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(RealClear)   Now *this* is how you troll: Edward Snowden nominated for Nobel Peace Prize   (realclear.com) divider line 316
    More: Hero, Nobel Peace Prize, trolls, Politics of Norway  
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8410 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jan 2014 at 4:32 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



316 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-01-29 02:14:20 PM  
There's no way he can accept this, right? It would be like Roman Polansky coming over to the US for an Oscar.
Right?
 
2014-01-29 02:21:00 PM  

tlars699: There's no way he can accept this, right? It would be like Roman Polansky coming over to the US for an Oscar.
Right?


Well, it's not like the award ceremony is in L.A. or anything--it's in Sweden.  But anyway, just as Woody Allen never shows up to the Oscars but still gets nominated and is eligible to win, you don't have to show up at the Nobel awards ceremony to win the prize--it isn't like a "must be present to win" raffle drawing.
 
2014-01-29 02:44:33 PM  
Being nominated for a Nobel Prize is not a notable thing, rarely is an actual thing, and is in no sense a newsworthy item. Reporters should farking know that by now.
 
2014-01-29 02:53:53 PM  
He deserves it just as much as Obama did.
 
2014-01-29 02:55:25 PM  
They could put it at the bottom of a cereal box.
 
2014-01-29 02:57:10 PM  
I've mentioned this at every other article talking about someone nominated for the Nobel Prize.

The Nobel Prize nominations are open to thousands of public academics and officials around the country and they are free to nominate whoever they wish. Most nominate good nominees. A few nominate their mothers. Others nominate nominees like Hitler (1939) and Stalin (1945 & 1948).
 
2014-01-29 03:49:49 PM  
They've given it to people who have done much worse harm to the world.
 
2014-01-29 04:04:32 PM  

ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.


Moreso, actually:  Obama got his for, well, no one really knows, because he hadn't actually done much at that point except win an election.

You could argue that Snowden, by exposing the pervasive surveillance capabilities of the NSA, made us all a little bit more free, if only because we *KNOW* we're being surveilled now.
 
2014-01-29 04:15:41 PM  
As much as I dislike snowden's personality and motives for doing what he did as less than altruistic, they're right. Exposing wide-spread abuse of the NSA's telecom monitoring network and the US Government flagrantly violation it's citizens constitutional rights is a big deal, might be worthy of the prize.

However, as people have mentioned, a nomination does not mean he'll win it, and it's not really notable.
 
wee
2014-01-29 04:23:29 PM  

ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.


More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.
 
2014-01-29 04:34:48 PM  
How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.
 
2014-01-29 04:37:11 PM  
Clearly a plot to arrest him........Simpsons did it.


static1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-01-29 04:37:31 PM  

hardinparamedic: As much as I dislike snowden's personality and motives for doing what he did as less than altruistic, they're right.


I'm not Snowden's personal fluffer or anything, but what are you basing your disdain for his "personality" on?

To me at least, Assange's ego and lust for attention (putting aside what he actually did) was light years more apparent from the get-go.
 
2014-01-29 04:37:54 PM  

dittybopper: Moreso, actually: Obama got his for, well, no one really knows, because he hadn't actually done much at that point except win an election.


He was prosecuting a war (or 2) at the time, so maybe it was just trolling?  After all, they also gave one to Kissinger, so you know they like to troll.
 
2014-01-29 04:38:59 PM  

wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.


I really have no issues with President Obama, I even voted for him both times. But I really did not understand why he won that award. It made no sense then and it makes even less sense now.

I hope Snowden really does win the Nobel Peace Prize. I'm not saying that what he did was right or wrong. I'm not even suggesting that he would be the most deserving of the prize, but it would at least keep the conversation going regarding privacy.
 
2014-01-29 04:39:04 PM  
Lookit tha funny man, Momma, his head assploded!

Come away, dear. That man's just a conservative. The cognitive dissonance of supporting law and order politics while hating and distrusting the government police state just became too much for his skull. When he tried to believe that the cops are never wrong and that the cops think of him as a terrorist at the same time, his brain just self-destructed in self-defence.
 
2014-01-29 04:39:12 PM  

wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.


They have both done the exact same thing.  Not being George Bush.
 
2014-01-29 04:39:16 PM  
"He has contributed to revealing the extreme level of surveillance by nations against other nations and of citizens," former Socialist Left Party minister Baard Vegar Solhjell

You know who else liked extreme levels of surveillance against Norway?

I just hope Obama does the right thing and returns Henry Kissinger's Peace Prize.

/that lying fat fark who left people behind in SE Asia
 
2014-01-29 04:40:26 PM  
Nice meta-troll, subby. Nominating him makes perfect sense; calling that action "trolling" is, itself, trolling. And I bet it'll be highly successful.

/bonus question: is this a troll?
 
2014-01-29 04:40:32 PM  

whidbey: How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.


Agreed. He is an American Hero.

You know Pete Seeger was once reviled by Americans because as usual, most of the country had it head up it's collective ass.

thought their illegal war in 'Nam was for the greater good or some such shiat.

Bunch of numbnutted assholes and that is the same as ever.

This man pointed to an out of control government that was and still is stripping us of our civil rights, and even human rights and needs to be called out on it and stopped.
 
2014-01-29 04:41:20 PM  
Making all nations hyper suspicious of one another is "a fundamental requirement for peace?"

Honestly, has this planet gone completely nutty bananas?
 
2014-01-29 04:42:10 PM  
So if I contact the various folks who are able to nominate, and ask for likes, it should be in the bag.
 
2014-01-29 04:42:26 PM  

Rent Party: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

They have both done the exact same thing.  Not being George Bush.


Snowden was better at it than Obama was.
 
2014-01-29 04:42:29 PM  

OrangeFree: Making all nations hyper suspicious of one another is "a fundamental requirement for peace?"

Honestly, has this planet gone completely nutty bananas?


That depends on who you believe.
 
2014-01-29 04:44:48 PM  
Does this mean he will at least get the home game?
 
2014-01-29 04:45:06 PM  

tylerdurden217: I really have no issues with President Obama, I even voted for him both times. But I really did not understand why he won that award. It made no sense then and it makes even less sense now.


It totally made sense. It was the world's way of thanking the US for not electing another stupid warmonger like Bush. Yes, I know we're still stuck cleaning up his legacy in Afghanistaq. But in the last 5 years, Obama has also somehow managed to deflect the hardliners' war hardon to attack Iran and North Korea, so that is actually saying something. Romney, had he been elected, would have been pushing for both.
 
2014-01-29 04:45:17 PM  

Cyberluddite: tlars699: There's no way he can accept this, right? It would be like Roman Polansky coming over to the US for an Oscar.
Right?

Well, it's not like the award ceremony is in L.A. or anything--it's in Sweden.  But anyway, just as Woody Allen never shows up to the Oscars but still gets nominated and is eligible to win, you don't have to show up at the Nobel awards ceremony to win the prize--it isn't like a "must be present to win" raffle drawing.


My guess is that if he could have gone to Sweden, he'd be in Sweden right now. He selected China, then Russia because of their lack of extradition treaties.
 
2014-01-29 04:45:41 PM  
Wow, I didn't even know he was a Democrat.
 
2014-01-29 04:46:27 PM  
Treasonous headline is treasonous
 
2014-01-29 04:46:46 PM  
Snowden didn't reveal anything anyone with a functioning brain stem knew since at least 2006.
 
2014-01-29 04:47:21 PM  

hardinparamedic: As much as I dislike snowden's personality and motives for doing what he did as less than altruistic, they're right. Exposing wide-spread abuse of the NSA's telecom monitoring network and the US Government flagrantly violation it's citizens constitutional rights is a big deal, might be worthy of the prize.

However, as people have mentioned, a nomination does not mean he'll win it, and it's not really notable.


I'm curious how this constitutes a peace prize nomination.  He did nothing to stop war.  He did nothing to foster peaceful relations between warring enemies, negotiate treaties, work on ceasefires, improve race or gender relations in a genocidal situation, anything like that.

Pulled from Wiki - "Annually awarded to those that have 'done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses'".

Snowden did this... how?  Sure Obama was a political nomination based on the idea that having just about anyone other than a conservative as POTUS means the world is a better place, but at least that kinda-sorta made sense.  It wasn't Obama's prize so much as a prize to the U.S. for saying "hey, good job electing the guy who's not likely to make a bunch of new wars".  But I'm not seeing the Snowden angle for this.
 
2014-01-29 04:47:21 PM  
weknowmemes.com
 
2014-01-29 04:47:24 PM  

OrangeFree: Making all nations hyper suspicious of one another is "a fundamental requirement for peace?"

Honestly, has this planet gone completely nutty bananas?



That's like saying Erin Brockovich was at fault for stirring people up by publicizing PG&E's toxic chemical releases.

Shooting the messenger is rarely the right response.
 
2014-01-29 04:47:51 PM  

OrangeFree: Making all nations hyper suspicious of one another is "a fundamental requirement for peace?"


Yeah! How dare he make nations suspicious of one another by exposing the spying they were doing because they were suspicious of one another!
 
2014-01-29 04:48:19 PM  
The Nobel Peace Prize is not the same thing as Time's Person of the Year.

Person of the Year can be anybody, just because they did something that everyone knows about.  Even really horrific things.  The Peace prize, by it's very deffinition, means that you have to do something that promotes peace.  It seems to me that Snowden has muddled things up and pissed people off.  Such to a point that new enemies have been made because of it.  And certainly, not more peace.
I don't see that really fitting the criteria.
 
2014-01-29 04:48:36 PM  
Next up, nominating the clowns in Atlanta who kept their employees and students from leaving until travel was impossible. It only happens once in a generation -- everyone remembers.
 
2014-01-29 04:48:47 PM  

brantgoose: Lookit tha funny man, Momma, his head assploded!

Come away, dear. That man's just a conservative. The cognitive dissonance of supporting law and order politics while hating and distrusting the government police state just became too much for his skull. When he tried to believe that the cops are never wrong and that the cops think of him as a terrorist at the same time, his brain just self-destructed in self-defence.


Conservative here, and I am a supporter of Snowden. Whether he wins the Nobel or not you have to admire a person who is willing to put his life, and maybe even the lives of his family and friends, to bring what he considers a violation of peoples rights into the light.
 
2014-01-29 04:48:49 PM  

Cyberluddite: tlars699: There's no way he can accept this, right? It would be like Roman Polansky coming over to the US for an Oscar.
Right?

Well, it's not like the award ceremony is in L.A. or anything--it's in Sweden.  But anyway, just as Woody Allen never shows up to the Oscars but still gets nominated and is eligible to win, you don't have to show up at the Nobel awards ceremony to win the prize--it isn't like a "must be present to win" raffle drawing.


nope, Norway.   Don't put this silliness on the Swedes!  The peace prize is very much an Oslo thing.
As it were the "real" Nobel prizes are given out based on merit...not what you wrote about in your grant proposal.
 
2014-01-29 04:49:03 PM  

Cyberluddite: tlars699: There's no way he can accept this, right? It would be like Roman Polansky coming over to the US for an Oscar.
Right?

Well, it's not like the award ceremony is in L.A. or anything--it's in Sweden.  But anyway, just as Woody Allen never shows up to the Oscars but still gets nominated and is eligible to win, you don't have to show up at the Nobel awards ceremony to win the prize--it isn't like a "must be present to win" raffle drawing.


Oh Snowden going to Sweden would be hilarious, since it would completely ruin Julian Assange's bullshiat stories about not wanting to go to Sweden to be interviewed about his rape allegations if Snowden could just walk in there and back out again without an issue.
 
2014-01-29 04:49:25 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: Snowden didn't reveal anything anyone with a functioning brain stem knew since at least 2006.


lolwut
 
2014-01-29 04:49:58 PM  

wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.


Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States... to recognize our collective ability to see the fear mongering GOP asswipes for who they really were and reject their "bomb bomb Iran" preemptive-war policies.  We elected, as our president, a man named  Barack Hussein Obama just a few years after falling hook-line-and-sinker for the GOP/FoxNews lie machine regarding another man named Hussein.  I'm sure it took brass balls for Obama to even consider running for president but this award was for the everyday Americans that stood in line to vote for him.
 
2014-01-29 04:50:20 PM  
I would like a yellow boat, please. With extra motors.
 
2014-01-29 04:51:23 PM  

dittybopper: Obama got his for, well, no one really knows


I figured it was for keeping Sarah Palin out of the White House.  Jesus, can you imagine?
 
2014-01-29 04:51:24 PM  

TheWhoppah: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States... to recognize our collective ability to see the fear mongering GOP asswipes for who they really were and reject their "bomb bomb Iran" preemptive-war policies. We elected, as our president, a man named Barack Hussein Obama just a few years after falling hook-line-and-sinker for the GOP/FoxNews lie machine regarding another man named Hussein. I'm sure it took brass balls for Obama to even consider running for president but this award was for the everyday Americans that stood in line to vote for him farking ridiculous.


FTFY
 
2014-01-29 04:52:19 PM  
I can't wait until that little prick gets "Rosenburged".

\Thats what you do to traitors
 
2014-01-29 04:52:29 PM  

whidbey: How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.


"Troll" in the headline in conjunction with the Hero tag. Now that's how you troll. How very meta.
 
2014-01-29 04:52:56 PM  

Hard Nard: brantgoose: Lookit tha funny man, Momma, his head assploded!

Come away, dear. That man's just a conservative. The cognitive dissonance of supporting law and order politics while hating and distrusting the government police state just became too much for his skull. When he tried to believe that the cops are never wrong and that the cops think of him as a terrorist at the same time, his brain just self-destructed in self-defence.

Conservative here, and I am a supporter of Snowden. Whether he wins the Nobel or not you have to admire a person who is willing to put his life, and maybe even the lives of his family and friends, to bring what he considers a violation of peoples rights into the light.


+1. In theory, anyone that supports liberty and a smaller government should applaud Snowden's actions. In practice, it seems that ordinary people across the political spectrum support Snowden, and politicians across the spectrum want him arrested and tried.
 
2014-01-29 04:55:29 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: dittybopper: Obama got his for, well, no one really knows

I figured it was for keeping Sarah Palin out of the White House.  Jesus, can you imagine?


We'd be in a nuclear war with Russia by now, what with them being right across the pond from Alaska and all.
 
2014-01-29 04:55:56 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: dittybopper: Obama got his for, well, no one really knows

I figured it was for keeping Sarah Palin out of the White House.  Jesus, can you imagine?


I'm sure he admires her. The woman shoots moose out of helicopters ferchrissakes.
 
2014-01-29 04:56:45 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: Snowden didn't reveal anything anyone with a functioning brain stem knew since at least 2006.


So he did nothing wrong then? You're ok with him coming back to America with no charges?
 
2014-01-29 04:57:01 PM  

whidbey: tylerdurden217: I really have no issues with President Obama, I even voted for him both times. But I really did not understand why he won that award. It made no sense then and it makes even less sense now.

It totally made sense. It was the world's way of thanking the US for not electing another stupid warmonger like Bush. Yes, I know we're still stuck cleaning up his legacy in Afghanistaq. But in the last 5 years, Obama has also somehow managed to deflect the hardliners' war hardon to attack Iran and North Korea, so that is actually saying something. Romney, had he been elected, would have been pushing for both.


He wanted to go in to Syria and only didnt when the entire country basically said NO. So keep f-ing that chicken. He has killed more innocents by drone than Bush, he has waged war on journalists and whistleblowers never before seen by US presidents. He has presided over ALL of the NSA BS that we keep learning about. And he continues to go on TV and tell everyone it is all legal and above board only to have his own appointed review board turn around and say he is full of crap.

Obama is worse than Bush for the simple reason that under his administration all the things that democrats railed against under a republican administration have become normalized and accepted operating procedure under Obama.

He also assassinated American citizens including a 16 year old boy without due process afforded to them by the constitution. Funny how that fact gets glossed over by the "cult"
 
2014-01-29 04:57:13 PM  
Just because Snowden is guilty doesn't mean the NSA is innocent. They are both guilty of different shiat.
 
2014-01-29 04:57:30 PM  
img.fark.net
Wow, can we get this to over 4,000? The B.O. Nobel thread went down in the anals of Fark.

/(Ignore the thread badge on the right, I don't have time to fix it right now.)

//Yes, the missing n was on purpose
 
2014-01-29 04:57:50 PM  

whidbey: Marcus Aurelius: dittybopper: Obama got his for, well, no one really knows

I figured it was for keeping Sarah Palin out of the White House.  Jesus, can you imagine?

I'm sure he admires her. The woman shoots moose out of helicopters ferchrissakes.



It would be hilarious if she had been elected -- if only to see her interact with Putin.  I imagine it would degenerate into a drinking contest followed by a drunken brawl...
 
2014-01-29 04:58:35 PM  

TheWhoppah: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States... to recognize our collective ability to see the fear mongering GOP asswipes for who they really were and reject their "bomb bomb Iran" preemptive-war policies.  We elected, as our president, a man named  Barack Hussein Obama just a few years after falling hook-line-and-sinker for the GOP/FoxNews lie machine regarding another man named Hussein.  I'm sure it took brass balls for Obama to even consider running for president but this award was for the everyday Americans that stood in line to vote for him.


Probably the dumbest post on Fark today.  Good jerb.
 
2014-01-29 04:58:55 PM  
I'm nominating:
www.bbc.co.uk
 
2014-01-29 04:59:14 PM  

RminusQ: Being nominated for a Nobel Prize is not a notable thing, rarely is an actual thing, and is in no sense a newsworthy item. Reporters should farking know that by now.


I don't think reporters care that some IQ 80 on the Internet thinks that.
 
2014-01-29 04:59:24 PM  
You know who else was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize?
 
2014-01-29 04:59:33 PM  

Nemo's Brother: Bith Set Me Up: Snowden didn't reveal anything anyone with a functioning brain stem knew since at least 2006.

So he did nothing wrong then? You're ok with him coming back to America with no charges?


Like I said, just because Snowden is guilty doesn't mean the NSA is innocent.
 
2014-01-29 05:01:03 PM  

kindms: He wanted to go in to Syria and only didnt when the entire country basically said NO.


Bullshiat.

So keep f-ing that chicken

You're doing a fine job yourself.

He has killed more innocents by drone than Bush, he has waged war on journalists and whistleblowers never before seen by US presidents. He has presided over ALL of the NSA BS that we keep learning about. And he continues to go on TV and tell everyone it is all legal and above board only to have his own appointed review board turn around and say he is full of crap.

Cool story, bro.

Obama is worse than Bush for the simple reason that under his administration all the things that democrats railed against under a republican administration have become normalized and accepted operating procedure under Obama.

He also assassinated American citizens including a 16 year old boy without due process afforded to them by the constitution. Funny how that fact gets glossed over by the "cult"


Haha no. Thanks for the derp, dude. That was a healthy dose.
 
2014-01-29 05:01:07 PM  
This headline is a troll within a troll within a troll. There's nothing trolling about nominating Snowden and there's nothing newsworthy about it, either. It's Trollception.
 
wee
2014-01-29 05:01:08 PM  

TheWhoppah: Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States


If Obama deserves it (an award he feels he didn't deserve) then Snowden really deserves it.
 
