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(Boobies)   Think Beijing's famous smog Is bad? Delhi's is worse   (firstpost.com) divider line 110
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11003 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jan 2014 at 1:00 AM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-29 02:32:19 AM
As much as I like to complain about the US, we're a f'ing utopia next to India. Of course Amercan capitalism has had a hand in making their country a shiat hole, but we're still better, suck it India.
 
2014-01-29 02:32:44 AM
In the 1960s the smog in Los Angeles was very bad. That smog looks worse. I blame the Yeti.
 
2014-01-29 02:39:19 AM

TinyFist: Ow! That was my feelings!: Foxxinnia: It'll be fine in the long-run. It'll toughen up the lungs.

Heh, I imagine Humans in 500 years with massive lungs and chest cavities. We evolve to have triple the lung capacity to help filter the air. Actually, that is farking sad. sigh.

Nah, I'll have my HEPA filter lung technology worked out in the next 3-5 years.

You'll even be able to take up smoking again worry free. I'm already at a 20% survival rate just 3 years in.

*patent pending


Live in Denver, I've been told the hippie smoke is an anti-cancer force field, so I'm good for at least 90 years on that alone. Does your filter work with a Silver Surfer? Cause I think I'd make 120 easy if it did.
 
2014-01-29 02:45:54 AM
Air so thick, you could cut rape it with a knife.
 
2014-01-29 03:07:03 AM
where does cairo rank
 
2014-01-29 03:08:33 AM

Bonanza Jellybean: where does cairo rank


Illinois or Egypt?  You might be surprised which is worse.
 
2014-01-29 03:29:38 AM
The fark is greenlighting New York Times? I get a login to my account page.. No articles.. farking pay walls.. Stop greenlight the New York Times
 
2014-01-29 03:46:09 AM

red5ish: In the 1960s the smog in Los Angeles was very bad. That smog looks worse. I blame the Yeti.


farm8.staticflickr.com
 
2014-01-29 04:09:41 AM
I was there in Nov. 2012 and the sun during the day looked like the moon.  Your lungs hurt if you did not wear a surgical mask.   At the time everyone was harvesting rice and burning rice stalks so I thought that made it worse.  Plus so much wood and cow poop burning.
 
2014-01-29 04:44:16 AM
It's the tea baggers and the deniers.   It's always the tea baggers and the deniers.
 
2014-01-29 04:51:43 AM

ImpendingCynic: I flew over Beijing a few years ago and couldn't believe how bad the smog was - I could barely make out any structures on the ground. I grew up in L.A. in the 70s and 80s, and it was never that bad.


I went to Beijing last month, Delhi a few months ago, and LA in 1978 and 1979 - yes it farking was
 
2014-01-29 05:00:56 AM
It doesn't matter how green we are here if the rest of the world is just bringing everything
 
2014-01-29 05:02:45 AM

Caluth: It doesn't matter how green we are here if the rest of the world is just bringing everything


errr yes.... it does
do unto others ...

or

Dont shiat on the floor if you do not like shiat on the floor
 
2014-01-29 05:02:51 AM
My experience with Dehli... Libertarian paradise. Walled gardens for the wealthy, and fark the poors. What was kinda cool was the stream of scrubbed and dressed kids who filed out every day out of absolute "washing one's self from wastewater" shantytowns to attend school. People really do try hard to make sure their kids aren't farked over as hard as they are.
 
2014-01-29 05:07:06 AM

maxheck: My experience with Dehli... Libertarian paradise. Walled gardens for the wealthy, and fark the poors. What was kinda cool was the stream of scrubbed and dressed kids who filed out every day out of absolute "washing one's self from wastewater" shantytowns to attend school. People really do try hard to make sure their kids aren't farked over as hard as they are.


Interesting since its a Fabian Socialist country.
 
2014-01-29 05:17:09 AM
As well as smog, they also don't mind coexisting with HUMAN TURDS lurking in every corner. Before the 2010 Commonwealth Games in Dehli, shocked international delegates were taken on a SH!AT INFESTED tour of the athletes' village.

The Indians, naturally, got all butt hurt over their guests' reaction. So they called a big press conference and played the racism card !!

British team officials threatened to pull out and spoke of a squalid, insanitary site.

