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(Sports Mole (UK))   Adam Vinatieri: "well, Commissioner Goodell, if you want to talk about improving the NFL product re kicking, how about making field goals over 50yds worth FOUR points?"   (sportsmole.co.uk) divider line 89
    More: Interesting, Adam Vinatieri, Roger Goodell, NFL  
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1231 clicks; posted to Sports » on 29 Jan 2014 at 8:51 PM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-29 11:24:13 PM

JohnBigBootay: balki1867: Anderson's Pooper: Yeah, that won't possibly end up badly.

OK boys, we're down by 4 with three seconds left in the game.  We're too far to have a decent chance at a TD and too close for a 4 point FG.  Who wants to kick Richard Sherman in the nuts to get us moved back 15 yards?

I think what'd be funnier is a scenario where the offense starts running backwards to get in 4pt range and the D is chasing them and trying to stop them before they get to the 33 yard line.

fark. You just sold me on the whole idea. I thought it was stupid but that would be awesome!


I think you'd have teams just holding up their previous play at the 4-point line, going alongside the order of 'if you can't score a touchdown, don't catch it'. As for getting a penalty to get moved back, I'd think there'd end up being a 10-second runoff tacked on.
 
2014-01-29 11:26:25 PM

dletter: On top of those two, you could actually get rid of "field goals" as a place kick, and award 3 points for any punt that goes through the uprights, so, basically, all punts are "returnable FG Attempts". They could then drop the kicker from the roster, and gain an extra roster spot for a position player.


Kickers generally can't punt and punters generally can't kick. Two different skill sets.
 
2014-01-29 11:30:56 PM

p the boiler: How about no kicking at all. No punts and no kick offs either. One team starts at the 20 and goes until they don't complete a 4th down or they get in the end zone. Basically back yard football.


Thanks Greg Schiano.
 
2014-01-29 11:47:19 PM

Gosling: dletter: On top of those two, you could actually get rid of "field goals" as a place kick, and award 3 points for any punt that goes through the uprights, so, basically, all punts are "returnable FG Attempts". They could then drop the kicker from the roster, and gain an extra roster spot for a position player.

Kickers generally can't punt and punters generally can't kick. Two different skill sets.


I'm not saying that the punters are kicking placekick FGs.... the punters are still punting, but, they might get called in to punt from the 15, essentially to get 3 points.   If a punter can put the punt through the uprights from the opponents 40, then, 3 points there as well.... the longest punt on the fly in a game has been 75 yards I think I saw, so, considering to make the crossbar would be a little shorter, probably 70 yards, that would be a kicker kicking from the opponents 40, which would be the ball on the 50.... certainly a bit longer than now to make a 3 pt kick, but, not that much longer.
 
2014-01-30 12:05:07 AM
What about giving two points for a long PAT and one for where it is now?
 
2014-01-30 12:25:33 AM

Ryker's Peninsula: If you want to improve the NFL, get rid of Roger Goodell.


Thread over, we have a winner.
 
2014-01-30 12:37:09 AM

IlGreven: Gosling: Here. There's even a graph.

[www.decisionsciencenews.com image 480x360]

Pick out about the amount of the time you'd like to see a PAT miss. Anything closer than the 10, it's a total gimme unless the snap is bad. Accuracy starts to become a factor around the 10, 15 yard line.

That's why I also advocate short field goals to be worth 2 points instead of 3. From outside the 40, we should be encouraging FG tries instead of punts. From inside the 10, we should be encouraging going for it instead of the FG.


Really crazy idea - Make it 1 point per 10 yards.  Then within the 20, there's more incentive to go for it on 4th down.  If you're outside the 50,  you've got the chance at extra points.
 
2014-01-30 01:29:34 AM

JohnBigBootay: balki1867: Anderson's Pooper: Yeah, that won't possibly end up badly.

OK boys, we're down by 4 with three seconds left in the game.  We're too far to have a decent chance at a TD and too close for a 4 point FG.  Who wants to kick Richard Sherman in the nuts to get us moved back 15 yards?

I think what'd be funnier is a scenario where the offense starts running backwards to get in 4pt range and the D is chasing them and trying to stop them before they get to the 33 yard line.

fark. You just sold me on the whole idea. I thought it was stupid but that would be awesome!


BRILLIANT
 
2014-01-30 01:32:59 AM
I'm sick of everyone trying to change the NFL. It's perfect the way it is.
 
2014-01-30 01:39:04 AM

dletter: I'm not saying that the punters are kicking placekick FGs.... the punters are still punting, but, they might get called in to punt from the 15, essentially to get 3 points. If a punter can put the punt through the uprights from the opponents 40, then, 3 points there as well.... the longest punt on the fly in a game has been 75 yards I think I saw, so, considering to make the crossbar would be a little shorter, probably 70 yards, that would be a kicker kicking from the opponents 40, which would be the ball on the 50.... certainly a bit longer than now to make a 3 pt kick, but, not that much longer.