2014-01-29 05:01:23 PM  

kindms: He wanted to go in to Syria and only didnt when the entire country basically said NO.


...but, had he been Bush, he'd have attacked anyway.

If there's one thing you can admire about Bush -- he's steady. You know where he stands. He believes the same thing Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday.
 
2014-01-29 05:01:58 PM  

Stinkyy: Wow, can we get this to over 4,000? The B.O. Nobel thread went down in the anals of Fark.

/(Ignore the thread badge on the right, I don't have time to fix it right now.)

//Yes, the missing n was on purpose


Anals? The word you were looking for is "annals"
 
2014-01-29 05:02:11 PM  

jfarkinB: Nice meta-troll, subby. Nominating him makes perfect sense; calling that action "trolling" is, itself, trolling. And I bet it'll be highly successful.

/bonus question: is this a troll?


IT'S TURTLES TROLLS, ALL THE WAY DOWN
 
2014-01-29 05:02:48 PM  

Cyberluddite: tlars699: There's no way he can accept this, right? It would be like Roman Polansky coming over to the US for an Oscar.
Right?

Well, it's not like the award ceremony is in L.A. or anything--it's in Sweden.  But anyway, just as Woody Allen never shows up to the Oscars but still gets nominated and is eligible to win, you don't have to show up at the Nobel awards ceremony to win the prize--it isn't like a "must be present to win" raffle drawing.


Haven't there been some winners who couldn't collect because they were rotting away in a cell as a political prisoner.
 
2014-01-29 05:03:04 PM  

whidbey: kindms: He wanted to go in to Syria and only didnt when the entire country basically said NO.

Bullshiat.

So keep f-ing that chicken

You're doing a fine job yourself.

He has killed more innocents by drone than Bush, he has waged war on journalists and whistleblowers never before seen by US presidents. He has presided over ALL of the NSA BS that we keep learning about. And he continues to go on TV and tell everyone it is all legal and above board only to have his own appointed review board turn around and say he is full of crap.

Cool story, bro.

Obama is worse than Bush for the simple reason that under his administration all the things that democrats railed against under a republican administration have become normalized and accepted operating procedure under Obama.

He also assassinated American citizens including a 16 year old boy without due process afforded to them by the constitution. Funny how that fact gets glossed over by the "cult"

Haha no. Thanks for the derp, dude. That was a healthy dose.


So do you deny his claims about Obama then?
 
2014-01-29 05:03:26 PM  

kindms: Obama is worse than Bush for the simple reason that under his administration all the things that democrats railed against under a republican administration have become normalized and accepted operating procedure under Obama.


Well I have to give Obama credit: he campaigned hard on closing the Guantanamo prison, and he really delivered on that promise.
 
2014-01-29 05:03:52 PM  

JerseyTim: This headline is a troll within a troll within a troll. There's nothing trolling about nominating Snowden and there's nothing newsworthy about it, either. It's Trollception.


BWAAAAAAAAAAM
 
2014-01-29 05:04:03 PM  

Nemo's Brother: Probably the dumbest post on Fark today. Good jerb.


How is that dumb?  It's obvious to anyone who can walk and breathe at the same that while it was awarded to him, it wasn't about what he did, it was about what he represented in the U.S. - a turn away from warmongering and choosing to end two wars and institute foreign policy that wasn't about aggression and antagonism.
 
m00
2014-01-29 05:04:14 PM  
I hope he wins.

I would love to see the politicians trying to condemn china for jailing its nobel price winners, but justify (trying to) jail snowden.
 
2014-01-29 05:04:28 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: dittybopper: Obama got his for, well, no one really knows

I figured it was for keeping Sarah Palin out of the White House.  Jesus, can you imagine?


I don't believe anyone truly can
 
2014-01-29 05:04:38 PM  

MadMattressMack: You know who else was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize?


No. But I want to nominate this guy...

imagizer.imageshack.us

His favorite sport is cat.
 
2014-01-29 05:05:11 PM  

wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.


Obama bombed the moon...peace through strength Pax Romana style.
 
2014-01-29 05:05:30 PM  
TheWhoppahwee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States... to recognize our collective ability to see the fear mongering GOP asswipes for who they really were and reject their "bomb bomb Iran" preemptive-war policies.  We elected, as our president, a man named  Barack Hussein Obama just a few years after falling hook-line-and-sinker for the GOP/FoxNews lie machine regarding another man named Hussein.  I'm sure it took brass balls for Obama to even consider running for president but this award was for the everyday Americans that stood in line to vote for him.

Probably the dumbest post on Fark today.  Good jerb.


This. A gesture to the voters of the US?  Get the f--k out of here.

It was a plain and simple "f--k you" to Dubya.   I didn't like Bush, but it was akin to Europeans constantly whining about America this and that during the entire two terms of George Bush.  I don't think the American public needs a pat on the head from the Nobel Prize Committee for how it votes or condemnation either.
 
2014-01-29 05:05:40 PM  

Nemo's Brother: whidbey: kindms: He wanted to go in to Syria and only didnt when the entire country basically said NO.

Bullshiat.

So keep f-ing that chicken

You're doing a fine job yourself.

He has killed more innocents by drone than Bush, he has waged war on journalists and whistleblowers never before seen by US presidents. He has presided over ALL of the NSA BS that we keep learning about. And he continues to go on TV and tell everyone it is all legal and above board only to have his own appointed review board turn around and say he is full of crap.

Cool story, bro.

Obama is worse than Bush for the simple reason that under his administration all the things that democrats railed against under a republican administration have become normalized and accepted operating procedure under Obama.

He also assassinated American citizens including a 16 year old boy without due process afforded to them by the constitution. Funny how that fact gets glossed over by the "cult"

Haha no. Thanks for the derp, dude. That was a healthy dose.

So do you deny his claims about Obama then?


Yeah. First of all, anyone who refers to the voting public who overwhelmingly elected Obama twice as a "cult" has some reality problems.
 
2014-01-29 05:05:51 PM  

i.bullfax.com

Courtesy of williambanzai7 - http://williambanzai7.blogspot.com/

 
2014-01-29 05:06:19 PM  

GanjSmokr: Rent Party: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

They have both done the exact same thing.  Not being George Bush.

Snowden was better at it than Obama was.


Fair point.  But no one knew that at the time.
 
2014-01-29 05:07:21 PM  

m00: I hope he wins.

I would love to see the politicians trying to condemn china for jailing its nobel price winners, but justify (trying to) jail snowden.


I love how just because Snowden blew the whistle he is somehow automagically immune from prosecution.

Meanwhile, keep up the false equivalence.
 
2014-01-29 05:08:37 PM  

oren0: Hard Nard: brantgoose: Lookit tha funny man, Momma, his head assploded!

Come away, dear. That man's just a conservative. The cognitive dissonance of supporting law and order politics while hating and distrusting the government police state just became too much for his skull. When he tried to believe that the cops are never wrong and that the cops think of him as a terrorist at the same time, his brain just self-destructed in self-defence.

Conservative here, and I am a supporter of Snowden. Whether he wins the Nobel or not you have to admire a person who is willing to put his life, and maybe even the lives of his family and friends, to bring what he considers a violation of peoples rights into the light.

+1. In theory, anyone that supports liberty and a smaller government should applaud Snowden's actions. In practice, it seems that ordinary people across the political spectrum support Snowden, and politicians across the spectrum want him arrested and tried.


I liken it to the difference between the "correct" thing to do (obey the law) and the "right" thing to do (stick your neck out for other people's rights).  I don't think anyone on FARK knows the full breadth of what Snowden did or what the ultimate consequences will be on the world stage, so it's hard to judge fairly if what he did was "right" or not.  It sure the fark wasn't correct.

Personally, I wouldn't be saddened if he was arrested, tried and convicted.  If they strike him down, he shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

/no, but seriously, there's no way Snowden escapes martyr status of the US gets his hands on him
 
2014-01-29 05:08:44 PM  

whidbey: I'm sure he admires her. The woman shoots moose out of helicopters ferchrissakes.


As God is my witness, I thought mooses could fly. Youbetcha. Also.
 
2014-01-29 05:09:03 PM  

MadMattressMack: You know who else was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize?


I find it funny that the person whose namesake is the prize is ultimately responsible for god knows many deaths through the use of explosives.
 
2014-01-29 05:10:08 PM  
whidbey
How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.


I agree.

/now that's how you troll
 
2014-01-29 05:10:18 PM  

kindms: Funny how that fact gets glossed over by the "cult"


Spoken by someone 100% open minded, I am sure.
 
2014-01-29 05:10:44 PM  
If Snowden actually wins it, America will have ended.
 
2014-01-29 05:11:28 PM  
m00:

I hope he wins.

I would love to see the politicians trying to condemn china for jailing its nobel price winners, but justify (trying to) jail snowden.



So, you can't discern the difference between a private citizen who writes political articles critical of a government but neither works for the government nor has access to any sensitive information versus a person who signed a confidentiality agreement with his employer (a government), had access to a lot of state secrets and then fled to various foreign countries revealing sensitive state secrets along the way.

Okay, that makes sense.
 
2014-01-29 05:11:34 PM  

xanadian: oren0: Hard Nard: brantgoose: ...

/no, but seriously, there's no way Snowden escapes martyr status of the US gets his hands on him


Snowden is going to die of heavy metals poison when he's accidentally poked with an umbrella or a fountain pen.
 
2014-01-29 05:12:40 PM  
Good
 
2014-01-29 05:13:28 PM  

whidbey: I love how just because Snowden blew the whistle he is somehow automagically immune from prosecution.

Meanwhile, keep up the false equivalence.


There's a difference between wanting him tried for his crimes and demands he be assassinated.   I think he should be tried for leaking but the claims that the US should kill him with a drone strike or sniper are moronic.
 
2014-01-29 05:14:25 PM  

RanDomino: whidbey
How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.

I agree.

/now that's how you troll


How is admitting I'm right once in a while despite your usual superior position "trolling?"
 
2014-01-29 05:14:28 PM  
Epic trolling for the win, eh subby?
 
2014-01-29 05:14:28 PM  
For the folks who don't like Snowden due to 'his personality', or narcissism, or 'being a prick':

How did you arrive at those viewpoints?  I don't recall a ton of interviews.  I may have missed them through.

If you answer is wrapped up in the crime, discount my question.  Trying to figure out how folks have psychoanalyzed Snowden as a public figure like they were neighbors.
 
2014-01-29 05:15:25 PM  
whidbey
Obama has also somehow managed to deflect the hardliners' war hardon to attack Iran and North Korea

Let me guess- his push to bomb Syria was 5th-dimensional-chess, because he knew that it would fail so hard as to nail down the coffin on any further large military engagements in the Middle East, right?


Khellendros
I'm not seeing the Snowden angle for this.

Knowing exactly how one of the most miltaristic and by far most powerful governments on Earth is manipulating the world in order to solidify power for its elite ruling class has made the planet objectively safer. Think of all the activists and dissidents in corrupt third-world hellholes like India, Ethiopia, and Louisiana who have or are drastically altered their online security and communication because of him.
 
2014-01-29 05:15:39 PM  

SirEattonHogg: m00:

I hope he wins.

I would love to see the politicians trying to condemn china for jailing its nobel price winners, but justify (trying to) jail snowden.


So, you can't discern the difference between a private citizen who writes political articles critical of a government but neither works for the government nor has access to any sensitive information versus a person who signed a confidentiality agreement with his employer (a government), had access to a lot of state secrets and then fled to various foreign countries revealing sensitive state secrets along the way.

Okay, that makes sense.



He broke the law, certainly, but legal/illegal is not the same thing as right/wrong.  If the early Americans thought that way, there would be no United States (since the colonies were the rightful property of Great Britain).  We exist as a nation because of treason.
 
2014-01-29 05:15:43 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: whidbey: I love how just because Snowden blew the whistle he is somehow automagically immune from prosecution.

Meanwhile, keep up the false equivalence.

There's a difference between wanting him tried for his crimes and demands he be assassinated.   I think he should be tried for leaking but the claims that the US should kill him with a drone strike or sniper are moronic.


Who the hell is advocating that? Drew's Heineken Troll Cabal?
 
2014-01-29 05:16:58 PM  

RanDomino: corrupt third-world hellholes like India, Ethiopia, and Louisiana


www.hondagrom.net
 
2014-01-29 05:17:15 PM  

vudukungfu: whidbey: How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.

Agreed. He is an American Hero.

You know Pete Seeger was once reviled by Americans because as usual, most of the country had it head up it's collective ass.

thought their illegal war in 'Nam was for the greater good or some such shiat.

Bunch of numbnutted assholes and that is the same as ever.

This man pointed to an out of control government that was and still is stripping us of our civil rights, and even human rights and needs to be called out on it and stopped.


Can there really be such thing as an illegal war?
 
2014-01-29 05:18:09 PM  

BgJonson79: Can there really be such thing as an illegal war?


Only if you lose.
 
2014-01-29 05:18:52 PM  

SirEattonHogg: TheWhoppah:  wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States... to recognize our collective ability to see the fear mongering GOP asswipes for who they really were and reject their "bomb bomb Iran" preemptive-war policies.  We elected, as our president, a man named  Barack Hussein Obama just a few years after falling hook-line-and-sinker for the GOP/FoxNews lie machine regarding another man named Hussein.  I'm sure it took brass balls for Obama to even consider running for president but this award was for the everyday Americans that stood in line to vote for him.

Probably the dumbest post on Fark today.  Good jerb.

This. A gesture to the voters of the US?  Get the f--k out of here.

It was a plain and simple "f--k you" to Dubya.   I didn't like Bush, but it was akin to Europeans constantly whining about America this and that during the entire two terms of George Bush.  I don't think the American public needs a pat on the head from the Nobel Prize Committee for how it votes or condemnation either.


They think we do.

Have you ever met an actual European?   When you tell them you are from America, they start speaking slowly and simply, because they assume you are a child.

"That's good, American Johnny!  You finally learned that voting for Republican is wrong!  Oh, no, maybe not, you just allowed them to shut down your government.  Keep trying, Johnny!"

They just know that they are the real adults in the room.
 
2014-01-29 05:19:44 PM  

BafflerMeal: For the folks who don't like Snowden due to 'his personality', or narcissism, or 'being a prick':

How did you arrive at those viewpoints?  I don't recall a ton of interviews.  I may have missed them through.

If you answer is wrapped up in the crime, discount my question.  Trying to figure out how folks have psychoanalyzed Snowden as a public figure like they were neighbors.


After bashing the US he said that he was glad he was living in Russia and had the support of China because of their stellar record of protecting Human Rights.

He's a disingenuous arsehole.
 
2014-01-29 05:20:04 PM  
Odd argument - "the Nobel prize is a joke, means nothing" - then proceeds to argue for two hours that that one person or another can't POSSIBLY deserve one, because reasons.
If it's a joke,and means nothing, why are you still talking?
 
2014-01-29 05:20:07 PM  

umad: OrangeFree: Making all nations hyper suspicious of one another is "a fundamental requirement for peace?"

Yeah! How dare he make nations suspicious of one another by exposing the spying they were doing because they were suspicious of one another!


I said hyper suspicious, to the determent of foreign relations. We all know everyone spies on everyone, but this whole thing created an even wackier layer of mistrust.
 
2014-01-29 05:20:46 PM  

jshine: OrangeFree: Making all nations hyper suspicious of one another is "a fundamental requirement for peace?"

Honestly, has this planet gone completely nutty bananas?


That's like saying Erin Brockovich was at fault for stirring people up by publicizing PG&E's toxic chemical releases.

Shooting the messenger is rarely the right response.


Not really a fair comparison. What part of exposing PG&E caused major strain to diplomatic relations again? Not shooting the messenger - but sometimes the messenger's a dick and delivered the message with dickish motives.
 
2014-01-29 05:20:53 PM  

BafflerMeal: For the folks who don't like Snowden due to 'his personality', or narcissism, or 'being a prick':

How did you arrive at those viewpoints?  I don't recall a ton of interviews.  I may have missed them through.

If you answer is wrapped up in the crime, discount my question.  Trying to figure out how folks have psychoanalyzed Snowden as a public figure like they were neighbors.


He looks like the douchey IT guy that we all know.  That's enough.
 
2014-01-29 05:20:57 PM  

RanDomino: whidbey
Obama has also somehow managed to deflect the hardliners' war hardon to attack Iran and North Korea

Let me guess- his push to bomb Syria was 5th-dimensional-chess, because he knew that it would fail so hard as to nail down the coffin on any further large military engagements in the Middle East, right?


It didn't happen, and also noticeably absent were the lies and manipulation of Congress as seen in the Bush years. And a simple Googling shows a bunch of right-wing nutjob blogs agree with you, so to me that's a red flag.
 
2014-01-29 05:21:18 PM  

Khellendros: Nemo's Brother: Probably the dumbest post on Fark today. Good jerb.

How is that dumb?  It's obvious to anyone who can walk and breathe at the same that while it was awarded to him, it wasn't about what he did, it was about what he represented in the U.S. - a turn away from warmongering and choosing to end two wars and institute foreign policy that wasn't about aggression and antagonism.


Evil does exist in the world.  A non-violent movement could not have halted Hitler's armies.  Negotiations cannot convince al Qaeda's leaders to lay down their arms.  To say that force may sometimes be necessary is not a call to cynicism -- it is a recognition of history; the imperfections of man and the limits of reason.
 
2014-01-29 05:21:24 PM  
www.portlandmercury.com
 
2014-01-29 05:21:39 PM  

kindms: He wanted to go in to Syria and only didnt when the entire country basically said NO. So keep f-ing that chicken. He has killed more innocents by drone than Bush, he has waged war on journalists and whistleblowers never before seen by US presidents. He has presided over ALL of the NSA BS that we keep learning about. And he continues to go on TV and tell everyone it is all legal and above board only to have his own appointed review board turn around and say he is full of crap.

Obama is worse than Bush for the simple reason that under his administration all the things that democrats railed against under a republican administration have become normalized and accepted operating procedure under Obama.

He also assassinated American citizens including a 16 year old boy without due process afforded to them by the constitution. Funny how that fact gets glossed over by the "cult"


img.fark.net
 
2014-01-29 05:21:41 PM  

jso2897: Odd argument - "the Nobel prize is a joke, means nothing" - then proceeds to argue for two hours that that one person or another can't POSSIBLY deserve one, because reasons.
If it's a joke,and means nothing, why are you still talking?


The Nobel prize is also sour.
 
2014-01-29 05:21:55 PM  

sendtodave: Have you ever met an actual European?   When you tell them you are from America, they start speaking slowly and simply, because they assume you are a child.


unless you are a black basketball player, then they throw bananas at you while making monkey noises.
 
2014-01-29 05:22:03 PM  
jshine:
He broke the law, certainly, but legal/illegal is not the same thing as right/wrong.  If the early Americans thought that way, there would be no United States (since the colonies were the rightful property of Great Britain).  We exist as a nation because of treason.

