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(Chicago Trib)   2013: Illinois lawmakers pass law eviscerating constitutionally protected pensions for state workers and pensions. 2014: Unions get ready to bend Illinois lawmakers over   (chicagotribune.com) divider line 140
    More: Obvious, Illinois, pass laws, Illinois lawmakers, Municipal Employees, Sangamon County, pensions, unions, workers  
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3624 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Jan 2014 at 3:12 PM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-28 02:03:59 PM  
They will lose. Louisiana tried the same thing. They lost.


http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2013/06/jindal_pension_unconstit ut iona.html


Bobby Jindal is cray cray.
edge.liveleak.com
 
2014-01-28 02:14:13 PM  
The pension for a pension?
 
2014-01-28 02:33:14 PM  
"Those Pplaintiffs who are current employees teach our children, care for the sick and disabled, protect us from harm and perform myriad other essential services for Illinois and its citizens.

I know they don't check articles for mistakes before they go up on the Chicago Tribune website.
 
2014-01-28 02:48:12 PM  

Fubini: The pension for a pension?


The penchant for a pension?
 
2014-01-28 03:20:21 PM  

timujin: Fubini: The pension for a pension?

The penchant for a pension?


The penchant of a passion for a pension?
 
2014-01-28 03:22:57 PM  

Rixel: timujin: Fubini: The pension for a pension?

The penchant for a pension?

The penchant of a passion for a pension?


A persistent penchant for a passion for punishing pensions.
 
2014-01-28 03:24:35 PM  
So I guess the Union just expects the State to create the money out of thin air?

Oh wait they'll just raise taxes.
 
2014-01-28 03:24:37 PM  
You know what we need in our political discourse? More rape metaphors.
 
2014-01-28 03:24:49 PM  
Ohs noes, employees wanting to get what they're contractually guaranteed!
 
2014-01-28 03:25:59 PM  
The real question is: how will Illinois try to close its budget gap, and how hard that will screw over average citizens.
 
2014-01-28 03:26:22 PM  

rcantley: Ohs noes, employees wanting to get what they're contractually guaranteed!


Silly poors. Contracts are for job-creators.
 
2014-01-28 03:26:29 PM  
Hmm. So if they can set the precedent that pensions are, in fact, a form of property that a person has 'bought' by paying a portion of their paycheck into it...what does that do to all the companies that threw out their pensions and left their retirees with nothing?
 
2014-01-28 03:26:30 PM  

under a mountain: So I guess the Union just expects the State to create the money out of thin air?


I think they expect them to abide by the law and honor their agreements.

Oh wait they'll just raise taxes.

Indeed, stuff costs money. It's crazy.
 
2014-01-28 03:27:08 PM  
Just wait until the unions rebel and start to vote R.
 
2014-01-28 03:28:38 PM  

under a mountain: So I guess the Union just expects the State to create the money out of thin air?

Oh wait they'll just raise taxes.


That should be fun given the constitutionally mandated flat income tax.
 
2014-01-28 03:37:19 PM  

Dalrint: Hmm. So if they can set the precedent that pensions are, in fact, a form of property that a person has 'bought' by paying a portion of their paycheck into it...what does that do to all the companies that threw out their pensions and left their retirees with nothing?


Galt Gods!
 
2014-01-28 03:38:27 PM  

super_grass: The real question is: how will Illinois try to close its budget gap, and how hard that will screw over average citizens.


the ones who voted for the politicians who decided to raid and underfund the pension funds to pay for short term projects, knowing full well that eventually these bills would have to be paid?
 
2014-01-28 03:38:56 PM  

Dalrint: Hmm. So if they can set the precedent that pensions are, in fact, a form of property that a person has 'bought' by paying a portion of their paycheck into it...what does that do to all the companies that threw out their pensions and left their retirees with nothing?


Chapters 11 and/or 13.  The Shareholders' right to maximized profit is not to be suborned to mere contract law or morality.
 
2014-01-28 03:39:08 PM  

Dalrint: Hmm. So if they can set the precedent that pensions are, in fact, a form of property that a person has 'bought' by paying a portion of their paycheck into it...what does that do to all the companies that threw out their pensions and left their retirees with nothing?


It's different when a company does it - it's not part of the constitution.
 
2014-01-28 03:39:45 PM  

tlchwi02: super_grass: The real question is: how will Illinois try to close its budget gap, and how hard that will screw over average citizens.

the ones who voted for the politicians who decided to raid and underfund the pension funds to pay for short term projects, knowing full well that eventually these bills would have to be paid?


Lots of (D) after those names...
 
2014-01-28 03:41:36 PM  

under a mountain: So I guess the Union just expects the State to create the money out of thin air?

