Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(RealClear)   Now *this* is how you troll: Edward Snowden nominated for Nobel Peace Prize   (realclear.com) divider line 316
    More: Hero, Nobel Peace Prize, trolls, Politics of Norway  
•       •       •

8408 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jan 2014 at 4:32 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



316 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-01-29 08:09:32 PM  

Publikwerks: Which is why he should come home and face the people he helped in a jury trial


Joke? Not a joke?
 
2014-01-29 08:13:04 PM  

Publikwerks: Snowden blew the whistle on a government he knew was overstepping its bounds. And god knows how much harm has already been done by their zeal, hypocrisy and violation of other people's rights.

Which is why he should come home and face the people he helped in a jury trial


"Should" being the keyword.

But the truth is that the government has been fighting any judicial review of the NSA's activities and Snowden would not get a fair trial.

And counting on public outcry to either change the outcome, overturn a conviction, or more likely, insist that Snowden get a fair trial in the first place after he gets tossed into Gitmo (or worse) isn't likely, either.

He's better off where he is until this country swallows some of its hubris and comes down to join the rest of us.
 
2014-01-29 08:17:16 PM  

whidbey: Snowden blew the whistle on a government he knew was overstepping its bounds.


You blow the whistle after finding a wrongdoing, attempting to fix it, and then going public when your complaints fall on deaf ears.  You don't set out to find wrongdoing, skip step two, and then claim victimhood at step three and get to call yourself a whistleblower, nor a "victim" for that matter.

I'm sorry if you find that patronizing, but when a child tells throws a tantrum when she gets punished for good reason, that's what happens.
 
2014-01-29 08:17:18 PM  

SirEattonHogg: So, you can't discern the difference between a private citizen who writes political articles critical of a government but neither works for the government nor has access to any sensitive information versus a person who signed a confidentiality agreement with his employer (a government), had access to a lot of state secrets and then fled to various foreign countries revealing sensitive state secrets along the way.

Okay, that makes sense.



Snowden is the very definition of a whistleblower.   His employer is engaged in illegal and unconstitutional behavior.   Given who his employer is (a contractor for the NSA) there is zero chance he can follow the usual legal channels.   The Whitehouse would slap an injunction of silence the moment he walked into the DOJ to blow that whistle.  Given there was no viable recourse within the Fourth Estate, he had to seek out the Fifth Estate.  Given the behavior of our Fifth Estate throughout the ramp up to the Iraq war and post Iraq reporting it would be clear that any domestic paper would turn him over to the authorities and shirk their job.  So, off he must go.

What he did was different than a political dissident.  The Chinese political dissident was making absolutely no impact on the regime he was fighting.
 
2014-01-29 08:25:37 PM  

Lsherm: whidbey: Snowden blew the whistle on a government he knew was overstepping its bounds.

You blow the whistle after finding a wrongdoing, attempting to fix it, and then going public when your complaints fall on deaf ears.  You don't set out to find wrongdoing, skip step two, and then claim victimhood at step three and get to call yourself a whistleblower, nor a "victim" for that matter.


Except he is a whistleblower. He isn't merely "calling himself one."

And if there is a distinct possibility that justice will not serve a US citizen attempting to defend his actions, then yes Snowden is a victim.

Neither example depends on your convoluted revisionist definitions.

I'm sorry if you find that patronizing, but when a child tells throws a tantrum when she gets punished for good reason, that's what happens.

It's cute you think this is an open and shut, cut and dried matter, and that there shouldn't be any protections in place for someone who basically showed the world the hypocritical kind of bullshiat our government is doing.
 
2014-01-29 08:28:27 PM  
Remember when the prize actually meant something?

Can you get much for it at the hock shop?
 
2014-01-29 08:34:48 PM  
Here's a transcript of today's threat assessment hearing in the Senate Intelligence Committee, in which Clapper and others denounce Snowden.  It is long and may make you angry.  There is a lot of fawning over the military men and their projects by senators Feinstein, King, Mikulski, Rockefeller and some others.  Only Wyden and Udall pose tough questions, and they are brushed aside with non-answers.  Udall pushes CIA director Brennan on detention and interrogation and is brushed aside.

