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(KTAR Phoenix)   Remember how in the State of the Union the President praised Costco for paying employees a higher than minimum wage? One employee would like to have a rebuttal   (ktar.com) divider line 98
    More: Interesting, State of the Union, Costco, President Obama, Tempe  
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17356 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jan 2014 at 12:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-01-30 11:43:17 AM  
20 votes:
That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.
2014-01-30 11:46:39 AM  
11 votes:
One employee anonymously complains about working for Costco? One? Couldn't get two, or five?

Must be true, then, Thanks, Bob McClay, fearless defender of freedom and the American way. I'll be canceling my Costco membership and shopping elsewhere for cheap booze and industrial sized disinfectant wipes.

Oh, who am I kidding. I can't quit you, Costco!
2014-01-30 12:05:07 PM  
10 votes:
So the gist is "Yeah, we get paid that much, but my particular store is poorly run and I hate it".

Welcome to the White House President Palin.
2014-01-30 12:36:24 PM  
9 votes:

SlothB77: First, he is showing that we don't need to raise the minimum wage to force companies to pay their workers more.


No, we do, since 99% of company owners would rather have their teeth removed with rusty pliers than give their workers a decent salary. The President was using Costco as a good example of how well and profitable a company can run when their workers are treated well to show the business world that it actually CAN be done. But they won't listen, because they'll just sit there in bed at night, thinking about all of that money they're pissing away by paying their workers more. "Who cares if my workers can afford to live moderately nicely now? I'm not as rich as my super rich neighbor, and that makes me sad!"
2014-01-30 12:24:22 PM  
9 votes:

OregonVet: That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.


I haven't commented on the story yet.

Yeah, that article was bad.  But the president is doing more to hurt his cause here.

First, he is showing that we don't need to raise the minimum wage to force companies to pay their workers more.  Here he shows CostCo willingly does pay their workers more without government intervention.  Kind of implodes the myth that big retailers don't care about their employees and will only pay them the bare minimum.  So it argues for not raising the minimum wage and let companies have the choice.

Second, Obama says $11.50 an hour still isn't enough.  Well, what is enough?  Where do you draw the line?  Is $12.50 enough?  Is $13.50 enough?  All of these numbers are very arbitrary.  Just like when this gov got involved in health care and thought they could do it smarter than the private sector and it blew up in their face, the same will happen here.  You can't just pick a number arbitrarily and expect everything to function smoothly.  Economies don't work like that.  Even at the current minimum wage figure, companies use illegals in a secondary black market to subvert those controls.  That problem will only get worse if the minimum wage is raised.
2014-01-30 12:06:12 PM  
9 votes:
"Sure, we start out at $11.50 per hour, but they work us really hard! And there's high turnover!"

Apparently this guy hasn't worked in other places, like Kmart, where they have the same problems but they pay you less.
2014-01-30 12:45:13 PM  
8 votes:
That worker is most likely a millennial. They biatch and moan about having to get out of bed in the morning. I could feel some sympathy if he said he is having to work overtime with short pay, or say he actually wasn't getting the $11.50 an hour like they say he is. But he doesn't. Instead it is all "Blah, blah, blah. I have to actually do work and shiat. It's hard to have to earn my living and get paid for it."
2014-01-30 01:07:12 PM  
7 votes:

SlothB77: Second, Obama says $11.50 an hour still isn't enough.  Well, what is enough?  Where do you draw the line?  Is $12.50 enough?  Is $13.50 enough?  All of these numbers are very arbitrary.  Just like when this gov got involved in health care and thought they could do it smarter than the private sector and it blew up in their face, the same will happen here.  You can't just pick a number arbitrarily and expect everything to function smoothly.  Economies don't work like that.  Even at the current minimum wage figure, companies use illegals in a secondary black market to subvert those controls.  That problem will only get worse if the minimum wage is raised.



1)  The Government has been involved in the insurance industry since the 19th century (states) and 1944 (United States vs. SEUA) and codified in the McCarran Act.

2)  The private sector, particularly the segment dealing with individual policyholders purchasing health plans, hasn't been able to provide an product with adequate coverage at a reasonable price as evinced by the fact that large segments of the population remained uninsured due to the fact that coverage was not affordable.  Further, insurance companies have no incentive to write policies that cover the sick (those with pre-existing conditions), the elderly (those who do or may develop such conditions), or those who present personal or financial risks (smokers, people who drink alcohol, the poor, etc).  Without gov't intervention such populations would have to do without health insurance, and as a consequence, without true medical care.

3)  The government has often gotten involved in the pricing of insurance policies, regulating rates and rate increases, especially in the property and casualty arena.  The government has also often required parties to provide insurance which is why you currently benefit from workers compensation insurance (instead of being shiat out of luck) and the third party liability coverage provided by auto insurance purchased by others (again, instead of being shiat out of luck).  It's because of the gov't that your claim isn't automatically denied as a matter of procedure, forcing you to assert a claim in court to force the company to comply (sure they can still try but there are severe consequences if discovered).

4)  If you actually worked in the insurance industry you'd realize just how shockingly predatory and amazingly ignorant health insurers can be.  "Doing it better" is a laughably childish notion since, from their perspective, doing it better means improving their loss ratio by reducing or eliminating the amount they have to pay in claims and thus increasing the return to their shareholders. Providing better coverage at an affordable price isn't their goal.


/insurance professional with regulatory experience
2014-01-30 12:52:39 PM  
7 votes:

SlothB77: So it argues for not raising the minimum wage and let companies have the choice.


One company doing the right thing does not make the case for all companies to be given the choice not to do the right thing.

