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(Washington Post)   According to new poll Americans believe both sides are not equally bad   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 62
    More: Obvious, Americans, GOP, Brian Beutler, Democratic Party, Pew Research  
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4378 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Jan 2014 at 2:37 PM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-01-27 03:00:59 PM  
8 votes:
It's amazing (and quite sad) that a slim majority of people still believe the GOP would better get the economy on track.

We got into this damn mess because of their 1%er fellating BS, and their steadfast refusal to allow Obama and the Democrats to pass any meaningful job and relief bills is what's keeping us in it.

Trickle down is a lie. You can't stimulate the economy with austerity. Stop believing the 'fiscal conservative' lies, they're just as bad as the racist, sexist, homophobic, intolerant crap that the party spews.
2014-01-27 03:13:31 PM  
5 votes:
Democrats are  bad in many ways. Corrupt and incompetent in a lot of places.

But Republicans/Conservatives are actively trying to drag this country down to their level. A level of anti-science, pro-bigot and anti-common sense hypocrisy that the world is not even truly aware of. Much less how dangerous it is.

What really bothers me is that they are doing it all on their own. They want it. There is no direct outside influence for this like you see in the Ukraine right now where the government is obviously pressured/supported by Russia. And it's occurring in many Western nations. This strain of politics based purely on hatred and manufactured controversy. Canada, Australia, the UK and so on.


Think Taliban. But educated(not smart, educated), incredibly wealthy and with the vast bulk of the world's military power within their sphere of influence. This is reality.
2014-01-27 04:16:17 PM  
4 votes:

physt: Eddie Adams from Torrance: ...and 48% will continue to vote Republican.

There is no cure for stupid.


It's called education. That is why defunding schools is a top Republican priority.
2014-01-27 03:22:45 PM  
4 votes:

Dr Dreidel: Satan's Bunny Slippers: So. Much. This. I've never ever understood the "straight party voter" either. I disagree with Dems on things to a varying degree, but I disagree with Repubs on pretty much every damn thing that's come out of their mouths for the last 12 years or so.

If we voted on issues rather than candidates, I suspect most people would fall close to "the middle". Because we vote on candidates, and many of them (even in Congressional races) are unknowns, we use the party's politics as a proxy for the candidate's beliefs.

Perhaps if more Republicans were willing to publicly repudiate the "Two dollars bad; four (billion) dollars good!" and "Only white is alright" planks from the platform - or call out the behavior when they see it - we would stop associating them with their fringe element. It becomes harder to do that when the Democratic version of "the fringe" is someone who wants to make firearms harder to buy and thinks taxes on the highest incomes could stand to be around 60%.


Indeed.  I'm very much issue oriented and tried to stay abreast of candidates' views on things that were important to me but as recently as 16 years ago, I could probably be swayed to vote for someone I was not familiar with by checking out which party they were with. I'm much more likely to do so today.  If anything, the last 6 years have turned me into a much more informed voter. I don't want to necessarily knee jerk into "you're a republican so fark you NO", but that's kind of where I am right now.  I voted 99.9% Democrat the past 3 elections, although that's not my registry, because I AM at the point of "you're republican? well fark you, your party, the horses you rode in on, and your mom twice".

I'm truly that disgusted by the "politics" of them right now.
2014-01-27 04:09:16 PM  
3 votes:

Lord Dimwit: I have yet to hear a non-partisan reason as to why a single city needed to be split into three different Congressional districts. San Antonio was also split, as was Houston and Forth Worth.


upload.wikimedia.org
2014-01-27 03:27:09 PM  
3 votes:
Doesn't matter. The GOP has gerrymandered districts all to hell so that they don't need anything close to a majority of the population to at least keep the House.

Lord Dimwit: But the GOP will always have wedge issues. I know plenty of people who disagree with 99% of the GOP's platform, but vote Republican anyway because of (a) same-sex marriage, (b) abortion, (c) evolution in schools, (d) something something "Christians are oppressed" something.

I'm not saying they're wrong to do so


Then I will. They are wrong. Trying to force their religious based "values" on the entire country is wrong. Voting against the economic interests of themselves and most of the rest of the nation's population because they're so keen to force these religious values on everyone is wrong.

They're ignorant and wrong. Fark 'em.
2014-01-27 03:18:59 PM  
3 votes:

Eddie Adams from Torrance: ...and 48% will continue to vote Republican.


It's only a matter of time, though.  They've lost the youth and people don't magically turn into bigots and xenophobes and religious lunatics just because they pass that magical boundary from 'young' into 'mature.'

