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(CBS San Francisco)   California drought may be the worst since the 1500's, is now officially longer than the one still going on at Wrigley Field   (sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, UC Berkeley, Berkeley, droughts, lake beds, tree rings, streambeds  
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1368 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Jan 2014 at 6:46 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-25 06:56:42 PM  
I don't believe it. Its snowing here so California is probably lying.
 
2014-01-25 07:05:39 PM  
Building a desalination plant in my city. We'll need many more of them.
 
2014-01-25 07:05:53 PM  
Is the Pacific Ocean full of water?
 
2014-01-25 07:05:58 PM  
FTFA: Dried up creek beds along with golden hills that look like its August instead of January could become our typical landscape, if history repeats itself.

The Bay Area was built up during the 20th century, we may be forced to adapt to a drier 21st century.

Ingram is not predicting that, she said that's like predicting earthquakes.


Real fine writing there, Lou.
 
2014-01-25 07:08:07 PM  
How could it become longer, if the one in Wrigley Field is still going on?
 
2014-01-25 07:09:26 PM  
Ten percent of the agricultural products in the US come from the San Joaquin valley.  The aquifer is already collapsing I wonder if this is the year the area fails.
 
2014-01-25 07:12:20 PM  
Since the 1500's? Did the Yokut tribe have meteorological and data recording equipment?
 
2014-01-25 07:15:32 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Since the 1500's? Did the Yokut tribe have meteorological and data recording equipment?


Tree rings are very accurate drought markers.
 
2014-01-25 07:19:15 PM  

The Grapes of Wrath, Part II:


Back to Oklahoma

 
2014-01-25 07:56:42 PM  
1987-1992 was hard to get through. This doesn't feel as bad yet. Odd, she didn't mention that but does the shorter one a decade before.

Oh, right. She's got a book to sell.
 
2014-01-25 08:03:36 PM  
"She looked back 10 to 20 thousand years and came to the conclusion that we live in a dry climate ."

Real fine research there, Lou.
 
2014-01-25 08:06:36 PM  
I wonder why the state doesn't try a Cash for Clunkers for old dishwashers and clothes washers. Also, rebates towards changing grass lawns into low water plants and the like. Doesn't help the farmers, though.
 
2014-01-25 08:11:20 PM  

JonBuck: Building a desalination plant in my city. We'll need many more of them.



San Diego?
 
2014-01-25 08:15:16 PM  
calwatchdog.com
 
2014-01-25 08:19:31 PM  
There really isn't much that can be done. Agriculture is really what uses the vast majority of the water. While I love having fresh american grown produce while it is zero degrees where I am, it can't last much longer. If this was China water from the Midwest would already be in California, but states rights and such.
 
2014-01-25 08:35:53 PM  

frozenhotchocolate: There really isn't much that can be done. Agriculture is really what uses the vast majority of the water. While I love having fresh american grown produce while it is zero degrees where I am, it can't last much longer. If this was China water from the Midwest would already be in California, but states rights and such.


And California smugness. They pride themselves on how green they are, but only because they import so much of their water and power from other states.  Or how liberal and humane they are, but their prisons are the worst in the country. They completely violate the rights of their inmates with treatment and overcrowding and have been ignoring court orders to fix the problem for well over a decade.
 
2014-01-25 08:36:21 PM  
We should take California and push it somewhere else!
 
2014-01-25 08:38:39 PM  
frozenhotchocolate: If this was China water from the Midwest would already be in California, but states rights and such.

Well, that and we probably don't want a war with Canada.  Half of that water is theirs.

/it'd be fun.  we'd join their side.
 
2014-01-25 08:40:52 PM  

frozenhotchocolate: There really isn't much that can be done. Agriculture is really what uses the vast majority of the water. While I love having fresh american grown produce while it is zero degrees where I am, it can't last much longer. If this was China water from the Midwest would already be in California, but states rights and such.