Capitalism, unfortunately, is full of lying, scheming, greedy shiatbags. We implement regulations, laws, and compliancy controls to ensure that capitalists stop being lying, scheming, greedy shiatbags. The mere existence of one entity that can actually find it within them to not be a lying, scheming, greedy shiatbag is NOT grounds for all of them to have the propensity to not be lying, scheming, greedy shiatbags. Because if given the choice, as you can see, they'd still prefer to be lying, scheming, greedy shiatbags.

So if not the minimum wage, then how else would you like to prevent them from being lying, scheming, greedy shiatbags?
2014-01-30 12:49:44 PM  
7 votes:
Minimum wage should be $15/hr + healthcare.
2014-01-30 12:26:25 PM  
6 votes:

SlothB77: OregonVet: That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.

I haven't commented on the story yet.


I guess Oregonvet will have to update his statement, then.
2014-01-30 01:05:16 PM  
5 votes:

SlothB77: OregonVet: That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.

I haven't commented on the story yet.

Yeah, that article was bad.  But the president is doing more to hurt his cause here.

First, he is showing that we don't need to raise the minimum wage to force companies to pay their workers more.  Here he shows CostCo willingly does pay their workers more without government intervention.  Kind of implodes the myth that big retailers don't care about their employees and will only pay them the bare minimum.  So it argues for not raising the minimum wage and let companies have the choice.

Second, Obama says $11.50 an hour still isn't enough.  Well, what is enough?  Where do you draw the line?  Is $12.50 enough?  Is $13.50 enough?  All of these numbers are very arbitrary.  Just like when this gov got involved in health care and thought they could do it smarter than the private sector and it blew up in their face, the same will happen here.  You can't just pick a number arbitrarily and expect everything to function smoothly.  Economies don't work like that.  Even at the current minimum wage figure, companies use illegals in a secondary black market to subvert those controls.  That problem will only get worse if the minimum wage is raised.


Okay, here's deal...
Min wage on average in Europe is 12.90 USD. They have free health care. Better jobs and work environments and an education system that makes ours look like we should be riding the short bus with Iran. You wanna play this game go on. They are posting massive profits but in reality the best companies don't need profits they need better book keepers.
2014-01-30 12:50:24 PM  
5 votes:
Minimum wage needs to be tied to the COL. A hard number is a fool's errand.
2014-01-30 12:45:29 PM  
5 votes:

lennavan: Well son-of-a-biatch.  I was all for companies paying workers higher wages until I read an anonymous Costco worker explain that his job higher paying job was difficult.


Yeah, what is the world coming to if "hard-working Americans" have to work hard?
2014-01-30 12:45:27 PM  
5 votes:

bongmiester: Lando Lincoln: "Sure, we start out at $11.50 per hour, but they work us really hard! And there's high turnover!"

Apparently this guy hasn't worked in other places, like Kmart, where they have the same problems but they pay you less.

it's been my experience that the amount you are worked is inversely proportional to the amount your are paid (for some reason)

You're not the only one who's noticed that.  I worked far harder for $6.85 an hour than I did for $65,000 a year.
2014-01-30 12:45:18 PM  
5 votes:
"Yeah, they pay well, but they expect you to work for it.  Thanks, Obama."
2014-01-30 12:43:34 PM  
5 votes:
In other words, President Obama told the truth but one malcontent wants to let you know he doesn't like his job.  My advice is to go find another one that meets up with his discerning standards.
2014-01-30 01:21:11 PM  
4 votes:

MugzyBrown: JK47: 1)  The Government has been involved in the insurance industry since the 19th century (states) and 1944 (United States vs. SEUA) and codified in the McCarran Act.

Which led to



Which led to the Insurance Indusdry getting an anti-trust exemption that allows them to implement anti-competitive measures like price fixing and collusion.

Interestingly enough, when health reform negotiations were happening in 2009, the Democrats pitched the idea of repealing the McCarran-Ferguson Act and removing the insurance industry's anti-trust exemption, forcing them to play on a competitive market, the "defenders of the free market" GOP pitched a gale force hissy fit to nip it in the bud.

Which is why any GOPer who claims they're for "free market solutions" for curbing America's runaway health care costs can promptly be pointed and laughed at.
2014-01-30 01:08:19 PM  
4 votes:
What about a maximum wage? CEOs could only make 200x more than the lowest paid employee at a company. That mean that if your minimum wage is 30,000 dollars a year, your CEO is maxed out at 6 million. That would make the CEOs raise their starting salaries pretty quickly.
2014-01-30 01:00:52 PM  
4 votes:
Marty
As a stockholder of both Costco and Walmart I resent the hel* l out of this no good po s jerk, huesinne obammma, interfering with private enterprise, specifically, COST. This p. os has to be stopped. He's way the hel* l out of line. And, the republicans won't do anything about this jerk. WHY??


Is a Fark Independent posting comments under TFA?

SlothB77: OregonVet: That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.

I haven't commented on the story yet.

Yeah, that article was bad.  But the president is doing more to hurt his cause here.

First, he is showing that we don't need to raise the minimum wage to force companies to pay their workers more.  Here he shows CostCo willingly  ..... That problem will only get worse if the minimum wage is raised.


Damn you for being right! You really did write something dumber than TFA.
Ant
2014-01-30 12:48:11 PM  
4 votes:

Headso: cato113: OregonVet: That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.

You didn't read the comments

fark is like the Algonquin Round Table compared to that.


