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(The Big Story)   NEWS: Attorney of death row inmate executed last week suspended and under investigation. FARK: Guards say attorney coached client to "make a show of his death"   (bigstory.ap.org) divider line 221
    More: Followup, death row, Ohio, convicts, OPD, The Columbus Dispatch, point guards  
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8930 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jan 2014 at 12:22 PM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



221 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-28 01:16:31 PM

dittybopper: devildog123: You know, his defense attorneys weren't arguing that he didn't do it, just that the way they were killing him sucked and was painful.  If he actually did what they said, he raped and murdered a young, pregnant woman.  I have a fairly painless way to get rid of these people if that's the only thing that is bothering them.

I don't even particularly care if the way they killed him sucked and was painful, so long as it wasn't some egregiously drawn out torture session.

A few minutes of painful existence before you actually die?  No different than many heart attack victims.  Doesn't seem particularly cruel or unusual.


It goes to the heart of why we execute criminals in the first place, though.  Capital punishment is supposed to be a deterrent, not punishment for punishment's sake.  Now, granted, I've never been killed, so I can't say this with ABSOLUTE certainty, but dying, period, is all the deterrent I need to never commit a capital offense.

We can argue back and forth all day long about the merits of capital punishment itself, but this is--or at least should be--indisputable: not reveling in, or not being indifferent to, the pain of our society's rulebreakers when we punish them is what should separate us from those rulebreakers.
 
2014-01-28 01:17:06 PM
HaywoodJablonski


That poor attorney. First executed and then suspended and investigated.

What's next: killing his firstborn?

Too Jewish.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-01-28 01:18:39 PM

FlyingJ: make 'a show' of it, eh?
[i815.photobucket.com image 259x401]


vgboxart.com
 
2014-01-28 01:18:50 PM
Wonder how much pain and suffering these people go through.  Hard to say because we paralyze them before giving them the lethal drugs.

I tend to think this would be the most humane way to go (if done correctly):

img.photobucket.com
/sorry for the spoiler
 
2014-01-28 01:19:46 PM

lennavan: For farks sake people. Lots of reasons to be pro or anti death penalty. But stop making shiat up.


Ignoring the fact that you supported absolutely none of your claims with citations before accusing everyone else of making things up...

It doesn't matter if the drugs are the same as those used in other applications or not. Drugs, particularly sedatives, can have wildly different affects on the body depending on their concentration.

You can confirm this fact on a small scale in your own home with everyday alcoholic beverages if you're so inclined.

Even if we accept your claims about the drugs at face value, your conclusions still cannot be accepted based solely on your provided reasoning.
 
2014-01-28 01:20:02 PM

Mugato: Attorney of death row inmate executed last week

That's a good start. What happened to the guy on death row?


Lulz, good sir. Lulz.
 
2014-01-28 01:20:03 PM
If I was being executed I'm not sure I have the commitment or diligence to try and follow a script offered by my lawyer. Particularly as they'd sucked in their job at keeping me alive.
 
2014-01-28 01:20:16 PM
Just more proof that lawyers are as much a part of the problem as anything else.
 
2014-01-28 01:21:07 PM

dittybopper: A few minutes of painful existence before you actually die?  No different than many heart attack victims.  Doesn't seem particularly cruel or unusual.


try it
 
2014-01-28 01:22:27 PM

dittybopper: It does do one thing really well:  It prevents the person from ever committing another heinous crime.


If only there were some way we could segregate dangerous people from society so we didn't need to worry about the danger they pose.
 
2014-01-28 01:23:13 PM
So, they're saying someone who is evil and demented enough to rape and kill a pregnant woman wouldn't be evil and demented enough to put on a show resembling torture for those in attendance at his execution?  That he had to be coached into doing so and farking with the heads of all those present? Really?  Even if the attorney suggested it, this would be like giving a bone to a dog and then saying "chew on this".
 
2014-01-28 01:23:22 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: "He wants me to put on this big show in front of my kids, all right when I'm dying!" McGuire is reported as having told one guard. "I ain't gonna do this. It's about me and my kids, not him and his cause!"

It's not hearsay when three guards corroborate their lies...oops, their statements.


They phoned this one in. No one believes this,BS, right?

mcreadyblue: generallyso: Doesn't lethal injection render the person unconscious very early in the process?