It's only a matter of time before the old scared white voter base that the GOP relies upon dies out completely.
2014-01-27 03:18:42 PM  
3 votes:
My husband's charming father engaged us all in an endless tirade about how "compromise" on ANY issue was akin to the compromise about slavery that led to the Civil War, or some such utterly convoluted nonsense. He not only doesn't recognize obstructionism, but applauds it. SLAVERY! Guess which channel is on at his house 24/7.

But then you have people like his wife or my mother, who are lifelong Republicans in their 70s who still think that voting Republican is voting for the party as it existed in Eisenhower's day. They will say that they're fed up with obstructionism. They even go so far as to declare specific members of the Republican party as whackadoodle troublemakers, but they just can't get past the idea that the party as a whole is the party of their youth, despite all evidence to the contrary. They're a big reason why a poll like this can exist and Republicans can still hold a majority in the House.

The younger people in our family who vote Republican are either wealthy and want taxes as low as possible so they can buy yet more expensive toys, or are poor but rabid fundamentalist Christians issue-voting about abortion.  Again, they may honestly believe their party is largely responsible for the government meltdown, but they won't vote against the one party that supports their personal interests.

YMMV, but that sums up the Republican Party in our neck of the woods and, I'm sad to say, the irrelevancy of a poll like this.
2014-01-27 03:18:32 PM  
3 votes:
When I hear republicans speak I think "Good god, that is dumb and/or corrupt." When I hear democrats speak I think "I voted for this?"

So yeah there is a difference.
2014-01-27 03:15:37 PM  
3 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: It's amazing (and quite sad) that a slim majority of people still believe the GOP would better get the economy on track.

We got into this damn mess because of their 1%er fellating BS, and their steadfast refusal to allow Obama and the Democrats to pass any meaningful job and relief bills is what's keeping us in it.

Trickle down is a lie. You can't stimulate the economy with austerity. Stop believing the 'fiscal conservative' lies, they're just as bad as the racist, sexist, homophobic, intolerant crap that the party spews.


Military spending over infrastructure spending is the GOP way. Remember when Obama wanted to fire up the "shovel ready projects" to get some jobs on the ground here and that became a GOP punchline.
2014-01-27 03:12:26 PM  
3 votes:

Satan's Bunny Slippers: So. Much. This. I've never ever understood the "straight party voter" either. I disagree with Dems on things to a varying degree, but I disagree with Repubs on pretty much every damn thing that's come out of their mouths for the last 12 years or so.


If we voted on issues rather than candidates, I suspect most people would fall close to "the middle". Because we vote on candidates, and many of them (even in Congressional races) are unknowns, we use the party's politics as a proxy for the candidate's beliefs.

Perhaps if more Republicans were willing to publicly repudiate the "Two dollars bad; four (billion) dollars good!" and "Only white is alright" planks from the platform - or call out the behavior when they see it - we would stop associating them with their fringe element. It becomes harder to do that when the Democratic version of "the fringe" is someone who wants to make firearms harder to buy and thinks taxes on the highest incomes could stand to be around 60%.
2014-01-27 07:08:36 PM  
2 votes:

Infernalist: Musikslayer: Infernalist: It's only a matter of time, though.  They've lost the youth and people don't magically turn into bigots and xenophobes and religious lunatics just because they pass that magical boundary from 'young' into 'mature.'

You'd be surprised about that one. I'm 49, I've seen quite a few people make the change, especially since FB came along and I'm hearing from people I knew 30 years ago. It's like watching a sci-fi Body Snatchers movie, I'll see someone from the past and say "Oh noes, they got Joe too!" Examples from my high school, via FB:

One woman is all "drug-test those welfare bums". I used to smoke weed with her all the time, and she sold it too.
One guy was super bright but cool, I think he graduated 2 years early. He's a surgeon who posts crazy stuff from WND and worse.
One woman is "Family values" right wing Jebus. I slept with her, and I wasn't that popular, I think we all did at some point.
2 of the guys that were badboys/drugs are cops. One of them is in prison for brutality to prisoners, he was Mr. Laid back stoner in the day. The other was body-snatched, I ran into him as an adult. He's literally a different personality, they stuck a badge on him and he went from Cheech and Chong to that Sgt. in "Full Metal Jacket" overnite.

People change.

I don't doubt that 'some' young folk will go stupid when they get older, but they won't be a majority.


Well, a good amount are stupid to begin with.

I'll never underestimate the far right. Ted Cruz can look right at a camera and say "I voted against the democratic shutdown" without flinching, Palin can talk about a bridge she was against that she tried to get. Texas is re-writing textbooks for this reason, it's their version of going back in time to kill Sarah Connor. North Carolina is doing its best to wage war against teachers to create a generation of dumbasses.
2014-01-27 06:09:03 PM  
2 votes:

Musikslayer: Infernalist: It's only a matter of time, though.  They've lost the youth and people don't magically turn into bigots and xenophobes and religious lunatics just because they pass that magical boundary from 'young' into 'mature.'

