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(RealClear)   Now *this* is how you troll: Edward Snowden nominated for Nobel Peace Prize   (realclear.com) divider line 118
    More: Hero, Nobel Peace Prize, trolls, Politics of Norway  
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8397 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jan 2014 at 4:32 PM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-01-29 02:53:53 PM
12 votes:
He deserves it just as much as Obama did.
2014-01-29 04:04:32 PM
11 votes:

ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.


Moreso, actually:  Obama got his for, well, no one really knows, because he hadn't actually done much at that point except win an election.

You could argue that Snowden, by exposing the pervasive surveillance capabilities of the NSA, made us all a little bit more free, if only because we *KNOW* we're being surveilled now.
2014-01-29 04:34:48 PM
9 votes:
How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.
2014-01-29 04:15:41 PM
9 votes:
As much as I dislike snowden's personality and motives for doing what he did as less than altruistic, they're right. Exposing wide-spread abuse of the NSA's telecom monitoring network and the US Government flagrantly violation it's citizens constitutional rights is a big deal, might be worthy of the prize.

However, as people have mentioned, a nomination does not mean he'll win it, and it's not really notable.
2014-01-29 04:47:24 PM
8 votes:

OrangeFree: Making all nations hyper suspicious of one another is "a fundamental requirement for peace?"

Honestly, has this planet gone completely nutty bananas?



That's like saying Erin Brockovich was at fault for stirring people up by publicizing PG&E's toxic chemical releases.

Shooting the messenger is rarely the right response.
2014-01-29 04:42:26 PM
8 votes:

Rent Party: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

They have both done the exact same thing.  Not being George Bush.


Snowden was better at it than Obama was.
2014-01-29 04:57:01 PM
5 votes:

whidbey: tylerdurden217: I really have no issues with President Obama, I even voted for him both times. But I really did not understand why he won that award. It made no sense then and it makes even less sense now.

It totally made sense. It was the world's way of thanking the US for not electing another stupid warmonger like Bush. Yes, I know we're still stuck cleaning up his legacy in Afghanistaq. But in the last 5 years, Obama has also somehow managed to deflect the hardliners' war hardon to attack Iran and North Korea, so that is actually saying something. Romney, had he been elected, would have been pushing for both.


He wanted to go in to Syria and only didnt when the entire country basically said NO. So keep f-ing that chicken. He has killed more innocents by drone than Bush, he has waged war on journalists and whistleblowers never before seen by US presidents. He has presided over ALL of the NSA BS that we keep learning about. And he continues to go on TV and tell everyone it is all legal and above board only to have his own appointed review board turn around and say he is full of crap.

Obama is worse than Bush for the simple reason that under his administration all the things that democrats railed against under a republican administration have become normalized and accepted operating procedure under Obama.

He also assassinated American citizens including a 16 year old boy without due process afforded to them by the constitution. Funny how that fact gets glossed over by the "cult"
2014-01-29 04:40:32 PM
5 votes:

whidbey: How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.


Agreed. He is an American Hero.

You know Pete Seeger was once reviled by Americans because as usual, most of the country had it head up it's collective ass.

thought their illegal war in 'Nam was for the greater good or some such shiat.

Bunch of numbnutted assholes and that is the same as ever.

This man pointed to an out of control government that was and still is stripping us of our civil rights, and even human rights and needs to be called out on it and stopped.
2014-01-29 04:38:59 PM
5 votes:

wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.


I really have no issues with President Obama, I even voted for him both times. But I really did not understand why he won that award. It made no sense then and it makes even less sense now.

I hope Snowden really does win the Nobel Peace Prize. I'm not saying that what he did was right or wrong. I'm not even suggesting that he would be the most deserving of the prize, but it would at least keep the conversation going regarding privacy.
wee [TotalFark]
2014-01-29 04:23:29 PM
5 votes:

ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.


More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.
2014-01-29 02:44:33 PM
5 votes:
Being nominated for a Nobel Prize is not a notable thing, rarely is an actual thing, and is in no sense a newsworthy item. Reporters should farking know that by now.
2014-01-29 06:38:21 PM
3 votes:

iron de havilland: kindms: whidbey: tylerdurden217: I really have no issues with President Obama, I even voted for him both times. But I really did not understand why he won that award. It made no sense then and it makes even less sense now.

It totally made sense. It was the world's way of thanking the US for not electing another stupid warmonger like Bush.

Was Bush a warmonger? He came across as the mildly retarded frontman for a cabal of warmongers.

You know, little things like having difficulty speaking in public and generally making a tit of himself, while god knows who actually planned the wars.

Yes, I know we're still stuck cleaning up his legacy in Afghanistaq. But in the last 5 years, Obama has also somehow managed to deflect the hardliners' war hardon to attack Iran and North Korea, so that is actually saying something. Romney, had he been elected, would have been pushing for both.

He wanted to go in to Syria and only didnt when the entire country basically said NO. So keep f-ing that chicken. He has killed more innocents by drone than Bush,

How many Americans have been killed in the wars started in Bush's reign?

How many non-American civilians have been killed in the same conflicts?

he has waged war on journalists and whistleblowers never before seen by US presidents.

Nixon doctrine.

And do you think a different president would have handled Assange and Snowden differently?

He has presided over ALL of the NSA BS that we keep learning about.

Bush didn't?

And he continues to go on TV and tell everyone it is all legal and above board only to have his own appointed review board turn around and say he is full of crap.

Obama is worse than Bush for the simple reason that under his administration all the things that democrats railed against under a republican administration have become normalized and accepted operating procedure under Obama.

Both sides are bad, so Bush is better?

Makes you sound kind of racist, dude.

He also assassinated American citizens including a 16 year old boy without due process afforded to them by the constitution. Funny how that fact gets glossed over by the "cult"

Yeah... your post leaves me thinking that if anyone's a member of a "cult"... it's you.


Hilarious that you immediately jumped to think I am saying bush is good.

Let's get something straight right off the bat. I'm a liberal lefty mclefterson. But to say there is not a cult of democrats that do whatever it takes to bend over backwards to excuse anything their guy does is laughable. I voted for the f-ing guy but he has been as bad or worse on civil liberties, and foreign policy as the guy he replaced. What makes it even worse is he campaigned on putting a stop to this very thing.

And I unlike May democrats will hold him to the same standard as Bush when it comes to law breaking and killing people. He doesn't get a pass from me just because he has a D next to his name
2014-01-29 05:52:31 PM
3 votes:

whidbey: Lsherm: whidbey: How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.

He farking took the job on purpose to collect evidence.  That's not "risking your career" that's "achieving your goal."

Boo-farking-hoo if he didn't think it out.

He still took a huge risk doing what he did.

Jesus, does the Police State give you that big of a hardon or what, dude?


No, I can't even say I appreciate what the NSA is doing.  But I also don't appreciate blanket disclosure of state secrets without any concern for the damage it may cause, which is precisely the business Wikileaks is in.  Snowden strikes me as either ridiculously idealistic, profoundly ignorant, or maybe a mixture of both, about what he actually stole.  He stole particulars but not enough to see them in a whole context.

I had a few security clearances in my early career (absolutely nothing NSA level), and one of the instructions they either told me or I picked up on, I can't remember, was that something that seems like worthless information to you becomes infinitely more valuable when paired with information that seems like worthless information to someone else.  So one guy saying "hey, I built a hypersensitive infrared camera" doesn't sound like much until you find the guy that says "I just learned how to put this new camera in a missile guidance system."

He's only a victim of his own stupidity and megalomania - he planned this without any forethought to the damage he would cause to others, nor, it seems, what damage he would do to himself.  He exploited a hole in our national security apparatus, and for that he's to be thanked and then thrown in jail for 20 years.  Or he can live in Russia - more power to him.  He farked up, and he seems unwilling to accept that.
2014-01-29 05:15:39 PM
3 votes:

SirEattonHogg: m00:

I hope he wins.