Incredibly, Mikulski calls for the whole surveillance thing to go to the Supreme Court for an advisory opinion so we can put this whole thing behind us.  She has maybe never heard of the case or controversy requirement.
 
2014-01-29 08:34:53 PM  

cowgirl toffee: xanadian: oren0: Hard Nard: brantgoose: ...

/no, but seriously, there's no way Snowden escapes martyr status of the US gets his hands on him

Snowden is going to die of heavy metals poison when he's accidentally poked with an umbrella or a fountain pen.


The U.S. just doesn't assassinate highly public nonviolent people in that manner, for fear of losing face.  Instead, our government gives a mock/show trial and shoves them in a hole forever in either Guantanamo, Cuba or Florence, Colorado.

Rob Hanssen did a lot worse than Ed Snowden, and yet Rob is still rotting away in ADX Florence, rather than dead of radioactive polonium like the FSB uses.
 
2014-01-29 08:35:01 PM  

smoky2010: I can't wait until that little prick gets "Rosenburged".

\Thats what you do to traitors


I can't wait til you & your kind get Stazi'd.

/that's what you do to craven shiatizens
 
2014-01-29 08:41:19 PM  
Whether you like Snowden, I think everyone from all parts of the political spectrum can agree that Clapper needs to be put in jail.     He is either in a conspiracy to subvert the constitution with elements in the Whitehouse, or he has lied to his superiors and violated the law of his own accord.
 
2014-01-29 08:45:00 PM  
...and if I could spit in Feinstein's face, I would.  Absolutely nothing to lose in her utterly safe Senate seat and still plays along with criminals like this, which implies that she endorses it.  She is on the committees that have been briefed in private about the nastiest practices at the NSA.    She is a person who could have stopped it. She had real power in this.
 
2014-01-29 08:45:35 PM  

dbaggins: Whether you like Snowden, I think everyone from all parts of the political spectrum can agree that Clapper needs to be put in jail.     He is either in a conspiracy to subvert the constitution with elements in the Whitehouse, or he has lied to his superiors and violated the law of his own accord.


yep
 
2014-01-29 08:49:45 PM  
whidbey
It didn't happen

Umm it was last, what, May? Obama wanted to bomb Syria, Congress said no, and Putin brokered the deal that Syria would voluntarily "destroy" its chemical weapons. This happened, O'Brien.

The fact that we are still farking around the world stage is an indication of a much bigger problem than a cautious President.

Again with the assumption that Obama really truly means well but has his hands tied by The System.
Things make much more sense when you realize that the moderate-conservative Democrats like him and the Clintons really truly are more acolytes of Reagan than people like you prefer to believe. I mean, god damn, how can a person look at Obama calling Showden a criminal for releasing this important information which will endanger agents and vital security efforts, but which has no effect on the security agencies, and everything the agencies have been doing is legal, but we're going to review it and make changes, but those reviews have nothing to do with Snowden or the leaks, and not feel physically disgusted?


Deja_VooDoo
You could also argue that he made us less free by revealing an intelligence method. Sources and Methods are two of the most closely guarded secrets. Now that this is publically known, the NSA does not need to use nearly as much discretion when acting on data collected by the means Snowden revealed. They're still collecting the data. Now they can use it without fear of revealing how they got it

Or, we destroy the NSA
And the CIA and most of the FBI, while we're at it.
/the rest of the FBI can go later


Lsherm
I also don't appreciate blanket disclosure of state secrets without any concern for the damage it may cause, which is precisely the business Wikileaks is in.

Hmm, it seems like there should be a term for damage caused to innocent bystanders in the vicinity of an intended target.

he seems unwilling to accept that.

You're the one who's unwilling to accept the reality of the situation, which is that these security agencies are profoundly and fundamentally evil. I'm constantly amazed by the mental prowess people show in this feat of forcing themselves to ignore what is staring them plainly in the face.
 
2014-01-29 09:01:00 PM  

vudukungfu: dbaggins: Whether you like Snowden, I think everyone from all parts of the political spectrum can agree that Clapper needs to be put in jail.     He is either in a conspiracy to subvert the constitution with elements in the Whitehouse, or he has lied to his superiors and violated the law of his own accord.

yep


just like we should have Lewis Libby in jail.

Somehow after a certain level of power and connections you are immune to serving time in jail.
 