You'd be surprised about that one. I'm 49, I've seen quite a few people make the change, especially since FB came along and I'm hearing from people I knew 30 years ago. It's like watching a sci-fi Body Snatchers movie, I'll see someone from the past and say "Oh noes, they got Joe too!" Examples from my high school, via FB:

One woman is all "drug-test those welfare bums". I used to smoke weed with her all the time, and she sold it too.
One guy was super bright but cool, I think he graduated 2 years early. He's a surgeon who posts crazy stuff from WND and worse.
One woman is "Family values" right wing Jebus. I slept with her, and I wasn't that popular, I think we all did at some point.
2 of the guys that were badboys/drugs are cops. One of them is in prison for brutality to prisoners, he was Mr. Laid back stoner in the day. The other was body-snatched, I ran into him as an adult. He's literally a different personality, they stuck a badge on him and he went from Cheech and Chong to that Sgt. in "Full Metal Jacket" overnite.

People change.



I'm 35 and have seen the same thing happen..... to some extent. I am amazed that the "Baby Boomers" went from believing in hippy "Free-love" "share-the-world" things, to the "vulture-capitalism" beliefs that they have come to epitomize. I'm "gen-X" and my generation used to believe in living in a "non-consumerism" society that could support everyone..... and now they believe in getting cheap deals from slave labor by shopping at Walmart.


/People changing sucks. Our youth are more motivated to be planning for the future of our society..... and they've been getting it right for years.
2014-01-27 05:50:18 PM  
2 votes:

Infernalist: It's only a matter of time, though.  They've lost the youth and people don't magically turn into bigots and xenophobes and religious lunatics just because they pass that magical boundary from 'young' into 'mature.'


You'd be surprised about that one. I'm 49, I've seen quite a few people make the change, especially since FB came along and I'm hearing from people I knew 30 years ago. It's like watching a sci-fi Body Snatchers movie, I'll see someone from the past and say "Oh noes, they got Joe too!" Examples from my high school, via FB:

One woman is all "drug-test those welfare bums". I used to smoke weed with her all the time, and she sold it too.
One guy was super bright but cool, I think he graduated 2 years early. He's a surgeon who posts crazy stuff from WND and worse.
One woman is "Family values" right wing Jebus. I slept with her, and I wasn't that popular, I think we all did at some point.
2 of the guys that were badboys/drugs are cops. One of them is in prison for brutality to prisoners, he was Mr. Laid back stoner in the day. The other was body-snatched, I ran into him as an adult. He's literally a different personality, they stuck a badge on him and he went from Cheech and Chong to that Sgt. in "Full Metal Jacket" overnite.

People change.
2014-01-27 05:42:35 PM  
2 votes:
Liberal economic policy is better for businesses.

This is easy to debate in a long form argument.... but it is hard to state in a 30 second commercial, or a 2 minute broadcast news interview......

If we can figure out how to distill our economic policies into a conversation short enough for most Americans to pay attention to, it can/will be the killing blow for the GOP.

/As things are, it's sick that they are still more trusted with the economy.
2014-01-27 05:04:21 PM  
2 votes:
Gerrymandering seems to be the linchpin for the GOP now. The next time the Democrats get a turn at drawing the lines, the wheels come off. And good riddance.

/unless of course the Democrats try to play fair rather than going for the kill
2014-01-27 04:19:16 PM  
2 votes:

Brian_of_Nazareth: Infernalist: Eddie Adams from Torrance: ...and 48% will continue to vote Republican.

It's only a matter of time, though.  They've lost the youth and people don't magically turn into bigots and xenophobes and religious lunatics just because they pass that magical boundary from 'young' into 'mature.'

It's only a matter of time before the old scared white voter base that the GOP relies upon dies out completely.

I hope you're correct, but I recall reading a couple studies that suggest people do become more conservative as they get older.  If you're interested, I'll see if I can scare up references.

I suspect it's related to the "Janis Joplin" effect.  The more you have (money and power, mostly) the more conservative you will tend to be in defence of that.

Cheers

//Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose


Don't be too scared...it's a different conservative now.  I'm one of those "conservatives who grew more conservative as I got older" and I'm still a firmly entrenched centrist/right leaning Dem/oh hell naw GOP.

And I'm a registered republican.  (see posts above for reference)

You can become [more] conservative and avoid batshiat insane.  :)
2014-01-27 04:10:12 PM  
2 votes:

Aidan: Satan's Bunny Slippers: I don't want to necessarily knee jerk into "you're a republican so fark you NO", but that's kind of where I am right now. I voted 99.9% Democrat the past 3 elections, although that's not my registry, because I AM at the point of "you're republican? well fark you, your party, the horses you rode in on, and your mom twice".