Thing is, though, placekicks go longer than punts.
 
2014-01-30 06:19:09 AM

antidisestablishmentarianism: RedPhoenix122: improve the NFL.

Does the NFL really need improving?


There are still quite a few injuries in the game, although I'm not sure anyone is ready for two major changes that would significantly reduce injuries: eliminating kickoffs and the 3 and 4 point stance.

Although maybe they'd be a good idea at the youth levels.
 
2014-01-30 06:20:24 AM

TuteTibiImperes: FreakinB: Why reward teams for not advancing far enough to give themselves an easier field goal?

I see it more as giving a bonus for teams that take a big risk with a long FG.  Right now a 50+ yarder is in no-man's land, too close for a punt to be worthwhile, too far for a FG to be expected to work, so it's four down territory.  With the rule change it would add a new bit of strategy, do you attempt a low-percentage 4th down conversion to see if you can score a TD, or take a low-percentage FG attempt?  I


Fourth down conversions are way more exciting than long field goals.
 
2014-01-30 07:19:11 AM

bass555: How about a free point if you split the uprights on a kickoff?


Make this worth 4pts.. it punishes taking dead ball penalties after touchdowns more than just getting the ball on the 20 aanyway
 
2014-01-30 07:35:05 AM

Gosling: You want the PAT to mean more, it's very simple.

Move the PAT attempt back enough yards to where kickers start missing it every so often. Done. 2-point conversion can still be from the 2, the PAT gets moved back to, like, the 10.


This is what I was thinking.  Move it back to the 10 or 15 and then let them kick.  Still fairly automatic....but not as much as on the 2
 
2014-01-30 07:36:57 AM
50 yard field goals with 4 points? Denver fans scream "YES PLEASE!"

See you at every single Super Bowl for the next few years at least.
 
2014-01-30 07:55:14 AM

Sir VG: 50 yard field goals with 4 points? Denver fans scream "YES PLEASE!"

See you at every single Super Bowl for the next few years at least.


Why? Don't their opponents get to kick on the same field they do?
 
2014-01-30 08:28:50 AM

Gosling: You want the PAT to mean more, it's very simple.

Move the PAT attempt back enough yards to where kickers start missing it every so often. Done. 2-point conversion can still be from the 2, the PAT gets moved back to, like, the 10.


Why stop there? Move the PAT to an inverse of where the scoring play started, starting from the 50 - a goal-line TD should mean a 50-yard PAT, a dagron TD should result in a goal-line chip shot.
 
2014-01-30 08:37:23 AM
1. Make all FG's worth 4 points.
2. Put one defender under the goal posts with a shotgun
3. If said defender can prevent an obvious FG with the shotgun, defending team gets 2 pts (safety)

I'd watch that.
 
2014-01-30 08:43:00 AM

dletter: As I've said, between these rules changes that have been floated, the "kicker" is only going to be used for FG's:

* Replace kickoffs with 4th and 15 at the 30 yard line
* Get rid of the extra point

On top of those two, you could actually get rid of "field goals" as a place kick, and award 3 points for any punt that goes through the uprights, so, basically, all punts are "returnable FG Attempts".  They could then drop the kicker from the roster, and gain an extra roster spot for a position player.

The NFL seems to think punts are safer return wise, and then getting rid of the rest of those things the kicker does, you gain "jobs" for non-kickers (32 extra roster spots).



How about we keep the kicker AND add the roster spot(s)? There's enough football players in this world to fill the spots. Plus, it could help with injuries, being able to spread the playing time around and all...

Was thinking, too, maybe the NFL could develop some kind of "designated tackler" or something for kickers like MLB has for pitchers and DH's. Make it so in the AFC every kicker or punter has to run off the field after they kick, while someone else stays in to make a tackle. In the Nfarkickers and punters will stay on the field, as usual. Might seem like an advantage to the AFC on ST's, but the NFC would be able to use the designated tackler roster spot on whatever position they want.

Honestly, nothing needs to change, but I understand at least looking at different possibilities. Don't really think the points system needs to be messed with right now, though. Not until offenses get too much of an advantage over the defense. But an addition to the roster, or a slight narrowing of the goal posts, something relatively simple (especially for the fans to understand) is fine with me.
 
2014-01-30 08:47:56 AM

Nana's Vibrator: Anderson's Pooper: Yeah, that won't possibly end up badly.

OK boys, we're down by 4 with three seconds left in the game.  We're too far to have a decent chance at a TD and too close for a 4 point FG.  Who wants to kick Richard Sherman in the nuts to get us moved back 15 yards?

ten second runoff.  you lose.  but it feels like you won because you kicked Sherman in the nuts.


