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(Orlando Sentinel)   Fewer teenagers in Florida are hurrying out to get their driver's licenses, as they are terrified to share the road with elderly folks desperately searching for a farmer's market   (orlandosentinel.com) divider line 87
    More: Florida, Florida Department of Highway Safety, Department of Highways, driver's licenses, Rollins College, urban areas  
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3231 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jan 2014 at 8:24 PM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



87 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-26 08:26:40 PM
And the article mentions how expensive it is.  The only way I was able to drive as a teenager was working and teenagers can't get jobs unless they have connections.
 
2014-01-26 08:27:35 PM
It's not just Florida. Most teens these days would prefer a smartphone over a car.
 
2014-01-26 08:28:14 PM
"Young folks would rather spend their money on an iPhone than a car,"

I guess I could read TFA

*sigh*
 
2014-01-26 08:30:57 PM
When I used to live outside of Orlando, can't tell you how many times I've come over a hill, and almost fly up the bum of a geezer going about 30 in a 55 zone.
 
2014-01-26 08:31:52 PM
One hour of minimum wage when I was a teenager bought 4 gallons of gas.
One hour of minimum wage today buys maybe 2 gallons of gas.

Good thing cars are twice as fuel-efficient now or I'd have a point. :)
 
2014-01-26 08:32:59 PM

Ex-Texan: When I used to live outside of Orlando, can't tell you how many times I've come over a hill, and almost fly up the bum of a geezer going about 30 in a 55 zone.


hills and geezer bums in Fla?
 
2014-01-26 08:35:32 PM

neofonz: One hour of minimum wage when I was a teenager bought 4 gallons of gas.
One hour of minimum wage today buys maybe 2 gallons of gas.

Good thing cars are twice as fuel-efficient now or I'd have a point. :)


Wanna feel old?

One hour of minimum wage when I was a teenager would fill your tank.

My first real job made something like $2.50 an hour, and I was driving my stepfather's Mazda. Of course, gas hadn't cracked .75 a gallon then....
 
2014-01-26 08:38:17 PM
Not just Florida, know several young folks in their early 20s who don't have their licenses and not too interested in getting them. There will come a time the older folks won't be able to drive them anymore, best learn before it gets too late.
Not everyone lives in an area with public transit.
 
2014-01-26 08:39:09 PM
It's not just teens.  People in their 30's are giving up car ownership and moving into the cities, utilizing public transportation and car-share programs.  I've always said, any company that builds efficient public transport for cities would turn a 500K% profit in 20 years, if they were willing to wait that long.
 
2014-01-26 08:39:10 PM
Might it be that teenagers, like many other people here in Florida, simply drive without a license?  At least one-third of the drivers I encounter could not have passed the test.
 
2014-01-26 08:41:50 PM
From TFA: Three decades ago, nearly half of 16-year-olds had a drivers license, but by 2008 that number had dropped to fewer than a third

I would be real interested to know if these percentages have the same trend for teenage employment as well. If so, that could certainly help to explain the trend... no money to pay for it, but also no compelling reason to get a driver's license.
 
2014-01-26 08:42:37 PM

neofonz: One hour of minimum wage when I was a teenager bought 4 gallons of gas.
One hour of minimum wage today buys maybe 2 gallons of gas.

Good thing cars are twice as fuel-efficient now or I'd have a point. :)



Yeah, my old 71 Chevy pick-up from high school (1985-1987) got about 11 mpg.  It's not like I was driving all that far though.

If I recall, gas was about a buck a gallon and I was making about 5 or 6 bucks an hour (working 15 hrs/wk).

My parents were nice enough to pay my insurance (something that strangely got zero mention in TFA) so maintenance, gas, weed beer and fast food were my only real expenses at the time.


FTAThe dangers of driving in an urban environment are a key reason why Tevin Hudson's mom, Jetty Mitchell, urged her 19-year-old son to wait on getting a license.

A boys best friend is his mother.
 
2014-01-26 08:43:29 PM
Car= vagina in hs
 
2014-01-26 08:45:49 PM
I'm ok with teens waiting to learn how to drive.  One thing that makes teen drivers dangerous is inexperience - that inexperience will just be carried over to older folks.  But immaturity is also part of problem, and that (presumably) will not be carried over.
 
2014-01-26 08:47:08 PM

Gyrfalcon: neofonz: One hour of minimum wage when I was a teenager bought 4 gallons of gas.
One hour of minimum wage today buys maybe 2 gallons of gas.

Good thing cars are twice as fuel-efficient now or I'd have a point. :)

Wanna feel old?

One hour of minimum wage when I was a teenager would fill your tank.

My first real job made something like $2.50 an hour, and I was driving my stepfather's Mazda. Of course, gas hadn't cracked .75 a gallon then....


I question the veracity of your claim.
 
2014-01-26 08:49:37 PM
Farmer's market, huh?  Of all the Jay Lenos in the world, you're the Jay Lenoest.
 
2014-01-26 08:50:18 PM
A few years ago working parents had more disposable income and could pay out the cost of insurance +a car +gas.

In our area, far less teens are driving.   Costs too much.
And there is not much money in their  pockets....so where are they going to go anyways.
 
2014-01-26 08:53:03 PM
I waited a year or two to get my license.

When the girlfriend left me and said it was for a guy who could drive I went out and got my starters that summer.
 
2014-01-26 08:53:27 PM

TomD9938: neofonz: One hour of minimum wage when I was a teenager bought 4 gallons of gas.
One hour of minimum wage today buys maybe 2 gallons of gas.

Good thing cars are twice as fuel-efficient now or I'd have a point. :)


Yeah, my old 71 Chevy pick-up from high school (1985-1987) got about 11 mpg.  It's not like I was driving all that far though.

If I recall, gas was about a buck a gallon and I was making about 5 or 6 bucks an hour (working 15 hrs/wk).

