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(The Atlantic)   "Processed food is slowly poisoning everyone," claims heart doctor with sinister agenda   (theatlantic.com) divider line 117
    More: Unlikely, raw foods, processed food, political agenda, Cardiologist, omega-3 fatty acids  
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6238 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jan 2014 at 2:22 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-29 07:12:26 AM  

log_jammin: mr0x: The average wage of a farmer is $24,000 and  there are about half a million farmers in the US. That is about 1%-2% of the population.

I think you read your chart wrong

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes119013.htm

"Farmers, Ranchers, and Other Agricultural Managers" showed a mean annual income of $73,000.

I grew up, and live in, rural Kansas, and I've never met a poor farmer.


Nice try. That category of "Farmers, Ranchers, and Other Agricultural Managers" has about 4,000 people in it.

The category with half a million farmers is this one below.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes450000.htm
 
2014-01-29 07:14:01 AM  

maram500: Maths is hard, huh?

The US population is roughly 320 million. Half a million people would be about one-sixth of one per cent. If you're going to pontificate, please at least get the basic maths straight.


Yeah, you're right. My math was bad there. 1/6% it is.
 
2014-01-29 07:14:32 AM  

log_jammin: bunner: So, anecdotes are like "feels likes"?

I guess you missed the link showing the mean income as 73K a year.

here. let me post it again so you can ignore it again.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes119013.htm

also you seem unaware of crop insurance, and government guaranteed agriculture loans.

I'm gonna save everybody some trouble.  The nanosecond you get all "Nuh uh, no, see it's like this, like this, stupid, because it is and I know because..." and start peacocking for your invisible fan base in the peanut gallery, you  have blown it.  Sh*t the bedding, screwed the schnauzer.  Finis.  Über mit.  Because it becomes very obvious that it's the reason you use this website.  Which means you have no views, per se, you're just here to tell everybody how clueless they are compared to you.  And then you get a "hit" and you bite down on that like a dog on a rag.  And there you are, calling people stupid and uninformed from the bus stop you got off at in '02 that says "AOL".  Cause that's how clapped out trolling, waxing superior and generally trying to piss from a great height on a web forum is.  It's that last decade.  And it makes the people who endlessly flog it the pile of dog crap you have to walk around in the park.  Ha ha.
 
2014-01-29 07:14:58 AM  

electricjebus: log_jammin: "We physicians with all our experience and authority" he writes, "often acquire a rather large selfishness that tends to make it hard to accept we are wrong. So, here it is. I openly admit to being mistaken. As a heart surgeon with 25 years experience, having done more than 5,000 open-heart surgeries, today is my day to right the wrong with medical and scientific proof."

Between 2000 and 2008, Lundell was subjected to five regulatory actions by the Arizona Medical Board:

In 2000, the board concluded that his postoperative management of a patient who had died following carotid artery surgery was substandard and insufficiently documented. He was censured for unprofessional conduct, assessed a $2,500 civil penalty, and placed on probation during which he was required to take continuing medical education courses in carotid artery surgery and medical recordkeeping. He was also required to submit to monitoring of his patient records [4].

In 2003, the board noted that 13 out of 20 charts reviewed by the consultant were deficient because they did not include adequate initial evaluations of the patients. Lundell was censured again and was placed on probation that included quarterly chart reviews [5].

In 2004, the board found fault with his management of two patients and concluded that his records for these patients were inadequate. He was reprimanded and ordered to serve two more years of probation, during which he was required to undergo an extensive evaluation of his fitness to continue practicing medicine [6].

In 2006, the board sent him an advisory letter for failure to maintain adequate records and for a technical surgical error [7].

In 2008, the board reviewed Lundell's management of several more patients and revoked his medical license. The board's order mentioned that the board was investigating his care of seven patients because the Banner Desert Medical Hospital had suspended Lundell's surgical privileges [7].

Financial and Legal Trouble

Lundell also ran i ...

Well... that settles that.


