QU!RK1019: Ow! That was my feelings!: QU!RK1019: Cyrusv10: Bu....bu...bu...but...America is a terrible, oppressive polluter. Someone should do something about American smog production!!Come take in a nice fat breath of Wasatch Front smog, where just breathing is equivalent to smoking one cigarette a day, and tell me we shouldn't do something about pollution, asswipe.So, what should we do about it? What's the solution?Alternative energy and reduced consumption.
Gig103: Almost as bad as the NYT pay wall.http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-01-28/smog-in-new-delhi-is -w orse-than-in-beijing
Nemo's Brother: MayoSlather: As much as I like to complain about the US, we're a f'ing utopia next to India. Of course Amercan capitalism has had a hand in making their country a shiat hole, but we're still better, suck it India.The Caste System still permeates in the India psyche. You really can't have a free, democratic society while that remains. They created their own problems, just like every other country.
electricjebus: Well, the other thing is that when the US industrialized our population wasn't in excess of a billion...
MayoSlather: As much as I like to complain about the US, we're a f'ing utopia next to India. Of course Amercan capitalism has had a hand in making their country a shiat hole, but we're still better, suck it India.
maxheck: DoctorOfLove:maxheck: My experience with Dehli... Libertarian paradise. Walled gardens for the wealthy, and fark the poors. What was kinda cool was the stream of scrubbed and dressed kids who filed out every day out of absolute "washing one's self from wastewater" shantytowns to attend school. People really do try hard to make sure their kids aren't farked over as hard as they are.Interesting since its a Fabian Socialist country.I don't know what Wikipedia entry you're summing up a country from.Here... Let's take a look at Dehli :[i60.tinypic.com image 850x637]
electricjebus: QU!RK1019:Maybe, I dunno. My assumption would be that the percentage of viable, harmful airborne bacteria and viruses would account for only a minuscule percentage of all particulate matter captured in a sample from Beijing, Delhi, or a Salt Lake. The reason they don't want you breathing air full of 2.5 pm isn't because you have an increased risk of infection, but because even inanimate 2.5 pm damages the lungs, and chemicals that fine are easily ingested into the blood stream. But that's just a guess.Viruses and bacteria play a part in a goddamn lot of human deaths. I'm not advocating pollution, It's a bad thing, I just really wish that reporting on the subject would be more transparent and honest. Smog causes enough problems on it's own, and there are scales to measure it, so I don't see why the article would use a scale that puts it in a category that includes unrelated viruses and bacteria, and then use that category to say why smog is a bad thing.One of the greatest values of science is it's objectivity, when you sensationalize science in journalism you devalue it.
maxheck: My experience with Dehli... Libertarian paradise. Walled gardens for the wealthy, and fark the poors. What was kinda cool was the stream of scrubbed and dressed kids who filed out every day out of absolute "washing one's self from wastewater" shantytowns to attend school. People really do try hard to make sure their kids aren't farked over as hard as they are.
Caluth: It doesn't matter how green we are here if the rest of the world is just bringing everything
ex0du5: Anyone who has been to both could tell you that. Delhi's air is foul. There is still the tradition common throughout India of burning their trash on the sides of the roads each night, the tuk tuks leave a black soot everywhere, the cow dung everywhere dries out in the dry season and gets kicked up, and the whole north of India suffers from severe hyperindustrialisation, even far from the cities. Delhi, being so concentrated, is the worst of what is generally a bad set of circumstances throughout the north (and to a lesser extent down south). Anyone who spends some time there will be blowing black boogers at some point.Beijing is bad, but it's just smog. They have ozone problems and some smoke from their own factories, but you don't smell it.Both countries are going through what the US did in the 1800's, with mostly unregulated factory growth to fuel their desperate economies, but China's centralized economy at least controls the distribution and spreads the pain around. I am not the type that argues for centralized economic planning, but it is clear that when the choice is between these two extremes, the anything goes only concentrates the toxins, causes mass migrations, and is generally an unstable situation for health.
electricjebus: QU!RK1019:http://www.epa.gov/pm/health.htmlThank you, why couldn't the article have just linked to that. Would have saved me looking like an ass. But I still maintain that if the category contains viruses and bacteria, they're the bulk of why it's a severe health risk.
electricjebus: Gig103: Almost as bad as the NYT pay wall.http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-01-28/smog-in-new-delhi-is -w orse-than-in-beijingOK, so I clicked the Yale EPI link in that article to find out why a "PM 2.5-fine particulate air pollution that poses a severe threat to human health " posed such a severe threat to human health, and I found nothing of the sort, instead I found a graphic labeling countries from best to worst on environmentalism based on how they've changed over the past few years... and the US got a 14.35 out of a hundred in forestation and a 3.34 in our fisheries... leading to our overall 33rd ranking.Which is interesting that that would drive down our overall ranking as unlike the old world, the new world didn't obliterate our old forests and fisheries as thoroughly, meaning we don't have as much to rebound from... something about three types of lies.Oh, and PM 2.5 means particulate matter 2.5 millimeters or less, which covers most bacteria and all viruses *the real reason the category is dangerous, not smog... and Smaug, while dangerous is way bigger than that.*
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