Oh wait they'll just raise taxes.


Contracts, how do they work?

/ oh! Only if it benefits the "Job Creators"
 
2014-01-28 03:41:40 PM  

joness0154: tlchwi02: super_grass: The real question is: how will Illinois try to close its budget gap, and how hard that will screw over average citizens.

the ones who voted for the politicians who decided to raid and underfund the pension funds to pay for short term projects, knowing full well that eventually these bills would have to be paid?

Lots of (D) after those names...


And?
 
2014-01-28 03:42:28 PM  

A Cave Geek: Rixel: timujin: Fubini: The pension for a pension?

The penchant for a pension?

The penchant of a passion for a pension?

A persistent penchant for a passion for punishing pensions.


"The pellet with the poison's in the flagon with the dragon; the vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true."
 
2014-01-28 03:43:56 PM  

qorkfiend: joness0154: tlchwi02: super_grass: The real question is: how will Illinois try to close its budget gap, and how hard that will screw over average citizens.

the ones who voted for the politicians who decided to raid and underfund the pension funds to pay for short term projects, knowing full well that eventually these bills would have to be paid?

Lots of (D) after those names...

And?


Illinois democrats have been farking over the state for years.  Their lack of effort to fix this pension mess has been farking with the average citizens here for a long time.
 
2014-01-28 03:44:19 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Indeed, stuff costs money. It's crazy.


Also,

Liabilities are legal debts, parties renege on them sometimes. It is very strange.

:)
 
2014-01-28 03:44:53 PM  
"Work for us now and we'll pay part of what we owe you now, and we'll pay part when you're retired"

Years later:

"Turns out we can't afford what we promised.  Oops!"

Pensions are such a bad idea.
 
2014-01-28 03:45:13 PM  

joness0154: qorkfiend: joness0154: tlchwi02: super_grass: The real question is: how will Illinois try to close its budget gap, and how hard that will screw over average citizens.

the ones who voted for the politicians who decided to raid and underfund the pension funds to pay for short term projects, knowing full well that eventually these bills would have to be paid?

Lots of (D) after those names...

And?

Illinois democrats have been farking over the state for years.  Their lack of effort to fix this pension mess has been farking with the average citizens here for a long time.


If they're not putting any effort into fixing it, why are we here discussing an article about one of their attempts to fix it?
 
2014-01-28 03:46:08 PM  
Here's a list of union made beers.

Alexander Keith's IAMAW
Anheuser-Busch IAMAW, IBT
Bass IAMAW
Beck's IAMAW
Bud Light IAMAW, UFCW, IBT
Budweiser IAMAW, IBT
Budweiser American Ale IAMAW
Busch IAMAW
Czechvar IAMAW
Dundee Craft Beer IBT
Genesee Brewery IBT
Goose Island IAMAW
Hamm's IAMAW, UAW
Henry Weinhard's Blue Boar Pale Ale IAMAW, UAW
Henry Weinhard's Private Reserve IAMAW, UAW
Hoegaarden IAMAW
Icehouse IAMAW, UAW
Kirin IAMAW
Labatt's Blue UFCW, IBT
LaBatt's Blue Light UFCW
Landshark Lager IAMAW
Leffe Blonde IAMAW
Lionshead IUOE
Mad River Brewing Co. IAMAW
Michelob IAMAW
Miller Beer IAMAW, UAW
Miller Genuine Draft IAMAW, UAW
Miller High Life IAMAW, UAW
Miller High Life Lite IAMAW, UAW
Miller Lite IAMAW, UAW
Miller Lite Ice IAMAW, UAW
Milwaukee's Best IAMAW, UAW
Milwaukee's Best Ice IAMAW, UAW
Milwaukee's Best Light IAMAW, UAW
Natural Ice IAMAW
Natural Light IAMAW
O'Doul's IAMAW
Olde English 800 IAMAW, UAW
Pabst UAW
Red Dog UAW
Rolling Rock IAMAW
Sharp's IAMAW, UAW
Shock Top IAMAW
Sparks Malt IAMAW
Staropramen IAMAW
Stegmaier IUOE
Stella Artois IAMAW

Apparently, Yuengling is a right to work brewery and its owner has sworn to make Pennsylvania a right to work state.

So have a cold union made beer while you ponder the real goal of the GOP....
 
2014-01-28 03:48:26 PM  

Saiga410: That should be fun given the constitutionally mandated flat income tax.


Ooooh, this is a right wing talking point I haven't encountered yet.  Please elaborate.
 
2014-01-28 03:48:27 PM  

Katolu: under a mountain: So I guess the Union just expects the State to create the money out of thin air?

