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(Guardian)   "Norway's traffic jams are becoming the cleanest and quietest in the world "   (theguardian.com) divider line 33
    More: Spiffy, bus lanes, Friends of the Earth  
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4347 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jan 2014 at 8:55 AM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



33 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-30 08:57:32 AM  
southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com

THAAAAANKS!
 
2014-01-30 09:01:13 AM  
NORWAY.  Fark YEAH!!!!

Where they celebrate punching and kicking the shiat outta babbys.

i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2014-01-30 09:03:51 AM  
Norway would have this kind of headline.
 
2014-01-30 09:04:25 AM  
There are only like 6,000 people even living in Norway.    Most days they are using thier vast wealth to prepare feasts of Lutefisk....

...with that few people how can they possibly have traffic jams in thier tiny little ecoweenie cars
 
2014-01-30 09:08:00 AM  
Norway does it right.  They appease all the environmental enthusiast and get to feel warm and fuzzy inside by using electric vehicles powered by hydro, geothermal, etc, and then they turn around and sell massive amounts of oil and gas to the rest of the world, which their entire economy is basically built on.  Win for the oil companies, win for the greens.
 
2014-01-30 09:09:03 AM  
Wait What? Norway is the fourth richest country in the world? From what? Sardines? Inquiring minds need to know!
 
2014-01-30 09:12:52 AM  

ChipNASA: NORWAY.  Fark YEAH!!!!

Where they celebrate punching and kicking the shiat outta babbys.


Wha...what is THAT supposed to be depicting??

/has no image google-fu
 
2014-01-30 09:12:54 AM  
As someone who has spent time in Norway, I gotta tell ya, it's farking cold.
 
2014-01-30 09:16:05 AM  

drg8r: Wait What? Norway is the fourth richest country in the world? From what? Sardines? Inquiring minds need to know!


They've saved and invested their North Sea petro-dollars.
 
2014-01-30 09:16:29 AM  

drg8r: Wait What? Norway is the fourth richest country in the world? From what? Sardines? Inquiring minds need to know!

Oil. Lots and lots of North Sea oil. And a policy to save up all that sweet oil money for when it eventually runs out, rather than spending it all.
 
2014-01-30 09:17:39 AM  
Well, sure, EVs are great provided there is a renewable and clean electricity source to charge them with, and it seems Norway has that covered too...

... but can these mightily-hailed EVs prevent møøse bites? Those kan be pretty nasti.

Yeah, didn't think so.
 
2014-01-30 09:22:07 AM  
Cold + batteries = VERY quiet EV's. (also: stationary)
 
2014-01-30 09:22:50 AM  

lindalouwho: ChipNASA: NORWAY.  Fark YEAH!!!!

Where they celebrate punching and kicking the shiat outta babbys.

Wha...what is THAT supposed to be depicting??

/has no image google-fu


That's why I love posting that. I almost always get a big WTF?!?!? out of that.

Frogner Park  located in the borough of Oslo Norway contains, in its present centre, the world famous Vigeland Sculpture Arrangement......  that depicts four child-shaped 'genii' spirits attacking a man. (creepy little baby demons here).
 
2014-01-30 09:23:41 AM  
This whole electric car thing is such a crock of BS.

1.  Electric cars run on coal.  I thought you eco-whack jobs hate coal.  I'd much rather have 100 V8 engines running in my neighborhood than a coal plant next door.

2.  Where do people charge?  In my town there are 8 (yes 8) charging plugs, oh-so-conveninently located in a city garage downtown.  Seeing has how charging takes 8-24 hours (at best), how would I charge there and then actually be able to ever use my car?

3.  The batteries are an ecological disaster.  Cadmium and Lithium mining is dirty, dangerous, and supports a lot of countries that don't like us.  Oil, on the other hand, is readily available right here in our backyard (and Canada).  No mess, no wars to fight over it.  Clean and safe.

4.  Electricity is expensive.  I'm sure it costs a lot more per mile to run these golf carts than it does to buy gas.

5.  If electric cars are so good, why did GM kill off their project in the 1990s and destroy all the cars?  Because they wanted to ge rid of the embarrassment and stink.  If there were a model of how to make profit from them, someone would be doing them.

6.  Electric cars are slow.  None of them are safe at highway speed, I'm surprised the NTSB even agrees to allow them on our interstates given their awful crash records, inability to keep to speed, etc.

7.  They always catch on fire.  When was the last time you heard of a gasoline car fire?  Yet, we almost daily hear of another Volt or Tesla blowing up.