They used new drugs.


That didn't work well and they certainly can't admit it now can they?
 
2014-01-28 01:23:25 PM

dittybopper: Serious Post on Serious Thread: dittybopper: Protected by attorney-client privilege, and in any case, "making a show of your death" as a way to protest capital punishment is protected political speech.

Not reading all this crap again so sorry I repeat, but: 1. No attorney-client priv if client volunteered info to non-privileged party. 2. Didn't understand yr first amend point initially, but got it. I think it'd be more of a possible Bar violation of ethics for the attorney, which is highly situational and subjective. Not really a free speech issue.

Yeah, Umm, I admitted to posting that before reading the farkin' article.


Yeah ummm, as I admitted I didn't read/re-read all this crap b/c the last thread was ITG barfworthy.

BUT I *did* follow your link above and that's wrong too. Attorney client priv doesn't terminate with the client's death.
 
2014-01-28 01:25:25 PM
The process would be a lot smoother if a certain political group wasn't trying to ban the import and creation of the chemicals used in the process.
 
2014-01-28 01:25:29 PM

skozlaw: Ignoring the fact that you supported absolutely none of your claims with citations before accusing everyone else of making things up...


Do I really need to?  It will take you 2 minutes of googling TOPS to figure it out for yourself.  If youre not willing to do 2 minutes of googling, there's no way in hell you'd bother reading any citation I gave you.

skozlaw: It doesn't matter if the drugs are the same as those used in other applications or not. Drugs, particularly sedatives, can have wildly different affects on the body depending on their concentration.


Kinda makes you wonder why we even bother giving these medications for surgery then, right?  I mean, it's just a crapshoot, so many patients suffocate and suffer during surgery and whatnot.  Lawsuits are common.

skozlaw: You can confirm this fact on a small scale in your own home with everyday alcoholic beverages if you're so inclined.


Right.  Some people drink alcohol and get drunk, others suffocate, some still become super strong and many alcohol has no effect on.  Drinking definitely has different effects on different people.  Good example.

skozlaw: Even if we accept your claims about the drugs at face value


YOU DONT HAVE TO, YOU HAVE GOOGLE.COM YOU DIPSHIAT
 
2014-01-28 01:26:09 PM

mcreadyblue: generallyso: Doesn't lethal injection render the person unconscious very early in the process?

They used new drugs.


What new drugs did they use?
 
2014-01-28 01:27:47 PM
dittybopper: My idea for the perfect, painless execution is this:

Implode the criminals head.

No, seriously:  Have them wear a device on their head that is similar in construction to how the Fat Man/Trinity nuclear bomb:  Using "slow" explosive inclusions or "lenses" imbedded in "fast" explosives to make a nearly circular shockwave front to implode the head of the person being executed.



Your thinking: I like.

The gadgety goodness of nukes, with several million points out of ten for showmanship.

Still, I'd vote for Nitrogen asphyxiation too. Simple, cheap, painless, less messy. Usher them into a room, with a TV, recliner, bowl of chicken wings, tell them to "wait right here", leave and lock the door, quietly flood the room with N2.

/really, I think this is how I'll put my dogs down when it's their time, and me too later...
 
2014-01-28 01:28:03 PM

profplump: dittybopper: It does do one thing really well:  It prevents the person from ever committing another heinous crime.

If only there were some way we could segregate dangerous people from society so we didn't need to worry about the danger they pose.


That worked for society in Ted Bundy's case when they locked him up in Colorado-until he escaped and went on to murder even more women and young girls in Florida. Thankfully Florida had the intelligence to finally put a stop to him.

Some people you can only stop-for sure-by killing.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-01-28 01:28:42 PM

Magorn: dittybopper: Protected by attorney-client privilege, and in any case, "making a show of your death" as a way to protest capital punishment is protected political speech.

Agreed. and the investigation has already closed for lack of evidence that actually happened

furthermore not sure how the inmate who was supposed to be paralyzed and completely sedated by the fatal drugs could have "made a show" of anything.

 IF watching the man die bothers somebody, maybe they should reconsider their stance on the Death penalty .  In my opinion, backed up by DP cases I have helped handle,Capital Punishment is nothing more than a fancy name for killing another human being deliberately cause it made you feel good.  It serves no financial, or legal, or even deterrent purpose, and is nothing more than revenge.