And that's precisely where my husband is, too.


That's where I am.  The Democrats aren't perfect, but they're not trying to actively fark over minorities, women, gays, immigrants, and poor people.  I mean good lord.  It's too bad, really, because I really want the sane people in that party around to represent viewpoints that I am just not calibrated to worry about.  For instance, I am 0% concerned for the well-being of large companies.  They're rich, if I had my way we would be taxing the motherloving hell out of them instead of nickel-and-diming poor people.  At the same time, I'm sure there are legitimate reasons to not do that and people representing those interests should be able to come to the floor so that we can come to a solution that balances each side's needs and concerns in a rational way.  The GOP is theoretically that differing viewpoint, but right now they don't have positions, they have emotions - and that emotion is usually frothy, rabid rage.
2014-01-27 03:59:39 PM  
2 votes:

whidbey: both sides are not equally bad

Fark Independents™ and other Devil's Advocate Concern Trolls exempted by Curtis Fiat.


I still hate that term... "Fark Independents"... Republicans who fled the party like rats on a sinking ship due to Bush's horrific policies and reputation aren't independents and never were independents. Republican refugees would have been a better description for them and wouldn't have sullied the term 'independent" for people like myself who have been an independent their whole life.

That being said... The Republican party isn't even worth salvaging anymore. I'd rather they just went away and were replaced by a political party that wants to help and improve the lives of Americans in general. Unfortunately... as long as they keep pandering to racists, bigots, and the religious extremists, they'll have just enough votes to keep digging away at everything that is good about this country.
2014-01-27 03:59:36 PM  
2 votes:
qorkfiend:

Sure. I'm just saying you shouldn't feel bad about knee-jerkiness.

Ah, I misread you, sorry.
2014-01-27 03:21:40 PM  
2 votes:

Lord Dimwit: Oakenshield: Doesn't matter. Gerrymander well enough, and voila. Charles Manson is your state representative.

Congressional districts, in theory, are supposed to be drawn such that people concerned with local issues can speak with a common voice and be represented. My district used to be more-or-less my city plus its suburbs (Austin). Because we kept voting for a Democrat, the state legislature split the city into three different districts. My district now encompasses part of the city, and then proceeds to extend all the way to the outskirts of Houston (but doesn't actually touch Houston because they tend to vote Democratic as well).

Here's what I'm talking about:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 800x445]

I have yet to hear a non-partisan reason as to why a single city needed to be split into three different Congressional districts. San Antonio was also split, as was Houston and Forth Worth.


A map has never pissed me off so much before, thanks for that.
2014-01-27 03:14:53 PM  
2 votes:

Oakenshield: Doesn't matter. Gerrymander well enough, and voila. Charles Manson is your state representative.


Congressional districts, in theory, are supposed to be drawn such that people concerned with local issues can speak with a common voice and be represented. My district used to be more-or-less my city plus its suburbs (Austin). Because we kept voting for a Democrat, the state legislature split the city into three different districts. My district now encompasses part of the city, and then proceeds to extend all the way to the outskirts of Houston (but doesn't actually touch Houston because they tend to vote Democratic as well).

Here's what I'm talking about:

upload.wikimedia.org

I have yet to hear a non-partisan reason as to why a single city needed to be split into three different Congressional districts. San Antonio was also split, as was Houston and Forth Worth.
2014-01-27 03:09:32 PM  
2 votes:

Oakenshield: Doesn't matter. Gerrymander well enough, and voila. Charles Manson is your state representative.


Still better than Louie Gohmert
2014-01-27 03:06:38 PM  
2 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: It's amazing (and quite sad) that a slim majority of people still believe the GOP would better get the economy on track.

We got into this damn mess because of their 1%er fellating BS, and their steadfast refusal to allow Obama and the Democrats to pass any meaningful job and relief bills is what's keeping us in it.

Trickle down is a lie. You can't stimulate the economy with austerity. Stop believing the 'fiscal conservative' lies, they're just as bad as the racist, sexist, homophobic, intolerant crap that the party spews.


Considering that nearly 100% of the media is in the pocket of the 1%, it's amazing that a majority have seen through the BSABSVR bullshiat and correctly blame the GOP for the mess we're in.
2014-01-27 03:06:14 PM  
2 votes:
Thanks for the correction everyone.  Yeah, republicans are more influenced by lobbyists.  My mistake.
2014-01-27 02:50:50 PM  
2 votes:

HMS_Blinkin: ikanreed: denying that is denying objective reality.