It does. You can't believe ANYTHING the guys says.

BTW, the guy also believes that man-made climate change is going to ruin the planet.
 
2014-01-29 07:17:31 AM  

mr0x: Nice try. That category of "Farmers, Ranchers, and Other Agricultural Managers" has about 4,000 people in it.


and?

you said "farmers", not "farm workers".

farm workers aren't paid shiat. it's why many of them are migrant workers. Farmers, are a completely different thing. they own hundreds or thousands of acres of land, get dirt cheap govenrment loans, and own tractors that can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.
 
2014-01-29 07:20:11 AM  

bunner: I'm gonna save everybody some trouble.  The nanosecond you get all "Nuh uh, no, see it's like this, like this, stupid, because it is and I know because..." and start peacocking for your invisible fan base in the peanut gallery, you  have blown it.  Sh*t the bedding, screwed the schnauzer.  Finis.  Über mit.  Because it becomes very obvious that it's the reason you use this website.  Which means you have no views, per se, you're just here to tell everybody how clueless they are compared to you.  And then you get a "hit" and you bite down on that like a dog on a rag.  And there you are, calling people stupid and uninformed from the bus stop you got off at in '02 that says "AOL".  Cause that's how clapped out trolling, waxing superior and generally trying to piss from a great height on a web forum is.  It's that last decade.  And it makes the people who endlessly flog it the pile of dog crap you have to walk around in the park.  Ha ha.


do you need an ointment?
 
2014-01-29 07:21:10 AM  

log_jammin: do you need an ointment?


Precisely.  Good example.   :  )

*toggles "show posts from ignored users" button*
 
2014-01-29 07:22:00 AM  

DrPainMD: It does. You can't believe ANYTHING the guys says.


why can't you believe anything Dr.  Stephen Barrett says?
 
2014-01-29 07:22:35 AM  

bunner: log_jammin: do you need an ointment?

Precisely.  Good example.   :  )

*toggles "show posts from ignored users" button*


the echo chamber says hi.
 
2014-01-29 07:24:00 AM  

Ruiizu: Massive increase in pesticide use and alteration to the basic genetic makeup of certain foods is something you may want to mention in a post that large. The reason a conventional head of lettuce is less preferable to an organic one is because of the poisonous chemical spray on the conventional lettuce---it seeps it and we end up eating it, even if that head of lettuce is washed. Because of the dangerous mixtures of poison allowed to be used today in order to keep bugs off the food, toxicity levels are gradually increasing.


Ooh, more pesticides and tampering with not just genetics, but basic genetics! Sounds scary!

Plants produce their own toxins if they aren't sprayed. You end up consuming quite a lot more because they can't be washed off. "Organic" allows for pesticides also, and not cuddly ones. They will kill you dead in sufficient quantity. Sufficient quantity being the key idea. You can ingest quite a lot more toxins without harm than what will kill off bugs.

You really ought to stop relying on Natural News and that ilk and instead read up on actual organic standards. A Google search on organic pesticides is also a good start.
 
2014-01-29 07:33:32 AM  
MMMM bacon.
 
2014-01-29 07:34:42 AM  

meat0918: Sinister?

Hawking your goods and services in exchange for something, in this case oodles and oodles of money, is as old a phenomenon as man himself, probably older.


He's sinister because he's hawking a book he wrote. God did that and look at all the trouble it caused.
 
2014-01-29 07:36:00 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Deepak Chopra


Whenever I hear his name, I think of people who say "D-bag" instead of douchebag, and then think a "D-pack" must be an entire package full of D-bags...
 
2014-01-29 07:37:44 AM  

log_jammin: Lenny_da_Hog: Now people think doctors are there to do what you tell them, instead of being highly educated and trained people who take care of problems the vast majority of people can't begin to understand.

Americans tend to believe that their opinion is just as valuable as the opinion of an expert in their field.