My parents were nice enough to pay my insurance (something that strangely got zero mention in TFA) so maintenance, gas, weed beer and fast food were my only real expenses at the time.


FTA :  The dangers of driving in an urban environment are a key reason why Tevin Hudson's mom, Jetty Mitchell, urged her 19-year-old son to wait on getting a license.

A boys best friend is his mother.


Weed beer? sounds gross.
 
2014-01-26 08:54:17 PM
I don't think I can agree, it seems walking through FL neighborhoods is more dangerous.

/I didn't get my license till I was nearly 19, after I had a job for awhile to pay for it.
//I had to pay every dime, including the insurance increase on my parents' policy
 
2014-01-26 08:56:31 PM
Kids are competing for jobs with the emerging underclass in this country, and they'd rather just be driven around if they can help it anyway.   A min wage job never covered a car payment, insurance, and fuel anyway, but it does build character.

Back in the day (as late as the 80s) kids would participate in the harvest, even if it meant taking a week or two off school.  The money this kids made was very important for them and their community on many levels.


Ah, it's funny to hear each generation rag on the other.
 
2014-01-26 08:57:36 PM
The article omits another factor that could be discouraging teenagers: the increasingly onerous restrictions on driver's licenses for those under 18. I don't know offhand if Florida does this sort of thing, but in Illinois a driver under 18, for the first year of driving, is restricted to one passenger under 20 (except for immediate family). There is also a 10PM-6AM curfew Sunday-Thursday, with 11PM Friday and Saturday. There are plenty of other restrictions that weren't around when I was a teenager, as well. I'm sure that curbs the kids' enthusiasm for going out and getting a license, even if it does reduce the body count.
 
2014-01-26 08:58:17 PM

fusillade762: It's not just Florida. Most teens these days would prefer a smartphone over a car.


Smartphones are considerably cheaper, for a start.
 
2014-01-26 08:59:10 PM

Kurmudgeon: Not everyone lives in an area with public transit.


They're moving into cities with public transit rather than the Deer Oaks Festival at Silver Chase subdivision. This is freaking out companies that are finding that in order to attract younger talent, they can't get cheap office space in some field and expect employees to buy into a long commute in an expensive to maintain automobile.
 
2014-01-26 09:00:02 PM

drunk_bouncnbaloruber: I've always said, any company that builds efficient public transport for cities would turn a 500K% profit in 20 years, if they were willing to wait that long.


They tried that already, but our friendly neighborhood corporate overlords put the kibosh on it.
 
2014-01-26 09:00:03 PM

Morgellons: Weed beer? sounds gross.



It kind of was.

thumbs4.ebaystatic.com
 
2014-01-26 09:00:11 PM

Boo_Guy: I waited a year or two to get my license.

When the girlfriend left me and said it was for a guy who could drive I went out and got my starters that summer.


Teenagers (males especially) will start getting their licenses when they realize how hard it is to get laid when mom and dad are driving them everywhere.
 
2014-01-26 09:03:08 PM
Y'all are slipping.

wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net
 
2014-01-26 09:05:46 PM

LoneWolf343: fusillade762: It's not just Florida. Most teens these days would prefer a smartphone over a car.

Smartphones are considerably cheaper, for a start.


Not to mention a smartphone is as important to ones social life as having a car was back in the day.
 
2014-01-26 09:07:48 PM

neofonz: One hour of minimum wage when I was a teenager bought 4 gallons of gas.
One hour of minimum wage today buys maybe 2 gallons of gas.

Good thing cars are twice as fuel-efficient now or I'd have a point. :)


Two hours at minimum wage when I was a teen bought you a whole tank.
When I came to the state where I'm living now gas was $0.84/gallon. I thought I was being robbed, as I had just moved from a state where it was less than $0.70/gallon.
/mowing his lawn
 
2014-01-26 09:08:24 PM

rev. dave: And the article mentions how expensive it is.  The only way I was able to drive as a teenager was working and teenagers can't get jobs unless they have connections.


And even if they could get jobs, they still cant afford gas and insurance, much less a car, on part time minimum wage.
 
2014-01-26 09:11:38 PM
Learning to drive in Florida was terrifying. Between the old people driving really slow and the Cubans not following the signs it was like everyone on the road was trying to murder you. Top it off with learning on a stick and I'm amazed I survived.
 
2014-01-26 09:17:30 PM
Scaredy cats. I had to learn to drive on the same roads with old folks as now.

Except there are a lot more roads ... and cars ... and elderly drivers now.
 
2014-01-26 09:21:42 PM

Fubegra: The article omits another factor that could be discouraging teenagers: the increasingly onerous restrictions on driver's licenses for those under 18. I don't know offhand if Florida does this sort of thing, but in Illinois a driver under 18, for the first year of driving, is restricted to one passenger under 20 (except for immediate family). There is also a 10PM-6AM curfew Sunday-Thursday, with 11PM Friday and Saturday. There are plenty of other restrictions that weren't around when I was a teenager, as well. I'm sure that curbs the kids' enthusiasm for going out and getting a license, even if it does reduce the body count.


Yeah the goofy passenger/curfew/distance from home type restrictions would make me have less of a hard on for my license if I was just turning 16
 
2014-01-26 09:26:24 PM

baconbeard: Gyrfalcon: neofonz: One hour of minimum wage when I was a teenager bought 4 gallons of gas.
One hour of minimum wage today buys maybe 2 gallons of gas.

Good thing cars are twice as fuel-efficient now or I'd have a point. :)

Wanna feel old?

One hour of minimum wage when I was a teenager would fill your tank.

My first real job made something like $2.50 an hour, and I was driving my stepfather's Mazda. Of course, gas hadn't cracked .75 a gallon then....

I question the veracity of your claim.


Hm, lessee...

