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(Business Insider)   The subplot to Peyton Manning's #1 pass offense vs Seattle's #2 pass defense: Manning alone makes $9.1M more than the entire Seattle secondary   (businessinsider.com) divider line 59
    More: Interesting, Peyton Manning, Seattle, Seahawks, pass defensed  
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413 clicks; posted to Sports » on 27 Jan 2014 at 4:38 PM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-27 03:22:04 PM
FTA:  While they each rank No. 1 in their respective statistical categories, Manning and Seattle's four starting defensive backs couldn't be more different when it comes to compensation.

Genius-level stuff , Subs.
 
2014-01-27 03:43:09 PM
This just in. Established, super bowl winning, record breaking quarterbacks make more than defensive backs just starting their careers.

Next on the nightly news, Fullbacks: Why don't they make as much as hall of fame running backs?
 
2014-01-27 04:31:11 PM

Mangoose: This just in. Established, super bowl winning, record breaking quarterbacks make more than defensive backs just starting their careers.

Next on the nightly news, Fullbacks: Why don't they make as much as hall of fame running backs?


So much this.
 
2014-01-27 04:43:10 PM
So how long is Seattle expected to be able to keep that secondary together if all of those guys outplay their rookie deals?
 
2014-01-27 04:43:33 PM
This shows how absurd the rookie contract rules are.

Yes, it was getting out of control... FOR TOP PICKS. I think some of these guys deserve more immediate financial reward when they're drafted in lower rounds.
 
2014-01-27 04:46:15 PM

Shame Us: FTA:  While they each rank No. 1 in their respective statistical categories, Manning and Seattle's four starting defensive backs couldn't be more different when it comes to compensation.

Genius-level stuff , Subs.

I think they are second in passing TDs allowed, but they are certainly first in pretty much every other defensive category.
 
2014-01-27 04:47:46 PM

puffy999: This shows how absurd the rookie contract rules are.

Yes, it was getting out of control... FOR TOP PICKS. I think some of these guys deserve more immediate financial reward when they're drafted in lower rounds.


How did it work for a 5th round pick 5 years ago?
 
2014-01-27 04:51:27 PM
Seattle is #1 in pass defense - having played the 2nd easiest defensive schedule in the NFL this year.
Denver is #1 in pass offense, having played the 3rd easiest offensive schedule in the NFL this year.

Each took those schedules and did exactly what they should have and then some, but it'll be interesting to see how each unit does in such a big game against such a good opponent.  I'm guessing Seattle's offense (ranked 9th) against Denver's defense (14th) will have a more prevalent hand in the game's outcome.
 
2014-01-27 04:52:37 PM

stappawho: puffy999: This shows how absurd the rookie contract rules are.

Yes, it was getting out of control... FOR TOP PICKS. I think some of these guys deserve more immediate financial reward when they're drafted in lower rounds.

How did it work for a 5th round pick 5 years ago?


Pay was about the same, but generally the players were on 1-2 year deals. Now they are locked into 4 year deals.
 
2014-01-27 04:54:37 PM

Enomai: So how long is Seattle expected to be able to keep that secondary together if all of those guys outplay their rookie deals?


They just extended Kam this year.  Earl Thomas was a #14 pick so he already makes good money.  He'll get a big raise next year.  Sherman can renegotiate next year but I think they'll franchise him in 2014 or let him go.  I don't see the Seahawks paying him 16+ mil a year.  The other guys while good aren't going to be commanding top dollar (Thurmon, Maxwell and Lane).   Plus they drafted a Sherman clone, physically at least, who has been on IR all year.

Anyways, I see the keys to the game being Seahawks pass rush vs Broncos run D.

Wild card being special teams.  Both have great kickers.  Broncos have a guy that can break one but the Seahawks are as good as they come in punt and kick coverage.  Meanwhile, Seahawks have a great punt returner and one of the best kick returners* going against a very piss poor special teams coverage.