2014-01-29 09:01:51 PM  
At least Snowden did something

Zero on the other hand...
 
2014-01-29 09:07:50 PM  
Everyone in the House Intelligence Committee should stand trial for treason.
 
2014-01-29 09:16:43 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: Snowden didn't reveal anything anyone with a functioning brain stem knew since at least 2006.


 He just confirmed our fears. Snowden for president!
 
2014-01-29 09:17:19 PM  
not sure how he promoted peace... If anything he stirred the pot
 
2014-01-29 09:18:52 PM  

MrEricSir: Everyone in the House Intelligence Committee should stand trial for treason.


What would be the point? Hell, we let Dubya and his cronies walk - why would we let some questionable Representatives swing? And, keep in mind, it's not like Obama didn't know or sign off on some of this crap. Some of it was put in place during Dubya's regime, and Obama went, "yeah, that's good - keep that up."

The reason everyone wants Snowden nailed is because no one looks good on this one, politically speaking. Far too much of our government is complicit in what came out - not just the illegal foreign surveillance and the abominable overreach of domestic surveillance, but also the industrial espionage Snowden alluded to a couple of weeks ago. There's more in that paperwork than we know about, and that should scare all of us - the stuff we know about is just the stuff that the media's been willing to report.
 
2014-01-29 09:23:47 PM  

whidbey: t's cute you think this is an open and shut, cut and dried matter, and that there shouldn't be any protections in place for someone who basically showed the world the hypocritical kind of bullshiat our government is doing.


I already outlined two steps he skipped.  You are substituting the result for everything that happened before it, and in that reasoning you are the one who considers it open and shut.  I wouldn't even tell you that you need to reconsider your own opinion about the case except that you are clearly projecting.  I'll just follow this comment with a more egregious example of it:

RanDomino: You're the one who's unwilling to accept the reality of the situation, which is that these security agencies are profoundly and fundamentally evil. I'm constantly amazed by the mental prowess people show in this feat of forcing themselves to ignore what is staring them plainly in the face.


I'd assume that on any given day RanDomino considers him/herself an intelligent human being, but that's not an intelligent post.  May as well be shouting about the devil.

So go back, take some time to look at all the facts of the case that have been released, and then post.  I didn't call him a criminal, I said he was ignorant about what he did.  Apparently so are you.  What should be alarming to you is that you haven't bothered to do any research, you're just bleating like you think the security apparatus is.
 
2014-01-29 09:25:03 PM  
whidbey
Because anyone who supports the achievements of the past 5 years must be partisan hacks. All of us.

The problem is that people like you seem to believe, whether honestly or simply to go to bat for Dear Leader, that the "achievements" of the past 5 years are anywhere near sufficient. Or even existent. Can I point to Wisconsin, where the Democrats not only completely failed in every way imaginable (ooh, lesbian senator, well that makes up for it), but the political/organizational default strategy of "Umm I dunno, vote for the Democrats?" directly siphoned away energy and resources for a strategy that may have actually worked. What that strategy may have been I won't get into right now, other than to point out that the leftists and anarchists were saying that throwing all of our chips on the Democrats was an idiotic plan, and we were completely farking right.
And now look at the result. Union membership down 75% in the state. Other states are raising their minimum wages and it's going to take action at the federal level to change it in Wisconsin. Every environmental regulation is gradually being repealed. Now they're doing the ol' "Let's mail everyone a check during an election year" trick, never mind the structural debt. And it's because of you and people like you who have decided that the only kind of action that it's OK to take is volunteering to elect Democrats, because no matter how right-wing they are they're still better than the Republicans and that is literally the only thing that matters.


ISO15693
neither are the operatives he exposed who have since been executed

You know what? Good. I don't even care that you're on some bullshiat in saying this, and that you take it simply as an article of faith under the Cult of the State that the Very Serious Men Wearing Suits said this and therefore it must be true. Even if it is true, the odds are pretty solid that if these operatives are working for the US government then they were probably doing evil, or at least aiding and abetting it. No tears for them.

