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(io9)   You know how a lot of people died in WWI? Now we think it might have been a lot more. Oops   (io9.com) divider line 69
    More: Interesting, Great War, internment camps, undergrowth, official statistics, professor emeritus  
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11718 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jan 2014 at 8:55 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-25 08:57:58 PM  
Don't mention the war!
 
2014-01-25 08:58:59 PM  
What you mean, "we?"
 
2014-01-25 08:59:25 PM  
Before long, they will discover EVERYONE involved in WWI is dead. It's creepy.
 
2014-01-25 09:00:44 PM  
nasty business, I was against it
 
2014-01-25 09:03:08 PM  
Where do the soldiers who died from their injuries after the war ended count?  Did they make the total count, or just the reducing number of veterans?

/Specifically the wounded that never recovered, but may have hung on for a year
 
2014-01-25 09:04:45 PM  
I look forward to the next 4 years of WWI threads and interesting tidbits.

Trench Detectives had some fascinating episodes.

The shock wave of explosives is farking fascinating. I read a story about a meeting of officers in a little outbuilding on a farm in France just after the Normandy invasion. The Germans had pre-sighted and waited for the place to fill with Americans. One round landed pretty close. There was an officer who was killed. Not scratched at all, no blood, just everything inside of his body turned to mush from the pressure waves.

Oh well... it's only 2014...4 more years to go!
 
2014-01-25 09:07:20 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Before long, they will discover EVERYONE involved in WWI is dead. It's creepy.


In a study that took place over the last ten years, a random sampling of WWI veterans was compared with a random sampling of the population at large.

The veteran sample had a 100% mortality rate, far exceeding that of the control sample. As such, it can be concluded that having participated in WWI is extremely hazardous to your health even decades after the fighting ended.
 
2014-01-25 09:09:29 PM  
If you want to study the cold, calculated killing of people according to a schedule, WWI is a great place to start.

And if you want to chart the decline of Europe, look at how they took their best and brightest and fed them into the teeth of machine guns.
 
2014-01-25 09:09:38 PM  
Thanks Obama!
 
2014-01-25 09:10:15 PM  

lack of warmth: Where do the soldiers who died from their injuries after the war ended count?  Did they make the total count, or just the reducing number of veterans?

/Specifically the wounded that never recovered, but may have hung on for a year


My grandmothers brother was one of those. He survived a gas attack, made it back to Canada, and died 6 months later... at age 19.
 
2014-01-25 09:11:46 PM  
war to end all wars indeed. What a horrible pointless waste.
WW1 might be the most depressing era in human history.
 
2014-01-25 09:12:30 PM  

baconbeard: lack of warmth: Where do the soldiers who died from their injuries after the war ended count?  Did they make the total count, or just the reducing number of veterans?

/Specifically the wounded that never recovered, but may have hung on for a year

My grandmothers brother was one of those. He survived a gas attack, made it back to Canada, and died 6 months later... at age 19.


Did the flu get him?
 
2014-01-25 09:13:48 PM  
My grandfather was a WWI Veteran who came back in one piece. Good thing for me and my siblings.

Looking at pictures of him during those years was like looking in a mirror when I was that age.
 
2014-01-25 09:14:28 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: I look forward to the next 4 years of WWI threads and interesting tidbits.

Trench Detectives had some fascinating episodes.

The shock wave of explosives is farking fascinating. I read a story about a meeting of officers in a little outbuilding on a farm in France just after the Normandy invasion. The Germans had pre-sighted and waited for the place to fill with Americans. One round landed pretty close. There was an officer who was killed. Not scratched at all, no blood, just everything inside of his body turned to mush from the pressure waves.

Oh well... it's only 2014...4 more years to go!


WWI or WWII?  The second part looks like a WWII reference.  Germans did a lot of retreat then counter attack plans.  I never really got that logic because it just kept costing them lives and land.
 
2014-01-25 09:15:17 PM  
sites.psu.edu

Lol. Ain't war hell?
 
2014-01-25 09:16:03 PM  

bass555: nasty business, I was against it


Well, I wrote a letter.
 
2014-01-25 09:16:50 PM  
static.tvtropes.org
 
2014-01-25 09:21:54 PM  

Piizzadude: Thanks Obama!


He went by Wilson back then.
 
2014-01-25 09:26:37 PM  
www.global-air.com

The Zimmermann Telegram was intercepted and released to newspapers, causing public outrage that resulted in the U.S. declaring war against Germany.

