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(SeattlePI)   Defying all medical reason and a judge's order, Fort Worth hospital considers appeal because they 'have a duty to protect the fetus'   (seattlepi.com) divider line 344
    More: Followup, Hospital considers, duty to protect, pregnancy, fetus, John Peter Smith Hospital  
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6678 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jan 2014 at 3:39 PM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-25 04:42:35 PM
It seems that the fact that both parents are EMTs with DNR requests has relevance here. Also, an apparent EMT is posting some fairly heinous fullcappery demanding the death of the baby. But it's hospital staff who want to take extraordinary measures to keep the pregnant woman alive.

One conclusion that can be drawn from this is that if you fall ill or have an accident, you'd better hope like fark you hang on until make it to the floor of the ER.
 
2014-01-25 04:42:36 PM

SilentStrider: They only want to keep the fetus alive in the hopes that it will grow up to vote Republican.


The mother's brain dead. She's already qualified to vote Republican.
 
2014-01-25 04:44:47 PM
This lawyer is human scum.  THERE IS NO FETUS. It is grossly deformed and it's brain is a bag of fluid. It is DEAD. She is  DEAD. Let them go in peace and the family mourn.

Let who go in peace?  If they're dead, aren't they already gone in peace?  But I haven't seen anything (at least in this article) to indicate the fetus is "dead" or under in the medical state you accuse.  The defense claimed there were abnormalities but there wasn't any indication of what those abnormalities might be.

It's funny how when it comes to abortion, a fetus is just a random clump of cells which may be discarded as readily as in any other surgery.  But when it's on life support suddenly it becomes a person again, deserving "death with dignity."  And of course the raison d'être of abortion is "women's health," but when there's no longer any hazard or consequence to the woman, the position doesn't change.

I would have thought the pro-choice position would be far closer to not caring what happens to still living cells of non-persons.  Instead, they seem more concerned about it than the people who honestly believe a human life is at stake.
 
2014-01-25 04:46:13 PM
MechaPyx:   I can appreciate wanting to err on the side of caution and protecting the life of an unborn child but what they're doing is asinine. The fetus is not viable. It's time to let it go.


* The 14-week fetus was already unviable two months ago, on November 28th, when the mother died and her brain ceased all activity.  She was never in a coma.  She was never vegetative.  She was DEAD.

* This was and is NOT 'caution.'  This is morbid madness endorsed and enforced by a fundamentalist ideological machine that cannot think or empathize with human reality.
 
2014-01-25 04:51:30 PM
No matter how this ends, all that will have been accomplished is for a tragedy to have been made even more tragic. I feel so bad for the family involved.
 
2014-01-25 04:51:36 PM

FormatSlacker: The defense claimed there were abnormalities but there wasn't any indication of what those abnormalities might be.


That was in a previous article actually.  Without going back to look it up and get all the details, the fetus is hydro cephalic and the lower portion is deformed such that its genitals and legs are not really there.

FormatSlacker: But when it's on life support suddenly it becomes a person again, deserving "death with dignity."


The woman is on life support and deserves death with dignity.  Going against the wishes of her, her family and her husband is one problem.  Another is the people trying to justify this bizarre medical experimentation of zombie birth.

FormatSlacker: I would have thought the pro-choice position would be far closer to not caring what happens to still living cells of non-persons. Instead, they seem more concerned about it than the people who honestly believe a human life is at stake.


You only reveal your own ignorance.
 
2014-01-25 04:53:47 PM
letrole: It seems that the fact that both parents are EMTs with DNR requests has relevance here. Also, an apparent EMT is posting some fairly heinous fullcappery demanding the death of the baby. But it's hospital staff who want to take extraordinary measures to keep the pregnant woman alive.

One conclusion that can be drawn from this is that if you fall ill or have an accident, you'd better hope like fark you hang on until make it to the floor of the ER.


Less obvious next time, m'kay? No points. Really, you kind of suck at this.
 
2014-01-25 04:54:23 PM
It's OK. I hear the hospital has a very competent doctor caring for her, a Dr. J. Mengele.
 
