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(BBC)   Customer: "Hi, I'd like to withdraw some money from my bank account please." Bank Teller: "Nope, unless you can tell us what it's for; and show us an itemized receipt or quote of expenses"   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 122
    More: Scary, HSBC, bank teller, bank accounts, cash withdrawals  
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18923 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jan 2014 at 12:11 PM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



122 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-25 10:26:27 AM
Customer: "I'll be closing my account please."
 
2014-01-25 10:46:34 AM

Demetrius: Customer: "I'll be closing my account please."


This.
 
2014-01-25 10:47:29 AM

Demetrius: Customer: "I'll be closing my account please."


It does seem pretty ridiculous. Putting a hold on a large and out of character debit purchase makes sense as a customer protection measure, but I can't see how preventing a withdrawal when the account holder is there in person with ID improves security.

If they're worried about people with fake IDs trying to access accounts they could just require customers to set up security questions that they'd have to answer in the event of a large out of character withdrawal.
 
2014-01-25 11:18:32 AM
"You shouldn't have to explain to your bank why you want that money. It's not theirs, it's yours."

LMAO if he really believes this.
 
2014-01-25 11:42:16 AM
"You haven't heard? I want to get my money out before the bank run starts. You do still have some cash left, don't you?"

Preferably spoken loudly during peak business hours.
 
2014-01-25 11:46:32 AM

TuteTibiImperes: If they're worried about people with fake IDs trying to access accounts they could just require customers to set up security questions that they'd have to answer in the event of a large out of character withdrawal.


My credit union does this
 
2014-01-25 12:13:41 PM

Speaker2Animals: "You shouldn't have to explain to your bank why you want that money. It's not theirs, it's yours."

LMAO if he really believes this.


He should believe this, because it's true.

The customer is allowed to close their account and take it elsewhere anytime they please.  More like "LMAO if the bank really believes this" (although it's 2014, so maybe not the LMAO part).

Just because you're willing to bend over and take it in the ass doesn't mean everyone else is.
 
2014-01-25 12:14:05 PM
Simple solution withdraw 3000 a day until empty, tell the teller to let the rest of her staff to sod off.
 
2014-01-25 12:15:02 PM

unlikely: TuteTibiImperes: If they're worried about people with fake IDs trying to access accounts they could just require customers to set up security questions that they'd have to answer in the event of a large out of character withdrawal.

My credit union does this


Lol
 
2014-01-25 12:16:25 PM

Demetrius: Customer: "I'll be closing my account please."


This.
 
2014-01-25 12:17:04 PM
"I can understand it's frustrating for customers. But if you are making the occasional large cash withdrawal, the bank wants to make sure it's the right way to make the payment."

How about fark you, it's my money, I can make payments any way I choose.
 
2014-01-25 12:17:16 PM
Isn't this the bank that was laundering money for terrorists?
 
2014-01-25 12:17:37 PM
I'm surprised banks in the US don't do this yet.

Mainly because attorneys have argued in court that if a bank doesn't try to stop Grandma from withdrawing her life savings and wiring it to her grandson in Costa Rica who got busted for DUI and lost his passport, well.....that's the banks fault and they need to reimburse Grandma.
 
2014-01-25 12:17:56 PM
see, living paycheck-to-paycheck pays off! I knew it.

/who's laughing now.
 
2014-01-25 12:20:09 PM

unlikely: TuteTibiImperes: If they're worried about people with fake IDs trying to access accounts they could just require customers to set up security questions that they'd have to answer in the event of a large out of character withdrawal.

My credit union does this


My bank (efirstbank.com) does this... if I want to do a really big transaction, I need to call ahead to the phone people so they can note in my account, and they require my password to authorize it. Originally it was a high amount, but I asked them to change it to 1,000... so if anyone tries any shenanigans without pre-authorizing, the bank both denies the transaction and calls my cell phone automatically.
 
2014-01-25 12:20:21 PM

micah1701: see, living paycheck-to-paycheck pays off! I knew it.

/who's laughing now.


They couldn't hold back my negative balance if they tried.
 
2014-01-25 12:20:49 PM

Ivo Shandor: "You haven't heard? I want to get my money out before the bank run starts. You do still have some cash left, don't you?"

Preferably spoken loudly during peak business hours.


This is the answer.

Bring a friend to say loudly "What do you mean the bank's insolvent?!"

/Simpsons did it
 
2014-01-25 12:20:56 PM
Here is a deposit slip for my new bank, the one down the street. Written on that slip is the amount of money I have in your bank, that will now be put into their bank. I'd like that in singles, please.

Itemized enough for you, baitch?
 
2014-01-25 12:22:08 PM

TuteTibiImperes: If they're worried about people with fake IDs trying to access accounts they could just require customers to set up security questions that they'd have to answer in the event of a large out of character withdrawal.


It seems likelier that they're worried of being accused of helping criminals launder money. Because HSBC has done that. A lot.

Clearly they've decided to protect themselves from further prosecution by restricting their money-laundering services to the few clients who have millions or billions of ill-gotten gains, and making a big show of being a pain in the ass to small-time criminals and, uh, . . . what do they call people who get their money honestly? "Saps", I suppose.

/ "chumps"?
 
2014-01-25 12:23:20 PM

mccallcl: Isn't this the bank that was laundering money for terrorists?


The one we foolishly let off the hook with a light slap to the wrist? Yes.
 
2014-01-25 12:24:55 PM
I need the money to pay your wife for last night. By the way you will want to have her use it to get her checked out.I need the rest of it to open an account at your competitors bank. Why you ask?
 
2014-01-25 12:25:11 PM

italie: Here is a deposit slip for my new bank, the one down the street. Written on that slip is the amount of money I have in your bank, that will now be put into their bank. I'd like that in singles, please.

Itemized enough for you, baitch?


Itemize away, if the bank loses too many customers, they'll just collect bailout money from your taxes or quantitative easing programs.

/welfare for the rich
 
2014-01-25 12:25:11 PM

Demetrius: Customer: "I'll be closing my account please."