From the decoded German telegram:

"We intend to begin on the first of February unrestricted submarine warfare. We shall endeavor in spite of this to keep the United States of America neutral. In the event of this not succeeding, we make Mexico a proposal of alliance on the following basis: make war together, make peace together, generous financial support and an understanding on our part that Mexico is to reconquer the lost territory in Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona."

 (new window)
 
2014-01-25 09:33:49 PM  

a particular individual: bass555: nasty business, I was against it

Well, I wrote a letter.


As did I...

"dear sirs,
Quit it!"
 
2014-01-25 09:42:18 PM  
My great-uncle was killed in action on 15 Sep 1918, and is buried at St. Mihiel in France. He was my paternal grandfather's next older brother. Rest in peace, Uncle Charlie. My grandfather survived being gassed, and lived to age 83.

St Mihiel: http://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries/sm.php
 
2014-01-25 09:48:38 PM  
Then there are things like the Saint-Michel-de-Maurienne derailment that killed hundreds. Did they include things like that?
 
2014-01-25 09:56:15 PM  

baconbeard: lack of warmth: Where do the soldiers who died from their injuries after the war ended count?  Did they make the total count, or just the reducing number of veterans?

/Specifically the wounded that never recovered, but may have hung on for a year

My grandmothers brother was one of those. He survived a gas attack, made it back to Canada, and died 6 months later... at age 19.


My grandfather was a WW1 vet, also returned to Canada, and he picked up something in the trenches that gave him liver disease - probably hepatitis - and it took him almost 30 years to die from it. From what I was told, my mom successfully fought for his veterans pension so that my grandmother would continue to receive it.
 
2014-01-25 09:58:22 PM  
Really, are we surprised? Being off by 10% isn't much of a surprise when working with some pretty sketchy records (in Russia, Turkey and Germany in particular with the chaos following the war). Not to mention the definition as to what a WWI death is.

Besides, as far as I am aware, 9 million is the lower end of the spectrum.
 
2014-01-25 09:59:21 PM  

lack of warmth: Where do the soldiers who died from their injuries after the war ended count?  Did they make the total count, or just the reducing number of veterans?

/Specifically the wounded that never recovered, but may have hung on for a year


An interesting question, I remember reading an account of the Great London Smog in 1952.  The guy's father was WWI vet.  He had gotten gassed had lung problems. During the Smog he just up and died.
 
2014-01-25 10:04:09 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Before long, they will discover EVERYONE involved in WWI is dead. It's creepy.


Oh wow, mind blown.
 
2014-01-25 10:10:48 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: I look forward to the next 4 years of WWI threads and interesting tidbits.

Trench Detectives had some fascinating episodes.

The shock wave of explosives is farking fascinating. I read a story about a meeting of officers in a little outbuilding on a farm in France just after the Normandy invasion. The Germans had pre-sighted and waited for the place to fill with Americans. One round landed pretty close. There was an officer who was killed. Not scratched at all, no blood, just everything inside of his body turned to mush from the pressure waves.

Oh well... it's only 2014...4 more years to go!


I've seen some of the trench detective shows. You're also right concussion alone can kill you with out a single piece of shrapnel hitting you brains and organs can only take so much. Brain injuries are the most common.
 
2014-01-25 10:12:43 PM  
It is estimated that more people died as a result of the Spanish 'Flu than died as a direct result of the fighting in the whole of WWI.
Pretty good weapon. Saps.
 
2014-01-25 10:14:42 PM  

Farxist Marxist: baconbeard: lack of warmth: Where do the soldiers who died from their injuries after the war ended count?  Did they make the total count, or just the reducing number of veterans?

/Specifically the wounded that never recovered, but may have hung on for a year

My grandmothers brother was one of those. He survived a gas attack, made it back to Canada, and died 6 months later... at age 19.

My grandfather was a WW1 vet, also returned to Canada, and he picked up something in the trenches that gave him liver disease - probably hepatitis - and it took him almost 30 years to die from it. From what I was told, my mom successfully fought for his veterans pension so that my grandmother would continue to receive it.


Believe it or not, there is still someone recieving pension from the US Civil War: http://www.usnews.com/news/newsgram/articles/2013/07/03/one-civil-war - veterans-pension-remains-on-governments-payroll

/also, as a side note, two of presidet Tyler's grandkids are still alive. He was pre-Lincoln
 
2014-01-25 10:19:26 PM  
I never understood the 'compartmentalization' of death statistics - Especially WWI. Especially Russia.