I think on the one hand, he had the moral high ground when he whistle blew on the spying of US citizens.  But, there is the big question of how much and how damaging is the info he gave which ended up with various foreign powers.  Maybe it's not - I don't know.

We spy on foriegn countries and foreign citizens and they all know that (and they spy back presumably - otherwise they are stupid).  I and most US citizens (I would think) have zero problems with that.

So, "hero"?  I'm not so sure.
 
2014-01-29 05:22:12 PM  

sendtodave: SirEattonHogg: TheWhoppah:  wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States... to recognize our collective ability to see the fear mongering GOP asswipes for who they really were and reject their "bomb bomb Iran" preemptive-war policies.  We elected, as our president, a man named  Barack Hussein Obama just a few years after falling hook-line-and-sinker for the GOP/FoxNews lie machine regarding another man named Hussein.  I'm sure it took brass balls for Obama to even consider running for president but this award was for the everyday Americans that stood in line to vote for him.

Probably the dumbest post on Fark today.  Good jerb.

This. A gesture to the voters of the US?  Get the f--k out of here.

It was a plain and simple "f--k you" to Dubya.   I didn't like Bush, but it was akin to Europeans constantly whining about America this and that during the entire two terms of George Bush.  I don't think the American public needs a pat on the head from the Nobel Prize Committee for how it votes or condemnation either.

They think we do.

Have you ever met an actual European?   When you tell them you are from America, they start speaking slowly and simply, because they assume you are a child.

"That's good, American Johnny!  You finally learned that voting for Republican is wrong!  Oh, no, maybe not, you just allowed them to shut down your government.  Keep trying, Johnny!"

They just know that they are the real adults in the room.


So, democrats are adults and republicans children.. what about unaffiliated voters? I assume we are the group standing in the corner watching the adults and children try to one-up each other, laughing.
 
2014-01-29 05:22:35 PM  
Well Gore got one for no reason, so why not?
 
2014-01-29 05:22:46 PM  

jso2897: Odd argument - "the Nobel prize is a joke, means nothing" - then proceeds to argue for two hours that that one person or another can't POSSIBLY deserve one, because reasons.
If it's a joke,and means nothing, why are you still talking?


BECAUSE ONLY WHITE PEOPLE WHO GO ALONG WITH WHAT THE US DOES SHOULD GET IT
NOT ANYONE ELSE.

Sheesh.
 
2014-01-29 05:23:56 PM  

kindms: whidbey: tylerdurden217: I really have no issues with President Obama, I even voted for him both times. But I really did not understand why he won that award. It made no sense then and it makes even less sense now.

It totally made sense. It was the world's way of thanking the US for not electing another stupid warmonger like Bush.


Was Bush a warmonger? He came across as the mildly retarded frontman for a cabal of warmongers.

You know, little things like having difficulty speaking in public and generally making a tit of himself, while god knows who actually planned the wars.

Yes, I know we're still stuck cleaning up his legacy in Afghanistaq. But in the last 5 years, Obama has also somehow managed to deflect the hardliners' war hardon to attack Iran and North Korea, so that is actually saying something. Romney, had he been elected, would have been pushing for both.

He wanted to go in to Syria and only didnt when the entire country basically said NO. So keep f-ing that chicken. He has killed more innocents by drone than Bush,


How many Americans have been killed in the wars started in Bush's reign?

How many non-American civilians have been killed in the same conflicts?

he has waged war on journalists and whistleblowers never before seen by US presidents.

Nixon doctrine.

And do you think a different president would have handled Assange and Snowden differently?

He has presided over ALL of the NSA BS that we keep learning about.

Bush didn't?

And he continues to go on TV and tell everyone it is all legal and above board only to have his own appointed review board turn around and say he is full of crap.

Obama is worse than Bush for the simple reason that under his administration all the things that democrats railed against under a republican administration have become normalized and accepted operating procedure under Obama.


Both sides are bad, so Bush is better?

Makes you sound kind of racist, dude.

He also assassinated American citizens including a 16 year old boy without due process afforded to them by the constitution. Funny how that fact gets glossed over by the "cult"

Yeah... your post leaves me thinking that if anyone's a member of a "cult"... it's you.
 
2014-01-29 05:24:09 PM  

RminusQ: Being nominated for a Nobel Prize is not a notable thing, rarely is an actual thing, and is in no sense a newsworthy item. Reporters should farking know that by now.


Horseshiat. If your name is Edward Snowden at this moment in time then using a public toilet is a newsworthy item.

Cyberluddite: Well, it's not like the award ceremony is in L.A. or anything--it's in Sweden.


Heh. That's awesome.
 
2014-01-29 05:24:17 PM  

jso2897: Odd argument - "the Nobel prize is a joke, means nothing" - then proceeds to argue for two hours that that one person or another can't POSSIBLY deserve one, because reasons.
If it's a joke,and means nothing, why are you still talking?


It does come with a cash prize. It's a million rupees, or whatever they have over there.

So there's that
 
2014-01-29 05:24:53 PM  

whidbey: How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.


He farking took the job on purpose to collect evidence.  That's not "risking your career" that's "achieving your goal."

Boo-farking-hoo if he didn't think it out.
 
m00
2014-01-29 05:25:13 PM  

kindms: It totally made sense. It was the world's way of thanking the US for not electing another stupid warmonger like Bush. Yes, I know we're still stuck cleaning up his legacy in Afghanistaq. But in the last 5 years, Obama has also somehow managed to deflect the hardliners' war hardon to attack Iran and North Korea, so that is actually saying something. Romney, had he been elected, would have been pushing for both.

He wanted to go in to Syria and only didnt when the entire country basically said NO. So keep f-ing that chicken. He has killed more innocents by drone than Bush, he has waged war on journalists and whistleblowers never before seen by US presidents. He has presided over ALL of the NSA BS that we keep learning about. And he continues to go on TV and tell everyone it is all legal and above board only to have his own appointed review board turn around and say he is full of crap.

Obama is worse than Bush for the simple reason that under his administration all the things that democrats railed against under a republican administration have become normalized and accepted operating procedure under Obama.

He also assassinated American citizens including a 16 year old boy without due process afforded to them by the constitution. Funny how that fact gets glossed over by the "cult"


When did you become a racist?
 
2014-01-29 05:25:15 PM  

smoky2010: sendtodave: SirEattonHogg: TheWhoppah:  wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States... to recognize our collective ability to see the fear mongering GOP asswipes for who they really were and reject their "bomb bomb Iran" preemptive-war policies.  We elected, as our president, a man named  Barack Hussein Obama just a few years after falling hook-line-and-sinker for the GOP/FoxNews lie machine regarding another man named Hussein.  I'm sure it took brass balls for Obama to even consider running for president but this award was for the everyday Americans that stood in line to vote for him.

Probably the dumbest post on Fark today.  Good jerb.

This. A gesture to the voters of the US?  Get the f--k out of here.

It was a plain and simple "f--k you" to Dubya.   I didn't like Bush, but it was akin to Europeans constantly whining about America this and that during the entire two terms of George Bush.  I don't think the American public needs a pat on the head from the Nobel Prize Committee for how it votes or condemnation either.

They think we do.

Have you ever met an actual European?   When you tell them you are from America, they start speaking slowly and simply, because they assume you are a child.

"That's good, American Johnny!  You finally learned that voting for Republican is wrong!  Oh, no, maybe not, you just allowed them to shut down your government.  Keep trying, Johnny!"

They just know that they are the real adults in the room.

So, democrats are adults and republicans children.. what about unaffiliated voters? I assume we are the group standing in the corner watching the adults and children try to one-up each other, laughing.


No, Europeans are adults and Americans are children.  This is obvious to them, based on the stupidity of those who we elect.

Good guess though!  Keep practicing, Johnny!
 
2014-01-29 05:25:54 PM  

MadMattressMack: You know who else was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize?


Bob Uecker?
 
2014-01-29 05:26:38 PM  
People asking why did Obama win the Nobel are being disingenuous.   He won because he wasn't George W. Bush.
 
2014-01-29 05:27:36 PM  

TheWhoppah: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States... to recognize our collective ability to see the fear mongering GOP asswipes for who they really were and reject their "bomb bomb Iran" preemptive-war policies.  We elected, as our president, a man named  Barack Hussein Obama just a few years after falling hook-line-and-sinker for the GOP/FoxNews lie machine regarding another man named Hussein.  I'm sure it took brass balls for Obama to even consider running for president but this award was for the everyday Americans that stood in line to vote for him.


That makes as much sense as giving the award to Jeri Ryan's breasts.  Those are two of the biggest reasons why Barack is in office.
 
2014-01-29 05:27:41 PM  

Lsherm: whidbey: How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.

He farking took the job on purpose to collect evidence.  That's not "risking your career" that's "achieving your goal."

Boo-farking-hoo if he didn't think it out.


He still took a huge risk doing what he did.

Jesus, does the Police State give you that big of a hardon or what, dude?
 
2014-01-29 05:28:41 PM  

yakmans_dad: People asking why did Obama win the Nobel are being disingenuous.   He won because he wasn't George W. Bush.


No farking shiat. The entire world breathed a sigh of relief when Bush left office. That right there deserves an award.
 
2014-01-29 05:29:27 PM  
blatz514:   You know who else was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize?

Bob Uecker?



I'd second that nomination.  He's my fav, along with Vin Scully.
 
2014-01-29 05:30:09 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: Snowden didn't reveal anything anyone with a functioning brain stem knew since at least 2006.


Agreed. But Snowden handed over proof.

Anybody know who nominated him? Is it in the article?
 
2014-01-29 05:30:14 PM  

blatz514: MadMattressMack: You know who else was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize?

Bob Uecker?


No one. No one was nominated in 1948.
 
2014-01-29 05:30:15 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: Snowden didn't reveal anything anyone with a functioning brain stem knew didn't know since at least 2006.


There, FTFM. I'm just ticked off with the folks over-glamourizing what he did.
 
2014-01-29 05:30:44 PM  

whidbey: Bith Set Me Up: Snowden didn't reveal anything anyone with a functioning brain stem knew since at least 2006.

lolwut


Yeah, he should have said since the Patriot Act, but actually much earlier than that. The only revelation that surprised me was spying on Brazil.
 
2014-01-29 05:31:51 PM  

Lsherm: whidbey: How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.

He farking took the job on purpose to collect evidence.  That's not "risking your career" that's "achieving your goal."

Boo-farking-hoo if he didn't think it out.


Huh.  Don't recall reading that before.
 
2014-01-29 05:32:25 PM  

whidbey: yakmans_dad: People asking why did Obama win the Nobel are being disingenuous.   He won because he wasn't George W. Bush.

No farking shiat. The entire world breathed a sigh of relief when Bush left office. That right there deserves an award.


In hindsight, seeing what a crappy president Obama is, I'd take 4 more years of Dubya. No, I don't like wars and such, but Obama is just taking up space in the White House. Its like were are all just waiting out this last term so that we can start actually doing something.
 
2014-01-29 05:33:07 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: Bith Set Me Up: Snowden didn't reveal anything anyone with a functioning brain stem knew didn't know since at least 2006.

There, FTFM. I'm just ticked off with the folks over-glamourizing what he did.


but yet it took his actions to create a situation where the media really reported on it and congress people started asking questions and the courts started ruling on the legality of it all.
 
2014-01-29 05:33:16 PM  

whidbey: MadMattressMack: You know who else was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize?

I find it funny that the person whose namesake is the prize is ultimately responsible for god knows many deaths through the use of explosives.


 Unbeknownst to his family, friends or colleagues, he had left most of his wealth in trust, in order to fund the awards that would become known as the <a data-cke-saved-href="<a href=" href="<a href=" http:="" en.wikipedia.org="" wiki="" nobel_prize"="" target="_blank">Nobel Prizes
 
2014-01-29 05:34:07 PM  

simplicimus: whidbey: Bith Set Me Up: Snowden didn't reveal anything anyone with a functioning brain stem knew since at least 2006.

lolwut

Yeah, he should have said since the Patriot Act, but actually much earlier than that. The only revelation that surprised me was spying on Brazil.


Without actual confirmation though, it's just tinfoil conspiracy nonsense. You might as well have said they were in contact with the Lizard People.
 
2014-01-29 05:34:26 PM  

smoky2010: In hindsight, seeing what a crappy president Obama is, I'd take 4 more years of Dubya.


how old are you?
 
2014-01-29 05:34:50 PM  
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-01-29 05:35:04 PM  

whidbey: simplicimus: whidbey: Bith Set Me Up: Snowden didn't reveal anything anyone with a functioning brain stem knew since at least 2006.

lolwut

Yeah, he should have said since the Patriot Act, but actually much earlier than that. The only revelation that surprised me was spying on Brazil.

Without actual confirmation though, it's just tinfoil conspiracy nonsense. You might as well have said they were in contact with the Lizard People.


Shh. We don't talk about them.
 
2014-01-29 05:35:40 PM  

chachi88: whidbey: MadMattressMack: You know who else was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize?

I find it funny that the person whose namesake is the prize is ultimately responsible for god knows many deaths through the use of explosives.

 Unbeknownst to his family, friends or colleagues, he had left most of his wealth in trust, in order to fund the awards that would become known as the <a data-cke-saved-href="<a href=" href="<a href=" http:="" en.wikipedia.org="" wiki="" nobel_prize"="" target="_blank">Nobel Prizes


Yeah but Nobel's invention caused a lot of death and damage to people, animals and property over the past 100 years. Don't you find that even the least bit lulzy?
 
2014-01-29 05:36:16 PM  

smoky2010: whidbey: yakmans_dad: People asking why did Obama win the Nobel are being disingenuous.   He won because he wasn't George W. Bush.

No farking shiat. The entire world breathed a sigh of relief when Bush left office. That right there deserves an award.

In hindsight, seeing what a crappy president Obama is, I'd take 4 more years of Dubya. No, I don't like wars and such, but Obama is just taking up space in the White House. Its like were are all just waiting out this last term so that we can start actually doing something.



I don't know -- the fact that we've finally addressed (if incompletely) the healthcare mess pretty much makes up for every other way in which I'm disappointed with Obama.
 
2014-01-29 05:37:12 PM  
They should also give one to St Vlad for accepting this whistle blower on Asylum, not many people have the nerve to protect someone from the criminal regeme in the US.
 
2014-01-29 05:38:44 PM  

SirEattonHogg: So, you can't discern the difference between a private citizen who writes political articles critical of a government but neither works for the government nor has access to any sensitive information versus a person who signed a confidentiality agreement with his employer (a government), had access to a lot of state secrets and then fled to various foreign countries revealing sensitive state secrets along the way.

Okay, that makes sense.


Snowden was not a government employee, he worked for a private, for-profit business called Booz Allen Hamilton. He was a nobody working for one of many private businesses, just imagine how many others there are who had the same access to surveillance upon the American public who are content to take home their fat paychecks without speaking up.
The government is literally outsourcing national security:


Seventy percent of America's intelligence budget now flows to private contractors. Going by this year's estimated budget of about $80 billion, that makes private intelligence a $56 billion-a-year industry.
 
2014-01-29 05:38:44 PM  

Nabb1: They've given it to people who have done much worse harm to the world.


1979.
 
2014-01-29 05:39:03 PM  

Chris Ween: whidbey: simplicimus: whidbey: Bith Set Me Up: Snowden didn't reveal anything anyone with a functioning brain stem knew since at least 2006.

lolwut

Yeah, he should have said since the Patriot Act, but actually much earlier than that. The only revelation that surprised me was spying on Brazil.

Without actual confirmation though, it's just tinfoil conspiracy nonsense. You might as well have said they were in contact with the Lizard People.

Shh. We don't talk about them.


Why not? They have the best weed.

www.morethings.com
 
2014-01-29 05:39:42 PM  

smoky2010: Stinkyy: Wow, can we get this to over 4,000? The B.O. Nobel thread went down in the anals of Fark.

/(Ignore the thread badge on the right, I don't have time to fix it right now.)

//Yes, the missing n was on purpose

Anals? The word you were looking for is "annals"



Thanks for the superb annalysis, bro!
 
2014-01-29 05:39:56 PM  

smoky2010: In hindsight, seeing what a crappy president Obama is, I'd take 4 more years of Dubya


hahahaha

no
 
2014-01-29 05:40:36 PM  

smoky2010: whidbey: yakmans_dad: People asking why did Obama win the Nobel are being disingenuous.   He won because he wasn't George W. Bush.

No farking shiat. The entire world breathed a sigh of relief when Bush left office. That right there deserves an award.

In hindsight, seeing what a crappy president Obama is, I'd take 4 more years of Dubya. No, I don't like wars and such, but Obama is just taking up space in the White House. Its like were are all just waiting out this last term so that we can start actually doing something.


Well, to many on the left, Obama has just been a continuation of Bush. Particularly on foreign policy. So, yes, he's been disappointing.

I think the belly-aching from the Republican establishment is an exercise in kabuki theater. (The belly-aching by the Tea Party? Dumbos getting wound up by professional fund raisers.)
 
2014-01-29 05:40:37 PM  

whidbey: Lsherm: whidbey: How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.

He farking took the job on purpose to collect evidence.  That's not "risking your career" that's "achieving your goal."

Boo-farking-hoo if he didn't think it out.

He still took a huge risk doing what he did.

Jesus, does the Police State give you that big of a hardon or what, dude?


When I was growing up in the 80s I thought of Republicans as the police state's biggest proponents.  And the war on drugs.  And also the people most likely to say stupid shiat like, "America, love it or leave it."   Turns out there are authority fellators everywhere.
 
2014-01-29 05:41:50 PM  

sendtodave: smoky2010: sendtodave: SirEattonHogg: TheWhoppah:  wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States... to recognize our collective ability to see the fear mongering GOP asswipes for who they really were and reject their "bomb bomb Iran" preemptive-war policies.  We elected, as our president, a man named  Barack Hussein Obama just a few years after falling hook-line-and-sinker for the GOP/FoxNews lie machine regarding another man named Hussein.  I'm sure it took brass balls for Obama to even consider running for president but this award was for the everyday Americans that stood in line to vote for him.

Probably the dumbest post on Fark today.  Good jerb.

This. A gesture to the voters of the US?  Get the f--k out of here.

It was a plain and simple "f--k you" to Dubya.   I didn't like Bush, but it was akin to Europeans constantly whining about America this and that during the entire two terms of George Bush.  I don't think the American public needs a pat on the head from the Nobel Prize Committee for how it votes or condemnation either.

They think we do.

Have you ever met an actual European?   When you tell them you are from America, they start speaking slowly and simply, because they assume you are a child.

"That's good, American Johnny!  You finally learned that voting for Republican is wrong!  Oh, no, maybe not, you just allowed them to shut down your government.  Keep trying, Johnny!"

They just know that they are the real adults in the room.

So, democrats are adults and republicans children.. what about unaffiliated voters? I assume we are the group standing in the corner watching the adults and children try to one-up each other, laughing.

