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(Talking Points Memo)   What's the matter with Jersey? (Use both sides of paper if necessary)   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 78
    More: Misc, jersey, culture of corruption, Jim McGreevey, Cape May County, Camden County, North Jersey, New Nation, great spot  
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911 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Jan 2014 at 9:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-27 11:34:20 AM  

s2s2s2: coeyagi: So, you're saying Bridgegate hasn't gone anywhere?

So they found the smoking gun?

coeyagi: Those subpoenas are just figments of the media's imagination?

ZOMG! Subpeonas? Anything come of those, yet?

coeyagi: C'mon, dude, you're f*cking ignoring current events

How is knowing that the spaghetti isn't sticking to the wall "ignoring current events"?


Again, see my last post.  A scandal that is going nowhere means that the investigators have found nothing.  The investigation is ongoing, therefore, it is not going nowhere.

C'mon, Mr. Potato, FFS, just acknowledge reality for once in your f*cking internet life.
 
2014-01-27 11:34:22 AM  

grumpfuff: If it wasn't for Christie, NJ would have had marriage equality years ago.


Probably true, but at least he didn't double down on that particularly horrendous bit of derp.

grumpfuff: The Federal and State investigations haven't finished yet, therefore it means "HAHA YOU GOT NOTHING!"


Until they have something, that's exactly what it means. I've never said there was no smoking gun, but I've learned from several political take down attempts from the past, it is better to count your chickens once they've actually hatched.

neversubmit: Denial is the first stage of grief, help him work though it.


I bet you have that one in your text expander.
 
2014-01-27 11:34:42 AM  
I'm a big old lefty, but Jesus I can't imagine paying the property taxes some of my northern NJ relatives pay for boring not-particularly-high-value houses in blue-collar neighborhoods with middling schools.  Which ties back to the corruption, I guess.
 
2014-01-27 11:38:15 AM  

s2s2s2: grumpfuff: If it wasn't for Christie, NJ would have had marriage equality years ago.

Probably true, but at least he didn't double down on that particularly horrendous bit of derp.

grumpfuff: The Federal and State investigations haven't finished yet, therefore it means "HAHA YOU GOT NOTHING!"

Until they have something, that's exactly what it means. I've never said there was no smoking gun, but I've learned from several political take down attempts from the past, it is better to count your chickens once they've actually hatched.

neversubmit: Denial is the first stage of grief, help him work though it.

I bet you have that one in your text expander.


A bet you would lose, but you must be used to that.
 
2014-01-27 11:45:00 AM  

s2s2s2: coeyagi: So, you're saying Bridgegate hasn't gone anywhere?

So they found the smoking gun?

coeyagi: Those subpoenas are just figments of the media's imagination?

ZOMG! Subpeonas? Anything come of those, yet?

coeyagi: C'mon, dude, you're f*cking ignoring current events

How is knowing that the spaghetti isn't sticking to the wall "ignoring current events"?


Saying things like this do not cast you in a positive light. You should avoid making judgements about what will/will not stick until the State and Federal investigations conclude.
 
2014-01-27 11:46:12 AM  

coeyagi: grumpfuff: coeyagi: s2s2s2: coeyagi: Whatever it is, it will be the first.

LOL

Yeah, they've really taken him down a peg in the eyes of the GOP faithful.
Which one of the scandals have they nailed him on, again?

A: 0

So, you're saying Bridgegate hasn't gone anywhere?  Those subpoenas are just figments of the media's imagination?

C'mon, dude, you're f*cking ignoring current events, not trying to do revisionist history on something that happened decades ago.

It's amusing. The Federal and State investigations haven't finished yet, therefore it means "HAHA YOU GOT NOTHING!"

It just means you can't say it has "gone nowhere".  Nowhere would mean NOTHING IS GOING ON.  I haven't said that this is the scandal that will sink him or ruin his presidential candidacy, I am just saying it is going far from nowhere.

Jesus, do you ever stop and reread your bullsh*t?


Um..what?

I agree with you and your response is to mock me?
 
2014-01-27 11:50:32 AM  

grumpfuff: s2s2s2: coeyagi: So, you're saying Bridgegate hasn't gone anywhere?

So they found the smoking gun?

coeyagi: Those subpoenas are just figments of the media's imagination?