Seriously... just wait until Hydrogen Fuel Cells come out.  Then we'll have a real form of alternative combustion.  Until then, its gas all the way for me.
 
2014-01-30 09:30:16 AM  

alywa: 1.  Electric cars run on coal.  I thought you eco-whack jobs hate coal.  I'd much rather have 100 V8 engines running in my neighborhood than a coal plant next door.


Not all electricity comes from coal, there are other cleaner sources, like the hydro-electricity mentioned in the article, but I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, since your other points aren't very intelligent either. The only one with any merit is 3, and you still found a way to make it sound stupid.
 
2014-01-30 09:38:56 AM  

alywa: This whole electric car thing is such a crock of BS.

1.  Electric cars run on coal.  I thought you eco-whack jobs hate coal.  I'd much rather have 100 V8 engines running in my neighborhood than a coal plant next door.

2.  Where do people charge?  In my town there are 8 (yes 8) charging plugs, oh-so-conveninently located in a city garage downtown.  Seeing has how charging takes 8-24 hours (at best), how would I charge there and then actually be able to ever use my car?

3.  The batteries are an ecological disaster.  Cadmium and Lithium mining is dirty, dangerous, and supports a lot of countries that don't like us.  Oil, on the other hand, is readily available right here in our backyard (and Canada).  No mess, no wars to fight over it.  Clean and safe.

4.  Electricity is expensive.  I'm sure it costs a lot more per mile to run these golf carts than it does to buy gas.

5.  If electric cars are so good, why did GM kill off their project in the 1990s and destroy all the cars?  Because they wanted to ge rid of the embarrassment and stink.  If there were a model of how to make profit from them, someone would be doing them.

6.  Electric cars are slow.  None of them are safe at highway speed, I'm surprised the NTSB even agrees to allow them on our interstates given their awful crash records, inability to keep to speed, etc.

7.  They always catch on fire.  When was the last time you heard of a gasoline car fire?  Yet, we almost daily hear of another Volt or Tesla blowing up.

Seriously... just wait until Hydrogen Fuel Cells come out.  Then we'll have a real form of alternative combustion.  Until then, its gas all the way for me.


Umm... I think you are not being serious?
 
2014-01-30 09:39:48 AM  

Public Savant: Cold + batteries = VERY quiet EV's. (also: stationary)


They all seemed to be working on my way to work this morning (in Oslo).
 
2014-01-30 09:40:59 AM  

ChipNASA: lindalouwho: ChipNASA: NORWAY.  Fark YEAH!!!!

Where they celebrate punching and kicking the shiat outta babbys.

Wha...what is THAT supposed to be depicting??

/has no image google-fu

That's why I love posting that. I almost always get a big WTF?!?!? out of that.

Frogner Park  located in the borough of Oslo Norway contains, in its present centre, the world famous Vigeland Sculpture Arrangement......  that depicts four child-shaped 'genii' spirits attacking a man. (creepy little baby demons here).


Thanks, I think ;-). It made me google "Norway child abuse statistics". Turns out they have an exceptionally low rate of child abuse deaths.
Probably because they get all their frustrations out whacking around THESE little imps!
 
2014-01-30 09:41:43 AM  

ChipNASA: Frogner Park  located in the borough of Oslo Norway contains, in its present centre, the world famous Vigeland Sculpture Arrangement......  that depicts four child-shaped 'genii' spirits attacking a man. (creepy little baby demons here)


Aren't all babbys creepy little demons?
 
2014-01-30 09:49:23 AM  
That's odd, I figured all those honkeys would make a lot of noise...
 
2014-01-30 09:51:46 AM  

Public Savant: Cold + batteries = VERY quiet EV's. (also: stationary)


It's 2014, not 1983 fyi
 
2014-01-30 09:55:43 AM  
You say somethin' 'bout my 'lectric car?

oyster.ignimgs.com
 
2014-01-30 10:44:17 AM  
Yep, they are doing that part right. Every institutional design I worked on (schools, government buildings, hospitals, etc.) in Trondheim required a minimum of three electric recharging stations. It's good because most people live in condos/apartments and wouldn't have access to a charging source. Of course, most of the people I knew didn't own a car anyhow, and would just rent one from the bilkollektiv (car sharing program). I got to drive a Leaf a couple of times and absolutely loved it... I can see why they're so popular.

/now if I could just get a job here, maybe I could afford to buy one some day
 
2014-01-30 11:05:58 AM  
Yes, Norway!