No, Europeans are adults and Americans are children.  This is obvious to them, based on the stupidity of those who we elect.

Good guess though!  Keep practicing, John ...


As the French have month-long riots and black soccer players are called racial slurs and people stab and riot over soccer. Soccer is a third-world sport perfect for those with a third-world mentality. Much like feeding Christians to lions and gladiator events.

Europeans have set themselves up to be completely dependent upon the government for their day-to-day survival. And when they don't get their way, they riot and loot.
 
2014-01-29 05:42:00 PM  
Good, he deserves the prize.
 
2014-01-29 05:43:27 PM  

Stinkyy: smoky2010: Stinkyy: Wow, can we get this to over 4,000? The B.O. Nobel thread went down in the anals of Fark.

/(Ignore the thread badge on the right, I don't have time to fix it right now.)

//Yes, the missing n was on purpose

Anals? The word you were looking for is "annals"


Thanks for the superb annalysis, bro!


I laughed.  It's like he didn't even read your post.
 
2014-01-29 05:44:13 PM  

smoky2010: I can't wait until that little prick gets "Rosenburged".

\Thats what you do to traitors


Um, that little prick General Alexander? Because if anyone is a traitor, it's the head of the NSA. These guys take an oath to uphold the constitution- Alexander and many other very high ranking officials willingly broke that oath. They are the greater traitors deserving our wrath, not Snowden. Snowden only showed us how these guys were violating our civil rights.
 
2014-01-29 05:44:18 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: "He has contributed to revealing the extreme level of surveillance by nations against other nations and of citizens," former Socialist Left Party minister Baard Vegar Solhjell

You know who else liked extreme levels of surveillance against Norway?

I just hope Obama does the right thing and returns Henry Kissinger's Peace Prize.

/that lying fat fark who left people behind in SE Asia


Are you talking about the bodies along the Laotian and Cambodian borders?
 
2014-01-29 05:44:29 PM  
I hope he gets it, shows up to pick it up, and gets splattered as the mic he leans down to give his speech to explodes in his face.

ahhhhhhh.
 
2014-01-29 05:44:31 PM  

yakmans_dad: Well, to many on the left, Obama has just been a continuation of Bush. Particularly on foreign policy. So, yes, he's been disappointing.


Actually many of us "on the left" understand that Obama can only do so much, and Presidents don't control foreign policy, hardliners do. We also understand what happens to prospective progressives who try to challenge them.

The fact that we are still farking around the world stage is an indication of a much bigger problem than a cautious President.
 
2014-01-29 05:45:01 PM  
dittybopper:

You could argue that Snowden, by exposing the pervasive surveillance capabilities of the NSA, made us all a little bit more free, if only because we *KNOW* we're being surveilled now.

You could also argue that he made us less free by revealing an intelligence method.  Sources and Methods are two of the most closely guarded secrets.  Now that this is publically known, the NSA does not need to use nearly as much discretion when acting on data collected by the means Snowden revealed.  They're still collecting the data. Now they can use it without fear of revealing how they got it, making it far more likely to be used against someone other than an Al Qaeda operative.
 
2014-01-29 05:45:39 PM  

Big_Fat_Liar: When I was growing up in the 80s I thought of Republicans as the police state's biggest proponents. And the war on drugs. And also the people most likely to say stupid shiat like, "America, love it or leave it." Turns out there are authority fellators everywhere.


It's not a left-right thing -- it's just that people can't look at their own side with a critical eye.  I hated Bush, but that doesn't automatically imply that I adore Obama.  He's better, certainly, but far from perfect.  Yes, when it comes to "police state" issues, he seems to be basically unprincipled -- at least as much as Bush was.

But people cling to their political affiliations with almost religious zeal: my candidate, right or wrong.
 
2014-01-29 05:46:14 PM  
I think, eventually, Snowden will be back and welcomed as a hero.  History tends to be kind to whistleblowers and not to over-reaching governments.
 
2014-01-29 05:46:36 PM  

smoky2010: whidbey: yakmans_dad: People asking why did Obama win the Nobel are being disingenuous.   He won because he wasn't George W. Bush.

No farking shiat. The entire world breathed a sigh of relief when Bush left office. That right there deserves an award.

In hindsight, seeing what a crappy president Obama is, I'd take 4 more years of Dubya. No, I don't like wars and such, but Obama is just taking up space in the White House. Its like were are all just waiting out this last term so that we can start actually doing something.


Roger that, Smoky, but people seem to forget that President Bush had 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina to deal with. I don't think the guy was that bad. Watch the documentary that Pelosi's daughter made; he actually looks like a pretty cool dude. Most of the hate for Uncle George is just fashionable and/or reflexive.
 
2014-01-29 05:47:31 PM  

jshine: But people cling to their political affiliations with almost religious zeal: my candidate, right or wrong.


Sorry but that's bullshiat.
 
2014-01-29 05:48:52 PM  

MJMaloney187: Roger that, Smoky, but people seem to forget that President Bush had 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina to deal with.


Yea, and Obama had Bush's messes to deal with, which were arguably bigger disasters.

/ far, far more people died in the Iraq war than in 9/11 and Katrina combined
 
2014-01-29 05:49:05 PM  

whidbey: Presidents don't control foreign policy


Yet Bush gets the blame for his.

whidbey: jshine: But people cling to their political affiliations with almost religious zeal: my candidate, right or wrong.

Sorry but that's bullshiat.


You were saying?
 
2014-01-29 05:49:16 PM  

MJMaloney187: Most of the hate for Uncle George is just fashionable and/or reflexive.


lol no
 
2014-01-29 05:49:47 PM  

TheDirtyNacho: I think, eventually, Snowden will be back and welcomed as a hero.  History tends to be kind to whistleblowers and not to over-reaching governments.


I'm not so sure. I think both sides are in the wrong here and I wouldn't call him a hero. Unless he took up Anna Chapman's offer of marriage.
 
2014-01-29 05:50:00 PM  

umad: whidbey: Presidents don't control foreign policy

Yet Bush gets the blame for his.

whidbey: jshine: But people cling to their political affiliations with almost religious zeal: my candidate, right or wrong.

Sorry but that's bullshiat.

You were saying?


Stuff you obviously can't fathom.
 
2014-01-29 05:52:23 PM  

Nemo's Brother: As the French have month-long riots and black soccer players are called racial slurs and people stab and riot over soccer. Soccer is a third-world sport perfect for those with a third-world mentality. Much like feeding Christians to lions and gladiator events.

Europeans have set themselves up to be completely dependent upon the government for their day-to-day survival. And when they don't get their way, they riot and loot.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/07/16-ways-europeans-are-just- be tter-at-life_n_3950351.html

16 Ways Europeans Are Just Better At Life

6. FOOTBALL (SOCCER)


/le'l
 
2014-01-29 05:52:27 PM  

voran: I hope he gets it, shows up to pick it up, and gets splattered as the mic he leans down to give his speech to explodes in his face.

ahhhhhhh.


Why?
 
2014-01-29 05:52:31 PM  

whidbey: Lsherm: whidbey: How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.

He farking took the job on purpose to collect evidence.  That's not "risking your career" that's "achieving your goal."

Boo-farking-hoo if he didn't think it out.

He still took a huge risk doing what he did.

Jesus, does the Police State give you that big of a hardon or what, dude?


No, I can't even say I appreciate what the NSA is doing.  But I also don't appreciate blanket disclosure of state secrets without any concern for the damage it may cause, which is precisely the business Wikileaks is in.  Snowden strikes me as either ridiculously idealistic, profoundly ignorant, or maybe a mixture of both, about what he actually stole.  He stole particulars but not enough to see them in a whole context.

I had a few security clearances in my early career (absolutely nothing NSA level), and one of the instructions they either told me or I picked up on, I can't remember, was that something that seems like worthless information to you becomes infinitely more valuable when paired with information that seems like worthless information to someone else.  So one guy saying "hey, I built a hypersensitive infrared camera" doesn't sound like much until you find the guy that says "I just learned how to put this new camera in a missile guidance system."

He's only a victim of his own stupidity and megalomania - he planned this without any forethought to the damage he would cause to others, nor, it seems, what damage he would do to himself.  He exploited a hole in our national security apparatus, and for that he's to be thanked and then thrown in jail for 20 years.  Or he can live in Russia - more power to him.  He farked up, and he seems unwilling to accept that.
 
2014-01-29 05:53:14 PM  

MJMaloney187: smoky2010: whidbey: yakmans_dad: People asking why did Obama win the Nobel are being disingenuous.   He won because he wasn't George W. Bush.

No farking shiat. The entire world breathed a sigh of relief when Bush left office. That right there deserves an award.

In hindsight, seeing what a crappy president Obama is, I'd take 4 more years of Dubya. No, I don't like wars and such, but Obama is just taking up space in the White House. Its like were are all just waiting out this last term so that we can start actually doing something.

Roger that, Smoky, but people seem to forget that President Bush had 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina to deal with. I don't think the guy was that bad. Watch the documentary that Pelosi's daughter made; he actually looks like a pretty cool dude. Most of the hate for Uncle George is just fashionable and/or reflexive.


0/10
 
2014-01-29 05:53:27 PM  

sendtodave: Lsherm: whidbey: How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.

He farking took the job on purpose to collect evidence.  That's not "risking your career" that's "achieving your goal."

Boo-farking-hoo if he didn't think it out.

Huh.  Don't recall reading that before.


Well of course not, it doesn't fit in the "narrative."
 
2014-01-29 05:54:38 PM  

smoky2010: whidbey: yakmans_dad: People asking why did Obama win the Nobel are being disingenuous.   He won because he wasn't George W. Bush.

No farking shiat. The entire world breathed a sigh of relief when Bush left office. That right there deserves an award.

In hindsight, seeing what a crappy president Obama is, I'd take 4 more years of Dubya. No, I don't like wars and such, but Obama is just taking up space in the White House. Its like were are all just waiting out this last term so that we can start actually doing something.


Doing "something"?  Like failing to prevent 9/11 even after reading a security memo that read "Bin Laden Determined to Strike Within U.S."?  Like making up WMD claims in order to start a costly war against a country that didn't attack us?  Cutting taxes for the wealthy and sparking the Great Recession?  Turning a surplus into an $11 Trillion deficit?  Cutting spending on education, health care, environmental protection, and regulatory agencies?  Being the only industrialized nation to reject the Kyoto agreements to protect the environment?  Restricting states from regulating predatory lenders?  Badly mismanaging the Katrina disaster?  Denying global climate change -- or any science -- because it didn't line up with his politics?  Never apologizing or even recognizing any mistakes?

You mean those kinds of things?

You're smoking some pretty strong stuff, smoky2010.
 
2014-01-29 05:55:02 PM  
I think he totally deserves it.
 
2014-01-29 05:56:10 PM  

Lsherm: He's only a victim of his own stupidity and megalomania - he planned this without any forethought to the damage he would cause to others, nor, it seems, what damage he would do to himself.  He exploited a hole in our national security apparatus, and for that he's to be thanked and then thrown in jail for 20 years.  Or he can live in Russia - more power to him.  He farked up, and he seems unwilling to accept that.


I'm really not seeing the "megalomania" angle. And if anything, it takes a lot of courage to stand up to nearly indefensible policy like the NSA, or for that matter, the US as the aggressively hypocritical mega-state it's become.

I don't think it's "stupid" to challenge that, either. Snowden is forcing this country to behave mercifully. For once.
 
2014-01-29 05:56:11 PM  

Chris Ween: voran: I hope he gets it, shows up to pick it up, and gets splattered as the mic he leans down to give his speech to explodes in his face.

ahhhhhhh.

Why?



Authoritarian bootlicker mindset.
 
2014-01-29 05:56:46 PM  

Lsherm: sendtodave: Lsherm: whidbey: How is this a "troll," subby? The little biatch risked his life and career to blow the whistle on the NSA.

It's totally a peace move. Do yourself a favor and look up the word "troll" sometime.

He farking took the job on purpose to collect evidence.  That's not "risking your career" that's "achieving your goal."

Boo-farking-hoo if he didn't think it out.

Huh.  Don't recall reading that before.

Well of course not, it doesn't fit in the "narrative."


Which narrative, the one where he is only an innocent bystander, or the one where he is a malicious, monomaniacal traitor?
 
2014-01-29 05:57:14 PM  

MadMattressMack: TheDirtyNacho: I think, eventually, Snowden will be back and welcomed as a hero.  History tends to be kind to whistleblowers and not to over-reaching governments.

I'm not so sure. I think both sides are in the wrong here and I wouldn't call him a hero. Unless he took up Anna Chapman's offer of marriage.



A not-great comparison might be Pete Seeger.  He was hauled before Congress to be accused of being a Communist (and he was!) and then tossed in jail for contempt because he wouldn't name names.  But he stuck to his principles and despite being very unpopular in love-it-or-leave-it circles became an important element to the protests and social upheaval and eventually an icon of history.

Obviously not the same situation, and nobody's a perfect angel pure in deed, but I think history will look at his actions with favor.
 
2014-01-29 05:57:47 PM  
Good. Give him Obama's.
 
2014-01-29 05:57:55 PM  

sendtodave: SirEattonHogg: TheWhoppah:  wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.


Have you ever met an actual European?   When you tell them you are from America, they start speaking slowly and simply, because they assume you are a child....................................

They just know that they are the real adults in the room.



The fact that the Europeans have a false sense of superiority doesn't make them "the adults in the room". Over the last 100 years, or so,  how have the Europeans proven themselves to be superioror more mature than the Americans?  Starting WWI? Starting WWII? Getting rebuilt through the US-designed Marshall Plan? Or perhaps you're referring to the way the Europeans managed more recent international issues, like the "successful" breakup of Yugoslavia?
 
2014-01-29 05:58:04 PM  

whidbey: m00: I hope he wins.

I would love to see the politicians trying to condemn china for jailing its nobel price winners, but justify (trying to) jail snowden.

I love how just because Snowden blew the whistle he is somehow automagically immune from prosecution.



Except for the fact that he is immune ... or at least should be

The Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989, Pub.L. 101-12 as amended, is a United States federal law that protects federal employees who work for the government and report agency misconduct.
 
2014-01-29 05:59:00 PM  

smoky2010: whidbey: yakmans_dad: People asking why did Obama win the Nobel are being disingenuous.   He won because he wasn't George W. Bush.

No farking shiat. The entire world breathed a sigh of relief when Bush left office. That right there deserves an award.

In hindsight, seeing what a crappy president Obama is, I'd take 4 more years of Dubya. No, I don't like wars and such, but Obama is just taking up space in the White House. Its like were are all just waiting out this last term so that we can start actually doing something.


Wow...
Can I have some of whatever you're smoking?
 
2014-01-29 05:59:46 PM  

FatherofWallaby: Over the last 100 years, or so, how have the Europeans proven themselves to be superioror more mature than the Americans?


Their wars are much more deadly & vicious?
 
2014-01-29 06:00:04 PM  

FatherofWallaby: sendtodave: SirEattonHogg: TheWhoppah:  wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.


Have you ever met an actual European?   When you tell them you are from America, they start speaking slowly and simply, because they assume you are a child....................................

They just know that they are the real adults in the room.


The fact that the Europeans have a false sense of superiority doesn't make them "the adults in the room". Over the last 100 years, or so,  how have the Europeans proven themselves to be superioror more mature than the Americans?  Starting WWI? Starting WWII? Getting rebuilt through the US-designed Marshall Plan? Or perhaps you're referring to the way the Europeans managed more recent international issues, like the "successful" breakup of Yugoslavia?


I guess you can ask them why they know they are better than you.

Kinda like when you ask why the adults get to stay up late, while you have to go to bed.
 
2014-01-29 06:01:12 PM  

Finger51: whidbey: m00: I hope he wins.

I would love to see the politicians trying to condemn china for jailing its nobel price winners, but justify (trying to) jail snowden.

I love how just because Snowden blew the whistle he is somehow automagically immune from prosecution.


Except for the fact that he is immune ... or at least should be

The Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989, Pub.L. 101-12 as amended, is a United States federal law that protects federal employees who work for the government and report agency misconduct.


A law which has about as much bite as a toothless old Grishnar cat, thanks to successful efforts over the years.
 
2014-01-29 06:01:58 PM  
Seriously, though.  Just about every European I've ever met looks down on Americans.

The ones that don't make a real big show of it.  "I love Americans!  America is great!  I'm not like those other, american hating Europeans!"

I think you're just supposed to hate Americans if you are a European.
 
2014-01-29 06:02:18 PM  
Is he really worthy of standing along side luminaries of peace like Yasser Arafat and Barack Obama?
How many suicide bombers and hellfire missiles has this loser contributed to the cause of peace?
I think you should have to at least blow up four weddings and a funeral before you are even considered for nomination.

Call it the Gandhi rule.
 
2014-01-29 06:02:23 PM  

sendtodave: I guess you can ask them why they know they are better than you.

Kinda like when you ask why the adults get to stay up late, while you have to go to bed.


...and just remember:

cdn.tshirtonomy.com
 
2014-01-29 06:02:52 PM  

generallyso: Chris Ween: voran: I hope he gets it, shows up to pick it up, and gets splattered as the mic he leans down to give his speech to explodes in his face.

ahhhhhhh.

Why?


Authoritarian bootlicker mindset.


I dunno, I don't think its fair to call Mr. Ween that.
 
2014-01-29 06:03:57 PM  

hardinparamedic: As much as I dislike snowden's personality and motives for doing what he did as less than altruistic,'


I don't get that sentiment in the least. How the fark did he do anything but suffer for his actions? And what the fark is wrong with his personality? You people all seem like basic slaves to the media. They can't program you with a 'take' on a situation no matter what the facts are.
 
2014-01-29 06:05:33 PM  

Finger51: whidbey: m00: I hope he wins.

I would love to see the politicians trying to condemn china for jailing its nobel price winners, but justify (trying to) jail snowden.

I love how just because Snowden blew the whistle he is somehow automagically immune from prosecution.


Except for the fact that he is immune ... or at least should be

The Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989, Pub.L. 101-12 as amended, is a United States federal law that protects federal employees who work for the government and report agency misconduct.


Snowden's actions are specifically excluded from protection by that act.

The dude is a criminal that indiscriminately released state secrets to the public.   He is no different than the asshole that let Valerie Plame's status be known.

He effectively broke into your house, stole your filing cabinet and then pulled out that "questionable" tax return and declared you a tax evader.
 
2014-01-29 06:06:32 PM  

ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.


Nope.  He's a few drone strike orders short of what Obama has achieved.
 
2014-01-29 06:08:36 PM  

hardinparamedic: As much as I dislike snowden's personality and motives for doing what he did as less than altruistic, they're right. Exposing wide-spread abuse of the NSA's telecom monitoring network and the US Government flagrantly violation it's citizens constitutional rights is a big deal, might be worthy of the prize.

However, as people have mentioned, a nomination does not mean he'll win it, and it's not really notable.



What is his personality?  And from where did you get your understanding of it?
 