"People have been defecating in all sorts of places," Craig Hunter, the English chef de mission, told The Times. Commonwealth Games Scotland said that the accommodation allocated to its athletes was "unsafe and unfit for human habitation".

Lalit Bhanot, general secretary of the Indian Organising Committee, tried to brush off the criticism. "Everyone has different standards about cleanliness. The Westerners have different standards. We have different standards," he told reporters.

In January, Mr Fennell [president of the Commonwealth Games Federation] called doubters "Western snobs", but has since been "driven nearly insane" by the lassitude of Indian officials, insiders say.



Still one of the funniest "playing of the racism card" news stories I've read.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/bridge-collapse-lack-of-readine ss -and-withdrawals-throw-games-into-crisis/story-fn66fst6-1225927667990
 
2014-01-29 05:20:34 AM

electricjebus: QU!RK1019:

Maybe, I dunno. My assumption would be that the percentage of viable, harmful airborne bacteria and viruses would account for only a minuscule percentage of all particulate matter captured in a sample from Beijing, Delhi, or a Salt Lake. The reason they don't want you breathing air full of 2.5 pm isn't because you have an increased risk of infection, but because even inanimate 2.5 pm damages the lungs, and chemicals that fine are easily ingested into the blood stream. But that's just a guess.

Viruses and bacteria play a part in a goddamn lot of human deaths.  I'm not advocating pollution, It's a bad thing, I just really wish that reporting on the subject would be more transparent and honest.  Smog causes enough problems on it's own, and there are scales to measure it, so I don't see why the article would use a scale that puts it in a category that includes unrelated viruses and bacteria, and then use that category to say why smog is a bad thing.

One of the greatest values of science is it's objectivity, when you sensationalize science in journalism you devalue it.


You didn't understood my post if you thought I was saying that bacteria and viruses don't pose a threat. So I'll try putting it another way. When they're studying the ill effects of smog on the human body, they're not even including or accounting for cases where someone became infected by an airborne bacteria or virus. They're studying cases of emphysema, copd, asthma, etc, and finding that it's the superfine 2.5 micron or less particles that are causing the most harm. This is where the data is coming from. Not that they're collecting a sample of air and concluding "oh there's bacteria in the air, so therefore all small particles are bad."
 
2014-01-29 05:28:34 AM

Ow! That was my feelings!: QU!RK1019: Ow! That was my feelings!: QU!RK1019: Cyrusv10: Bu....bu...bu...but...America is a terrible, oppressive polluter.  Someone should do something about American smog production!!

Come take in a nice fat breath of Wasatch Front smog, where just breathing is equivalent to smoking one cigarette a day, and tell me we shouldn't do something about pollution, asswipe.

So, what should we do about it? What's the solution?

Alternative energy and reduced consumption.

Riiiiiiight. Maybe you should just move your family out of a valley that naturally traps pollution, especially in the cold air of winter. We are generations away from carbon free energy, even without Asia crapping in our air.


How does the fact that the solution is years away invalidate that it is, in fact, the solution?
 
2014-01-29 05:34:01 AM
DoctorOfLove:

maxheck: My experience with Dehli... Libertarian paradise. Walled gardens for the wealthy, and fark the poors. What was kinda cool was the stream of scrubbed and dressed kids who filed out every day out of absolute "washing one's self from wastewater" shantytowns to attend school. People really do try hard to make sure their kids aren't farked over as hard as they are.

Interesting since its a Fabian Socialist country.


I don't know what Wikipedia entry you're summing up a country from.

Here... Let's take a look at Dehli :

i60.tinypic.com
 
2014-01-29 05:34:54 AM

QU!RK1019: electricjebus: QU!RK1019:

Maybe, I dunno. My assumption would be that the percentage of viable, harmful airborne bacteria and viruses would account for only a minuscule percentage of all particulate matter captured in a sample from Beijing, Delhi, or a Salt Lake. The reason they don't want you breathing air full of 2.5 pm isn't because you have an increased risk of infection, but because even inanimate 2.5 pm damages the lungs, and chemicals that fine are easily ingested into the blood stream. But that's just a guess.

Viruses and bacteria play a part in a goddamn lot of human deaths.  I'm not advocating pollution, It's a bad thing, I just really wish that reporting on the subject would be more transparent and honest.  Smog causes enough problems on it's own, and there are scales to measure it, so I don't see why the article would use a scale that puts it in a category that includes unrelated viruses and bacteria, and then use that category to say why smog is a bad thing.