I would love to see the politicians trying to condemn china for jailing its nobel price winners, but justify (trying to) jail snowden.


So, you can't discern the difference between a private citizen who writes political articles critical of a government but neither works for the government nor has access to any sensitive information versus a person who signed a confidentiality agreement with his employer (a government), had access to a lot of state secrets and then fled to various foreign countries revealing sensitive state secrets along the way.

Okay, that makes sense.



He broke the law, certainly, but legal/illegal is not the same thing as right/wrong.  If the early Americans thought that way, there would be no United States (since the colonies were the rightful property of Great Britain).  We exist as a nation because of treason.
2014-01-29 05:15:25 PM
3 votes:
whidbey
Obama has also somehow managed to deflect the hardliners' war hardon to attack Iran and North Korea

Let me guess- his push to bomb Syria was 5th-dimensional-chess, because he knew that it would fail so hard as to nail down the coffin on any further large military engagements in the Middle East, right?


Khellendros
I'm not seeing the Snowden angle for this.

Knowing exactly how one of the most miltaristic and by far most powerful governments on Earth is manipulating the world in order to solidify power for its elite ruling class has made the planet objectively safer. Think of all the activists and dissidents in corrupt third-world hellholes like India, Ethiopia, and Louisiana who have or are drastically altered their online security and communication because of him.
m00
2014-01-29 05:04:14 PM
3 votes:
I hope he wins.

I would love to see the politicians trying to condemn china for jailing its nobel price winners, but justify (trying to) jail snowden.
2014-01-29 05:04:03 PM
3 votes:

Nemo's Brother: Probably the dumbest post on Fark today. Good jerb.


How is that dumb?  It's obvious to anyone who can walk and breathe at the same that while it was awarded to him, it wasn't about what he did, it was about what he represented in the U.S. - a turn away from warmongering and choosing to end two wars and institute foreign policy that wasn't about aggression and antagonism.
2014-01-29 04:51:24 PM
3 votes:

TheWhoppah: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States... to recognize our collective ability to see the fear mongering GOP asswipes for who they really were and reject their "bomb bomb Iran" preemptive-war policies. We elected, as our president, a man named Barack Hussein Obama just a few years after falling hook-line-and-sinker for the GOP/FoxNews lie machine regarding another man named Hussein. I'm sure it took brass balls for Obama to even consider running for president but this award was for the everyday Americans that stood in line to vote for him farking ridiculous.


FTFY
2014-01-29 04:51:23 PM
3 votes:

dittybopper: Obama got his for, well, no one really knows


I figured it was for keeping Sarah Palin out of the White House.  Jesus, can you imagine?
2014-01-29 04:49:58 PM
3 votes:

wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.


Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States... to recognize our collective ability to see the fear mongering GOP asswipes for who they really were and reject their "bomb bomb Iran" preemptive-war policies.  We elected, as our president, a man named  Barack Hussein Obama just a few years after falling hook-line-and-sinker for the GOP/FoxNews lie machine regarding another man named Hussein.  I'm sure it took brass balls for Obama to even consider running for president but this award was for the everyday Americans that stood in line to vote for him.
2014-01-29 04:48:47 PM
3 votes:

brantgoose: Lookit tha funny man, Momma, his head assploded!

Come away, dear. That man's just a conservative. The cognitive dissonance of supporting law and order politics while hating and distrusting the government police state just became too much for his skull. When he tried to believe that the cops are never wrong and that the cops think of him as a terrorist at the same time, his brain just self-destructed in self-defence.


Conservative here, and I am a supporter of Snowden. Whether he wins the Nobel or not you have to admire a person who is willing to put his life, and maybe even the lives of his family and friends, to bring what he considers a violation of peoples rights into the light.
2014-01-29 04:41:20 PM
3 votes:
Making all nations hyper suspicious of one another is "a fundamental requirement for peace?"

Honestly, has this planet gone completely nutty bananas?
2014-01-29 08:17:16 PM
2 votes:

whidbey: Snowden blew the whistle on a government he knew was overstepping its bounds.


You blow the whistle after finding a wrongdoing, attempting to fix it, and then going public when your complaints fall on deaf ears.  You don't set out to find wrongdoing, skip step two, and then claim victimhood at step three and get to call yourself a whistleblower, nor a "victim" for that matter.

I'm sorry if you find that patronizing, but when a child tells throws a tantrum when she gets punished for good reason, that's what happens.
2014-01-29 06:55:45 PM
2 votes:
Alot fo people simply cheer against the United States.  To them, Snowden is a hero because he harmed the U.S.  Some of these people even live in the U.S.  However, under United States law, Snowden is a criminal.  Snowden knew he was breaking the law when he did it.  What separates him from other famous people who claimed political dissident status is that he fled the country and continued to break U.S. law by revealing secrets while being shielded by traditional enemies of the U.S.  That kind of makes him either a coward or a traitor.  He isn't in the same league as other great dissidents.
2014-01-29 06:40:08 PM
2 votes:
I can agree with a nomination to recognize his efforts, and further the discussion. But only a nomination. Someone like Malala Yousafzai actually deserves to win the prize.
2014-01-29 06:05:33 PM
2 votes:

Finger51: whidbey: m00: I hope he wins.

I would love to see the politicians trying to condemn china for jailing its nobel price winners, but justify (trying to) jail snowden.

I love how just because Snowden blew the whistle he is somehow automagically immune from prosecution.


Except for the fact that he is immune ... or at least should be

The Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989, Pub.L. 101-12 as amended, is a United States federal law that protects federal employees who work for the government and report agency misconduct.


Snowden's actions are specifically excluded from protection by that act.

The dude is a criminal that indiscriminately released state secrets to the public.   He is no different than the asshole that let Valerie Plame's status be known.

He effectively broke into your house, stole your filing cabinet and then pulled out that "questionable" tax return and declared you a tax evader.
2014-01-29 05:55:02 PM
2 votes:
I think he totally deserves it.
2014-01-29 05:45:01 PM
2 votes:
dittybopper:

You could argue that Snowden, by exposing the pervasive surveillance capabilities of the NSA, made us all a little bit more free, if only because we *KNOW* we're being surveilled now.

You could also argue that he made us less free by revealing an intelligence method.  Sources and Methods are two of the most closely guarded secrets.  Now that this is publically known, the NSA does not need to use nearly as much discretion when acting on data collected by the means Snowden revealed.  They're still collecting the data. Now they can use it without fear of revealing how they got it, making it far more likely to be used against someone other than an Al Qaeda operative.
2014-01-29 05:44:31 PM
2 votes:

yakmans_dad: Well, to many on the left, Obama has just been a continuation of Bush. Particularly on foreign policy. So, yes, he's been disappointing.


Actually many of us "on the left" understand that Obama can only do so much, and Presidents don't control foreign policy, hardliners do. We also understand what happens to prospective progressives who try to challenge them.

The fact that we are still farking around the world stage is an indication of a much bigger problem than a cautious President.
2014-01-29 05:42:00 PM
2 votes:
Good, he deserves the prize.
2014-01-29 05:40:37 PM
2 votes:

whidbey: Lsherm: whidbey: How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.

He farking took the job on purpose to collect evidence.  That's not "risking your career" that's "achieving your goal."

Boo-farking-hoo if he didn't think it out.

He still took a huge risk doing what he did.

Jesus, does the Police State give you that big of a hardon or what, dude?