Well, according to a 10 second search on Google, the average price of gas in 1978 was about .63 a gallon. I can't be 100% sure of what I really made back at the library, although it wasn't more than $2.50 an hour, and assuming the Mazda had a 10-gallon tank, which may also be wrong, then it would take $1.63 to fill it. That would fill the tank nicely.

So yeah.
 
2014-01-26 09:26:29 PM

drunk_bouncnbaloruber: It's not just teens.  People in their 30's are giving up car ownership and moving into the cities, utilizing public transportation and car-share programs.  I've always said, any company that builds efficient public transport for cities would turn a 500K% profit in 20 years, if they were willing to wait that long.


I'm one of those.

I could either fark around in rush hour traffic and have a job in the 'burbs with a long commute, pay for core city parking, or take the bus or bike.

Taking the bus is cheaper than driving, and taking the bike is healthier.

I'm in my 30s, but still young enough to not be wedded to the idea of driving.  For the grey-haired crowd, a lot of them can't understand being car-lite or car-free.  It's the world they grew up in - driving was a lot cheaper, traffic wasn't so bad, etc.  But I think the younger generation is shifting their thinking, to the point where I'd be worried to make a future in a large city without decent public transportation.
 
2014-01-26 09:29:10 PM
Cars are expensive. Insurance is expensive. Parents can't afford to pay for their child's car/insurance. Child doesn't have enough money to buy a car and get job to pay for a car. If if said child could get a job, it wouldn't pay enough to support their driving habit anyway
/Life's a biatch
 
2014-01-26 09:29:56 PM

Gyrfalcon: baconbeard: Gyrfalcon: neofonz: One hour of minimum wage when I was a teenager bought 4 gallons of gas.
One hour of minimum wage today buys maybe 2 gallons of gas.

Good thing cars are twice as fuel-efficient now or I'd have a point. :)

Wanna feel old?

One hour of minimum wage when I was a teenager would fill your tank.

My first real job made something like $2.50 an hour, and I was driving my stepfather's Mazda. Of course, gas hadn't cracked .75 a gallon then....

I question the veracity of your claim.

Hm, lessee...

Well, according to a 10 second search on Google, the average price of gas in 1978 was about .63 a gallon. I can't be 100% sure of what I really made back at the library, although it wasn't more than $2.50 an hour, and assuming the Mazda had a 10-gallon tank, which may also be wrong, then it would take $1.63 to fill it. That would fill the tank nicely.

So yeah.


Or, okay, my math is way off. It would take $6.30 to fill the tank, or at my wages a little more than two hours work. Either way, that's massively depressing to think about, considering that it takes more than $45 dollars to fill my Toyota nowadays, or about twice as much at my current wages.
 
2014-01-26 09:31:32 PM
The problem is that todays young folks are lazy-ass dead beats.  Cars have always been quite expensive but when I was 16, in the early 80s, I managed to cover my own gas plus still have plenty of money left over to buy beer and go on dates, etc..  I did this amazing thing that apparently none of todays young folks have heard of.  I went to work, about 10 hrs a day each Sat and Sun.  I also didn't expect to drive the newest car.  I had a well worn early 70s Pinto.  I realize all the snowflakes today expect to have a brand new 25k car but I settled for less.  The parents did help some by covering insurance and car repairs but to be honest I probably could have covered those too, even though I was only making $10/hr, if I did not spend so much on beer and pussy.
 
2014-01-26 09:31:59 PM

Gyrfalcon: the average price of gas in 1978 was about .63 a gallon... and assuming the Mazda had a 10-gallon tank, which may also be wrong, then it would take $1.63 to fill it.


So long as there was already a bit more than 7 gallons in the tank, yeah.
 
2014-01-26 09:35:51 PM

Ex-Texan: When I used to live outside of Orlando, can't tell you how many times I've come over a hill, and almost fly up the bum of a geezer going about 30 in a 55 zone.


Ooohhhh  Kinky
 
2014-01-26 09:36:56 PM

Gyrfalcon: okay, my math is way off.


Never mind.
 
2014-01-26 09:42:34 PM
A side effect of the Bush destruction of the economy that 0bama can't fix with you know who obstructing is that the younger generation middle class has given up on not only home ownership, but even car ownership. Sure some are doing well, but the huge middle class? We're sunk if they can't even afford cars after college.
 
2014-01-26 09:45:17 PM

litespeed74: Ex-Texan: When I used to live outside of Orlando, can't tell you how many times I've come over a hill, and almost fly up the bum of a geezer going about 30 in a 55 zone.

Ooohhhh  Kinky


He must have had a Chevy Astroglide.
 
2014-01-26 09:46:26 PM
wow a farmers market joke!  How cutting edge!!
 
2014-01-26 09:49:36 PM

Doom MD: Car= vagina in hs


This.  I didn't really bother with "dating" until I had my license and a set of wheels.  I'm all for public transportation but you can't exactly take the bus to that out of the way bang spot...
 
2014-01-26 09:56:00 PM

Fubegra: The article omits another factor that could be discouraging teenagers: the increasingly onerous restrictions on driver's licenses for those under 18. I don't know offhand if Florida does this sort of thing, but in Illinois a driver under 18, for the first year of driving, is restricted to one passenger under 20 (except for immediate family). There is also a 10PM-6AM curfew Sunday-Thursday, with 11PM Friday and Saturday. There are plenty of other restrictions that weren't around when I was a teenager, as well. I'm sure that curbs the kids' enthusiasm for going out and getting a license, even if it does reduce the body count.


No kidding, and those restrictions have been around for awhile. I waited until 19 for mine, due to expense and the crazy restrictions on the under 18 crowd. Can't drive after 9pm, limited passenger carry, blah blah blah. Fark that noise, I had no restrictions when I got mine.
 