*if healthy
 
2014-01-27 04:55:56 PM

Lost Thought 00: stappawho: puffy999: This shows how absurd the rookie contract rules are.

Yes, it was getting out of control... FOR TOP PICKS. I think some of these guys deserve more immediate financial reward when they're drafted in lower rounds.

How did it work for a 5th round pick 5 years ago?

Pay was about the same, but generally the players were on 1-2 year deals. Now they are locked into 4 year deals.


I see.  I think they can renegotiate after 3 though right?  Say Seattle could extend Sherman next year, they don't have to wait till after the season.  But I could be wrong on that.
 
2014-01-27 04:55:57 PM
Peyton is worth it. That is all.
 
2014-01-27 04:56:21 PM
Subplot to your subplot

img.fark.net
 
2014-01-27 05:00:08 PM

stappawho: Lost Thought 00: stappawho: puffy999: This shows how absurd the rookie contract rules are.

Yes, it was getting out of control... FOR TOP PICKS. I think some of these guys deserve more immediate financial reward when they're drafted in lower rounds.

How did it work for a 5th round pick 5 years ago?

Pay was about the same, but generally the players were on 1-2 year deals. Now they are locked into 4 year deals.

I see.  I think they can renegotiate after 3 though right?  Say Seattle could extend Sherman next year, they don't have to wait till after the season.  But I could be wrong on that.


The 4th year is a team option, so the team has the choice of either letting them go, negotiating an extension, or playing the 4th year under the rookie deal and letting them hit the market as a full Free Agent. Player's only control is they could reject a extension in favor of hitting the open market, though that's quite rare (need a very talented rookie who really doesn't want to continue playing for that team). Team and player are not allowed to negotiate an extension until after year 3.
 
2014-01-27 05:01:25 PM
I'll note that undrafted free agents are not bound by those rules, so in some sense it is better to go undrafted than to be picked in the 6th or 7th round
 
2014-01-27 05:01:30 PM

stappawho: Enomai: So how long is Seattle expected to be able to keep that secondary together if all of those guys outplay their rookie deals?

They just extended Kam this year.  Earl Thomas was a #14 pick so he already makes good money.  He'll get a big raise next year.  Sherman can renegotiate next year but I think they'll franchise him in 2014 or let him go.  I don't see the Seahawks paying him 16+ mil a year.  The other guys while good aren't going to be commanding top dollar (Thurmon, Maxwell and Lane).   Plus they drafted a Sherman clone, physically at least, who has been on IR all year.

Anyways, I see the keys to the game being Seahawks pass rush vs Broncos run D.

Wild card being special teams.  Both have great kickers.  Broncos have a guy that can break one but the Seahawks are as good as they come in punt and kick coverage.  Meanwhile, Seahawks have a great punt returner and one of the best kick returners* going against a very piss poor special teams coverage.

*if healthy



Seahawks will, for the most part, stay intact next year.  It's the year after that some tough decisions that will need to be made.

Sherman isn't a FA until 2015, he's being paid ~$1.3m next year.

Broncos have an excellent KR guy*

*if he doesn't drop the ball
 
2014-01-27 05:01:57 PM
Wait one farking second - are you telling me the first ballot hall of famer record-setting multiple time MVP QB at the end of his career makes more than a bunch of DB's on their rookie deals? Well knock me over with a feather. Good find there sherlock submitter.
 
2014-01-27 05:05:03 PM
We're running out of Super Bowl storylines already and it's only Monday.  Someone needs to punch a stripper in the vagina, ASAP.
 
2014-01-27 05:06:19 PM

irgunner: Subplot to your subplot

[img.fark.net image 581x755]


img.fark.net
 
2014-01-27 05:08:30 PM

Yanks_RSJ: We're running out of Super Bowl storylines already and it's only Monday.  Someone needs to punch a stripper in the vagina, ASAP.


Like you mean a player, right?
 