There's Something In My Heart that always has me Running to the Sea looking for White Foxes through the Silicon Veil.  Oh, You Don't Have a Clue you Knight of Noir.

/good luck...
 
2014-01-30 11:27:44 AM  
Trust Norway to ruin traffic jams for the rest of us.

I bet you Norway is full of hyper-milers who turn their cars off during traffic jams and read from their Kindles and cellphones. Now that would make for a quiet, clean and relaxing traffic jam, dammit!
 
2014-01-30 11:38:12 AM  
It's hard to believe these people were once the most feared in the world. Now they are considered the nicest.
 
2014-01-30 11:57:58 AM  
Response to Alywa


1.  Electric cars run on coal.


Only if you buy your electricity from a coal-fired plant. The US and some other countries get a lot of power from coal. Canada gets much of its power from hydroelectric dams (which is why we call it "Hydro" rather than "Electricity" or nuclear plants. Even if your state gets a lot of power from burning coal, it may be possible to buy from a utility that generates clean power through solar, wind, geothermal, nuclear, hydro, etc. This is because electricity is almost perfectly fungible. It can be traded in the same way carbon credits or acid rain emissions have been traded. True, the electrons don't necessarily come from clean power, but  by paying a bit extra, you are encouraging the clean producers to produce more, thus bringing on the day when they can produce more cheaply. And that day is not far off.

Coal is used where it is plentiful, where governments, businesses and consumers don't care about the pollution and health problems and lives lost in mining, shipping, etc. But unless the coal industry cleans up, low prices and heavy spending on politicians, economists and journalists to shill for them is not going to save them forever. Solar has dropped many orders of magnitude and is pushing on towards competitiveness with oil, gas and coal. We are starting to climb the logistic (sigma) curve. Clean power is rising logarithmically, exponentially.


2.  Where do people charge?

It's early years yet. Electric cars are still for rich early adopters, not the masses. But for this type, which tends to live in walkable, bike-friendly neighbourhoods in cities, having only a few charging stations in one place is not really much of a problem. They may never have to travel more than 50 miles and if they do, they can park the car at a charger and borrow or rent a car for longer trips. There are a lot of carless people in big cities and small. We survive and thrive without cars, insurance or parking. Everything you need may be within ten minutes or at the most thirty minutes walk.

I never learned to drive. I always say that everyplace worth going can be reached by walking or airplane.

3.  The batteries are an ecological disaster.  Cadmium and Lithium mining is dirty, dangerous, and supports a lot of countries that don't like us.  Oil, on the other hand, is readily available right here in our backyard (and Canada).  No mess, no wars to fight over it.  Clean and safe.

Perhaps. But things change and are changing. Cleaner, more powerful batteries have been slow to reach the market, but they are progressing. Also these metals are amenable to recycling. Because they are rare they are valued and sought after (like gold, diamonds and sweet oil). And any objection to batteries is valid for computer batteries as well--nobody is going back to paper unless the world economy crashes.

4.  Electricity is expensive.  I'm sure it costs a lot more per mile to run these golf carts than it does to buy gas.

Once again, rich early adopters. Money is no problem. And electricity can be had cheaper in some countries than others. Americans can afford to use massive amounts of the stuff, Canadians get it even cheaper. With time of use selling increasingly in place, electrictiy is being shifted towards down time which makes it massively cheaper. This is because there's no shortage of electricity at night and because the cost of generating peak usage time electricity is much higher than generating a steady flow of power. During peak hours utilities have to add quick-start, high cost plant to the generating mix. Since cars charge over night, they can be cheaper to charge than your rush hour electricity.

I am paying off-peak prices of 5 or 6 cents a Kilowatt-hour. During peak time the cost is more like 8-10 cents (I don't recall the exact details).

5.  If electric cars are so good, why did GM kill off their project in the 1990s and destroy all the cars?  Because they wanted to ge rid of the embarrassment and stink.  If there were a model of how to make profit from them, someone would be doing them.

Because GM is a Detroit-based company. The Big Automobile companies are as dumb as half a brick.

Mistakes happen, and the 1990s was a long time ago. Remember the Edsel? More about the stupidity of automobile companies when we get to the question of fires.

6.  Electric cars are slow.  None of them are safe at highway speed, I'm surprised the NTSB even agrees to allow them on our interstates given their awful crash records, inability to keep to speed, etc.

They said the same thing about the Volkswagen Beetle, if you are old enough to remember when those were noisy, stinking little rattle boxes that could only pass going down hill. I don't believe electric cars are really unsafe by any reasonable standard. For one thing, a Tesla is a luxury car and people avoid running into luxury cars (especially foreign luxury cars that have a bumper sticker that reads: MY OTHER DRIVER IS ALSO A LAWYER WHO WILL SUE YOUR TOENAILS OFF.


