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(Talking Points Memo)   What's the matter with Jersey? (Use both sides of paper if necessary)   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 78
    More: Misc, jersey, culture of corruption, Jim McGreevey, Cape May County, Camden County, North Jersey, New Nation, great spot  
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909 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Jan 2014 at 9:42 AM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



78 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-27 08:49:17 AM
It's had to wingman for New York for so long that it started falling in love with the repulsive humanoids it had to f*ck.
 
2014-01-27 08:51:07 AM
It looked up to Illinois as a role model to corruption?
 
2014-01-27 09:29:01 AM
I'm not sure if this author just can't get to the point, is paid by the word, or I no longer have any attention span... I pretty much lost all interest after some odd thing about paying for parking when it could have been free, or holding multiple elected offices, and what that had the fark to do with ...I ...
 
2014-01-27 09:30:12 AM
You can't pump your own gas there.  What the hell is that all about?
 
2014-01-27 09:45:16 AM
It's the nation's armpit?
 
2014-01-27 09:49:18 AM
They're lame like New York, New Hampshire, and New Mexico? Come up with something original, you dorks.
 
2014-01-27 09:49:26 AM
What's the matter with Jersey?

Easy. A bunch of liberals, for reasons I can't comprehend, bought into the "I'm a bi-partisan moderate!" bullshiat our dough ball of a governor was spewing.
 
2014-01-27 09:52:15 AM
abcnews.go.com
www.eonline.com
 
2014-01-27 09:58:20 AM
In an image....

www.lonelyplanet.com
 
2014-01-27 09:59:15 AM
Lived in Jersey for ten years, 2001-2011.

Things wrong with NJ:
Can't pump your own gas
The Shore (it's a farking BEACH); included in that the number of private beaches
Phili
NYC
Camden
Jersey City/Newark

Things right with NJ:
Chick parm, meat ball parm, prosciutto + fresh mozzarella subs
Pizza
Delis
Boylan Sodas
Stewarts Sodas (yes, I know these come from New York)
Portuguese bbq
 
2014-01-27 10:03:13 AM
Statistically New Jersey does not suffer from an unusual amount of corruption. Sure, we put big numbers on the board, but we're nothing like Louisiana or Illinois or parts of the old Confederacy.


static6.businessinsider.com
 
2014-01-27 10:05:26 AM
Well, my first guess would be "a lot"...
i1.ytimg.com

// Jersey-born, and proud
 
2014-01-27 10:05:47 AM
I never thought of Jersey as a corrupt state with their high median income and all.

When I think of corruption I think of Detroit, Illinois, and the deep South.
 
2014-01-27 10:07:23 AM
It has the only potential presidential candidate that the DNC is actually, to quote from any article about Wendy Davis, "SO AFRAID OF!!!1"?
 
2014-01-27 10:07:55 AM

Sybarite: Statistically New Jersey does not suffer from an unusual amount of corruption. Sure, we put big numbers on the board, but we're nothing like Louisiana or Illinois or parts of the old Confederacy.


[static6.businessinsider.com image 813x961]


Wow, Texas and California are surprisingly clean.
 
2014-01-27 10:10:21 AM
Decaying infrastructure
Endemic political corruption
Pollution (one of the highest asthma rates in the country)
Highest property taxes in the country (this is bound to get worse as the rest of the country opens up gambling operations and AC revenue tanks)
Nearly 9 percent of adults in the state have diabetes and 61.5 percent are either overweight or obese
 
2014-01-27 10:11:53 AM

s2s2s2: It has the only potential presidential candidate that the DNC is actually, to quote from any article about Wendy Davis, "SO AFRAID OF!!!1"?


I just don't think the Snooki/Jwow ticket is viable in 2016. We're not ready for a chunky guido as our leader.
 
2014-01-27 10:14:53 AM

Obama's Reptiloid Master: I just don't think the Snooki/Jwow ticket is viable in 2016. We're not ready for a chunky guido as our leader.


Mentions two fairly thin girls, while Governor FAT-FATTY-FAT-FAT reigns.
 
2014-01-27 10:15:50 AM
Norcross is the answer to a lot of this.

Do you really think its coincidence that Christie's agenda is based around "reforming" New Jersey's public schools, some of the best in the country, and Norcross happens to own huge stakes in a charter school company?

/bi-partisan corruption
 
2014-01-27 10:17:36 AM

nekom: You can't pump your own gas there.  What the hell is that all about?


Insurance. For a gas station it's cheaper to hire someone, probably trained in HazMat, than pay the extra insurance for your neighbor's Ford Exploder to spark an item on the news when he drops his cigarette trying to dial with one hand and hold the pump with the other.

Why NJ gas and diesel is so cheap, like South Texas cheap, is the real mystery..
 
2014-01-27 10:18:51 AM

s2s2s2: Obama's Reptiloid Master: I just don't think the Snooki/Jwow ticket is viable in 2016. We're not ready for a chunky guido as our leader.