When I was growing up in the 80s I thought of Republicans as the police state's biggest proponents.  And the war on drugs.  And also the people most likely to say stupid shiat like, "America, love it or leave it."   Turns out there are authority fellators everywhere.
2014-01-29 05:38:44 PM
2 votes:

SirEattonHogg: So, you can't discern the difference between a private citizen who writes political articles critical of a government but neither works for the government nor has access to any sensitive information versus a person who signed a confidentiality agreement with his employer (a government), had access to a lot of state secrets and then fled to various foreign countries revealing sensitive state secrets along the way.

Okay, that makes sense.


Snowden was not a government employee, he worked for a private, for-profit business called Booz Allen Hamilton. He was a nobody working for one of many private businesses, just imagine how many others there are who had the same access to surveillance upon the American public who are content to take home their fat paychecks without speaking up.
The government is literally outsourcing national security:


Seventy percent of America's intelligence budget now flows to private contractors. Going by this year's estimated budget of about $80 billion, that makes private intelligence a $56 billion-a-year industry.
2014-01-29 05:33:07 PM
2 votes:

Bith Set Me Up: Bith Set Me Up: Snowden didn't reveal anything anyone with a functioning brain stem knew didn't know since at least 2006.

There, FTFM. I'm just ticked off with the folks over-glamourizing what he did.


but yet it took his actions to create a situation where the media really reported on it and congress people started asking questions and the courts started ruling on the legality of it all.
2014-01-29 05:13:28 PM
2 votes:

whidbey: I love how just because Snowden blew the whistle he is somehow automagically immune from prosecution.

Meanwhile, keep up the false equivalence.


There's a difference between wanting him tried for his crimes and demands he be assassinated.   I think he should be tried for leaking but the claims that the US should kill him with a drone strike or sniper are moronic.
2014-01-29 05:10:18 PM
2 votes:

kindms: Funny how that fact gets glossed over by the "cult"


Spoken by someone 100% open minded, I am sure.
2014-01-29 05:01:03 PM
2 votes:

kindms: He wanted to go in to Syria and only didnt when the entire country basically said NO.


Bullshiat.

So keep f-ing that chicken

You're doing a fine job yourself.

He has killed more innocents by drone than Bush, he has waged war on journalists and whistleblowers never before seen by US presidents. He has presided over ALL of the NSA BS that we keep learning about. And he continues to go on TV and tell everyone it is all legal and above board only to have his own appointed review board turn around and say he is full of crap.

Cool story, bro.

Obama is worse than Bush for the simple reason that under his administration all the things that democrats railed against under a republican administration have become normalized and accepted operating procedure under Obama.

He also assassinated American citizens including a 16 year old boy without due process afforded to them by the constitution. Funny how that fact gets glossed over by the "cult"


Haha no. Thanks for the derp, dude. That was a healthy dose.
2014-01-29 04:57:13 PM
2 votes:
Just because Snowden is guilty doesn't mean the NSA is innocent. They are both guilty of different shiat.
2014-01-29 04:52:56 PM
2 votes:

Hard Nard: brantgoose: Lookit tha funny man, Momma, his head assploded!

Come away, dear. That man's just a conservative. The cognitive dissonance of supporting law and order politics while hating and distrusting the government police state just became too much for his skull. When he tried to believe that the cops are never wrong and that the cops think of him as a terrorist at the same time, his brain just self-destructed in self-defence.

Conservative here, and I am a supporter of Snowden. Whether he wins the Nobel or not you have to admire a person who is willing to put his life, and maybe even the lives of his family and friends, to bring what he considers a violation of peoples rights into the light.


+1. In theory, anyone that supports liberty and a smaller government should applaud Snowden's actions. In practice, it seems that ordinary people across the political spectrum support Snowden, and politicians across the spectrum want him arrested and tried.
2014-01-29 04:49:25 PM
2 votes:

Bith Set Me Up: Snowden didn't reveal anything anyone with a functioning brain stem knew since at least 2006.


lolwut
2014-01-29 04:48:19 PM
2 votes:
The Nobel Peace Prize is not the same thing as Time's Person of the Year.

Person of the Year can be anybody, just because they did something that everyone knows about.  Even really horrific things.  The Peace prize, by it's very deffinition, means that you have to do something that promotes peace.  It seems to me that Snowden has muddled things up and pissed people off.  Such to a point that new enemies have been made because of it.  And certainly, not more peace.
I don't see that really fitting the criteria.
2014-01-29 04:46:46 PM
2 votes:
Snowden didn't reveal anything anyone with a functioning brain stem knew since at least 2006.
2014-01-29 04:45:06 PM
2 votes:

tylerdurden217: I really have no issues with President Obama, I even voted for him both times. But I really did not understand why he won that award. It made no sense then and it makes even less sense now.


It totally made sense. It was the world's way of thanking the US for not electing another stupid warmonger like Bush. Yes, I know we're still stuck cleaning up his legacy in Afghanistaq. But in the last 5 years, Obama has also somehow managed to deflect the hardliners' war hardon to attack Iran and North Korea, so that is actually saying something. Romney, had he been elected, would have been pushing for both.
2014-01-29 04:40:26 PM
2 votes:
Nice meta-troll, subby. Nominating him makes perfect sense; calling that action "trolling" is, itself, trolling. And I bet it'll be highly successful.

/bonus question: is this a troll?
2014-01-29 02:57:10 PM
2 votes:
I've mentioned this at every other article talking about someone nominated for the Nobel Prize.

The Nobel Prize nominations are open to thousands of public academics and officials around the country and they are free to nominate whoever they wish. Most nominate good nominees. A few nominate their mothers. Others nominate nominees like Hitler (1939) and Stalin (1945 & 1948).
2014-01-29 02:21:00 PM
2 votes:

tlars699: There's no way he can accept this, right? It would be like Roman Polansky coming over to the US for an Oscar.
Right?


Well, it's not like the award ceremony is in L.A. or anything--it's in Sweden.  But anyway, just as Woody Allen never shows up to the Oscars but still gets nominated and is eligible to win, you don't have to show up at the Nobel awards ceremony to win the prize--it isn't like a "must be present to win" raffle drawing.
2014-01-30 06:25:08 PM
1 votes:

mjbok: The fact that so little has been released by Snowden speaks to his motives.  I'm certain that he has stuff that would be damaging and put lives at risk, but he hasn't.  What does that say?


That the Russians and Chinese have paid him well to keep his mouth shut?
2014-01-30 10:36:01 AM
1 votes:

EdgeRunner: Khellendros: EdgeRunner: Evil does exist in the world. A non-violent movement could not have halted Hitler's armies. Negotiations cannot convince al Qaeda's leaders to lay down their arms. To say that force may sometimes be necessary is not a call to cynicism -- it is a recognition of history; the imperfections of man and the limits of reason.

And that had absolutely nothing to do with what I posted, nor what I was responding to, in any way.

Khellendros:  How is that dumb?  It's obvious to anyone who can walk and breathe at the same that while it was awarded to him, it wasn't about what he did, it was about what he represented in the U.S. - a turn away from warmongering and choosing to end two wars and institute foreign policy that wasn't about aggression and antagonism.

But the world must remember that it was not simply international institutions - not just treaties and declarations - that brought stability to a post-World War II world.  Whatever mistakes we have made, the plain fact is this:  The United States of America has helped underwrite global security for more than six decades with the blood of our citizens and the strength of our arms.  The service and sacrifice of our men and women in uniform has promoted peace and prosperity from Germany to Korea, and enabled democracy to take hold in places like the Balkans.  We have borne this burden not because we seek to impose our will.  We have done so out of enlightened self-interest, because we seek a better future for our children and grandchildren, and we believe that their lives will be better if others' children and grandchildren can live in freedom and prosperity.

So yes, the instruments of war do have a role to play in preserving the peace.


Hail Caesar!
2014-01-30 09:36:22 AM
1 votes:
whidbey
Um, Snowden did break the law and put this country at risk.