They lost millions of civilians to starvation and disease; then rolled into the revolution and added killing each other as a new and ingenious way to die while still dying from starvation and disease. From what I've read they lost more than 9 million on their own...

But, lol, they don't 'count' as war dead. Death, disease, millions dispossessed, poverty/exposure, revolution - the fact that the WWI was like a match to gasoline is immaterial.

Gah.

/The Russians/Soviets - the two wars wrapped around Stalin's purges and deliberate starvation of millions - quite realistically may have lost 40 million people in 30 years.  I can't get my head around it...
//It's equally quite possible Mao gave that number a run for its money in an even shorter time.
 
2014-01-25 10:26:37 PM  
France was certainly the meatgrinder......
Had relatives at both Somme battles.
 
2014-01-25 10:28:17 PM  

dywed88: Really, are we surprised? Being off by 10% isn't much of a surprise when working with some pretty sketchy records (in Russia, Turkey and Germany in particular with the chaos following the war). Not to mention the definition as to what a WWI death is.

Besides, as far as I am aware, 9 million is the lower end of the spectrum.


Yes.  Martin Gilbert quoted c. 20 million dead in the war: the 1-1.5M Armenian genocide victims weren't counted as  military dead.  And the battle lines ranged much more widely over the Eastern Front than over the other fronts, causing a lot more dead not only from violence, but starvation and disease.
 
2014-01-25 10:33:08 PM  

Tired_of_the_BS: //It's equally quite possible Mao gave that number a run for its money in an even shorter time.


23-47 Million dead in the Great Leap Forward*
1-20 Million more in the Cultural Revolution.
Throw in Tibet for shiats and giggles.

He's got Stalin way beat.

* So it turns out that modern agriculture is HARD.  And if you pick random people off of the streets and tell them to go farm, even when they try hard (which they didn't because collectivism), they fark up.  Especially if you melt all of the tools down to try and make incredibly shiatty steel.  And then everyone starves to death.
 
2014-01-25 10:41:02 PM  
WWI tri fecta in play
 
2014-01-25 10:47:31 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Before long, they will discover EVERYONE involved in WWI is dead. It's creepy.


What would be worse is if more people died in WWI than were alive to start with.
 
2014-01-25 11:14:33 PM  
 
2014-01-25 11:26:40 PM  

lack of warmth: Where do the soldiers who died from their injuries after the war ended count?  Did they make the total count, or just the reducing number of veterans?

/Specifically the wounded that never recovered, but may have hung on for a year


I believe in US record keeping if you was still alive when you was well enough to be discharged from the army to go home you was not counted as a war death. Or at least thats how it was as of the Civil War.
 
2014-01-25 11:36:42 PM  

Oldiron_79: lack of warmth: Where do the soldiers who died from their injuries after the war ended count?  Did they make the total count, or just the reducing number of veterans?

/Specifically the wounded that never recovered, but may have hung on for a year

I believe in US record keeping if you was still alive when you was well enough to be discharged from the army to go home you was not counted as a war death. Or at least thats how it was as of the Civil War.


it was, was it?
 
2014-01-25 11:48:48 PM  

some_beer_drinker: Oldiron_79: lack of warmth: Where do the soldiers who died from their injuries after the war ended count?  Did they make the total count, or just the reducing number of veterans?

/Specifically the wounded that never recovered, but may have hung on for a year

I believe in US record keeping if you was still alive when you was well enough to be discharged from the army to go home you was not counted as a war death. Or at least thats how it was as of the Civil War.

it was, was it?


Yeah Im like 99% sure of it. It was mentioned in a discussion of the death toll of the Civil War and I dont think it was changed until like WWII or later.
 
2014-01-26 12:23:20 AM  
the real shame is it took all those deaths for the human race to finally learn that war accomplishes nothing.
 
2014-01-26 12:29:23 AM  

bigbobowski: the real shame is it took all those deaths for the human race to finally learn that war accomplishes nothing.


It killed a lot of people. That is something....
 
2014-01-26 12:51:27 AM  

Stone Meadow: My grandfather survived being gassed, and lived to age 83.


My great-grandfather survived being gassed in WWI only to die of injuries sustained in WWII. Somewhere, we still have both of his purple hearts.
 
2014-01-26 12:59:09 AM  

meyerkev: So it turns out that modern agriculture is HARD. And if you pick random people off of the streets and tell them to go farm, even when they try hard (which they didn't because collectivism), they fark up. Especially if you melt all of the tools down to try and make incredibly shiatty steel. And then everyone starves to death.