2014-01-26 10:07:12 PM
I had two reasons to get my license and a beater car when I turned 16: a job and LAN parties.  My son will be 16 in two years, and he's on the fence, mostly because he won't be able to find a job and internet connectivity is so much better these days rendering LAN parties more or less obsolete
 
2014-01-26 10:09:58 PM

rewind2846: Two hours at minimum wage when I was a teen bought you a whole tank.
When I came to the state where I'm living now gas was $0.84/gallon. I thought I was being robbed, as I had just moved from a state where it was less than $0.70/gallon.
/mowing his lawn


I'm not even 30 yet, and I can remember putting gas in my tank when it was $1/gallon. My first car was an old Accord. I could drive for a long time on $5.
 
2014-01-26 10:30:48 PM

neofonz: One hour of minimum wage when I was a teenager bought 4 gallons of gas.
One hour of minimum wage today buys maybe 2 gallons of gas.

Good thing cars are twice as fuel-efficient now or I'd have a point. :)


When I was a teenager minimum wage was $5.15 and gas was about 90 cents.  Plenty of cars from that time (late 90s) are still on the road.  I'd say you do have a point.
 
2014-01-26 10:39:27 PM

drunk_bouncnbaloruber: It's not just teens.  People in their 30's are giving up car ownership and moving into the cities, utilizing public transportation and car-share programs.



That's us.  We're in our mid-30s, make over $100,000+ year, have two perfectly operable cars---mine's a Lexus, no less---and we still take public transportation to work.

Driving is a pain in the arse.  Why do it if you don't have to?
 
2014-01-26 10:42:33 PM
Jesus christ, sometimes the FL hatred on this site gets old. I grew up in Boca Raton, the goddamn retirement center for NY and New England. Having lived in NC for 7 years now, I can say without a doubt that the drivers here in NC are worse. FAR worse. Goddamned worthless moron hillbillies who think their lifted, pollution-belching bro truck is the most important thing on the road. You're smaller than I am, get out of my way. What a turn signal? Is that some Obama-llama Soviet Nazi invention?

I want gas to go up to $15/gal so these stupid farkers can't afford to drive anymore. We'll see who has the last laugh.
 
2014-01-26 10:44:28 PM
Kurmudgeon:
Not everyone lives in an area with public transit.

Not "all", perhaps, but many (most?) do:

According to...the U.S. Census Bureau, 80.7% of the U.S. population lived in urban areas as of the 2010 Census.
 
2014-01-26 10:53:13 PM

Ima4nic8or: The problem is that todays young folks are lazy-ass dead beats.  Cars have always been quite expensive but when I was 16, in the early 80s, I managed to cover my own gas plus still have plenty of money left over to buy beer and go on dates, etc..  I did this amazing thing that apparently none of todays young folks have heard of.  I went to work, about 10 hrs a day each Sat and Sun.  I also didn't expect to drive the newest car.  I had a well worn early 70s Pinto.  I realize all the snowflakes today expect to have a brand new 25k car but I settled for less.  The parents did help some by covering insurance and car repairs but to be honest I probably could have covered those too, even though I was only making $10/hr, if I did not spend so much on beer and pussy.


I'll agree...to a certain point.  There are a fair amount of folks out of their teens fighting for more work hours.  They won't call out sick just because they don't feel like working, can keep their phones in their pocket for more than five minutes at a time, and they (often) can speak in more than grunts.  However, it does kill me to drive past the local school and see some awfully nice vehicles in the student lot.
 
2014-01-26 10:55:24 PM
It is another sign of our shrinking consumer base. Businesses should be very worried about this stagnant economy, because it is going to bite them in the ass for years to come.
 
2014-01-26 11:00:02 PM

FizixJunkee: Kurmudgeon:
Not everyone lives in an area with public transit.

Not "all", perhaps, but many (most?) do:

According to...the U.S. Census Bureau, 80.7% of the U.S. population lived in urban areas as of the 2010 Census.


Not every urban area has good public transport.  The Greater Los Angeles Area is one of the most populous biggest urban areas in the US(if not the most populous and biggest) and city to city public transport is convoluted at best in most cases.
 
2014-01-26 11:01:57 PM
Here's one of them there "senior moments".

/chant with me
//get our old, off the road!  get our old, off the road!
 
2014-01-26 11:08:43 PM

Alexei Novikov: Jesus christ, sometimes the FL hatred on this site gets old. I grew up in Boca Raton, the goddamn retirement center for NY and New England. Having lived in NC for 7 years now, I can say without a doubt that the drivers here in NC are worse. FAR worse. Goddamned worthless moron hillbillies who think their lifted, pollution-belching bro truck is the most important thing on the road. You're smaller than I am, get out of my way. What a turn signal? Is that some Obama-llama Soviet Nazi invention?

I want gas to go up to $15/gal so these stupid farkers can't afford to drive anymore. We'll see who has the last laugh.


Oh, there's a plethora of those trucks around here as well.  All with "FLO GROWN" and "FLORIDA CRACKER" stickers in the back window.  The latest thing is to stick some poles in the far back camper tie-down slots and fly some big ol' Rebel Flags off of them.  Oh, and everyone around here seems to be getting their diesels chipped so the belch big clouds of black smoke everytime you touch the accelerator.  I saw one the other day like that with a sticker that said "Mind if I smoke?".

And Florida seems to have the corner on people who bust just-turned-red red lights.  I don't go through an intersection until I've paused at least 2 seconds after the light turns green.
 
2014-01-26 11:23:34 PM

Ima4nic8or: The problem is that todays young folks are lazy-ass dead beats.  Cars have always been quite expensive but when I was 16, in the early 80s, I managed to cover my own gas plus still have plenty of money left over to buy beer and go on dates, etc..  I did this amazing thing that apparently none of todays young folks have heard of.  I went to work, about 10 hrs a day each Sat and Sun.  I also didn't expect to drive the newest car.  I had a well worn early 70s Pinto.  I realize all the snowflakes today expect to have a brand new 25k car but I settled for less.  The parents did help some by covering insurance and car repairs but to be honest I probably could have covered those too, even though I was only making $10/hr, if I did not spend so much on beer and pussy.