The one things that all the people around here can agree on is don't touch the Great Lakes. Even teamed up with the Canucks on this. Hell just the mention of the idea get people all riled up. It's kind of nice actually that we are so protective of them...in a way.

\Michigander
 
2014-01-25 08:49:52 PM  

Spadababababababa Spadina Bus: [calwatchdog.com image 186x299]


I've been pushing that book on Fark for a long time.
 
2014-01-25 09:17:39 PM  

Nemo's Brother: frozenhotchocolate: There really isn't much that can be done. Agriculture is really what uses the vast majority of the water. While I love having fresh american grown produce while it is zero degrees where I am, it can't last much longer. If this was China water from the Midwest would already be in California, but states rights and such.

And California smugness. They pride themselves on how green they are, but only because they import so much of their water and power from other states.


Yeah, except no. Ignoring most of your screed, let's dispense with the "imported water" urban legend. California manages about 82 MAF of water in a typical year. Of that, only 4.4 MAF...about 5% of California's water...comes from the Colorado River, the only "arguable" out-of-state water. Every drop of the remaining 77 MAF comes from sources within California. So no...you can't haz that bs routine.
 
2014-01-25 09:29:54 PM  

gingerjet: JonBuck: Building a desalination plant in my city. We'll need many more of them.


San Diego?


Carlsbad, to the north. I live pretty close to where they're building it, but it was never a NIMBY issue for me. When complete it'll be able to supply 7% of regional needs, which isn't bad. Gonna be expensive, but it'll make a difference.
 
2014-01-25 09:36:57 PM  

Tellingthem: frozenhotchocolate: There really isn't much that can be done. Agriculture is really what uses the vast majority of the water. While I love having fresh american grown produce while it is zero degrees where I am, it can't last much longer. If this was China water from the Midwest would already be in California, but states rights and such.

The one things that all the people around here can agree on is don't touch the Great Lakes. Even teamed up with the Canucks on this. Hell just the mention of the idea get people all riled up. It's kind of nice actually that we are so protective of them...in a way.

\Michigander


I am also mostly a Michigander. I could care less about people moving to barren places and then complaining about how barren said place is. It's the agriculture I care about and it's importance to all Americans. Its just gonna suck when it drys up in the coming decades.
 
2014-01-25 09:37:14 PM  

Stone Meadow: Nemo's Brother: frozenhotchocolate: There really isn't much that can be done. Agriculture is really what uses the vast majority of the water. While I love having fresh american grown produce while it is zero degrees where I am, it can't last much longer. If this was China water from the Midwest would already be in California, but states rights and such.

And California smugness. They pride themselves on how green they are, but only because they import so much of their water and power from other states.

Yeah, except no. Ignoring most of your screed, let's dispense with the "imported water" urban legend. California manages about 82 MAF of water in a typical year. Of that, only 4.4 MAF...about 5% of California's water...comes from the Colorado River, the only "arguable" out-of-state water. Every drop of the remaining 77 MAF comes from sources within California. So no...you can't haz that bs routine.


But building two major cities in arid zones is a good idea?  The Colorado used to be a salmon river.

Los Angeles has averaged 14.98 inches, per annum, per year since 1877.  Unsustainable given today's technology.
 
2014-01-25 10:02:55 PM  

Nemo's Brother: frozenhotchocolate: There really isn't much that can be done. Agriculture is really what uses the vast majority of the water. While I love having fresh american grown produce while it is zero degrees where I am, it can't last much longer. If this was China water from the Midwest would already be in California, but states rights and such.

And California smugness. They pride themselves on how green they are, but only because they import so much of their water and power from other states.  Or how liberal and humane they are, but their prisons are the worst in the country. They completely violate the rights of their inmates with treatment and overcrowding and have been ignoring court orders to fix the problem for well over a decade.


Yeah, Schwarzenegger was such a democrat.
 