Mentions two fairly thin girls, while Governor FAT-FATTY-FAT-FAT reigns.


I bet you're a real riot at parties.

"You see, the reason ORM's joke is funny is that it portrays the average-sized yet large for television stars Snooki and Jwow as the rotund Italian Americans, when in fact Chris Christie is the large one ORM is snidely saying is unfit to be President. For a follow up, I suggest he make a Taft 2.0 joke to really drive the point home!"

"Hey, where's everyone going? I was just about to analyze why Community is the funniest show on television!"
 
2014-01-27 10:20:45 AM

super_grass: Sybarite: Statistically New Jersey does not suffer from an unusual amount of corruption. Sure, we put big numbers on the board, but we're nothing like Louisiana or Illinois or parts of the old Confederacy.


[static6.businessinsider.com image 813x961]

Wow, Texas and California are surprisingly clean.


Unless those other states are so corrupt they can't get a conviction. Just a thought.
 
2014-01-27 10:21:58 AM

super_grass: Wow, Texas and California are surprisingly clean.


For Texas, there's a service you can hire to keep the published number low.
 
2014-01-27 10:23:51 AM

nekom: You can't pump your own gas there.  What the hell is that all about?


It's freaking awesome when it's 5 degrees outside.

Not only do they pump it for you while you stay toasty warm inside your car, but it's $.30/gallon cheaper than in New York.
 
2014-01-27 10:32:11 AM

AliceBToklasLives: [www.eonline.com image 300x484]


False.

Snooki was born and raised, and still lives in, NY.

s2s2s2: It has the only potential presidential candidate that the DNC is actually, to quote from any article about Wendy Davis, "SO AFRAID OF!!!1"?


I'm hoping that's sarcasm, because we've been over why the DNC should not fear him.

organizmx: Norcross is the answer to a lot of this.


Ah yes, the more local version of "SOROS!!!!!!"


BitwiseShift: Why NJ gas and diesel is so cheap, like South Texas cheap, is the real mystery..


You know that smell that people complain about in NJ? That comes from two things. Trash incinerators and oil refineries, both of which we have tons of. We also have one of the largest, if not the largest, port on the East Coast. It's no real mystery if you have any idea about the state's infrastructure and such.
 
2014-01-27 10:34:42 AM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: nekom: You can't pump your own gas there.  What the hell is that all about?

It's freaking awesome when it's 5 degrees outside.

Not only do they pump it for you while you stay toasty warm inside your car, but it's $.30/gallon cheaper than in New York.


For a 15-gallon tank, that's $4.50/fill-up in savings (less if you tip the pump jockey, which - does anyone do that anymore?). Not nothing, but when a fill up in NJ takes twice as long (or longer) than a fill up in DE or NY or PA, I'd rather just spot Sunoco the fin and be on my merry instead.
 
2014-01-27 10:40:48 AM

grumpfuff: I'm hoping that's sarcasm, because we've been over why the DNC should not fear him.


I'm glad to say your hope is not in vain.

That said, I wonder what the next Christie scandal that goes nowhere will be. If they don't make a connection on one of these attempts, they will have to fear him.
 
2014-01-27 10:41:38 AM

BitwiseShift: super_grass: Wow, Texas and California are surprisingly clean.

For Texas, there's a service you can hire to keep the published number low.


What service would that be?
 
2014-01-27 10:42:15 AM

neversubmit: BitwiseShift: super_grass: Wow, Texas and California are surprisingly clean.

For Texas, there's a service you can hire to keep the published number low.

What service would that be?


Hire me.
 
2014-01-27 10:47:24 AM
It's shaped like an infected appendix (whereas Maryland is shaped like a healthy appendix).
 
2014-01-27 10:48:11 AM

Darth_Lukecash: It looked up to Illinois as a role model to corruption?


Illinois is about average in corruption, and, unlike other states, Illinois's corruption is about equally balanced between Cook County Democrat corruption and Downstate Republican corruption. This keeps things from getting too out of hand.

Frankly, whenever someone yells "Illinois corruption" or "Chicago Machine corruption," it's a sure sign that person is behind the times and not well-informed.
 
2014-01-27 10:53:25 AM

BitwiseShift: For a gas station it's cheaper to hire someone, probably trained in HazMat, than pay the extra insurance for your neighbor's Ford Exploder to spark an item on the news when he drops his cigarette trying to dial with one hand and hold the pump with the other.


If this were true, gas stations in other states would require full service. The fact that they do not is pretty solid proof that it is false.
 
2014-01-27 10:59:48 AM

thurstonxhowell: BitwiseShift: For a gas station it's cheaper to hire someone, probably trained in HazMat, than pay the extra insurance for your neighbor's Ford Exploder to spark an item on the news when he drops his cigarette trying to dial with one hand and hold the pump with the other.

If this were true, gas stations in other states would require full service. The fact that they do not is pretty solid proof that it is false.