It's why we have anti vaccers and a global warming "debate". I even recall a guy on here who said that any scientific theory he read about that didn't make sense to him couldn't be true, since he's a really smart guy and all. therefore if he didn't understand it, it was a lie to deceive the public.


I think the idea of taking a pill to solve your medical problem is very attractive to everyone.  Instead of spending a half hour / meal preparing something healthy and delicious, it is easier to nuke some Mac & Cheese.  It is much easier to sit on your ass and play video games and masturbate to Duck Dynasty than it is to get outside and walk for 3/4 of an hour everyday.

The pill marketers shpeal works not because they're effectively selling the product.  It works because they're telling people what they want to hear.
 
2014-01-29 07:43:57 AM  

Muta: I think the idea of taking a pill to solve your medical problem is very attractive to everyone.  Instead of spending a half hour / meal preparing something healthy and delicious, it is easier to nuke some Mac & Cheese.  It is much easier to sit on your ass and play video games and masturbate to Duck Dynasty than it is to get outside and walk for 3/4 of an hour everyday.

The pill marketers shpeal works not because they're effectively selling the product.  It works because they're telling people what they want to hear.


yup.

my wife lost a bunch of weight a few years ago, and everyone kept asking her how she did it. the look of disappointment she got when she'd say "I started exercising and eating better" was kinda amusing.
 
2014-01-29 07:44:41 AM  
All this talk about his criminal history is just an ad hominem attack, and has nothing to do with the diet he recommends. Very low.
 
2014-01-29 07:55:15 AM  
But my grandmother is the one who introduced me to Miracle Whip, diet soda, candies and desserts with artificial sweeteners, and McDonald's.  So, if I'm following this guy's advice correctly, those things are all perfectly safe to eat, but bok choi, cherimoya, and chutney would be off limits.
 
2014-01-29 07:56:50 AM  
Just because a surgeon is good at cutting people open doesn't mean they're good at providing advice about diet or exercise. Look at Dr Oz as a prime example of a competent surgeon who promotes the most ridiculous woo on his show. In fact there are plenty of doctors who've turned away from evidence based medicine for quackery and woo, usually related to some book or website they happen to have a financial interest in.

I think I would be more persuaded by a website (of which there are many) which promotes healthy eating, prepared by and reviewed by dieticians and other medical practioners than I would someone who promotes simplistic and potentially dangerous advice and makes arguments from authority to promote his own book .
 
2014-01-29 07:58:41 AM  

jcmjx: All this talk about his criminal history is just an ad hominem attack, and has nothing to do with the diet he recommends. Very low.


An ad hominem argument is an appropriate response, as the doctor is not a nutritionist, yet positioning himself as an authority upon nutrition. This is called the argument from authority fallacy, a sibling of the ad hominem fallacy.

If you take nutrition advice from a surgical specialist, one only expects you hire a nutritionist to perform your next surgery, a plumber to fix your car, or an electrical engineer to broker your stocks.

That aside, there's nothing really inherently wrong about his advice until he starts recommending nutrition as a cure. Cutting out processed foods is not a new idea, nor a particularly harmful one.
 
2014-01-29 07:59:00 AM  
Anyone have that Onion article: "World Death rate holds steady at 100%"?
 
2014-01-29 08:00:58 AM  
Is the Obvious tag too obese to leave the house?
 
2014-01-29 08:03:45 AM  

Ruiizu: A lot of that other stuff about processed food is true, though: much of it is an effort to keep profits high and still keep bellies full (well intended, perhaps, misguided at least, predatory at worst). Still, "living a fast lifestyle" is a choice. I find time every single night to cook a meal "just like grandma" and still have plenty of time to screw around.


Very very true.  Of the 21 meals we eat a week, probably only one or two are processed.  Everything else is cooked just like grandma.  The time is available people just need to make the effort.  Crock-pots can be your friend.

How hard is it to make real oatmeal?  You start the water boiling and add the oats.  Put a lid on it and let it steep while you take your shower.  When you're done in the shower, the oatmeal is ready.  You get a breakfast 'just like grandma made' and its preparation took about the same amount of time out of your day as toasting an Eggo waffle.
 
