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(Chicago Trib)   2013: Illinois lawmakers pass law eviscerating constitutionally protected pensions for state workers and pensions. 2014: Unions get ready to bend Illinois lawmakers over   (chicagotribune.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Illinois, pass laws, Illinois lawmakers, Municipal Employees, Sangamon County, pensions, unions, workers  
•       •       •

3708 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Jan 2014 at 3:12 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-01-28 03:26:30 PM  
4 votes:

under a mountain: So I guess the Union just expects the State to create the money out of thin air?


I think they expect them to abide by the law and honor their agreements.

Oh wait they'll just raise taxes.

Indeed, stuff costs money. It's crazy.
2014-01-28 03:24:49 PM  
3 votes:
Ohs noes, employees wanting to get what they're contractually guaranteed!
2014-01-28 04:43:47 PM  
2 votes:

R.A.Danny: Dr Dreidel: GoldSpider: rcantley: Ohs noes, employees wanting to get what they're contractually guaranteed!

Contracts that make guarantees based on assumptions about future economic conditions should be considered legally unenforceable.

You'd probably have to specify that a bit.

A contract that says "I'll pay you $100 now and $200 when the work is done" assumes the "future economic condition" that I'll have $200 when the work is complete, and would therefore be unenforceable.

So we don't have to pay our credit card bills?


This "all debt is illegal and unenforceable" scenario is a good one. I like it.
2014-01-28 04:27:11 PM  
2 votes:

MFAWG: shouldn't the state have been putting money aside for these pensions?


Why fund them?
Everyone is going to make huge returns each year.
Our forecasts show 8%+ growth annually.
Letting that money just sit there is just wasteful.
Let's put it to good use by building stadiums and high end apartments.
We will just put a little bit less towards them each year.

//Yeah that is pretty much how it went
2014-01-28 04:14:55 PM  
2 votes:

under a mountain: So I guess the Union just expects the State to create the money out of thin air?

Oh wait they'll just raise taxes.


Honest question: shouldn't the state have been putting money aside for these pensions? It's not like the capitol building burned down. This is an obligation that they've had literally decades to prepare for.
2014-01-28 03:26:29 PM  
2 votes:
Hmm. So if they can set the precedent that pensions are, in fact, a form of property that a person has 'bought' by paying a portion of their paycheck into it...what does that do to all the companies that threw out their pensions and left their retirees with nothing?
2014-01-28 06:46:47 PM  
1 vote:

colon_pow: woo hoo!
bankrupt those suckers.

hello detroit.


Honestly, Detroit could be a valid lesson here.

1) Have something happen that either drives the tax base away (1967 riots), or reduces the value of services received for each tax dollar (actually paying the damn pensions).  It helps if you're insanely corrupt.
2) Raise tax rates.  Some more people leave to go to lower-tax, same service or same-tax, higher-service regions.  Tax income falls.
3) Repeat Step 2
4) Repeat Step 3
...
118) Run out of taxes to raise, and go bankrupt.

You just have to hit a point where cutting taxes kills you short-term, and raising taxes and/or cutting services means that your city/state is no longer the value it was and enough people leave to lower total incomes over the long term.

Mind you, Detroit had the Lodge, so it was really easy to leave and cut your property tax rate in half (and lose the income tax) while actually getting cops and firemen.  YMMV on how well it applies to a whole state.
2014-01-28 06:39:07 PM  
1 vote:

joness0154: Illinois democrats have been farking over the state for years.  Their lack of effort to fix this pension mess has been farking with the average citizens here for a long time


The Republicans are every bit as at fault, considering they ran the show for a considerable about of time in this state from the late 70s to early 2000s (they had the governor's chair from 1977 to 2003 and had the Senate for at least 10 years of that span where they also had the governorship).  The thing is that this state has been machine-controlled for so long, and the "Combine" crosses parties here, it isn't just one or the other.

That, and sometime around 2000 or so the Illinois Republican Party became completely incompetent as an organization.  Republicans who are mad at Obama should also direct their ire at Illinois Republicans for driving Peter Fitzgerald out of running for re-election for the Senate over the Lincoln Library.
2014-01-28 05:58:43 PM  
1 vote:

shroom: R.A.Danny: shroom: But Madigan is a dick.