7.  They always catch on fire.  When was the last time you heard of a gasoline car fire?  Yet, we almost daily hear of another Volt or Tesla blowing up.

How many have caught on fire? I know of one. On the other, meet the Ford Pinto! And those rolling SUVs that burst into flames all the time. Electric car fires have, since the Nineteenth Century, been a very small problem compared to the problem that the internal combustion gasoline engine runs on an explosive fuel and the coal fired steam engine runs directly on stinking filthy coal (or wood in Canada in Russia in the heydey of trains).

Seriously... just wait until Hydrogen Fuel Cells come out.  Then we'll have a real form of alternative combustion.  Until then, its gas all the way for me.

Oh, you're a hydrogen bug.

Speaking of fires. Oh, the huge manatee!

Well, lots of luck. How do you suppose they will make hydrogen? At the moment the usual method involves large amounts of electricity.

Sure, hydrogen burns clean to make one byproduct, water. But it has most of the flaws that you attribute to electric cars. You need massive amounts of it which has to be stored in rare earth metal storage grids, which are essentially very like gigantic, heavy and unsafe batteries. And so forth.

I think I have provided accurate and rational responses to all of your objections to electric cars. Or you could do as I do, and walk. I wish bikers would get off of their high horses.

WE PEDESTRIANS WERE GREEN BEFORE FIRE WAS INVENTED.


And we do have the right of way, you know. Remember that, dammit! Sometimes you're as bad or worse than motorists. At least they seem to have a concept of their own mortality. That's why you make them so mad when you pull silly stunts or God forbid, touch their silly cars.
 
2014-01-30 12:04:00 PM  
Before I read the article ... "because no one wants to live in Norway anymore?"

(RTFA)

Okay, Good luck driving across Wyoming ..
 
2014-01-30 12:11:28 PM  

AbiNormal: It's hard to believe these people were once the most feared in the world. Now they are considered the nicest.


I have a theory. When a people, religion, or nation are young, they are often quite rambunctious. But as they age, they mellow.

Puritans turned into liberals (the UK, the Netherlands, the Scandinavians, Canadians and New Englanders).

The Vikings turned into shy, quiet, stand-offish social democrats (Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Finland).

The older Protestant sects are the nicest and the most liberal now (Lutherans, Mennonites, Unitarians, Episcopalians, Quakers, etc.) Even Methodists have really mellowed out as have Mormons. A liberal Mormon is a wonderful person. Even some of the people who wear weird headgear and dress funny (Pentacostals, Mormons, Muslims) are terribly nice people in as individuals or in small numbers despite their fears and prejudices.

In short, every thing human goes through a life cycle that is often dialectic. You start out with zeal and fury and end up with liberal social democratic Norwegian Unitarians or something very like.

I hate to think what the Borg or the warlike Romulans and Klingons will be like in a few more centuries. Probably the Vulcans or Confederation humans, actually.
 
2014-01-30 12:43:40 PM  

yakmans_dad: drg8r: Wait What? Norway is the fourth richest country in the world? From what? Sardines? Inquiring minds need to know!

They've saved and invested their North Sea petro-dollars.


This.  They're 4th in GDP/capita(US is 6th*) and all the others are really tiny banks and really tiny oil countries:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_ca pita  (Using IMF list)

* And yes, 1%.  .316 GINI to .378 GINI after-tax.  So at absolute worst case, the 1% are stealing 10% of GDP more than they were 40 years ago.  Burn that money, and we're in 7th (behind Hong Kong, but ahead of Switzerland) while still being exactly as equal as we were 40 years ago.
 
2014-01-30 01:17:28 PM  

alywa: This whole electric car thing is such a crock of BS . . .


Now *this* is how you troll.
 
2014-01-30 05:29:07 PM  

MrSteve007: alywa: This whole electric car thing is such a crock of BS . . .

Now *this* is how you troll.


It's... beautiful.

[staring_cat.jpg]
 
2014-01-31 08:10:18 AM  

AbiNormal: It's hard to believe these people were once the most feared in the world. Now they are considered the nicest.


Yes, we're really nice. We're polite and like to think things through. As a norm we avoid violence, we're highly educated and willing to help strangers.
But also, our special forces are the best in the world at what they do. It's just like it was a thousand years ago, only now we're less raidy and more selling-you-oil-y.
 
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