ZOMG! Subpeonas? Anything come of those, yet?

coeyagi: C'mon, dude, you're f*cking ignoring current events

How is knowing that the spaghetti isn't sticking to the wall "ignoring current events"?

Saying things like this do not cast you in a positive light. You should avoid making judgements about what will/will not stick until the State and Federal investigations conclude.


He's saying he has inside information, you wouldn't know it. It's from Canada.
 
2014-01-27 11:52:58 AM  

neversubmit: A bet you would lose, but you must be used to that.


Way to play that hand. An opportunity to win a bet, and you just show your hand before the ante is in.

Perfect.

grumpfuff: You should avoid making judgements about what will/will not stick


I didn't say anything about will or won't. Remember, the context was "current events" not "future events".

coeyagi: The investigation is ongoing, therefore, it is not going nowhere.


I said it hasn't gotten there, yet, not that it was stalled. Neither of us know where it will end up.

grumpfuff: I agree with you and your response is to mock me?


He's probably not sure where he is. He definitely has no idea where I am.
 
2014-01-27 11:53:04 AM  

BitwiseShift: nekom: You can't pump your own gas there.  What the hell is that all about?

Insurance. For a gas station it's cheaper to hire someone, probably trained in HazMat, than pay the extra insurance for your neighbor's Ford Exploder to spark an item on the news when he drops his cigarette trying to dial with one hand and hold the pump with the other.

Why NJ gas and diesel is so cheap, like South Texas cheap, is the real mystery..


Christie steered all the money from the train tunnel project he cancelled to the general fund in order to avoid raising the fuel tax.

Nobody in his admin could profit off of the tunnel, and we've all seen that profit motive is what drives the man.
 
2014-01-27 11:53:55 AM  

s2s2s2: coeyagi: So, you're saying Bridgegate hasn't gone anywhere?

So they found the smoking gun?

coeyagi: Those subpoenas are just figments of the media's imagination?

ZOMG! Subpeonas? Anything come of those, yet?

coeyagi: C'mon, dude, you're f*cking ignoring current events

How is knowing that the spaghetti isn't sticking to the wall "ignoring current events"?


The first round of the media circus is over and almost nobody is talking about BridgeGateTM "scandal" now.

You might as well wait until the federal inquiry ends and fills the politics tab with greenlights of half-truths before claiming anything about Khristie Kream.
 
2014-01-27 12:00:20 PM  

Lawnchair: I'm a big old lefty, but Jesus I can't imagine paying the property taxes some of my northern NJ relatives pay for boring not-particularly-high-value houses in blue-collar neighborhoods with middling schools.  Which ties back to the corruption, I guess.


Second time ITT someone claims NJ schools are "bad". But why? I lived in NJ for a while, and though I never attended public school there, I don't recall hearing anything above and beyond the standard complaints. Is this because Christie yelled at a teacher?

This list (USN&WR) has them at #11 nationwide (top quarter) because just under 14% of their schools are gold- or silver-medal winners.
The NEA (PDF warning) says NJ has the 4th-lowest ratio of students to teachers (12, meaning all but 3 states have more students for each teacher), 3rd-highest expenditures per student ($18,485), 7th-most K-12 teachers (113,250), 5th-highest average teacher salary ($66,612)...

So the kids do well, and so do the teachers. Seems like "NJ schools suck" is one of those things that everyone knows to be true, except it ain't.

// maybe the taxpayers hate that NJ spends so much on schools?
// except NJ is the most densely populated state in the country, so people (even those with kids) want to live there
// a conundrum...
 
2014-01-27 12:01:07 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Christie steered all the money from the train tunnel project he cancelled to the general fund in order to avoid raising the fuel tax.

Nobody in his admin could profit off of the tunnel, and we've all seen that profit motive is what drives the man.


shiat, I know a number of tunneling companies, as well as Eastern Concrete, would have paid him a huge f'ing bribe for that tunnel to come out for bid.
 
2014-01-27 12:07:13 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Lawnchair: I'm a big old lefty, but Jesus I can't imagine paying the property taxes some of my northern NJ relatives pay for boring not-particularly-high-value houses in blue-collar neighborhoods with middling schools.  Which ties back to the corruption, I guess.