2014-01-25 10:03:52 PM  
Learn to hike
Learn to hike
Learn to hike
Learn to hike
Learn to hike
 
2014-01-25 10:07:35 PM  

Shakin_Haitian: Nemo's Brother: frozenhotchocolate: There really isn't much that can be done. Agriculture is really what uses the vast majority of the water. While I love having fresh american grown produce while it is zero degrees where I am, it can't last much longer. If this was China water from the Midwest would already be in California, but states rights and such.

And California smugness. They pride themselves on how green they are, but only because they import so much of their water and power from other states.  Or how liberal and humane they are, but their prisons are the worst in the country. They completely violate the rights of their inmates with treatment and overcrowding and have been ignoring court orders to fix the problem for well over a decade.

Yeah, Schwarzenegger was such a democrat.


We gave the world Nixon and Reagan, FFS.
 
2014-01-25 10:14:56 PM  
Just gonna leave this here...

sullydish.files.wordpress.com

/hot
//and, dry
 
2014-01-25 10:29:21 PM  

2wolves: Stone Meadow: Yeah, except no. Ignoring most of your screed, let's dispense with the "imported water" urban legend.

But building two major cities in arid zones is a good idea?  The Colorado used to be a salmon river.

Los Angeles has averaged 14.98 inches, per annum, per year since 1877.  Unsustainable given today's technology.


Oh, nonsense. Of the 43 MAF of water used in California to directly sustain human life (ignoring the 39 MAF used to protect the environment), 34 MAF...or 81%...is used by agriculture, with all 38 million people using just 5.6 MAF...just 13%...for household water. The remaining 6% is used by industry and municipalities.

California could DOUBLE its human population (to 80 million) at its present per capita water use by improving agriculture's efficiency by less than 20%. That means adopting already proved water technologies, instead of using flood and sprinkler irrigation. Far from being 'technologically unsustainable', better and more widely used technology means that there is no arbitrarily fixed level of population and agriculture California can sustain while still protecting the environment.

Data source: http://www.sanfranciscobay.sierraclub.org/yodeler/html/2010/05/articl e 5.htm
 
2014-01-25 10:50:53 PM  
The desert areas can have my Great Lakes water when they can pry it from my cold, dead hands.  Seriously, I think the next civil war will be over water.
 
2014-01-25 11:59:05 PM  
we'll just have to take the Great Lakes, since we grow most of the US produce
 
2014-01-26 12:01:29 AM  

HaywoodJablonski: Learn to hike
Learn to hike
Learn to hike
Learn to hike
Learn to hike


images.pwned.com
 
2014-01-26 12:57:12 AM  

Stone Meadow: 2wolves: Stone Meadow: Yeah, except no. Ignoring most of your screed, let's dispense with the "imported water" urban legend.

But building two major cities in arid zones is a good idea?  The Colorado used to be a salmon river.

Los Angeles has averaged 14.98 inches, per annum, per year since 1877.  Unsustainable given today's technology.

Oh, nonsense. Of the 43 MAF of water used in California to directly sustain human life (ignoring the 39 MAF used to protect the environment), 34 MAF...or 81%...is used by agriculture, with all 38 million people using just 5.6 MAF...just 13%...for household water. The remaining 6% is used by industry and municipalities.

California could DOUBLE its human population (to 80 million) at its present per capita water use by improving agriculture's efficiency by less than 20%. That means adopting already proved water technologies, instead of using flood and sprinkler irrigation. Far from being 'technologically unsustainable', better and more widely used technology means that there is no arbitrarily fixed level of population and agriculture California can sustain while still protecting the environment.

Data source: http://www.sanfranciscobay.sierraclub.org/yodeler/html/2010/05/articl e 5.htm


And to add to Stone Meadow's already comprehensive post, urban areas only account for 15% of water usage in California. Almost all the rest is used by agriculture. And the lion's share of that is used to create farmland from the desert. You know, important crops like cotton. On land owned by oil companies and railroads. Using water bought for pennies on the dollar.
 
2014-01-26 01:04:27 AM  

Schlong Uzi: "She looked back 10 to 20 thousand years and came to the conclusion that we live in a dry climate ."