The tragedy of all of this is that there are thousands upon thousands of "good" people, doing their best to be honest and trustworthy, and doing their best to protect not only their own families, or even just the families of their own countrymen, but people doing their best to protect everyone -who had access to the same information, and realized that the best choice would be to protect that information in the best interests of everyone - the tragedy is that Snowden undermined all of their efforts, for his own misguided sense of idealism. He betrayed the trust of many, many, MANY "good" people doing their best to do "good" things for "good" reasons while forced to make extremely difficult sacrifices and choices to reach those "good" goals.

img.pandawhale.com


4tehsnowflakes
Just stopped by to say the NRA has filed an amicus brief in ACLU v. Clapper, the lawsuit made possible by the Verizon order disclosed by future laureate Snowden.

Ahahahahaha that is wonderful. Both because it's good and because of all the heads exploding across 'Merka.


Lsherm
You blow the whistle after finding a wrongdoing, attempting to fix it, and then going public when your complaints fall on deaf ears. You don't set out to find wrongdoing, skip step two, and then claim victimhood at step three and get to call yourself a whistleblower, nor a "victim" for that matter.

I'm sorry, but no one who claims that the US government has a remotely legitimate process for whistleblowers has any right to be calling anyone a "child".
 
2014-01-29 09:26:40 PM  

FormlessOne: but also the industrial espionage Snowden alluded to a couple of weeks ago


For any one Snowden, there are probably 40 slimy Booz-Allen-Hamilton rats that are *selling* their intelligence on the black market.

and nobody will touch them, since Booz-Allen-Hamilton probably has dirt on everyone.

They all want Snowden gone and off the radar before people start to wise up.
 
2014-01-29 09:29:25 PM  

Lsherm: I already outlined two steps he skipped.


Those two steps were not viable.   get it ?  The people that are assigned to protect a whistleblower through the proper channels are in on it in this case.

The Executive branch is not going to protect you from the other part of the Executive branch you are blowing the whistle on.  Not at this level of illegality and blowback.
 
2014-01-29 09:31:03 PM  

vodka: not sure how he promoted peace... If anything he stirred the pot


He revealed how we are being watched by the government. That promotes peace by helping prevent the suppression of dissent.
 
2014-01-29 09:34:43 PM  

sendtodave: smoky2010: sendtodave: SirEattonHogg: TheWhoppah:  wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States... to recognize our collective ability to see the fear mongering GOP asswipes for who they really were and reject their "bomb bomb Iran" preemptive-war policies.  We elected, as our president, a man named  Barack Hussein Obama just a few years after falling hook-line-and-sinker for the GOP/FoxNews lie machine regarding another man named Hussein.  I'm sure it took brass balls for Obama to even consider running for president but this award was for the everyday Americans that stood in line to vote for him.

Probably the dumbest post on Fark today.  Good jerb.

This. A gesture to the voters of the US?  Get the f--k out of here.

It was a plain and simple "f--k you" to Dubya.   I didn't like Bush, but it was akin to Europeans constantly whining about America this and that during the entire two terms of George Bush.  I don't think the American public needs a pat on the head from the Nobel Prize Committee for how it votes or condemnation either.

They think we do.

Have you ever met an actual European?   When you tell them you are from America, they start speaking slowly and simply, because they assume you are a child.

"That's good, American Johnny!  You finally learned that voting for Republican is wrong!  Oh, no, maybe not, you just allowed them to shut down your government.  Keep trying, Johnny!"

They just know that they are the real adults in the room.

So, democrats are adults and republicans children.. what about unaffiliated voters? I assume we are the group standing in the corner watching the adults and children try to one-up each other, laughing.

No, Europeans are adults and Americans are children.  This is obvious to them, based on the stupidity of those who we elect.

Good guess though!  Keep practicing, Johnny!


I always get a kick out of European elitism. I was born in Europe, traveled there quite extensively, and know a little bit about their history. These are the people that elected Margaret Thatcher, Charles De Gaule, and Hitler, for farks sake. So next time a European gives you shiat, point out that our insane leaders are only more prominent than theirs because our country is bigger than their continent.
 
2014-01-29 09:41:14 PM  

vodka: not sure how he promoted peace... If anything he stirred the pot


so dumb.   Want to know how you get a totalitarian regime started ?   and how you keep one alive and well ?


There was a time, perhaps several years ago now, where most of the population of Earth listed the USA as the greatest threat to peace.   When pressed for details in follow up polling most people felt that the USA was still a good example of how you should treat your *own* citizens.  If a country with the resources and influence and power like the USA starts down a road of allowing an organization like the KGB or the Stasi to operate against it's own citizens.....