2014-01-25 04:54:39 PM

geek_mars: No matter how this ends, all that will have been accomplished is for a tragedy to have been made even more tragic. I feel so bad for the family involved.


To be fair, their version of the Aristocrats beats even Gilbert Gottfried's.
 
2014-01-25 04:55:34 PM

FormatSlacker: This lawyer is human scum.  THERE IS NO FETUS. It is grossly deformed and it's brain is a bag of fluid. It is DEAD. She is  DEAD. Let them go in peace and the family mourn.

Let who go in peace?  If they're dead, aren't they already gone in peace?  But I haven't seen anything (at least in this article) to indicate the fetus is "dead" or under in the medical state you accuse.  The defense claimed there were abnormalities but there wasn't any indication of what those abnormalities might be.

It's funny how when it comes to abortion, a fetus is just a random clump of cells which may be discarded as readily as in any other surgery.  But when it's on life support suddenly it becomes a person again, deserving "death with dignity."  And of course the raison d'être of abortion is "women's health," but when there's no longer any hazard or consequence to the woman, the position doesn't change.

I would have thought the pro-choice position would be far closer to not caring what happens to still living cells of non-persons.  Instead, they seem more concerned about it than the people who honestly believe a human life is at stake.


And here I thought conservatives were interested in family values.  Can you even imagine what this family is going through?  No, of course not empathy is foreign to you.
 
2014-01-25 04:56:01 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: It's OK. I hear the hospital has a very competent doctor caring for her, a Dr. J. Mengele.


It is more likely to be one of those Tleixu from Dune.
 
2014-01-25 04:57:30 PM
Tragic situation.

If this were my daughter, I'd make a strongly worded post on Fark.
 
2014-01-25 04:57:41 PM
To the Ft. Worth Hospital ASSHOLES:

Just let the dead woman and her doomed baby go.


Jesus, this story is just so nasty.
 
2014-01-25 04:58:16 PM

JoieD'Zen: It's my understanding that the drugs being given the mother are horribly toxic and should never be given to a pregnant woman.
Correct?


Resuscitation Drugs tend to be Pregnancy Category B-D, but withholding them tends to promote death. It's a case where you either give the drug and save what you can, or they die.
 
2014-01-25 04:59:14 PM

letrole: One conclusion that can be drawn from this is that if you fall ill or have an accident, you'd better hope like fark you hang on until make it to the floor of the ER.


Yeah, like you believe in things like "medicine" and "science" to begin with. All you care about is whether or not your religious beliefs are vindicated. Here's a hint: in this case, they are not. Unless you consider a non-viable fetus inside a medically dead woman to be a fetus. Even medical science does not.
 
2014-01-25 04:59:44 PM

Gergesa: The woman is on life support and deserves death with dignity. Going against the wishes of her, her family and her husband is one problem. Another is the people trying to justify this bizarre medical experimentation of zombie birth.


I'm morbidly curious about the legal implications of this fetus if it's brought to term and "birthed." Can a dead woman be listed as a mother on a birth certificate in Texas? Would the baby be a citizen, being born a dead woman? I'm really confused thinking of the repercussions of incubating fetuses in the bodies of dead women.
 
2014-01-25 05:00:31 PM
FormatSlacker: Moronic drivel.

Congradulations. People like you are the exact reason I have a living will and advanced directives at 28 years old, and relatively healthy.

This has nothing to do with abortion. The fetus is non-viable. It doesn't even have a brain. You are prolonging the life of a brain-dead woman via artificial ventilation and external feeding for NO reason what so ever. Against her documented wishes.

You're coming off as a sociopathic monster who doesn't even know what he's arguing about when you post stuff like this.
 
2014-01-25 05:01:26 PM

wildcardjack: Their reason originally was to stay in line with state law. State Judge decrees that removal of life support should go forward. I don't see the problem here, unless there's some fantasy about being brought to some sort of trial for following a judge's orders. And then were in Kafka.


It's already deep into Eraserhead territory.
 