Second time ITT someone claims NJ schools are "bad". But why? I lived in NJ for a while, and though I never attended public school there, I don't recall hearing anything above and beyond the standard complaints. Is this because Christie yelled at a teacher?

This list (USN&WR) has them at #11 nationwide (top quarter) because just under 14% of their schools are gold- or silver-medal winners.
The NEA (PDF warning) says NJ has the 4th-lowest ratio of students to teachers (12, meaning all but 3 states have more students for each teacher), 3rd-highest expenditures per student ($18,485), 7th-most K-12 teachers (113,250), 5th-highest average teacher salary ($66,612)...

So the kids do well, and so do the teachers. Seems like "NJ schools suck" is one of those things that everyone knows to be true, except it ain't.

// maybe the taxpayers hate that NJ spends so much on schools?
// except NJ is the most densely populated state in the country, so people (even those with kids) want to live there
// a conundrum...


It's far easier to make up stuff about NJ or go "Ha ha it stinks there! You don't pump your own gas! Jersey Shore!" etc than to admit one is wrong and that NJ might not be such a bad place after all.
 
2014-01-27 12:09:02 PM  

Dr Dreidel: // maybe the taxpayers hate that NJ spends so much on schools?


That's what it is, but the habit of spreading vitriol about teachers has lead many to believe that public education in NJ is bad. It isn't.
 
2014-01-27 12:10:57 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Lawnchair: I'm a big old lefty, but Jesus I can't imagine paying the property taxes some of my northern NJ relatives pay for boring not-particularly-high-value houses in blue-collar neighborhoods with middling schools.  Which ties back to the corruption, I guess.

Second time ITT someone claims NJ schools are "bad". But why? I lived in NJ for a while, and though I never attended public school there, I don't recall hearing anything above and beyond the standard complaints. Is this because Christie yelled at a teacher?

This list (USN&WR) has them at #11 nationwide (top quarter) because just under 14% of their schools are gold- or silver-medal winners.
The NEA (PDF warning) says NJ has the 4th-lowest ratio of students to teachers (12, meaning all but 3 states have more students for each teacher), 3rd-highest expenditures per student ($18,485), 7th-most K-12 teachers (113,250), 5th-highest average teacher salary ($66,612)...

So the kids do well, and so do the teachers. Seems like "NJ schools suck" is one of those things that everyone knows to be true, except it ain't.

// maybe the taxpayers hate that NJ spends so much on schools?
// except NJ is the most densely populated state in the country, so people (even those with kids) want to live there
// a conundrum...


I've largely come to the conclusion that "NJ schools suck" is code for "The NJ teachers' union is too powerful".
 
2014-01-27 12:32:33 PM  
TL;DNR.
 
2014-01-27 12:34:37 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Second time ITT someone claims NJ schools are "bad". But why? I lived in NJ for a while, and though I never attended public school there, I don't recall hearing anything above and beyond the standard complaints. Is this because Christie yelled at a teacher?


Go back and re-read my post, please.  I didn't say that NJ schools are bad.  There are plenty of entirely awesome public schools, especially if you're in some of the richer parts of Hunterdon County or the tonier suburbs from Totowa west or the like.  Averaged out, they beat the pants of the averaged-out schools in my state.

I said that the schools in the particular case I had in mind (Kearny to be exact) were middlingly okay, and they are, and the taxes are insanely high for middling schools, and they are.  There are also quite a few utterly abysmal schools in the state.
 
2014-01-27 01:07:07 PM  

Lawnchair: Dr Dreidel: Second time ITT someone claims NJ schools are "bad". But why? I lived in NJ for a while, and though I never attended public school there, I don't recall hearing anything above and beyond the standard complaints. Is this because Christie yelled at a teacher?

Go back and re-read my post, please.  I didn't say that NJ schools are bad.  There are plenty of entirely awesome public schools, especially if you're in some of the richer parts of Hunterdon County or the tonier suburbs from Totowa west or the like.  Averaged out, they beat the pants of the averaged-out schools in my state.

I said that the schools in the particular case I had in mind (Kearny to be exact) were middlingly okay, and they are, and the taxes are insanely high for middling schools, and they are.  There are also quite a few utterly abysmal schools in the state.


You get what you pay for. You want high-performing schools, you'd best be prepared to pay for them.

