redmid17: Jesus. I didn't even say rampage. You farkers keep moving my goalposts and I have to reset them
sjcousins: It certainly doesn't justify shooting out a keystone species by the "animals are mean therefore environmentalism is stupid" crowd./ecologist//environmentalist///hates people a little bit more now.
mamoru: Tatterdemalian: it all amounts to a wasteful instinct to kill as much as they physically can until they're literally too tired to kill any more,Really? Then why do most predators stop the moment they have taken down prey and start consuming them rather than continuing the hunt? Especially when looking at predators (like lions, for example) living and hunting in areas with relatively high prey density? Leaving downed prey to continue killing everything they can runs the risk of losing the downed prey to scavengers and other opportunists, turning it into wasted energy, which flies completely in the face of Optimal Foraging Theory.Please provide specific examples that show that predatory behavior is a wasteful instinct to kill as much as possible instead of an evolutionarily optimized instinct to maximize energy return (food) for energy spent (hunting), because as a biologist, I find your bald assertion difficult to believe.
HeadLever: redmid17: Surplus killing by predators doesn't exclude wolves.Wolves are usually the best at surplus killing.
tlars699: Aside from humans, that is.
tlars699: Serious question: At what point would it be problematic to introduce wolves to a humongous deer population, with large concentrations of humans?Following population cycles starting with a huge deer population:Huge Deer; Small wolvesHuge Deer; Bigger wolves, following a parabolic increaseLarge Deer; Large wolves
HeadLever: The wolf people problem is real in Idaho,
HeadLever: The issue of this area is not too few wolves
2wolves: The wolf people problem is real in Idaho,
HeadLever: 2wolves: The wolf people problem is real in Idaho,
jigger: How do they decide the "right" number of wolves and elk?
redmid17: Biologists have been studying Isle Royale for a long time to figure this kind of stuff out.
HeadLever: redmid17: Biologists have been studying Isle Royale for a long time to figure this kind of stuff out.Yeah for areas like Isle Royale, this is applicable. However, the issues in most other places have many more stakeholders that move this dynamic from what nature typically does, to a man-made goal based upon what is 'best for all'.
HeadLever: You have been proven wrong on this multiple times, but still spout the lies. This tells me that your arguments are not in the context of any intellectual honesty, but are instead driven by an agenda.
wutchamacallem: Excellent marketing agenda by the rancher.Receive a more than fair price without all the transportation bother.
HeadLever: And they were not given more than 'fair price'. Not sure were you are getting that talking point from.
wutchamacallem: I was in the business.
HeadLever: Of giving ranchers more than fair market price for their livestock? Do you have a business card?
wutchamacallem: Most of the sheep I bought were from your our wolf territories. Maybe I bought some of yours.
redmid17: . Also for your insurgency group, make sure you bring a lot of rifle cleaning supplies. Any ammo you're going to fire through the Mosin-Nagant is going to be incredibly corrosive.
HeadLever: Assuming that you are involved with DoW, then you have been paying fair market value. Also don't forget that not all wolf depredations can be confirmed with a necropsy. When all that is left is some hide and a eartag, no one is going to be able to confirm that it was a wolf kill.
wutchamacallem: I only bought live animals. They were considered culls by the ranchers but in their new home in Illinois eating alfalfa and corn they were lamb rearing for a few more years.
Poowaddins: Kentucky doesn't have anything on the redneck retards of Idaho.
parahaps: They want more things to shoot.
Jim_Callahan: Ten bloody goats dead from heart attacks.
Ishidan: once you're in hunt mode it's hard to stop. Just like a human at a buffet table for the first time.
cherryl taggart: I thought elk were some kind of vector for a prion disease like mad cow. If that's accurate, why would anyone want to hunt it? Dang, now I have to go do actual research before my fifth coffee.
cryinoutloud: Wildlife management is not about trying to restore an ecosystem, or to keep any kind of balance, anymore. It probably never was. it's about managing the humans who want to use and look at the wildlife. And no matter what you do, somebody is not going to be happy.
cryinoutloud: sjcousins:Any biologist will tell you that predators only care about rendering as much mobile food non-mobile as they can. It's been called various names, "food caching," "scavenger feeding," but it all amounts to a wasteful instinct to kill as much as they physically can until they're literally too tired to kill any more, something environmentalists would rather shiat the bed and fling the poo than understand.This biologist is telling you that you just made that up. Never heard of it.
cryinoutloud: guard llamas
The One True TheDavid: That really is a thing. I looked it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guard_llama
HeadLever: The One True TheDavid: That really is a thing. I looked it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guard_llamaLlamas work pretty well for coyotes.With respect to wolves, llamas are llunch.
HindiDiscoMonster: My God, what would nature do without mankind to step in and save it?
The One True TheDavid: Why not have a human guard or two, along with dogs & llamas?
HeadLever: The One True TheDavid: Why not have a human guard or two, along with dogs & llamas?Many ranchers do just that. Dogs and llamas are great for coyotes but are not really effective against a pack of wolves and end up just as dead as the livestock. Human guards are the best, but they cannot be everywhere at once.
Tatterdemalian: unless you get illegal immigrants to do it//they usually know more about wildlife than actual citizens, apparently including some biologists, and they won't go running to the police under any circumstances short of refusing to pay them a few dollars a month///as long as you're flouting immigration law, might as well flout minimum wage laws too
HeadLever: Human guards are the best, but they cannot be everywhere at once.
wutchamacallem: Of course they can if the rancher gets enough help. To choose not to is an economic decision by the rancher. To solve the problem by exterminating the wolves clearly does not invoke the sympathy of the majority who paid for the wolves and own most of this land.
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