For starters, democracy breaks down.  Even our pussy-version of democracy is the main impediment to a truly rapacious foreign policy.

The only pot that got stirred up here is amongst our allies.  and we are not in particular danger of a war breaking out with them.  Our enemies are not surprised at all by any of this.  In fact, it has settled them down if anything, since the old western allegiances are a bit muddled right now.
 
2014-01-29 09:46:17 PM  

jshine: whidbey: OH THE HUMANITY I MISS CHEESEBURGERS!"


Holy shiat, I ate at that McDonald's, and it was absolutely delicious. And it's always packed.
 
2014-01-29 09:52:17 PM  
Lsherm
So go back, take some time to look at all the facts of the case that have been released, and then post. I didn't call him a criminal, I said he was ignorant about what he did. Apparently so are you. What should be alarming to you is that you haven't bothered to do any research, you're just bleating like you think the security apparatus is.

I went back and looked again at what you said earlier. Let's take a look at this gem:

you have to believe that one person who stole snippets of a whole story is more correct than a collective of millions over the years

Would that be the same 'collective of millions' that gave us this gem?
2010.newsweek.com

No, you simply believe that the US is fundamentally Good, in your gut. Reality be damned. Facts be damned. Pattern recognition be damned.

The thing is, it's not that hard to understand how people who are themselves not particularly evil, and in fact are generally decent and caring individuals, can be turned into doing and supporting evil acts. There's even a book about it:
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-01-29 09:52:59 PM  

Finger51: Rent Party: He is no different than the asshole that let Valerie Plame's status be known.

Scooter Libby?

Rent Party: He effectively broke into your house, stole your filing cabinet and then pulled out that "questionable" tax return and declared you a tax evader.

I guess I don't see it that way. Him stealing my docs and declaring me a tax evader is a pretty huge stretch. My tax evasion doesn't equate to the US government spying on citizens, shiatting on the 4th, and absolutely destroying high levels of trust amongst our allies (Merkel et al)

nope. not even close.


You mean Angela "I totally swear I'm not a spy for the nazi party no matter what evidence you have" Merkel? You know, I've spoken to quite a few Germans about this recently, and most of them aren't terribly upset by the NSA tapping of her phone, and think it was probably deserved.
 
2014-01-29 10:27:26 PM  

Lusiphur: You mean Angela "I totally swear I'm not a spy for the nazi party no matter what evidence you have" Merkel? You know, I've spoken to quite a few Germans about this recently, and most of them aren't terribly upset by the NSA tapping of her phone, and think it was probably deserved.


All nations spy on every other, friendly or not.  The leader of a foreign government seems like a legitimate espionage target to me, unlike many of the other targets the NSA's been accused of listening to lately.

And Germany can spy on Obama if it wants.  Of course, either side is entitled to counterintelligence efforts.
 
2014-01-29 10:58:53 PM  
ISO15693: dittybopper: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

Moreso, actually:  Obama got his for, well, no one really knows, because he hadn't actually done much at that point except win an election.

You could argue that Snowden, by exposing the pervasive surveillance capabilities of the NSA, made us all a little bit more free, if only because we *KNOW* we're being surveilled now.

Well, he degraded the standing of the US in the eyes of the rest of the world, caused increased tensions with many allies (and non allies), and therefore the world in general. More or less the opposite of peace, IMHO.

People can say "Well, too bad, the US deserves all the fallout" but realistically, exposing the seamy underbelly of more-or-less-necessary (imho) government mechanisms of just one country, without providing the same info on all other countries for comparison, was not really a helpful thing to anyone, anywhere.

Anyone who has ever been married, or raised children, would know that the ideal of "it is *always* good to shine light on all information and behavior" is a flawed ideal. Ideals are great, openness is usually great - but with maturity perspective and experience, we all eventually learn that not everything ends up being nicely categorized into "good" and "evil" - and this is especially true when it comes to the choices that need to be made at the scale we are discussing. There are always sacrifices, and extremely difficult choices.