2014-01-29 06:10:30 PM  

BafflerMeal: hardinparamedic: As much as I dislike snowden's personality and motives for doing what he did as less than altruistic, they're right. Exposing wide-spread abuse of the NSA's telecom monitoring network and the US Government flagrantly violation it's citizens constitutional rights is a big deal, might be worthy of the prize.

However, as people have mentioned, a nomination does not mean he'll win it, and it's not really notable.


What is his personality?  And from where did you get your understanding of it?


He's obviously an arrogant prick because he didn't break down on international TV and say "I'm SOWWY USA for what I did OH THE HUMANITY I MISS CHEESEBURGERS!"
 
2014-01-29 06:12:35 PM  

BafflerMeal: hardinparamedic: As much as I dislike snowden's personality and motives for doing what he did as less than altruistic, they're right. Exposing wide-spread abuse of the NSA's telecom monitoring network and the US Government flagrantly violation it's citizens constitutional rights is a big deal, might be worthy of the prize.

However, as people have mentioned, a nomination does not mean he'll win it, and it's not really notable.


What is his personality?  And from where did you get your understanding of it?


Just, like, listen to him.  Doesn't he sound smug, and sneering?

All like, "Oh, I know better than the entire US government regarding people's rights!  I should try and undermine my protector and benefactor!"

Who thinks that?

People with no loyalty, that's who.
 
2014-01-29 06:12:54 PM  

whidbey: OH THE HUMANITY I MISS CHEESEBURGERS!"


www.personal.psu.edu
 
2014-01-29 06:13:25 PM  

voran: generallyso: Chris Ween: voran: I hope he gets it, shows up to pick it up, and gets splattered as the mic he leans down to give his speech to explodes in his face.

ahhhhhhh.

Why?


Authoritarian bootlicker mindset.

I dunno, I don't think its fair to call Mr. Ween that.


That doesn't even register on the top 100 names I've been called. :)
 
2014-01-29 06:14:12 PM  

jshine: whidbey: OH THE HUMANITY I MISS CHEESEBURGERS!"

[www.personal.psu.edu image 479x459]


Jeez 9.50 for a burger? What's become of this country?
 
2014-01-29 06:14:34 PM  

sendtodave: BafflerMeal: hardinparamedic: As much as I dislike snowden's personality and motives for doing what he did as less than altruistic, they're right. Exposing wide-spread abuse of the NSA's telecom monitoring network and the US Government flagrantly violation it's citizens constitutional rights is a big deal, might be worthy of the prize.

However, as people have mentioned, a nomination does not mean he'll win it, and it's not really notable.


What is his personality?  And from where did you get your understanding of it?

Just, like, listen to him.  Doesn't he sound smug, and sneering?

All like, "Oh, I know better than the entire US government regarding people's rights!  I should try and undermine my protector and benefactor!"

Who thinks that?

People with no loyalty, that's who.


Somalians!
 
2014-01-29 06:15:37 PM  

whidbey: jshine: whidbey: OH THE HUMANITY I MISS CHEESEBURGERS!"

[www.personal.psu.edu image 479x459]

Jeez 9.50 for a burger? What's become of this country?


Its the new flavorful quarter pounder menus.
 
2014-01-29 06:16:57 PM  
MAXIMUM TROLLING would be if St Vlad made Snowy Ambassador to the US he could come to the US and have diplomatic immunity.
 
2014-01-29 06:18:12 PM  

Chris Ween: whidbey: jshine: whidbey: OH THE HUMANITY I MISS CHEESEBURGERS!"

[www.personal.psu.edu image 479x459]

Jeez 9.50 for a burger? What's become of this country?

Its the new flavorful quarter pounder menus.


In Putin Mafia Russia, quarter pound YOU.
 
2014-01-29 06:18:14 PM  
www.styleforum.net
 
2014-01-29 06:18:43 PM  

Cyberluddite: tlars699: There's no way he can accept this, right? It would be like Roman Polansky coming over to the US for an Oscar.
Right?

Well, it's not like the award ceremony is in L.A. or anything--it's in Sweden.  But anyway, just as Woody Allen never shows up to the Oscars but still gets nominated and is eligible to win, you don't have to show up at the Nobel awards ceremony to win the prize--it isn't like a "must be present to win" raffle drawing.


"Drat"- NSA
 
2014-01-29 06:19:37 PM  

Rent Party: Finger51: whidbey: m00: I hope he wins.

I would love to see the politicians trying to condemn china for jailing its nobel price winners, but justify (trying to) jail snowden.

I love how just because Snowden blew the whistle he is somehow automagically immune from prosecution.


Except for the fact that he is immune ... or at least should be

The Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989, Pub.L. 101-12 as amended, is a United States federal law that protects federal employees who work for the government and report agency misconduct.

Snowden's actions are specifically excluded from protection by that act.

The dude is a criminal that indiscriminately released state secrets to the public.   He is no different than the asshole that let Valerie Plame's status be known.

He effectively broke into your house, stole your filing cabinet and then pulled out that "questionable" tax return and declared you a tax evader.


Those of us who aren't authoritarian cowards don't feel that way. I understand that you do. But it's not going to be universal.
 
2014-01-29 06:20:35 PM  
Nomination isn't a win... I don't think he deserves it.
 
2014-01-29 06:24:56 PM  

Rent Party: He is no different than the asshole that let Valerie Plame's status be known.


Scooter Libby?

Rent Party: He effectively broke into your house, stole your filing cabinet and then pulled out that "questionable" tax return and declared you a tax evader.


I guess I don't see it that way. Him stealing my docs and declaring me a tax evader is a pretty huge stretch. My tax evasion doesn't equate to the US government spying on citizens, shiatting on the 4th, and absolutely destroying high levels of trust amongst our allies (Merkel et al)

nope. not even close.
 
2014-01-29 06:29:50 PM  

Cyberluddite: tlars699: There's no way he can accept this, right? It would be like Roman Polansky coming over to the US for an Oscar.
Right?

Well, it's not like the award ceremony is in L.A. or anything--it's in Sweden.  But anyway, just as Woody Allen never shows up to the Oscars but still gets nominated and is eligible to win, you don't have to show up at the Nobel awards ceremony to win the prize--it isn't like a "must be present to win" raffle drawing.


You also don't have to do a damned thing to be nominated.

"A former Norwegian minister nominated fugitive US intelligence leaker Edward Snowden for the Nobel Peace Prize Wednesday in a letter to the Norwegian Nobel Committee."

That's it. Any qualified asshole* can submit a nomination.

* Such as
--university professors of history, social sciences, philosophy, law, and theology
--university presidents
--directors of peace research and international affairs institutes
--Former recipients, including board members of organizations that have previously received the prize
 
2014-01-29 06:38:21 PM  

iron de havilland: kindms: whidbey: tylerdurden217: I really have no issues with President Obama, I even voted for him both times. But I really did not understand why he won that award. It made no sense then and it makes even less sense now.

It totally made sense. It was the world's way of thanking the US for not electing another stupid warmonger like Bush.

Was Bush a warmonger? He came across as the mildly retarded frontman for a cabal of warmongers.

You know, little things like having difficulty speaking in public and generally making a tit of himself, while god knows who actually planned the wars.

Yes, I know we're still stuck cleaning up his legacy in Afghanistaq. But in the last 5 years, Obama has also somehow managed to deflect the hardliners' war hardon to attack Iran and North Korea, so that is actually saying something. Romney, had he been elected, would have been pushing for both.

He wanted to go in to Syria and only didnt when the entire country basically said NO. So keep f-ing that chicken. He has killed more innocents by drone than Bush,

How many Americans have been killed in the wars started in Bush's reign?

How many non-American civilians have been killed in the same conflicts?

he has waged war on journalists and whistleblowers never before seen by US presidents.

Nixon doctrine.

And do you think a different president would have handled Assange and Snowden differently?

He has presided over ALL of the NSA BS that we keep learning about.

Bush didn't?

And he continues to go on TV and tell everyone it is all legal and above board only to have his own appointed review board turn around and say he is full of crap.

Obama is worse than Bush for the simple reason that under his administration all the things that democrats railed against under a republican administration have become normalized and accepted operating procedure under Obama.

Both sides are bad, so Bush is better?

Makes you sound kind of racist, dude.

He also assassinated American citizens including a 16 year old boy without due process afforded to them by the constitution. Funny how that fact gets glossed over by the "cult"

Yeah... your post leaves me thinking that if anyone's a member of a "cult"... it's you.


Hilarious that you immediately jumped to think I am saying bush is good.

Let's get something straight right off the bat. I'm a liberal lefty mclefterson. But to say there is not a cult of democrats that do whatever it takes to bend over backwards to excuse anything their guy does is laughable. I voted for the f-ing guy but he has been as bad or worse on civil liberties, and foreign policy as the guy he replaced. What makes it even worse is he campaigned on putting a stop to this very thing.

And I unlike May democrats will hold him to the same standard as Bush when it comes to law breaking and killing people. He doesn't get a pass from me just because he has a D next to his name
 
2014-01-29 06:38:48 PM  

Nemo's Brother: Europeans have set themselves up to be completely dependent upon the government for their day-to-day survival


You only think you're he-man of the mountains.
 
2014-01-29 06:40:00 PM  

kindms: He doesn't get a pass from me just because he has a D next to his name


This is why you are a Democrat in Name Only.
 
2014-01-29 06:40:08 PM  
I can agree with a nomination to recognize his efforts, and further the discussion. But only a nomination. Someone like Malala Yousafzai actually deserves to win the prize.
 
2014-01-29 06:41:27 PM  

tylerdurden217: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

I really have no issues with President Obama, I even voted for him both times. But I really did not understand why he won that award. It made no sense then and it makes even less sense now.

I hope Snowden really does win the Nobel Peace Prize. I'm not saying that what he did was right or wrong. I'm not even suggesting that he would be the most deserving of the prize, but it would at least keep the conversation going regarding privacy.


All of this except I'd say what Snowden did was clearly right, and he's a goddamn national hero.
 
2014-01-29 06:41:54 PM  

sendtodave: Which narrative, the one where he is only an innocent bystander, or the one where he is a malicious, monomaniacal traitor?


Either/or depending on which side you fall.  He's not really a victim, but he's also not someone who clearly thought out a plan to bring the US to its knees.  He planned to much to be a victim, and not enough to be a super-spy.

whidbey: I'm really not seeing the "megalomania" angle.


Of course you don't because you suffer from it or something similar yourself.  You consider him a hero because you cannot understand or acknowledge that he's done real damage to real people you don't know about.  Instead, you think this:

whidbey: And if anything, it takes a lot of courage to stand up to nearly indefensible policy like the NSA, or for that matter, the US as the aggressively hypocritical mega-state it's become.


That's a great sentiment if you don't care about anything except your own narrow worldview.  In order to support it you have to actively reject knowledge of any third party that may do harm and instead focus your ire on the NSA or the US, as you've so clearly stated.  Then you have to believe that one person who stole snippets of a whole story is more correct than a collective of millions over the years, and more importantly that any third party is just a figment of the collective's imagination or a non-concern based on your own personal belief.

If that's not megalomania, then maybe it's just good old-fashioned narcissism or myopia.
 
2014-01-29 06:46:59 PM  

kindms: But to say there is not a cult of democrats that do whatever it takes to bend over backwards to excuse anything their guy does is laughable.


Speaking of "laughable."

He doesn't get a pass from me just because he has a D next to his name

Because anyone who supports the achievements of the past 5 years must be partisan hacks. All of us.
 
2014-01-29 06:48:52 PM  

whidbey: kindms: But to say there is not a cult of democrats that do whatever it takes to bend over backwards to excuse anything their guy does is laughable.

Speaking of "laughable."

He doesn't get a pass from me just because he has a D next to his name

Because anyone who supports the achievements of the past 5 years must be partisan hacks. All of us.


Achievements?  Like the XBox1?   Another NASCAR championship for the JJ?  Penis transplants?
 
2014-01-29 06:49:26 PM  

Lsherm: Either/or depending on which side you fall.


Ahh, I see.

This has become one of those issues where someone picks a "side," where their alignment is based on their worldview.  Facts are then culled to fit to their preconceived notions, and build a narrative.

Like most politics.

Neat.
 
2014-01-29 06:50:28 PM  

Chris Ween: whidbey: kindms: But to say there is not a cult of democrats that do whatever it takes to bend over backwards to excuse anything their guy does is laughable.

Speaking of "laughable."

He doesn't get a pass from me just because he has a D next to his name

Because anyone who supports the achievements of the past 5 years must be partisan hacks. All of us.

Achievements?  Like the XBox1?   Another NASCAR championship for the JJ?  Penis transplants?


Hey, he's still letting you post.
 
2014-01-29 06:50:38 PM  

tylerdurden217: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

I really have no issues with President Obama, I even voted for him both times. But I really did not understand why he won that award. It made no sense then and it makes even less sense now.

I hope Snowden really does win the Nobel Peace Prize. I'm not saying that what he did was right or wrong. I'm not even suggesting that he would be the most deserving of the prize, but it would at least keep the conversation going regarding privacy.


Obama won that prize because of his amazing speeches, and the fact that the entire world was so sick of Bush by that point that ANYONE who gave people hope was put on a pedestal and admired.  The world truly loved Obama, right up until he took office and became the spineless little weasel pet of Wall Street he is today (to be fair, I also voted for him/drank the kool aid).  Talk, it turns out, is cheap.

Snowden, on the other hand, exposed perhaps the largest threat to true democracy in human history, at much (widely acknowledged) personal risk.  The man is the embodiment of the spirit of the award.  I've said for years that we need a Privacy Amendment to the Constitution, this was why.  Specifically, ever since Carnivore, the assholes in DC have found every way possible to get all up in everyone's business, at least now its out in the open.

On a related topic, since the grand panel in Washington investigated the Snowden leaks and decided that what the NSA was doing was illegal, when will the world be treated to watching James Clapper and General Alexander go to jail?  I thought that was what was supposed to happen when people break the law?... or did I miss something?
 
2014-01-29 06:51:46 PM  

mongbiohazard: tylerdurden217: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

I really have no issues with President Obama, I even voted for him both times. But I really did not understand why he won that award. It made no sense then and it makes even less sense now.

I hope Snowden really does win the Nobel Peace Prize. I'm not saying that what he did was right or wrong. I'm not even suggesting that he would be the most deserving of the prize, but it would at least keep the conversation going regarding privacy.

All of this except I'd say what Snowden did was clearly right, and he's a goddamn national hero.


Snowden is not a hero. He took a lot more than evidence of a collection of phone records. We have yet to find out the full dimensions of what he took. At the moment, he could as easily be a traitor who should be hanged.
 
2014-01-29 06:52:08 PM  

chitlenz: I've said for years that we need a Privacy Amendment to the Constitution, this was why.


Why do you think they'd ever give you that?
 
2014-01-29 06:52:19 PM  

whidbey: kindms: But to say there is not a cult of democrats that do whatever it takes to bend over backwards to excuse anything their guy does is laughable.

Speaking of "laughable."

He doesn't get a pass from me just because he has a D next to his name

Because anyone who supports the achievements of the past 5 years must be partisan hacks. All of us.


sorry but the person i quoted had all the excuses lined up. so i guess if you agree with that assesment of the president then yes you probably are a hack. Not saying the guy hasnt done some good but he has done a lot of bad as well.
 
2014-01-29 06:54:11 PM  

TheWhoppah: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States... to recognize our collective ability to see the fear mongering GOP asswipes politicians of both parties for who they really were and reject their "bomb bomb Iran" preemptive-war policies.  We elected, as our president, a man named  Barack Hussein Obama just a few years after falling hook-line-and-sinker for the GOP/FoxNews media lie machine regarding another man named Hussein.  I'm sure it took brass balls for Obama to even consider running for president but this award was for the everyday Americans that stood in line to vote for him.


(Fixed because it wasn't just the GOP or Fox News at the time; it was pretty much everyone doing that shiat right up until a few neurons started firing again)

That is the first logical explanation I have heard for President Obama's Peace Prize award since it was awarded.
 
2014-01-29 06:55:22 PM  

sendtodave: chitlenz: I've said for years that we need a Privacy Amendment to the Constitution, this was why.

Why do you think they'd ever give you that?


The was a time when it was possible, back around 1996 when the internet was just becoming a "thing" when this was possible.  When people discovered Carnivore, there was a big debate in geek circles, but we are notoriously lazy given time and it never did happen.

I, tragically, agree with you... it would never happen now.  Google would spend everything they had to prevent it (among an army of others).
 
2014-01-29 06:55:45 PM  
Alot fo people simply cheer against the United States.  To them, Snowden is a hero because he harmed the U.S.  Some of these people even live in the U.S.  However, under United States law, Snowden is a criminal.  Snowden knew he was breaking the law when he did it.  What separates him from other famous people who claimed political dissident status is that he fled the country and continued to break U.S. law by revealing secrets while being shielded by traditional enemies of the U.S.  That kind of makes him either a coward or a traitor.  He isn't in the same league as other great dissidents.
 
2014-01-29 06:55:50 PM  
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize.
 
2014-01-29 06:56:24 PM  

whidbey: Chris Ween: whidbey: kindms: But to say there is not a cult of democrats that do whatever it takes to bend over backwards to excuse anything their guy does is laughable.

Speaking of "laughable."

He doesn't get a pass from me just because he has a D next to his name

Because anyone who supports the achievements of the past 5 years must be partisan hacks. All of us.

Achievements?  Like the XBox1?   Another NASCAR championship for the JJ?  Penis transplants?

Hey, he's still letting you post.


He's too busy playing golf and reading petitions to deport Bieber to hunt me down.
 
2014-01-29 06:57:11 PM  

ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.


I applaud you sir.
 
2014-01-29 07:00:38 PM  
Wow, quite the follow up to their nomination of Obama for a Peace Prize.
 
2014-01-29 07:00:48 PM  
By that same logic, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg should be awarded one for ending the US monopoly on nuclear weapons.
 
2014-01-29 07:01:16 PM  

Lsherm: sendtodave: Which narrative, the one where he is only an innocent bystander, or the one where he is a malicious, monomaniacal traitor?

Either/or depending on which side you fall.  He's not really a victim, but he's also not someone who clearly thought out a plan to bring the US to its knees.  He planned to much to be a victim, and not enough to be a super-spy.

whidbey: I'm really not seeing the "megalomania" angle.

Of course you don't because you suffer from it or something similar yourself.  You consider him a hero because you cannot understand or acknowledge that he's done real damage to real people you don't know about.  Instead, you think this:

whidbey: And if anything, it takes a lot of courage to stand up to nearly indefensible policy like the NSA, or for that matter, the US as the aggressively hypocritical mega-state it's become.

That's a great sentiment if you don't care about anything except your own narrow worldview.  In order to support it you have to actively reject knowledge of any third party that may do harm and instead focus your ire on the NSA or the US, as you've so clearly stated.  Then you have to believe that one person who stole snippets of a whole story is more correct than a collective of millions over the years, and more importantly that any third party is just a figment of the collective's imagination or a non-concern based on your own personal belief.