You could go for three false starts...

...but the other coach would see through you and decline the penalties.
 
2014-01-30 08:59:35 AM
Why not keep things the way they are? They are totally fine as is.
 
2014-01-30 09:04:27 AM

balki1867: This seems to have some documentation of long misses in recent NFL history:  http://quirkyresearch.blogspot.com/2008/09/longest-missed-field-goals - 1994-2008.html

Although the longest miss on that is still "only" 76 yards,  There are 6 data points on the graph of 60+ (or a 77+ field goal), so something is still off.


I remember Crosby's 69 yard attempt. It was short by a yard or so only.

Would a fair catch kick get an asterisk in the record book?
 
2014-01-30 09:15:28 AM

FreakinB: Why reward teams for not advancing far enough to give themselves an easier field goal?


Over in 1.

Also, ditto.
 
2014-01-30 09:22:15 AM
I actually had the exact opposite idea.  Kickers have gotten ridiculous to the point where 40-50 yard field goals are approaching routine and 50+ isn't a desperation play.  I propose moving extra points back to the 30 and narrowing the uprights by a good 10 feet or so.  Make those farkers actually kick.

Also widen the hashes and bring back the wide side of the field (asymmetric hashes).  Also get off my lawn.
 
2014-01-30 09:45:08 AM
In rugby, the player that scores the try (equivalent of a touchdown) has to do the extra points kick.  I think that'd make the game quite a bit more interesting.

larrybrownsports.com
 
2014-01-30 09:59:12 AM
i'm ok with this as long as the opposing team is not allowed to return it if it falls short- nick saban
 
2014-01-30 10:09:50 AM

Huge Blue Anthropomorphic Jug: Was thinking, too, maybe the NFL could develop some kind of "designated tackler" or something for kickers like MLB has for pitchers and DH's. Make it so in the AFC every kicker or punter has to run off the field after they kick, while someone else stays in to make a tackle. In the Nfarkickers and punters will stay on the field, as usual. Might seem like an advantage to the AFC on ST's, but the NFC would be able to use the designated tackler roster spot on whatever position they want.


Well that's a new filter pwn...
 
2014-01-30 10:19:57 AM

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: p the boiler: How about no kicking at all. No punts and no kick offs either. One team starts at the 20 and goes until they don't complete a 4th down or they get in the end zone. Basically back yard football.

I'd be fine with this, except you can't call it "football" any more.


The term "football" originated as differentiating sports from equine games.  It wasnt about the ball and the foot connecting, it was about playing the game "on foot."
 
2014-01-30 10:39:23 AM

fonebone77: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: p the boiler: How about no kicking at all. No punts and no kick offs either. One team starts at the 20 and goes until they don't complete a 4th down or they get in the end zone. Basically back yard football.

I'd be fine with this, except you can't call it "football" any more.

The term "football" originated as differentiating sports from equine games.  It wasnt about the ball and the foot connecting, it was about playing the game "on foot."


I did not know that. Thanks!
 
2014-01-30 10:50:07 AM

dywed88: Four Fair Catch Kicks of 60+ years in the relevant time period makes up most of the points



the last one i recall was Cards vs Rams around 2009 or so.  the game was stopped for about 4-5 minutes, because the refs had to explain to the Rams coaches what Arizona was doing.  you could tell the Rams coach (linehan, as i recal) didn't know what was going on.

it was anticlimactic to say the least when Neil Rackers attempted what would have been a 65yd attempt (?) to tie, and he muffed it.  the ball got maybe 6' off the ground and fluttered about 35 yds.  and if i recall, the defense wasn't permited to line up (?)  it resembled a kickoff, with the holder holding the ball, rackers back to kick, and the other 9 Cardinals standing there.
 
2014-01-30 10:57:03 AM

rickythepenguin: the last one i recall was Cards vs Rams around 2009 or so.




Neil Rackers vs. New York Giants, date unknown, but apparently was a squib kick per comments. I don't remember this one at all.

this is what i was thinking of...

"But Rackers never got the chance to attempt the 77-yard field goal. Arizona safety Robert Griffith was ruled offside on the punt, the Rams accepted the penalty and quarterback Marc Bulger took a knee on the next play to end the game."

this was what i was thinking of.....we fair caught the ball, and when we invoked the rule, the refs had to explain to the rams coaches what we were doing, hence the stoppage. but it was still bullshiat because the Rams declined the penalty, we lined up for the fair catch kick, the Rams coaches were like, HURF HURF HURF, DERRRRRRR, WHAT ARE THEY DOING, IS THAT EVEN LEGAL, HURRRRRRRRR? and after the realized we had a chance to kick -- admittedly, 77 YARD FIELD GOAL -- they were permitted to essentailly get a do-over and accept the penalty, and redo 4th down. that was bullshiat. if the rams don't know the rule, fark them.
 