You know, I don't mind a guy being wrong. Happens to the best of us. But I can't stand it when Farkers, in particular, just make shiat up and try to pass it off as fact. Come on, man.
 
2014-01-27 11:09:56 AM

BitwiseShift: Why NJ gas and diesel is so cheap, like South Texas cheap, is the real mystery..


No mystery. Gasoline taxes in NJ are some of the lowest in the nation ($.14.5/gal). Gas taxes in neighboring NY and CT are some of the higest ($.50/gal).

http://taxfoundation.org/article/state-gasoline-tax-rates-2009-2013
 
2014-01-27 11:10:17 AM
I was always fond of the Hunter Thomson explanation for Louisiana. Just a dumping ground for criminals in the early days.
 
2014-01-27 11:10:44 AM
 

BitwiseShift: Why NJ gas and diesel is so cheap, like South Texas cheap, is the real mystery..


The NJ Turnpike and the Garden State Parkway.  NJ has a relatively low excise tax on gas because it makes it up in tolls.  It's the same reason it only costs 50 bucks to register your car each year and you don't have to pay extra for a smog check every 2 years.
 
2014-01-27 11:10:57 AM

s2s2s2: It has the only potential presidential candidate that the DNC is was actually, to quote from any article about Wendy Davis, "SO AFRAID OF!!!1"?


FTFY
 
2014-01-27 11:11:47 AM

thurstonxhowell: BitwiseShift: For a gas station it's cheaper to hire someone, probably trained in HazMat, than pay the extra insurance for your neighbor's Ford Exploder to spark an item on the news when he drops his cigarette trying to dial with one hand and hold the pump with the other.

If this were true, gas stations in other states would require full service. The fact that they do not is pretty solid proof that it is false.


Fact: It's because the powerful NJ Gas Jockey Union has a stranglehold on Trenton.
 
2014-01-27 11:12:33 AM

s2s2s2: grumpfuff: I'm hoping that's sarcasm, because we've been over why the DNC should not fear him.

I'm glad to say your hope is not in vain.

That said, I wonder what the next Christie scandal that goes nowhere will be. If they don't make a connection on one of these attempts, they will have to fear him.


Whatever it is, it will be the first.  Unless you are considering how the GOP flipped it's sh*t when he hugged the black guy back in late 2012.
 
2014-01-27 11:16:11 AM

s2s2s2: It has the only potential presidential candidate that the DNC is actually, to quote from any article about Wendy Davis, "SO AFRAID OF!!!1"?


As a young gay woman, I am terrified of any viable republican candidate--their public statements and policy actions make it pretty clear that, as a party, they are out to get me.
As a married gay person, many of the federal rights and recognitions I currently enjoy are at the whim and discretion of the executive branch.  Until gays are made fully equal before the law, all us queers have good, concrete reasons to fear any kind of republican leadership.
So I, personally, am very glad that Christie's presidential ambitions have taken a hit.  Remember that he vetoed marriage equality and thought it should have been put to majority vote.  That's a dangerous and farked up way to think, and I rejoice at his misfortune.
 
2014-01-27 11:17:00 AM
It is in England?
Now, New Jersey on the other hand...
 
2014-01-27 11:17:07 AM

coeyagi: Whatever it is, it will be the first.


LOL

Yeah, they've really taken him down a peg in the eyes of the GOP faithful.
Which one of the scandals have they nailed him on, again?

A: 0
 
2014-01-27 11:17:28 AM

gizmo22: BitwiseShift: Why NJ gas and diesel is so cheap, like South Texas cheap, is the real mystery..

The NJ Turnpike and the Garden State Parkway.  NJ has a relatively low excise tax on gas because it makes it up in tolls.  It's the same reason it only costs 50 bucks to register your car each year and you don't have to pay extra for a smog check every 2 years.


So they have a financial incentive to keep people from stopping in their state
 
2014-01-27 11:19:46 AM

s2s2s2: coeyagi: Whatever it is, it will be the first.

LOL

Yeah, they've really taken him down a peg in the eyes of the GOP faithful.
Which one of the scandals have they nailed him on, again?

A: 0


So, you're saying Bridgegate hasn't gone anywhere?  Those subpoenas are just figments of the media's imagination?

C'mon, dude, you're f*cking ignoring current events, not trying to do revisionist history on something that happened decades ago.
 
2014-01-27 11:27:03 AM

ckccfa: As a young gay woman, I am terrified of any viable republican candidate


You really shouldn't be. Equality is winning. It's an unfortunately hard road, but the destination is in view. Long overdue.

ckccfa: As a married gay person, many of the federal rights and recognitions I currently enjoy are at the whim and discretion of the executive branch.


We definitely need to shrink the government's role in how we live our personal lives.

ckccfa: So I, personally, am very glad that Christie's presidential ambitions have taken a hit.