Came here to say this.

mccallcl: Isn't this the bank that was laundering money for terrorists?


Apparently it was for mexican drug cartels.
 
2014-01-25 12:25:34 PM
When I worked as a Teller (at HSBC, actually) we had to fill out paperwork which we just referred to as the "Large Dollar" form when someone took out cash over a certain number or a bank check over a certain dollar amount. We needed ID, SS# and I think a reason for the withdrawal. We would never deny the withdrawal though, unless they refused to fill out the paperwork.

I wish I could remember the details (it's been over a decade) but I want to say it was over $5k in cash or $10k in a bank check. It was a federal law, not a bank one, and was intended to keep tabs on possible money laundering or something...

Fark. I remember so little of it this post is probably useless... sorry.
 
2014-01-25 12:26:15 PM

IanMoone: I'm surprised banks in the US don't do this yet.

Mainly because attorneys have argued in court that if a bank doesn't try to stop Grandma from withdrawing her life savings and wiring it to her grandson in Costa Rica who got busted for DUI and lost his passport, well.....that's the banks fault and they need to reimburse Grandma.


That, and someone pretending to be the owner of a bank account and trying to empty it. People cry for more protection from theft and fraud, and then complain that the efforts to prevent theft and fraud are too burdensome? Ridiculous.
 
2014-01-25 12:26:47 PM
TFBank
failure to show evidence is not a reason to refuse a withdrawal. We are writing to apologise to any customer who has been given incorrect information and inconvenienced."

That's cute.
I assume the next time someone keeps a chunk of the bank's money by overdrawing their account, they can just write a letter of apology instead of paying interest on it and maybe even fees (depending on the level of suck-assness of the bank)?


/there should be articles using this behavior as proof that the bank is running out of cash
 
2014-01-25 12:27:21 PM

Demetrius: Customer: "I'll be closing my account please."


Yup.
 
2014-01-25 12:28:14 PM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: mccallcl: Isn't this the bank that was laundering money for terrorists?

The one we foolishly let off the hook with a light slap to the wrist? Yes.


And because of their screw-up, they've had to place unrealistic anti-money laundering requirements on their customers.
 
2014-01-25 12:32:25 PM
I blame Bernanke.

"How dare those peons think they can get easy access to OUR money!!!"

-Every FED chairman ever
 
2014-01-25 12:34:34 PM
As someone who works in the car business, where people consistently make large down payments (sometimes in cash), fark this company. The customer can do what they want with their money.

I've yet to figure out WHY some people want to carry around $8000 in twenties. I guess checks don't exist in the magical land of inefficient commerce.
 
2014-01-25 12:34:36 PM
TuteTibiImperes:
If they're worried about people with fake IDs trying to access accounts they could just require customers to set up security questions that they'd have to answer in the event of a large out of character withdrawal.

Doesn't need to worry about security questions involving large sums of cash:

img142.imageshack.us

Ain't nobody got time fo' dat.
 
2014-01-25 12:36:07 PM
Coming soon to the US. The banks aready immdiately report large transactions to the fed. The bar is set somewhere
 
2014-01-25 12:36:35 PM

unlikely: TuteTibiImperes: If they're worried about people with fake IDs trying to access accounts they could just require customers to set up security questions that they'd have to answer in the event of a large out of character withdrawal.

My credit union does this


Credit Unions for the win;

Bank Vs Credit Union
Bank: Insufficient funds? $30 per transaction because you already don't have money so we will take more of what you don't have...
Credit Union: Insufficient funds? It's ok! You have a $500 line of "credit" you owe back to yourself.


pffft.  To hell with banks..
 
2014-01-25 12:40:30 PM

Demetrius: Customer: "I'll be closing my account please."


Simpler to open an account in a bank without the rule and wire transfer.
Once the transaction is complete then come in and close the account.  No need to risk having them deny you closing the account.
 
2014-01-25 12:41:54 PM
wow... Max Keiser was right!
 
2014-01-25 12:42:06 PM
 
2014-01-25 12:42:43 PM

Demetrius: Customer: "I'll be closing my account please now"

 
2014-01-25 12:43:20 PM

Demetrius: Customer: "I'll be closing my account please."


My exact thoughts!
 
2014-01-25 12:43:37 PM

Demetrius: Customer: "As I have no faith in this institution to restrain from using my funds for criminal activities, I'll be closing my account please."


FTFY
 
2014-01-25 12:44:44 PM
HSBC is (are?) slime.

I work weekends as front desk/security at an upscale independent living retirement community.  I used to get hang up calls every half hour about a year ago.  When I *69'd the number (no caller ID at that time) I called it and got an automated system with no way to talk to an actual human, but I did get that it was HSBC.  I googled them and got a couple of numbers and started calling.  First time, I got some guy in a call center in India who told me his name was Chad.  Yeah, right.  He did promise to put a do not call notation next to our number.

Second time, after they kept doing the hang up calls, I got some guy in California who finally fessed up that they were collection calls but denied they were hang ups, stating it only sounded like it as it then went direct to him or his co-workers.  I told him to stop lying, as it did not.  The only way I got him was to google his company and start calling.  I told him the person he was trying to reach never works on the weekends and that the hang up calls were interfering with a business.  I told him they were to stop and stop now or my next call would be to our state atty. general who is hell on wheels against phone collection harassment.  That woke them up and they stopped.
 
2014-01-25 12:44:51 PM

firefly212: unlikely: TuteTibiImperes: If they're worried about people with fake IDs trying to access accounts they could just require customers to set up security questions that they'd have to answer in the event of a large out of character withdrawal.

My credit union does this

My bank (efirstbank.com) does this... if I want to do a really big transaction, I need to call ahead to the phone people so they can note in my account, and they require my password to authorize it. Originally it was a high amount, but I asked them to change it to 1,000... so if anyone tries any shenanigans without pre-authorizing, the bank both denies the transaction and calls my cell phone automatically.


I dont have a problem with this as a voluntary restriction. In fact, that it is a good idea.

But the bank shouldn't need to know *why* you want the money. Only that you pre-authorise its withdrawal under specific conditions.

