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(KTAR Phoenix)   Remember how in the State of the Union the President praised Costco for paying employees a higher than minimum wage? One employee would like to have a rebuttal   (ktar.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, State of the Union, Costco, President Obama, Tempe  
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17366 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jan 2014 at 12:37 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-30 01:18:24 PM  

alice_600: Okay, here's deal...
Min wage on average in Europe is 12.90 USD. They have free health care. Better jobs and work environments and an education system that makes ours look like we should be riding the short bus with Iran. You wanna play this game go on. They are posting massive profits but in reality the best companies don't need profits they need better book keepers.



Since the main thrust of opponents of a minimum wage hike is going to be that such a hike will reduce employment as businesses cut workers to compensate for increased labor cost citing Europe, where the youth (age 25 and younger) umemployment rate is 2 to 2.5 times higher than the rate in the United States and the overall unemployment rate is 50% higher than the rate in the United States, isn't going to be helpful.

Instead, lets focus on how the minimum wage has eroded, in terms of its original value, due to inflation since the amount was never indexed for inflation.
 
2014-01-30 01:18:38 PM  

dpzum1: Yea... and income tax in France is around 40% Sales tax, around 20%..Go on, have at it.


and 90% Debt to GDP
 
2014-01-30 01:19:09 PM  

error 303: If the store is understaffed, doesn't that mean they need to lure, and retain more employees, which can be most easily accomplished by increasing their salary and offering more benefits?

Didn't this guy just make the argument for INCREASING the wages Costco pays their employees in order to foster a better, more productive work environment?


At three unemployed for every open position, you think being understaffed is due to a lack of available manpower?  Companies are understaffed because they want to be.  They're addicted to that sweet Quarterly EPS.
 
2014-01-30 01:20:05 PM  
I'm not sure what this one guy is whining about.  So he wants more money because he's working harder, or will take a pay cut to work less hard?  I remember working a job like that, hated the down time, the day just drags.
 
2014-01-30 01:20:09 PM  

SphericalTime: What about a maximum wage? CEOs could only make 200x more than the lowest paid employee at a company. That mean that if your minimum wage is 30,000 dollars a year, your CEO is maxed out at 6 million. That would make the CEOs raise their starting salaries pretty quickly.


So if you have 100 employees at $30k or 10,000 employees at $30k you make the same pay?
 
2014-01-30 01:20:42 PM  

SlothB77: Economies don't work like that. Even at the current minimum wage figure, companies use illegals in a secondary black market to subvert those controls. That problem will only get worse if the minimum wage is raised.


Yeah... no.  Illegals are used in markets where no discernible difference in product is available.  Products like agricultural products and basic commodities.  Also, unskilled services such as house cleaning and basic construction (painting, drywalling, wire pulling).  "Illegals" get used in more skilled services (in landscaping particularly), but they generally are making over minimum and somewhat comparable to what naturalized citizens make.  They are used to skirt union labor though.

Where you have a product or service where people want to recognize and decide that you are better than the competition, you see significantly fewer illegal aliens.  Ironically, most of those products are made legally in foreign countries.  You must be advocating trade tariffs and pegging minimum wage to local costs of living.
 
2014-01-30 01:20:42 PM  

JK47: Further, insurance companies have no incentive to write policies that cover the sick (those with pre-existing conditions), the elderly (those who do or may develop such conditions), or those who present personal or financial risks (smokers, people who drink alcohol, the poor, etc). Without gov't intervention such populations would have to do without health insurance, and as a consequence, without true medical care.


That's not a bug.  That's a feature.
 
2014-01-30 01:21:11 PM  

MugzyBrown: JK47: 1)  The Government has been involved in the insurance industry since the 19th century (states) and 1944 (United States vs. SEUA) and codified in the McCarran Act.

Which led to



Which led to the Insurance Indusdry getting an anti-trust exemption that allows them to implement anti-competitive measures like price fixing and collusion.

Interestingly enough, when health reform negotiations were happening in 2009, the Democrats pitched the idea of repealing the McCarran-Ferguson Act and removing the insurance industry's anti-trust exemption, forcing them to play on a competitive market, the "defenders of the free market" GOP pitched a gale force hissy fit to nip it in the bud.

Which is why any GOPer who claims they're for "free market solutions" for curbing America's runaway health care costs can promptly be pointed and laughed at.
 