Yes and no, respectively. There's a lot of assumptions in "and put this country at risk" that could be unpacked.

You really think Obama's going to jump for joy?

He could be acknowledging that the NSA is infested with a Stasi-like culture and have the DoJ or whoever start throwing people in jail, as dbaggins pointed out. But that's about as likely as him ordering prosecutions of predatory lenders. Instead, he gives a speech vaguely claiming that there will be accountability and changes of some sort (which was totally not because of Snowden because, remember kids, only going through "proper channels" works), while giving Clapper a hand job. So now you get to choose whether Obama is this wise-but-cautious middle-of-the-road type (never mind "change") with the country's best interests at heart, or whether he actually aligns with and is a member of the same "hardliner" class that you find such a conveniently imprecise scapegoat.

Let me give you yet another example. Obama will be in Wisconsin's very own Mordor, Waukesha, today, to discuss "job training". Specifically, ostensibly getting job training programs in Milwaukee Area Technical College to align to what regional 'job creators' want.
This is a huge slap in the face to Wisconsin liberals and progressives, because this supports right-wing efforts to put MATC under the control of adjacent suburban counties in a further march toward putting control of public education in the hands of the business class, making it for-profit, and privatizing it. Obama is incontrovertibly supporting this effort by visiting Waukesha and calling for "job training".
Tell me- is this the work of "hardliners", or is this what Obama actually believes?
There will be one good thing coming out of this- there will be pictures of Obama and Walker shaking hands. I will throw that picture in the face of anyone who dares wag their finger at me for not uncritically supporting the Democrats.
2014-01-30 02:07:52 AM
1 votes:
The fact is, Snowden and the Guardian have been extremely careful in not releasing any information that would put one single life in danger.

You cite a counter-example and claim your Pulitzer.
2014-01-30 02:04:24 AM
1 votes:

whidbey: Imagine if an Al Qaeda operative had done it.


what, Al Qeada operatives provided proof of Americans violating American laws ?   heck, front page please.

what?  you say it's not "proof"  well, what would you call it ?  Here, we call it probably cause.   What prosecutor has stepped up ?

The data released and the source make it perfectly clear that we are not dealing with baseless accusations.


Saying "whistleblowing shiat aside" is a bit of a tell.    Why do you think we need a thing like whistleblowing?


I have earlier posts you have skipped in this day.
2014-01-30 01:37:26 AM
1 votes:

RanDomino: The fact that we are still farking around the world stage is an indication of a much bigger problem than a cautious President.

Again with the assumption that Obama really truly means well but has his hands tied by The System.
Things make much more sense when you realize that the moderate-conservative Democrats like him and the Clintons really truly are more acolytes of Reagan than people like you prefer to believe. I mean, god damn, how can a person look at Obama calling Showden a criminal for releasing this important information which will endanger agents and vital security efforts, but which has no effect on the security agencies, and everything the agencies have been doing is legal, but we're going to review it and make changes, but those reviews have nothing to do with Snowden or the leaks, and not feel physically disgusted?


Heh. God damn those "people like me" way way down there while you're way way UP there. Jesus, dude.

how can a person look at Obama calling Showden a criminal for releasing this important information which will endanger agents and vital security efforts, but which has no effect on the security agencies, and everything the agencies have been doing is legal, but we're going to review it and make changes, but those reviews have nothing to do with Snowden or the leaks, and not feel physically disgusted?

Um, Snowden did break the law and put this country at risk. You really think Obama's going to jump for joy? Frankly, whistleblowing shiat aside, it's an act of terror and espionage. Imagine if an Al Qaeda operative had done it.

Just pointing out that you're very one-sided as usual. And needlessly condescending of someone who shares many of your values. Again.
2014-01-30 01:22:48 AM
1 votes:
Your boss asks you to build a system to put American citizen text messages into a huge database for the NSA ?  YOU ARE AN ACCOMPLICE to a CRIME.

You write a software program to analyze patterns in cell phone traffic across all the Verizon cell phone users?  YOU ARE A CRIMINAL.  It doesn't matter if someone from the government told you to.  YOU ARE A CRIMINAL AND SHOULD STAND TRIAL.

Would you like to flip on your boss during the prosecution?  ok.  that's allowed in this land, but the fact remains that this is a plea bargain.  You committed a felony.  A federal felony.


awe, did Snowden tell everyone you were a federal felon and now you have a sad because you broke the law to be patriotic ?  well, that makes you a vigilante.  Want a plea bargain or jail time ?   You have the personal option to break the law for the good of your kinsmen and country, but that is only a factor in your sentencing, not your conviction.    There are, and I do mean this literally, tens of thousands of unindicted criminals right now working in the federal government and their private contractors.  Still today breaking the law.

None of them are being forced to stand and claim both their crime and their patriotism.   We just have a bunch of idiotic apologists that would rather destroy democracy than force these people to take the stand and plead this exact case.

I would salute any of them that would be willing to go even as far as Oliver North and tell Congress they broke the law and take full responsibility.

No, we don't do that in the USA anymore.  We can't even get someone to admit they put themselves before country and admit they broke the law.

It is all very sick.
2014-01-30 12:59:13 AM
1 votes:

wee: Anyone mentioned all the drone strikes yet?  How abut the ones that killed U.S. citizens with zero due process whatsoever?  Anyone mention that?  What about the people in gitmo that still haven't had charges filed against them?  Anyone mentioned a campaign promise from 2007 yet?


But its not Fascism when Obummer does it.
2014-01-29 11:30:42 PM
1 votes:

ISO15693: The tragedy of all of this is that there are thousands upon thousands of "good" people, doing their best to be honest and trustworthy, and doing their best to protect not only their own families, or even just the families of their own countrymen, but people doing their best to protect everyone -who had access to the same information, and realized that the best choice would be to protect that information in the best interests of everyone - the tragedy is that Snowden undermined all of their efforts, for his own misguided sense of idealism. He betrayed the trust of many, many, MANY "good" people doing their best to do "good" things for "good" reasons while forced to make extremely difficult sacrifices and choices to reach those "good" goals.



The road to hell is paved with "good" intentions.

The ends do not justify the means. We can change the laws to allow spying, we can change the constitution to allow it, but we did nether.

Why did we set up a framework for our government to work inside if we're going to ignore it for "good" goals?  Are our laws and the constitution worth so little, that we are willing to throw them out, just to gain some security?
2014-01-29 09:52:17 PM
1 votes:
Lsherm
So go back, take some time to look at all the facts of the case that have been released, and then post. I didn't call him a criminal, I said he was ignorant about what he did. Apparently so are you. What should be alarming to you is that you haven't bothered to do any research, you're just bleating like you think the security apparatus is.

I went back and looked again at what you said earlier. Let's take a look at this gem:

you have to believe that one person who stole snippets of a whole story is more correct than a collective of millions over the years

Would that be the same 'collective of millions' that gave us this gem?
2010.newsweek.com

No, you simply believe that the US is fundamentally Good, in your gut. Reality be damned. Facts be damned. Pattern recognition be damned.

The thing is, it's not that hard to understand how people who are themselves not particularly evil, and in fact are generally decent and caring individuals, can be turned into doing and supporting evil acts. There's even a book about it:
upload.wikimedia.org
2014-01-29 09:26:40 PM
1 votes:

FormlessOne: but also the industrial espionage Snowden alluded to a couple of weeks ago


For any one Snowden, there are probably 40 slimy Booz-Allen-Hamilton rats that are *selling* their intelligence on the black market.

and nobody will touch them, since Booz-Allen-Hamilton probably has dirt on everyone.