If that's not megalomania, then maybe it's just good old-fashioned narcissism or myopia.


Forgive me if I dismiss your comment as a bunch of patronizing bullshiat.

Snowden blew the whistle on a government he knew was overstepping its bounds. And god knows how much harm has already been done by their zeal, hypocrisy and violation of other people's rights.
 
2014-01-29 07:03:59 PM  

dittybopper: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

Moreso, actually:  Obama got his for, well, no one really knows, because he hadn't actually done much at that point except win an election.

You could argue that Snowden, by exposing the pervasive surveillance capabilities of the NSA, made us all a little bit more free, if only because we *KNOW* we're being surveilled now.


Well, he degraded the standing of the US in the eyes of the rest of the world, caused increased tensions with many allies (and non allies), and therefore the world in general. More or less the opposite of peace, IMHO.

People can say "Well, too bad, the US deserves all the fallout" but realistically, exposing the seamy underbelly of more-or-less-necessary (imho) government mechanisms of just one country, without providing the same info on all other countries for comparison, was not really a helpful thing to anyone, anywhere.

Anyone who has ever been married, or raised children, would know that the ideal of "it is *always* good to shine light on all information and behavior" is a flawed ideal. Ideals are great, openness is usually great - but with maturity perspective and experience, we all eventually learn that not everything ends up being nicely categorized into "good" and "evil" - and this is especially true when it comes to the choices that need to be made at the scale we are discussing. There are always sacrifices, and extremely difficult choices.

Snowdon was an idealist, and he knew that his leaks would appeal to other idealists who lack that perspective, to paranoids, and to others who fear the government - and he has their support now. But we, all of us, are most certainly not safer now - neither are the operatives he exposed who have since been executed - those same operatives who had been making their own sacrifices and difficult choices. And neither are those whom those operatives protected.

The tragedy of all of this is that there are thousands upon thousands of "good" people, doing their best to be honest and trustworthy, and doing their best to protect not only their own families, or even just the families of their own countrymen, but people doing their best to protect everyone -who had access to the same information, and realized that the best choice would be to protect that information in the best interests of everyone - the tragedy is that Snowden undermined all of their efforts, for his own misguided sense of idealism. He betrayed the trust of many, many, MANY "good" people doing their best to do "good" things for "good" reasons while forced to make extremely difficult sacrifices and choices to reach those "good" goals.

This isn't about one nation over another, or about patriotism or jingoism - all those who govern and protect all nations have to make similar choices - choices that would look equally bad if held up to the light outside of their normal context.

Snowden is no hero to thoughtful people.
 
2014-01-29 07:04:43 PM  

Animatronik: mongbiohazard: tylerdurden217: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

I really have no issues with President Obama, I even voted for him both times. But I really did not understand why he won that award. It made no sense then and it makes even less sense now.

I hope Snowden really does win the Nobel Peace Prize. I'm not saying that what he did was right or wrong. I'm not even suggesting that he would be the most deserving of the prize, but it would at least keep the conversation going regarding privacy.

All of this except I'd say what Snowden did was clearly right, and he's a goddamn national hero.

Snowden is not a hero. He took a lot more than evidence of a collection of phone records. We have yet to find out the full dimensions of what he took. At the moment, he could as easily be a traitor who should be hanged.


Treason is giving aid and comfort  to an enemy. Who is our enemy? Embarrassing office holders who are malefactors isn't treason.
 
2014-01-29 07:06:09 PM  

ISO15693: Snowden is no hero to thoughtful people.



Did you dislocate your shoulder doing that?
 
2014-01-29 07:07:04 PM  

Rent Party: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

They have both done the exact same thing.  Not being George Bush.


Obama is not George Bush? Besides being black and being able to speak English above a ninth grade level, how is Obama not George Bush on steroids? Bush used to have wet dreams about the shiat Obama has done.
 
2014-01-29 07:07:22 PM  

whidbey: tylerdurden217: I really have no issues with President Obama, I even voted for him both times. But I really did not understand why he won that award. It made no sense then and it makes even less sense now.

It totally made sense. It was the world's way of thanking the US for not electing another stupid warmonger like Bush. Yes, I know we're still stuck cleaning up his legacy in Afghanistaq. But in the last 5 years, Obama has also somehow managed to deflect the hardliners' war hardon to attack Iran and North Korea, so that is actually saying something. Romney, had he been elected, would have been pushing for both.


Sure had a boner for Syria though didn't he..
 
2014-01-29 07:08:20 PM  
Considering his best man and 1/2 brother is calling for the demise of Israel, yeah, Father Oombama deserves it.
 
2014-01-29 07:09:33 PM  

Mouser: By that same logic, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg should be awarded one for ending the US monopoly on nuclear weapons.


Hm, that's hard to argue with. One day, these guys will win the prize, too, just like this guy.
 
2014-01-29 07:09:41 PM  

yakmans_dad: ISO15693: Snowden is no hero to thoughtful people.


Did you dislocate your shoulder doing that?


Adults don't have ideals.
 
2014-01-29 07:13:45 PM  

ISO15693: But we, all of us, are most certainly not safer now - neither are the operatives he exposed who have since been executed


Who was executed?
 
2014-01-29 07:20:45 PM  

cowgirl toffee: I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize.


I nominate cowgirl toffee !!
 
2014-01-29 07:21:05 PM  

whidbey: Who the hell is advocating that? Drew's Heineken Troll Cabal?


Sitting farking Senators and members of the House, for starters.
 
2014-01-29 07:23:33 PM  

Slartibartfaster: cowgirl toffee: I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize.

I nominate cowgirl toffee !!


*giggles* I accept!  *click click*
 
2014-01-29 07:28:50 PM  
A real troll would have nominated him for the Nobel Prize for Literature.
 
2014-01-29 07:32:27 PM  
If Snowden wins it, there won't be enough '1's on the entire Internet to fully describe that level of hell ya.
 
2014-01-29 07:35:44 PM  
Just stopped by to say the NRA has filed an amicus brief in ACLU v. Clapper, the lawsuit made possible by the Verizon order disclosed by future laureate Snowden.
 
2014-01-29 07:37:42 PM  

Aigoo: TheWhoppah: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States... to recognize our collective ability to see the fear mongering

GOP asswipes politicians of both parties for who they really were and reject their "bomb bomb Iran" preemptive-war policies.  We elected, as our president, a man named  Barack Hussein Obama just a few years after falling hook-line-and-sinker for the GOP/FoxNews media lie machine regarding another man named Hussein.  I'm sure it took brass balls for Obama to even consider running for president but this award was for the everyday Americans that stood in line to vote for him.

(Fixed because it wasn't just the GOP or Fox News at the time; it was pretty much everyone doing that shiat right up until a few neurons started firing again)

That is the first logical explanation I have heard for President Obama's Peace Prize award since it was awarded.


Fair enough.  If I recall correctly just about every news outlet except maybe Pacifica/DemocracyNow was cheerleading for war, at least until 2006 or so.  I just remembered the GOP/FoxNews crap because they continued trying to sell that LoadOfshiat into 2009.
 
2014-01-29 07:43:02 PM  
just wanted to say I was part of this.  Flame on.
 
2014-01-29 07:51:53 PM  

sendtodave: yakmans_dad: ISO15693: Snowden is no hero to thoughtful people.


Did you dislocate your shoulder doing that?

Adults don't have ideals.


They do. They also usually understand the nature of ideals. They are goals, but not always perfect, absolute ones.

An adult can have the ideal "It is always good to tell the truth" and they will still be able to recognize the importance of lying when your wife asks if she looks fat in these pants. You still have the ideal. You just know it doesn't apply in all situations. It isn't absolute.
 
2014-01-29 07:59:28 PM  
Snowden deserves this prize more than all you moronic bootlickers on this shiatty board. You have no sense of justice or freedom. Authoritarian fark holes. You actually use the word "loyalty" when speaking of the US government? Are you farking crazy? These farkers will kill your whole farking family without blinking an eye. They don't care about their own citizens. They care about power and control. This man is a hero. Future history books will bear that out.
 
2014-01-29 08:01:05 PM  

ISO15693: sendtodave: yakmans_dad: ISO15693: Snowden is no hero to thoughtful people.


Did you dislocate your shoulder doing that?

Adults don't have ideals.

They do. They also usually understand the nature of ideals. They are goals, but not always perfect, absolute ones.

An adult can have the ideal "It is always good to tell the truth" and they will still be able to recognize the importance of lying when your wife asks if she looks fat in these pants. You still have the ideal. You just know it doesn't apply in all situations. It isn't absolute.


The gag about "ideals" wasn't mine. (I don't understand why adults don't have them. But then I'm approaching 2nd childhood.) My objection was to the guy trying to preempt the quality of being "thoughtful", As my joke indicated, the self-congratulation was a bit thick. I like to imagine that exposing how vast and obtrusive the abuses of the NSA had become was a great good.
 
2014-01-29 08:01:14 PM  

whidbey: Lsherm: sendtodave: Which narrative, the one where he is only an innocent bystander, or the one where he is a malicious, monomaniacal traitor?

Either/or depending on which side you fall.  He's not really a victim, but he's also not someone who clearly thought out a plan to bring the US to its knees.  He planned to much to be a victim, and not enough to be a super-spy.

whidbey: I'm really not seeing the "megalomania" angle.

Of course you don't because you suffer from it or something similar yourself.  You consider him a hero because you cannot understand or acknowledge that he's done real damage to real people you don't know about.  Instead, you think this:

whidbey: And if anything, it takes a lot of courage to stand up to nearly indefensible policy like the NSA, or for that matter, the US as the aggressively hypocritical mega-state it's become.

That's a great sentiment if you don't care about anything except your own narrow worldview.  In order to support it you have to actively reject knowledge of any third party that may do harm and instead focus your ire on the NSA or the US, as you've so clearly stated.  Then you have to believe that one person who stole snippets of a whole story is more correct than a collective of millions over the years, and more importantly that any third party is just a figment of the collective's imagination or a non-concern based on your own personal belief.

If that's not megalomania, then maybe it's just good old-fashioned narcissism or myopia.

Forgive me if I dismiss your comment as a bunch of patronizing bullshiat.

Snowden blew the whistle on a government he knew was overstepping its bounds. And god knows how much harm has already been done by their zeal, hypocrisy and violation of other people's rights.


Which is why he should come home and face the people he helped in a jury trial
 
2014-01-29 08:09:32 PM  

Publikwerks: Which is why he should come home and face the people he helped in a jury trial


Joke? Not a joke?
 
2014-01-29 08:13:04 PM  

Publikwerks: Snowden blew the whistle on a government he knew was overstepping its bounds. And god knows how much harm has already been done by their zeal, hypocrisy and violation of other people's rights.

Which is why he should come home and face the people he helped in a jury trial


"Should" being the keyword.

But the truth is that the government has been fighting any judicial review of the NSA's activities and Snowden would not get a fair trial.

And counting on public outcry to either change the outcome, overturn a conviction, or more likely, insist that Snowden get a fair trial in the first place after he gets tossed into Gitmo (or worse) isn't likely, either.

He's better off where he is until this country swallows some of its hubris and comes down to join the rest of us.
 
2014-01-29 08:17:16 PM  

whidbey: Snowden blew the whistle on a government he knew was overstepping its bounds.


You blow the whistle after finding a wrongdoing, attempting to fix it, and then going public when your complaints fall on deaf ears.  You don't set out to find wrongdoing, skip step two, and then claim victimhood at step three and get to call yourself a whistleblower, nor a "victim" for that matter.

I'm sorry if you find that patronizing, but when a child tells throws a tantrum when she gets punished for good reason, that's what happens.
 
2014-01-29 08:17:18 PM  

SirEattonHogg: So, you can't discern the difference between a private citizen who writes political articles critical of a government but neither works for the government nor has access to any sensitive information versus a person who signed a confidentiality agreement with his employer (a government), had access to a lot of state secrets and then fled to various foreign countries revealing sensitive state secrets along the way.

Okay, that makes sense.



Snowden is the very definition of a whistleblower.   His employer is engaged in illegal and unconstitutional behavior.   Given who his employer is (a contractor for the NSA) there is zero chance he can follow the usual legal channels.   The Whitehouse would slap an injunction of silence the moment he walked into the DOJ to blow that whistle.  Given there was no viable recourse within the Fourth Estate, he had to seek out the Fifth Estate.  Given the behavior of our Fifth Estate throughout the ramp up to the Iraq war and post Iraq reporting it would be clear that any domestic paper would turn him over to the authorities and shirk their job.  So, off he must go.

What he did was different than a political dissident.  The Chinese political dissident was making absolutely no impact on the regime he was fighting.
 
2014-01-29 08:25:37 PM  

Lsherm: whidbey: Snowden blew the whistle on a government he knew was overstepping its bounds.

You blow the whistle after finding a wrongdoing, attempting to fix it, and then going public when your complaints fall on deaf ears.  You don't set out to find wrongdoing, skip step two, and then claim victimhood at step three and get to call yourself a whistleblower, nor a "victim" for that matter.


Except he is a whistleblower. He isn't merely "calling himself one."

And if there is a distinct possibility that justice will not serve a US citizen attempting to defend his actions, then yes Snowden is a victim.

Neither example depends on your convoluted revisionist definitions.

I'm sorry if you find that patronizing, but when a child tells throws a tantrum when she gets punished for good reason, that's what happens.

It's cute you think this is an open and shut, cut and dried matter, and that there shouldn't be any protections in place for someone who basically showed the world the hypocritical kind of bullshiat our government is doing.
 
2014-01-29 08:28:27 PM  
Remember when the prize actually meant something?

Can you get much for it at the hock shop?
 
2014-01-29 08:34:48 PM  
Here's a transcript of today's threat assessment hearing in the Senate Intelligence Committee, in which Clapper and others denounce Snowden.  It is long and may make you angry.  There is a lot of fawning over the military men and their projects by senators Feinstein, King, Mikulski, Rockefeller and some others.  Only Wyden and Udall pose tough questions, and they are brushed aside with non-answers.  Udall pushes CIA director Brennan on detention and interrogation and is brushed aside.

Incredibly, Mikulski calls for the whole surveillance thing to go to the Supreme Court for an advisory opinion so we can put this whole thing behind us.  She has maybe never heard of the case or controversy requirement.
 
2014-01-29 08:34:53 PM  

cowgirl toffee: xanadian: oren0: Hard Nard: brantgoose: ...

/no, but seriously, there's no way Snowden escapes martyr status of the US gets his hands on him

Snowden is going to die of heavy metals poison when he's accidentally poked with an umbrella or a fountain pen.


The U.S. just doesn't assassinate highly public nonviolent people in that manner, for fear of losing face.  Instead, our government gives a mock/show trial and shoves them in a hole forever in either Guantanamo, Cuba or Florence, Colorado.

Rob Hanssen did a lot worse than Ed Snowden, and yet Rob is still rotting away in ADX Florence, rather than dead of radioactive polonium like the FSB uses.
 
2014-01-29 08:35:01 PM  

smoky2010: I can't wait until that little prick gets "Rosenburged".

\Thats what you do to traitors


I can't wait til you & your kind get Stazi'd.

/that's what you do to craven shiatizens
 
2014-01-29 08:41:19 PM  
Whether you like Snowden, I think everyone from all parts of the political spectrum can agree that Clapper needs to be put in jail.     He is either in a conspiracy to subvert the constitution with elements in the Whitehouse, or he has lied to his superiors and violated the law of his own accord.
 
2014-01-29 08:45:00 PM  
...and if I could spit in Feinstein's face, I would.  Absolutely nothing to lose in her utterly safe Senate seat and still plays along with criminals like this, which implies that she endorses it.  She is on the committees that have been briefed in private about the nastiest practices at the NSA.    She is a person who could have stopped it. She had real power in this.
 
2014-01-29 08:45:35 PM  

dbaggins: Whether you like Snowden, I think everyone from all parts of the political spectrum can agree that Clapper needs to be put in jail.     He is either in a conspiracy to subvert the constitution with elements in the Whitehouse, or he has lied to his superiors and violated the law of his own accord.


yep
 
2014-01-29 08:49:45 PM  
whidbey
It didn't happen

Umm it was last, what, May? Obama wanted to bomb Syria, Congress said no, and Putin brokered the deal that Syria would voluntarily "destroy" its chemical weapons. This happened, O'Brien.

The fact that we are still farking around the world stage is an indication of a much bigger problem than a cautious President.

Again with the assumption that Obama really truly means well but has his hands tied by The System.
Things make much more sense when you realize that the moderate-conservative Democrats like him and the Clintons really truly are more acolytes of Reagan than people like you prefer to believe. I mean, god damn, how can a person look at Obama calling Showden a criminal for releasing this important information which will endanger agents and vital security efforts, but which has no effect on the security agencies, and everything the agencies have been doing is legal, but we're going to review it and make changes, but those reviews have nothing to do with Snowden or the leaks, and not feel physically disgusted?


Deja_VooDoo
You could also argue that he made us less free by revealing an intelligence method. Sources and Methods are two of the most closely guarded secrets. Now that this is publically known, the NSA does not need to use nearly as much discretion when acting on data collected by the means Snowden revealed. They're still collecting the data. Now they can use it without fear of revealing how they got it

Or, we destroy the NSA
And the CIA and most of the FBI, while we're at it.
/the rest of the FBI can go later


Lsherm
I also don't appreciate blanket disclosure of state secrets without any concern for the damage it may cause, which is precisely the business Wikileaks is in.

Hmm, it seems like there should be a term for damage caused to innocent bystanders in the vicinity of an intended target.

he seems unwilling to accept that.

You're the one who's unwilling to accept the reality of the situation, which is that these security agencies are profoundly and fundamentally evil. I'm constantly amazed by the mental prowess people show in this feat of forcing themselves to ignore what is staring them plainly in the face.
 
2014-01-29 09:01:00 PM  

vudukungfu: dbaggins: Whether you like Snowden, I think everyone from all parts of the political spectrum can agree that Clapper needs to be put in jail.     He is either in a conspiracy to subvert the constitution with elements in the Whitehouse, or he has lied to his superiors and violated the law of his own accord.

yep


just like we should have Lewis Libby in jail.

Somehow after a certain level of power and connections you are immune to serving time in jail.
 
2014-01-29 09:01:51 PM  
At least Snowden did something

Zero on the other hand...
 
2014-01-29 09:07:50 PM  
Everyone in the House Intelligence Committee should stand trial for treason.
 
2014-01-29 09:16:43 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: Snowden didn't reveal anything anyone with a functioning brain stem knew since at least 2006.


 He just confirmed our fears. Snowden for president!
 
2014-01-29 09:17:19 PM  
not sure how he promoted peace... If anything he stirred the pot
 
2014-01-29 09:18:52 PM  

MrEricSir: Everyone in the House Intelligence Committee should stand trial for treason.


What would be the point? Hell, we let Dubya and his cronies walk - why would we let some questionable Representatives swing? And, keep in mind, it's not like Obama didn't know or sign off on some of this crap. Some of it was put in place during Dubya's regime, and Obama went, "yeah, that's good - keep that up."