The average Fark post is like a doctoral thesis compared to the posts on most comment sections on the internet.
2014-01-30 12:47:40 PM  
4 votes:
I should not have expected there to be a rational thought in that article
2014-01-30 12:16:18 PM  
4 votes:
Boo farking hoo, yeah, retail and warehouse work is hard.

Always get a MUCH better vibe in Costco than Sam's.
2014-01-30 12:02:33 PM  
4 votes:

OregonVet: That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.


You didn't read the comments
2014-01-30 11:53:25 AM  
4 votes:

OregonVet: That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.


Same here.  And that's including the "Edward Snowden's psychic human ETs revealed" article.
2014-01-30 01:25:13 PM  
3 votes:

MugzyBrown: dpzum1: Yea... and income tax in France is around 40% Sales tax, around 20%..Go on, have at it.

and 90% Debt to GDP


Yes, if there's one great indicator for a great country to live in, it's the Debt to GDP ratio.

Liberia, Cuba, North Korea, Algeria, Bulgaria, Kazakhstan ... all paradises with their insanely low debt to GDP ratios.
2014-01-30 01:19:09 PM  
3 votes:

error 303: If the store is understaffed, doesn't that mean they need to lure, and retain more employees, which can be most easily accomplished by increasing their salary and offering more benefits?

Didn't this guy just make the argument for INCREASING the wages Costco pays their employees in order to foster a better, more productive work environment?


At three unemployed for every open position, you think being understaffed is due to a lack of available manpower?  Companies are understaffed because they want to be.  They're addicted to that sweet Quarterly EPS.
2014-01-30 01:15:20 PM  
3 votes:

alice_600: SlothB77: OregonVet: That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.

I haven't commented on the story yet.

Yeah, that article was bad.  But the president is doing more to hurt his cause here.

First, he is showing that we don't need to raise the minimum wage to force companies to pay their workers more.  Here he shows CostCo willingly does pay their workers more without government intervention.  Kind of implodes the myth that big retailers don't care about their employees and will only pay them the bare minimum.  So it argues for not raising the minimum wage and let companies have the choice.

Second, Obama says $11.50 an hour still isn't enough.  Well, what is enough?  Where do you draw the line?  Is $12.50 enough?  Is $13.50 enough?  All of these numbers are very arbitrary.  Just like when this gov got involved in health care and thought they could do it smarter than the private sector and it blew up in their face, the same will happen here.  You can't just pick a number arbitrarily and expect everything to function smoothly.  Economies don't work like that.  Even at the current minimum wage figure, companies use illegals in a secondary black market to subvert those controls.  That problem will only get worse if the minimum wage is raised.

Okay, here's deal...
Min wage on average in Europe is 12.90 USD. They have free health care. Better jobs and work environments and an education system that makes ours look like we should be riding the short bus with Iran. You wanna play this game go on. They are posting massive profits but in reality the best companies don't need profits they need better book keepers.


Yea... and income tax in France is around 40% Sales tax, around 20%..Go on, have at it.
2014-01-30 12:58:39 PM  
3 votes:

SlothB77: First, he is showing that we don't need to raise the minimum wage to force companies to pay their workers more. Here he shows CostCo willingly does pay their workers more without government intervention. Kind of implodes the myth that big retailers don't care about their employees and will only pay them the bare minimum. So it argues for not raising the minimum wage and let companies have the choice.


One company does the right thing, and that somehow means big retailers don't care about their employees? The reason Costco is cited is because they are the anomaly, not the norm.
2014-01-30 12:57:23 PM  
3 votes:
While the store pays $11.50, he complained that Costco works its employees too hard. He said that his store has a high turnover rate and is understaffed, leading to a heavier work load for those that still work there.

1. Show up on time ready to begin work or call if there's an emergency.
2. Get your work done properly.
3. Don't steal stuff.
4. Treat customers and fellow employees with respect.

Too much to expect for $11.50 an hour? It seems no one wants to work under those terrible conditions.
2014-01-30 12:55:35 PM  
3 votes:
Minimum wage  is $7.25
Entry level at Costco $11.50.

That's pretty good.
2014-01-30 12:54:38 PM  
3 votes:
How this piece of shiat opinion piece ever got greenlit is beyond me. Not one of your better moments Fark.

/ holy shiat is Fark going downhill fast
2014-01-30 12:48:06 PM  
3 votes:
look man i tried being a cashier at costco but they wanted me to work

i mean i know they were paying a lot more than what other companies that offer similar work pay but that is no reason to create an environment that drives people to excel rather than just skate by

thanks obama
2014-01-30 12:47:34 PM  
3 votes:
They work you too hard?  Welcome to retail, pussy.
2014-01-30 12:47:15 PM  
3 votes:
Obama: "Costco pays their employees $11.50/hour"

Rebuttal:  "True, but Costco makes their employees work hard"
2014-01-30 12:47:13 PM  
3 votes:
"While the store pays $11.50, he complained that Costco works its employees too hard. He said that his store has a high turnover rate and is understaffed, leading to a heavier work load for those that still work there. "

So they want hard workers and expect you to prove it?  Perhaps "earn" that 11.50?  This is certainly the worst thing in the history of things.
2014-01-30 01:28:14 PM  
2 votes:

MugzyBrown: Mrtraveler01: And this is why I can't worship the free-market as blindly as you guys do. When has a monopoly ever been a positive thing for the consumer?

In almost every scenario, a monopoly is the result of government intervention.

 

Skipped 19th Century US History, I take it.
2014-01-30 01:25:48 PM  
2 votes:
To all who oppose the existence of a minimum wage, I would ask you to list all countries in the world without a minimum wage.  Then once you have that figured out, tell me how many of those lovely, advanced countries you would want to move to and work in.
2014-01-30 01:24:30 PM  
2 votes:

MugzyBrown: Anti-trust laws do not make a free market by definition.