Its not the banks job to determine the legality of the use of the money once it has left their control.

Banks should and do keep track of movement of large amounts of currency already. And as such there will be records available if the authorities investigate wrongdoing.


If they specifically have cause to believe a customer is funding an illegal operation they shouldn't accept them as customers.

At the very least they should have at least warned the customer that the new policy was in place and added a pre authorization step that doesnt include a *why*.
 
2014-01-25 12:45:03 PM

Malacon: When I worked as a Teller (at HSBC, actually) we had to fill out paperwork which we just referred to as the "Large Dollar" form when someone took out cash over a certain number or a bank check over a certain dollar amount. We needed ID, SS# and I think a reason for the withdrawal. We would never deny the withdrawal though, unless they refused to fill out the paperwork.

I wish I could remember the details (it's been over a decade) but I want to say it was over $5k in cash or $10k in a bank check. It was a federal law, not a bank one, and was intended to keep tabs on possible money laundering or something...

Fark. I remember so little of it this post is probably useless... sorry.


You're talking about what is now called a Currency Transaction Report, for any transaction involving cash over 10,000.

You get name/business, social security number or tax ID, and a few other personal details. It's a federal law designed to prevent moneu laundering.

Some people/businesses can apply to be exempt from the requirements, but some businesses (car dealerships, restaurants, any industry that's been often used as a "front" for money laundering) can't.

There's also a Suspicious Activity Report that can involve any behavior or amount, but that's different.
 
2014-01-25 12:45:10 PM

Speaker2Animals: "You shouldn't have to explain to your bank why you want that money. It's not theirs, it's yours."

LMAO if he really believes this.


And of course government requires banks to report large transactions  as if the "large" transaction itself is probable cause.
 
2014-01-25 12:47:04 PM
 "Nope, unless you can tell us what it's for; and show us an itemized receipt or quote of expenses"

TRANSLATION:  "Something really, really bad is coming down the pike and we're not sure how much longer we can keep a lid on it."
 
2014-01-25 12:48:13 PM
This does not surprise me.  HSBC is hands down the shiattiest retail bank ever.  Unfortunately, since I have to do business in Hong Kong I have to deal with them.  Americans atleast have some retail bank competition which is not available in a lot of countries.

They charge fees for everything (yes, sort of like US banks), but on top of that, their tellers and bank officers are for the most part - morons (straight outta college). I've gotten incorrect advice on so many things.  Like how Americans can change their account to "joint" or add another party name to the account in pretty much one visit?  HSBC required me to come in several times (each time screwing up the paperwork) and signing unbelievable amounts of documents.  Eventually, we gave up.

Oh and god forbid you lose your atm card or forget your pin - that's another nightmare.  And verifying who you are?  Better make sure your signature is 100% correct (I've been forced to resign docs several times because the teller couldn't match my signature - in the US no one gives a shiat) and you bring 3 or more forms of ID.

Everyone in HK complains about HSBC.  Sure, one could bank at Standard Chartered, but I'm gonna guess its the same issues and with even less ATM locations.
 
2014-01-25 12:48:33 PM

hasty ambush: Speaker2Animals: "You shouldn't have to explain to your bank why you want that money. It's not theirs, it's yours."

LMAO if he really believes this.

And of course government requires banks to report large transactions  as if the "large" transaction itself is probable cause.


Reporting a large transaction is not the same as not giving you the money.
 
2014-01-25 12:48:44 PM
 
2014-01-25 12:50:27 PM
Not sure about British law, but not letting people have there own money legal ?
 
2014-01-25 12:58:53 PM
img.fark.net
 
2014-01-25 01:01:29 PM
This is why you don't use banks.
 
KIA
2014-01-25 01:06:54 PM

The_Philosopher_King: At least in the USA we don't limit you.

But we may just seize it all.

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/macomb_county/grocer-accuses-fed s- of-seizing-his-bank-account-for-no-good-reason-in-lawsuit


Actually, they file reports with the FBI on large cash withdrawals.
 
2014-01-25 01:07:23 PM

IanMoone: I'm surprised banks in the US don't do this yet.


They do.

Mainly because attorneys have argued in court that if a bank doesn't try to stop Grandma from withdrawing her life savings and wiring it to her grandson in Costa Rica who got busted for DUI and lost his passport, well.....that's the banks fault and they need to reimburse Grandma.

Nope.

US banks are required by the Bank Secrecy Act (as amended by the PATRIOT Act) to submit all cash transactions over $10k to FinCEN, the Treasury Department's law enforcement agency.

No reporting requirement currently exists in the UK, but transactions over £10k will be subject to enhanced diligence by the bank.

In both cases, a refusal to comply with the additional diligence requirements will result in the bank (or other financial organisation) refusing to process the transaction.
 
2014-01-25 01:10:12 PM
It's just a way to stop people from withdrawing funds. Frustrate them.

Now, the question of the day is: Why are they trying to stop people from withdrawing funds?

Scary answer: The don't have the fungible resources to cover them. They lost it.
 
2014-01-25 01:10:52 PM
All part of the banks' ongoing attempt to shift all risk and responsibility for banking onto the consumer rather than the bank.  As usual, Mitchell and Webb have covered it brilliantly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E
 
2014-01-25 01:11:54 PM

Malacon: I wish I could remember the details (it's been over a decade) but I want to say it was over $5k in cash or $10k in a bank check. It was a federal law, not a bank one, and was intended to keep tabs on possible money laundering or something...



Sounds like the Bank Secrecy Act. The thing is, the threshold has never been adjusted for inflation and there is no indication it will be in the foreseeable future. The limit introduced in 1970 is $10,000, equivalent to $60,000 today yet the threshold remains at $10k. By the time I'm old enough to retire I expect banks will be required to report when I withdraw cash to buy groceries. But the NSA will probably know about it before the the bank employees do.
 
2014-01-25 01:12:59 PM
That's the same bank that got caught red handed with laundered cartel money, wasn't it?

Looks like they're playing it safe this time lol.
 