Oh wait they'll just raise taxes.

Contracts, how do they work?

/ oh! Only if it benefits the "Job Creators"



And who wrote the contracts?

Politicians supported by union members and union dues.
Seems fair.

Good luck Illinois.
 
2014-01-28 03:48:47 PM  

Xetal: "Work for us now and we'll pay part of what we owe you now, and we'll pay part when you're retired"

Years later:

"Turns out we can't afford what we promised.  Oops!"

Pensions are such a bad idea.


While that is certainly proving to be true, it's insane that the reaction to this is to be pissed off at the people trying not to get farked over instead of the people trying to fark them over.

/I know that's not what you're saying
//Looking at you, submidiot...
 
2014-01-28 03:53:32 PM  

Flargan: HotWingConspiracy: Indeed, stuff costs money. It's crazy.

Also,

Liabilities are legal debts, parties renege on them sometimes. It is very strange.

:)


When the government reneges on a debt, it undermines the fundamentals of a fiat monetary system.  Or you're an indigenous ethnic minority.
 
2014-01-28 03:54:09 PM  
i.huffpost.com
 
2014-01-28 03:54:21 PM  
Isn't it a biatch when you run out of other peoples money.
 
2014-01-28 03:57:11 PM  

palelizard: Flargan: HotWingConspiracy: Indeed, stuff costs money. It's crazy.

Also,

Liabilities are legal debts, parties renege on them sometimes. It is very strange.

:)

When the government reneges on a debt, it undermines the fundamentals of a fiat monetary system.  Or you're an indigenous ethnic minority.



Fed, yes.  State gov't.  Not so much.
 
2014-01-28 03:57:42 PM  
This isn't hard to figure out.  The state needs to borrow until they go bankrupt, then the federal government will bail them out.  Repeat until financial meltdown.
 
2014-01-28 03:57:54 PM  

Brick-House: Isn't it a biatch when you run out of other peoples money.


Probably about the same amount of a biatch as it is to agree to a contract without a plan to hold up your end of it.
 
2014-01-28 04:01:48 PM  

cretinbob: [i.huffpost.com image 570x238]


Scooter Mcderpy should worry about his craptastic jobs numbers
 
2014-01-28 04:01:57 PM  

Xetal: "Work for us now and we'll pay part of what we owe you now, and we'll pay part when you're retired"

Years later:

"Turns out we can't afford what we promised.  Oops!"

Pensions are such a bad idea.


When I become Emperor, deferred compensation is the second thing to go.

Right after daylight savings time.
 
2014-01-28 04:02:22 PM  

paygun: This isn't hard to figure out.  The state needs to borrow until they go bankrupt, then the federal government will bail them out.  Repeat until financial meltdown.


Or they need to figure out a plan that's not, you know, in violation of the state Constitution.
 
2014-01-28 04:06:03 PM  

under a mountain: palelizard: Flargan: HotWingConspiracy: Indeed, stuff costs money. It's crazy.

Also,

Liabilities are legal debts, parties renege on them sometimes. It is very strange.

:)

When the government reneges on a debt, it undermines the fundamentals of a fiat monetary system.  Or you're an indigenous ethnic minority.


Fed, yes.  State gov't.  Not so much.


To an extent.  Obviously the dollar isn't going to fail because of Illinois, but as far as local stuff goes, I would be very leery about taking any kind of IOU from the Illinois government.  Everything would need to be paid up front, before delivering any services.  It certainly doesn't lend itself to getting things done.
 
2014-01-28 04:09:12 PM  

paygun: This isn't hard to figure out. The state needs to borrow until they go bankrupt, then the federal government will bail them out. Repeat until financial meltdown.


Might as well tap the same lender of last resort for damage caused by the same toxic assets.
 
2014-01-28 04:09:33 PM  

Mercutio74: Brick-House: Isn't it a biatch when you run out of other peoples money.

Probably about the same amount of a biatch as it is to agree to a contract without a plan to hold up your end of it.


This is how these contract negotiations  work.

Politician: The state can't afford to give raises and pension increases.

Union:  Well if you don't we will withdraw our $upport for you, tell our members not to vote for you, and not give your idiot brother in law a no show job.  Oh and leak to our members in the press what you do with your free time away from the wife.

Politician: Ok it seems your demands are reasonable after all.
 
2014-01-28 04:12:46 PM  

Mercutio74: Saiga410: That should be fun given the constitutionally mandated flat income tax.

Ooooh, this is a right wing talking point I haven't encountered yet.  Please elaborate.


