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(Boobies)   Think Beijing's famous smog Is bad? Delhi's is worse   (firstpost.com) divider line 29
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11002 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jan 2014 at 1:00 AM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-01-28 11:59:46 PM
3 votes:
2014-01-29 02:10:08 AM
2 votes:
If u think dehli's air is bad, I suggest you don't want to know about their water.
2014-01-29 01:56:24 AM
2 votes:

QU!RK1019: Ow! That was my feelings!: QU!RK1019: Cyrusv10: Bu....bu...bu...but...America is a terrible, oppressive polluter.  Someone should do something about American smog production!!

Come take in a nice fat breath of Wasatch Front smog, where just breathing is equivalent to smoking one cigarette a day, and tell me we shouldn't do something about pollution, asswipe.

So, what should we do about it? What's the solution?

Alternative energy and reduced consumption.


Riiiiiiight. Maybe you should just move your family out of a valley that naturally traps pollution, especially in the cold air of winter. We are generations away from carbon free energy, even without Asia crapping in our air.
2014-01-29 01:49:28 AM
2 votes:
Anyone who has been to both could tell you that.  Delhi's air is foul.  There is still the tradition common throughout India of burning their trash on the sides of the roads each night, the tuk tuks leave a black soot everywhere, the cow dung everywhere dries out in the dry season and gets kicked up, and the whole north of India suffers from severe hyperindustrialisation, even far from the cities.  Delhi, being so concentrated, is the worst of what is generally a bad set of circumstances throughout the north (and to a lesser extent down south).  Anyone who spends some time there will be blowing black boogers at some point.

Beijing is bad, but it's just smog.  They have ozone problems and some smoke from their own factories, but you don't smell it.

Both countries are going through what the US did in the 1800's, with mostly unregulated factory growth to fuel their desperate economies, but China's centralized economy at least controls the distribution and spreads the pain around.  I am not the type that argues for centralized economic planning, but it is clear that when the choice is between these two extremes, the anything goes only concentrates the toxins, causes mass migrations, and is generally an unstable situation for health.
2014-01-29 01:30:56 AM
2 votes:

Gig103: Almost as bad as the NYT pay wall.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-01-28/smog-in-new-delhi-is -w orse-than-in-beijing


OK, so I clicked the Yale EPI link in that article to find out why a "PM 2.5-fine particulate air pollution that poses a severe threat to human health " posed such a severe threat to human health, and I found nothing of the sort, instead I found a graphic labeling countries from best to worst on environmentalism based on how they've changed over the past few years... and the US got a 14.35 out of a hundred in forestation and a 3.34 in our fisheries... leading to our overall 33rd ranking.

Which is interesting that that would drive down our overall ranking as unlike the old world, the new world didn't obliterate our old forests and fisheries as thoroughly, meaning we don't have as much to rebound from... something about three types of lies.

Oh, and PM 2.5 means particulate matter 2.5 millimeters or less, which covers most bacteria and all viruses *the real reason the category is dangerous, not smog... and Smaug, while dangerous is way bigger than that.*
2014-01-29 06:19:44 PM
1 votes:
?
struckbyenlightning.files.wordpress.com
2014-01-29 03:07:31 PM
1 votes:
Just a few days [let alone a lifetime] of this smog is awful for you. My folks were in China and got sick within days, coughing like crazy.
2014-01-29 12:32:02 PM
1 votes:
Both countries are going through what the US did in the 1800's, with mostly unregulated factory growth to fuel their desperate economies, but China's centralized economy at least controls the distribution and spreads the pain around.

Except both countries have the knowledge and means NOT to pollute.   The West in the 1800s lacked a lot of that.  (Thanks Christianity for 1000 years of scientific stagnation).
2014-01-29 10:15:02 AM
1 votes:

Nemo's Brother: MayoSlather: As much as I like to complain about the US, we're a f'ing utopia next to India. Of course Amercan capitalism has had a hand in making their country a shiat hole, but we're still better, suck it India.

The Caste System still permeates in the India psyche. You really can't have a free, democratic society while that remains. They created their own problems, just like every other country.


India since independence has had affirmative action for members of castes considered "untouchable" in the past.  And recently that government has also adopted affirmative action (up to 50% reservation of seats in universities and government jobs) for other "backward" or underprivileged non-untouchable castes.So now the members of those benefiting castes wish to keep their castes listed as underprivileged for as long as possible and hence try to maintain the caster-list system. This means that their caste system likely will be sustained and not wither away for decades/centuries.
2014-01-29 10:02:22 AM
1 votes:

electricjebus: Well, the other thing is that when the US industrialized our population wasn't in excess of a billion...


They also didn't have the advantages of 180 years of subsequent modernization and materials advancement. There's no reason to be experiencing the same growing pains in 2010 as a nation that industrialized in 1830.
2014-01-29 08:42:20 AM
1 votes:

MayoSlather: As much as I like to complain about the US, we're a f'ing utopia next to India. Of course Amercan capitalism has had a hand in making their country a shiat hole, but we're still better, suck it India.