2014-01-25 01:14:16 PM

Katrushkak: Malacon: When I worked as a Teller (at HSBC, actually) we had to fill out paperwork which we just referred to as the "Large Dollar" form when someone took out cash over a certain number or a bank check over a certain dollar amount. We needed ID, SS# and I think a reason for the withdrawal. We would never deny the withdrawal though, unless they refused to fill out the paperwork.

I wish I could remember the details (it's been over a decade) but I want to say it was over $5k in cash or $10k in a bank check. It was a federal law, not a bank one, and was intended to keep tabs on possible money laundering or something...

Fark. I remember so little of it this post is probably useless... sorry.

You're talking about what is now called a Currency Transaction Report, for any transaction involving cash over 10,000.

You get name/business, social security number or tax ID, and a few other personal details. It's a federal law designed to prevent moneu laundering.

Some people/businesses can apply to be exempt from the requirements, but some businesses (car dealerships, restaurants, any industry that's been often used as a "front" for money laundering) can't.

There's also a Suspicious Activity Report that can involve any behavior or amount, but that's different.


IIRC this is also known as a "Form 8300"

I used to work at a car dealer and this came up a few times.
 
2014-01-25 01:17:35 PM
The Mrs. got a rather large inheritance check last year, and our bank (we've banked there for 10+ years) advised us that the majority of it wouldn't be available for 7-10 days, citing "policy". I took that translation to mean "because fark you, that's why", and went to look up US federal law on the subject...

Basically, the law says that banks are allowed to hold any check deposits over $5K (single or aggregate) for 7 business days at the bank's discretion. Even if they can verify within 30 seconds that it's legit, they can hold it for 7 business days and make interest on it. Of course, if you're a "whale" customer and object, they'll release the funds immediately, because it's at the bank's discretion.

So, it's federal law that's allowing the banks to make a little bit of extra scratch off large deposits for no reason. I know this is just tangentially related to TFA, but it pisses me off.

Needless to say, we're a credit union now.
 
2014-01-25 01:18:52 PM

Malacon: When I worked as a Teller (at HSBC, actually) we had to fill out paperwork which we just referred to as the "Large Dollar" form when someone took out cash over a certain number or a bank check over a certain dollar amount. We needed ID, SS# and I think a reason for the withdrawal. We would never deny the withdrawal though, unless they refused to fill out the paperwork.

I wish I could remember the details (it's been over a decade) but I want to say it was over $5k in cash or $10k in a bank check. It was a federal law, not a bank one, and was intended to keep tabs on possible money laundering or something...

Fark. I remember so little of it this post is probably useless... sorry.


So, if someone wrote "hookers and blow" under reason, would you still approve the withdrawal? Because I would write "hookers and blow" every time. Just because.
 
2014-01-25 01:19:14 PM

Skunkwolf: It's just a way to stop people from withdrawing funds. Frustrate them.

Now, the question of the day is: Why are they trying to stop people from withdrawing funds?

Scary answer: The don't have the fungible resources to cover them. They lost it.


The realistic answer: They're hamstrung by suspicious transaction reporting laws and have an executive or legal counsel with a stupid idea to avoid paperwork. The only part that's even remotely correct is the idea that banks don't have on-hand currency to cover large withdraws; they don't. Tellers and loan officers don't have access to money outside of their drawer, and even the vault accountant is limited to how much they can sign out at any one time (not to mention the cameras). Banks don't have cash because cash is heavy, stinky, awkward, and the source of lots of paperwork.
 
2014-01-25 01:23:18 PM

gt4pete: Katrushkak: Malacon: When I worked as a Teller (at HSBC, actually) we had to fill out paperwork which we just referred to as the "Large Dollar" form when someone took out cash over a certain number or a bank check over a certain dollar amount. We needed ID, SS# and I think a reason for the withdrawal. We would never deny the withdrawal though, unless they refused to fill out the paperwork.

I wish I could remember the details (it's been over a decade) but I want to say it was over $5k in cash or $10k in a bank check. It was a federal law, not a bank one, and was intended to keep tabs on possible money laundering or something...

Fark. I remember so little of it this post is probably useless... sorry.

You're talking about what is now called a Currency Transaction Report, for any transaction involving cash over 10,000.

You get name/business, social security number or tax ID, and a few other personal details. It's a federal law designed to prevent moneu laundering.

Some people/businesses can apply to be exempt from the requirements, but some businesses (car dealerships, restaurants, any industry that's been often used as a "front" for money laundering) can't.

There's also a Suspicious Activity Report that can involve any behavior or amount, but that's different.

IIRC this is also known as a "Form 8300"

I used to work at a car dealer and this came up a few times.


Spoke too soon, 8300 is for non-bank businesses.  Form 104 is the Currency Transaction Report for banks:   http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/fin104_ctr.pdf
 
2014-01-25 01:24:34 PM

Katrushkak: You're talking about what is now called a Currency Transaction Report, for any transaction involving cash over 10,000.

You get name/business, social security number or tax ID, and a few other personal details. It's a federal law designed to prevent moneu laundering.


Exactly. FinCEN's best practice guidelines* include making a record of the reason for the transaction prior to submitting the CTR, in case a pattern of transactions arises which constitutes grounds for a Suspicious Activity Report.

Don't want to give the teller this information? That's OK, she doesn't have to process the transaction.  Probably worth bearing in mind that, in itself, is arguably grounds for a SAR...

*guidelines in the sense of 'do as we say or someone might get hurt'
 
2014-01-25 01:27:20 PM
Haven't seen It's a Wonderful Life? Your money is not in the vault in the back. It's in Bob's house. And John's house. And Mac's farm.
 
2014-01-25 01:28:11 PM
Reporting a large suspicious transaction is standard. Denying a customer cash without proof of what it's for is not.

In any case, I would have thought large deposits of cash were more suspicious but I have never known a bank yet get funny with anyone for pulling that one.
 
2014-01-25 01:28:12 PM

gt4pete: Form 104 is the Currency Transaction Report for banks


FinCEN Report 112, as of April 1 2013, since BSA E-Filing became mandatory.
 