2014-01-30 01:21:21 PM  

SlothB77: gov got involved in health care and thought they could do it smarter than the private sector and it blew up in their face


The web servers were overloaded for a month, therefore the entire health insurance endeavor is a failure and should be scrapped. If only we had listened to those kind Republicans who knew this would happen. After all they were only looking out for the American people. Maybe you listen to too much partisan hate radio if that's your take.
 
2014-01-30 01:21:23 PM  
Both journalist and Costco employee deserve to be fire.d
 
2014-01-30 01:22:20 PM  

dpzum1:
Yea... and income tax in France is around 40% Sales tax, around 20%..Go on, have at it.

And people are on average happier. It seems to be working quite well.

MugzyBrown: JK47: 1)  The Government has been involved in the insurance industry since the 19th century (states) and 1944 (United States vs. SEUA) and codified in the McCarran Act.

Which led to

2)  The private sector, particularly the segment dealing with individual policyholders purchasing health plans, hasn't been able to provide an product with adequate coverage at a reasonable price as evinced by the fact that large segments of the population remained uninsured due to the fact that coverage was not affordable.  Further, insurance companies have no incentive to write policies that cover the sick (those with pre-existing conditions), the elderly (those who do or may develop such conditions), or those who present personal or financial risks (smokers, people who drink alcohol, the poor, etc).  Without gov't intervention such populations would have to do without health insurance, and as a consequence, without true medical care.

this is a cause again of #2


You're seriously arguing that it's the government's fault that private medical insurance sucks? lol... let me laugh louder.

Then why is it that virtually every other first world country in the world does health care better than the US, getting better outcomes for less money and covering more of their people, by having MORE government involvement in the system than we do?
 
2014-01-30 01:22:36 PM  
FTA:While the store pays $11.50, he complained that Costco works its employees too hard.
Sons of biatches, they want you to actually work? How unjust is that?
 
2014-01-30 01:23:01 PM  

MugzyBrown: Costco serves a mid-to upper middle class customer base

Sams serves a low to low middle class customer base

That's why.

The question is if the president is stupid or disingenuous.  Probably the latter.


Uh, wut?  Did you even read the article?
 
2014-01-30 01:23:07 PM  

InmanRoshi: Which led to the Insurance Indusdry getting an anti-trust exemption that allows them to implement anti-competitive measures like price fixing and collusion.

Interestingly enough, when health reform negotiations were happening in 2009, the Democrats pitched the idea of repealing the McCarran-Ferguson Act and removing the insurance industry's anti-trust exemption, forcing them to play on a competitive market, the "defenders of the free market" GOP pitched a gale force hissy fit to nip it in the bud.

Which is why any GOPer who claims they're for "free market solutions" for curbing America's runaway health care costs can promptly be pointed and laughed at.


Anti-trust laws do not make a free market by definition.
 
2014-01-30 01:23:17 PM  

patrick767: We do? Then they're not working.


oh yes they are.

/things were a lot worse before they got better
 
2014-01-30 01:24:30 PM  

MugzyBrown: Anti-trust laws do not make a free market by definition.


And this is why I can't worship the free-market as blindly as you guys do. When has a monopoly ever been a positive thing for the consumer?
 
2014-01-30 01:24:32 PM  

patrick767: ou're seriously arguing that it's the government's fault that private medical insurance sucks? lol... let me laugh louder.


It's government involvement that has made the whole medical industry a cluster fark.
 
2014-01-30 01:25:09 PM  

MugzyBrown: patrick767: ou're seriously arguing that it's the government's fault that private medical insurance sucks? lol... let me laugh louder.

It's government involvement that has made the whole medical industry a cluster fark.


"It's not free-markety enough!"
 
2014-01-30 01:25:13 PM  

MugzyBrown: dpzum1: Yea... and income tax in France is around 40% Sales tax, around 20%..Go on, have at it.

and 90% Debt to GDP


Yes, if there's one great indicator for a great country to live in, it's the Debt to GDP ratio.

Liberia, Cuba, North Korea, Algeria, Bulgaria, Kazakhstan ... all paradises with their insanely low debt to GDP ratios.
 
2014-01-30 01:25:48 PM  
To all who oppose the existence of a minimum wage, I would ask you to list all countries in the world without a minimum wage.  Then once you have that figured out, tell me how many of those lovely, advanced countries you would want to move to and work in.
 