...among people that wouldn't have voted for him in the first place. This is making him look better, to the GOP. It's a dangerous game.

ckccfa: Remember that he vetoed marriage equality and thought it should have been put to majority vote.


He also backed down. Isn't equal marriage is legal in NJ, now?

I am having internet issues with my provider, right now, so I cant get a link, but last I heard, his second biggest error in the eyes of the GOP was backing down on the marriage ban.
 
2014-01-27 11:28:52 AM

coeyagi: s2s2s2: coeyagi: Whatever it is, it will be the first.

LOL

Yeah, they've really taken him down a peg in the eyes of the GOP faithful.
Which one of the scandals have they nailed him on, again?

A: 0

So, you're saying Bridgegate hasn't gone anywhere?  Those subpoenas are just figments of the media's imagination?

C'mon, dude, you're f*cking ignoring current events, not trying to do revisionist history on something that happened decades ago.


It's amusing. The Federal and State investigations haven't finished yet, therefore it means "HAHA YOU GOT NOTHING!"
 
2014-01-27 11:30:25 AM

s2s2s2: He also backed down. Isn't equal marriage is legal in NJ, now?


Yea, he did. Because people in the state were calling for his head for wasting tax dollars. He looked around, went "Oops, I have to continue pretending to be bi-partisan," and backed down.

If it wasn't for Christie, NJ would have had marriage equality years ago.
 
2014-01-27 11:30:30 AM

grumpfuff: coeyagi: s2s2s2: coeyagi: Whatever it is, it will be the first.

LOL

Yeah, they've really taken him down a peg in the eyes of the GOP faithful.
Which one of the scandals have they nailed him on, again?

A: 0

So, you're saying Bridgegate hasn't gone anywhere?  Those subpoenas are just figments of the media's imagination?

C'mon, dude, you're f*cking ignoring current events, not trying to do revisionist history on something that happened decades ago.

It's amusing. The Federal and State investigations haven't finished yet, therefore it means "HAHA YOU GOT NOTHING!"


Come on guys. Denial is the first stage of grief, help him work though it.
:)
 
2014-01-27 11:30:47 AM

coeyagi: So, you're saying Bridgegate hasn't gone anywhere?


So they found the smoking gun?

coeyagi: Those subpoenas are just figments of the media's imagination?


ZOMG! Subpeonas? Anything come of those, yet?

coeyagi: C'mon, dude, you're f*cking ignoring current events


How is knowing that the spaghetti isn't sticking to the wall "ignoring current events"?
 
2014-01-27 11:32:57 AM

grumpfuff: coeyagi: s2s2s2: coeyagi: Whatever it is, it will be the first.

LOL

Yeah, they've really taken him down a peg in the eyes of the GOP faithful.
Which one of the scandals have they nailed him on, again?

A: 0

So, you're saying Bridgegate hasn't gone anywhere?  Those subpoenas are just figments of the media's imagination?

C'mon, dude, you're f*cking ignoring current events, not trying to do revisionist history on something that happened decades ago.

It's amusing. The Federal and State investigations haven't finished yet, therefore it means "HAHA YOU GOT NOTHING!"


It just means you can't say it has "gone nowhere".  Nowhere would mean NOTHING IS GOING ON.  I haven't said that this is the scandal that will sink him or ruin his presidential candidacy, I am just saying it is going far from nowhere.

Jesus, do you ever stop and reread your bullsh*t?
 
2014-01-27 11:34:20 AM

s2s2s2: coeyagi: So, you're saying Bridgegate hasn't gone anywhere?

So they found the smoking gun?

coeyagi: Those subpoenas are just figments of the media's imagination?

ZOMG! Subpeonas? Anything come of those, yet?

coeyagi: C'mon, dude, you're f*cking ignoring current events

How is knowing that the spaghetti isn't sticking to the wall "ignoring current events"?


Again, see my last post.  A scandal that is going nowhere means that the investigators have found nothing.  The investigation is ongoing, therefore, it is not going nowhere.

C'mon, Mr. Potato, FFS, just acknowledge reality for once in your f*cking internet life.
 
2014-01-27 11:34:22 AM

grumpfuff: If it wasn't for Christie, NJ would have had marriage equality years ago.


Probably true, but at least he didn't double down on that particularly horrendous bit of derp.

grumpfuff: The Federal and State investigations haven't finished yet, therefore it means "HAHA YOU GOT NOTHING!"


Until they have something, that's exactly what it means. I've never said there was no smoking gun, but I've learned from several political take down attempts from the past, it is better to count your chickens once they've actually hatched.

neversubmit: Denial is the first stage of grief, help him work though it.


I bet you have that one in your text expander.
 
2014-01-27 11:34:42 AM
I'm a big old lefty, but Jesus I can't imagine paying the property taxes some of my northern NJ relatives pay for boring not-particularly-high-value houses in blue-collar neighborhoods with middling schools.  Which ties back to the corruption, I guess.
 