They all want Snowden gone and off the radar before people start to wise up.
2014-01-29 08:41:19 PM
1 votes:
Whether you like Snowden, I think everyone from all parts of the political spectrum can agree that Clapper needs to be put in jail.     He is either in a conspiracy to subvert the constitution with elements in the Whitehouse, or he has lied to his superiors and violated the law of his own accord.
2014-01-29 08:34:48 PM
1 votes:
Here's a transcript of today's threat assessment hearing in the Senate Intelligence Committee, in which Clapper and others denounce Snowden.  It is long and may make you angry.  There is a lot of fawning over the military men and their projects by senators Feinstein, King, Mikulski, Rockefeller and some others.  Only Wyden and Udall pose tough questions, and they are brushed aside with non-answers.  Udall pushes CIA director Brennan on detention and interrogation and is brushed aside.

Incredibly, Mikulski calls for the whole surveillance thing to go to the Supreme Court for an advisory opinion so we can put this whole thing behind us.  She has maybe never heard of the case or controversy requirement.
2014-01-29 08:01:14 PM
1 votes:

whidbey: Lsherm: sendtodave: Which narrative, the one where he is only an innocent bystander, or the one where he is a malicious, monomaniacal traitor?

Either/or depending on which side you fall.  He's not really a victim, but he's also not someone who clearly thought out a plan to bring the US to its knees.  He planned to much to be a victim, and not enough to be a super-spy.

whidbey: I'm really not seeing the "megalomania" angle.

Of course you don't because you suffer from it or something similar yourself.  You consider him a hero because you cannot understand or acknowledge that he's done real damage to real people you don't know about.  Instead, you think this:

whidbey: And if anything, it takes a lot of courage to stand up to nearly indefensible policy like the NSA, or for that matter, the US as the aggressively hypocritical mega-state it's become.

That's a great sentiment if you don't care about anything except your own narrow worldview.  In order to support it you have to actively reject knowledge of any third party that may do harm and instead focus your ire on the NSA or the US, as you've so clearly stated.  Then you have to believe that one person who stole snippets of a whole story is more correct than a collective of millions over the years, and more importantly that any third party is just a figment of the collective's imagination or a non-concern based on your own personal belief.

If that's not megalomania, then maybe it's just good old-fashioned narcissism or myopia.

Forgive me if I dismiss your comment as a bunch of patronizing bullshiat.

Snowden blew the whistle on a government he knew was overstepping its bounds. And god knows how much harm has already been done by their zeal, hypocrisy and violation of other people's rights.


Which is why he should come home and face the people he helped in a jury trial
2014-01-29 07:59:28 PM
1 votes:
Snowden deserves this prize more than all you moronic bootlickers on this shiatty board. You have no sense of justice or freedom. Authoritarian fark holes. You actually use the word "loyalty" when speaking of the US government? Are you farking crazy? These farkers will kill your whole farking family without blinking an eye. They don't care about their own citizens. They care about power and control. This man is a hero. Future history books will bear that out.
2014-01-29 07:51:53 PM
1 votes:

sendtodave: yakmans_dad: ISO15693: Snowden is no hero to thoughtful people.


Did you dislocate your shoulder doing that?

Adults don't have ideals.


They do. They also usually understand the nature of ideals. They are goals, but not always perfect, absolute ones.

An adult can have the ideal "It is always good to tell the truth" and they will still be able to recognize the importance of lying when your wife asks if she looks fat in these pants. You still have the ideal. You just know it doesn't apply in all situations. It isn't absolute.
2014-01-29 07:21:05 PM
1 votes:

whidbey: Who the hell is advocating that? Drew's Heineken Troll Cabal?


Sitting farking Senators and members of the House, for starters.
2014-01-29 07:03:59 PM
1 votes:

dittybopper: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

Moreso, actually:  Obama got his for, well, no one really knows, because he hadn't actually done much at that point except win an election.

You could argue that Snowden, by exposing the pervasive surveillance capabilities of the NSA, made us all a little bit more free, if only because we *KNOW* we're being surveilled now.


Well, he degraded the standing of the US in the eyes of the rest of the world, caused increased tensions with many allies (and non allies), and therefore the world in general. More or less the opposite of peace, IMHO.

People can say "Well, too bad, the US deserves all the fallout" but realistically, exposing the seamy underbelly of more-or-less-necessary (imho) government mechanisms of just one country, without providing the same info on all other countries for comparison, was not really a helpful thing to anyone, anywhere.

Anyone who has ever been married, or raised children, would know that the ideal of "it is *always* good to shine light on all information and behavior" is a flawed ideal. Ideals are great, openness is usually great - but with maturity perspective and experience, we all eventually learn that not everything ends up being nicely categorized into "good" and "evil" - and this is especially true when it comes to the choices that need to be made at the scale we are discussing. There are always sacrifices, and extremely difficult choices.

Snowdon was an idealist, and he knew that his leaks would appeal to other idealists who lack that perspective, to paranoids, and to others who fear the government - and he has their support now. But we, all of us, are most certainly not safer now - neither are the operatives he exposed who have since been executed - those same operatives who had been making their own sacrifices and difficult choices. And neither are those whom those operatives protected.

The tragedy of all of this is that there are thousands upon thousands of "good" people, doing their best to be honest and trustworthy, and doing their best to protect not only their own families, or even just the families of their own countrymen, but people doing their best to protect everyone -who had access to the same information, and realized that the best choice would be to protect that information in the best interests of everyone - the tragedy is that Snowden undermined all of their efforts, for his own misguided sense of idealism. He betrayed the trust of many, many, MANY "good" people doing their best to do "good" things for "good" reasons while forced to make extremely difficult sacrifices and choices to reach those "good" goals.

This isn't about one nation over another, or about patriotism or jingoism - all those who govern and protect all nations have to make similar choices - choices that would look equally bad if held up to the light outside of their normal context.

Snowden is no hero to thoughtful people.
2014-01-29 07:00:48 PM
1 votes:
By that same logic, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg should be awarded one for ending the US monopoly on nuclear weapons.
2014-01-29 06:54:11 PM
1 votes:

TheWhoppah: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States... to recognize our collective ability to see the fear mongering GOP asswipes politicians of both parties for who they really were and reject their "bomb bomb Iran" preemptive-war policies.  We elected, as our president, a man named  Barack Hussein Obama just a few years after falling hook-line-and-sinker for the GOP/FoxNews media lie machine regarding another man named Hussein.  I'm sure it took brass balls for Obama to even consider running for president but this award was for the everyday Americans that stood in line to vote for him.


(Fixed because it wasn't just the GOP or Fox News at the time; it was pretty much everyone doing that shiat right up until a few neurons started firing again)

That is the first logical explanation I have heard for President Obama's Peace Prize award since it was awarded.
2014-01-29 06:51:46 PM
1 votes:

mongbiohazard: tylerdurden217: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

I really have no issues with President Obama, I even voted for him both times. But I really did not understand why he won that award. It made no sense then and it makes even less sense now.

I hope Snowden really does win the Nobel Peace Prize. I'm not saying that what he did was right or wrong. I'm not even suggesting that he would be the most deserving of the prize, but it would at least keep the conversation going regarding privacy.

All of this except I'd say what Snowden did was clearly right, and he's a goddamn national hero.


Snowden is not a hero. He took a lot more than evidence of a collection of phone records. We have yet to find out the full dimensions of what he took. At the moment, he could as easily be a traitor who should be hanged.
2014-01-29 06:50:38 PM
1 votes:

tylerdurden217: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

I really have no issues with President Obama, I even voted for him both times. But I really did not understand why he won that award. It made no sense then and it makes even less sense now.

I hope Snowden really does win the Nobel Peace Prize. I'm not saying that what he did was right or wrong. I'm not even suggesting that he would be the most deserving of the prize, but it would at least keep the conversation going regarding privacy.