2014-01-30 01:26:43 PM  
I've been shopping at the same Costco for over 10 years.  Some of the current checkers were there when I first started working there (not necessarily as a checker), and its rare to see more than one new face on my monthly visit.  So sounds like this dude either works at a shiatty Costco, or is just full of shiat.
 
2014-01-30 01:26:50 PM  

Mrtraveler01: And this is why I can't worship the free-market as blindly as you guys do. When has a monopoly ever been a positive thing for the consumer?


In almost every scenario, a monopoly is the result of government intervention.

Do you really think there could be an insurance monopoly?  Do you know how many insurance companies there are out there and how many more there would be if health insurance was able to actually underwrite their policies?
 
2014-01-30 01:26:55 PM  

patrick767: SphericalTime: What about a maximum wage? CEOs could only make 200x more than the lowest paid employee at a company. That mean that if your minimum wage is 30,000 dollars a year, your CEO is maxed out at 6 million. That would make the CEOs raise their starting salaries pretty quickly.

I'd say more like 50 to 1 would be appropriate. 40 years ago the average S&P 500 CEO wage was about 30x the company median wage. In 1950 it was 20x the median. Now it's over 350x the median.

Of course there are multiple ways the government could address income and wealth inequality. They don't necessarily have to put a hard cap on CEO pay. More tax brackets at the high end that include some much higher rates with fewer loopholes would help.


And treat all income as the same for tax purposes.
 
2014-01-30 01:27:05 PM  

MugzyBrown: InmanRoshi: Which led to the Insurance Indusdry getting an anti-trust exemption that allows them to implement anti-competitive measures like price fixing and collusion.

Interestingly enough, when health reform negotiations were happening in 2009, the Democrats pitched the idea of repealing the McCarran-Ferguson Act and removing the insurance industry's anti-trust exemption, forcing them to play on a competitive market, the "defenders of the free market" GOP pitched a gale force hissy fit to nip it in the bud.

Which is why any GOPer who claims they're for "free market solutions" for curbing America's runaway health care costs can promptly be pointed and laughed at.

Anti-trust laws do not make a free market by definition.


 Sooooooo ... illiterate, lazy or a combination of both?
 
2014-01-30 01:27:44 PM  
See? They're ungrateful. We pay them too much.
 
2014-01-30 01:28:04 PM  
Maybe there is something left out of the article:

If the store he works in is anything like the one I shop at, then he's probably getting almost no data reception on his iPhone.

Working an entire 8 hour shift and not being able to Facebook and Twitter every 5 minutes?  Can you even imagine such a thing?  For shame, Costco!  For shame!

He should quit and go to Walmart.  4g signal, and he'll fit right in with the rest of the staff.
 
2014-01-30 01:28:14 PM  

MugzyBrown: Mrtraveler01: And this is why I can't worship the free-market as blindly as you guys do. When has a monopoly ever been a positive thing for the consumer?

In almost every scenario, a monopoly is the result of government intervention.

 

Skipped 19th Century US History, I take it.
 
2014-01-30 01:28:38 PM  

MugzyBrown: patrick767: ou're seriously arguing that it's the government's fault that private medical insurance sucks? lol... let me laugh louder.

It's government involvement that has made the whole medical industry a cluster fark.


I miss the days insurance companies employed people who specifically searched for pre-existing conditions to deny coverage of life saving health care, directly leading to their death too.

Why doesn't anybody care about profits like we do?
 
2014-01-30 01:29:30 PM  

Mrtraveler01: "It's not free-markety enough!"


Explain what part of the health care industry was free market at all?

The US Healthcare industry is the worst of all worlds because it is a mutant hybrid of crony capitalism and government interventions
 
2014-01-30 01:30:04 PM  

MugzyBrown: In almost every scenario, a monopoly is the result of government intervention.


So government intervention allowed Standard Oil to have a monopoly, until that same government broke that monopoly up?
 
2014-01-30 01:30:22 PM  

Lando Lincoln: "Sure, we start out at $11.50 per hour, but they work us really hard! And there's high turnover!"

Apparently this guy hasn't worked in other places, like Kmart, where they have the same problems but they pay you less.


It's how most businesses works now, especially customer service.

Reduced hours per employee plus fewer employees, but they still expect you to do the same total amount of work. They get to keep the pay low because by intentionally hiring too few employees, national unemployment is high. What are you going to do, quit and get a new job? No one's hiring, for the same reason.
 
