:34 PM

thecpt: We don't know if Flynn coming in after that would of yielded better results for a great defensive team


I see what you're saying, but from that point on, the team went 12-4 (including playoffs) and at least 2 of those games were lost by the defense in the waning moments after Wilson had given them the lead. I son't think Flynn would have done better than maybe a .500 finish after the 2-2 start. He certainly isn't a bad QB, he just seems to be the epitome of an average QB.
 
2014-01-30 01:29:10 PM

Shame Us: thecpt: We don't know if Flynn coming in after that would of yielded better results for a great defensive team

I see what you're saying, but from that point on, the team went 12-4 (including playoffs) and at least 2 of those games were lost by the defense in the waning moments after Wilson had given them the lead. I son't think Flynn would have done better than maybe a .500 finish after the 2-2 start. He certainly isn't a bad QB, he just seems to be the epitome of an average QB.


And I will not say he is bad. I like him in your offense. I'm just saying captain hindsight subby should take his tag in his Cleveland hole
 
2014-01-30 03:06:50 PM
Hindsight does funny things to people.  Preseason footage showed Wilson was doing more than Flynn was.

Flynn, as we have seen this year, turned out to be mediocre while Wilson has been prone to improvising out of the pocket while trying to get his team the win.
 
2014-01-30 03:09:20 PM

Shame Us: thecpt: We don't know if Flynn coming in after that would of yielded better results for a great defensive team

I see what you're saying, but from that point on, the team went 12-4 (including playoffs) and at least 2 of those games were lost by the defense in the waning moments after Wilson had given them the lead. I son't think Flynn would have done better than maybe a .500 finish after the 2-2 start. He certainly isn't a bad QB, he just seems to be the epitome of an average QB.


Yes, the most frustrating thing about last year's team is that the defense did an extraordinary job of keeping the team in charge ... until the last 40 seconds.  Bradley would send them into a deep zone, and teams would just carve them up.  It hurt them in several games and almost lost the Chicago game.
 
2014-01-30 03:10:52 PM

BMulligan: Arkanaut: BMulligan: Also, as far as I know, it's the only city to have had both its river and its mayor catch fire.

Wait, what?

Ralph Perk, one of the few Republicans elected to the position. "As mayor, Perk became the subject of national ridicule on October 16, 1972, when he accidentally set his hair on fire while he attempted to use a welder's torch for a ribbon-cutting ceremony for a convention in Cleveland."


He also turned down an invitation to dinner with President & Mrs. Nixon because his wife would have had to miss her bowling league night.
 
2014-01-30 03:23:01 PM
The Browns front office is run by the Three Stooges.
Mike Lombardi=Joe Bess.
 
2014-01-30 03:38:05 PM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Shame Us: thecpt: We don't know if Flynn coming in after that would of yielded better results for a great defensive team

I see what you're saying, but from that point on, the team went 12-4 (including playoffs) and at least 2 of those games were lost by the defense in the waning moments after Wilson had given them the lead. I son't think Flynn would have done better than maybe a .500 finish after the 2-2 start. He certainly isn't a bad QB, he just seems to be the epitome of an average QB.

Yes, the most frustrating thing about last year's team is that the defense did an extraordinary job of keeping the team in charge ... until the last 40 seconds.  Bradley would send them into a deep zone, and teams would just carve them up.  It hurt them in several games and almost lost the Chicago game.


The lack of a pass rush in those situations made Bradley's call to go into soft zone bad. QBs had all day back there for receivers to find a spot. If we had had Avril and Bennett last year...well, who knows. May have ended up 13-3 or 14-2.
 
2014-01-30 04:30:40 PM

Lost Thought 00: To be fair, Lombardi is a conventional wisdom whore with very few original thoughts or ideas of his own


But...but... He worked with Al Davis AND Belichick. He must have hours of anecdotes and musings that will make them a winning franchise.

He does much better in media roles, but he wanted to salvage his career in Cleveland and try to make up for his first stint there. What a maroon.
 
2014-01-31 12:01:09 AM

thecpt: He may not have been wrong. We don't actually know. This tab has been retarded the last two weeks it feels


thecpt: Labeling him an idiot from that is stupid.


You seem rather upset at a person calling a spade a spade (and, quite honestly, the headline doesn't even go that far). The track record existed before this article suggesting Lombardi was an idiot.

The only people who entertained the idea of changing horses mid-stream were people who weren't watching the games (including the preseason) or paying attention to the offense being run by Seattle. And, for what it's worth, given the way Seattle's team operates (run-first, ball control, and don't turn it over) and the fact that Flynn averaged two turnovers per start this year and isn't a runner, I think it's safe to say he would NOT have done as well as Wilson. I could imagine, possibly, the guy having more total yards, but fewer touchdowns, more interceptions, and fewer YPA.
 
2014-01-31 09:51:17 AM

Shame Us: Super Chronic: As TFA points out, Lombardi wasn't alone. As of October 2, 2012, the Seahawks were 2-2 and coming off a 19-13 loss to the Rams; Wilson had yet to throw for more than 160 yards in a game and the team appeared to be running a "training wheels" offense with its rookie third-round pick at QB. Knowing only what was known then, wouldn't you have also thought that Flynn should have had a shot?

Not in the least. It was obvious that Wilson could do more, but was not being given the opportunity. Not to mention that he would have been 3-1 even in the "training wheels" offense if Edwards hadn't let the winning TD catch go right through his hands against AZ in Week 1.


He also would've been 1-3 had Fail Mary gotten called correctly.
 
2014-01-31 01:48:51 PM

machoprogrammer: Shame Us: Super Chronic: As TFA points out, Lombardi wasn't alone. As of October 2, 2012, the Seahawks were 2-2 and coming off a 19-13 loss to the Rams; Wilson had yet to throw for more than 160 yards in a game and the team appeared to be running a "training wheels" offense with its rookie third-round pick at QB. Knowing only what was known then, wouldn't you have also thought that Flynn should have had a shot?

Not in the least. It was obvious that Wilson could do more, but was not being given the opportunity. Not to mention that he would have been 3-1 even in the "training wheels" offense if Edwards hadn't let the winning TD catch go right through his hands against AZ in Week 1.

He also would've been 1-3 had Fail Mary gotten called correctly.


You mean still 2-2 if not for the BS pass interference call that got the packers their only TD.
 
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