2014-01-29 08:14:53 AM  

wildcardjack: I think he'd appreciate my "if in doubt eat a head of romaine" approach. If I find myself thinking about fast food I eat a headbof romaine, with maybe some Baco's and balsamic vinegar.


Enjoy your e. coli, dumbass.
 
2014-01-29 08:16:53 AM  
As opposed to unprocessed (unpreserved) food which had been quickly poisoning everyone for millenia.
 
2014-01-29 08:18:26 AM  

starsrift: An ad hominem argument is an appropriate response, as the doctor is not a nutritionist, yet positioning himself as an authority upon nutrition.


Nutritionists aren't qualified to talk about nutrition either. A dietician is and has the medical training, professional status and accreditation to back it up.

A nutritionist is anybody who wants to declare themselves an expert on nutrition whether they are or not. Many of them are naturally complete flakes. e.g. "Doctor" Gillian McKeith who bought her title and qualifications from a diploma mill.
 
2014-01-29 08:18:56 AM  
Sinister?
It's not like his ideas are out of left field
 
2014-01-29 08:22:42 AM  

drxym: starsrift: An ad hominem argument is an appropriate response, as the doctor is not a nutritionist, yet positioning himself as an authority upon nutrition.

Nutritionists aren't qualified to talk about nutrition either. A dietician is and has the medical training, professional status and accreditation to back it up.


Well, there's a bit of fine line I wasn't aware of. I bet a dietician gets really offended when they're referred to as a nutritionist, too.
 
2014-01-29 08:27:08 AM  
This is all nutrition 101 stuff.
 
2014-01-29 08:28:54 AM  
You have 2 options:
1) eat healthy, and die alone of old age, wheelchair bound due to a broken hip at 95, having your butt wiped by brown people who talk about you in their own language and steal your pills
2) go out in a bacon-fueled blaze of heart attack glory at 60 while nailing your 20-something mistress
 
2014-01-29 08:35:51 AM  

robohobo: Being alive is slowly poisoning everyone

- TO DEATH!!

(had to add a little dramatic redundancy)
 
2014-01-29 08:39:57 AM  

starsrift: Well, there's a bit of fine line I wasn't aware of. I bet a dietician gets really offended when they're referred to as a nutritionist, too.


I think it goes that dieticians are always nutritionists but the reverse does not hold. To be fair, there are reputable nutritionist courses and responsible nutritionists, but the problem is the term is not protected and is therefore frequently co-opted to promote quackery and woo.

I think it would be very important to study their qualifications and their promotional material extremely carefully
 
2014-01-29 08:40:08 AM  
I only drink fresh squeezed free range organic raw goat's milk, so I'm getting a kick of of this thread.
 
2014-01-29 08:40:42 AM  

Fafai: Boloxor the Insipid: Solutare: Wow, I can't believe assholes are defending this asshole.

Oh... wait. I guess I'm not surprised at all, actually.

Why is he ans 'asshole' Solutare?  He saved 5000 lives doing heart surgeries in his career.  How many lives have you saved Solutare?   Then, he wrote a book that says you should eat healthy food.
Here you are,Solutare, calling a total stranger an asshole on the basis of some crap you read on the internet.

Who's the asshole, Soutare?

Yeah, Solutare.

/ Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutar e Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare   Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare   Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare   Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare  Solutare


static4.wikia.nocookie.net

Sollltare
 
2014-01-29 08:42:38 AM  

MemeSlave: You have 2 options:
1) eat healthy, and die alone of old age, wheelchair bound due to a broken hip at 95, having your butt wiped by brown people who talk about you in their own language and steal your pills
2) go out in a bacon-fueled blaze of heart attack glory at 60 while nailing your 20-something mistress


While wheel chair bound at 95, I am planning on threatening brown people with deportation unless they give me a BJ.
 