The reason everyone wants Snowden nailed is because no one looks good on this one, politically speaking. Far too much of our government is complicit in what came out - not just the illegal foreign surveillance and the abominable overreach of domestic surveillance, but also the industrial espionage Snowden alluded to a couple of weeks ago. There's more in that paperwork than we know about, and that should scare all of us - the stuff we know about is just the stuff that the media's been willing to report.
 
2014-01-29 09:23:47 PM  

whidbey: t's cute you think this is an open and shut, cut and dried matter, and that there shouldn't be any protections in place for someone who basically showed the world the hypocritical kind of bullshiat our government is doing.


I already outlined two steps he skipped.  You are substituting the result for everything that happened before it, and in that reasoning you are the one who considers it open and shut.  I wouldn't even tell you that you need to reconsider your own opinion about the case except that you are clearly projecting.  I'll just follow this comment with a more egregious example of it:

RanDomino: You're the one who's unwilling to accept the reality of the situation, which is that these security agencies are profoundly and fundamentally evil. I'm constantly amazed by the mental prowess people show in this feat of forcing themselves to ignore what is staring them plainly in the face.


I'd assume that on any given day RanDomino considers him/herself an intelligent human being, but that's not an intelligent post.  May as well be shouting about the devil.

So go back, take some time to look at all the facts of the case that have been released, and then post.  I didn't call him a criminal, I said he was ignorant about what he did.  Apparently so are you.  What should be alarming to you is that you haven't bothered to do any research, you're just bleating like you think the security apparatus is.
 
2014-01-29 09:25:03 PM  
whidbey
Because anyone who supports the achievements of the past 5 years must be partisan hacks. All of us.

The problem is that people like you seem to believe, whether honestly or simply to go to bat for Dear Leader, that the "achievements" of the past 5 years are anywhere near sufficient. Or even existent. Can I point to Wisconsin, where the Democrats not only completely failed in every way imaginable (ooh, lesbian senator, well that makes up for it), but the political/organizational default strategy of "Umm I dunno, vote for the Democrats?" directly siphoned away energy and resources for a strategy that may have actually worked. What that strategy may have been I won't get into right now, other than to point out that the leftists and anarchists were saying that throwing all of our chips on the Democrats was an idiotic plan, and we were completely farking right.
And now look at the result. Union membership down 75% in the state. Other states are raising their minimum wages and it's going to take action at the federal level to change it in Wisconsin. Every environmental regulation is gradually being repealed. Now they're doing the ol' "Let's mail everyone a check during an election year" trick, never mind the structural debt. And it's because of you and people like you who have decided that the only kind of action that it's OK to take is volunteering to elect Democrats, because no matter how right-wing they are they're still better than the Republicans and that is literally the only thing that matters.


ISO15693
neither are the operatives he exposed who have since been executed

You know what? Good. I don't even care that you're on some bullshiat in saying this, and that you take it simply as an article of faith under the Cult of the State that the Very Serious Men Wearing Suits said this and therefore it must be true. Even if it is true, the odds are pretty solid that if these operatives are working for the US government then they were probably doing evil, or at least aiding and abetting it. No tears for them.

The tragedy of all of this is that there are thousands upon thousands of "good" people, doing their best to be honest and trustworthy, and doing their best to protect not only their own families, or even just the families of their own countrymen, but people doing their best to protect everyone -who had access to the same information, and realized that the best choice would be to protect that information in the best interests of everyone - the tragedy is that Snowden undermined all of their efforts, for his own misguided sense of idealism. He betrayed the trust of many, many, MANY "good" people doing their best to do "good" things for "good" reasons while forced to make extremely difficult sacrifices and choices to reach those "good" goals.

img.pandawhale.com


4tehsnowflakes
Just stopped by to say the NRA has filed an amicus brief in ACLU v. Clapper, the lawsuit made possible by the Verizon order disclosed by future laureate Snowden.

Ahahahahaha that is wonderful. Both because it's good and because of all the heads exploding across 'Merka.


Lsherm
You blow the whistle after finding a wrongdoing, attempting to fix it, and then going public when your complaints fall on deaf ears. You don't set out to find wrongdoing, skip step two, and then claim victimhood at step three and get to call yourself a whistleblower, nor a "victim" for that matter.

I'm sorry, but no one who claims that the US government has a remotely legitimate process for whistleblowers has any right to be calling anyone a "child".
 
2014-01-29 09:26:40 PM  

FormlessOne: but also the industrial espionage Snowden alluded to a couple of weeks ago


For any one Snowden, there are probably 40 slimy Booz-Allen-Hamilton rats that are *selling* their intelligence on the black market.

and nobody will touch them, since Booz-Allen-Hamilton probably has dirt on everyone.

They all want Snowden gone and off the radar before people start to wise up.
 
2014-01-29 09:29:25 PM  

Lsherm: I already outlined two steps he skipped.


Those two steps were not viable.   get it ?  The people that are assigned to protect a whistleblower through the proper channels are in on it in this case.

The Executive branch is not going to protect you from the other part of the Executive branch you are blowing the whistle on.  Not at this level of illegality and blowback.
 
2014-01-29 09:31:03 PM  

vodka: not sure how he promoted peace... If anything he stirred the pot


He revealed how we are being watched by the government. That promotes peace by helping prevent the suppression of dissent.
 
2014-01-29 09:34:43 PM  

sendtodave: smoky2010: sendtodave: SirEattonHogg: TheWhoppah:  wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

Giving the award to Obama was a gesture to recognize the citizen voters of the United States... to recognize our collective ability to see the fear mongering GOP asswipes for who they really were and reject their "bomb bomb Iran" preemptive-war policies.  We elected, as our president, a man named  Barack Hussein Obama just a few years after falling hook-line-and-sinker for the GOP/FoxNews lie machine regarding another man named Hussein.  I'm sure it took brass balls for Obama to even consider running for president but this award was for the everyday Americans that stood in line to vote for him.

Probably the dumbest post on Fark today.  Good jerb.

This. A gesture to the voters of the US?  Get the f--k out of here.

It was a plain and simple "f--k you" to Dubya.   I didn't like Bush, but it was akin to Europeans constantly whining about America this and that during the entire two terms of George Bush.  I don't think the American public needs a pat on the head from the Nobel Prize Committee for how it votes or condemnation either.

They think we do.

Have you ever met an actual European?   When you tell them you are from America, they start speaking slowly and simply, because they assume you are a child.

"That's good, American Johnny!  You finally learned that voting for Republican is wrong!  Oh, no, maybe not, you just allowed them to shut down your government.  Keep trying, Johnny!"

They just know that they are the real adults in the room.

So, democrats are adults and republicans children.. what about unaffiliated voters? I assume we are the group standing in the corner watching the adults and children try to one-up each other, laughing.

No, Europeans are adults and Americans are children.  This is obvious to them, based on the stupidity of those who we elect.

Good guess though!  Keep practicing, Johnny!


I always get a kick out of European elitism. I was born in Europe, traveled there quite extensively, and know a little bit about their history. These are the people that elected Margaret Thatcher, Charles De Gaule, and Hitler, for farks sake. So next time a European gives you shiat, point out that our insane leaders are only more prominent than theirs because our country is bigger than their continent.
 
2014-01-29 09:41:14 PM  

vodka: not sure how he promoted peace... If anything he stirred the pot


so dumb.   Want to know how you get a totalitarian regime started ?   and how you keep one alive and well ?


There was a time, perhaps several years ago now, where most of the population of Earth listed the USA as the greatest threat to peace.   When pressed for details in follow up polling most people felt that the USA was still a good example of how you should treat your *own* citizens.  If a country with the resources and influence and power like the USA starts down a road of allowing an organization like the KGB or the Stasi to operate against it's own citizens.....

For starters, democracy breaks down.  Even our pussy-version of democracy is the main impediment to a truly rapacious foreign policy.

The only pot that got stirred up here is amongst our allies.  and we are not in particular danger of a war breaking out with them.  Our enemies are not surprised at all by any of this.  In fact, it has settled them down if anything, since the old western allegiances are a bit muddled right now.
 
2014-01-29 09:46:17 PM  

jshine: whidbey: OH THE HUMANITY I MISS CHEESEBURGERS!"


Holy shiat, I ate at that McDonald's, and it was absolutely delicious. And it's always packed.
 
2014-01-29 09:52:17 PM  
Lsherm
So go back, take some time to look at all the facts of the case that have been released, and then post. I didn't call him a criminal, I said he was ignorant about what he did. Apparently so are you. What should be alarming to you is that you haven't bothered to do any research, you're just bleating like you think the security apparatus is.

I went back and looked again at what you said earlier. Let's take a look at this gem:

you have to believe that one person who stole snippets of a whole story is more correct than a collective of millions over the years

Would that be the same 'collective of millions' that gave us this gem?
2010.newsweek.com

No, you simply believe that the US is fundamentally Good, in your gut. Reality be damned. Facts be damned. Pattern recognition be damned.

The thing is, it's not that hard to understand how people who are themselves not particularly evil, and in fact are generally decent and caring individuals, can be turned into doing and supporting evil acts. There's even a book about it:
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-01-29 09:52:59 PM  

Finger51: Rent Party: He is no different than the asshole that let Valerie Plame's status be known.

Scooter Libby?

Rent Party: He effectively broke into your house, stole your filing cabinet and then pulled out that "questionable" tax return and declared you a tax evader.

I guess I don't see it that way. Him stealing my docs and declaring me a tax evader is a pretty huge stretch. My tax evasion doesn't equate to the US government spying on citizens, shiatting on the 4th, and absolutely destroying high levels of trust amongst our allies (Merkel et al)

nope. not even close.


You mean Angela "I totally swear I'm not a spy for the nazi party no matter what evidence you have" Merkel? You know, I've spoken to quite a few Germans about this recently, and most of them aren't terribly upset by the NSA tapping of her phone, and think it was probably deserved.
 
2014-01-29 10:27:26 PM  

Lusiphur: You mean Angela "I totally swear I'm not a spy for the nazi party no matter what evidence you have" Merkel? You know, I've spoken to quite a few Germans about this recently, and most of them aren't terribly upset by the NSA tapping of her phone, and think it was probably deserved.


All nations spy on every other, friendly or not.  The leader of a foreign government seems like a legitimate espionage target to me, unlike many of the other targets the NSA's been accused of listening to lately.

And Germany can spy on Obama if it wants.  Of course, either side is entitled to counterintelligence efforts.
 
2014-01-29 10:58:53 PM  
ISO15693: dittybopper: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

Moreso, actually:  Obama got his for, well, no one really knows, because he hadn't actually done much at that point except win an election.

You could argue that Snowden, by exposing the pervasive surveillance capabilities of the NSA, made us all a little bit more free, if only because we *KNOW* we're being surveilled now.

Well, he degraded the standing of the US in the eyes of the rest of the world, caused increased tensions with many allies (and non allies), and therefore the world in general. More or less the opposite of peace, IMHO.

People can say "Well, too bad, the US deserves all the fallout" but realistically, exposing the seamy underbelly of more-or-less-necessary (imho) government mechanisms of just one country, without providing the same info on all other countries for comparison, was not really a helpful thing to anyone, anywhere.

Anyone who has ever been married, or raised children, would know that the ideal of "it is *always* good to shine light on all information and behavior" is a flawed ideal. Ideals are great, openness is usually great - but with maturity perspective and experience, we all eventually learn that not everything ends up being nicely categorized into "good" and "evil" - and this is especially true when it comes to the choices that need to be made at the scale we are discussing. There are always sacrifices, and extremely difficult choices.

Snowdon was an idealist, and he knew that his leaks would appeal to other idealists who lack that perspective, to paranoids, and to others who fear the government - and he has their support now. But we, all of us, are most certainly not safer now - neither are the operatives he exposed who have since been executed - those same operatives who had been making their own sacrifices and difficult choices. And neither are those whom those operatives protected.

The tragedy of all of this is that there are thousands upon thousands of "good" people, doing their best to be honest and trustworthy, and doing their best to protect not only their own families, or even just the families of their own countrymen, but people doing their best to protect everyone -who had access to the same information, and realized that the best choice would be to protect that information in the best interests of everyone - the tragedy is that Snowden undermined all of their efforts, for his own misguided sense of idealism. He betrayed the trust of many, many, MANY "good" people doing their best to do "good" things for "good" reasons while forced to make extremely difficult sacrifices and choices to reach those "good" goals.
This isn't about one nation over another, or about patriotism or jingoism - all those who govern and protect all nations have to make similar choices - choices that would look equally bad if held up to the light outside of their normal context.
Snowden is no hero to thoughtful people.



One of the best, most thoughtful comments I've ever read on Fark.  Sadly, the entrenched know-it-alls won't listen to this profound truth because they refuse to hear it.
 
2014-01-29 11:08:14 PM  

RanDomino: Would that be the same 'collective of millions' that gave us this gem?


Oh no, I meant the millions that resulted in this:

The problem is that people like you seem to believe, whether honestly or simply to go to bat for Dear Leader, that the "achievements" of the past 5 years are anywhere near sufficient. Or even existent. Can I point to Wisconsin, where the Democrats not only completely failed in every way imaginable (ooh, lesbian senator, well that makes up for it), but the political/organizational default strategy of "Umm I dunno, vote for the Democrats?" directly siphoned away energy and resources for a strategy that may have actually worked. What that strategy may have been I won't get into right now, other than to point out that the leftists and anarchists were saying that throwing all of our chips on the Democrats was an idiotic plan, and we were completely farking right.
And now look at the result. Union membership down 75% in the state. Other states are raising their minimum wages and it's going to take action at the federal level to change it in Wisconsin. Every environmental regulation is gradually being repealed. Now they're doing the ol' "Let's mail everyone a check during an election year" trick, never mind the structural debt. And it's because of you and people like you who have decided that the only kind of action that it's OK to take is volunteering to elect Democrats, because no matter how right-wing they are they're still better than the Republicans and that is literally the only thing that matters.


Or, the copypasta.
 
2014-01-29 11:29:00 PM  

EdgeRunner: Evil does exist in the world. A non-violent movement could not have halted Hitler's armies. Negotiations cannot convince al Qaeda's leaders to lay down their arms. To say that force may sometimes be necessary is not a call to cynicism -- it is a recognition of history; the imperfections of man and the limits of reason.


And that had absolutely nothing to do with what I posted, nor what I was responding to, in any way.
 
2014-01-29 11:30:42 PM  

ISO15693: The tragedy of all of this is that there are thousands upon thousands of "good" people, doing their best to be honest and trustworthy, and doing their best to protect not only their own families, or even just the families of their own countrymen, but people doing their best to protect everyone -who had access to the same information, and realized that the best choice would be to protect that information in the best interests of everyone - the tragedy is that Snowden undermined all of their efforts, for his own misguided sense of idealism. He betrayed the trust of many, many, MANY "good" people doing their best to do "good" things for "good" reasons while forced to make extremely difficult sacrifices and choices to reach those "good" goals.



The road to hell is paved with "good" intentions.

The ends do not justify the means. We can change the laws to allow spying, we can change the constitution to allow it, but we did nether.

Why did we set up a framework for our government to work inside if we're going to ignore it for "good" goals?  Are our laws and the constitution worth so little, that we are willing to throw them out, just to gain some security?
 
2014-01-29 11:33:10 PM  

EdgeRunner: Negotiations cannot convince al Qaeda's leaders to lay down their arms. To say that force may sometimes be necessary is not a call to cynicism -- it is a recognition of history; the imperfections of man and the limits of reason.



Going off topic, but what do you, personally, think AL Qaeda wants from us?
 
2014-01-29 11:38:23 PM  

dbaggins: For any one Snowden, there are probably 40 slimy Booz-Allen-Hamilton rats that are *selling* their intelligence on the black market.

and nobody will touch them, since Booz-Allen-Hamilton probably has dirt on everyone.

They all want Snowden gone and off the radar before people start to wise up.


By "black market" you could mean political operatives.
I would be extremely surprised if we don't eventually find some sort of blackmail at the political level.
It may not be even more than a suspicion now, but 15 years from now, this will have come out.

/Yes, it took a criminal to expose the acts of the US government I believe to be criminal acts.
 
2014-01-29 11:42:34 PM  

Joe USer: EdgeRunner: Negotiations cannot convince al Qaeda's leaders to lay down their arms. To say that force may sometimes be necessary is not a call to cynicism -- it is a recognition of history; the imperfections of man and the limits of reason.


Going off topic, but what do you, personally, think AL Qaeda wants from us?


Pretty sure they're getting what they want. The US out of the way so they can focus on killing Shia/Alawite people.
 
2014-01-29 11:48:51 PM  
Well, it's been a joke for awhile now, I guess the committee just hates America more or less.
 
wee
2014-01-30 12:10:31 AM  
Anyone mentioned all the drone strikes yet?  How abut the ones that killed U.S. citizens with zero due process whatsoever?  Anyone mention that?  What about the people in gitmo that still haven't had charges filed against them?  Anyone mentioned a campaign promise from 2007 yet?
 
2014-01-30 12:32:06 AM  

xanadian: oren0: Hard Nard: brantgoose: Lookit tha funny man, Momma, his head assploded!

Come away, dear. That man's just a conservative. The cognitive dissonance of supporting law and order politics while hating and distrusting the government police state just became too much for his skull. When he tried to believe that the cops are never wrong and that the cops think of him as a terrorist at the same time, his brain just self-destructed in self-defence.

Conservative here, and I am a supporter of Snowden. Whether he wins the Nobel or not you have to admire a person who is willing to put his life, and maybe even the lives of his family and friends, to bring what he considers a violation of peoples rights into the light.

+1. In theory, anyone that supports liberty and a smaller government should applaud Snowden's actions. In practice, it seems that ordinary people across the political spectrum support Snowden, and politicians across the spectrum want him arrested and tried.

I liken it to the difference between the "correct" thing to do (obey the law) and the "right" thing to do (stick your neck out for other people's rights).  I don't think anyone on FARK knows the full breadth of what Snowden did or what the ultimate consequences will be on the world stage, so it's hard to judge fairly if what he did was "right" or not.  It sure the fark wasn't correct.

Personally, I wouldn't be saddened if he was arrested, tried and convicted.  If they strike him down, he shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

/no, but seriously, there's no way Snowden escapes martyr status of the US gets his hands on him


Meh, if a nation can be brought down by one guy then it deserves to burn.
 
2014-01-30 12:59:13 AM  

wee: Anyone mentioned all the drone strikes yet?  How abut the ones that killed U.S. citizens with zero due process whatsoever?  Anyone mention that?  What about the people in gitmo that still haven't had charges filed against them?  Anyone mentioned a campaign promise from 2007 yet?


But its not Fascism when Obummer does it.
 
2014-01-30 01:08:42 AM  

ISO15693: the tragedy is that Snowden undermined all of their efforts, for his own misguided sense of idealism. He betrayed the trust of many, many, MANY "good" people doing their best to do "good" things for "good" reasons while forced to make extremely difficult sacrifices and choices to reach those "good" goals.