So is his kid.

What in particular bothers you about Lisa Madigan?  I think she's been doing a pretty good job as attorney general.  She's definitely put some distance between herself and her father since getting elected.


Wanting to release the names of individuals with FOID cards, for one.  She's a coont.
2014-01-28 05:45:19 PM  
1 vote:

BMFPitt: Dalrint: Hmm. So if they can set the precedent that pensions are, in fact, a form of property that a person has 'bought' by paying a portion of their paycheck into it...what does that do to all the companies that threw out their pensions and left their retirees with nothing?

Typically those companies are already bankrupt.


Um, no. Do a little research, both on healthy companies that did this, and others that declared conditional bankruptcy (ie restructured) specifically to dump pension liability rather than adjust exec compensation, reduce dividends, etc. It has been one of the greatest corporate swindle schemes in history.
2014-01-28 04:41:28 PM  
1 vote:

Dr Dreidel: GoldSpider: rcantley: Ohs noes, employees wanting to get what they're contractually guaranteed!

Contracts that make guarantees based on assumptions about future economic conditions should be considered legally unenforceable.

You'd probably have to specify that a bit.

A contract that says "I'll pay you $100 now and $200 when the work is done" assumes the "future economic condition" that I'll have $200 when the work is complete, and would therefore be unenforceable.


So we don't have to pay our credit card bills?
2014-01-28 04:39:05 PM  
1 vote:

GoldSpider: rcantley: Ohs noes, employees wanting to get what they're contractually guaranteed!

Contracts that make guarantees based on assumptions about future economic conditions should be considered legally unenforceable.


You'd probably have to specify that a bit.

A contract that says "I'll pay you $100 now and $200 when the work is done" assumes the "future economic condition" that I'll have $200 when the work is complete, and would therefore be unenforceable.
2014-01-28 04:23:44 PM  
1 vote:

Mercutio74: I've never given people a pass for being spineless and I'm not really encouraged to start now. Besides, what are the unions going to do? Vote Republican?


Back an actual leftist candidate.

MFAWG: Honest question: shouldn't the state have been putting money aside for these pensions? It's not like the capitol building burned down. This is an obligation that they've had literally decades to prepare for.


Yes, and for decades, IL has been ignoring it.

Because of decades of insufficient funding by the General Assembly, TRS, in effect, has less than 41 cents on hand for every $1 promised in retirement benefits to TRS members.

https://trs.illinois.gov/press/reform/sb1.htm

But don't worry, IL had plenty of money to give tax breaks to corporations to keep jobs here, even though they fired workers anyway.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/story/2012-02 -1 6/sears-layoffs-hq/53120300/1
2014-01-28 04:12:46 PM  
1 vote:

Mercutio74: Saiga410: That should be fun given the constitutionally mandated flat income tax.

Ooooh, this is a right wing talking point I haven't encountered yet.  Please elaborate.


SECTION 3. LIMITATIONS ON INCOME TAXATION
    (a)  A tax on or measured by income shall be at a
non-graduated rate. At any one time there may be no more than
one such tax imposed by the State for State purposes on
individuals and one such tax so imposed on corporations. In
any such tax imposed upon corporations the rate shall not
exceed the rate imposed on individuals by more than a ratio
of 8 to 5.


http://www.ilga.gov/commission/lrb/con9.htm">http://www.ilga.gov/com mission/lrb/con9.htm
2014-01-28 03:57:54 PM  
1 vote:

Brick-House: Isn't it a biatch when you run out of other peoples money.


Probably about the same amount of a biatch as it is to agree to a contract without a plan to hold up your end of it.
2014-01-28 03:53:32 PM  
1 vote:

Flargan: HotWingConspiracy: Indeed, stuff costs money. It's crazy.

Also,

Liabilities are legal debts, parties renege on them sometimes. It is very strange.