And this is why I can't worship the free-market as blindly as you guys do. When has a monopoly ever been a positive thing for the consumer?
2014-01-30 01:17:10 PM  
2 votes:

SphericalTime: What about a maximum wage? CEOs could only make 200x more than the lowest paid employee at a company. That mean that if your minimum wage is 30,000 dollars a year, your CEO is maxed out at 6 million. That would make the CEOs raise their starting salaries pretty quickly.


I'd say more like 50 to 1 would be appropriate. 40 years ago the average S&P 500 CEO wage was about 30x the company median wage. In 1950 it was 20x the median. Now it's over 350x the median.

Of course there are multiple ways the government could address income and wealth inequality. They don't necessarily have to put a hard cap on CEO pay. More tax brackets at the high end that include some much higher rates with fewer loopholes would help.
2014-01-30 01:12:20 PM  
2 votes:

OregonVet: That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.


I got as far as "While the store pays $11.50, he complained that Costco works its employees too hard." before I stopped and thought, damn, this plays right into the "the poor are lazy and don't want to work hard" trope the GOP wants to push.
2014-01-30 01:00:28 PM  
2 votes:
KTAR is the right-wing derpy talk station in Phoenix. Based on what I've read on this forum, the article in questions is just as derpy as I anticipated.
2014-01-30 01:00:14 PM  
2 votes:
*worlds tinniest violin pic*

Seriously If you talk to 100 people, 99 will tell you they work harder then they feel their paycheck reflects, doesn't matter if they make minimum wage or pull in $500,000 a year, just about everyone will complain they're over worked.


So put on you big-boy pants STFU and GBTW
2014-01-30 12:55:04 PM  
2 votes:
I'm salaried, but I usually put in close to 55-60 hours a week.  I don't get overtime.  Be happy you have a job and get back to work.
GCD
2014-01-30 12:54:22 PM  
2 votes:
Not sure about the US CostCo versus the Canadian CostCo, but I know a few people that work at CostCo and they absolutely LOVE it there. It actually somewhat baffles me, but c'est la vie...it seems to pay well, has good benefits...the hours may be a little odd, especially if you work on the backshift...but again, that seems to suit some people just fine too.

Good on CostCo I say.
2014-01-30 12:52:23 PM  
2 votes:

Lando Lincoln: MugzyBrown: Costco serves a mid-to upper middle class customer base

Sams serves a low to low middle class customer base

That's why.

Please elaborate. Are Sam's Club's wares geared towards lower class people?


Owned by Walmart.  You do the math
2014-01-30 12:50:37 PM  
2 votes:

Lando Lincoln: SlothB77: First, he is showing that we don't need to raise the minimum wage to force companies to pay their workers more.

No, we do, since 99% of company owners would rather have their teeth removed with rusty pliers than give their workers a decent salary. The President was using Costco as a good example of how well and profitable a company can run when their workers are treated well to show the business world that it actually CAN be done. But they won't listen, because they'll just sit there in bed at night, thinking about all of that money they're pissing away by paying their workers more. "Who cares if my workers can afford to live moderately nicely now? I'm not as rich as my super rich neighbor, and that makes me sad!"


Another way to look at it -- Costco pays a higher wage and as a result can be picky about who they hire and keep ("hard workers" to put it generally).  Why can't other employers do exactly the same thing?
2014-01-30 12:50:03 PM  
2 votes:

rikdanger: One employee anonymously complains about working for Costco? One? Couldn't get two, or five?

Must be true, then, Thanks, Bob McClay, fearless defender of freedom and the American way. I'll be canceling my Costco membership and shopping elsewhere for cheap booze and industrial sized disinfectant wipes.

Oh, who am I kidding. I can't quit you, Costco!


Of course a Lib wouldn't care about 1 man left behind enemy lines. Costghazi!
2014-01-30 12:47:29 PM  
2 votes:

cato113: OregonVet: That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.

You didn't read the comments


"As a stockholder of both Costco and Walmart I resent the hel* l out of this no good po s jerk, huesinne obammma, interfering with private enterprise, specifically, COST. This p. os has to be stopped. He's way the hel* l out of line. And, the republicans won't do anything about this jerk. WHY??"

Where in the hell is that asteroid?
2014-01-30 12:44:51 PM  
2 votes:
Er...what rebuttal?
2014-01-30 12:42:10 PM  
2 votes:

Lando Lincoln: "Sure, we start out at $11.50 per hour, but they work us really hard! And there's high turnover!"

Apparently this guy hasn't worked in other places, like Kmart, where they have the same problems but they pay you less.


it's been my experience that the amount you are worked is inversely proportional to the amount your are paid (for some reason)
2014-01-30 12:31:00 PM  
2 votes:
Well.

There it is.

The stupidest farking thing I'll read all day.
2014-01-30 12:29:30 PM  
2 votes:
Well son-of-a-biatch.  I was all for companies paying workers higher wages until I read an anonymous Costco worker explain that his job higher paying job was difficult.
2014-01-30 12:10:32 PM  
2 votes:

Lando Lincoln: "Sure, we start out at $11.50 per hour, but they work us really hard! And there's high turnover!"

Apparently this guy hasn't worked in other places, like Kmart, where they have the same problems but they pay you less.


And most people who work there don't have those complaints, that I know of - around here, it's a desirable job for those without a lot of specialized skills and there is a waiting list to even get interviewed.
2014-01-30 11:48:47 AM  
2 votes:

OregonVet: That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.