2014-01-29 08:45:31 AM  
Eating whole foods, healthy fats, grass-fed meat and poultry play a critical role for solid brain health.

Read more:  http://www.wtae.com/news/health/researchers-reveal-weapon-against-alz h eimers-disease/-/9680940/24163080/-/cb8dsmz/-/index.html#ixzz2rnLcqIPd
 
2014-01-29 08:46:26 AM  
Meanwhile in reality, life expectancy continues to rise, disease continues its decline.
 
2014-01-29 08:50:19 AM  

Russ1642: Meanwhile in reality, life expectancy continues to rise, disease continues its decline.


I know right, why bother to try and improve something that happens automatically?
 
2014-01-29 08:51:25 AM  
My daughter is a big proponent of this kind of nutrition. And it works for her wonderfully. She's in her mid-30s and looks 10 years less.

But  the advice "don't eat anything your grandmother wouldn't recognize as food" would be poison for her. Mom's diet consisted of some frozen food, deli ham, bourbon, and a pack a day of cigarettes.
 
2014-01-29 08:53:35 AM  
Processed food? Hah!
Try possessed food.
 
2014-01-29 08:55:45 AM  

GhostFish: Has there ever been a health related issue taken up by the Facebook gossip crowd that wasn't in the end at least 50% bullshiat?

Health advice from Facebook is literally folk medicine. You're likely to get the same results by burying half a potato under a full moon while wearing a bra on your head.


You can get some amazing results doing that.

i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-29 08:59:18 AM  

log_jammin: "We physicians with all our experience and authority" he writes, "often acquire a rather large selfishness that tends to make it hard to accept we are wrong. So, here it is. I openly admit to being mistaken. As a heart surgeon with 25 years experience, having done more than 5,000 open-heart surgeries, today is my day to right the wrong with medical and scientific proof."

Between 2000 and 2008, Lundell was subjected to five regulatory actions by the Arizona Medical Board:

In 2000, the board concluded that his postoperative management of a patient who had died following carotid artery surgery was substandard and insufficiently documented. He was censured for unprofessional conduct, assessed a $2,500 civil penalty, and placed on probation during which he was required to take continuing medical education courses in carotid artery surgery and medical recordkeeping. He was also required to submit to monitoring of his patient records [4].

In 2003, the board noted that 13 out of 20 charts reviewed by the consultant were deficient because they did not include adequate initial evaluations of the patients. Lundell was censured again and was placed on probation that included quarterly chart reviews [5].

In 2004, the board found fault with his management of two patients and concluded that his records for these patients were inadequate. He was reprimanded and ordered to serve two more years of probation, during which he was required to undergo an extensive evaluation of his fitness to continue practicing medicine [6].

In 2006, the board sent him an advisory letter for failure to maintain adequate records and for a technical surgical error [7].

In 2008, the board reviewed Lundell's management of several more patients and revoked his medical license. The board's order mentioned that the board was investigating his care of seven patients because the Banner Desert Medical Hospital had suspended Lundell's surgical privileges [7].


Financial and Legal Trouble

Lundell also ran i ...


Good ol' Quackwatch, calling snake oil salesmen out on their bullshiat.

Oh and not that you need any further convincing that this guy is a loon, but he's unsurprisingly also a member of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, a far-right lobbyist group disguised under an innocuous name that promotes anti-vaccination, HIV denialism, links between abortion and cancer, and various other crackpot theories. And RON PAUL and RAND PAUL are both members too.
 
2014-01-29 09:20:03 AM  
In California you would be amazed what it takes to get an irritated letter from the medical board. A ludicrous misdiagnosis or negligent treatment protocol resulting in death usually lands a doctor on probation (if the entire affair is well documented). The vast majority of negligent deaths go unreported.
Any person who is repeatedly under fire from the medical board is most assuredly NOT somebody to be trusted, professionally or otherwise.
 