2014-01-30 11:29:09 AM
Don't mess with the points. Narrow the uprights or use the same hash marks as college.
 
2014-01-30 11:32:53 AM
Here's an idea, we get a bunch of relatively hot, in-shape women.  We dress them up in a uniform that closely resembles lingerie.  We let them play a game of tackle football using rules that resemble the Arena Football Leagues?

How about it, think it would work?
 
2014-01-30 11:48:22 AM

rickythepenguin: dywed88: Four Fair Catch Kicks of 60+ years in the relevant time period makes up most of the points


the last one i recall was Cards vs Rams around 2009 or so.  the game was stopped for about 4-5 minutes, because the refs had to explain to the Rams coaches what Arizona was doing.  you could tell the Rams coach (linehan, as i recal) didn't know what was going on.

it was anticlimactic to say the least when Neil Rackers attempted what would have been a 65yd attempt (?) to tie, and he muffed it.  the ball got maybe 6' off the ground and fluttered about 35 yds.  and if i recall, the defense wasn't permited to line up (?)  it resembled a kickoff, with the holder holding the ball, rackers back to kick, and the other 9 Cardinals standing there.


San Francisco tried a 71 yarder this year.

Video:  http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000251221/Dawson - fair-catch-kick-attempt

Went wide left by like 10 yards and came up a bit short.
 
2014-01-30 01:51:30 PM

lennavan: In rugby, the player that scores the try (equivalent of a touchdown) has to do the extra points kick.  I think that'd make the game quite a bit more interesting.

[larrybrownsports.com image 172x146]


That's not right. Extra point (worth 2 points in rugby) can be kicked by anyone on the team that was on the field at the time the try was scored. Usually it's the fly-half although the fullback kicks as well. Those are the two positions that do a lot of kicking in the regular play as well.

www.lineoutcoach.com

I've played on teams where the hooker or Number 8 players were decent kickers and if the game was out of reach, they'd get their chance at kicking, especially if they scored the try.
 
2014-01-30 05:23:44 PM

machoprogrammer: balki1867: This seems to have some documentation of long misses in recent NFL history:  http://quirkyresearch.blogspot.com/2008/09/longest-missed-field-goals - 1994-2008.html

Although the longest miss on that is still "only" 76 yards,  There are 6 data points on the graph of 60+ (or a 77+ field goal), so something is still off.

I remember Crosby's 69 yard attempt. It was short by a yard or so only.

Would a fair catch kick get an asterisk in the record book?


I don't think the NFL differentiates them, so officially no. But I would not be surprised if the NFL established a new category.

The lack of a snap and defenders means that you should more reliably hit a free kick from any given distance than a regular field goal.
 
2014-01-30 11:45:46 PM

TuteTibiImperes: FrostyBarleyPop: I like the way rugby does it - you kick the ball from the point on the field that crossed the goal line. As far back as you like. Crossing the goal in the center nets you an easy chip shot from close range. Catching a pass in the back corner of the end zone means you're looking at a long kick from a wide angle.

They could adopt a version of the Canadian football 'rouge' where any time the ball is in play any offensive player can drop kick the ball through the goalposts for an automatic point.


The rouge is not what you describe.  A single point or 'rouge' is scored when a team kicks the ball (either a punt, a field goal, a kickoff or even a player just kicking the ball ahead at any time during play) such that the ball goes completely through the endzone and cannot be returned or such that the kick receiver is tackled before escaping the end zone.  The Rouge leads to last-second plays like the following....    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug9X6o18EoI

A drop kick (ball hits the ground before kicking as opposed to a punt) through the uprights is a good field goal for 3pts at any time during play in the CFL - not sure if this is in effect in the NFL...  Didn't Doug Flutie do this with the Bills?

Arrrrrrgoooooos!
 
2014-01-31 01:26:01 AM

cnocnanrionnag: The rouge is not what you describe.  A single point or 'rouge' is scored when a team kicks the ball (either a punt, a field goal, a kickoff or even a player just kicking the ball ahead at any time during play) such that the ball goes completely through the endzone and cannot be returned or such that the kick receiver is tackled before escaping the end zone.  The Rouge leads to last-second plays like the following....


Actually, if a kickoff goes through the endzone without being touched there is no single.

And a single is also scored in fumble recoveries or interceptions when the defenders cannot get it out of the endzone. Basically whenever the NFL would have a touchback, except kickoffs that go through the end zone, and missed fieldgoals not returned out of the endzone.
 
2014-01-31 08:54:36 AM

cnocnanrionnag: A drop kick (ball hits the ground before kicking as opposed to a punt) through the uprights is a good field goal for 3pts at any time during play in the CFL - not sure if this is in effect in the NFL... Didn't Doug Flutie do this with the Bills?


Patriots.
 
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