The day is young.
2014-01-30 04:46:09 PM  
1 votes:
How the F did this get greenlit with the "Interesting" tag?  Hey subby use the Asinine tag for 1) an article as ridiculously stupid as this, 2) for the poor worker whining about having to work hard.
2014-01-30 04:44:21 PM  
1 votes:

Newfiesnowman: Uncontrolled_Jibe: SphericalTime: What about a maximum wage? CEOs could only make 200x more than the lowest paid employee at a company. That mean that if your minimum wage is 30,000 dollars a year, your CEO is maxed out at 6 million. That would make the CEOs raise their starting salaries pretty quickly.

So if you have 100 employees at $30k or 10,000 employees at $30k you make the same pay?

YES! That's still 6,000,000 / year or 500,000 / month. What does it matter that you have 100, 10,000, or 100,000? Are you even trying to argue that anyone deserves more then 500,000/month?

It's greed and nothing short of that. Most people would be happy with 100,000 / year.

Also, if someone wants to pay me 6,000,000 per year and tax me at 70% I'm perfectly fine with that. You'd still clear 1,800,000 per year or 150,000 / month.

Seriously, what's wrong with people?


Well, and the nice thing is that if you thought that you deserved more than that, all you would have to do is raise the wages of the lowest paid employees.  If you've got 250 people making 60,000 a year, that probably deserves more than the 500,000 a month.

On the other hand, if you're Walmart, and your business is built around a million employees making poverty level wages, you definitely don't deserve even six million dollars a year.
2014-01-30 04:43:29 PM  
1 votes:

gar1013: Here's a good thought experiment regarding minimum wage:

1) Would you be fine with minimum wage being set at your current earnings?

2) Would you still put in the same amount of effort at your job if you knew that you were compensated at the minimum amount required by law?

3) Would you contine to work at your same job, or would you find another job, knowing that you wouldn't be any worse of financially for having done so?



Here's where your thought experiment failed.  You didn't realize if minimum wage was set at my current compensation level, my current employer would raise the salary for my position in order to keep competitive.  They'd probably raise prices, not that they need to because they can afford it quite easily.

But yes, yes I would keep working my same job even if other people in easier jobs made as much as I do.  I don't gauge my success by how much better I am doing than other people.  You see, I'm not an asshole like it seems you are.  I get by just fine.  If my neighbors are also getting by just fine, that has no bearing on my life -- I'm happy for them.
2014-01-30 04:18:03 PM  
1 votes:

SlothB77: OregonVet: That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.

I haven't commented on the story yet.

Yeah, that article was bad.  But the president is doing more to hurt his cause here.

First, he is showing that we don't need to raise the minimum wage to force companies to pay their workers more.  Here he shows CostCo willingly does pay their workers more without government intervention.  Kind of implodes the myth that big retailers don't care about their employees and will only pay them the bare minimum.  So it argues for not raising the minimum wage and let companies have the choice.

Second, Obama says $11.50 an hour still isn't enough.  Well, what is enough?  Where do you draw the line?  Is $12.50 enough?  Is $13.50 enough?  All of these numbers are very arbitrary.  Just like when this gov got involved in health care and thought they could do it smarter than the private sector and it blew up in their face, the same will happen here.  You can't just pick a number arbitrarily and expect everything to function smoothly.  Economies don't work like that.  Even at the current minimum wage figure, companies use illegals in a secondary black market to subvert those controls.  That problem will only get worse if the minimum wage is raised.


How much is "enough"? Well, that's very simple.  Enough is the Hourly wage that allows a person to wrk 40 hours per week and not need government assistance to afford healthcare, Housing, transportation or food.  In other words "enough" is the number at which the economic activity and profits of a large corporation are nont subsidized by me, the taxpayer in the form of financial assistance to its employees
2014-01-30 04:15:15 PM  
1 votes:
Here's a good thought experiment regarding minimum wage:

1) Would you be fine with minimum wage being set at your current earnings?

2) Would you still put in the same amount of effort at your job if you knew that you were compensated at the minimum amount required by law?

3) Would you contine to work at your same job, or would you find another job, knowing that you wouldn't be any worse of financially for having done so?

4) Would you still invest the same amount of time and effort in your education and career development, knowing that those efforts don't produce an incremental benefit in your earning capacity?

5) Assume we let the minimum wage be less than what you make. What level should that be? What impact would it have on those who were above minimum wage, who now find themselves at minimum wage?

6) For those who are currently at minimum wage, and still seem barely able to handle their jobs, do you think they would be employed at a higher minimum wage, or do you think they would be chronically locked out of the labor market?
2014-01-30 04:14:39 PM  
1 votes:
The article was too dumb to engage so let me instead note these interesting facts:

Sam's Club also charges a membership fee, has the exact same business model as Costco but only pays, on average minimum wage. According to the Harvard Business Review, Costco's average hourly wage for employees is 72% higher than Sam's ($17 vs $9.62/hr) Furthermore 82% of Costco workers have health insurance vs. only 50% of Sam's workers and Costco pays 88% of health insurance premiums whereas Sams pays just 66%
Despite all this, even though Costco is paying MUCH more per employee, Costco has MUCH higher profits both overall and on a per-store basis. Some of the reasons for that is employee turn-over is much lower than at Sams 17% v 44% which saves Costco almost half-billion a year in employee turn over costs. Also Costco has the lowest rate of "shrinkage" in the industry (theft of inventory by workers) saving them even more.
They really are doing good by doing right
2014-01-30 03:15:51 PM  
1 votes:
Maybe my Costcos are different, but I've seen the same people working there forever, so I don't think they have massive turnover issues.
2014-01-30 03:11:17 PM  
1 votes:
"I guarantee that if workers had a little more money in their pocket, they'll spend more at Costco," the president said. "And if Costco starts seeing more customers, they'll start hiring some more folk."