Real fine research there, Lou.


She must have done her graduate work at the Ric Romero Institute.
 
2014-01-26 01:08:22 AM  

Nemo's Brother: Or how liberal and humane they are, but their prisons are the worst in the country. They completely violate the rights of their inmates with treatment and overcrowding and have been ignoring court orders to fix the problem for well over a decade.


Newsflash:  California's a very purple state.  Liberal in the Bay Area and L.A., conservative elsewhere.  As for the prison overcrowding, the state's within spitting distance of the court's mandate.  You're on target with the medical mistreatment, though.
 
2014-01-26 01:30:49 AM  

oukewldave: The desert areas can have my Great Lakes water when they can pry it from my cold, dead hands.  Seriously, I think the next civil war will be over water.


The next civil war will be over everything made scarce by the unfolding climate catastrophe: water, food, living space in the ever-shrinking number of places that will be tolerable to live in, etc.  Oh, and the folks who want to secede to form Jesusland.

img.fark.net
 
2014-01-26 02:14:47 AM  
Lake Tahoe's huge, stick a pipe in it and we'll be good for another 100 years easy.
 
2014-01-26 02:16:41 AM  
wasnt there a congresswoman...or...politicianwoman...some lady who was proposing building a transcontinental pipeline from the mississippi to the pacific to catch all those flood waters and use it on the west coast for their water needs?

You know...thousands of miles of pipe that don't carry oil or gas...
 
2014-01-26 02:24:19 AM  

Tellingthem: frozenhotchocolate: There really isn't much that can be done. Agriculture is really what uses the vast majority of the water. While I love having fresh american grown produce while it is zero degrees where I am, it can't last much longer. If this was China water from the Midwest would already be in California, but states rights and such.

The one things that all the people around here can agree on is don't touch the Great Lakes. Even teamed up with the Canucks on this. Hell just the mention of the idea get people all riled up. It's kind of nice actually that we are so protective of them...in a way.

\Michigander


Great Lakes people need to unclench about westerners stealing Great Lakes water. We're going to go after the Columbia River first, and that should do us for at least a few generations. The only people who are going to take Great Lakes water are other midwesterners, who will need it to quench pastures parched by climate change so you all can keep putting cheese all over everything you eat.
 
2014-01-26 02:37:21 AM  
At least we realized we were destroying Mono Lake and too action before it was too late.
 
2014-01-26 03:12:19 AM  
tomodom.com
 
2014-01-26 03:35:04 AM  

acohn: oukewldave: The desert areas can have my Great Lakes water when they can pry it from my cold, dead hands.  Seriously, I think the next civil war will be over water.

The next civil war will be over everything made scarce by the unfolding climate catastrophe: water, food, living space in the ever-shrinking number of places that will be tolerable to live in, etc.  Oh, and the folks who want to secede to form Jesusland.


Um, how about no? Does no work for you?
 
2014-01-26 04:42:10 AM  

oukewldave: The desert areas can have my Great Lakes water when they can pry it from my cold, dead hands.  Seriously, I think the next civil war will be over water.


And then places in this nation that supply you heating oil and natural gas will then deprive you of that resource. Because the best way to move this nation forward is to break into petty seflish little nation-states that refuse to help each other.
 
2014-01-26 07:52:43 AM  

Befuddled: oukewldave: The desert areas can have my Great Lakes water when they can pry it from my cold, dead hands.  Seriously, I think the next civil war will be over water.

And then places in this nation that supply you heating oil and natural gas will then deprive you of that resource. Because the best way to move this nation forward is to break into petty seflish little nation-states that refuse to help each other.


Because the right thing to do is let the Great Lakes turn into the next Aral Sea?
 
2014-01-26 08:30:53 AM  

TV's Vinnie: Since the 1500's? Did the Yokut tribe have meteorological and data recording equipment?


Tree rings.
 