2014-01-29 09:35:15 AM  

1. Put snakes on plane: Ruiizu: Massive increase in pesticide use and alteration to the basic genetic makeup of certain foods is something you may want to mention in a post that large. The reason a conventional head of lettuce is less preferable to an organic one is because of the poisonous chemical spray on the conventional lettuce---it seeps it and we end up eating it, even if that head of lettuce is washed. Because of the dangerous mixtures of poison allowed to be used today in order to keep bugs off the food, toxicity levels are gradually increasing.

Ooh, more pesticides and tampering with not just genetics, but basic genetics! Sounds scary!

Plants produce their own toxins if they aren't sprayed. You end up consuming quite a lot more because they can't be washed off. "Organic" allows for pesticides also, and not cuddly ones. They will kill you dead in sufficient quantity. Sufficient quantity being the key idea. You can ingest quite a lot more toxins without harm than what will kill off bugs.

You really ought to stop relying on Natural News and that ilk and instead read up on actual organic standards. A Google search on organic pesticides is also a good start.


I understand what you're saying---the green portion of potatoes is an easily visible form of natural pesticide that can kill you. Organic standards aren't 100% perfect either---but I don't eat just anything labeled organic. A lot of our organic food is grown at the local farm cooperative, where you can walk right out and see how they're growing things.

My point is not natural news fear mongering; it is instead that a ton of the so called "healthy" "whole" foods we're told to eat are often not so great due to how they've been treated. And it is FACT that the amount of pesticides being used on foods has increased DRAMATICALLY in the past few decades. Considering the danger of chemical build up in our bodies and the soil, I view this as a very bad trend.

Incidentally, my reference to genetically altered foods is more to express my disappointments in that area. Not only have they failed to deliver on promises (less pesticide use for higher yield) but they've also led to some highly corrupt (in my opinion) business and regulatory practices. I just don't believe in patenting food. Its wrong, to me, and dangerous.

/natural news isn't the only source of information
//countries don't ban our food for 100% economic/political reasons
 
2014-01-29 09:44:53 AM  
He's right about food, but the real problem us much more basic: too many calories and not enough exercise. Your heart is designed to function optimally when trained to periodic vigorous exercise.
 
2014-01-29 09:58:19 AM  

mr0x: log_jammin: mr0x: The average wage of a farmer is $24,000 and  there are about half a million farmers in the US. That is about 1%-2% of the population.

I think you read your chart wrong

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes119013.htm

"Farmers, Ranchers, and Other Agricultural Managers" showed a mean annual income of $73,000.

I grew up, and live in, rural Kansas, and I've never met a poor farmer.

Nice try. That category of "Farmers, Ranchers, and Other Agricultural Managers" has about 4,000 people in it.

The category with half a million farmers is this one below.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes450000.htm


I think log_jammin got it right.

I don't see any farmers in your link:
Support Activities for Crop Production*  (240,370)
Logging  (29,130)
Miscellaneous Nondurable Goods Merchant Wholesalers  (19,140)
Support Activities for Animal Production (15,010)
Lawn and Garden Equipment and Supplies Stores (13,550)

*These aren't farmers. These are "Agricultural workers" (233,160). They're the ones making $9/hour.

Agricultural workers maintain the quality of farms, crops, and livestock by operating machinery and doing physical labor under the supervision of farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers.
 
2014-01-29 10:01:19 AM  

starsrift: jcmjx: All this talk about his criminal history is just an ad hominem attack, and has nothing to do with the diet he recommends. Very low.

An ad hominem argument is an appropriate response, as the doctor is not a nutritionist, yet positioning himself as an authority upon nutrition. This is called the argument from authority fallacy, a sibling of the ad hominem fallacy.


I was talking about drudging up his criminal history, not his credentials. Still, it benefits no one to dismiss a claim based on the mouth it comes out of.
 
2014-01-29 10:16:31 AM  

neversubmit: Russ1642: Meanwhile in reality, life expectancy continues to rise, disease continues its decline.

I know right, why bother to try and improve something that happens automatically?