I had a libby friend try that logic.  "All these companies are just sitting on money.  They need to hire more people.  It doesnt matter if the work is there.  Those people will have money and they will buy more things from the company.  Everyone wins"

I then then asked him what the company does if the employees decide they want a big screen tv instead of a vacuum cleaner their employer sells.  The company would then be out the money, have increased weekly expenses, and be less likely to survive a recession.

He said nothing.. but later kept up his opinion that business just need to pay more money.  (and orders will magically show up)

Needless to say, he never owned a business in his life, and works for the federal government.
2014-01-30 02:43:30 PM  
1 votes:

SlothB77: First, he is showing that we don't need to raise the minimum wage to force companies to pay their workers more.  Here he shows CostCo willingly does pay their workers more without government intervention.  Kind of implodes the myth that big retailers don't care about their employees and will only pay them the bare minimum.


Like all Republican, you fail at basic logic.

The existence of CostCo does not prove big retailers care about their employees, because Wal Mart proves they don't.

However, it does prove big retailers can pay above minimum wage and be profitable.
2014-01-30 02:21:15 PM  
1 votes:

coeyagi: mod3072: I'm not a fan of the president, but that was a pretty damn weak rebuttal.

So, basically, everything the GOP does that is petualent / retarded / asinine / obstructionist was fine for the past 5 years, but THIS is where you draw the line?

//i know, that's PROBABLY strawmaning it a bit.


You are apparently reading a lot more into my post than I was intending to say, because I'm not even sure what you are talking about.
2014-01-30 02:03:59 PM  
1 votes:
So basically the one person in the article they could find to complain is biatching that work is hard.
2014-01-30 01:52:56 PM  
1 votes:
Shorter version: Sure, they pay us, but would you believe they expect us to work?
2014-01-30 01:37:50 PM  
1 votes:

MugzyBrown: Mrtraveler01: "It's not free-markety enough!"

Explain what part of the health care industry was free market at all?

The US Healthcare industry is the worst of all worlds because it is a mutant hybrid of crony capitalism and government interventions


Your thesis is that since with the current amount of regulation, insurance companies do their damnedest not to pay out claims and to provide care for people, if we would only get rid of government's interference, the insurance companies will magically start caring about patients more than profits?  Is there a unicorn variable I'm missing in here somewhere because this equation isn't adding up.
2014-01-30 01:30:22 PM  
1 votes:

Lando Lincoln: "Sure, we start out at $11.50 per hour, but they work us really hard! And there's high turnover!"

Apparently this guy hasn't worked in other places, like Kmart, where they have the same problems but they pay you less.


It's how most businesses works now, especially customer service.

Reduced hours per employee plus fewer employees, but they still expect you to do the same total amount of work. They get to keep the pay low because by intentionally hiring too few employees, national unemployment is high. What are you going to do, quit and get a new job? No one's hiring, for the same reason.
2014-01-30 01:26:55 PM  
1 votes:

patrick767: SphericalTime: What about a maximum wage? CEOs could only make 200x more than the lowest paid employee at a company. That mean that if your minimum wage is 30,000 dollars a year, your CEO is maxed out at 6 million. That would make the CEOs raise their starting salaries pretty quickly.

I'd say more like 50 to 1 would be appropriate. 40 years ago the average S&P 500 CEO wage was about 30x the company median wage. In 1950 it was 20x the median. Now it's over 350x the median.

Of course there are multiple ways the government could address income and wealth inequality. They don't necessarily have to put a hard cap on CEO pay. More tax brackets at the high end that include some much higher rates with fewer loopholes would help.


And treat all income as the same for tax purposes.
2014-01-30 01:26:43 PM  
1 votes:
I've been shopping at the same Costco for over 10 years.  Some of the current checkers were there when I first started working there (not necessarily as a checker), and its rare to see more than one new face on my monthly visit.  So sounds like this dude either works at a shiatty Costco, or is just full of shiat.
2014-01-30 01:23:17 PM  
1 votes:

patrick767: We do? Then they're not working.


oh yes they are.

/things were a lot worse before they got better
2014-01-30 01:23:07 PM  
1 votes:

InmanRoshi: Which led to the Insurance Indusdry getting an anti-trust exemption that allows them to implement anti-competitive measures like price fixing and collusion.

Interestingly enough, when health reform negotiations were happening in 2009, the Democrats pitched the idea of repealing the McCarran-Ferguson Act and removing the insurance industry's anti-trust exemption, forcing them to play on a competitive market, the "defenders of the free market" GOP pitched a gale force hissy fit to nip it in the bud.

Which is why any GOPer who claims they're for "free market solutions" for curbing America's runaway health care costs can promptly be pointed and laughed at.


Anti-trust laws do not make a free market by definition.
2014-01-30 01:22:20 PM  
1 votes:

dpzum1:
Yea... and income tax in France is around 40% Sales tax, around 20%..Go on, have at it.

And people are on average happier. It seems to be working quite well.

MugzyBrown: JK47: 1)  The Government has been involved in the insurance industry since the 19th century (states) and 1944 (United States vs. SEUA) and codified in the McCarran Act.