:)


When the government reneges on a debt, it undermines the fundamentals of a fiat monetary system.  Or you're an indigenous ethnic minority.
2014-01-28 03:46:08 PM  
1 vote:
Here's a list of union made beers.

Alexander Keith's IAMAW
Anheuser-Busch IAMAW, IBT
Bass IAMAW
Beck's IAMAW
Bud Light IAMAW, UFCW, IBT
Budweiser IAMAW, IBT
Budweiser American Ale IAMAW
Busch IAMAW
Czechvar IAMAW
Dundee Craft Beer IBT
Genesee Brewery IBT
Goose Island IAMAW
Hamm's IAMAW, UAW
Henry Weinhard's Blue Boar Pale Ale IAMAW, UAW
Henry Weinhard's Private Reserve IAMAW, UAW
Hoegaarden IAMAW
Icehouse IAMAW, UAW
Kirin IAMAW
Labatt's Blue UFCW, IBT
LaBatt's Blue Light UFCW
Landshark Lager IAMAW
Leffe Blonde IAMAW
Lionshead IUOE
Mad River Brewing Co. IAMAW
Michelob IAMAW
Miller Beer IAMAW, UAW
Miller Genuine Draft IAMAW, UAW
Miller High Life IAMAW, UAW
Miller High Life Lite IAMAW, UAW
Miller Lite IAMAW, UAW
Miller Lite Ice IAMAW, UAW
Milwaukee's Best IAMAW, UAW
Milwaukee's Best Ice IAMAW, UAW
Milwaukee's Best Light IAMAW, UAW
Natural Ice IAMAW
Natural Light IAMAW
O'Doul's IAMAW
Olde English 800 IAMAW, UAW
Pabst UAW
Red Dog UAW
Rolling Rock IAMAW
Sharp's IAMAW, UAW
Shock Top IAMAW
Sparks Malt IAMAW
Staropramen IAMAW
Stegmaier IUOE
Stella Artois IAMAW

Apparently, Yuengling is a right to work brewery and its owner has sworn to make Pennsylvania a right to work state.

So have a cold union made beer while you ponder the real goal of the GOP....
2014-01-28 03:45:13 PM  
1 vote:

joness0154: qorkfiend: joness0154: tlchwi02: super_grass: The real question is: how will Illinois try to close its budget gap, and how hard that will screw over average citizens.

the ones who voted for the politicians who decided to raid and underfund the pension funds to pay for short term projects, knowing full well that eventually these bills would have to be paid?

Lots of (D) after those names...

And?

Illinois democrats have been farking over the state for years.  Their lack of effort to fix this pension mess has been farking with the average citizens here for a long time.


If they're not putting any effort into fixing it, why are we here discussing an article about one of their attempts to fix it?
2014-01-28 03:41:36 PM  
1 vote:

under a mountain: So I guess the Union just expects the State to create the money out of thin air?

Oh wait they'll just raise taxes.


Contracts, how do they work?

/ oh! Only if it benefits the "Job Creators"
2014-01-28 03:39:45 PM  
1 vote:

tlchwi02: super_grass: The real question is: how will Illinois try to close its budget gap, and how hard that will screw over average citizens.

the ones who voted for the politicians who decided to raid and underfund the pension funds to pay for short term projects, knowing full well that eventually these bills would have to be paid?


Lots of (D) after those names...
2014-01-28 03:38:27 PM  
1 vote:

super_grass: The real question is: how will Illinois try to close its budget gap, and how hard that will screw over average citizens.


the ones who voted for the politicians who decided to raid and underfund the pension funds to pay for short term projects, knowing full well that eventually these bills would have to be paid?
2014-01-28 03:25:59 PM  
1 vote:
The real question is: how will Illinois try to close its budget gap, and how hard that will screw over average citizens.
2014-01-28 03:24:35 PM  
1 vote:
So I guess the Union just expects the State to create the money out of thin air?

Oh wait they'll just raise taxes.
2014-01-28 02:03:59 PM  
1 vote:
They will lose. Louisiana tried the same thing. They lost.


http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2013/06/jindal_pension_unconstit ut iona.html


Bobby Jindal is cray cray.
edge.liveleak.com
 
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