2014-01-25 01:33:23 PM

Demetrius: Customer: "I'll be closing my account please."


This.
 
2014-01-25 01:34:41 PM
I suspect that this is at least partially related to making sure people aren't succumbing to con men. There have been stories in the news in the past about elderly depositors coming in to take out large sums of cash. When the tellers ask them what for, they say that some cops are having them do it as part of a sting operation or some such nonsense. This sounds like a formalization of a policy to try to detect that.

That said:

HSBC has said that following customer feedback, it was changing its policy

Translation:

i40.tinypic.com
 
2014-01-25 01:38:34 PM

oh_please: The Mrs. got a rather large inheritance check last year, and our bank (we've banked there for 10+ years) advised us that the majority of it wouldn't be available for 7-10 days, citing "policy". I took that translation to mean "because fark you, that's why", and went to look up US federal law on the subject...

Basically, the law says that banks are allowed to hold any check deposits over $5K (single or aggregate) for 7 business days at the bank's discretion. Even if they can verify within 30 seconds that it's legit, they can hold it for 7 business days and make interest on it. Of course, if you're a "whale" customer and object, they'll release the funds immediately, because it's at the bank's discretion.

So, it's federal law that's allowing the banks to make a little bit of extra scratch off large deposits for no reason. I know this is just tangentially related to TFA, but it pisses me off.

Needless to say, we're a credit union now.


Damn. That's one of the reasons I chose a smaller local bank (that and the branch is like two blocks up the street), and so far I've been pretty happy. Their policy is that usually money is available the next day, which was extremely helpful when my sister had to fedex me a check for $60k for a down payment on a house closing. The check took long enough to get to me that without the bank's policy we might have had to delay it yet again. It was an inheritance thing like your wife's, only the estate wasn't quite settled yet so I didn't have the money yet.
 
2014-01-25 01:39:02 PM
Had HSBC credit card during the housing loan crisis in 2008. One month I got my statement and saw they dropped my card limit from $7,500 to $300. Yes, a $7,200 credit limit drop. I called customer service and raised a fuss saying if I had been away somewhere on vacation trying to use the card just to find the limit had dropped without warning, I'd be farked.

The customer service agent said the bank was reevaluating all customers due to the housing loan crisis and maybe in the future my limit would be raised. I cancelled the card instead as a $300 limit was useless for me and their no warning credit reduction was shiatty.
 
2014-01-25 01:42:07 PM
I'm somewhat surprised that so many Farkers have had occasion to withdraw over $10k in cash, giving them an insight into what their bank would ask where they to do so...
 
2014-01-25 01:49:57 PM
What I do with my cash is my business...right???

facesofjohnnydepp.blog.com
 
2014-01-25 02:02:35 PM

crab66: This is why you don't use banks.


THIS

I keep my bitcoins under my mattress.
 
2014-01-25 02:05:32 PM
Try taking out more than $10,000 in a US bank. They are required to log and file it with the IRS and you will be subjected to questioning, as to make sure that it's not illicit money, or legitimate money being used illicitly. "But I'll just take out $9,999 every day!" That would be flagged as a suspicious transaction.

Source: I've taken more than $10k in cash out of the bank more than once.
 
2014-01-25 02:06:53 PM
It's for hookers and blackjack. And forget the blackjack.
 
2014-01-25 02:07:43 PM

BafflerMeal: Coming soon to the US. The banks aready immdiately report large transactions to the fed. The bar is set somewhere


Single 10k transaction, or multiple smaller ones that add up to 10k in a "short" period of time, short being subjective.
 
2014-01-25 02:10:45 PM
in the nearer future Americans, corporations, etc will not need to fill out tax forms.
The tax will be taken out automatically at the bank, off the top.

Just like sales tax is paid at the register.
You can claim a deduction later, wait in the queue.
cash transactions will be frowned upon,
then made illegal. All legal payments must transact thru a bank.
Then, a little later, we won't need cash or cards....
if ya know what i'm say'n
and i think you do.
 
2014-01-25 02:10:52 PM

mccallcl: Isn't this the bank that was laundering money for terrorists?


Yes.  Most likely if you could show HSBC that the money was destined to go to South America as part of a drug deal they would let you have your cash.
 
2014-01-25 02:16:20 PM

Demetrius: Customer: "I'll be closing my account please."


"I'm sorry, Sir, you can only close your account by withdrawing all of the money in the account.
AS WE HAVE EXPLAINED TO YOU we cannot let you withdraw that much money without a valid reason."
 
2014-01-25 02:20:09 PM

Demetrius: Customer: "I'll be closing my account please."


This.
 
2014-01-25 02:25:01 PM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: mccallcl: Isn't this the bank that was laundering money for terrorists?

The one we foolishly let off the hook with a light slap to the wrist? Yes.


Ah. "It's your fault we have to act like the criminals we are. "
 
2014-01-25 02:25:30 PM

KIA: The_Philosopher_King: At least in the USA we don't limit you.

But we may just seize it all.

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/macomb_county/grocer-accuses-fed s- of-seizing-his-bank-account-for-no-good-reason-in-lawsuit

Actually, they file reports with the FBI on large cash withdrawals.


The FBI has no business getting that info outside of a warrant signed by a judge based on probable cause.
 
2014-01-25 02:32:19 PM

oh_please: The Mrs. got a rather large inheritance check last year, and our bank (we've banked there for 10+ years) advised us that the majority of it wouldn't be available for 7-10 days, citing "policy". I took that translation to mean "because fark you, that's why", and went to look up US federal law on the subject...

Basically, the law says that banks are allowed to hold any check deposits over $5K (single or aggregate) for 7 business days at the bank's discretion. Even if they can verify within 30 seconds that it's legit, they can hold it for 7 business days and make interest on it. Of course, if you're a "whale" customer and object, they'll release the funds immediately, because it's at the bank's discretion.

So, it's federal law that's allowing the banks to make a little bit of extra scratch off large deposits for no reason. I know this is just tangentially related to TFA, but it pisses me off.

Needless to say, we're a credit union now.