Which led to

2)  The private sector, particularly the segment dealing with individual policyholders purchasing health plans, hasn't been able to provide an product with adequate coverage at a reasonable price as evinced by the fact that large segments of the population remained uninsured due to the fact that coverage was not affordable.  Further, insurance companies have no incentive to write policies that cover the sick (those with pre-existing conditions), the elderly (those who do or may develop such conditions), or those who present personal or financial risks (smokers, people who drink alcohol, the poor, etc).  Without gov't intervention such populations would have to do without health insurance, and as a consequence, without true medical care.

this is a cause again of #2


You're seriously arguing that it's the government's fault that private medical insurance sucks? lol... let me laugh louder.

Then why is it that virtually every other first world country in the world does health care better than the US, getting better outcomes for less money and covering more of their people, by having MORE government involvement in the system than we do?
2014-01-30 01:21:23 PM  
1 votes:
Both journalist and Costco employee deserve to be fire.d
2014-01-30 01:20:42 PM  
1 votes:

SlothB77: Economies don't work like that. Even at the current minimum wage figure, companies use illegals in a secondary black market to subvert those controls. That problem will only get worse if the minimum wage is raised.


Yeah... no.  Illegals are used in markets where no discernible difference in product is available.  Products like agricultural products and basic commodities.  Also, unskilled services such as house cleaning and basic construction (painting, drywalling, wire pulling).  "Illegals" get used in more skilled services (in landscaping particularly), but they generally are making over minimum and somewhat comparable to what naturalized citizens make.  They are used to skirt union labor though.

Where you have a product or service where people want to recognize and decide that you are better than the competition, you see significantly fewer illegal aliens.  Ironically, most of those products are made legally in foreign countries.  You must be advocating trade tariffs and pegging minimum wage to local costs of living.
2014-01-30 01:20:05 PM  
1 votes:
I'm not sure what this one guy is whining about.  So he wants more money because he's working harder, or will take a pay cut to work less hard?  I remember working a job like that, hated the down time, the day just drags.
2014-01-30 01:18:38 PM  
1 votes:

dpzum1: Yea... and income tax in France is around 40% Sales tax, around 20%..Go on, have at it.


and 90% Debt to GDP
2014-01-30 01:17:04 PM  
1 votes:

GCD: Not sure about the US CostCo versus the Canadian CostCo, but I know a few people that work at CostCo and they absolutely LOVE it there. It actually somewhat baffles me, but c'est la vie...it seems to pay well, has good benefits...the hours may be a little odd, especially if you work on the backshift...but again, that seems to suit some people just fine too.

Good on CostCo I say.


Seriously, they are way too happy for people working retail. I heard that they have like 1-2% turnover annually which is insanely low for the type of business. Makes it much nicer to shop there, add that to the money I save and it is a pretty freaking sweet deal all around. In Edmonton the place is always completely packed, every till is open and has a (admittedly fast moving) line. Parking is a bit of an adventure.
2014-01-30 01:15:37 PM  
1 votes:

Funkyourdaughter: I'm salaried, but I usually put in close to 55-60 hours a week.  I don't get overtime.  Be happy you have a job and get back to work.


I am sure you work that salaried position for $11.50.  Maybe $12.  No?  Oh, then maybe you should eat your f*cking apple and stick that orange up your ass.
2014-01-30 01:14:02 PM  
1 votes:
When people decided that instead of doing some research, getting trained, perhaps a college education they wanted to skate through life in a low skilled low paying job, the economy provided that for them. Now, being unhappy at the fact that a low skilled job doesn't pay enough, they want to be paid wages that a skilled, educated person would earn, without the effort.

Hence the dumbing down of America.

Oh, and fast food...
I never new anyone who was happy with their lifelong career (managers aside) at a fast food restaurant. THEY'RE NOT supposed to be carreers, or at least they weren't at one time.
2014-01-30 01:12:39 PM  
1 votes:
If the store is understaffed, doesn't that mean they need to lure, and retain more employees, which can be most easily accomplished by increasing their salary and offering more benefits?

Didn't this guy just make the argument for INCREASING the wages Costco pays their employees in order to foster a better, more productive work environment?
2014-01-30 01:11:09 PM  
1 votes:

JK47: 1)  The Government has been involved in the insurance industry since the 19th century (states) and 1944 (United States vs. SEUA) and codified in the McCarran Act.

Which led to

2)  The private sector, particularly the segment dealing with individual policyholders purchasing health plans, hasn't been able to provide an product with adequate coverage at a reasonable price as evinced by the fact that large segments of the population remained uninsured due to the fact that coverage was not affordable.  Further, insurance companies have no incentive to write policies that cover the sick (those with pre-existing conditions), the elderly (those who do or may develop such conditions), or those who present personal or financial risks (smokers, people who drink alcohol, the poor, etc).  Without gov't intervention such populations would have to do without health insurance, and as a consequence, without true medical care.

this is a cause again of #2

3)  The government has often gotten involved in the pricing of insurance policies, regulating rates and rate increases, especially in the property and casualty arena.  The government has also often required parties to provide insurance which is why you currently benefit from workers compensation insurance (instead of being shiat out of luck) and the third party liability coverage provided by auto insurance purchased by others (again, instead of being shiat out of luck).  It's because of the gov't that your claim isn't automatically denied as a matter of procedure, forcing you to assert a claim in court to force the company to comply (sure they can still try but there are severe consequences if discovered).

4)  If you actually worked in the insurance industry you'd realize just how shockingly predatory and amazingly ignorant health insurers can be.  "Doing it better" is a laughably childish notion since, from their perspective, doing it better means improving their loss ratio by reducing or eliminating the amount they have to pay in claims and thus increasing the return t ...

2014-01-30 01:06:12 PM  
1 votes:

Lando Lincoln: "Sure, we start out at $11.50 per hour, but they work us really hard! And there's high turnover!"