SECTION 3. LIMITATIONS ON INCOME TAXATION
    (a)  A tax on or measured by income shall be at a
non-graduated rate. At any one time there may be no more than
one such tax imposed by the State for State purposes on
individuals and one such tax so imposed on corporations. In
any such tax imposed upon corporations the rate shall not
exceed the rate imposed on individuals by more than a ratio
of 8 to 5.


http://www.ilga.gov/commission/lrb/con9.htm">http://www.ilga.gov/com mission/lrb/con9.htm
 
2014-01-28 04:13:53 PM  

Saiga410: Mercutio74: Saiga410: That should be fun given the constitutionally mandated flat income tax.

Ooooh, this is a right wing talking point I haven't encountered yet.  Please elaborate.

SECTION 3. LIMITATIONS ON INCOME TAXATION
    (a)  A tax on or measured by income shall be at a
non-graduated rate. At any one time there may be no more than
one such tax imposed by the State for State purposes on
individuals and one such tax so imposed on corporations. In
any such tax imposed upon corporations the rate shall not
exceed the rate imposed on individuals by more than a ratio
of 8 to 5.


http://www.ilga.gov/commission/lrb/con9.htm">http://www.ilga.gov/com mission/lrb/con9.htm


Oh, I thought you meant the federal one.  Nevermind.
 
2014-01-28 04:14:55 PM  

under a mountain: So I guess the Union just expects the State to create the money out of thin air?

Oh wait they'll just raise taxes.


Honest question: shouldn't the state have been putting money aside for these pensions? It's not like the capitol building burned down. This is an obligation that they've had literally decades to prepare for.
 
2014-01-28 04:15:09 PM  

under a mountain: This is how these contract negotiations work.

Politician: The state can't afford to give raises and pension increases.

Union: Well if you don't we will withdraw our $upport for you, tell our members not to vote for you, and not give your idiot brother in law a no show job. Oh and leak to our members in the press what you do with your free time away from the wife.

Politician: Ok it seems your demands are reasonable after all.


I've never given people a pass for being spineless and I'm not really encouraged to start now.  Besides, what are the unions going to do?  Vote Republican?  Yeah... that'll show... umm... those unions.
 
2014-01-28 04:18:05 PM  
Just neoliberal democrats at work.  Management has more money for campaign contributions that Unions do.
 
2014-01-28 04:18:22 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Here's a list of union made beers.

Alexander Keith's IAMAW
Anheuser-Busch IAMAW, IBT
Bass IAMAW
Beck's IAMAW
Bud Light IAMAW, UFCW, IBT
Budweiser IAMAW, IBT
Budweiser American Ale IAMAW
Busch IAMAW
Czechvar IAMAW
Dundee Craft Beer IBT
Genesee Brewery IBT
Goose Island IAMAW
Hamm's IAMAW, UAW
Henry Weinhard's Blue Boar Pale Ale IAMAW, UAW
Henry Weinhard's Private Reserve IAMAW, UAW
Hoegaarden IAMAW
Icehouse IAMAW, UAW
Kirin IAMAW
Labatt's Blue UFCW, IBT
LaBatt's Blue Light UFCW
Landshark Lager IAMAW
Leffe Blonde IAMAW
Lionshead IUOE
Mad River Brewing Co. IAMAW
Michelob IAMAW
Miller Beer IAMAW, UAW
Miller Genuine Draft IAMAW, UAW
Miller High Life IAMAW, UAW
Miller High Life Lite IAMAW, UAW
Miller Lite IAMAW, UAW
Miller Lite Ice IAMAW, UAW
Milwaukee's Best IAMAW, UAW
Milwaukee's Best Ice IAMAW, UAW
Milwaukee's Best Light IAMAW, UAW
Natural Ice IAMAW
Natural Light IAMAW
O'Doul's IAMAW
Olde English 800 IAMAW, UAW
Pabst UAW
Red Dog UAW
Rolling Rock IAMAW
Sharp's IAMAW, UAW
Shock Top IAMAW
Sparks Malt IAMAW
Staropramen IAMAW
Stegmaier IUOE
Stella Artois IAMAW

Apparently, Yuengling is a right to work brewery and its owner has sworn to make Pennsylvania a right to work state.

So have a cold union made beer while you ponder the real goal of the GOP....


PA is already a right to work state.
 
2014-01-28 04:19:22 PM  

palelizard: To an extent. Obviously the dollar isn't going to fail because of Illinois, but as far as local stuff goes, I would be very leery about taking any kind of IOU from the Illinois government. Everything would need to be paid up front, before delivering any services. It certainly doesn't lend itself to getting things done.


I didn't know for certain if we would all be here enjoy this but between the chronic underfunding, the promise of impossible return rates, the occasional raiding, and the frenzied purchase of garbage securities, the show started early.
 
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