One of the greatest values of science is it's objectivity, when you sensationalize science in journalism you devalue it.

You didn't understood my post if you thought I was saying that bacteria and viruses don't pose a threat. So I'll try putting it another way. When they're studying the ill effects of smog on the human body, they're not even including or accounting for cases where someone became infected by an airborne bacteria or virus. They're studying cases of emphysema, copd, asthma, etc, and finding that it's the superfine 2.5 micron or less particles that are causing the most harm. This is where the data is coming from. Not that they're collecting a sample of air and concluding "oh there's bacteria in the air, so therefore all small particles are bad."


I wish he'd do his own googling. I mean, these things are easily found.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particulates
A study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association indicates that PM2.5 leads to high plaque deposits in arteries, causing vascular inflammation and atherosclerosis - a hardening of the arteries that reduces elasticity, which can lead to heart attacks and other cardiovascular problems.[43] The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that "... fine particulate air pollution (PM(2.5)), causes about 3% of mortality from cardiopulmonary disease, about 5% of mortality from cancer of the trachea, bronchus, and lung, and about 1% of mortality from acute respiratory infections in children under 5 yr, worldwide." doi:10.1080/15287390590936166 PMID 16024504. Researchers suggest that even short-term exposure at elevated concentrations could significantly contribute to heart disease. A study in The Lancet concluded that traffic exhaust is the single most serious preventable cause of heart attack in the general public, the cause of 7.4% of all attacks.[44]
 
2014-01-29 06:21:45 AM
Gee, tough choice...the shiathole or the shiathole?
 
2014-01-29 06:43:31 AM
If it's like other places in the area the smog is from tuk tuks, motorbikes, and burning garbage and other stuff all the time. Spend a week there and you'll cough like a lifelong smoker.
 
2014-01-29 06:54:19 AM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Gee, tough choice...the shiathole or the shiathole?


You know what they say:

"A hole is a hole is a hole"
 
2014-01-29 06:58:30 AM
Most of China's smog stems from the simple fact that most vehicles dont have catalytic converters... but thats changing, as new laws were passed recently to phase in modern air standards on vehicles.

Dehli's problems are very different...
 
2014-01-29 07:21:46 AM
How did the website URL not get filterpwned?
 
2014-01-29 07:44:35 AM
I believe the appropriate word you are looking for is infamous, not famous...
 
2014-01-29 07:45:19 AM

Cyrusv10: America is a terrible, oppressive polluter. Someone should do something about American smog production!!


If we didn't have people smart enough to enact industry regulations, we'd look just like these cities.  LA was well on its way there before they regulated the fark out of it.
 
2014-01-29 08:06:24 AM
FTA:
The report says that, India's scores in this regard have declined by 100 percent in the last decade.

That would mean that they are at zero. The problem may have gotten 100% worse (doubled), but this is nonsensical writing. It says they're 155th in the world. They're ranked, so they must have a score.

Bad writing is bad.
 
2014-01-29 08:06:35 AM

maxheck: DoctorOfLove:

maxheck: My experience with Dehli... Libertarian paradise. Walled gardens for the wealthy, and fark the poors. What was kinda cool was the stream of scrubbed and dressed kids who filed out every day out of absolute "washing one's self from wastewater" shantytowns to attend school. People really do try hard to make sure their kids aren't farked over as hard as they are.

Interesting since its a Fabian Socialist country.

I don't know what Wikipedia entry you're summing up a country from.

Here... Let's take a look at Dehli :

[i60.tinypic.com image 850x637]


GIS for Dehli streets.

urbanhabitat.org
 
2014-01-29 08:21:32 AM
Why don't they just buy some carbon offsets? Problem solved.
 
2014-01-29 08:30:01 AM
Remember kids, every culture and political system is equally valid.
 
2014-01-29 08:30:13 AM
What a farking shiathole.
 
2014-01-29 08:37:25 AM

433: Well then why don't they close that one down and open up a new Delhi?


And where would they do that?
 
2014-01-29 08:42:20 AM

MayoSlather: As much as I like to complain about the US, we're a f'ing utopia next to India. Of course Amercan capitalism has had a hand in making their country a shiat hole, but we're still better, suck it India.