2014-01-25 05:01:52 PM
How long until a family member says " enough of this shiat" and grabs a gun, goes to the hospital and pulls the plug themself?
 
2014-01-25 05:03:12 PM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Can a dead woman be listed as a mother on a birth certificate in Texas? Would the baby be a citizen, being born a dead woman?


The baby would be dead, mercifully so. In rare cases, they have lived up to a year of life, dependent on tube feedings and a ventilator.
 
2014-01-25 05:03:18 PM

hardinparamedic: JoieD'Zen: It's my understanding that the drugs being given the mother are horribly toxic and should never be given to a pregnant woman.
Correct?

Resuscitation Drugs tend to be Pregnancy Category B-D, but withholding them tends to promote death. It's a case where you either give the drug and save what you can, or they die.


Wouldn't the meds cause severe deformities in a fetus?
This whole thing is an inhuman religious/political/power show.
 
2014-01-25 05:04:26 PM

SilentStrider: They only want to keep the fetus alive in the hopes that it will grow up to vote Republican.


Well if its dead, it will end up a democrat registered voter. And if its brain dead, it will be a democrat registered voter that votes several times in one election being bussed from polling station to polling station.
 
2014-01-25 05:07:05 PM
mark12A: What happens next time when the mother gets brain damaged in an accident, and a perfectly healthy baby is inside her?
 
A whole lot of people are not too eager about establishing a precedent for unplugging pregnant women.

Seems like a whole lot MORE want this baby dead.


There isn't a baby, there is a fetus.  And it's not even a healthy fetus.


And the mother isn't "brain damaged", she is dead.
 
2014-01-25 05:07:15 PM

JoieD'Zen: Wouldn't the meds cause severe deformities in a fetus?


The severe deformities in this case were caused by the fetus being starved of oxygen for a prolonged period of time, resulting in severe ischemic/anoxic injuries and cell death of oxygen-sensitive tissues. A pregnant woman's body will treat a fetus as a non-essential organ system in shock or distress, and will shunt blood away from the uterus the same it would from the extremities or the intestines/kidneys. It's one of the reasons you're taught to look for subtle changes and intervene before the mom gets into distress, because at that point the fetus has been in distress for some time.
 
2014-01-25 05:08:24 PM

hardinparamedic: JoieD'Zen: It's my understanding that the drugs being given the mother are horribly toxic and should never be given to a pregnant woman.
Correct?

Resuscitation Drugs tend to be Pregnancy Category B-D, but withholding them tends to promote death. It's a case where you either give the drug and save what you can, or they die.


So basically, to "save" this fetus, they're farking it up even MORE?

There are no words for how farking disgustingly evil this all is. Prolonging the family's tragedy and wasting time, money and resources, all so that the "social conservative" scum can screech about how pro-life they are for political points. It's shiat like this that makes me wish there was a Hell.
 
2014-01-25 05:10:34 PM
So what's to stop the husband from getting his family, friends and supporters to block the way while he disconnects the system? Not trying to ITG, but I'm close enough to where I'd be down for helping him with something like that.
 
2014-01-25 05:10:53 PM
letrole: One conclusion that can be drawn from this is that if you fall ill or have an accident, you'd better hope like fark you hang on until make it to the floor of the ER.

cameroncrazy1984: Yeah, like you believe in things like "medicine" and "science" to begin with. All you care about is whether or not your religious beliefs are vindicated. Here's a hint: in this case, they are not. Unless you consider a non-viable fetus inside a medically dead woman to be a fetus. Even medical science does not.

No dear, all I care about is some fellow with trade-school qualifications making a unilateral decision to let me die. The main body of you comment shows what a farking obsessive idiot you are, and doesn't rate a thoughtful reply.
 
2014-01-25 05:11:04 PM
This will resolve itself when the only thing that can keep the woman's body going is stem cells.
 
2014-01-25 05:11:28 PM

sheep snorter: Pro-life is actually Pro-birth.

anti-sex.

FTFY
 
2014-01-25 05:11:56 PM

bluenovaman: So what's to stop the husband from getting his family, friends and supporters to block the way while he disconnects the system? Not trying to ITG, but I'm close enough to where I'd be down for helping him with something like that.