2014-01-30 01:30:26 PM  

MugzyBrown: In almost every scenario, a monopoly is the result of government intervention.


Oh hey, it's the part of the conversation where we get to just flat make things up.  Neat!
 
2014-01-30 01:31:07 PM  

InmanRoshi: Sooooooo ... illiterate, lazy or a combination of both?


I'm not sure which you are.  If you're removing an anti-trust exemption, then you're saying they're subject to anti-trust laws... which in in the opposite direction of making it more 'free'.
 
2014-01-30 01:31:49 PM  

MugzyBrown: In almost every scenario, a monopoly is the result of government intervention.


lolwut.

Son, try not to huff paint thinner prior to posting.
 
2014-01-30 01:33:09 PM  

MugzyBrown: Mrtraveler01: "It's not free-markety enough!"

Explain what part of the health care industry was free market at all?

The US Healthcare industry is the worst of all worlds because it is a mutant hybrid of crony capitalism and government interventions


You're right, we should just take the capitalism outta there- it's a drag on the system. Seems to work just fine for most other developed countries. We don't have to have worse average health outcomes than the rest of the first world just to line the pockets of a few insurance execs.
 
2014-01-30 01:33:33 PM  

SlothB77: OregonVet: That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.

I haven't commented on the story yet.

Yeah, that article was bad.  But the president is doing more to hurt his cause here.

First, he is showing that we don't need to raise the minimum wage to force companies to pay their workers more.  Here he shows CostCo willingly does pay their workers more without government intervention.  Kind of implodes the myth that big retailers don't care about their employees and will only pay them the bare minimum.  So it argues for not raising the minimum wage and let companies have the choice.

Second, Obama says $11.50 an hour still isn't enough.  Well, what is enough?  Where do you draw the line?  Is $12.50 enough?  Is $13.50 enough?  All of these numbers are very arbitrary.  Just like when this gov got involved in health care and thought they could do it smarter than the private sector and it blew up in their face, the same will happen here.  You can't just pick a number arbitrarily and expect everything to function smoothly.  Economies don't work like that.  Even at the current minimum wage figure, companies use illegals in a secondary black market to subvert those controls.  That problem will only get worse if the minimum wage is raised.


You're right. You're absolutely right. THAT was the dumbest thing I've read all day.

Mobile, so: +1 vote for Funny.
 
2014-01-30 01:33:48 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: MugzyBrown: In almost every scenario, a monopoly is the result of government intervention.

lolwut.

Son, try not to huff paint thinner prior to posting.


It's always amusing when you run into someone who's grasp of macro economics doesn't go deeper than "Bumper Sticker Slogan" depth level
 
2014-01-30 01:35:17 PM  

SlothB77: OregonVet: That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.

I haven't commented on the story yet.

Yeah, that article was bad.  But the president is doing more to hurt his cause here.

First, he is showing that we don't need to raise the minimum wage to force companies to pay their workers more.  Here he shows CostCo willingly does pay their workers more without government intervention.  Kind of implodes the myth that big retailers don't care about their employees and will only pay them the bare minimum.  So it argues for not raising the minimum wage and let companies have the choice.

Second, Obama says $11.50 an hour still isn't enough.  Well, what is enough?  Where do you draw the line?  Is $12.50 enough?  Is $13.50 enough?  All of these numbers are very arbitrary.  Just like when this gov got involved in health care and thought they could do it smarter than the private sector and it blew up in their face, the same will happen here.  You can't just pick a number arbitrarily and expect everything to function smoothly.  Economies don't work like that.  Even at the current minimum wage figure, companies use illegals in a secondary black market to subvert those controls.  That problem will only get worse if the minimum wage is raised.



Sounds like you'd complain if Obama cured cancer.
 
2014-01-30 01:36:01 PM  
High turnover at Costco?  I've been shopping at the same Costco for over 13 years and I've seen the same employees there the whole time.  That's amazing to me.  There are new ones and some do go but a surprising large number of them are still there.  Enough so some even know who I am.
 
2014-01-30 01:36:57 PM  
The GOP talking point is true; some people are happy to be the poors.
 
2014-01-30 01:37:15 PM  

Mrtraveler01: So government intervention allowed Standard Oil to have a monopoly, until that same government broke that monopoly up?


Standard Oil had about 150 competitors at the time of their Supreme Court case and their 'Monopoly' killed the consumer by lower the cost of refined oil from about 40 cents in the 1860's to about 6 cents in 1897.
 