2014-01-27 11:38:15 AM

s2s2s2: grumpfuff: If it wasn't for Christie, NJ would have had marriage equality years ago.

Probably true, but at least he didn't double down on that particularly horrendous bit of derp.

grumpfuff: The Federal and State investigations haven't finished yet, therefore it means "HAHA YOU GOT NOTHING!"

Until they have something, that's exactly what it means. I've never said there was no smoking gun, but I've learned from several political take down attempts from the past, it is better to count your chickens once they've actually hatched.

neversubmit: Denial is the first stage of grief, help him work though it.

I bet you have that one in your text expander.


A bet you would lose, but you must be used to that.
 
2014-01-27 11:45:00 AM

s2s2s2: coeyagi: So, you're saying Bridgegate hasn't gone anywhere?

So they found the smoking gun?

coeyagi: Those subpoenas are just figments of the media's imagination?

ZOMG! Subpeonas? Anything come of those, yet?

coeyagi: C'mon, dude, you're f*cking ignoring current events

How is knowing that the spaghetti isn't sticking to the wall "ignoring current events"?


Saying things like this do not cast you in a positive light. You should avoid making judgements about what will/will not stick until the State and Federal investigations conclude.
 
2014-01-27 11:46:12 AM

coeyagi: grumpfuff: coeyagi: s2s2s2: coeyagi: Whatever it is, it will be the first.

LOL

Yeah, they've really taken him down a peg in the eyes of the GOP faithful.
Which one of the scandals have they nailed him on, again?

A: 0

So, you're saying Bridgegate hasn't gone anywhere?  Those subpoenas are just figments of the media's imagination?

C'mon, dude, you're f*cking ignoring current events, not trying to do revisionist history on something that happened decades ago.

It's amusing. The Federal and State investigations haven't finished yet, therefore it means "HAHA YOU GOT NOTHING!"

It just means you can't say it has "gone nowhere".  Nowhere would mean NOTHING IS GOING ON.  I haven't said that this is the scandal that will sink him or ruin his presidential candidacy, I am just saying it is going far from nowhere.

Jesus, do you ever stop and reread your bullsh*t?


Um..what?

I agree with you and your response is to mock me?
 
2014-01-27 11:50:32 AM

grumpfuff: s2s2s2: coeyagi: So, you're saying Bridgegate hasn't gone anywhere?

So they found the smoking gun?

coeyagi: Those subpoenas are just figments of the media's imagination?

ZOMG! Subpeonas? Anything come of those, yet?

coeyagi: C'mon, dude, you're f*cking ignoring current events

How is knowing that the spaghetti isn't sticking to the wall "ignoring current events"?

Saying things like this do not cast you in a positive light. You should avoid making judgements about what will/will not stick until the State and Federal investigations conclude.


He's saying he has inside information, you wouldn't know it. It's from Canada.
 
2014-01-27 11:52:58 AM

neversubmit: A bet you would lose, but you must be used to that.


Way to play that hand. An opportunity to win a bet, and you just show your hand before the ante is in.

Perfect.

grumpfuff: You should avoid making judgements about what will/will not stick


I didn't say anything about will or won't. Remember, the context was "current events" not "future events".

coeyagi: The investigation is ongoing, therefore, it is not going nowhere.


I said it hasn't gotten there, yet, not that it was stalled. Neither of us know where it will end up.

grumpfuff: I agree with you and your response is to mock me?


He's probably not sure where he is. He definitely has no idea where I am.
 
2014-01-27 11:53:04 AM

BitwiseShift: nekom: You can't pump your own gas there.  What the hell is that all about?

Insurance. For a gas station it's cheaper to hire someone, probably trained in HazMat, than pay the extra insurance for your neighbor's Ford Exploder to spark an item on the news when he drops his cigarette trying to dial with one hand and hold the pump with the other.

Why NJ gas and diesel is so cheap, like South Texas cheap, is the real mystery..


Christie steered all the money from the train tunnel project he cancelled to the general fund in order to avoid raising the fuel tax.

Nobody in his admin could profit off of the tunnel, and we've all seen that profit motive is what drives the man.
 
2014-01-27 11:53:55 AM

s2s2s2: coeyagi: So, you're saying Bridgegate hasn't gone anywhere?

So they found the smoking gun?

coeyagi: Those subpoenas are just figments of the media's imagination?

ZOMG! Subpeonas? Anything come of those, yet?

coeyagi: C'mon, dude, you're f*cking ignoring current events

How is knowing that the spaghetti isn't sticking to the wall "ignoring current events"?


The first round of the media circus is over and almost nobody is talking about BridgeGateTM "scandal" now.

You might as well wait until the federal inquiry ends and fills the politics tab with greenlights of half-truths before claiming anything about Khristie Kream.
 
2014-01-27 12:00:20 PM

Lawnchair: I'm a big old lefty, but Jesus I can't imagine paying the property taxes some of my northern NJ relatives pay for boring not-particularly-high-value houses in blue-collar neighborhoods with middling schools.  Which ties back to the corruption, I guess.