It certainly does NOT make me feel good. What a cavalier and presumptuous thing to say!
However, at some point it makes sense to remove a miscreant from society and end thei ability to harm another person. EVER.
P E R I O D.

We need to revamp laws so that stupid things like small drug infractions don't land your ass in jail.
We are paying for far too many to be housed on the cost, and far too many are jailed for silly crap as well.

Then, we need to be clear on the line we draw as to what will get you killed.
Call the killing whatever the frik you wish. Murder, death, execution, etc. I don't care. Semantics, all of it.
When a person decides to continually cause death or suffering of others it's time to look at next steps for them.
If they are unremorseful, unrepentant and clearly intend on continuing with their crap then, Adieu. Bonsoir.
 
2014-01-28 01:30:01 PM

dittybopper: Magorn: It serves no financial, or legal, or even deterrent purpose, and is nothing more than revenge.

It does do one thing really well:  It prevents the person from ever committing another heinous crime.


which can be accomplished just as well, and for far less money, if you merely imprison the person for the rest of his life too
 
2014-01-28 01:30:09 PM
Man, that's not the way I want to go.

I want to be struck in the back of the head, completely by surprise.

By the space shuttle on takeoff.

// Missed my chance.
 
2014-01-28 01:30:27 PM
They gave him IV Dilaudid.  He died in ecstasy, not agony.  If he was gasping for air it was because he didn't want the brain orgasm to end.
 
2014-01-28 01:31:45 PM

nekom: only the clearly guilty beyond any shadow of a doubt should be taken to the gallows and hanged immediately after that guilt is determined.


Every single person who has been released from death row for false conviction was found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-01-28 01:32:04 PM

mcreadyblue: generallyso: Doesn't lethal injection render the person unconscious very early in the process?

They used new drugs.


But.....he WANTED the new drug.......
img.fark.net
 
2014-01-28 01:33:13 PM

CalvinMorallis: Capital punishment is supposed to be a deterrent, not punishment for punishment's sake.


No, it isn't.

The purpose of any punishment isn't to deter, per se.  The honest and moral people don't need such things to keep them on the straight and narrow, and the people that are liable to commit crimes generally don't think about the potential consequences of their actions in the first place.

Certainly, there is very little evidence that increased penalties lower crime rates via deterrence, and some evidence that they lower crime rates by removing those people who are predisposed to commit crimes from society for a longer period.

The purpose of all legal punishments, as least as far as incarceration goes, is to remove a dangerous person from society.   We make some effort to "rehabilitate" those who we feel can be rehabilitated, and sometimes it actually works for non-violent criminals (but rarely for the really violent ones), but that's a secondary consideration.

I don't know where this idea that a prison sentence or the death penalty is supposed to be a deterrent came from, but no matter what you feel the answer is, it's the wrong question in the first place.

Violent criminals (the type that get the death penalty), almost by definition, have poor impulse control.  They live in the moment.  They might plan a crime, but they don't look towards the future consequences of getting caught, going to trial, and being convicted and punished.

They just don't think that far ahead.

So the idea of any particular set of legal punishments being a deterrent to that sort of person is simply laughable when you actually *THINK* about it.
 
2014-01-28 01:33:38 PM
a particular individual:
Every single person who has been released from death row for false conviction was found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Right, which is why I think the burden of proof should be even higher than that if we're going to be killing someone.  Though I still oppose the death penalty for any number of other reasons.
 
2014-01-28 01:34:09 PM

CalvinMorallis: dittybopper: devildog123: You know, his defense attorneys weren't arguing that he didn't do it, just that the way they were killing him sucked and was painful.  If he actually did what they said, he raped and murdered a young, pregnant woman.  I have a fairly painless way to get rid of these people if that's the only thing that is bothering them.

I don't even particularly care if the way they killed him sucked and was painful, so long as it wasn't some egregiously drawn out torture session.

A few minutes of painful existence before you actually die?  No different than many heart attack victims.  Doesn't seem particularly cruel or unusual.

It goes to the heart of why we execute criminals in the first place, though.  Capital punishment is supposed to be a deterrent, not punishment for punishment's sake.  Now, granted, I've never been killed, so I can't say this with ABSOLUTE certainty, but dying, period, is all the deterrent I need to never commit a capital offense.