Obama won that prize because of his amazing speeches, and the fact that the entire world was so sick of Bush by that point that ANYONE who gave people hope was put on a pedestal and admired.  The world truly loved Obama, right up until he took office and became the spineless little weasel pet of Wall Street he is today (to be fair, I also voted for him/drank the kool aid).  Talk, it turns out, is cheap.

Snowden, on the other hand, exposed perhaps the largest threat to true democracy in human history, at much (widely acknowledged) personal risk.  The man is the embodiment of the spirit of the award.  I've said for years that we need a Privacy Amendment to the Constitution, this was why.  Specifically, ever since Carnivore, the assholes in DC have found every way possible to get all up in everyone's business, at least now its out in the open.

On a related topic, since the grand panel in Washington investigated the Snowden leaks and decided that what the NSA was doing was illegal, when will the world be treated to watching James Clapper and General Alexander go to jail?  I thought that was what was supposed to happen when people break the law?... or did I miss something?
2014-01-29 06:24:56 PM
1 votes:

Rent Party: He is no different than the asshole that let Valerie Plame's status be known.


Scooter Libby?

Rent Party: He effectively broke into your house, stole your filing cabinet and then pulled out that "questionable" tax return and declared you a tax evader.


I guess I don't see it that way. Him stealing my docs and declaring me a tax evader is a pretty huge stretch. My tax evasion doesn't equate to the US government spying on citizens, shiatting on the 4th, and absolutely destroying high levels of trust amongst our allies (Merkel et al)

nope. not even close.
2014-01-29 06:20:35 PM
1 votes:
Nomination isn't a win... I don't think he deserves it.
2014-01-29 06:16:57 PM
1 votes:
MAXIMUM TROLLING would be if St Vlad made Snowy Ambassador to the US he could come to the US and have diplomatic immunity.
2014-01-29 06:03:57 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: As much as I dislike snowden's personality and motives for doing what he did as less than altruistic,'


I don't get that sentiment in the least. How the fark did he do anything but suffer for his actions? And what the fark is wrong with his personality? You people all seem like basic slaves to the media. They can't program you with a 'take' on a situation no matter what the facts are.
2014-01-29 06:02:18 PM
1 votes:
Is he really worthy of standing along side luminaries of peace like Yasser Arafat and Barack Obama?
How many suicide bombers and hellfire missiles has this loser contributed to the cause of peace?
I think you should have to at least blow up four weddings and a funeral before you are even considered for nomination.

Call it the Gandhi rule.
2014-01-29 05:58:04 PM
1 votes:

whidbey: m00: I hope he wins.

I would love to see the politicians trying to condemn china for jailing its nobel price winners, but justify (trying to) jail snowden.

I love how just because Snowden blew the whistle he is somehow automagically immune from prosecution.



Except for the fact that he is immune ... or at least should be

The Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989, Pub.L. 101-12 as amended, is a United States federal law that protects federal employees who work for the government and report agency misconduct.
2014-01-29 05:57:55 PM
1 votes:

sendtodave: SirEattonHogg: TheWhoppah:  wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.


Have you ever met an actual European?   When you tell them you are from America, they start speaking slowly and simply, because they assume you are a child....................................

They just know that they are the real adults in the room.



The fact that the Europeans have a false sense of superiority doesn't make them "the adults in the room". Over the last 100 years, or so,  how have the Europeans proven themselves to be superioror more mature than the Americans?  Starting WWI? Starting WWII? Getting rebuilt through the US-designed Marshall Plan? Or perhaps you're referring to the way the Europeans managed more recent international issues, like the "successful" breakup of Yugoslavia?
2014-01-29 05:57:14 PM
1 votes:

MadMattressMack: TheDirtyNacho: I think, eventually, Snowden will be back and welcomed as a hero.  History tends to be kind to whistleblowers and not to over-reaching governments.

I'm not so sure. I think both sides are in the wrong here and I wouldn't call him a hero. Unless he took up Anna Chapman's offer of marriage.



A not-great comparison might be Pete Seeger.  He was hauled before Congress to be accused of being a Communist (and he was!) and then tossed in jail for contempt because he wouldn't name names.  But he stuck to his principles and despite being very unpopular in love-it-or-leave-it circles became an important element to the protests and social upheaval and eventually an icon of history.

Obviously not the same situation, and nobody's a perfect angel pure in deed, but I think history will look at his actions with favor.
2014-01-29 05:56:46 PM
1 votes:

Lsherm: sendtodave: Lsherm: whidbey: How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.

He farking took the job on purpose to collect evidence.  That's not "risking your career" that's "achieving your goal."

Boo-farking-hoo if he didn't think it out.

Huh.  Don't recall reading that before.

Well of course not, it doesn't fit in the "narrative."


Which narrative, the one where he is only an innocent bystander, or the one where he is a malicious, monomaniacal traitor?
2014-01-29 05:54:38 PM
1 votes:

smoky2010: whidbey: yakmans_dad: People asking why did Obama win the Nobel are being disingenuous.   He won because he wasn't George W. Bush.

No farking shiat. The entire world breathed a sigh of relief when Bush left office. That right there deserves an award.

In hindsight, seeing what a crappy president Obama is, I'd take 4 more years of Dubya. No, I don't like wars and such, but Obama is just taking up space in the White House. Its like were are all just waiting out this last term so that we can start actually doing something.


Doing "something"?  Like failing to prevent 9/11 even after reading a security memo that read "Bin Laden Determined to Strike Within U.S."?  Like making up WMD claims in order to start a costly war against a country that didn't attack us?  Cutting taxes for the wealthy and sparking the Great Recession?  Turning a surplus into an $11 Trillion deficit?  Cutting spending on education, health care, environmental protection, and regulatory agencies?  Being the only industrialized nation to reject the Kyoto agreements to protect the environment?  Restricting states from regulating predatory lenders?  Badly mismanaging the Katrina disaster?  Denying global climate change -- or any science -- because it didn't line up with his politics?  Never apologizing or even recognizing any mistakes?

You mean those kinds of things?

You're smoking some pretty strong stuff, smoky2010.
2014-01-29 05:49:47 PM
1 votes:

TheDirtyNacho: I think, eventually, Snowden will be back and welcomed as a hero.  History tends to be kind to whistleblowers and not to over-reaching governments.


I'm not so sure. I think both sides are in the wrong here and I wouldn't call him a hero. Unless he took up Anna Chapman's offer of marriage.
2014-01-29 05:48:52 PM
1 votes:

MJMaloney187: Roger that, Smoky, but people seem to forget that President Bush had 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina to deal with.


Yea, and Obama had Bush's messes to deal with, which were arguably bigger disasters.

/ far, far more people died in the Iraq war than in 9/11 and Katrina combined
2014-01-29 05:45:39 PM
1 votes:

Big_Fat_Liar: When I was growing up in the 80s I thought of Republicans as the police state's biggest proponents. And the war on drugs. And also the people most likely to say stupid shiat like, "America, love it or leave it." Turns out there are authority fellators everywhere.


It's not a left-right thing -- it's just that people can't look at their own side with a critical eye.  I hated Bush, but that doesn't automatically imply that I adore Obama.  He's better, certainly, but far from perfect.  Yes, when it comes to "police state" issues, he seems to be basically unprincipled -- at least as much as Bush was.

But people cling to their political affiliations with almost religious zeal: my candidate, right or wrong.
2014-01-29 05:44:13 PM
1 votes:

smoky2010: I can't wait until that little prick gets "Rosenburged".