Second time ITT someone claims NJ schools are "bad". But why? I lived in NJ for a while, and though I never attended public school there, I don't recall hearing anything above and beyond the standard complaints. Is this because Christie yelled at a teacher?

This list (USN&WR) has them at #11 nationwide (top quarter) because just under 14% of their schools are gold- or silver-medal winners.
The NEA (PDF warning) says NJ has the 4th-lowest ratio of students to teachers (12, meaning all but 3 states have more students for each teacher), 3rd-highest expenditures per student ($18,485), 7th-most K-12 teachers (113,250), 5th-highest average teacher salary ($66,612)...

So the kids do well, and so do the teachers. Seems like "NJ schools suck" is one of those things that everyone knows to be true, except it ain't.

// maybe the taxpayers hate that NJ spends so much on schools?
// except NJ is the most densely populated state in the country, so people (even those with kids) want to live there
// a conundrum...
 
2014-01-27 12:01:07 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Christie steered all the money from the train tunnel project he cancelled to the general fund in order to avoid raising the fuel tax.

Nobody in his admin could profit off of the tunnel, and we've all seen that profit motive is what drives the man.


shiat, I know a number of tunneling companies, as well as Eastern Concrete, would have paid him a huge f'ing bribe for that tunnel to come out for bid.
 
2014-01-27 12:07:13 PM

Dr Dreidel: Lawnchair: I'm a big old lefty, but Jesus I can't imagine paying the property taxes some of my northern NJ relatives pay for boring not-particularly-high-value houses in blue-collar neighborhoods with middling schools.  Which ties back to the corruption, I guess.

Second time ITT someone claims NJ schools are "bad". But why? I lived in NJ for a while, and though I never attended public school there, I don't recall hearing anything above and beyond the standard complaints. Is this because Christie yelled at a teacher?

This list (USN&WR) has them at #11 nationwide (top quarter) because just under 14% of their schools are gold- or silver-medal winners.
The NEA (PDF warning) says NJ has the 4th-lowest ratio of students to teachers (12, meaning all but 3 states have more students for each teacher), 3rd-highest expenditures per student ($18,485), 7th-most K-12 teachers (113,250), 5th-highest average teacher salary ($66,612)...

So the kids do well, and so do the teachers. Seems like "NJ schools suck" is one of those things that everyone knows to be true, except it ain't.

// maybe the taxpayers hate that NJ spends so much on schools?
// except NJ is the most densely populated state in the country, so people (even those with kids) want to live there
// a conundrum...


It's far easier to make up stuff about NJ or go "Ha ha it stinks there! You don't pump your own gas! Jersey Shore!" etc than to admit one is wrong and that NJ might not be such a bad place after all.
 
2014-01-27 12:09:02 PM

Dr Dreidel: // maybe the taxpayers hate that NJ spends so much on schools?


That's what it is, but the habit of spreading vitriol about teachers has lead many to believe that public education in NJ is bad. It isn't.
 
2014-01-27 12:10:57 PM

Dr Dreidel: Lawnchair: I'm a big old lefty, but Jesus I can't imagine paying the property taxes some of my northern NJ relatives pay for boring not-particularly-high-value houses in blue-collar neighborhoods with middling schools.  Which ties back to the corruption, I guess.

Second time ITT someone claims NJ schools are "bad". But why? I lived in NJ for a while, and though I never attended public school there, I don't recall hearing anything above and beyond the standard complaints. Is this because Christie yelled at a teacher?

This list (USN&WR) has them at #11 nationwide (top quarter) because just under 14% of their schools are gold- or silver-medal winners.
The NEA (PDF warning) says NJ has the 4th-lowest ratio of students to teachers (12, meaning all but 3 states have more students for each teacher), 3rd-highest expenditures per student ($18,485), 7th-most K-12 teachers (113,250), 5th-highest average teacher salary ($66,612)...

So the kids do well, and so do the teachers. Seems like "NJ schools suck" is one of those things that everyone knows to be true, except it ain't.

// maybe the taxpayers hate that NJ spends so much on schools?
// except NJ is the most densely populated state in the country, so people (even those with kids) want to live there
// a conundrum...


I've largely come to the conclusion that "NJ schools suck" is code for "The NJ teachers' union is too powerful".
 
2014-01-27 12:32:33 PM
TL;DNR.
 
2014-01-27 12:34:37 PM

Dr Dreidel: Second time ITT someone claims NJ schools are "bad". But why? I lived in NJ for a while, and though I never attended public school there, I don't recall hearing anything above and beyond the standard complaints. Is this because Christie yelled at a teacher?


Go back and re-read my post, please.  I didn't say that NJ schools are bad.  There are plenty of entirely awesome public schools, especially if you're in some of the richer parts of Hunterdon County or the tonier suburbs from Totowa west or the like.  Averaged out, they beat the pants of the averaged-out schools in my state.