// I wish the GOP understood this for areas other than their own salaries
// the bonus is that many of these kids grow up to provide far more than ($18,485 x 4 =) $73,490 in revenue & benefits for NJ
 
2014-01-27 01:07:33 PM  

coeyagi: C'mon, Mr. Potato, FFS, just acknowledge reality for once in your f*cking internet life.



No subpoenas target Christie himself
 
2014-01-27 01:11:12 PM  

Ambivalence: It's shaped like an infected appendix (whereas Maryland is shaped like a healthy appendix).


And the next large hurricane is going to perform an appendectomy (or a bris.)

scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2014-01-27 01:27:00 PM  

grumpfuff: It's far easier to make up stuff about NJ or go "Ha ha it stinks there! You don't pump your own gas! Jersey Shore!" etc than to admit one is wrong and that NJ might not be such a bad place after all.


No no no no no

New Jersey does stink. At least, those areas a person just passing through might be exposed to do. Think about it - you drive through Northern NJ on the Turnpike and what do you see? Refineries, Port Elizabeth, factories, train tracks, airport, etc. And the smell! Fly in to Newark Airport? Same deal. Take one of the few train lines that pass through? Again, same deal.  This is all intentional. As long as people who pass through continue to think it's a stinky industrial shiathole, they are far less likely to discover any of the areas that demonstrate why NJ is called the Garden State, and they'll happily go back to bumfark West Idaho and spread the news about how terrible it is.

tl;dr: Yes, please, stay out. It's a stinky shiathole full of Jersey Shore rejects and wall to wall refineries. Really, I promise - the entire state is like what you see from the Turnpike. ALL OF IT. STAY AWAY
 
2014-01-27 01:30:25 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: grumpfuff: It's far easier to make up stuff about NJ or go "Ha ha it stinks there! You don't pump your own gas! Jersey Shore!" etc than to admit one is wrong and that NJ might not be such a bad place after all.

No no no no no

New Jersey does stink. At least, those areas a person just passing through might be exposed to do. Think about it - you drive through Northern NJ on the Turnpike and what do you see? Refineries, Port Elizabeth, factories, train tracks, airport, etc. And the smell! Fly in to Newark Airport? Same deal. Take one of the few train lines that pass through? Again, same deal.  This is all intentional. As long as people who pass through continue to think it's a stinky industrial shiathole, they are far less likely to discover any of the areas that demonstrate why NJ is called the Garden State, and they'll happily go back to bumfark West Idaho and spread the news about how terrible it is.

tl;dr: Yes, please, stay out. It's a stinky shiathole full of Jersey Shore rejects and wall to wall refineries. Really, I promise - the entire state is like what you see from the Turnpike. ALL OF IT. STAY AWAY


You. I like you.
 
2014-01-27 01:32:20 PM  
I really don't like pumping gas and view the full service thing as good. The rest of Jersey, still bad.
 
2014-01-27 01:36:55 PM  

Dr Dreidel: // except NJ is the most densely populated state in the country, so people (even those with kids) want to live there


Nobody lives in Jersey anymore... it's too crowded.
 
2014-01-27 02:07:42 PM  

s2s2s2: ckccfa: As a young gay woman, I am terrified of any viable republican candidate

You really shouldn't be. Equality is winning. It's an unfortunately hard road, but the destination is in view. Long overdue.


Really?  Why shouldn't I be?  Did NC not just add an extra super duper ban on gay marriage recently?  Isn't IN trying to right now?  Are these things not pushed by republicans?  Are the issues of my personal life (as a gay person) still not constant political fodder?  Did the latest GOP candidate for president not come out against gay marriage?  Did he not have to pause and think about it when asked about things like hospital visitation?  Are republicans no longer campaigning on restricting my rights?  Equality is starting to win, but we're still a damn long way from won.
There are still 29 states where you can be fired from your job or evicted from housing for being gay.  There are still 33 states where you cannot get married and your marriage will not be recognized.  There still are no strong, legislative protections for gay people on the federal level, and there won't be as long as republicans hold a majority in the House.  So why should I not fear republican leadership?  What reason would I have not to?

ckccfa: As a married gay person, many of the federal rights and recognitions I currently enjoy are at the whim and discretion of the executive branch.

s2s2s2: We definitely need to shrink the government's role in how we live our personal lives.