2014-01-26 08:43:36 AM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Stone Meadow: 2wolves: Stone Meadow: Yeah, except no. Ignoring most of your screed, let's dispense with the "imported water" urban legend.

But building two major cities in arid zones is a good idea?  The Colorado used to be a salmon river.

Los Angeles has averaged 14.98 inches, per annum, per year since 1877.  Unsustainable given today's technology.

Oh, nonsense. Of the 43 MAF of water used in California to directly sustain human life (ignoring the 39 MAF used to protect the environment), 34 MAF...or 81%...is used by agriculture, with all 38 million people using just 5.6 MAF...just 13%...for household water. The remaining 6% is used by industry and municipalities.

California could DOUBLE its human population (to 80 million) at its present per capita water use by improving agriculture's efficiency by less than 20%. That means adopting already proved water technologies, instead of using flood and sprinkler irrigation. Far from being 'technologically unsustainable', better and more widely used technology means that there is no arbitrarily fixed level of population and agriculture California can sustain while still protecting the environment.

Data source: http://www.sanfranciscobay.sierraclub.org/yodeler/html/2010/05/articl e 5.htm

And to add to Stone Meadow's already comprehensive post, urban areas only account for 15% of water usage in California. Almost all the rest is used by agriculture. And the lion's share of that is used to create farmland from the desert. You know, important crops like cotton. On land owned by oil companies and railroads. Using water bought for pennies on the dollar.


http://www.lawaterrestrictions.net/

"If we all work together we can potentially avoid mandatory conservation measures or rationing and help ensure there is enough water for everyone, including families, farmers, schools and businesses," Brown said.
 
2014-01-26 11:12:02 AM  

Befuddled: oukewldave: The desert areas can have my Great Lakes water when they can pry it from my cold, dead hands.  Seriously, I think the next civil war will be over water.

And then places in this nation that supply you heating oil and natural gas will then deprive you of that resource. Because the best way to move this nation forward is to break into petty seflish little nation-states that refuse to help each other.


Actually, we're good for that sort of thing.  We have oil and natural gas and then we make electricity with hydroelectric and nuclear power, and more and more wind turbines are going up every day, too.
 
2014-01-26 11:34:59 AM  

2wolves: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Stone Meadow: California could DOUBLE its human population (to 80 million) at its present per capita water use by improving agriculture's efficiency by less than 20%. That means adopting already proved water technologies, instead of using flood and sprinkler irrigation. Far from being 'technologically unsustainable', better and more widely used technology means that there is no arbitrarily fixed level of population and agriculture California can sustain while still protecting the environment.

Data source: http://www.sanfranciscobay.sierraclub.org/yodeler/html/2010/05/articl e 5.htm

And to add to Stone Meadow's already comprehensive post, urban areas only account for 15% of water usage in California. Almost all the rest is used by agriculture. And the lion's share of that is used to create farmland from the desert. You know, important crops like cotton. On land owned by oil companies and railroads. Using water bought for pennies on the dollar.

http://www.lawaterrestrictions.net/

"If we all work together we can potentially avoid mandatory conservation measures or rationing and help ensure there is enough water for everyone, including families, farmers, schools and businesses," Brown said.


None of which changes anything I wrote. The drought aside, California's water situation is a challenge of ALLOCATION...nothing more. There is a metric ass-ton of water available here, and in due time demographics and the laws will adapt to make whatever changes are needed. Your reply also does nothing to bolster your claim that California "imports" an inappropriate amount of water to wastefully maintain its lifestyle. That's simply not true. What little water we get from the Colorado River is used almost exclusively to grow crops in the Imperial Valley for export to the rest of the US during the winter.
 
2014-01-26 03:32:24 PM  
So, is it about time to patent a Stillsuit?
 
2014-01-26 10:39:26 PM  
The Red areas of California very much like how our prisons are overcrowded hellholes, and love the long sentences. The continual war between Red and Blue prevents any sort of meaningful change from happening.

Don't mistake California's prison woes for approval of our entire population. Many like me are rather pissed off about it.
 
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