We can argue back and forth all day long about the merits of capital punishment itself, but this is--or at least should be--indisputable: not reveling in, or not being indifferent to, the pain of our society's rulebreakers when we punish them is what should separate us from those rulebreakers.


Do you think it really does this?   This guy committed his Murder in 1989.  25 Years ago,    What's the average age of Murderer?  How many of them are old enough to connect the crime with the execution?
 
2014-01-28 01:35:26 PM
You'll excuse me if I don't take the word of people who choose to work as prison guards in a death house.
 
2014-01-28 01:35:52 PM

CrazyCracka420: I tend to think this would be the most humane way to go (if done correctly):


Head lives on for a long-ish time.  There is evidence of conscious action of a severed head from a guillotine for up to 20 seconds or so, and the amount of time the severed head can still perceive their surroundings is likely to be even longer.
 
2014-01-28 01:36:56 PM
Guards say attorney coached client to "make a show of his death"

It's of my opinion that these guards are a bunch of sadists who are entirely overflowing with bullsh*t.
 
2014-01-28 01:36:59 PM

dittybopper: CrazyCracka420: I tend to think this would be the most humane way to go (if done correctly):

Head lives on for a long-ish time.  There is evidence of conscious action of a severed head from a guillotine for up to 20 seconds or so, and the amount of time the severed head can still perceive their surroundings is likely to be even longer.


Yes, it's a particularly cruel death when you think on it.
 
2014-01-28 01:37:09 PM

a particular individual: nekom: only the clearly guilty beyond any shadow of a doubt should be taken to the gallows and hanged immediately after that guilt is determined.

Every single person who has been released from death row for false conviction was found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.


So the extensive, lengthy appeals process works?
 
2014-01-28 01:37:25 PM
Who cares that he suffered? I'm fairly sure he wasn't concerned about cruel and unusual when he was raping and killing that girl. Think about what horrors the girl was going through during the ordeal. And the bastard lived decades after he killed her. No sympathy for him.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-01-28 01:37:27 PM

Magorn: dittybopper: Magorn: It serves no financial, or legal, or even deterrent purpose, and is nothing more than revenge.

It does do one thing really well:  It prevents the person from ever committing another heinous crime.

which can be accomplished just as well, and for far less money, if you merely imprison the person for the rest of his life too


But if they are unapologetic, unprepentant, remorseless, and intent hurting others and on doing so at any possible chance, jail just contains the problem to smaller confines. Why should the poor asshole who stupidly smuggled drugs but never really committed a violent crime have to get thrown in with the guy whos' answer to "Why did you kill everyone in the house?" is "They were home".

And why should society pay for all this? Last I checked Max/Super-max incarceration if exorbitantly expensive for us taxpayers.
 
2014-01-28 01:37:47 PM

Theaetetus: NickelP: I keep asking this and not getting an answer.  When you take your pet to the vet it takes about 15 seconds and they die with a smile and don't seem uncomfortable at all.  It took this dude 20 minutes+ to suffocate.  What are they teaching at vet school that these folks are ignoring?

The use of drugs that the manufacturers refuse to sell to prisons, because they don't want them associated with killing people.

Which is not unreasonable. However, you could also do it with a gas chamber and nitrogen. Dude peacefully goes to sleep, dies without twitching within 5 minutes.


dittybopper: sambluesnark: Stile4aly: Two words: Nitrogen asphyxiation.

Carbon Monoxide. Levels above 12000 ppm (1.28% of atmospheric gases) are recommended.
Unconscious within 2-3 breathes, death occurs in under 3 minutes.

My idea for the perfect, painless execution is this:

Implode the criminals head.

No, seriously:  Have them wear a device on their head that is similar in construction to how the Fat Man/Trinity nuclear bomb:  Using "slow" explosive inclusions or "lenses" imbedded in "fast" explosives to make a nearly circular shockwave front to implode the head of the person being executed.

Because the shockwave of every explosive you might possibly use is faster than nerve conduction speed, death from the standpoint of the criminal happens before they can even perceive it:  The shockwave will have destroyed their head before their nerves have enough time to conduct the sensations of heat, light, pressure, pain, etc. to the (now destroyed) brain.

It's like shutting off a light, you exist, and then nothing.  Not even a very fleeting perception of the end.