2014-01-27 05:12:43 PM

JohnBigBootay: Yanks_RSJ: We're running out of Super Bowl storylines already and it's only Monday.  Someone needs to punch a stripper in the vagina, ASAP.

Like you mean a player, right?


Well if I did it probably wouldn't "move the needle" much over at Radio Row.  If by some miracle Richard Sherman did it, heads would explode.
 
2014-01-27 05:15:45 PM

JohnBigBootay: Yanks_RSJ: We're running out of Super Bowl storylines already and it's only Monday.  Someone needs to punch a stripper in the vagina, ASAP.

Like you mean a player, right?


Wait...there's a player in the Superbowl who's a stripper, too?  And he needs to be punched in the vagina, ASAP?  Dammit, Decker.  I knew it!
 
2014-01-27 05:17:48 PM
Oh sure, this wealth inequality has nothing to do with the color of skin. Not this time, right?
 
2014-01-27 05:18:51 PM
Kind of disappointing that anything interesting about this topic has been exhausted in fewer than 20 posts.
 
2014-01-27 05:27:31 PM

irgunner: Subplot to your subplot

[img.fark.net image 581x755]


Umm...Wilson's dad is a lawyer, not a football player.
 
2014-01-27 05:30:11 PM

Terlis: irgunner: Subplot to your subplot

[img.fark.net image 581x755]

Umm...Wilson's dad is a lawyer, not a football player.


He played in the preseason one year for the Chargers.
 
2014-01-27 05:45:52 PM
They haven't had a chance to test free agency, and are playing some of the best football in the league while waiting out their rookie salaries.

Not true of Chancellor, who signed an extension. Which is why he is the most highly compensated of the bunch despite having been drafted four rounds after Earl Thomas.
 
2014-01-27 05:51:28 PM
Man alive...can't take any more articles about the 2 teams.  The media seriously runs out of angles, side stories etc...

Can we please get back to a 1 week wait for the SB?

gohawks
 
2014-01-27 05:56:59 PM

stappawho: Enomai: So how long is Seattle expected to be able to keep that secondary together if all of those guys outplay their rookie deals?

They just extended Kam this year.  Earl Thomas was a #14 pick so he already makes good money.  He'll get a big raise next year.  Sherman can renegotiate next year but I think they'll franchise him in 2014 or let him go.  I don't see the Seahawks paying him 16+ mil a year.  The other guys while good aren't going to be commanding top dollar (Thurmon, Maxwell and Lane).   Plus they drafted a Sherman clone, physically at least, who has been on IR all year.


I would not be shocked if the Seahawks traded Sherman this offseason. His trade value is absolutely through the roof -- like a high first-round pick and some additional picks. Then the team could sign Thurmond to a more sensible deal and let Thurmond/Maxwell be an above-average CB tandem, with solid depth in Shead and Simon. The money they don't have to commit to a Sherman extension would be used to retain an extra defensive lineman or two.

Otherwise, the best hope is to structure everyone's contract to defer the cap hit as much as possible, leaving the Super Bowl window open for the next several years but embracing the inevitability of Salary Cap Hell at some point in the future, four, five or six years down the road.
 
2014-01-27 06:05:25 PM

Super Chronic: I would not be shocked if the Seahawks traded Sherman this offseason. His trade value is absolutely through the roof -- like a high first-round pick and some additional picks. Then the team could sign Thurmond to a more sensible deal and let Thurmond/Maxwell be an above-average CB tandem, with solid depth in Shead and Simon. The money they don't have to commit to a Sherman extension would be used to retain an extra defensive lineman or two.

Otherwise, the best hope is to structure everyone's contract to defer the cap hit as much as possible, leaving the Super Bowl window open for the next several years but embracing the inevitability of Salary Cap Hell at some point in the future, four, five or six years down the road.


They need to learn from their past, recognize how they got here and not overcommit to one player. This should be known as the Shaun Alexander strategem. I firmly believe they have gone to another SB before now had they not thrown the bank at that jackass.