No, no, no.    the reason you have to keep putting "good" in quotes is because you can't use the actual term good.

Those betrayed were criminals.  ta da!   I'm a criminal for my country.  Congratulations.  I've betrayed my constitution and every oath I took.  I'm a victim!  If you want to break our laws and be a patriot, guess what, it's now "ghost protocol".  Your service is irrelevant and you will be denied and jailed.   If you really love your country you will go to jail to save it.  THAT is the deal.   THEY chose it.

What you want to say it that is isn't fair.   Tough shiat.   Commit crimes, life gets yucky.

and has *anyone* had *any* hardship for knowlingly breaking the laws of this country ?

just Snowden.
 
2014-01-30 01:22:48 AM  
Your boss asks you to build a system to put American citizen text messages into a huge database for the NSA ?  YOU ARE AN ACCOMPLICE to a CRIME.

You write a software program to analyze patterns in cell phone traffic across all the Verizon cell phone users?  YOU ARE A CRIMINAL.  It doesn't matter if someone from the government told you to.  YOU ARE A CRIMINAL AND SHOULD STAND TRIAL.

Would you like to flip on your boss during the prosecution?  ok.  that's allowed in this land, but the fact remains that this is a plea bargain.  You committed a felony.  A federal felony.


awe, did Snowden tell everyone you were a federal felon and now you have a sad because you broke the law to be patriotic ?  well, that makes you a vigilante.  Want a plea bargain or jail time ?   You have the personal option to break the law for the good of your kinsmen and country, but that is only a factor in your sentencing, not your conviction.    There are, and I do mean this literally, tens of thousands of unindicted criminals right now working in the federal government and their private contractors.  Still today breaking the law.

None of them are being forced to stand and claim both their crime and their patriotism.   We just have a bunch of idiotic apologists that would rather destroy democracy than force these people to take the stand and plead this exact case.

I would salute any of them that would be willing to go even as far as Oliver North and tell Congress they broke the law and take full responsibility.

No, we don't do that in the USA anymore.  We can't even get someone to admit they put themselves before country and admit they broke the law.

It is all very sick.
 
2014-01-30 01:37:26 AM  

RanDomino: The fact that we are still farking around the world stage is an indication of a much bigger problem than a cautious President.

Again with the assumption that Obama really truly means well but has his hands tied by The System.
Things make much more sense when you realize that the moderate-conservative Democrats like him and the Clintons really truly are more acolytes of Reagan than people like you prefer to believe. I mean, god damn, how can a person look at Obama calling Showden a criminal for releasing this important information which will endanger agents and vital security efforts, but which has no effect on the security agencies, and everything the agencies have been doing is legal, but we're going to review it and make changes, but those reviews have nothing to do with Snowden or the leaks, and not feel physically disgusted?


Heh. God damn those "people like me" way way down there while you're way way UP there. Jesus, dude.

how can a person look at Obama calling Showden a criminal for releasing this important information which will endanger agents and vital security efforts, but which has no effect on the security agencies, and everything the agencies have been doing is legal, but we're going to review it and make changes, but those reviews have nothing to do with Snowden or the leaks, and not feel physically disgusted?

Um, Snowden did break the law and put this country at risk. You really think Obama's going to jump for joy? Frankly, whistleblowing shiat aside, it's an act of terror and espionage. Imagine if an Al Qaeda operative had done it.

Just pointing out that you're very one-sided as usual. And needlessly condescending of someone who shares many of your values. Again.
 
2014-01-30 02:04:24 AM  

whidbey: Imagine if an Al Qaeda operative had done it.


what, Al Qeada operatives provided proof of Americans violating American laws ?   heck, front page please.

what?  you say it's not "proof"  well, what would you call it ?  Here, we call it probably cause.   What prosecutor has stepped up ?

The data released and the source make it perfectly clear that we are not dealing with baseless accusations.


Saying "whistleblowing shiat aside" is a bit of a tell.    Why do you think we need a thing like whistleblowing?


I have earlier posts you have skipped in this day.
 
2014-01-30 02:07:52 AM  
The fact is, Snowden and the Guardian have been extremely careful in not releasing any information that would put one single life in danger.

You cite a counter-example and claim your Pulitzer.
 
2014-01-30 02:43:12 AM  
I didn't care when someone nominated him last year, and I still don't care this year. Tons of people have the right to nominate someone for the prize, but that doesn't give them a snowball's chance in hell of actually winning.

Not that it would matter if he did win, the whole thing's political. It's run by Sweden, and given exclusively to people Sweden promote. Like when it was given to Obama just for promising to do things. Which he never did. That was fun.
 
2014-01-30 06:13:05 AM  
Waaitaminnute - countries SPY on each other?
 
2014-01-30 08:04:31 AM  

Mouser: By that same logic, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg should be awarded one for ending the US monopoly on nuclear weapons.


JOOZE
 
2014-01-30 08:05:16 AM  

Headso: smoky2010: In hindsight, seeing what a crappy president Obama is, I'd take 4 more years of Dubya.

how old are you?


I was born during the Ford administration
 
2014-01-30 08:20:32 AM  

El Rich-o: Waaitaminnute - countries SPY on each other?


Yes, but that's not really the gist of what Edward Snowden released.

I doubt the broad outlines of what was released by Snowden surprised the intelligence agencies of any foreign nation.  For example, the Bundesnachtrichtensdeinst (BND, the German NSA) would have been well aware that it was technically possible to listen to Angela Merkel's cell phone conversations.  In fact, they probably even warned her about the possibility, and like all politicians, she thought she knew better.  And while an employee can inform the boss about a potential problem, they can't *FORCE* the boss to take action.

We had a similar situation in the US when Barack Obama wanted to keep his Blackberry.   The NSA, however, adapted to the president and produced a reasonably secure Blackberry for him to use.  The BND failed to do that for Angela Merkel until it was revealed that the NSA was listening to her phone calls.

But that's largely irrelevant to the larger issue.  Yes, the NSA listens to other nations, including the leaders of nominal allies.  That's why some intelligence is marked as "NOFORN", for "NO FOReign Nationals".  And it's not something recent:  We've been doing it for almost 100 years now:  The US listened to the diplomatic communications of it's WWI ally Japan during the Washington Naval Conference in 1921-1922, breaking their codes and using that to the advantage of the US.

The larger issue is the domestic monitoring of US citizens, and in a meta-sense, the revelation that if a nation with as open a society as the United States is subject to pervasive surveillance by their own government, then the citizens of less democratic nations are at even greater risk from their own governments.  We've seen that, and it's been reported on (example: http://www.npr.org/2011/12/14/143639670/the-technology-helping-repres s ive-regimes-spy ), but it just didn't gain the widespread attention that the NSA leaks have gotten.

Hopefully, though, the revelations will cause oppressed people to look at the possibilities of what a government can do, and look to their own use of technology, and improve it to at least minimize the dangers that they face.

And if that's what happens as a result of the NSA leaks, then Snowden will indeed deserve a Nobel Peace Prize.
 
2014-01-30 08:23:23 AM  

dittybopper: But that's largely irrelevant to the larger issue.  Yes, the NSA listens to other nations, including the leaders of nominal allies.  That's why some intelligence is marked as "NOFORN", for "NO FOReign Nationals".  And it's not something recent:  We've been doing it for almost 100 years now:  The US listened to the diplomatic communications of it's WWI ally Japan during the Washington Naval Conference in 1921-1922, breaking their codes and using that to the advantage of the US.


I shouldn't have to point out the obvious here, but I will:  The friend of today may not be the friend of tomorrow, and in fact, may be the enemy 25 years from now.  So knowing what the friend is doing today is going to help guide you in the future if circumstances change.
 
2014-01-30 08:38:42 AM  

whidbey: Um, Snowden did break the law and put this country at risk. You really think Obama's going to jump for joy? Frankly, whistleblowing shiat aside, it's an act of terror and espionage. Imagine if an Al Qaeda operative had done it.

Just pointing out that you're very one-sided as usual. And needlessly condescending of someone who shares many of your values. Again.


1.  Snowden did break the law.  No argument on that.  He revealed classified information in violation of US law, and I personally am glad that he did.  And I say that as a person who worked in the same exact same classified facility Snowden worked in, over 25 years ago.

2.  I doubt he put the US at serious risk.  The enemies of the US knew the broad outlines of US capability.  Do you know why it took so long to find Osama bin Laden?  Because he avoided pretty much *ALL* electronic communications.  He knew what the NSA could do, at least in outline, and he stymied that amazing capability for *YEARS* by resorting to low-tech manual couriers to communicate.

Likewise, the governments of other nations knew the broad outlines of what was technically possible for the NSA to accomplish, as they do similar things themselves, so it's not like the FSB or Third Department of the PLA didn't know how to do things like that.  One might even argue that the Chinese could be considered the equal of the NSA, with their iron-fisted control over the internet in China.

3.  What Snowden did was not an act of terror.  Terrorism *MUST* have an element of violence to it.

4.  What Snowden did was not an act of espionage.  He wasn't spying for another nation.
 
2014-01-30 09:36:22 AM  
whidbey
Um, Snowden did break the law and put this country at risk.

Yes and no, respectively. There's a lot of assumptions in "and put this country at risk" that could be unpacked.

You really think Obama's going to jump for joy?

He could be acknowledging that the NSA is infested with a Stasi-like culture and have the DoJ or whoever start throwing people in jail, as dbaggins pointed out. But that's about as likely as him ordering prosecutions of predatory lenders. Instead, he gives a speech vaguely claiming that there will be accountability and changes of some sort (which was totally not because of Snowden because, remember kids, only going through "proper channels" works), while giving Clapper a hand job. So now you get to choose whether Obama is this wise-but-cautious middle-of-the-road type (never mind "change") with the country's best interests at heart, or whether he actually aligns with and is a member of the same "hardliner" class that you find such a conveniently imprecise scapegoat.

Let me give you yet another example. Obama will be in Wisconsin's very own Mordor, Waukesha, today, to discuss "job training". Specifically, ostensibly getting job training programs in Milwaukee Area Technical College to align to what regional 'job creators' want.
This is a huge slap in the face to Wisconsin liberals and progressives, because this supports right-wing efforts to put MATC under the control of adjacent suburban counties in a further march toward putting control of public education in the hands of the business class, making it for-profit, and privatizing it. Obama is incontrovertibly supporting this effort by visiting Waukesha and calling for "job training".
Tell me- is this the work of "hardliners", or is this what Obama actually believes?
There will be one good thing coming out of this- there will be pictures of Obama and Walker shaking hands. I will throw that picture in the face of anyone who dares wag their finger at me for not uncritically supporting the Democrats.
 
2014-01-30 10:26:46 AM  

Khellendros: EdgeRunner: Evil does exist in the world. A non-violent movement could not have halted Hitler's armies. Negotiations cannot convince al Qaeda's leaders to lay down their arms. To say that force may sometimes be necessary is not a call to cynicism -- it is a recognition of history; the imperfections of man and the limits of reason.

And that had absolutely nothing to do with what I posted, nor what I was responding to, in any way.


KhellendrosHow is that dumb?  It's obvious to anyone who can walk and breathe at the same that while it was awarded to him, it wasn't about what he did, it was about what he represented in the U.S. - a turn away from warmongering and choosing to end two wars and institute foreign policy that wasn't about aggression and antagonism.

But the world must remember that it was not simply international institutions - not just treaties and declarations - that brought stability to a post-World War II world.  Whatever mistakes we have made, the plain fact is this:  The United States of America has helped underwrite global security for more than six decades with the blood of our citizens and the strength of our arms.  The service and sacrifice of our men and women in uniform has promoted peace and prosperity from Germany to Korea, and enabled democracy to take hold in places like the Balkans.  We have borne this burden not because we seek to impose our will.  We have done so out of enlightened self-interest, because we seek a better future for our children and grandchildren, and we believe that their lives will be better if others' children and grandchildren can live in freedom and prosperity.

So yes, the instruments of war do have a role to play in preserving the peace.
 
2014-01-30 10:36:01 AM  

EdgeRunner: Khellendros: EdgeRunner: Evil does exist in the world. A non-violent movement could not have halted Hitler's armies. Negotiations cannot convince al Qaeda's leaders to lay down their arms. To say that force may sometimes be necessary is not a call to cynicism -- it is a recognition of history; the imperfections of man and the limits of reason.

And that had absolutely nothing to do with what I posted, nor what I was responding to, in any way.

Khellendros:  How is that dumb?  It's obvious to anyone who can walk and breathe at the same that while it was awarded to him, it wasn't about what he did, it was about what he represented in the U.S. - a turn away from warmongering and choosing to end two wars and institute foreign policy that wasn't about aggression and antagonism.

But the world must remember that it was not simply international institutions - not just treaties and declarations - that brought stability to a post-World War II world.  Whatever mistakes we have made, the plain fact is this:  The United States of America has helped underwrite global security for more than six decades with the blood of our citizens and the strength of our arms.  The service and sacrifice of our men and women in uniform has promoted peace and prosperity from Germany to Korea, and enabled democracy to take hold in places like the Balkans.  We have borne this burden not because we seek to impose our will.  We have done so out of enlightened self-interest, because we seek a better future for our children and grandchildren, and we believe that their lives will be better if others' children and grandchildren can live in freedom and prosperity.

So yes, the instruments of war do have a role to play in preserving the peace.


Hail Caesar!
 
2014-01-30 10:44:32 AM  
The fact that so little has been released by Snowden speaks to his motives.  I'm certain that he has stuff that would be damaging and put lives at risk, but he hasn't.  What does that say?
 
2014-01-30 11:16:55 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: EdgeRunner: Khellendros: EdgeRunner: Evil does exist in the world. A non-violent movement could not have halted Hitler's armies. Negotiations cannot convince al Qaeda's leaders to lay down their arms. To say that force may sometimes be necessary is not a call to cynicism -- it is a recognition of history; the imperfections of man and the limits of reason.

And that had absolutely nothing to do with what I posted, nor what I was responding to, in any way.

Khellendros:  How is that dumb?  It's obvious to anyone who can walk and breathe at the same that while it was awarded to him, it wasn't about what he did, it was about what he represented in the U.S. - a turn away from warmongering and choosing to end two wars and institute foreign policy that wasn't about aggression and antagonism.

But the world must remember that it was not simply international institutions - not just treaties and declarations - that brought stability to a post-World War II world.  Whatever mistakes we have made, the plain fact is this:  The United States of America has helped underwrite global security for more than six decades with the blood of our citizens and the strength of our arms.  The service and sacrifice of our men and women in uniform has promoted peace and prosperity from Germany to Korea, and enabled democracy to take hold in places like the Balkans.  We have borne this burden not because we seek to impose our will.  We have done so out of enlightened self-interest, because we seek a better future for our children and grandchildren, and we believe that their lives will be better if others' children and grandchildren can live in freedom and prosperity.

So yes, the instruments of war do have a role to play in preserving the peace.

Hail Caesar!


/thread
 
2014-01-30 01:22:16 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: Hail Caesar!


Wrong leader. I've been quoting someone else.
 
2014-01-30 03:15:39 PM  

Lusiphur: Finger51: Rent Party: He is no different than the asshole that let Valerie Plame's status be known.

Scooter Libby?

Rent Party: He effectively broke into your house, stole your filing cabinet and then pulled out that "questionable" tax return and declared you a tax evader.

I guess I don't see it that way. Him stealing my docs and declaring me a tax evader is a pretty huge stretch. My tax evasion doesn't equate to the US government spying on citizens, shiatting on the 4th, and absolutely destroying high levels of trust amongst our allies (Merkel et al)

nope. not even close.

You mean Angela "I totally swear I'm not a spy for the nazi party no matter what evidence you have" Merkel? You know, I've spoken to quite a few Germans about this recently, and most of them aren't terribly upset by the NSA tapping of her phone, and think it was probably deserved.


I give zero farks what the Germans think. Deserved or not, spying on allies does nothing to help the US. What do we think we would actually learn? Anything actionable would only place us in a position of taking advantage of those we were spying on. I think that is fundamentally opposed to the idea of good faith, fairness and diplomacy. These are principles I want this country to champion and be known for. The benefits of us spying on Merkel are Infinitesimal in comparison to the damage we've done to our reputation as a "Free Democracy".
 
2014-01-30 03:31:23 PM  

Finger51: I give zero farks what the Germans think. Deserved or not, spying on allies does nothing to help the US. What do we think we would actually learn? Anything actionable would only place us in a position of taking advantage of those we were spying on. I think that is fundamentally opposed to the idea of good faith, fairness and diplomacy. These are principles I want this country to champion and be known for. The benefits of us spying on Merkel are Infinitesimal in comparison to the damage we've done to our reputation as a "Free Democracy".


I look at spying kind of like NCAA violations.  Everyone does it.  Everyone knows everyone does it, but when you get caught, there are penalties.  Much like Captain Renault being shocked at gambling happening at Rick's, it is a known secret.  That doesn't make it right.  However spying on others is (IMHO) acceptable and to be expected, spying on our own people is where the line is crossed.  I have no issue with the US spying on other countries, and honestly efforts are probably better spent spying on politicians in those countries, not normal people.
 
2014-01-30 06:25:08 PM  

mjbok: The fact that so little has been released by Snowden speaks to his motives.  I'm certain that he has stuff that would be damaging and put lives at risk, but he hasn't.  What does that say?


That the Russians and Chinese have paid him well to keep his mouth shut?
 
2014-01-30 06:54:48 PM  

Rent Party: wee: ManateeGag: He deserves it just as much as Obama did.

More than Obama.  Snowden actually did something.

They have both done the exact same thing.  Not being George Bush.


Snowden may have done that. I'm not so sure about Barry.
 
2014-01-30 07:45:28 PM  
It would be funny if he got it, and then Obama succeeds in catching him.

One very recent Nobel Peace Prize recipient putting the another in prison for life.  Lol.  Maybe would show how arbitrary and meaningless the selection process is.
 
2014-01-30 07:55:21 PM  

Mouser: That the Russians and Chinese have paid him well to keep his mouth shut?


Not entirely.  If he had given either China or Russia he would have been dead before the "it" of "that's it" finished echoing in the interrogation room.  He gave them enough to satisfy them that he knows more.  He's like a high school date so far.  Maybe a quick hand job in the parking lot, but if he gave up the ass he'd get dumped.

The US is in the position of a kid that got caught, but they don't know how bad.  They know that there is dirty laundry out there, but they don't know how much so they're playing it very close to the vest.
 
2014-01-30 10:24:14 PM  
You can most certainly have terrorism without violence.

What if terrorists do enough damage to the US banking system that our economy crashes?
What if terrorists electronically attack your place of business and make it fail?
What if terrorists destroy your retirement savings (ok that's a stretch....eh eh)
What if terrorists somehow cut the power to your city?
What if terrorists somehow bring down the Internet, or somehow render it unusable?
What if terrorists somehow contaminate our medicine supplies, our food and water?

Not a single bullet fired, not a single drop of shed blood, totally painless.

All they brought to you was fear.
 
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