If denying objective reality were an Olympic sport, America would win every medal, at every Olympics (except maybe '36, where the UK's Neville Chamberlain snuck in a surprise upset).


One could argue that appeasement in 1938 was a full-on recognition of the objective reality that the United Kingdom and France weren't ready for an all-out mechanized war with Nazi Germany and that they had to buy as much time as they could to mobilize their own militaries.
2014-01-27 02:49:58 PM  
2 votes:
the GOP 3 point plan to address jobs, the economy and get America back on track again;

1.  ban same-sex marriage
2.  ban abortion
3.  repeal Obamacare
4.  anti voter-fraud legislation


these 5 main principles will ensure America remains #1 both economically & militarily for years to come or until Jesus returns upon his velocipede & smites the poor and/or brown people of earth.


/VOTE GOP!
2014-01-27 02:48:04 PM  
2 votes:
The Democrats aren't perfect, but the Republicans are much closer to "Satan's asshole".
2014-01-27 02:41:58 PM  
2 votes:
But the GOP will always have wedge issues. I know plenty of people who disagree with 99% of the GOP's platform, but vote Republican anyway because of (a) same-sex marriage, (b) abortion, (c) evolution in schools, (d) something something "Christians are oppressed" something.

I'm not saying they're wrong to do so - if abortion and/or same-sex marriage is 100 times more important than the other issues put together, then that's a reasonable vote. I personally think it's pretty damn stupid, but that's how it goes. Wedge issues are powerful for precisely that reason.
2014-01-27 02:41:40 PM  
2 votes:
I'm a democratic voter, but only 30% of the country says democrats are influenced by lobbyists and special interests?

70% of Americans are utter morons.  More if any of the 48% that don't see republicans as being influenced by lobbyists aren't in that 70%.

Lobbyists are a poison with measurable influence, and denying that is denying objective reality.
2014-01-27 09:12:54 PM  
1 votes:

BMFPitt: Both sides are differently bad.


Overcooked chicken and the holocaust are both bad.
2014-01-27 08:40:20 PM  
1 votes:

Lamberts Ho Man: The gerymandering thing is interesting - GOP has used it to very successfully control state legislatures, and thereby the house in turn.  But those safe districts are now so safe and isolated from challenge that their elections have gone full retard.  This, in turn, gives us all those fantastic campaign sound bites and idiotic obstructionism in the house that turns off the moderates and independents to the point where the GOP gets their ass handed to them in the larger scale elections like the senate.


Yeah, there's some lovely "be careful what you wish for" to that, isn't there? Now their concerns regarding opposition are almost exclusively limited to their party primaries which tend to turn into a series of raging "no, I'M crazier!" derpfests.

One of these years, we'll perhaps see a move towards some sort of non-partisan, objective computer modeling for redistricting but I'm not holding my breath. It's been tried in a few places though, if I'm not mistaken, but I don't know how that's worked out.
2014-01-27 07:50:10 PM  
1 votes:

Rapmaster2000: It only looks like that because the poll takers were biased.  If you unskew the statisticals and study it out, it clearly shows that Republicans are much more popular.  The problem is just messaging.  If only voters heard our REAL views, then they would love them.


Thankfully, this is what many republicans actually believe. Stay the course, gop!
2014-01-27 07:31:56 PM  
1 votes:
The gerymandering thing is interesting - GOP has used it to very successfully control state legislatures, and thereby the house in turn.  But those safe districts are now so safe and isolated from challenge that their elections have gone full retard.  This, in turn, gives us all those fantastic campaign sound bites and idiotic obstructionism in the house that turns off the moderates and independents to the point where the GOP gets their ass handed to them in the larger scale elections like the senate.
2014-01-27 06:47:46 PM  
1 votes:

whidbey: But I suspect you know that, and I'm not trying to make a lecture out of it . I just have a feeling that you're probably going to poo-poo the "support the Dems" suggestion.


Not really... I end up voting Democratic because there isn't any viable 3rd party out there and the Democratic candidates stand the best chance of keeping the Republicans out of office (which is essential in my opinion). I'm still an independent because I only find some common ground with Democratic policy. My hope is that at some point the Republican party will dissolve and be replaced with a new political party that actually wants to improve the country for everyone. I'm not holding my breath on that happening... but that's what I hope will happen at some point in my lifetime.
2014-01-27 05:41:15 PM  
1 votes:

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Gerrymandering seems to be the linchpin for the GOP now. The next time the Democrats get a turn at drawing the lines, the wheels come off. And good riddance.