\Thats what you do to traitors


Um, that little prick General Alexander? Because if anyone is a traitor, it's the head of the NSA. These guys take an oath to uphold the constitution- Alexander and many other very high ranking officials willingly broke that oath. They are the greater traitors deserving our wrath, not Snowden. Snowden only showed us how these guys were violating our civil rights.
2014-01-29 05:35:40 PM
1 votes:

chachi88: whidbey: MadMattressMack: You know who else was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize?

I find it funny that the person whose namesake is the prize is ultimately responsible for god knows many deaths through the use of explosives.

 Unbeknownst to his family, friends or colleagues, he had left most of his wealth in trust, in order to fund the awards that would become known as the <a data-cke-saved-href="<a href=" href="<a href=" http:="" en.wikipedia.org="" wiki="" nobel_prize"="" target="_blank">Nobel Prizes


Yeah but Nobel's invention caused a lot of death and damage to people, animals and property over the past 100 years. Don't you find that even the least bit lulzy?
2014-01-29 05:34:26 PM
1 votes:

smoky2010: In hindsight, seeing what a crappy president Obama is, I'd take 4 more years of Dubya.


how old are you?
2014-01-29 05:30:44 PM
1 votes:

whidbey: Bith Set Me Up: Snowden didn't reveal anything anyone with a functioning brain stem knew since at least 2006.

lolwut


Yeah, he should have said since the Patriot Act, but actually much earlier than that. The only revelation that surprised me was spying on Brazil.
2014-01-29 05:27:41 PM
1 votes:

Lsherm: whidbey: How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.

He farking took the job on purpose to collect evidence.  That's not "risking your career" that's "achieving your goal."

Boo-farking-hoo if he didn't think it out.


He still took a huge risk doing what he did.

Jesus, does the Police State give you that big of a hardon or what, dude?
2014-01-29 05:27:36 PM
1 votes:

TheWhoppah: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States... to recognize our collective ability to see the fear mongering GOP asswipes for who they really were and reject their "bomb bomb Iran" preemptive-war policies.  We elected, as our president, a man named  Barack Hussein Obama just a few years after falling hook-line-and-sinker for the GOP/FoxNews lie machine regarding another man named Hussein.  I'm sure it took brass balls for Obama to even consider running for president but this award was for the everyday Americans that stood in line to vote for him.


That makes as much sense as giving the award to Jeri Ryan's breasts.  Those are two of the biggest reasons why Barack is in office.
2014-01-29 05:26:38 PM
1 votes:
People asking why did Obama win the Nobel are being disingenuous.   He won because he wasn't George W. Bush.
2014-01-29 05:24:53 PM
1 votes:

whidbey: How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.


He farking took the job on purpose to collect evidence.  That's not "risking your career" that's "achieving your goal."

Boo-farking-hoo if he didn't think it out.
2014-01-29 05:23:56 PM
1 votes:

kindms: whidbey: tylerdurden217: I really have no issues with President Obama, I even voted for him both times. But I really did not understand why he won that award. It made no sense then and it makes even less sense now.

It totally made sense. It was the world's way of thanking the US for not electing another stupid warmonger like Bush.


Was Bush a warmonger? He came across as the mildly retarded frontman for a cabal of warmongers.

You know, little things like having difficulty speaking in public and generally making a tit of himself, while god knows who actually planned the wars.

Yes, I know we're still stuck cleaning up his legacy in Afghanistaq. But in the last 5 years, Obama has also somehow managed to deflect the hardliners' war hardon to attack Iran and North Korea, so that is actually saying something. Romney, had he been elected, would have been pushing for both.

He wanted to go in to Syria and only didnt when the entire country basically said NO. So keep f-ing that chicken. He has killed more innocents by drone than Bush,


How many Americans have been killed in the wars started in Bush's reign?

How many non-American civilians have been killed in the same conflicts?

he has waged war on journalists and whistleblowers never before seen by US presidents.

Nixon doctrine.

And do you think a different president would have handled Assange and Snowden differently?

He has presided over ALL of the NSA BS that we keep learning about.

Bush didn't?

And he continues to go on TV and tell everyone it is all legal and above board only to have his own appointed review board turn around and say he is full of crap.

Obama is worse than Bush for the simple reason that under his administration all the things that democrats railed against under a republican administration have become normalized and accepted operating procedure under Obama.


Both sides are bad, so Bush is better?

Makes you sound kind of racist, dude.

He also assassinated American citizens including a 16 year old boy without due process afforded to them by the constitution. Funny how that fact gets glossed over by the "cult"

Yeah... your post leaves me thinking that if anyone's a member of a "cult"... it's you.
2014-01-29 05:22:35 PM
1 votes:
Well Gore got one for no reason, so why not?
2014-01-29 05:21:55 PM
1 votes:

sendtodave: Have you ever met an actual European?   When you tell them you are from America, they start speaking slowly and simply, because they assume you are a child.


unless you are a black basketball player, then they throw bananas at you while making monkey noises.
2014-01-29 05:21:39 PM
1 votes:

kindms: He wanted to go in to Syria and only didnt when the entire country basically said NO. So keep f-ing that chicken. He has killed more innocents by drone than Bush, he has waged war on journalists and whistleblowers never before seen by US presidents. He has presided over ALL of the NSA BS that we keep learning about. And he continues to go on TV and tell everyone it is all legal and above board only to have his own appointed review board turn around and say he is full of crap.

Obama is worse than Bush for the simple reason that under his administration all the things that democrats railed against under a republican administration have become normalized and accepted operating procedure under Obama.

He also assassinated American citizens including a 16 year old boy without due process afforded to them by the constitution. Funny how that fact gets glossed over by the "cult"


img.fark.net
2014-01-29 05:20:46 PM
1 votes:

jshine: OrangeFree: Making all nations hyper suspicious of one another is "a fundamental requirement for peace?"

Honestly, has this planet gone completely nutty bananas?


That's like saying Erin Brockovich was at fault for stirring people up by publicizing PG&E's toxic chemical releases.

Shooting the messenger is rarely the right response.


Not really a fair comparison. What part of exposing PG&E caused major strain to diplomatic relations again? Not shooting the messenger - but sometimes the messenger's a dick and delivered the message with dickish motives.
2014-01-29 05:19:44 PM
1 votes:

BafflerMeal: For the folks who don't like Snowden due to 'his personality', or narcissism, or 'being a prick':

How did you arrive at those viewpoints?  I don't recall a ton of interviews.  I may have missed them through.

If you answer is wrapped up in the crime, discount my question.  Trying to figure out how folks have psychoanalyzed Snowden as a public figure like they were neighbors.


After bashing the US he said that he was glad he was living in Russia and had the support of China because of their stellar record of protecting Human Rights.

He's a disingenuous arsehole.
2014-01-29 05:14:28 PM
1 votes:
For the folks who don't like Snowden due to 'his personality', or narcissism, or 'being a prick':

How did you arrive at those viewpoints?  I don't recall a ton of interviews.  I may have missed them through.

If you answer is wrapped up in the crime, discount my question.  Trying to figure out how folks have psychoanalyzed Snowden as a public figure like they were neighbors.
2014-01-29 05:11:34 PM
1 votes:

xanadian: oren0: Hard Nard: brantgoose: ...

/no, but seriously, there's no way Snowden escapes martyr status of the US gets his hands on him


Snowden is going to die of heavy metals poison when he's accidentally poked with an umbrella or a fountain pen.
2014-01-29 05:11:28 PM
1 votes:
m00:

I hope he wins.

I would love to see the politicians trying to condemn china for jailing its nobel price winners, but justify (trying to) jail snowden.



So, you can't discern the difference between a private citizen who writes political articles critical of a government but neither works for the government nor has access to any sensitive information versus a person who signed a confidentiality agreement with his employer (a government), had access to a lot of state secrets and then fled to various foreign countries revealing sensitive state secrets along the way.