Snowdon was an idealist, and he knew that his leaks would appeal to other idealists who lack that perspective, to paranoids, and to others who fear the government - and he has their support now. But we, all of us, are most certainly not safer now - neither are the operatives he exposed who have since been executed - those same operatives who had been making their own sacrifices and difficult choices. And neither are those whom those operatives protected.

The tragedy of all of this is that there are thousands upon thousands of "good" people, doing their best to be honest and trustworthy, and doing their best to protect not only their own families, or even just the families of their own countrymen, but people doing their best to protect everyone -who had access to the same information, and realized that the best choice would be to protect that information in the best interests of everyone - the tragedy is that Snowden undermined all of their efforts, for his own misguided sense of idealism. He betrayed the trust of many, many, MANY "good" people doing their best to do "good" things for "good" reasons while forced to make extremely difficult sacrifices and choices to reach those "good" goals.
This isn't about one nation over another, or about patriotism or jingoism - all those who govern and protect all nations have to make similar choices - choices that would look equally bad if held up to the light outside of their normal context.
Snowden is no hero to thoughtful people.



One of the best, most thoughtful comments I've ever read on Fark.  Sadly, the entrenched know-it-alls won't listen to this profound truth because they refuse to hear it.
 
2014-01-29 11:08:14 PM  

RanDomino: Would that be the same 'collective of millions' that gave us this gem?


Oh no, I meant the millions that resulted in this:

The problem is that people like you seem to believe, whether honestly or simply to go to bat for Dear Leader, that the "achievements" of the past 5 years are anywhere near sufficient. Or even existent. Can I point to Wisconsin, where the Democrats not only completely failed in every way imaginable (ooh, lesbian senator, well that makes up for it), but the political/organizational default strategy of "Umm I dunno, vote for the Democrats?" directly siphoned away energy and resources for a strategy that may have actually worked. What that strategy may have been I won't get into right now, other than to point out that the leftists and anarchists were saying that throwing all of our chips on the Democrats was an idiotic plan, and we were completely farking right.
And now look at the result. Union membership down 75% in the state. Other states are raising their minimum wages and it's going to take action at the federal level to change it in Wisconsin. Every environmental regulation is gradually being repealed. Now they're doing the ol' "Let's mail everyone a check during an election year" trick, never mind the structural debt. And it's because of you and people like you who have decided that the only kind of action that it's OK to take is volunteering to elect Democrats, because no matter how right-wing they are they're still better than the Republicans and that is literally the only thing that matters.


Or, the copypasta.
 
2014-01-29 11:29:00 PM  

EdgeRunner: Evil does exist in the world. A non-violent movement could not have halted Hitler's armies. Negotiations cannot convince al Qaeda's leaders to lay down their arms. To say that force may sometimes be necessary is not a call to cynicism -- it is a recognition of history; the imperfections of man and the limits of reason.


And that had absolutely nothing to do with what I posted, nor what I was responding to, in any way.
 
2014-01-29 11:30:42 PM  

ISO15693: The tragedy of all of this is that there are thousands upon thousands of "good" people, doing their best to be honest and trustworthy, and doing their best to protect not only their own families, or even just the families of their own countrymen, but people doing their best to protect everyone -who had access to the same information, and realized that the best choice would be to protect that information in the best interests of everyone - the tragedy is that Snowden undermined all of their efforts, for his own misguided sense of idealism. He betrayed the trust of many, many, MANY "good" people doing their best to do "good" things for "good" reasons while forced to make extremely difficult sacrifices and choices to reach those "good" goals.



The road to hell is paved with "good" intentions.

The ends do not justify the means. We can change the laws to allow spying, we can change the constitution to allow it, but we did nether.

Why did we set up a framework for our government to work inside if we're going to ignore it for "good" goals?  Are our laws and the constitution worth so little, that we are willing to throw them out, just to gain some security?
 
2014-01-29 11:33:10 PM  

EdgeRunner: Negotiations cannot convince al Qaeda's leaders to lay down their arms. To say that force may sometimes be necessary is not a call to cynicism -- it is a recognition of history; the imperfections of man and the limits of reason.



Going off topic, but what do you, personally, think AL Qaeda wants from us?
 
2014-01-29 11:38:23 PM  

dbaggins: For any one Snowden, there are probably 40 slimy Booz-Allen-Hamilton rats that are *selling* their intelligence on the black market.

and nobody will touch them, since Booz-Allen-Hamilton probably has dirt on everyone.