/unless of course the Democrats try to play fair rather than going for the kill


I think that if the Democrats play fair, then the kill happens in the election.  Republicans can only sustain their advantage by gerrymandering.  With Democrats getting a majority of house votes in 2012, you only have to reset districting to "neutral" for the Democrats to win.
2014-01-27 05:09:58 PM  
1 votes:

qorkfiend: One could argue that appeasement in 1938 was a full-on recognition of the objective reality that the United Kingdom and France weren't ready for an all-out mechanized war with Nazi Germany and that they had to buy as much time as they could to mobilize their own militaries.


No, one couldn't.  Chamberlain's personal letters all indicate that he honestly believed that if he was nice enough to Hitler, Germany would (a) act as a buffer between the USSR and western Europe and (b) become allies with the UK.
2014-01-27 04:26:30 PM  
1 votes:

Cuthbert Allgood: AeAe: The Democrats aren't perfect, but the Republicans are much closer to "Satan's asshole".

Hmm, can I see that in a graph or perhaps a pie chart?


*
2014-01-27 04:26:10 PM  
1 votes:

coyo: physt: Eddie Adams from Torrance: ...and 48% will continue to vote Republican.

There is no cure for stupid.

It's called education. That is why defunding schools is a top Republican priority.


I stand corrected.
2014-01-27 04:16:09 PM  
1 votes:

shut_it_down: Aidan: Satan's Bunny Slippers: I don't want to necessarily knee jerk into "you're a republican so fark you NO", but that's kind of where I am right now. I voted 99.9% Democrat the past 3 elections, although that's not my registry, because I AM at the point of "you're republican? well fark you, your party, the horses you rode in on, and your mom twice".

And that's precisely where my husband is, too.

That's where I am.  The Democrats aren't perfect, but they're not trying to actively fark over minorities, women, gays, immigrants, and poor people.  I mean good lord.  It's too bad, really, because I really want the sane people in that party around to represent viewpoints that I am just not calibrated to worry about.  For instance, I am 0% concerned for the well-being of large companies.  They're rich, if I had my way we would be taxing the motherloving hell out of them instead of nickel-and-diming poor people.  At the same time, I'm sure there are legitimate reasons to not do that and people representing those interests should be able to come to the floor so that we can come to a solution that balances each side's needs and concerns in a rational way.  The GOP is theoretically that differing viewpoint, but right now they don't have positions, they have emotions - and that emotion is usually frothy, rabid rage.


Nicely said.  Better than I did, but it channels what I meant.

Well, there's at least three of us that are "flaming LIBS LIBS LIBS" according to the gop now.

:)

I seem to be in good company.
2014-01-27 04:15:57 PM  
1 votes:

All2morrowsparTs: AeAe: The Democrats aren't perfect, but the Republicans are much closer to "Satan's asshole".

Kind of like Satan's tate?


Did you mean "taint" perhaps?
2014-01-27 04:14:44 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: Eddie Adams from Torrance: ...and 48% will continue to vote Republican.

It's only a matter of time, though.  They've lost the youth and people don't magically turn into bigots and xenophobes and religious lunatics just because they pass that magical boundary from 'young' into 'mature.'

It's only a matter of time before the old scared white voter base that the GOP relies upon dies out completely.


I hope you're correct, but I recall reading a couple studies that suggest people do become more conservative as they get older.  If you're interested, I'll see if I can scare up references.

I suspect it's related to the "Janis Joplin" effect.  The more you have (money and power, mostly) the more conservative you will tend to be in defence of that.

Cheers

//Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose
2014-01-27 04:08:21 PM  
1 votes:

JohnnyC: whidbey: both sides are not equally bad

Fark Independents™ and other Devil's Advocate Concern Trolls exempted by Curtis Fiat.

I still hate that term... "Fark Independents"... Republicans who fled the party like rats on a sinking ship due to Bush's horrific policies and reputation aren't independents and never were independents. Republican refugees would have been a better description for them and wouldn't have sullied the term 'independent" for people like myself who have been an independent their whole life.


Hence the usual "TM" wink when it's used.
2014-01-27 03:55:42 PM  
1 votes:

Satan's Bunny Slippers: qorkfiend: Satan's Bunny Slippers: I don't want to necessarily knee jerk into "you're a republican so fark you NO", but that's kind of where I am right now.  I voted 99.9% Democrat the past 3 elections, although that's not my registry, because I AM at the point of "you're republican? well fark you, your party, the horses you rode in on, and your mom twice".

In a legislative scenario, it's a lot easier to make accurate determinations in general terms.

The majority party's legislative agenda is usually pretty apparent and is not really up to the individual legislators. You could think a specific candidate is an genuinely nice guy, but if he's a party member, that means if he wins he'll contribute to that party's majority, vote for that party's candidate for Speaker, and probably not break ranks in any significant fashion.