Banking law is slow to change, while technology races ahead.  When those laws were drafted, it was common for fraudsters to kite out-of-state checks for large amounts and disappear with the money, because it took at least 3 days to verify the transaction.  Electronic banking has changed all of that, but the laws haven't been updated because the current rules suit the banks just fine.
 
2014-01-25 02:33:28 PM

namegoeshere: Malacon: When I worked as a Teller (at HSBC, actually) we had to fill out paperwork which we just referred to as the "Large Dollar" form when someone took out cash over a certain number or a bank check over a certain dollar amount. We needed ID, SS# and I think a reason for the withdrawal. We would never deny the withdrawal though, unless they refused to fill out the paperwork.

I wish I could remember the details (it's been over a decade) but I want to say it was over $5k in cash or $10k in a bank check. It was a federal law, not a bank one, and was intended to keep tabs on possible money laundering or something...

Fark. I remember so little of it this post is probably useless... sorry.

So, if someone wrote "hookers and blow" under reason, would you still approve the withdrawal? Because I would write "hookers and blow" every time. Just because.


Of course I would. It wasn't in my power to deny the withdrawal if you filled out the paperwork.

I would probably remind you the IRS Would see the form though, and offer you another if you wished.
 
2014-01-25 02:37:23 PM
Someone could be at your house, holding your wife and children ransom.

/ It's all I got.
 
2014-01-25 02:44:14 PM
Well I WAS going to throw an extravagant surprise party for you and the other bank tellers.
 
2014-01-25 02:46:06 PM

InterruptingQuirk: Your money? LOL

[i1.ytimg.com image 480x360]


Thank you for posting that.  I lost that link last year and have been looking for it ever since.  Does a great job of telling the true story...
 
2014-01-25 02:46:10 PM
This is news? Holds on large cash/check transactions are common. When buying my house, I deposited a 6-figure check. They had to get the manager and then explained to me that because of federal anti-laundering laws, the money could sit for up to 11 business days before I could access it to put a down payment on the house.

I had a similar situation last spring when depositing a large check for a property I was buying. I'm pretty sure US laws concerning large movements of cash changed after 9/11.

FDIC Link
 
2014-01-25 02:50:45 PM

Demetrius: Customer: "I'll be closing my account please."


Done.
 
2014-01-25 02:51:32 PM
I had an account with Midland Bank - opened it in 1982. They were good to me, overdrafts and loans in the lean years of my professional training. Converted to an offshore account when I moved to the US. Then they became HSBC and things changed - fees, minimum balance etc. Fark 'em, closed the account and opened one with Nat West...
 
2014-01-25 02:56:02 PM

Demetrius: Customer: "I'll be closing my account please."


THIS.  I would respond to that line about "we don't need to pre-inform you because we didn't change your contract" with, "well, I don't need to pre-inform you that I am now closing my account."  Its completely absurd that they wouldn't let someone have their own money.
 
2014-01-25 02:56:54 PM
Who needs cash anyway?
I pay in cash maybe a couple of times a year. Many bank branches in Norway don't even have cash available anymore, but you can use your debit card to withdraw a few thousands in cash in most shops.
Around here people use debit cards to pay for everything. Bills, cars and other expensive items are paid by online banking.
 
2014-01-25 03:10:01 PM

Launchpad1986: Demetrius: Customer: "I'll be closing my account please."

My exact thoughts!


My uncle did something like this when I was a kid, pre-atm he stopped at the bank to grab some cash so we could have lunch while we were in town. The teller wanted to charge him a quarter to cash a check on his account at the bank. He asked why and she just said "because" so he got loud and asked if the bank didn't have enough to cover a $25 check or maybe checks written on accounts at their bank were no good or maybe they didn't trust their own customers, as a 10 year old I had a hard time keeping a straight face while he did this whole over the top street theater thing for the other customers. He ended up performing in front of the bank manager and assitant manager and after getting a few concessions from them closed the account.

Yeah he was a jerk but funny.
 
2014-01-25 03:11:32 PM

Warlordtrooper: The FBI has no business getting that info outside of a warrant signed by a judge based on probable cause.


Meanwhile, back in reality, BSA/AML was signed into law 44 years ago, tightened up by Title III of the PATRIOT Act, and has met with no significant legal challenges, although the information is collected by FinCEN, not the FBI.
 
2014-01-25 03:13:11 PM
Cash is only for small stuff, anything larger use a debitcard. It's much more convenient and safer for everybody.

In Denmark it's illegal to buy anything for cash, that cost over 2000$. (This law was created because members of Hells Angels were getting wellfare, while having a large illegal income at the same time)
 
2014-01-25 03:46:42 PM

netringer: Demetrius: Customer: "I'll be closing my account please."

"I'm sorry, Sir, you can only close your account by withdrawing all of the money in the account.
AS WE HAVE EXPLAINED TO YOU we cannot let you withdraw that much money without a valid reason."


"I gave you a valid reason for the withdrawal, I'm closing my account."
 
2014-01-25 03:54:32 PM
something tells me that they don't ask investment bankers whether they are going to spend all that cash on cocaine.
 
2014-01-25 04:02:13 PM

oh_please: The Mrs. got a rather large inheritance check last year, and our bank (we've banked there for 10+ years) advised us that the majority of it wouldn't be available for 7-10 days, citing "policy". I took that translation to mean "because fark you, that's why", and went to look up US federal law on the subject...

Basically, the law says that banks are allowed to hold any check deposits over $5K (single or aggregate) for 7 business days at the bank's discretion. Even if they can verify within 30 seconds that it's legit, they can hold it for 7 business days and make interest on it. Of course, if you're a "whale" customer and object, they'll release the funds immediately, because it's at the bank's discretion.

So, it's federal law that's allowing the banks to make a little bit of extra scratch off large deposits for no reason. I know this is just tangentially related to TFA, but it pisses me off.

Needless to say, we're a credit union now.


Right. Because nobody ever submits a bad or stolen check and withdraws some or all of the cash before it is discovered or disputed.
 