That's a damn good wage for the early 1980's....
 
2014-01-26 11:56:13 PM
Driving in Florida is as safe as hitchhiking in Detroit.
 
2014-01-27 12:15:07 AM

bhcompy: Not every urban area has good public transport.  The Greater Los Angeles Area is one of the most populous biggest urban areas in the US(if not the most populous and biggest) and city to city public transport is convoluted at best in most cases.


Until this most recent summer, we lived in Los Angeles.  We had no problem with public transit.  Of course, we lived on the West Side and most often rode this:

dailybruin.com
 
2014-01-27 12:41:33 AM

FizixJunkee: Kurmudgeon:
Not everyone lives in an area with public transit.

Not "all", perhaps, but many (most?) do:

According to...the U.S. Census Bureau, 80.7% of the U.S. population lived in urban areas as of the 2010 Census.


"Public Transit" means sh*t-all in places like southern California, and even less in other places even more remote. As an example - I drive to work each day, 46 miles round trip, takes about 22 minutes each way when traffic is good. To make the same trip on what is jokingly called "public transit" would take 4 hours and 22 minutes, one way, plus wait time at transit stops and assuming no traffic problems. This includes a 15 mile trip in the opposite direction because of the way the two systems I would need to use to make the trip link up.

So to get to work and back would take longer than I would actually spend at my workplace, even when you add in a half hour lunch break. The US Census Bureau statistics don't even begin to tell the sordid story of how farked the public transit systems of this country really are.
 
2014-01-27 12:51:05 AM
I may be old, but the farmers market joke is even older than I. Decrepit, crusty, and ancient is it.
 
2014-01-27 12:54:41 AM

FizixJunkee: bhcompy: Not every urban area has good public transport.  The Greater Los Angeles Area is one of the most populous biggest urban areas in the US(if not the most populous and biggest) and city to city public transport is convoluted at best in most cases.

Until this most recent summer, we lived in Los Angeles.  We had no problem with public transit.  Of course, we lived on the West Side and most often rode this:

[dailybruin.com image 850x621]


the west side is a very small part of the overall metro area.  It's also the same area full of nimbys that are resistant to allow light rail infrastructure because they fear it will mess with their property values
 
2014-01-27 12:58:53 AM

Ima4nic8or: The problem is that todays young folks are lazy-ass dead beats. Cars have always been quite expensive but when I was 16, in the early 80s, I managed to cover my own gas plus still have plenty of money left over to buy beer and go on dates, etc.. I did this amazing thing that apparently none of todays young folks have heard of. I went to work, about 10 hrs a day each Sat and Sun. I also didn't expect to drive the newest car. I had a well worn early 70s Pinto. I realize all the snowflakes today expect to have a brand new 25k car but I settled for less. The parents did help some by covering insurance and car repairs but to be honest I probably could have covered those too, even though I was only making $10/hr, if I did not spend so much on beer and pussy.


$10/hr in the early 80s is a hell of a lot more than minimum wage in 2014, sparky.
 
2014-01-27 01:06:43 AM

rewind2846: FizixJunkee: Kurmudgeon:
Not everyone lives in an area with public transit.

Not "all", perhaps, but many (most?) do:

According to...the U.S. Census Bureau, 80.7% of the U.S. population lived in urban areas as of the 2010 Census.

"Public Transit" means sh*t-all in places like southern California, and even less in other places even more remote. As an example - I drive to work each day, 46 miles round trip, takes about 22 minutes each way when traffic is good. To make the same trip on what is jokingly called "public transit" would take 4 hours and 22 minutes, one way, plus wait time at transit stops and assuming no traffic problems. This includes a 15 mile trip in the opposite direction because of the way the two systems I would need to use to make the trip link up.

So to get to work and back would take longer than I would actually spend at my workplace, even when you add in a half hour lunch break. The US Census Bureau statistics don't even begin to tell the sordid story of how farked the public transit systems of this country really are.


Yeah, public transport isn't always an option.  First off, I work 6pm to 3am.  No bus to get me home.  Even if there was, I'd either have to leave for work almost 4 hours early, or hope the first bus was 10 minutes early to the stop where I'd switch, and the bus I'd be getting on was 15 minutes late...
 
2014-01-27 01:32:52 AM

Pokey.Clyde: Ima4nic8or: The problem is that todays young folks are lazy-ass dead beats. Cars have always been quite expensive but when I was 16, in the early 80s, I managed to cover my own gas plus still have plenty of money left over to buy beer and go on dates, etc.. I did this amazing thing that apparently none of todays young folks have heard of. I went to work, about 10 hrs a day each Sat and Sun. I also didn't expect to drive the newest car. I had a well worn early 70s Pinto. I realize all the snowflakes today expect to have a brand new 25k car but I settled for less. The parents did help some by covering insurance and car repairs but to be honest I probably could have covered those too, even though I was only making $10/hr, if I did not spend so much on beer and pussy.

$10/hr in the early 80s is a hell of a lot more than minimum wage in 2014, sparky.


That's a goddamn good wage. I was making $7.50/hr in 1990 as a casino medic and I was making more than most.
 
2014-01-27 02:02:37 AM

Ima4nic8or: The problem is that todays young folks are lazy-ass dead beats.  Cars have always been quite expensive but when I was 16, in the early 80s, I managed to cover my own gas plus still have plenty of money left over to buy beer and go on dates, etc..  I did this amazing thing that apparently none of todays young folks have heard of.  I went to work, about 10 hrs a day each Sat and Sun.  I also didn't expect to drive the newest car.  I had a well worn early 70s Pinto.  I realize all the snowflakes today expect to have a brand new 25k car but I settled for less.  The parents did help some by covering insurance and car repairs but to be honest I probably could have covered those too, even though I was only making $10/hr, if I did not spend so much on beer and pussy.