Oh, for a good time - go look up Shaun's "foundation" some time. Unless I'm mistaken they never disbursed one thin dime.
 
2014-01-27 06:08:34 PM

Super Chronic: I would not be shocked if the Seahawks traded Sherman this offseason. His trade value is absolutely through the roof -- like a high first-round pick and some additional picks. Then the team could sign Thurmond to a more sensible deal and let Thurmond/Maxwell be an above-average CB tandem, with solid depth in Shead and Simon. The money they don't have to commit to a Sherman extension would be used to retain an extra defensive lineman or two.


I would be.

Of the Seahawks, the valuable ones are Wilson, Sherman, and Thomas. Everyone else is replaceable.

Rice and Miller, two of the more expensive Seahawks, will be gone or much cheaper. Lynch will be about ready to go by the time they're getting paid (and they already have his replacement). Harvin's guaranteed money is gone at the end of next year. Clemons is getting long in the tooth and he'll probably be gone by then. That's 4 of the top 5 base salaries on the team likely to be gone soon.
 
2014-01-27 06:11:36 PM

Terlis: irgunner: Subplot to your subplot

[img.fark.net image 581x755]

Umm...Wilson's dad is a lawyer, not a football player dead.


/ftfy
 
2014-01-27 06:14:04 PM

Super Chronic: I would not be shocked if the Seahawks traded Sherman this offseason. His trade value is absolutely through the roof -- like a high first-round pick and some additional picks.


Why would the Seahawks want to pay three or four times as much money to someone who won't be as good?
 
2014-01-27 06:23:27 PM

IAmRight: Super Chronic: I would not be shocked if the Seahawks traded Sherman this offseason. His trade value is absolutely through the roof -- like a high first-round pick and some additional picks. Then the team could sign Thurmond to a more sensible deal and let Thurmond/Maxwell be an above-average CB tandem, with solid depth in Shead and Simon. The money they don't have to commit to a Sherman extension would be used to retain an extra defensive lineman or two.

I would be.

Of the Seahawks, the valuable ones are Wilson, Sherman, and Thomas. Everyone else is replaceable.

Rice and Miller, two of the more expensive Seahawks, will be gone or much cheaper. Lynch will be about ready to go by the time they're getting paid (and they already have his replacement). Harvin's guaranteed money is gone at the end of next year. Clemons is getting long in the tooth and he'll probably be gone by then. That's 4 of the top 5 base salaries on the team likely to be gone soon.


But Rice and Miller, by themselves, aren't making up the difference. (And frankly, Miller is very important to the team -- it would be a significant hit if they let him go. Luke Willson was a nice find in the last draft, but he shouldn't be the only tight end on the roster.) If they were to try to extend Sherman and Thomas this year, they'd have to let both Rice and Miller go, and Clemons, and forget about bringing Bennett back (he ain't doing another one-year, $5 million deal). If they wait a year on Sherman, then they can save the cap room for another year, but they'll still have to either franchise him or let him test the waters after that.

I'm not saying it's likely. It's a scenario I've concocted in my head. But Carroll and Schneider do active-player trades better than any other front office in the NFL, and are crazy enough to pull something like this off. And don't forget about what they could do with that bevy of draft picks Sherman would fetch in return -- several more players coming in on those delicious rookie contracts for another four years.

(For a trading partner, ideally it would be an AFC team that drafts high in the first round, has a bad passing defense, desperately wants to make a splash and has a history of paying exorbitantly for shiny toys. Hey, Oakland, how you doin'?)
 
2014-01-27 06:24:33 PM

puffy999: Super Chronic: I would not be shocked if the Seahawks traded Sherman this offseason. His trade value is absolutely through the roof -- like a high first-round pick and some additional picks.

Why would the Seahawks want to pay three or four times as much money to someone who won't be as good?


Because Sherman has one more year on his deal, and after that, "three or four times as much money" becomes "one-fifth or one-sixth as much money."
 