I said that the schools in the particular case I had in mind (Kearny to be exact) were middlingly okay, and they are, and the taxes are insanely high for middling schools, and they are.  There are also quite a few utterly abysmal schools in the state.
 
2014-01-27 01:07:07 PM

Lawnchair: Dr Dreidel: Second time ITT someone claims NJ schools are "bad". But why? I lived in NJ for a while, and though I never attended public school there, I don't recall hearing anything above and beyond the standard complaints. Is this because Christie yelled at a teacher?

Go back and re-read my post, please.  I didn't say that NJ schools are bad.  There are plenty of entirely awesome public schools, especially if you're in some of the richer parts of Hunterdon County or the tonier suburbs from Totowa west or the like.  Averaged out, they beat the pants of the averaged-out schools in my state.

I said that the schools in the particular case I had in mind (Kearny to be exact) were middlingly okay, and they are, and the taxes are insanely high for middling schools, and they are.  There are also quite a few utterly abysmal schools in the state.


You get what you pay for. You want high-performing schools, you'd best be prepared to pay for them.

// I wish the GOP understood this for areas other than their own salaries
// the bonus is that many of these kids grow up to provide far more than ($18,485 x 4 =) $73,490 in revenue & benefits for NJ
 
2014-01-27 01:07:33 PM

coeyagi: C'mon, Mr. Potato, FFS, just acknowledge reality for once in your f*cking internet life.



No subpoenas target Christie himself
 
2014-01-27 01:11:12 PM

Ambivalence: It's shaped like an infected appendix (whereas Maryland is shaped like a healthy appendix).


And the next large hurricane is going to perform an appendectomy (or a bris.)

scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2014-01-27 01:27:00 PM

grumpfuff: It's far easier to make up stuff about NJ or go "Ha ha it stinks there! You don't pump your own gas! Jersey Shore!" etc than to admit one is wrong and that NJ might not be such a bad place after all.


No no no no no

New Jersey does stink. At least, those areas a person just passing through might be exposed to do. Think about it - you drive through Northern NJ on the Turnpike and what do you see? Refineries, Port Elizabeth, factories, train tracks, airport, etc. And the smell! Fly in to Newark Airport? Same deal. Take one of the few train lines that pass through? Again, same deal.  This is all intentional. As long as people who pass through continue to think it's a stinky industrial shiathole, they are far less likely to discover any of the areas that demonstrate why NJ is called the Garden State, and they'll happily go back to bumfark West Idaho and spread the news about how terrible it is.

tl;dr: Yes, please, stay out. It's a stinky shiathole full of Jersey Shore rejects and wall to wall refineries. Really, I promise - the entire state is like what you see from the Turnpike. ALL OF IT. STAY AWAY
 
2014-01-27 01:30:25 PM

Ctrl-Alt-Del: grumpfuff: It's far easier to make up stuff about NJ or go "Ha ha it stinks there! You don't pump your own gas! Jersey Shore!" etc than to admit one is wrong and that NJ might not be such a bad place after all.

No no no no no

New Jersey does stink. At least, those areas a person just passing through might be exposed to do. Think about it - you drive through Northern NJ on the Turnpike and what do you see? Refineries, Port Elizabeth, factories, train tracks, airport, etc. And the smell! Fly in to Newark Airport? Same deal. Take one of the few train lines that pass through? Again, same deal.  This is all intentional. As long as people who pass through continue to think it's a stinky industrial shiathole, they are far less likely to discover any of the areas that demonstrate why NJ is called the Garden State, and they'll happily go back to bumfark West Idaho and spread the news about how terrible it is.

tl;dr: Yes, please, stay out. It's a stinky shiathole full of Jersey Shore rejects and wall to wall refineries. Really, I promise - the entire state is like what you see from the Turnpike. ALL OF IT. STAY AWAY


You. I like you.
 
2014-01-27 01:32:20 PM
I really don't like pumping gas and view the full service thing as good. The rest of Jersey, still bad.
 
2014-01-27 01:36:55 PM

Dr Dreidel: // except NJ is the most densely populated state in the country, so people (even those with kids) want to live there


Nobody lives in Jersey anymore... it's too crowded.
 
2014-01-27 02:07:42 PM

s2s2s2: ckccfa: As a young gay woman, I am terrified of any viable republican candidate

You really shouldn't be. Equality is winning. It's an unfortunately hard road, but the destination is in view. Long overdue.