2014-01-30 01:37:50 PM  

MugzyBrown: Mrtraveler01: "It's not free-markety enough!"

Explain what part of the health care industry was free market at all?

The US Healthcare industry is the worst of all worlds because it is a mutant hybrid of crony capitalism and government interventions


Your thesis is that since with the current amount of regulation, insurance companies do their damnedest not to pay out claims and to provide care for people, if we would only get rid of government's interference, the insurance companies will magically start caring about patients more than profits?  Is there a unicorn variable I'm missing in here somewhere because this equation isn't adding up.
 
2014-01-30 01:38:07 PM  

Lando Lincoln: MugzyBrown: Costco serves a mid-to upper middle class customer base

Sams serves a low to low middle class customer base

That's why.

Please elaborate. Are Sam's Club's wares geared towards lower class people?


A 2-gallon tub of mayo is pretty much the same no matter who buys it.
 
2014-01-30 01:38:10 PM  

Ant: Headso: cato113: OregonVet: That has to be the dumbest thing I read today.

You didn't read the comments

fark is like the Algonquin Round Table compared to that.

The average Fark post is like a doctoral thesis compared to the posts on most comment sections on the internet.


So, slighly crazed and only half-finished?
 
2014-01-30 01:38:23 PM  

SlothB77: First, he is showing that we don't need to raise the minimum wage to force companies to pay their workers more.  Here he shows CostCo willingly does pay their workers more without government intervention.


This might be valid if every store charged an annual fee in order to shop there.

Second, Obama says $11.50 an hour still isn't enough.  Well, what is enough?  Where do you draw the line?  Is $12.50 enough?  Is $13.50 enough?

This might be valid if it were true, rather than the $10.10 he proposed.  Basically, you're a liar.
 
2014-01-30 01:39:49 PM  

coeyagi: Funkyourdaughter: I'm salaried, but I usually put in close to 55-60 hours a week.  I don't get overtime.  Be happy you have a job and get back to work.

I am sure you work that salaried position for $11.50.  Maybe $12.  No?  Oh, then maybe you should eat your f*cking apple and stick that orange up your ass.


I did.  And this wasn't some "back in 1992" deal, this was the starting pay at a job I started at 5 years ago.  $24,500 starting.  No OT and I put in at least 50 a week.  More when I became a supervisor 6 months into starting without a raise.
 
2014-01-30 01:42:18 PM  
Or maybe that ONE employee is a whiny little shiat that thinks working hard at all is
Equivalent to being "overworked" and doesn't appreciate the fact that he works for a pretty good retail employer. Perhaps he should give working at wal mart a try.
 
2014-01-30 01:43:54 PM  

Mrtraveler01: KTAR is the right-wing derpy talk station in Phoenix. Based on what I've read on this forum, the article in questions is just as derpy as I anticipated.


KTAR is RINO compared to the derpnado which is KFYI.
 
2014-01-30 01:44:45 PM  

KidneyStone: Lando Lincoln: "Sure, we start out at $11.50 per hour, but they work us really hard! And there's high turnover!"

Apparently this guy hasn't worked in other places, like Kmart, where they have the same problems but they pay you less.

I want to know what "working us really hard" means to a Costco employee.  When I was younger I literally dug ditches, ran outside plumbing, and dug/prepped commercial fish ponds (Mike Rowe should visit one of THOSE).  All of that year round in Central Florida.  Moving 9 cubic yards of egg rock with a shovel and a wheelbarrow also comes to mind.  And I made bare-ass minimum wage.

And I have no regrets about any of it - learning those skills allowed me to replace all of the crappy polybutylene plumbing in my house all by myself.  Saved about $2,000 over having it done by a contractor.

/I have the scars to prove it all


Chucking bales of hay in the July sun for (big money in 1980) $4 per hour.
It made two-a-day football practices in August seem like a holiday.


/still had the burger-flipping gig in the evenings
 
2014-01-30 01:45:57 PM  

patrick767: Then why is it that virtually every other first world country in the world does health care better than the US, getting better outcomes for less money and covering more of their people, by having MORE government involvement in the system than we do?


Compare Cuban and American health care. Cuba spends a smaller % of its dinky GDP on health care than we do. And Cubans live longer.

The right wing in this country is insane. Or criminal. Or both.
 
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