2014-01-27 06:24:40 PM
I'm really hoping Leon (fark you, weather channel) can hang around to really screw with this Superb Owl.  I'm not talking about having to bring a snowplow on the field. I'm talking about icing conditions so bad they'll need to salt and sand the field.
 
2014-01-27 06:29:13 PM

Yanks_RSJ: We're running out of Super Bowl storylines already and it's only Monday.  Someone needs to punch a stripper in the vagina, ASAP.


I can't funny a post on mobile, but someone needs to do it for me.

Well done.
 
2014-01-27 06:36:33 PM

Super Chronic: (And frankly, Miller is very important to the team -- it would be a significant hit if they let him go. Luke Willson was a nice find in the last draft, but he shouldn't be the only tight end on the roster.)


They also have McCoy, who has been on IR all year but is solid.

/I like Miller, but he's paid nearly $7 million and his cap hit was $11 million this year. That's WAY too much.
 
2014-01-27 06:48:18 PM

IAmRight: Super Chronic: (And frankly, Miller is very important to the team -- it would be a significant hit if they let him go. Luke Willson was a nice find in the last draft, but he shouldn't be the only tight end on the roster.)

They also have McCoy, who has been on IR all year but is solid.

/I like Miller, but he's paid nearly $7 million and his cap hit was $11 million this year. That's WAY too much.


McCoy is also a free agent. Maybe a relatively cheap one since he's been hurt, but he also hasn't produced at Miller's level.

There is, of course, the draft, and this appears to be a good year for tight ends at the end of the first round (I'm sure the fans would love ASJ; Eric Ebron or Jace Amaro could also be there).

All I'm saying is, maximize bang for the buck. After 2014, Sherman will be looking for a Revis-type deal. The team will spend the money; $15 million not spent on Player A will be $15 million available for Players B, C and D. And as much as I'd like to see Sherman join the ranks of HOFers who played their whole careers as Seahawks, I'd prefer for the team to be unsentimental.
 
2014-01-27 07:02:12 PM

Super Chronic: IAmRight: Super Chronic: (And frankly, Miller is very important to the team -- it would be a significant hit if they let him go. Luke Willson was a nice find in the last draft, but he shouldn't be the only tight end on the roster.)

They also have McCoy, who has been on IR all year but is solid.

/I like Miller, but he's paid nearly $7 million and his cap hit was $11 million this year. That's WAY too much.

McCoy is also a free agent. Maybe a relatively cheap one since he's been hurt, but he also hasn't produced at Miller's level.

There is, of course, the draft, and this appears to be a good year for tight ends at the end of the first round (I'm sure the fans would love ASJ; Eric Ebron or Jace Amaro could also be there).

All I'm saying is, maximize bang for the buck. After 2014, Sherman will be looking for a Revis-type deal. The team will spend the money; $15 million not spent on Player A will be $15 million available for Players B, C and D. And as much as I'd like to see Sherman join the ranks of HOFers who played their whole careers as Seahawks, I'd prefer for the team to be unsentimental.


I think the UW tight end, Sefarian-Jenkins, would be a good replacement for Miller.  I'd love Miller at 2 to 3 mil per year, but his contract is ridiculous right now.
 
2014-01-27 07:06:09 PM

Super Chronic: After 2014, Sherman will be looking for a Revis-type deal.


Maybe.

/not sure he's going to want a "no guaranteed money" deal, though
//we'll see...just think that the three most useful players to the Seahawks both on and off the field are those three...and there's more to be considered about a player than just their stats
 
2014-01-27 07:11:38 PM

Argyle82: Super Chronic: IAmRight: Super Chronic: (And frankly, Miller is very important to the team -- it would be a significant hit if they let him go. Luke Willson was a nice find in the last draft, but he shouldn't be the only tight end on the roster.)

They also have McCoy, who has been on IR all year but is solid.

/I like Miller, but he's paid nearly $7 million and his cap hit was $11 million this year. That's WAY too much.