So, in other words, you were making what amounts to about $25 per hour in today's dollars, or about $50,000, at the age of 16?  Yeah, I call either bullshiat, you your head is in the sand.
 
2014-01-27 02:21:32 AM
I used to love to drive. The freedom. The speed. The ability to quickly get to new places and explore. No more pumping a bike for an hour or more in the stifling Florida summer heat. The comfort and the a/c.

Things have changed though. My first car, a Ford Falcon, single line 6, cost about $250 used. The bugger had power nothing. Gas was 25 cents a gallon. Insurance not required and if you got it, it was cheap. My next car, a 1967 Pontiac GTO was all muscle, freedom, speed and I customized the heck out of it. The thing had a 450 V8, quadrajet carburetor and I slapped on chrome rims, rear air shocks, side pipes, hood pins, a beautiful metal flake dark blue paint, chrome valve covers, put bigger, wider tires in the rear than in the front and loved that deep, powerful growl of the engine.

I could tear around the town and county and did. Gas had risen to 50 cents a gallon and the GTO usually got 8 mpg. I could do a lot of the repair and tune-up work on the engine myself.

The car today would be a problem. The population has exploded and people pack the roads, including those I used to cruise on at about 120 mph. Gas prices have become outrageous. Car insurance rates have gone way up and are required.

Get a ding in the GTO and I paid a body guy $20 to pop it out. Get a ding in a modern car and you can figure on peeling off $1000 to get it fixed.

The old dirt roads I used to like to blast down are now high end developments and someone will always call the cops. The cost of tickets has gone up hugely also.

There's too much traffic, too many accidents, gas costs take a heck of a bite from your budget and you need about $10,000 worth of equipment to work on your car engine, which has computers and chips scattered through it. You can't even set the timing at home anymore and what used to be a $30 job by a mechanic now costs $160.

The GTO had chrome bumpers. I ignored the little impacts now and then. However, I drove a more modern car with plastic bumpers and a lady backed into it and cracked the bumper casing.

I didn't know there were bumper casings. The plastic thing was popped off and a new one popped on, at a cost of $375 plus labor. I used to push and pull cars with the GTO bumpers and got no damage. If I try that today with my current car, I'll have to pay a bundle for bumpers.

Cars are safer, longer lasting and about 5 times as costly as when I was a kid. Most new cars cost more than the brand new, three bedroom home in a subdivision we bought decades ago.

Half of us kids built our cars from junkyard parts, which were cheap, usually guaranteed for a period of time and plentiful. You could save a few bucks if you went and took the part off yourself.

Prices at junk yards have soared also these days. Plus the demand for replacement headlight assemblies -- now one plastic piece costing about $150 -- means they run out fast.

Smash the headlight in the GTO and you simply replaced the sealed bulb for $10.

Yeah. I think I can understand why kids are delaying getting their drivers licenses.
 
2014-01-27 02:31:25 AM
I grew up in Sarasota, FL and got my learners permit at 14 in 1963.  I kept it through age 16 when I took drivers ed in high school and then had to let it lapse as my parents could not afford the  added insurance premiums for having a teen-aged male as an additional driver.  Our family was Mom, Dad, we three kids and my maternal grandparents.  Money was always tight.  I didn't get my regular drivers license until I was 19 and a sophomore in college and Dad landed a more secure sales job.

On gas prices, I can recall when I was in junior high in the early Sixties and Mom would stop and get gas on Saturday when she went grocery shopping.  Her standard deal was pull into the gas station and tell the attendant "Two dollars of regular, please."  Gas then was 25¢ a gallon.  That would get her about half a tank.  Even when I was in grad school in 1971 or 1972 and delivering motor homes over spring and summer breaks, gas was still 36¢ a gallon.  It was the Arab oil embargo in 1973 that doubled it almost overnight.
 
2014-01-27 02:58:51 AM

Rik01: I used to love to drive. The freedom. The speed. The ability to quickly get to new places and explore. No more pumping a bike for an hour or more in the stifling Florida summer heat. The comfort and the a/c.

Things have changed though. My first car, a Ford Falcon, single line 6, cost about $250 used. The bugger had power nothing. Gas was 25 cents a gallon. Insurance not required and if you got it, it was cheap. My next car, a 1967 Pontiac GTO was all muscle, freedom, speed and I customized the heck out of it. The thing had a 450 V8, quadrajet carburetor and I slapped on chrome rims, rear air shocks, side pipes, hood pins, a beautiful metal flake dark blue paint, chrome valve covers, put bigger, wider tires in the rear than in the front and loved that deep, powerful growl of the engine.

I could tear around the town and county and did. Gas had risen to 50 cents a gallon and the GTO usually got 8 mpg. I could do a lot of the repair and tune-up work on the engine myself.

The car today would be a problem. The population has exploded and people pack the roads, including those I used to cruise on at about 120 mph. Gas prices have become outrageous. Car insurance rates have gone way up and are required.

Get a ding in the GTO and I paid a body guy $20 to pop it out. Get a ding in a modern car and you can figure on peeling off $1000 to get it fixed.

The old dirt roads I used to like to blast down are now high end developments and someone will always call the cops. The cost of tickets has gone up hugely also.

There's too much traffic, too many accidents, gas costs take a heck of a bite from your budget and you need about $10,000 worth of equipment to work on your car engine, which has computers and chips scattered through it. You can't even set the timing at home anymore and what used to be a $30 job by a mechanic now costs $160.

The GTO had chrome bumpers. I ignored the little impacts now and then. However, I drove a more modern car with plastic bumpers and a lady bac ...


Sing it, dude.

My first car was a 1962 Chevy Impala 4 door sedan with a straight six.  It was a west coast Florida car and had enough rust that you could see into the trunk without opening the lid.  It went through batteries like a junkie through shiat.  However, it had lots of room inside and helped get me laid, so...