2014-01-25 04:17:52 PM
Meh, the bank made a slightly ham-fisted adjustment to their security protocols in an attempt to prevent/deter fraud, but then fairly quickly abandoned the policy when they found it pissed off more customers than expected.
 
2014-01-25 04:21:13 PM

MrSteve007: This is news? Holds on large cash/check transactions are common. When buying my house, I deposited a 6-figure check. They had to get the manager and then explained to me that because of federal anti-laundering laws, the money could sit for up to 11 business days before I could access it to put a down payment on the house.

I had a similar situation last spring when depositing a large check for a property I was buying. I'm pretty sure US laws concerning large movements of cash changed after 9/11.

FDIC Link


I'm liking my bank more and more as I read these things...
 
2014-01-25 04:46:17 PM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: "I can understand it's frustrating for customers. But if you are making the occasional large cash withdrawal, the bank wants to make sure it's the right way to make the payment."

How about fark you, it's my money, I can make payments any way I choose.


"Sorry sir, we've run your suggestion through our gigantic faceless bureaucracy and it's been disagreed with. If you wish to appeal the decision, please complete form 7645-11(b) and submit it to our appeals office. The address is not currently available.

"Thank you for your business. We realize you have a choice in financial institutions, which is one reason why we want to make it as difficult as possible for you to withdraw from your account."
 
2014-01-25 05:01:37 PM
Wow, I wonder why 0fuk0 hasn't implemented this rule yet. You didn't save that.
 
2014-01-25 05:03:25 PM
Yay socialism.
 
2014-01-25 05:09:56 PM

AngryDragon: Ivo Shandor: "You haven't heard? I want to get my money out before the bank run starts. You do still have some cash left, don't you?"

Preferably spoken loudly during peak business hours.

This is the answer.

Bring a friend to say loudly "What do you mean the bank's insolvent?!"

/Simpsons did it


Joking aside, how I think it would happen is that the burly security guard pins you on the floor and they get the cops involved. Then you get charged with whatever they charge people who should 'FIRE' in a crowded cinema. Later on a jugde goes to town on your savings account, paying it off then also requiring having to explain to a teller than you're withdrawing the large sum of money to pay a fine for a charge that started in that very branch.

At some point you then remember this is HSBC and they were completely ok laundering money for the cartels a couple years ago and got such a small fine it barely appeared on their radar.
 
2014-01-25 05:11:00 PM

Skunkwolf: It's just a way to stop people from withdrawing funds. Frustrate them.

Now, the question of the day is: Why are they trying to stop people from withdrawing funds?

Scary answer: The don't have the fungible resources to cover them. They lost it.


Thanks for letting us know that you have no idea how banks work.
 
2014-01-25 05:29:23 PM

Cranky McOldfart: Skunkwolf: It's just a way to stop people from withdrawing funds. Frustrate them.

Now, the question of the day is: Why are they trying to stop people from withdrawing funds?

Scary answer: The don't have the fungible resources to cover them. They lost it.

Thanks for letting us know that you have no idea how banks work.



But he did use the word fungible correctly. Surely that counts for half credit.
 
2014-01-25 06:10:58 PM

IanMoone: I'm surprised banks in the US don't do this yet.

Mainly because attorneys have argued in court that if a bank doesn't try to stop Grandma from withdrawing her life savings and wiring it to her grandson in Costa Rica who got busted for DUI and lost his passport, well.....that's the banks fault and they need to reimburse Grandma.


Edumacate yourself about the ways the banks (and all other Money Service Businesses) are compelled to report transactions to the Feds in accordance with the Bank Secrecy Act.
 
2014-01-25 06:13:17 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Demetrius: Customer: "I'll be closing my account please."

It does seem pretty ridiculous. Putting a hold on a large and out of character debit purchase makes sense as a customer protection measure, but I can't see how preventing a withdrawal when the account holder is there in person with ID improves security.

If they're worried about people with fake IDs trying to access accounts they could just require customers to set up security questions that they'd have to answer in the event of a large out of character withdrawal.


Security questions?

You mean those really asinine questions they make you fill out to recover your password, so you put in something about some car you once owned, and then promptly forget what you put, only to be asked the stupid question a few years later?

Yeah.  Brilliant idea.
 
2014-01-25 06:19:55 PM

CptnSpldng: IanMoone: I'm surprised banks in the US don't do this yet.

Mainly because attorneys have argued in court that if a bank doesn't try to stop Grandma from withdrawing her life savings and wiring it to her grandson in Costa Rica who got busted for DUI and lost his passport, well.....that's the banks fault and they need to reimburse Grandma.

Edumacate yourself about the ways the banks (and all other Money Service Businesses) are compelled to report transactions to the Feds in accordance with the Bank Secrecy Act.


If over 10k in one transaction. This story was starting at 5k (in pounds granted but still)

The lawsuits are involving amounts under 10k. People are no longer responsible for their actions if there is someone with deeper pockets to blame.
 
2014-01-25 06:28:32 PM

oh_please: The Mrs. got a rather large inheritance check last year, and our bank (we've banked there for 10+ years) advised us that the majority of it wouldn't be available for 7-10 days, citing "policy". I took that translation to mean "because fark you, that's why", and went to look up US federal law on the subject...

Basically, the law says that banks are allowed to hold any check deposits over $5K (single or aggregate) for 7 business days at the bank's discretion. Even if they can verify within 30 seconds that it's legit, they can hold it for 7 business days and make interest on it. Of course, if you're a "whale" customer and object, they'll release the funds immediately, because it's at the bank's discretion.

So, it's federal law that's allowing the banks to make a little bit of extra scratch off large deposits for no reason. I know this is just tangentially related to TFA, but it pisses me off.

Needless to say, we're a credit union now.


And this is why I see a goodly number of customers with large checks at our check cashing establishments, despite them having a bank account.
 
2014-01-25 06:32:12 PM

Thingster: BafflerMeal: Coming soon to the US. The banks aready immdiately report large transactions to the fed. The bar is set somewhere

Single 10k transaction, or multiple smaller ones that add up to 10k in a "short" period of time, short being subjective.