They all want Snowden gone and off the radar before people start to wise up.


By "black market" you could mean political operatives.
I would be extremely surprised if we don't eventually find some sort of blackmail at the political level.
It may not be even more than a suspicion now, but 15 years from now, this will have come out.

/Yes, it took a criminal to expose the acts of the US government I believe to be criminal acts.
 
2014-01-29 11:42:34 PM  

Joe USer: EdgeRunner: Negotiations cannot convince al Qaeda's leaders to lay down their arms. To say that force may sometimes be necessary is not a call to cynicism -- it is a recognition of history; the imperfections of man and the limits of reason.


Going off topic, but what do you, personally, think AL Qaeda wants from us?


Pretty sure they're getting what they want. The US out of the way so they can focus on killing Shia/Alawite people.
 
2014-01-29 11:48:51 PM  
Well, it's been a joke for awhile now, I guess the committee just hates America more or less.
 
wee
2014-01-30 12:10:31 AM  
Anyone mentioned all the drone strikes yet?  How abut the ones that killed U.S. citizens with zero due process whatsoever?  Anyone mention that?  What about the people in gitmo that still haven't had charges filed against them?  Anyone mentioned a campaign promise from 2007 yet?
 
2014-01-30 12:32:06 AM  

xanadian: oren0: Hard Nard: brantgoose: Lookit tha funny man, Momma, his head assploded!

Come away, dear. That man's just a conservative. The cognitive dissonance of supporting law and order politics while hating and distrusting the government police state just became too much for his skull. When he tried to believe that the cops are never wrong and that the cops think of him as a terrorist at the same time, his brain just self-destructed in self-defence.

Conservative here, and I am a supporter of Snowden. Whether he wins the Nobel or not you have to admire a person who is willing to put his life, and maybe even the lives of his family and friends, to bring what he considers a violation of peoples rights into the light.

+1. In theory, anyone that supports liberty and a smaller government should applaud Snowden's actions. In practice, it seems that ordinary people across the political spectrum support Snowden, and politicians across the spectrum want him arrested and tried.

I liken it to the difference between the "correct" thing to do (obey the law) and the "right" thing to do (stick your neck out for other people's rights).  I don't think anyone on FARK knows the full breadth of what Snowden did or what the ultimate consequences will be on the world stage, so it's hard to judge fairly if what he did was "right" or not.  It sure the fark wasn't correct.

Personally, I wouldn't be saddened if he was arrested, tried and convicted.  If they strike him down, he shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

/no, but seriously, there's no way Snowden escapes martyr status of the US gets his hands on him


Meh, if a nation can be brought down by one guy then it deserves to burn.
 
2014-01-30 12:59:13 AM  

wee: Anyone mentioned all the drone strikes yet?  How abut the ones that killed U.S. citizens with zero due process whatsoever?  Anyone mention that?  What about the people in gitmo that still haven't had charges filed against them?  Anyone mentioned a campaign promise from 2007 yet?


But its not Fascism when Obummer does it.
 
2014-01-30 01:08:42 AM  

ISO15693: the tragedy is that Snowden undermined all of their efforts, for his own misguided sense of idealism. He betrayed the trust of many, many, MANY "good" people doing their best to do "good" things for "good" reasons while forced to make extremely difficult sacrifices and choices to reach those "good" goals.


No, no, no.    the reason you have to keep putting "good" in quotes is because you can't use the actual term good.

Those betrayed were criminals.  ta da!   I'm a criminal for my country.  Congratulations.  I've betrayed my constitution and every oath I took.  I'm a victim!  If you want to break our laws and be a patriot, guess what, it's now "ghost protocol".  Your service is irrelevant and you will be denied and jailed.   If you really love your country you will go to jail to save it.  THAT is the deal.   THEY chose it.

What you want to say it that is isn't fair.   Tough shiat.   Commit crimes, life gets yucky.

and has *anyone* had *any* hardship for knowlingly breaking the laws of this country ?

just Snowden.
 
2014-01-30 01:22:48 AM  
Your boss asks you to build a system to put American citizen text messages into a huge database for the NSA ?  YOU ARE AN ACCOMPLICE to a CRIME.