I sold that when I graduated college for $200 and used that as spending money on a trip to Europe in 1971.  In grad school, I lucked out in that my dad, through his company, was able to get great deals on "brass hats", i.e., auto company executive demos.  The execs would use them for a few months and then the company would sell them.  Dad was running a motor home company at the time and, since he was buying truck chassies  in  bulk to build motor homes on, he got a crack at buying these "brass hats."  He'd buy  them for half price  and a six month promissory note to pay the other half.  He'd buy one for himself, for Mom and I, and then we'd use them for a few months  before he'd sell them at  full  price, pay off the promissory note and buy more for us all.  It used to just puzzle the hell out of my sister's boy friend in college that I'd  show up in a new car every two months or so. I was driving a succession of Chevy Caprice Classics, El Caminos, high end Dodge sedans, etc.

After Dad died, and I got married, I was driving a 1966 VW 1300 Bug convertible then a 1972 Plymouth, then a Chevette.  Oh well...
 
2014-01-27 04:02:35 AM
I started driving at 14 (in South Dakota we could get our permit then, only restrictions being it had to be within 100 miles of home and not between 8 pm and 6 am.) Now that I'm in my 30s, I'm over the whole driving thing. I wish I lived somewhere with better public transportation.

Kids today can socialize online and with their phones, why do they need a car when their friends are a click away and constantly messaging them anyway?
 
2014-01-27 05:59:08 AM

TomD9938: Gyrfalcon: the average price of gas in 1978 was about .63 a gallon... and assuming the Mazda had a 10-gallon tank, which may also be wrong, then it would take $1.63 to fill it.

So long as there was already a bit more than 7 gallons in the tank, yeah.


in 1971 average gas price was $0.36
gas wars could take it down to a quarter or less
Minimum wage was $1.65

six gallons an hour woo hoo!

pot was ten bucks an ounce or free
orange barrel was about a buck fifty or free

cigs abut fifty cents or free

free free free

bird
 
2014-01-27 06:24:06 AM

drunk_bouncnbaloruber: Ima4nic8or: The problem is that todays young folks are lazy-ass dead beats.  Cars have always been quite expensive but when I was 16, in the early 80s, I managed to cover my own gas plus still have plenty of money left over to buy beer and go on dates, etc..  I did this amazing thing that apparently none of todays young folks have heard of.  I went to work, about 10 hrs a day each Sat and Sun.  I also didn't expect to drive the newest car.  I had a well worn early 70s Pinto.  I realize all the snowflakes today expect to have a brand new 25k car but I settled for less.  The parents did help some by covering insurance and car repairs but to be honest I probably could have covered those too, even though I was only making $10/hr, if I did not spend so much on beer and pussy.

So, in other words, you were making what amounts to about $25 per hour in today's dollars, or about $50,000, at the age of 16?  Yeah, I call either bullshiat, you your head is in the sand.


Maybe but in 1982 I was making $8.46+ an hour with full benefits as a tugger nipper/tailings pond operator
hippy, high school grad! just showed up for shift ready to work and they put me on around 78

didn't seem like all that much at the time really
 
2014-01-27 06:43:13 AM
my bad ... cigs were $0.36

or free
 
2014-01-27 07:17:54 AM
Back when I was a teenager, we could take a six pack of Pepsi or Coke bottles back to the gas station, and have enough money to fill a gallon container of gas, to take back home for the mini-bike. For a dollar's worth of gas, I could drive to school for 3 days in my 1966 283 ci V8 Chevelle Malibu.
 
2014-01-27 07:35:52 AM

Morgellons: weed beer


Hops is a weed,
 
2014-01-27 08:04:39 AM
Floridian here (go ahead, mock)

My son, and two of his h/s friends, all took driver's ed and had learner's permits at 15. (That semester I also taught them to drive stick on my car - mandatory skill).
The week after my son got his D/L I got a nice letter from my insurance company effectively doubling my premium because ta-da! "new driver".  I argued he was NOT a driver (licensed, but no car) and was informed that didn't matter. So? He turned his license back in for a state I/D instead (his call). And, yes, he has a job - all of his pay would go just for car costs (gas and insurance)

The other two young men also don't drive - one is in the military (transportation by Uncle Sam) and the other, after transmission death of his first clunker, has yet to earn enough working "as needed" in construction to repair, replace or insure anything other than a bicycle.

The point, made above? Insurance rates for young male drivers have largely outpaced their beginners' jobs (transition from H/S to college and career) and, for parents, the risk-as-premium-rate is shocking.

Have yet to meet one that didn't know how to drive by the age of 15 or so.
 
2014-01-27 08:17:17 AM

parasol: Floridian here (go head, mock)


Same. No mocking.

Insurance rates for young male drivers have largely outpaced their beginners' jobs (transition from H/S to college and career) and, for parents, the risk-as-premium-rate is shocking.

Every day, I am more and more grateful that mine is a daughter. She's turning 16 on Friday and isn't at all interested in a DL. This is where I do the happy dance, and my wallet breathes a sigh of relief.
 
2014-01-27 09:01:00 AM

dpaul007: parasol: Floridian here (go head, mock)

Same. No mocking.

Insurance rates for young male drivers have largely outpaced their beginners' jobs (transition from H/S to college and career) and, for parents, the risk-as-premium-rate is shocking.

Every day, I am more and more grateful that mine is a daughter. She's turning 16 on Friday and isn't at all interested in a DL. This is where I do the happy dance, and my wallet breathes a sigh of relief.