SAR = Suspicious Activity Report.
CTR - Currency Transaction Report
A cash economy on any scale makes governments nervous.
 
2014-01-25 07:09:28 PM

InterruptingQuirk: Your money? LOL

[i1.ytimg.com image 480x360]


You keep that garbage out of here.
 
2014-01-25 07:19:26 PM
TD bank got snotty at random intervals when I used to cash smaller checks there, so this isn't anything new. It also cost them my account.

Pre 9/11 it was called the TIN report (the company i worked for called it that) that the banks submitted to the feds. Wire xfer's, account xfers, checks cashed, cash deposits & withdraws all got written to a tape & were submitted along with the hardcopy to Treasury.

/if you thought banks were cheap, try working for one of their contractors
 
2014-01-25 07:29:06 PM

LoneWolf343: InterruptingQuirk: Your money? LOL

[i1.ytimg.com image 480x360]

You keep that garbage out of here.


Issue?
 
2014-01-25 07:37:11 PM
TuteTibiImperes:

If they're worried about people with fake IDs trying to access accounts they could just require customers to set up security questions that they'd have to answer in the event of a large out of character withdrawal.

Not the damn security questions.

My bank added those for online access, there were about 25 the choose from, but I could not answer any of them. I am not married, have no children, didn't go to college, don't know where my paternal grandfather was born, (he died when my dad was 6), don't have a nephew, my mom didn't have a middle name, etc......
 
2014-01-25 08:07:41 PM

Psylent1: TuteTibiImperes:

If they're worried about people with fake IDs trying to access accounts they could just require customers to set up security questions that they'd have to answer in the event of a large out of character withdrawal.

Not the damn security questions.

My bank added those for online access, there were about 25 the choose from, but I could not answer any of them. I am not married, have no children, didn't go to college, don't know where my paternal grandfather was born, (he died when my dad was 6), don't have a nephew, my mom didn't have a middle name, etc......


No one said the 'answers' had to actually answer the questions. You favorite car? Albatross. Your mom's middle name? 69. Your first school? Purple. Etc. just don't forget the answers.
 
2014-01-25 08:22:30 PM

fredklein: Psylent1: TuteTibiImperes:

If they're worried about people with fake IDs trying to access accounts they could just require customers to set up security questions that they'd have to answer in the event of a large out of character withdrawal.

Not the damn security questions.

My bank added those for online access, there were about 25 the choose from, but I could not answer any of them. I am not married, have no children, didn't go to college, don't know where my paternal grandfather was born, (he died when my dad was 6), don't have a nephew, my mom didn't have a middle name, etc......

No one said the 'answers' had to actually answer the questions. You favorite car? Albatross. Your mom's middle name? 69. Your first school? Purple. Etc. just don't forget the answers.


For a long time, I always answered the "What was the name of your first pet?" with 'Your mom'.
 
2014-01-25 08:52:29 PM

InterruptingQuirk: fredklein: Psylent1: TuteTibiImperes:

If they're worried about people with fake IDs trying to access accounts they could just require customers to set up security questions that they'd have to answer in the event of a large out of character withdrawal.

Not the damn security questions.

My bank added those for online access, there were about 25 the choose from, but I could not answer any of them. I am not married, have no children, didn't go to college, don't know where my paternal grandfather was born, (he died when my dad was 6), don't have a nephew, my mom didn't have a middle name, etc......

No one said the 'answers' had to actually answer the questions. You favorite car? Albatross. Your mom's middle name? 69. Your first school? Purple. Etc. just don't forget the answers.

For a long time, I always answered the "What was the name of your first pet?" with 'Your mom'.


I love it.

Citizens bank gave me an example of 'I like pie' to which I promptly formed my real answer as 'I DO like pie'. Probably made it irrelevant but it made sense to me. (Glad to be rid of that shiatty bank, btw).

I agree though, the questions are really freaking arbitrary. Ask my favorite book, class, pet, place, maybe sibling, but there's a pretty big chunk of the population that doesn't get married or have kids. My fifth grade teacher's first name? fark that, I can't even tell you my lunch from three days ago, much less a teacher's name. Mrs. So-and-so, that's who.

Yeah, seriously, I don't remember her name. Oh well.
 
2014-01-25 09:10:20 PM
HSBC was caught laundering drug money for the Mexihole drug cartels, so of course inconveniencing your avg bloke will demonstrate for regulators that they have turned over a new leaf.

Reminds me of when I joined a class action lawsuit against Microsoft, my fellow plaintiffs' and I received coupons, while the attorneys collected the checks.

Also, a California judge ruled speed cameras in our area were unlawful and offending municipalities and counties had to refund the money. A local judge said our county didn't have the money budgeted for a refund and it died right there.

The list goes on.

And liberals want to further restriction gun rights.

Bend over and open up citizen, cuz your going to get it from both ends.
 
2014-01-26 01:23:30 AM

All Latest: Who needs cash anyway?
I pay in cash maybe a couple of times a year. Many bank branches in Norway don't even have cash available anymore, but you can use your debit card to withdraw a few thousands in cash in most shops.
Around here people use debit cards to pay for everything. Bills, cars and other expensive items are paid by online banking.


My pot provider hasn't upgraded to the level yet where I can swipe my debit card through his ass crack.  It's also good to know that never you know tip anyone, have kids or frequent any establishment where cash only is required/accepted (great fresh seafood stand near my town).

Cash is still king, for now.
 
2014-01-26 06:46:21 AM
dilbert.com

dilbert.com
 
2014-01-26 10:51:57 AM
"I'd like to close my account, please."

"And how would you like the proceeds?"

"$5,000 in cash, and the balance in a cashiers check."

"And why do you need the large cash portion?"

<facepalm>
 
2014-01-26 09:43:16 PM

mccallcl: Isn't this the bank that was laundering money for terrorists?


Yes, and monitoring large withdrawals and restricting multiple large withdrawals in the same day or week is a common practice for detection of money laundering, but they seem to have taken it to a ridiculous level to overcompensate for their past.
 
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