I'm wondering if, supposing the husband did something to this effect, they would bring him up on charges.
 
2014-01-25 05:12:19 PM

bluenovaman: So what's to stop the husband from getting his family, friends and supporters to block the way while he disconnects the system? Not trying to ITG, but I'm close enough to where I'd be down for helping him with something like that.


Technically, if there was a court order blocking removal from life support he could be charged with first or second degree murder for doing that.

LordJiro: So basically, to "save" this fetus, they're farking it up even MORE?

There are no words for how farking disgustingly evil this all is. Prolonging the family's tragedy and wasting time, money and resources, all so that the "social conservative" scum can screech about how pro-life they are for political points. It's shiat like this that makes me wish there was a Hell.


Yep.
 
2014-01-25 05:12:44 PM
So which of the hospital employees is volunteering to pay the hospital bills and take financial responsibility for the "distinctly abnormal" fetus they care so much about?


Anyone?  Bueller?

Okay then STFU.
 
2014-01-25 05:14:10 PM

Trillian Astra: bluenovaman: So what's to stop the husband from getting his family, friends and supporters to block the way while he disconnects the system? Not trying to ITG, but I'm close enough to where I'd be down for helping him with something like that.

I'm wondering if, supposing the husband did something to this effect, they would bring him up on charges.


Possibly, but you get me on that jury and he goes home.

/jury nullification ftw
 
2014-01-25 05:14:23 PM
So since they're keeping the woman's body functioning until they can dig out the fetus that won't live, does that mean the family will get to pay for two funerals? Wouldn't the fetus at that point be considered a still birth and wouldn't it need it's own birth and death certificates?
 
2014-01-25 05:14:25 PM
Here, have some crazy:

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/judge-to-hospital-remove-pregnant-m om -from-life-support-according-to-husban

"We are appalled by Judge Wallace's order to terminate life support for Marlise Munoz and her baby," said Troy Newman of Operation Rescue in a statement following the ruling. "The order is the equivalent of signing a death sentence for Baby Munoz. We utterly reject the false notion that Marlise's body is a rotting corpse, which is impossible since a decaying body cannot support the life of a baby for weeks, as Marlise has."

Then read the comments.
 
2014-01-25 05:14:51 PM

letrole: No dear, all I care about is some fellow with trade-school qualifications making a unilateral decision to let me die


EMTs don't make that decision, dumbass.
 
2014-01-25 05:15:43 PM

cameroncrazy1984: letrole: No dear, all I care about is some fellow with trade-school qualifications making a unilateral decision to let me die

EMTs don't make that decision, dumbass.


You're arguing with somebody literally named "The troll".
 
2014-01-25 05:18:40 PM

LordJiro: cameroncrazy1984: letrole: No dear, all I care about is some fellow with trade-school qualifications making a unilateral decision to let me die

EMTs don't make that decision, dumbass.

You're arguing with somebody literally named "The troll".


I know. But sometimes I like an easy target.
 
2014-01-25 05:19:20 PM
As a prolife catholic, I have to say in this case close your eyes ask god to take these two into his hands and pull the plug.
 
2014-01-25 05:19:35 PM
letrole: No dear, all I care about is some fellow with trade-school qualifications making a unilateral decision to let me die.

cameroncrazy1984: EMTs don't make that decision, dumbass.


Most idiots are either ignorant, or just stupid. You are both. Nevertheless, I find your simplicity engaging.
 
2014-01-25 05:19:36 PM

hardinparamedic: Winkler County scandal


Oh God, do I even want to know what happened? What could possibly compare to this?
 
2014-01-25 05:19:37 PM

DebinCO: Then read the comments.

"The husband doesnt want to take any responsibility for the child and wants to be free to roam I think."


Uh... I think I'm done reading the comments now.
 
2014-01-25 05:20:14 PM

cameroncrazy1984: letrole: No dear, all I care about is some fellow with trade-school qualifications making a unilateral decision to let me die

EMTs don't make that decision, dumbass.