Apparently this guy hasn't worked in other places, like Kmart, where they have the same problems but they pay you less.


Nobody works at Kmart.  One of the twins needed a camera for a class.  The one she wanted was on sale at Kmart.  She was a little short of cash, so it was, "Oh daddy, dearest, please buy me the camera!".  Off we go to Kmart, and that in itself, is depressing.  We walk to the camera section, and nobody is at the counter.  We wait expecting a sales associate to notice.  Nobody notices.  We walk around a bit in the area, can't find anybody.  Go back to the counter, nobody there.  Split up and begin wandering through the store looking for somebody, anybody, connected to this operation.  I finally found this associate shambling down a aisle.  Told her we needed help in the camera section, got a semi-blank look, with the promise she would tell someone.  She shambled off, I found my daughter and we returned to the camera section.  After a while the was an announcement that somebody needs help in cameras.  A guy shows up, who was actually pretty knowledgeable and was able to answer all my daughter's questions.  Based on my experience, you could go in and pretty much strip the place clean and they wouldn't notice until the next day.
2014-01-30 01:05:44 PM  
1 votes:
This is the kind of hard-hitting, tenacious investigative reporting I've always admired from Bob McClay - IMO the strongest "Voice of Arizona." This guy attended Phoenix College - one of the most underrated journalism schools in the country. I also like his piece on his favorite restaurant (Fajitas).
2014-01-30 01:01:36 PM  
1 votes:

AeAe: Obama: "Costco pays their employees $11.50/hour"

Rebuttal:  "True, but Costco makes their employees work hard"


I don't know how POLITICO missed this whopper in their fact check.
2014-01-30 12:56:50 PM  
1 votes:
has a high turnover rate and is understaffed

As someone who worked at a Costco, the high turnover was due to seasonal hiring. We worked hard, but not hard enough that it was worth quitting over, especially considering how much we got paid compared to other similar jobs. Granted this was 2006, but starting pay in 2006 was $10.00 an hour at my particular store.
2014-01-30 12:55:43 PM  
1 votes:

SlothB77: OregonVet: That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.

I haven't commented on the story yet.

Yeah, that article was bad.  But the president is doing more to hurt his cause here.

First, he is showing that we don't need to raise the minimum wage to force companies to pay their workers more.  Here he shows CostCo willingly does pay their workers more without government intervention.  Kind of implodes the myth that big retailers don't care about their employees and will only pay them the bare minimum.  So it argues for not raising the minimum wage and let companies have the choice.

Second, Obama says $11.50 an hour still isn't enough.  Well, what is enough?  Where do you draw the line?  Is $12.50 enough?  Is $13.50 enough?  All of these numbers are very arbitrary.  Just like when this gov got involved in health care and thought they could do it smarter than the private sector and it blew up in their face, the same will happen here.  You can't just pick a number arbitrarily and expect everything to function smoothly.  Economies don't work like that.  Even at the current minimum wage figure, companies use illegals in a secondary black market to subvert those controls.  That problem will only get worse if the minimum wage is raised.


Let's make it $50/hour.  No matter that milk will be $25/gallon.
2014-01-30 12:55:24 PM  
1 votes:
The socialist should mind his own business about private business. By the way if you raise the minimum wage you will raise the cost of all food. Ten bucks for a hamburger anyone?

Oh the horror that your junk food may cost more!
2014-01-30 12:54:49 PM  
1 votes:

Lando Lincoln: MugzyBrown: Costco serves a mid-to upper middle class customer base

Sams serves a low to low middle class customer base

That's why.

Please elaborate. Are Sam's Club's wares geared towards lower class people?


Costco makes about 3x's more revenue per employee than Walmart.  Costco's locations are primarily suburban whereas Walmart and Sam's can also be found in very poor areas.

If you see a Costco, you'll probably also see Whole Foods, Panera, etc.
2014-01-30 12:54:33 PM  
1 votes:
This could be the dumbest thing posted on the internet in 2014 so far.
2014-01-30 12:49:57 PM  
1 votes:
Why did you guys make me go back and read the comments?  That was frightening and cruel.

"I own shares in wal*mart and Costco, f*ck Obama for praising a company I own stock in!"
"F*ck republicans.  You're all c*nts"
2014-01-30 12:49:51 PM  
1 votes:

bongmiester: Lando Lincoln: "Sure, we start out at $11.50 per hour, but they work us really hard! And there's high turnover!"

Apparently this guy hasn't worked in other places, like Kmart, where they have the same problems but they pay you less.

it's been my experience that the amount you are worked is inversely proportional to the amount your are paid (for some reason)


depends on the job. i got paid crap as a security guard, but i would hardly call it 'hard work'.

i did get a lot of walking in, when i was on swing shift... the building clocked out on a pedometer as something like six miles of walking from top to bottom(a full shift's worth of checks).
2014-01-30 12:47:40 PM  
1 votes:
Costco serves a mid-to upper middle class customer base

Sams serves a low to low middle class customer base

That's why.

The question is if the president is stupid or disingenuous.  Probably the latter.
2014-01-30 12:43:39 PM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: Well.

There it is.

The stupidest farking thing I'll read all day.


Careful - some farkers might take that as a challenge.
2014-01-30 12:40:42 PM  
1 votes:
...I love you.
2014-01-30 12:25:40 PM  
1 votes:

OregonVet: That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.


it's still early.
2014-01-30 12:05:46 PM  
1 votes:

cato113: OregonVet: That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.

You didn't read the comments


fark is like the Algonquin Round Table compared to that.
 
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