If you're opposed to a party's agenda, you probably shouldn't vote for their partisans, even if you actually like them.

I don't....99.9% is the smallest I felt like typing out for 1 republican in the last 3 elections.  In a smallish county in a blue state for a position that doesn't really mean much.  But you're correct, and quite possible never again will I mark that ballot for an R.


Sure. I'm just saying you shouldn't feel bad about knee-jerkiness.
2014-01-27 03:49:30 PM  
1 votes:

qorkfiend: Satan's Bunny Slippers: I don't want to necessarily knee jerk into "you're a republican so fark you NO", but that's kind of where I am right now.  I voted 99.9% Democrat the past 3 elections, although that's not my registry, because I AM at the point of "you're republican? well fark you, your party, the horses you rode in on, and your mom twice".

In a legislative scenario, it's a lot easier to make accurate determinations in general terms.

The majority party's legislative agenda is usually pretty apparent and is not really up to the individual legislators. You could think a specific candidate is an genuinely nice guy, but if he's a party member, that means if he wins he'll contribute to that party's majority, vote for that party's candidate for Speaker, and probably not break ranks in any significant fashion.

If you're opposed to a party's agenda, you probably shouldn't vote for their partisans, even if you actually like them.


I don't....99.9% is the smallest I felt like typing out for 1 republican in the last 3 elections.  In a smallish county in a blue state for a position that doesn't really mean much.  But you're correct, and quite possible never again will I mark that ballot for an R.
2014-01-27 03:49:17 PM  
1 votes:

qorkfiend: Satan's Bunny Slippers: I don't want to necessarily knee jerk into "you're a republican so fark you NO", but that's kind of where I am right now.  I voted 99.9% Democrat the past 3 elections, although that's not my registry, because I AM at the point of "you're republican? well fark you, your party, the horses you rode in on, and your mom twice".

In a legislative scenario, it's a lot easier to make accurate determinations in general terms.

The majority party's legislative agenda is usually pretty apparent and is not really up to the individual legislators. You could think a specific candidate is an genuinely nice guy, but if he's a party member, that means if he wins he'll contribute to that party's majority, vote for that party's candidate for Speaker, and probably not break ranks in any significant fashion.

If you're opposed to a party's agenda, you probably shouldn't vote for their partisans, even if you actually like them.


You run the risk of becoming narrow-minded, though. And after a while, especially with Republican candidates in our neck of the woods, you start to wonder if you already ARE narrow-minded, since not a single one up for election has made us even remotely consider voting for them.
2014-01-27 03:41:10 PM  
1 votes:

Satan's Bunny Slippers: I don't want to necessarily knee jerk into "you're a republican so fark you NO", but that's kind of where I am right now.  I voted 99.9% Democrat the past 3 elections, although that's not my registry, because I AM at the point of "you're republican? well fark you, your party, the horses you rode in on, and your mom twice".


In a legislative scenario, it's a lot easier to make accurate determinations in general terms.

The majority party's legislative agenda is usually pretty apparent and is not really up to the individual legislators. You could think a specific candidate is an genuinely nice guy, but if he's a party member, that means if he wins he'll contribute to that party's majority, vote for that party's candidate for Speaker, and probably not break ranks in any significant fashion.

If you're opposed to a party's agenda, you probably shouldn't vote for their partisans, even if you actually like them.
2014-01-27 03:27:01 PM  
1 votes:

Lord Dimwit: I have yet to hear a non-partisan reason as to why a single city needed to be split into three different Congressional districts. San Antonio was also split, as was Houston and Forth Worth.


Amend that to cover cities that are big enough to have multiple districts on their own.  Houston is big enough to have 3 reps by itself.
2014-01-27 03:20:13 PM  
1 votes:

Lord Dimwit: Oakenshield: Doesn't matter. Gerrymander well enough, and voila. Charles Manson is your state representative.

Congressional districts, in theory, are supposed to be drawn such that people concerned with local issues can speak with a common voice and be represented. My district used to be more-or-less my city plus its suburbs (Austin). Because we kept voting for a Democrat, the state legislature split the city into three different districts. My district now encompasses part of the city, and then proceeds to extend all the way to the outskirts of Houston (but doesn't actually touch Houston because they tend to vote Democratic as well).

I have yet to hear a non-partisan reason as to why a single city needed to be split into three different Congressional districts. San Antonio was also split, as was Houston and Forth Worth.


On the flip side - in some areas gerrymandering consists of enclosing city votes into solid blue districts that go overwhelmingly D so they can tip the surrounding suburban districts into "Lean R". They make one extremely safe Blue district to create two or more fairly safe Red districts.
2014-01-27 03:12:31 PM  
1 votes:

Oakenshield: Doesn't matter. Gerrymander well enough, and voila. Charles Manson is your state representative.