It's Indian capitalism.
American out-sourcing wasn't imposed on them. It was actively sought by the Indian business community and government.
2014-01-29 08:06:35 AM
1 votes:

maxheck: DoctorOfLove:

maxheck: My experience with Dehli... Libertarian paradise. Walled gardens for the wealthy, and fark the poors. What was kinda cool was the stream of scrubbed and dressed kids who filed out every day out of absolute "washing one's self from wastewater" shantytowns to attend school. People really do try hard to make sure their kids aren't farked over as hard as they are.

Interesting since its a Fabian Socialist country.

I don't know what Wikipedia entry you're summing up a country from.

Here... Let's take a look at Dehli :

[i60.tinypic.com image 850x637]


GIS for Dehli streets.

urbanhabitat.org
2014-01-29 06:43:31 AM
1 votes:
If it's like other places in the area the smog is from tuk tuks, motorbikes, and burning garbage and other stuff all the time. Spend a week there and you'll cough like a lifelong smoker.
2014-01-29 06:21:45 AM
1 votes:
Gee, tough choice...the shiathole or the shiathole?
2014-01-29 05:20:34 AM
1 votes:

electricjebus: QU!RK1019:

Maybe, I dunno. My assumption would be that the percentage of viable, harmful airborne bacteria and viruses would account for only a minuscule percentage of all particulate matter captured in a sample from Beijing, Delhi, or a Salt Lake. The reason they don't want you breathing air full of 2.5 pm isn't because you have an increased risk of infection, but because even inanimate 2.5 pm damages the lungs, and chemicals that fine are easily ingested into the blood stream. But that's just a guess.

Viruses and bacteria play a part in a goddamn lot of human deaths.  I'm not advocating pollution, It's a bad thing, I just really wish that reporting on the subject would be more transparent and honest.  Smog causes enough problems on it's own, and there are scales to measure it, so I don't see why the article would use a scale that puts it in a category that includes unrelated viruses and bacteria, and then use that category to say why smog is a bad thing.

One of the greatest values of science is it's objectivity, when you sensationalize science in journalism you devalue it.


You didn't understood my post if you thought I was saying that bacteria and viruses don't pose a threat. So I'll try putting it another way. When they're studying the ill effects of smog on the human body, they're not even including or accounting for cases where someone became infected by an airborne bacteria or virus. They're studying cases of emphysema, copd, asthma, etc, and finding that it's the superfine 2.5 micron or less particles that are causing the most harm. This is where the data is coming from. Not that they're collecting a sample of air and concluding "oh there's bacteria in the air, so therefore all small particles are bad."
2014-01-29 05:17:09 AM
1 votes:
As well as smog, they also don't mind coexisting with HUMAN TURDS lurking in every corner. Before the 2010 Commonwealth Games in Dehli, shocked international delegates were taken on a SH!AT INFESTED tour of the athletes' village.

The Indians, naturally, got all butt hurt over their guests' reaction. So they called a big press conference and played the racism card !!

British team officials threatened to pull out and spoke of a squalid, insanitary site.

"People have been defecating in all sorts of places," Craig Hunter, the English chef de mission, told The Times. Commonwealth Games Scotland said that the accommodation allocated to its athletes was "unsafe and unfit for human habitation".

Lalit Bhanot, general secretary of the Indian Organising Committee, tried to brush off the criticism. "Everyone has different standards about cleanliness. The Westerners have different standards. We have different standards," he told reporters.

In January, Mr Fennell [president of the Commonwealth Games Federation] called doubters "Western snobs", but has since been "driven nearly insane" by the lassitude of Indian officials, insiders say.



Still one of the funniest "playing of the racism card" news stories I've read.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/bridge-collapse-lack-of-readine ss -and-withdrawals-throw-games-into-crisis/story-fn66fst6-1225927667990
2014-01-29 05:07:06 AM
1 votes:

maxheck: My experience with Dehli... Libertarian paradise. Walled gardens for the wealthy, and fark the poors. What was kinda cool was the stream of scrubbed and dressed kids who filed out every day out of absolute "washing one's self from wastewater" shantytowns to attend school. People really do try hard to make sure their kids aren't farked over as hard as they are.


Interesting since its a Fabian Socialist country.
2014-01-29 05:02:45 AM
1 votes:

Caluth: It doesn't matter how green we are here if the rest of the world is just bringing everything


errr yes.... it does
do unto others ...

or

Dont shiat on the floor if you do not like shiat on the floor
2014-01-29 05:00:56 AM
1 votes:
It doesn't matter how green we are here if the rest of the world is just bringing everything
2014-01-29 04:09:41 AM
1 votes:
I was there in Nov. 2012 and the sun during the day looked like the moon.  Your lungs hurt if you did not wear a surgical mask.   At the time everyone was harvesting rice and burning rice stalks so I thought that made it worse.  Plus so much wood and cow poop burning.
2014-01-29 02:07:01 AM
1 votes:
QU!RK1019:

Maybe, I dunno. My assumption would be that the percentage of viable, harmful airborne bacteria and viruses would account for only a minuscule percentage of all particulate matter captured in a sample from Beijing, Delhi, or a Salt Lake. The reason they don't want you breathing air full of 2.5 pm isn't because you have an increased risk of infection, but because even inanimate 2.5 pm damages the lungs, and chemicals that fine are easily ingested into the blood stream. But that's just a guess.