It's Indian capitalism.
American out-sourcing wasn't imposed on them. It was actively sought by the Indian business community and government.
 
2014-01-29 08:45:58 AM

ex0du5: Anyone who has been to both could tell you that.  Delhi's air is foul.  There is still the tradition common throughout India of burning their trash on the sides of the roads each night, the tuk tuks leave a black soot everywhere, the cow dung everywhere dries out in the dry season and gets kicked up, and the whole north of India suffers from severe hyperindustrialisation, even far from the cities.  Delhi, being so concentrated, is the worst of what is generally a bad set of circumstances throughout the north (and to a lesser extent down south).  Anyone who spends some time there will be blowing black boogers at some point.

Beijing is bad, but it's just smog.  They have ozone problems and some smoke from their own factories, but you don't smell it.

Both countries are going through what the US did in the 1800's, with mostly unregulated factory growth to fuel their desperate economies, but China's centralized economy at least controls the distribution and spreads the pain around.  I am not the type that argues for centralized economic planning, but it is clear that when the choice is between these two extremes, the anything goes only concentrates the toxins, causes mass migrations, and is generally an unstable situation for health.


When was the last time you were in Delhi?  They are actually making tons of progress.  Gasoline putt putts (tuk tuks?) have been banned from the city for a decade, all public transportation is now run on natural gas.  The last time I visited it was actually way cleaner than in previous years.  They are trying, and, I believe succeeding.

Now it used to be terrible, I agree.  My FIL died of lung cancer fairly young without the benefit of smoking, but I think Delhi is way ahead of China in recognizing and trying to fix the problem.
 
2014-01-29 08:52:32 AM

MemeSlave: Remember kids, every culture and political system is equally valid.


i18.photobucket.com
You hit like a girl.
 
2014-01-29 08:55:06 AM
 
2014-01-29 08:56:47 AM

Cyrusv10: Bu....bu...bu...but...America is a terrible, oppressive polluter.  Someone should do something about American smog production!!


Does your family ever complain about all the straw men you bring home?
 
2014-01-29 08:57:53 AM

maxheck: My experience with Dehli... Libertarian paradise. Walled gardens for the wealthy, and fark the poors. What was kinda cool was the stream of scrubbed and dressed kids who filed out every day out of absolute "washing one's self from wastewater" shantytowns to attend school. People really do try hard to make sure their kids aren't farked over as hard as they are.


The poor women cut grass with a hand sickle.   Trash everywhere, prices are not fixed and a car horn is how people navigate in traffic.  They have weaponized hawkers and beggars.  Major focus on owning gold. Every Libertarian needs to go there and see how it feels when your ideology turns out to be cruel and fuels corruption.
 
2014-01-29 09:03:51 AM
But Indian women are pretty hot, so there is that
 
2014-01-29 09:14:26 AM

QU!RK1019: Salt Lake City topped out just over 200 the other day.  Not as bad as Beijing or Delhi, but approaching that.  My daughter hasn't been allowed outside at recess for over a week now.


I read a story about that just the other day. Not that I needed to--every time I get down there in the winter, the inversion is just terrible. The worst I've ever seen in the mountains, although I suppose there's worse places. But SLC has a good setup--those huge mountains right behind the city like that, on the east side.

My town is pretty bad too, but nothing like the Salt Lake area. A lot of wood-burning stoves here. And I live above it, haha. I look down on it every time I go into town.
 
2014-01-29 09:38:59 AM

MayoSlather: As much as I like to complain about the US, we're a f'ing utopia next to India. Of course Amercan capitalism has had a hand in making their country a shiat hole, but we're still better, suck it India.


The Caste System still permeates in the India psyche. You really can't have a free, democratic society while that remains. They created their own problems, just like every other country.
 
2014-01-29 09:46:51 AM
It always kills me when someone shows pictures of some third world socialist shiathole and follows with "there's your freedom and capitalism!"
 
2014-01-29 09:54:42 AM
I'm not sure about the numbers, but I've made five trips to Deli over the last decade, and i'd say it's competitive with anywhere.
 
2014-01-29 10:02:22 AM

electricjebus: Well, the other thing is that when the US industrialized our population wasn't in excess of a billion...


They also didn't have the advantages of 180 years of subsequent modernization and materials advancement. There's no reason to be experiencing the same growing pains in 2010 as a nation that industrialized in 1830.
 