Hopefully in the next couple of election cycles we see the tipping point where gerrymandering turns from a solid majority to a closely contested landslide defeat.  You can only distribute so many "enemy" votes among the "home team" before they begin to overwhelm the point behind gerrymandering in the first place.
2014-01-27 03:08:05 PM  
1 votes:
Doesn't matter. Gerrymander well enough, and voila. Charles Manson is your state representative.
2014-01-27 03:05:16 PM  
1 votes:

Zarquon's Flat Tire: Lord Dimwit: But the GOP will always have wedge issues. I know plenty of people who disagree with 99% of the GOP's platform, but vote Republican anyway because of (a) same-sex marriage, (b) abortion, (c) evolution in schools, (d) something something "Christians are oppressed" something.

I'm not saying they're wrong to do so - if abortion and/or same-sex marriage is 100 times more important than the other issues put together, then that's a reasonable vote. I personally think it's pretty damn stupid, but that's how it goes. Wedge issues are powerful for precisely that reason.

I understand it, but it still seems strange to me. I disagree with some Democrats on gun control (Fienstein, but after hearing so many exaggerations it's difficult to remember her actual views) but that issue pales in comparison to EVERY OTHER ISSUE combined.


So. Much. This.  I've never ever understood the "straight party voter" either.  I disagree with Dems on things to a varying degree, but I disagree with Repubs on pretty much every damn thing that's come out of their mouths for the last 12 years or so.
2014-01-27 03:03:03 PM  
1 votes:
keep going to the right, GOPers, eventually you'll find the rest of Real America there waiting for you.
2014-01-27 03:00:09 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: I'm a democratic voter, but only 30% of the country says democrats are influenced by lobbyists and special interests?


Your name is pretty ironic since that is not what the article actually said.
2014-01-27 02:57:15 PM  
1 votes:
Now if only those people came out and vote things would change rapidly.
2014-01-27 02:54:59 PM  
1 votes:

Isitoveryet: the GOP 3 point plan to address jobs, the economy and get America back on track again;

1.  ban same-sex marriage
2.  ban abortion
3.  repeal Obamacare
4.  anti voter-fraud legislation


these 5 main principles will ensure America remains #1 both economically & militarily for years to come or until Jesus returns upon his velocipede & smites the poor and/or brown people of earth.


/VOTE GOP!


GOP MathTM, it's math that makes you feel better!
2014-01-27 02:53:14 PM  
1 votes:

Lord Dimwit: But the GOP will always have wedge issues. I know plenty of people who disagree with 99% of the GOP's platform, but vote Republican anyway because of (a) same-sex marriage, (b) abortion, (c) evolution in schools, (d) something something "Christians are oppressed" something.

I'm not saying they're wrong to do so - if abortion and/or same-sex marriage is 100 times more important than the other issues put together, then that's a reasonable vote. I personally think it's pretty damn stupid, but that's how it goes. Wedge issues are powerful for precisely that reason.


I understand it, but it still seems strange to me. I disagree with some Democrats on gun control (Fienstein, but after hearing so many exaggerations it's difficult to remember her actual views) but that issue pales in comparison to EVERY OTHER ISSUE combined.
2014-01-27 02:50:30 PM  
1 votes:
We're Mussolini and not Hitler. That should be good enough for anyone!
2014-01-27 02:45:09 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: denying that is denying objective reality.


If denying objective reality were an Olympic sport, America would win every medal, at every Olympics (except maybe '36, where the UK's Neville Chamberlain snuck in a surprise upset).
2014-01-27 02:44:29 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: I'm a democratic voter, but only 30% of the country says democrats are influenced by lobbyists and special interests?

70% of Americans are utter morons.  More if any of the 48% that don't see republicans as being influenced by lobbyists aren't in that 70%.

Lobbyists are a poison with measurable influence, and denying that is denying objective reality.


I think the question was who was more influenced by lobbyists, Dems or the GOP.
2014-01-27 02:43:35 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: I'm a democratic voter, but only 30% of the country says democrats are influenced by lobbyists and special interests?

70% of Americans are utter morons.  More if any of the 48% that don't see republicans as being influenced by lobbyists aren't in that 70%.

Lobbyists are a poison with measurable influence, and denying that is denying objective reality.


Only 30% thought Democrats were "more influenced by lobbyists than Republicans". It's an important distinction. I don't think anyone thinks lobbyists aren't a huge problem, except lobbyists.
2014-01-27 02:26:01 PM  
1 votes:
Hmmm..I think another bill banning Obamacare and abortions will fix this image problem.
 
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