I think you missed his point. If his thesis is that processed food is unhealthy (or even 'poison'), then he needs to explain the fact that there's a positive correlation between increased consumption of processed food and increased lifespan. Yes, there are confounders, but when you see large amounts of evidence in the opposite direction of your thesis, you need to address it.

I would also like to see a stronger argument than:

There is but one answer to quieting inflammation," Lundell writes, "and that is returning to foods closer to their natural state."

/Side rant, as someone who's done a little looking into inflammation, here's a problems with some of the current research on the subject:

CRP, a measure of inflammation, is not routinely measured in the US, where most of these studies have taken place. It's usually measured only when the doctor thinks something is wrong. Inflammation is a common result of a number of things going wrong (cancer, diabetes, infection, etc.). Because of this, it is very easy to draw a cross-sectional correlation between poor health and inflammation; get a few patients in poor health and a few healthy patients, measure their CRP, and blam, p<0.05 and publication.

The only way to convincingly show that inflammation leads to health problems would be to perform a large-scale study that routinely measured CRP (or some other measure of inflammation) and showing that elevated inflammation levels happen before the other indicators of patient health  happen (e.g. lowering of GFR indicating kidney disease, or rise of HbA1c indicating diabetes). Maybe this has been done, but I've seen too many studies where the measurement is effectively cross-sectional (I'm looking at you, non-lagged time-dependent survival analyses!).

//A cross-sectional analysis of Miami would show that people there tend to be born Cuban and die Jewish.
 
2014-01-29 10:30:59 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Rules to live by:

326. If they are selling something related to the advice they are giving, you can ignore them.


/This message brought to you by the letter A, the numbers 3, 2, and 6, and common sense.


We statisticians routinely charge for our advice. Ignore statisticians' advice on your study design at your peril.

/Wasn't involved in that one, but feel sorry for whoever tried to save a few bucks on the sample size only to wind up wasting several hundred million to get a p value of 0.11 . . .
 
2014-01-29 10:33:02 AM  

draypresct: neversubmit: Russ1642: Meanwhile in reality, life expectancy continues to rise, disease continues its decline.

I know right, why bother to try and improve something that happens automatically?


I think you missed his point. If his thesis is that processed food is unhealthy (or even 'poison'), then he needs to explain the fact that there's a positive correlation between increased consumption of processed food and increased lifespan. Yes, there are confounders, but when you see large amounts of evidence in the opposite direction of your thesis, you need to address it.

I would also like to see a stronger argument than:

There is but one answer to quieting inflammation," Lundell writes, "and that is returning to foods closer to their natural state."

/Side rant, as someone who's done a little looking into inflammation, here's a problems with some of the current research on the subject:

CRP, a measure of inflammation, is not routinely measured in the US, where most of these studies have taken place. It's usually measured only when the doctor thinks something is wrong. Inflammation is a common result of a number of things going wrong (cancer, diabetes, infection, etc.). Because of this, it is very easy to draw a cross-sectional correlation between poor health and inflammation; get a few patients in poor health and a few healthy patients, measure their CRP, and blam, p<0.05 and publication.

The only way to convincingly show that inflammation leads to health problems would be to perform a large-scale study that routinely measured CRP (or some other measure of inflammation) and showing that elevated inflammation levels happen before the other indicators of patient health  happen (e.g. lowering of GFR indicating kidney disease, or rise of HbA1c indicating diabetes). Maybe this has been done, but I've seen too many studies where the measurement is effectively cross-sectional (I'm looking at you, non-lagged time-dependent survival analyses!).

//A cross-sectional analy ...


Wow! That was very informative, thank you. <-(no sarcasm) I was just being snarky with Russ1642.
 
2014-01-29 10:42:29 AM  

neversubmit: Wow! That was very informative, thank you. <-(no sarcasm) I was just being snarky with Russ1642.


No problem. Thanks for clarifying.

/I tend to get pedantic on these topics.
 
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