Well the idea that you can massively reform a society that is essentially living in a Malthusian trap is crap. Not without huge amounts of outside resources from other societies that have some to spare. Otherwise  pretty much anything you do is going to result in people starving. Good comment I heard was in the late seventies after Mao died and the gang of four was pushed out Xiaoping and his gang made sure to prioritize food supply first, markets second, industry third. Put in place incentives for farmers to increase yields. Make deals with the capitalist running dogs to provide markets for Chinese goods, borrow money to buy machinery and talent. Works better than sending soldiers around to requisition the peasants grain supplies.
 
2014-01-26 01:18:37 AM  
Dunno if war accomplishes nothing.  GAR ended slavery in North America.  Allies liberated NAZI death camps.  Not nothing.  Cleaning the Japanese out of China, Indochina, Manchuria, Philippines, not nothing.
 
2014-01-26 02:13:15 AM  

Oldiron_79: lack of warmth: Where do the soldiers who died from their injuries after the war ended count?  Did they make the total count, or just the reducing number of veterans?

/Specifically the wounded that never recovered, but may have hung on for a year

I believe in US record keeping if you was still alive when you was well enough to be discharged from the army to go home you was not counted as a war death. Or at least thats how it was as of the Civil War.


You misspelled that. It should be "If yew wuz alive when yew wuz well enuf to be discharged, yew wuz not counted as a war deth."
 
2014-01-26 02:26:52 AM  

Stone Meadow: My great-uncle was killed in action on 15 Sep 1918, and is buried at St. Mihiel in France. He was my paternal grandfather's next older brother. Rest in peace, Uncle Charlie. My grandfather survived being gassed, and lived to age 83.

St Mihiel: http://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries/sm.php

That cemetery is very well-maintained from the moving video.  Nice resting place for your dear great uncle who died way too soon in that brutal war. I have a number of uncles who served during World War II, but we are fortunate that all came back alive. My Uncle Tom did come back quite nervous and with a life long problem with alcoholism, but he lived until age 92.  Nice to hear that your grandfather lived a long life despite being gassed.

 
2014-01-26 02:33:00 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Oldiron_79: lack of warmth: Where do the soldiers who died from their injuries after the war ended count?  Did they make the total count, or just the reducing number of veterans?

/Specifically the wounded that never recovered, but may have hung on for a year

I believe in US record keeping if you was still alive when you was well enough to be discharged from the army to go home you was not counted as a war death. Or at least thats how it was as of the Civil War.

You misspelled that. It should be "If yew wuz alive when yew wuz well enuf to be discharged, yew wuz not counted as a war deth."


Oh my... mein Furhur.
 
2014-01-26 02:36:39 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: I look forward to the next 4 years of WWI threads and interesting tidbits.

Trench Detectives had some fascinating episodes.

The shock wave of explosives is farking fascinating. I read a story about a meeting of officers in a little outbuilding on a farm in France just after the Normandy invasion. The Germans had pre-sighted and waited for the place to fill with Americans. One round landed pretty close. There was an officer who was killed. Not scratched at all, no blood, just everything inside of his body turned to mush from the pressure waves.

Oh well... it's only 2014...4 more years to go!


Um, Normandy invasion, WW1. These things don't belong together...
 
2014-01-26 02:44:15 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Oldiron_79: lack of warmth: Where do the soldiers who died from their injuries after the war ended count?  Did they make the total count, or just the reducing number of veterans?

/Specifically the wounded that never recovered, but may have hung on for a year

I believe in US record keeping if you was still alive when you was well enough to be discharged from the army to go home you was not counted as a war death. Or at least thats how it was as of the Civil War.

You misspelled that. It should be "If yew wuz alive when yew wuz well enuf to be discharged, yew wuz not counted as a war deth."


Are you like the reverse grammar nazi or something?
 
2014-01-26 02:48:21 AM  

Oldiron_79: Gyrfalcon: Oldiron_79: lack of warmth: Where do the soldiers who died from their injuries after the war ended count?  Did they make the total count, or just the reducing number of veterans?

/Specifically the wounded that never recovered, but may have hung on for a year

I believe in US record keeping if you was still alive when you was well enough to be discharged from the army to go home you was not counted as a war death. Or at least thats how it was as of the Civil War.

You misspelled that. It should be "If yew wuz alive when yew wuz well enuf to be discharged, yew wuz not counted as a war deth."

Are you like the reverse grammar nazi or something?


Sure, why not?
 
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