Really?  Why shouldn't I be?  Did NC not just add an extra super duper ban on gay marriage recently?  Isn't IN trying to right now?  Are these things not pushed by republicans?  Are the issues of my personal life (as a gay person) still not constant political fodder?  Did the latest GOP candidate for president not come out against gay marriage?  Did he not have to pause and think about it when asked about things like hospital visitation?  Are republicans no longer campaigning on restricting my rights?  Equality is starting to win, but we're still a damn long way from won.
There are still 29 states where you can be fired from your job or evicted from housing for being gay.  There are still 33 states where you cannot get married and your marriage will not be recognized.  There still are no strong, legislative protections for gay people on the federal level, and there won't be as long as republicans hold a majority in the House.  So why should I not fear republican leadership?  What reason would I have not to?

ckccfa: As a married gay person, many of the federal rights and recognitions I currently enjoy are at the whim and discretion of the executive branch.

s2s2s2: We definitely need to shrink the government's role in how we live our personal lives.


Yes, we do, and I have seen nothing from the republican party on this issue, ever, that would indicate that they will get out of my personal life.  Instead, as both a female and a queer, they seem unduly interested in regulating me--as a human and a citizen.

ckccfa: So I, personally, am very glad that Christie's presidential ambitions have taken a hit.

s2s2s2: ...among people that wouldn't have voted for him in the first place. This is making him look better, to the GOP. It's a dangerous game.


I get the sense that a solid portion of the conservative base hates him--he's too "liberal", too east coast, too jersey, and he acted like a normal human being when the president came to visit during the hurricane.  If anything, this "scandal" makes him vulnerable to attacks from the right--"here's another establishment new england republican, abusing and expanding the government, we need a real conservative who believes in real freedom and less interference, etc."

ckccfa: Remember that he vetoed marriage equality and thought it should have been put to majority vote.

s2s2s2: He also backed down. Isn't equal marriage is legal in NJ, now?


Oh my god, you're right.  Backing down on the issue after fighting against it and actively blocking it and making public statements against it for years makes everything fine now.  He's a totally cool guy, and we can totes trust him now.
He played a political game with people's rights--he blocked it and spoke against it (and again, treated civil rights like a popularity contest) when and where he could to bolster his conservative credentials, and when it finally made it to the judicial branch he laid down his arms so he could appear more moderate for a national campaign.  Meanwhile, gay people in NJ suffered real and material harm.

I am having internet issues with my provider, right now, so I cant get a link, but last I heard, his second biggest error in the eyes of the GOP was backing down on the marriage ban.

So again, if this is his second biggest error in the eyes of the GOP, why shouldn't I continue to fear them?  If expanding equality before the law to include gay people is so odious to one political party that they consider it a "mistake" to make any gesture towards it, isn't my fear valid?  I feared Christie because he appeared more moderate, and I figured that he had a good chance with the general public in a national election.  And if he won, he was going to surround himself with staff and lawmakers from his party, which still has hating gay people as a key platform.

Even if Christie has moderated himself on the issue, the rest of the party hasn't, and they haven't given up the fight yet.   The tide may be turning in our favor, but in the meantime there's still a lot of bad shiat that could happen legislatively, GOP lawmakers seem generally determined to kick up whatever fuss they can, and there's a whole lot of laws we need passed to ensure our civic equality and safety.  Laws the GOP tries to block at every turn.  So excuse me if I'm feeling apprehensive while my rights are still up in the air.
 
2014-01-27 02:21:09 PM

ckccfa: why shouldn't I continue to fear them?


Fear is a waste of your time, and a weakness to be exploited by others.

www.thinklikeahorse.org

Recognizing the evil of the Republican party shouldn't require fear.

As for the rest of your response, I have no argument with your politics.
 
2014-01-27 02:49:20 PM

s2s2s2: ckccfa: why shouldn't I continue to fear them?

Fear is a waste of your time, and a weakness to be exploited by others.

[www.thinklikeahorse.org image 400x200]

Recognizing the evil of the Republican party shouldn't require fear.

As for the rest of your response, I have no argument with your politics.


Seriously, you're going with some zen bullshiat and a yoda picture?  What the fark are you even trying to say?  That I shouldn't be afraid that one of the two parties in our political system would try to strip me of or block every single legal protection that I, as a gay person, need to freely live and work in every part of the country?  That I shouldn't worry that my current rights and protections are due to a fairly small margin?  (54% of Americans now claim to be in favor of gay marriage, but that means 46% don't, and surveys don't often match voting; the popular presidential vote was 53-47.)  That I don't need to keep this in mind and work against the GOP gaining any further power to fark me?

Good for you, I guess, that you don't have to deal with this kind of stress--with being a second class citizen before the law and limited in where you can safely live and work--but why the fark do you feel the need to diminish the very valid anxiety most gay people still feel about their rights and lives?  What point are you trying to make, or what are you trying to prove?
 
2014-01-27 02:58:30 PM

ckccfa: but why the fark do you feel the need to diminish the very valid anxiety most gay people still feel about their rights and lives?


I don't seek to invalidate your reasons for fear. Your logic via the GOP is more than sound. You are right, as a person who is primarily heteronorm, I don't face the same difficulties you face. I still won't recommend fear. Though the GOP make great use of it, as it is the best way to rally the simple to action.
 
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