Yes, we do, and I have seen nothing from the republican party on this issue, ever, that would indicate that they will get out of my personal life.  Instead, as both a female and a queer, they seem unduly interested in regulating me--as a human and a citizen.

ckccfa: So I, personally, am very glad that Christie's presidential ambitions have taken a hit.

s2s2s2: ...among people that wouldn't have voted for him in the first place. This is making him look better, to the GOP. It's a dangerous game.


I get the sense that a solid portion of the conservative base hates him--he's too "liberal", too east coast, too jersey, and he acted like a normal human being when the president came to visit during the hurricane.  If anything, this "scandal" makes him vulnerable to attacks from the right--"here's another establishment new england republican, abusing and expanding the government, we need a real conservative who believes in real freedom and less interference, etc."

ckccfa: Remember that he vetoed marriage equality and thought it should have been put to majority vote.

s2s2s2: He also backed down. Isn't equal marriage is legal in NJ, now?


Oh my god, you're right.  Backing down on the issue after fighting against it and actively blocking it and making public statements against it for years makes everything fine now.  He's a totally cool guy, and we can totes trust him now.
He played a political game with people's rights--he blocked it and spoke against it (and again, treated civil rights like a popularity contest) when and where he could to bolster his conservative credentials, and when it finally made it to the judicial branch he laid down his arms so he could appear more moderate for a national campaign.  Meanwhile, gay people in NJ suffered real and material harm.

I am having internet issues with my provider, right now, so I cant get a link, but last I heard, his second biggest error in the eyes of the GOP was backing down on the marriage ban.

So again, if this is his second biggest error in the eyes of the GOP, why shouldn't I continue to fear them?  If expanding equality before the law to include gay people is so odious to one political party that they consider it a "mistake" to make any gesture towards it, isn't my fear valid?  I feared Christie because he appeared more moderate, and I figured that he had a good chance with the general public in a national election.  And if he won, he was going to surround himself with staff and lawmakers from his party, which still has hating gay people as a key platform.

Even if Christie has moderated himself on the issue, the rest of the party hasn't, and they haven't given up the fight yet.   The tide may be turning in our favor, but in the meantime there's still a lot of bad shiat that could happen legislatively, GOP lawmakers seem generally determined to kick up whatever fuss they can, and there's a whole lot of laws we need passed to ensure our civic equality and safety.  Laws the GOP tries to block at every turn.  So excuse me if I'm feeling apprehensive while my rights are still up in the air.
 
2014-01-27 02:21:09 PM  

ckccfa: why shouldn't I continue to fear them?


Fear is a waste of your time, and a weakness to be exploited by others.

www.thinklikeahorse.org

Recognizing the evil of the Republican party shouldn't require fear.

As for the rest of your response, I have no argument with your politics.
 
2014-01-27 02:49:20 PM  

s2s2s2: ckccfa: why shouldn't I continue to fear them?

Fear is a waste of your time, and a weakness to be exploited by others.

[www.thinklikeahorse.org image 400x200]

Recognizing the evil of the Republican party shouldn't require fear.

As for the rest of your response, I have no argument with your politics.


Seriously, you're going with some zen bullshiat and a yoda picture?  What the fark are you even trying to say?  That I shouldn't be afraid that one of the two parties in our political system would try to strip me of or block every single legal protection that I, as a gay person, need to freely live and work in every part of the country?  That I shouldn't worry that my current rights and protections are due to a fairly small margin?  (54% of Americans now claim to be in favor of gay marriage, but that means 46% don't, and surveys don't often match voting; the popular presidential vote was 53-47.)  That I don't need to keep this in mind and work against the GOP gaining any further power to fark me?

Good for you, I guess, that you don't have to deal with this kind of stress--with being a second class citizen before the law and limited in where you can safely live and work--but why the fark do you feel the need to diminish the very valid anxiety most gay people still feel about their rights and lives?  What point are you trying to make, or what are you trying to prove?
 
2014-01-27 02:58:30 PM  

ckccfa: but why the fark do you feel the need to diminish the very valid anxiety most gay people still feel about their rights and lives?


I don't seek to invalidate your reasons for fear. Your logic via the GOP is more than sound. You are right, as a person who is primarily heteronorm, I don't face the same difficulties you face. I still won't recommend fear. Though the GOP make great use of it, as it is the best way to rally the simple to action.
 
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