Okay, that makes sense.
2014-01-29 05:08:44 PM
1 votes:

whidbey: I'm sure he admires her. The woman shoots moose out of helicopters ferchrissakes.


As God is my witness, I thought mooses could fly. Youbetcha. Also.
2014-01-29 05:08:37 PM
1 votes:

oren0: Hard Nard: brantgoose: Lookit tha funny man, Momma, his head assploded!

Come away, dear. That man's just a conservative. The cognitive dissonance of supporting law and order politics while hating and distrusting the government police state just became too much for his skull. When he tried to believe that the cops are never wrong and that the cops think of him as a terrorist at the same time, his brain just self-destructed in self-defence.

Conservative here, and I am a supporter of Snowden. Whether he wins the Nobel or not you have to admire a person who is willing to put his life, and maybe even the lives of his family and friends, to bring what he considers a violation of peoples rights into the light.

+1. In theory, anyone that supports liberty and a smaller government should applaud Snowden's actions. In practice, it seems that ordinary people across the political spectrum support Snowden, and politicians across the spectrum want him arrested and tried.


I liken it to the difference between the "correct" thing to do (obey the law) and the "right" thing to do (stick your neck out for other people's rights).  I don't think anyone on FARK knows the full breadth of what Snowden did or what the ultimate consequences will be on the world stage, so it's hard to judge fairly if what he did was "right" or not.  It sure the fark wasn't correct.

Personally, I wouldn't be saddened if he was arrested, tried and convicted.  If they strike him down, he shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

/no, but seriously, there's no way Snowden escapes martyr status of the US gets his hands on him
2014-01-29 05:07:21 PM
1 votes:

m00: I hope he wins.

I would love to see the politicians trying to condemn china for jailing its nobel price winners, but justify (trying to) jail snowden.


I love how just because Snowden blew the whistle he is somehow automagically immune from prosecution.

Meanwhile, keep up the false equivalence.
2014-01-29 05:05:51 PM
1 votes:

i.bullfax.com

Courtesy of williambanzai7 - http://williambanzai7.blogspot.com/

2014-01-29 05:05:40 PM
1 votes:

Nemo's Brother: whidbey: kindms: He wanted to go in to Syria and only didnt when the entire country basically said NO.

Bullshiat.

So keep f-ing that chicken

You're doing a fine job yourself.

He has killed more innocents by drone than Bush, he has waged war on journalists and whistleblowers never before seen by US presidents. He has presided over ALL of the NSA BS that we keep learning about. And he continues to go on TV and tell everyone it is all legal and above board only to have his own appointed review board turn around and say he is full of crap.

Cool story, bro.

Obama is worse than Bush for the simple reason that under his administration all the things that democrats railed against under a republican administration have become normalized and accepted operating procedure under Obama.

He also assassinated American citizens including a 16 year old boy without due process afforded to them by the constitution. Funny how that fact gets glossed over by the "cult"

Haha no. Thanks for the derp, dude. That was a healthy dose.

So do you deny his claims about Obama then?


Yeah. First of all, anyone who refers to the voting public who overwhelmingly elected Obama twice as a "cult" has some reality problems.
2014-01-29 05:03:26 PM
1 votes:

kindms: Obama is worse than Bush for the simple reason that under his administration all the things that democrats railed against under a republican administration have become normalized and accepted operating procedure under Obama.


Well I have to give Obama credit: he campaigned hard on closing the Guantanamo prison, and he really delivered on that promise.
2014-01-29 05:02:11 PM
1 votes:

jfarkinB: Nice meta-troll, subby. Nominating him makes perfect sense; calling that action "trolling" is, itself, trolling. And I bet it'll be highly successful.

/bonus question: is this a troll?


IT'S TURTLES TROLLS, ALL THE WAY DOWN
wee [TotalFark]
2014-01-29 05:01:08 PM
1 votes:

TheWhoppah: Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States


If Obama deserves it (an award he feels he didn't deserve) then Snowden really deserves it.
2014-01-29 04:58:55 PM
1 votes:
I'm nominating:
www.bbc.co.uk
2014-01-29 04:56:45 PM
1 votes:

Bith Set Me Up: Snowden didn't reveal anything anyone with a functioning brain stem knew since at least 2006.


So he did nothing wrong then? You're ok with him coming back to America with no charges?
2014-01-29 04:52:19 PM
1 votes:
I can't wait until that little prick gets "Rosenburged".

\Thats what you do to traitors
2014-01-29 04:49:03 PM
1 votes:

Cyberluddite: tlars699: There's no way he can accept this, right? It would be like Roman Polansky coming over to the US for an Oscar.
Right?

Well, it's not like the award ceremony is in L.A. or anything--it's in Sweden.  But anyway, just as Woody Allen never shows up to the Oscars but still gets nominated and is eligible to win, you don't have to show up at the Nobel awards ceremony to win the prize--it isn't like a "must be present to win" raffle drawing.


Oh Snowden going to Sweden would be hilarious, since it would completely ruin Julian Assange's bullshiat stories about not wanting to go to Sweden to be interviewed about his rape allegations if Snowden could just walk in there and back out again without an issue.
2014-01-29 04:47:51 PM
1 votes:

OrangeFree: Making all nations hyper suspicious of one another is "a fundamental requirement for peace?"


Yeah! How dare he make nations suspicious of one another by exposing the spying they were doing because they were suspicious of one another!
2014-01-29 04:47:21 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: As much as I dislike snowden's personality and motives for doing what he did as less than altruistic, they're right. Exposing wide-spread abuse of the NSA's telecom monitoring network and the US Government flagrantly violation it's citizens constitutional rights is a big deal, might be worthy of the prize.

However, as people have mentioned, a nomination does not mean he'll win it, and it's not really notable.


I'm curious how this constitutes a peace prize nomination.  He did nothing to stop war.  He did nothing to foster peaceful relations between warring enemies, negotiate treaties, work on ceasefires, improve race or gender relations in a genocidal situation, anything like that.

Pulled from Wiki - "Annually awarded to those that have 'done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses'".

Snowden did this... how?  Sure Obama was a political nomination based on the idea that having just about anyone other than a conservative as POTUS means the world is a better place, but at least that kinda-sorta made sense.  It wasn't Obama's prize so much as a prize to the U.S. for saying "hey, good job electing the guy who's not likely to make a bunch of new wars".  But I'm not seeing the Snowden angle for this.
2014-01-29 04:46:27 PM
1 votes:
Treasonous headline is treasonous
2014-01-29 04:42:29 PM
1 votes:

OrangeFree: Making all nations hyper suspicious of one another is "a fundamental requirement for peace?"

Honestly, has this planet gone completely nutty bananas?


That depends on who you believe.
2014-01-29 04:39:16 PM
1 votes:
"He has contributed to revealing the extreme level of surveillance by nations against other nations and of citizens," former Socialist Left Party minister Baard Vegar Solhjell

You know who else liked extreme levels of surveillance against Norway?

I just hope Obama does the right thing and returns Henry Kissinger's Peace Prize.

/that lying fat fark who left people behind in SE Asia
2014-01-29 04:39:12 PM
1 votes:

wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.


They have both done the exact same thing.  Not being George Bush.
2014-01-29 04:39:04 PM
1 votes:
Lookit tha funny man, Momma, his head assploded!

Come away, dear. That man's just a conservative. The cognitive dissonance of supporting law and order politics while hating and distrusting the government police state just became too much for his skull. When he tried to believe that the cops are never wrong and that the cops think of him as a terrorist at the same time, his brain just self-destructed in self-defence.
2014-01-29 03:49:49 PM
1 votes:
They've given it to people who have done much worse harm to the world.
2014-01-29 02:55:25 PM
1 votes:
They could put it at the bottom of a cereal box.
 
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