Of course, it's messy, which is why I think it hasn't really caught on.


Implosion would also be somewhat expensive and run into the same potential for the manufacturers of said explosives to not want them used this way. Carbon monoxide has to go somewhere somehow once it's used, and we already have enough in our atmosphere from other causes, thenkyewverramuch.

Nitrogen is nearly 80% of the atmosphere as it is. It's necessary for life processes, so no need to be concerned about disposal. It would be cheap and very effective. No feeling of suffocation, as that results not from the lack of oxygen but from carbon dioxide buildup, which wouldn't happen with nitrogen asphyxiation. You breathe normally, maybe feel a bit light-headed, then lights out.
 
2014-01-28 01:38:38 PM

gshepnyc: You'll excuse me if I don't take the word of people who choose to work as prison guards in a death house.



Not sure why that should disqualify them from anything, but ummm, ok?


/there normally isn't a lot of opportunity in a prison town.
 
2014-01-28 01:40:18 PM

Magorn: dittybopper: Magorn: It serves no financial, or legal, or even deterrent purpose, and is nothing more than revenge.

It does do one thing really well:  It prevents the person from ever committing another heinous crime.

which can be accomplished just as well, and for far less money, if you merely imprison the person for the rest of his life too


Until, of course, they murder someone in prison.

Oh, I suppose you could put them in permanent isolation at a supermax prison and drive them aslowly insane, but that seems more cruel than simply killing them.
 
2014-01-28 01:41:10 PM

generallyso: Doesn't lethal injection render the person unconscious very early in the process?


Yes, IF it is done in a professional and competent way.

But in this case however, we had a penal system Hell-bent on murdering some people even if the drug companies boycotted them, so they had Beavis & Butthead working the buttons.

"Whoah! uh huh huh huh. Look at him gasp, or something. uh huh huh huh. huh huh"

"Yeah! Hmhh heh heh heh heh. Now he's moving up and down. Push another button Butthead. Push em! PUSH EM! BOoOOoOIiiINNNNNnNGGGG!!Mh heh ehehehehheheheehe....!"
 
2014-01-28 01:41:28 PM

Magorn: How many of them are old enough to connect the crime with the execution?


I don't support the death penalty, but the deterrerent is not for the defendant, it is for others who see that the death penalty is a crappy way to go.
 
2014-01-28 01:43:02 PM

nekom: If we MUST have the death penalty, I think it should have an even higher burden of proof, only the clearly guilty beyond any shadow of a doubt black should be taken to the gallows and hanged immediately after that guilt is determined.


Texasised that for you.
 
2014-01-28 01:43:28 PM

COMALite J: Nitrogen is nearly 80% of the atmosphere as it is. It's necessary for life processes, so no need to be concerned about disposal. It would be cheap and very effective. No feeling of suffocation, as that results not from the lack of oxygen but from carbon dioxide buildup, which wouldn't happen with nitrogen asphyxiation. You breathe normally, maybe feel a bit light-headed, then lights out.


Actually, just replace the typical 80/20 mixture of nitrogen/oxygen with an 80/20 mixture of nitrogen/helium, and make them read their final words that way.

/For hilarious justice.
 
2014-01-28 01:44:04 PM

lennavan: Do I really need to?


Yes, that's how arguments work. If you make a claim, it's your job to support it. If you refuse to support it, it is fair for everyone else to write it off without any further consideration. You are obligated to support your own arguments, everybody else is not obligated to seek support for them.

Your way would be stupid since anybody adhering to it could just argue for eternity that they're not wrong, everybody else just isn't finding the evidence properly.

lennavan: Right. Some people drink alcohol and get drunk, others suffocate, some still become super strong and many alcohol has no effect on. Drinking definitely has different effects on different people. Good example.


Indeed. In fact, it's one of the best examples of hormesis, which is itself a great example of a non-linear dose-response where the effects at one dosage can be wildly different at another dosage even to the point that a low level is beneficial while a high level is outright destructive.

Not that I think you have the slightest idea of what any of that means, based on your prior comments, but now you can go inform yourself, at least of the basis, and perhaps come back with an argument that makes some measure of sense.
Although I somehow doubt you'll do any of that since it seems you've decided instead to just wail and gnash your teeth based on how you imagine the world works rather than bothering to learn about how it really does work in this instance.
 