2014-01-29 10:06:38 AM
If you love smog, you should try Salt Lake City sometime.  It's either Delhi, Beijing or SLC at any given moment during the winter for worst air in the world.
 
2014-01-29 10:15:02 AM

Nemo's Brother: MayoSlather: As much as I like to complain about the US, we're a f'ing utopia next to India. Of course Amercan capitalism has had a hand in making their country a shiat hole, but we're still better, suck it India.

The Caste System still permeates in the India psyche. You really can't have a free, democratic society while that remains. They created their own problems, just like every other country.


India since independence has had affirmative action for members of castes considered "untouchable" in the past.  And recently that government has also adopted affirmative action (up to 50% reservation of seats in universities and government jobs) for other "backward" or underprivileged non-untouchable castes.So now the members of those benefiting castes wish to keep their castes listed as underprivileged for as long as possible and hence try to maintain the caster-list system. This means that their caste system likely will be sustained and not wither away for decades/centuries.
 
2014-01-29 10:26:42 AM

Archae hippy: ex0du5: Anyone who has been to both could tell you that.  Delhi's air is foul.  There is still the tradition common throughout India of burning their trash on the sides of the roads each night, the tuk tuks leave a black soot everywhere, the cow dung everywhere dries out in the dry season and gets kicked up, and the whole north of India suffers from severe hyperindustrialisation, even far from the cities.  Delhi, being so concentrated, is the worst of what is generally a bad set of circumstances throughout the north (and to a lesser extent down south).  Anyone who spends some time there will be blowing black boogers at some point.

Beijing is bad, but it's just smog.  They have ozone problems and some smoke from their own factories, but you don't smell it.

Both countries are going through what the US did in the 1800's, with mostly unregulated factory growth to fuel their desperate economies, but China's centralized economy at least controls the distribution and spreads the pain around.  I am not the type that argues for centralized economic planning, but it is clear that when the choice is between these two extremes, the anything goes only concentrates the toxins, causes mass migrations, and is generally an unstable situation for health.

When was the last time you were in Delhi?  They are actually making tons of progress.  Gasoline putt putts (tuk tuks?) have been banned from the city for a decade, all public transportation is now run on natural gas.  The last time I visited it was actually way cleaner than in previous years.  They are trying, and, I believe succeeding.

Now it used to be terrible, I agree.  My FIL died of lung cancer fairly young without the benefit of smoking, but I think Delhi is way ahead of China in recognizing and trying to fix the problem.


I was there in 2008 and they were clearly gasoline / petroleum. A quick internet search for tuk tuk Delhi petrol finds articles claiming it was initially tried to be a ban, but that courts turned it to a cap (55,000) and there is a lot of corruption and fake licensing. The tuk tuks are certainly not as prevalent as in Varanasi or Agra, but coming to Delhi from Bengaluru was a huge shock in air quality drop, Delhi was definitely the worst for many obvious reasons, and it only really cleared up any once we got out east around Bodh Gaya.

I only stopped by Beijing and Guangzhou briefly (a night each) on my way to Lhasa (Tibet) in 2010. The smog/haze did at times seem as thick as Delhi, but as the article alludes, the particulates were totally different. It is hard to describe just how thick and sooty the air is in Delhi.
 
2014-01-29 11:10:16 AM

ex0du5: I was there in 2008 and they were clearly gasoline / petroleum. A quick internet search for tuk tuk Delhi petrol finds articles claiming it was initially tried to be a ban, but that courts turned it to a cap (55,000) and there is a lot of corruption and fake licensing. The tuk tuks are certainly not as prevalent as in Varanasi or Agra, but coming to Delhi from Bengaluru was a huge shock in air quality drop, Delhi was definitely the worst for many obvious reasons, and it only really cleared up any once we got out east around Bodh Gaya.


If I had time and means, I'd love to run a charity operation that would a) replace tuck tucks with electric tuck tucks, which makes all the sense in the world since the cabbies are cruising a short area and I assure you that nobody is going fast or b) pull basic maintenance on tuck tucks, as I'm pretty sure that changing wheel bearings and replacing exhaust systems would a LONG way pollution wise.
 
2014-01-29 11:44:15 AM
The good news is that Pittsburgh's pollution problem is solved.
 
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