Viruses and bacteria play a part in a goddamn lot of human deaths.  I'm not advocating pollution, It's a bad thing, I just really wish that reporting on the subject would be more transparent and honest.  Smog causes enough problems on it's own, and there are scales to measure it, so I don't see why the article would use a scale that puts it in a category that includes unrelated viruses and bacteria, and then use that category to say why smog is a bad thing.

One of the greatest values of science is it's objectivity, when you sensationalize science in journalism you devalue it.
2014-01-29 01:55:20 AM
1 votes:

ex0du5: Anyone who has been to both could tell you that.  Delhi's air is foul.  There is still the tradition common throughout India of burning their trash on the sides of the roads each night, the tuk tuks leave a black soot everywhere, the cow dung everywhere dries out in the dry season and gets kicked up, and the whole north of India suffers from severe hyperindustrialisation, even far from the cities.  Delhi, being so concentrated, is the worst of what is generally a bad set of circumstances throughout the north (and to a lesser extent down south).  Anyone who spends some time there will be blowing black boogers at some point.

Beijing is bad, but it's just smog.  They have ozone problems and some smoke from their own factories, but you don't smell it.

Both countries are going through what the US did in the 1800's, with mostly unregulated factory growth to fuel their desperate economies, but China's centralized economy at least controls the distribution and spreads the pain around.  I am not the type that argues for centralized economic planning, but it is clear that when the choice is between these two extremes, the anything goes only concentrates the toxins, causes mass migrations, and is generally an unstable situation for health.


Well, the other thing is that when the US industrialized our population wasn't in excess of a billion...

Ow! That was my feelings!:

So, what should we do about it? What's the solution?

Punch a Mormon in the gut, preferably in an upward motion.  That sort of pollution isn't even remotely necessary in that region, it's bad planning.
2014-01-29 01:50:09 AM
1 votes:

electricjebus: QU!RK1019:

http://www.epa.gov/pm/health.html

Thank you, why couldn't the article have just linked to that.  Would have saved me looking like an ass.  But I still maintain that if the category contains viruses and bacteria, they're the bulk of why it's a severe health risk.


Maybe, I dunno. My assumption would be that the percentage of viable, harmful airborne bacteria and viruses would account for only a minuscule percentage of all particulate matter captured in a sample from Beijing, Delhi, or a Salt Lake. The reason they don't want you breathing air full of 2.5 pm isn't because you have an increased risk of infection, but because even inanimate 2.5 pm damages the lungs, and chemicals that fine are easily ingested into the blood stream. But that's just a guess.
2014-01-29 01:47:02 AM
1 votes:
Now now Beijing and Delhi there's enough smog for the both of you,  no need to fight.

/cough
//wheeze
2014-01-29 01:38:57 AM
1 votes:

electricjebus: Gig103: Almost as bad as the NYT pay wall.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-01-28/smog-in-new-delhi-is -w orse-than-in-beijing

OK, so I clicked the Yale EPI link in that article to find out why a "PM 2.5-fine particulate air pollution that poses a severe threat to human health " posed such a severe threat to human health, and I found nothing of the sort, instead I found a graphic labeling countries from best to worst on environmentalism based on how they've changed over the past few years... and the US got a 14.35 out of a hundred in forestation and a 3.34 in our fisheries... leading to our overall 33rd ranking.

Which is interesting that that would drive down our overall ranking as unlike the old world, the new world didn't obliterate our old forests and fisheries as thoroughly, meaning we don't have as much to rebound from... something about three types of lies.

Oh, and PM 2.5 means particulate matter 2.5 millimeters or less, which covers most bacteria and all viruses *the real reason the category is dangerous, not smog... and Smaug, while dangerous is way bigger than that.*


http://www.epa.gov/pm/health.html
2014-01-29 01:28:51 AM
1 votes:
Also, new rule: all future submission to paywall'd sites must have url to none paywall'd articles.

Here's a (hopefully) functioning link:  http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/26/world/asia/beijings-air-would-be-s te p-up-for-smoggy-delhi.html?_r=0
2014-01-29 01:26:28 AM
1 votes:
That's what happens when third world countries try to bring a billion people to the middle class but have yet to master the concept of resource preservation or sanitation.
2014-01-29 01:16:48 AM
1 votes:
Bu....bu...bu...but...America is a terrible, oppressive polluter.  Someone should do something about American smog production!!
2014-01-29 01:06:01 AM
1 votes:
kinialohaguy.files.wordpress.com
 
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