Congrats - 16 is a fun year (not so much for the folks)
She's saving you money now - be prepared for that per-plate wedding reception - which would likely still cost less than the University book store.
;)
 
2014-01-27 09:39:23 AM
The reason is insane insurance costs--mostly due to a well intentioned fiasco called no-fault.  Basically, any time there is an accident, your insurance pays up to $10k for minor medical costs to you with little to no proof of injury required.  The other driver's insurance does the same for him.  It was supposed to prevent expensive litigation for every minor accident.  It has caused an avalanche of dishonest attorneys (redundant I know) who specialize in this trade.  One such loser, 1-800-Ask-Gary, is likely nearly a billionaire.  He's building a giant roman estate on the beach near Sarasota.  He's not even a lawyer, but a chiropractor.  So basically every time there is a fender bender it's likely costing insurance companies about $20k.  To make it worse, there is huge fraud staging fender benders with cars full of Mexicans who just signed up for insurance.  It's a disaster.

Back to the actual insurance costs.  When my daughter got her license at 17 (she is an A student, and a female which is cheaper), our insurance doubled from $180 a month to $360 a month.  We went from 2 drivers 2 cars to 3 drivers 2 cars and the insurance doubled.  Our cars at the time were an 6 year old Kia and 10 year old Corrolla.  I said, can we drop comprehensive on the Corrolla and take our chances.  Sure, it will save you like $10 a month.  Never mind.

You can probably find cheaper insurance, but if you are lucky enough to get decent homeowners insurance, they will drop you like a bad case of herp if you switch away from their expensive auto insurance.
 
2014-01-27 10:08:54 AM
I have 4 cars and 2 teenagers driving, and my auto insurance rate is $715/month.  That is why kids aren't rushing out to get their driver's licenses like we did in the 80's.
 
2014-01-27 10:17:47 AM

Aulus: I grew up in Sarasota, FL and got my learners permit at 14 in 1963.  I kept it through age 16 when I took drivers ed in high school and then had to let it lapse as my parents could not afford the  added insurance premiums for having a teen-aged male as an additional driver.  Our family was Mom, Dad, we three kids and my maternal grandparents.  Money was always tight.  I didn't get my regular drivers license until I was 19 and a sophomore in college and Dad landed a more secure sales job.

On gas prices, I can recall when I was in junior high in the early Sixties and Mom would stop and get gas on Saturday when she went grocery shopping.  Her standard deal was pull into the gas station and tell the attendant "Two dollars of regular, please."  Gas then was 25¢ a gallon.  That would get her about half a tank.  Even when I was in grad school in 1971 or 1972 and delivering motor homes over spring and summer breaks, gas was still 36¢ a gallon.  It was the Arab oil embargo in 1973 that doubled it almost overnight.


Without wheels, what did you do in high school for fun?

Cripes, I grew up in Sarasota, started driving in the mid 80's, and there wasn't much to do then but drive around to try to find a party or maybe hang out at the mall.
 
2014-01-27 12:15:12 PM

Ima4nic8or: The problem is that todays young folks are lazy-ass dead beats.  Cars have always been quite expensive but when I was 16, in the early 80s, I managed to cover my own gas plus still have plenty of money left over to buy beer and go on dates, etc..  I did this amazing thing that apparently none of todays young folks have heard of.  I went to work, about 10 hrs a day each Sat and Sun.  I also didn't expect to drive the newest car.  I had a well worn early 70s Pinto.  I realize all the snowflakes today expect to have a brand new 25k car but I settled for less.  The parents did help some by covering insurance and car repairs but to be honest I probably could have covered those too, even though I was only making $10/hr, if I did not spend so much on beer and pussy.


Cash For Clunkers took most of the 'first car' cars out of the market. Adults are working the entry level jobs (and biatching about the miserable wage). It's hideously expensive to put a car on the road, as most states use registration fees to help close their deficits. All this for the privilege of incurring parking fees. Kids these days have it harder than you did, pops.
 
2014-01-27 02:15:49 PM

ThighsofGlory: Ima4nic8or: The problem is that todays young folks are lazy-ass dead beats.  Cars have always been quite expensive but when I was 16, in the early 80s, I managed to cover my own gas plus still have plenty of money left over to buy beer and go on dates, etc..  I did this amazing thing that apparently none of todays young folks have heard of.  I went to work, about 10 hrs a day each Sat and Sun.  I also didn't expect to drive the newest car.  I had a well worn early 70s Pinto.  I realize all the snowflakes today expect to have a brand new 25k car but I settled for less.  The parents did help some by covering insurance and car repairs but to be honest I probably could have covered those too, even though I was only making $10/hr, if I did not spend so much on beer and pussy.

Cash For Clunkers took most of the 'first car' cars out of the market. Adults are working the entry level jobs (and biatching about the miserable wage). It's hideously expensive to put a car on the road, as most states use registration fees to help close their deficits. All this for the privilege of incurring parking fees. Kids these days have it harder than you did, pops.


Not to mention he was making $10/h in the 80s. According to http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm  $10 in 1985 is 21.65 today. Find me a job that will hire a 16 year old and pay them $21.65, I'll wait.
 
2014-01-27 06:20:19 PM

parasol: My son, and two of his h/s friends, all took driver's ed and had learner's permits at 15. (That semester I also taught them to drive stick on my car - mandatory skill).The week after my son got his D/L I got a nice letter from my insurance company effectively doubling my premium because ta-da! "new driver". I argued he was NOT a driver (licensed, but no car) and was informed that didn't matter. So? He turned his license back in for a state I/D instead (his call). And, yes, he has a job - all of his pay would go just for car costs (gas and insurance)


Doesn't matter that he didn't have a car. He had a license, therefore he could have driven one of your vehicles.
 
2014-01-27 07:14:57 PM

Hobnay: I have 4 cars and 2 teenagers driving, and my auto insurance rate is $715/month.  That is why kids aren't rushing out to get their driver's licenses like we did in the 80's.


You farkers are scaring me. My oldest girl is almost 17, and has been planning to get her license near her birthday. I would grumble at an extra $100/month, but I can't take more than that.
 
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