People still don't have him on ignore?
 
2014-01-25 05:21:17 PM
The only reaction I can consistently muster for this ongoing abomination is 'ARE YOU farkING KIDDING ME??'

I wonder how many of us are needed to cause a disturbance in the Force...
 
2014-01-25 05:21:39 PM

tiamet4: So which of the hospital employees is volunteering to pay the hospital bills and take financial responsibility for the "distinctly abnormal" fetus they care so much about?


Anyone?  Bueller?

Okay then STFU.


I wonder how many of the hospital staff are planning on quitting because of this debacle.  I can't imagine being the doctors, nurses, and CNAs etc are happy about this abomination of medical practice.  I'd just straight up quit.  No paycheck is worth minding a deteriorating corpse with a crackerjack prize inside.

I ghosts were real, that room, fark, that whole floor in the hospital is going to be haunted for decades.
 
2014-01-25 05:21:47 PM

ReverendJimBobHammer: dfacto: TV's Vinnie: What are these fundie sickos going to do? Stand around a wheezing ball of twisted flesh after it's born from an artificially-animated corpse and sing "Yes, Jesus loves me" while it gurgles and yowls itself to death?


Sick as that is that may be the best possible outcome.  It's harder to spew pro-life nonsense with a hideously deformed DOA baby being born.  It might actually drive it through some skulls that this is stupid and wrong.

I doubt it. They keep hearing on the Terry Schiavo case and how she was murdered. This despite the autopsy showing her brain had shriveled away to nothing and she was as dead as dead can be. Facts mean nothing to these folks.


Terry Shiavo was NOT dead. She was severely brain damaged but had some minimal brain function. Therefore, alive. This woman is dead. The two cases are apples and oranges.

/had no problem with the Terry Shiavo decision, except that it was so drawn out
//told my hubby to go ahead and use a pillow when no one is looking if I am ever her
///you all can be his witnesses
 
2014-01-25 05:21:49 PM

MeanJean: hardinparamedic: Winkler County scandal

Oh God, do I even want to know what happened? What could possibly compare to this?


Here is the entire history of the Winkler County Nurse scandal. It's worth a read if you want to see how insane things can be in Texas. It's got everything: Official Misconduct, Stalking, Abuse of the Judicial System, using moles to get information to harass whistleblowers, the works.
 
2014-01-25 05:22:01 PM
FormatSlacker:   Let who go in peace?

Let her body and her family go in peace.

When her kidneys fail, should she receive organ donation ahead of actual living people because fetus?

The husband said:  "Her limbs have become so stiff and rigid due to her deteriorating condition that now, when I move her hands, her bones crack, and her legs are nothing more than dead weight."  When her steel-hard muscle contractures keep them from strapping her flat to the table for C-section, should staff just break her bones for improved surgical access to her stomach because fetus?

She died at 14 weeks' gestation, nowhere close to viability, let alone close to full-term birth.  Her husband and her parents wanted to stop medical intervention after her death to honor her very own wishes.  Why is this family not worthy to make such a painful decision without state and religious intervention?

Why are both quality of life and quality of death deemed to NOT be moral imperatives by those who object to this family's deeply personal decision?
 
2014-01-25 05:23:46 PM
An open letter to the extraordinarily sick farks who support continuing to defile a corpse for political points:

Newsflash: Zygotes and fetuses fail to make it to term (aka. die) every day all around you of natural causes. Large numbers of them. It is a natural part of life. Deal with it.

Defiling a corpse to save one more, especially when the mother died at 14 weeks pregnant, is sick.

If you want to stop abortions you should support proper education and freely available birth control. These two things stop more abortions than all other efforts combined.

But you don't really want to stop abortions do you? You just want to score political points and punish naughty people who have sex. You are sick farkers.
 
2014-01-25 05:25:19 PM

letrole: Most idiots are either ignorant, or just stupid. You are both. Nevertheless, I find your simplicity engaging.


I must have missed the part where you proved me incorrect. EMTs do not make the decision as to whether to pull a patient off life support. I'm sorry you don't understand simple, basic logic.
 
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