McCoy is also a free agent. Maybe a relatively cheap one since he's been hurt, but he also hasn't produced at Miller's level.

There is, of course, the draft, and this appears to be a good year for tight ends at the end of the first round (I'm sure the fans would love ASJ; Eric Ebron or Jace Amaro could also be there).

All I'm saying is, maximize bang for the buck. After 2014, Sherman will be looking for a Revis-type deal. The team will spend the money; $15 million not spent on Player A will be $15 million available for Players B, C and D. And as much as I'd like to see Sherman join the ranks of HOFers who played their whole careers as Seahawks, I'd prefer for the team to be unsentimental.

I think the UW tight end, Sefarian-Jenkins, would be a good replacement for Miller.  I'd love Miller at 2 to 3 mil per year, but his contract is ridiculous right now.


I think they can afford Miller for another season. I expect that Clemons and Rice will be gone or restructured heavily. The cap "crisis" doesn't REALLY hit until after next season when Sherman and Wilson come up for new deals.

Clearing Clemons and Rice off the books would give you at lest $15mil in cap space for two guys who are being paid far more than they're worth at the moment. If I had to put money on it, I'd say Miller will be in Seattle next year.
 
2014-01-27 07:11:45 PM
Fun fact: the NFC West went a combined 13-3 against the AFC. Make of that what you will.
 
2014-01-27 07:12:51 PM

IAmRight: Super Chronic: After 2014, Sherman will be looking for a Revis-type deal.

Maybe.

/not sure he's going to want a "no guaranteed money" deal, though
//we'll see...just think that the three most useful players to the Seahawks both on and off the field are those three...and there's more to be considered about a player than just their stats


Sherman and Thomas set the tone for the defense emotionally. They're the glue. That's worth a lot to a unit that plays this well together.
 
2014-01-27 07:28:31 PM

Shame Us: Sherman and Thomas set the tone for the defense emotionally. They're the glue. That's worth a lot to a unit that plays this well together.


That's why IMO they're the ones that have to stay on that side of the ball. Don't want to imagine either of them leaving in a year.

BMulligan: Fun fact: the NFC West went a combined 13-3 against the AFC. Make of that what you will.


Eh, this is a silly stat I've seen people saying - they only played AFC South teams and those teams sucked.

/Indy's f*cking weird for beating San Francisco and Seattle and then losing to Arizona and St. Louis
 
2014-01-27 07:30:21 PM

IAmRight: /Indy's f*cking weird for beating San Francisco and Seattle and then losing to Arizona and St. Louis


Not to mention beating Denver and losing to Miami - both at home, IIRC.
 
2014-01-27 09:18:04 PM

BMulligan: Fun fact: the NFC West went a combined 13-3 against the AFC. Make of that what you will.


Heh, they were a combined 13-3 against the AFC South, so it doesn't mean much. West v. West 0-0.
 
2014-01-27 09:25:21 PM

IAmRight: /Indy's f*cking weird for beating San Francisco and Seattle and then losing to Arizona and St. Louis


Losing to Arizona isn't so weird.
 
2014-01-27 10:07:22 PM

Super Chronic: IAmRight: /Indy's f*cking weird for beating San Francisco and Seattle and then losing to Arizona and St. Louis

Losing to Arizona isn't so weird.


It's the losing the bottom 2, beating the top 2 thing. Hell, St. Louis probably makes the playoffs in the AFC.
 
2014-01-27 11:00:31 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: BMulligan: Fun fact: the NFC West went a combined 13-3 against the AFC. Make of that what you will.

Heh, they were a combined 13-3 against the AFC South, so it doesn't mean much. West v. West 0-0.


Well, that's true, but I still think the weight of the evidence suggests that the NFC West was by far the toughest division in the league this year. It amazes me that three teams in the division were able to rack up double digit win totals despite the fact that each of them had to face the others twice. That tells me that, collectively, they pretty much beat up on the rest of the league this season.
 
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