2014-01-28 01:45:04 PM
So, wait, wait.. all of this is based on stuff that the convicted murderer told guards and stuff that they heard the convicted murderer tell his family?

I'm not saying the conversation between the lawyer and the killer didn't happen, but it isn't like the guards overheard that conversation.

From the guards' perspective, I bet this is all standard issue CYA stuff issued from higher up.
 
2014-01-28 01:45:11 PM
I still say... huge reinforced pit with a one-way trapdoor.

Pull the lever, down they go, forget about them.

Have the pit built with a self-cleaning fire system to be done every year.
 
2014-01-28 01:45:38 PM

lennavan: I swear everyone involved here is stupid.

To the anti-death penalty people - The drugs used are the same ones used during surgery.  10 minutes in he wasn't struggling for breath, he was unconscious.  When a brain dead person on life support makes an audible gasp or something like it, the doctors explain it's a reflex, not a conscious breath.  So no, this guy making a noise 10 minutes later doesn't mean he suffocated to death.  He didn't suffer, he had the same medications surgery patients get.  He died quite peacefully.

To the pro-death penalty people - The drugs used are the same ones used during surgery.  10 minutes in he wasn't acting, he was unconscious.  When a brain dead person on life support makes an audible gasp or something like it, the doctors explain it's a reflex, not a conscious breath.  So no, this guy making a noise 10 minutes later doesn't mean he was acting.

For farks sake people.  Lots of reasons to be pro or anti death penalty.  But stop making shiat up.


The first time I read the story of him gasping for breath so long after the drugs were administered I just assumed it was reflex.  I've seen enough videos on LiveLeak of the exact same type of reflex...  And in some of those videos the majority of the brain of the featured individual was several feet from the body so there was no question that they were quite dead.   But what remained of the body was still running on autopilot and attempting to gasp for breath.

As far as capital punishment goes I don't understand why someone who raped and murdered a pregnant newlywed does not get tossed feet first into a wood chipper minutes after the gavel bangs with a guilty conviction.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-01-28 01:46:00 PM

dittybopper: Oh, I suppose you could put them in permanent isolation at a supermax prison and drive them aslowly insane, but that seems more cruel than simply killing them.


THIS^^^^^

Further reinforcement on why I have you faved. I would rather get offed than be in a 5x5 forever.
 
2014-01-28 01:46:17 PM

cig-mkr: Who cares that he suffered? I'm fairly sure he wasn't concerned about cruel and unusual when he was raping and killing that girl. Think about what horrors the girl was going through during the ordeal. And the bastard lived decades after he killed her. No sympathy for him.



Ideally, there should be something to separate us (acting collectively through the State) from the criminals we punish.  If we are just as bloodthirsty and willing to torture or kill as the people we are punishing, then what is it that separates them from us?  Right from Wrong?  Aside from superior fire-power, that is...

That's probably one of the reasons why the Founding Fathers wrote the "cruel & unusual" punishment prohibition into the Bill of Rights -- along with freedom of speech and the right to bear arms.
 
2014-01-28 01:48:31 PM

Theaetetus: However, you could also do it with a gas chamber and nitrogen. Dude peacefully goes to sleep, dies without twitching within 5 minutes.


That's not necessarily true.  An inert-gas atmosphere would quickly lead to unconsciousness & death, but not necessarily without twitching/spasms/gasping/etc.  Granted, the subject would be unconscious when that happened, but it could still look bad to observers.
 
2014-01-28 01:50:50 PM

CalvinMorallis: It goes to the heart of why we execute criminals in the first place, though.  Capital punishment is supposed to be a deterrent, not punishment for punishment's sake.  Now, granted, I've never been killed, so I can't say this with ABSOLUTE certainty, but dying, period, is all the deterrent I need to never commit a capital offense.


If someone given the death penalty is guilty (as opposed simply to being poor and black) then deterrence has, by definition, failed.
 
2014-01-28 01:55:46 PM

gja: dittybopper: Oh, I suppose you could put them in permanent isolation at a supermax prison and drive them aslowly insane, but that seems more cruel than simply killing them.

THIS^^^^^

Further reinforcement on why I have you faved. I would rather get offed than be in a 5x5 forever.


I've got you faved in green because you're a ham.
 
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