You write a software program to analyze patterns in cell phone traffic across all the Verizon cell phone users?  YOU ARE A CRIMINAL.  It doesn't matter if someone from the government told you to.  YOU ARE A CRIMINAL AND SHOULD STAND TRIAL.

Would you like to flip on your boss during the prosecution?  ok.  that's allowed in this land, but the fact remains that this is a plea bargain.  You committed a felony.  A federal felony.


awe, did Snowden tell everyone you were a federal felon and now you have a sad because you broke the law to be patriotic ?  well, that makes you a vigilante.  Want a plea bargain or jail time ?   You have the personal option to break the law for the good of your kinsmen and country, but that is only a factor in your sentencing, not your conviction.    There are, and I do mean this literally, tens of thousands of unindicted criminals right now working in the federal government and their private contractors.  Still today breaking the law.

None of them are being forced to stand and claim both their crime and their patriotism.   We just have a bunch of idiotic apologists that would rather destroy democracy than force these people to take the stand and plead this exact case.

I would salute any of them that would be willing to go even as far as Oliver North and tell Congress they broke the law and take full responsibility.

No, we don't do that in the USA anymore.  We can't even get someone to admit they put themselves before country and admit they broke the law.

It is all very sick.
 
2014-01-30 01:37:26 AM  

RanDomino: The fact that we are still farking around the world stage is an indication of a much bigger problem than a cautious President.

Again with the assumption that Obama really truly means well but has his hands tied by The System.
Things make much more sense when you realize that the moderate-conservative Democrats like him and the Clintons really truly are more acolytes of Reagan than people like you prefer to believe. I mean, god damn, how can a person look at Obama calling Showden a criminal for releasing this important information which will endanger agents and vital security efforts, but which has no effect on the security agencies, and everything the agencies have been doing is legal, but we're going to review it and make changes, but those reviews have nothing to do with Snowden or the leaks, and not feel physically disgusted?


Heh. God damn those "people like me" way way down there while you're way way UP there. Jesus, dude.

how can a person look at Obama calling Showden a criminal for releasing this important information which will endanger agents and vital security efforts, but which has no effect on the security agencies, and everything the agencies have been doing is legal, but we're going to review it and make changes, but those reviews have nothing to do with Snowden or the leaks, and not feel physically disgusted?

Um, Snowden did break the law and put this country at risk. You really think Obama's going to jump for joy? Frankly, whistleblowing shiat aside, it's an act of terror and espionage. Imagine if an Al Qaeda operative had done it.

Just pointing out that you're very one-sided as usual. And needlessly condescending of someone who shares many of your values. Again.
 
2014-01-30 02:04:24 AM  

whidbey: Imagine if an Al Qaeda operative had done it.


what, Al Qeada operatives provided proof of Americans violating American laws ?   heck, front page please.

what?  you say it's not "proof"  well, what would you call it ?  Here, we call it probably cause.   What prosecutor has stepped up ?

The data released and the source make it perfectly clear that we are not dealing with baseless accusations.


Saying "whistleblowing shiat aside" is a bit of a tell.    Why do you think we need a thing like whistleblowing?


I have earlier posts you have skipped in this day.
 
2014-01-30 02:07:52 AM  
The fact is, Snowden and the Guardian have been extremely careful in not releasing any information that would put one single life in danger.

You cite a counter-example and claim your Pulitzer.
 
2014-01-30 02:43:12 AM  
I didn't care when someone nominated him last year, and I still don't care this year. Tons of people have the right to nominate someone for the prize, but that doesn't give them a snowball's chance in hell of actually winning.

Not that it would matter if he did win, the whole thing's political. It's run by Sweden, and given exclusively to people Sweden promote. Like when it was given to Obama just for promising to do things. Which he never did. That was fun.
 
2014-01-30 06:13:05 AM  
Waaitaminnute - countries SPY on each other?
 
2014-01-30 08:04:31 AM  

Mouser: By that same logic, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg should be awarded one for ending the US monopoly on nuclear weapons.


JOOZE
 
2014-01-30 08:05:16 AM  

Headso: smoky2010: In hindsight, seeing what a crappy president Obama is, I'd take 4 more years of Dubya.

how old are you?


I was born during the Ford administration
 
Displayed 50 of 316 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report