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(Jezebel)   It's official: Hipsters proclaim beekeeping OVER, hunting and fishing IN   (jezebel.com) divider line 298
    More: Ironic, urban centres, hipsters, fish  
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5915 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jan 2014 at 2:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-24 05:48:15 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: I wanna see hipsters skin, gut and clean game. That's when I'll know this isn't just a romanticized version of the cute chic in Hunger Games with a supernatural skill at bow and arrow ..

[www.outdoorpros.com image 293x273]
Skinning knife and hatchet. Go ahead, think through that these are for ..

After that bloody work, you must cool the caracas as quickly as possibe

[www.wildlife.state.nh.us image 500x370]

That's as easy a pictorial I could find that wasn't so gorey it would get me banned for 24 hours

This is the easy part, the thing that gets romanticized ..

[www.hunting-newfoundland.com image 266x400]

These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..

Not Safe For Work

So, good luck, sisters. If you can do it, and do it right, hats off and Huzzah. But don't let Hunger Games make you think it's all stalking and magically a fine steak dinner afterwards. There are a lot of bloody steps in between ..

Selah


If someone showed general interest in learning would you teach them?  Would you be patient?
 
2014-01-24 05:51:08 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..


You haven't lived until you've disemboweled a moose!

I had a "Field Dressing Kit" with me when I shot my first (and only, so far) moose, which had a pair of long plastic gloves that leaked immediately, a couple of plastic bags to keep the yummy innards in, and ONE moist towelette.  Not quite sufficient, seeing as I was covered in blood up to my shoulders, and then some...
 
2014-01-24 05:51:16 PM  

give me doughnuts: HeadLever: give me doughnuts: I hope you and your companions all die of hypothermia, or lose limbs to frostbite

Why are you mad?


People who trophy hunt, particularly for predators, are douche-bags.
They may as well just go down to the local pound and shoot all the big dogs.


^^THIS x1,000^^

Pro-hunting, keeping a hierarchy in mind; first, target invasive/non-native species (snakehead fish, feral pigs/wild boar etc [in the U.S. they're ALL non-native], lionfish, etc.), second, native species with populations exceeding their carrying capacity (deer in most states, etc.), third, well-managed game species that reproduce in numbers that can support hunting, and so on...

And within this framework, target individuals as other predators do - old, injured, and even, when a reducing a population is a goal, as it is with invasives or deer, female and juveniles.  But the prototypical trophy hunter targets the 12-pt. buck in the prime of life that'll look great on the wall, but provides tougher meat, and more importantly, removes those genes from the pool, resulting in a diminished genetic stock in the population at large.

Only reasons I can see douchebags hunt native predatory mega-fauna?  Line their pockets and boost their misguided sense of machismo, while saving more prey species individuals for said (paying) trophy hunters.  Head's already copped to the first, and probably is motivated more by the second, tho, like most of his kind, won't admit it.
 
2014-01-24 05:55:37 PM  
Butchering is half the reason I don't hunt anymore. It's a pain to do and if you want to do it right, it's an incredible pain and if the weather isn't cooperating, you either end up with subpar meat or you have to buy a refrigerator just for the carcass. The other half is that our rifle season in WV starts Thanksgiving week and I want to spend it with my family and not in the woods. I mostly stick to fishing nowadays. I can fillet a wally in 2 minutes and the guts and bones all fit in a little tiny bag that I can throw out or compost with no problem. My kids though are starting to get the itch and my six year old is a crack shot with his BB gun, so I guess I'll move him up to a .22 this summer and I figure in a fall or two he'll end up dragging me out into the woods.
 
2014-01-24 05:56:35 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org

Biggest hipster ever
 
2014-01-24 05:59:15 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: I wanna see hipsters skin, gut and clean game. That's when I'll know this isn't just a romanticized version of the cute chic in Hunger Games with a supernatural skill at bow and arrow ..

[www.outdoorpros.com image 293x273]
Skinning knife and hatchet. Go ahead, think through that these are for ..

After that bloody work, you must cool the caracas as quickly as possibe

[www.wildlife.state.nh.us image 500x370]

That's as easy a pictorial I could find that wasn't so gorey it would get me banned for 24 hours

This is the easy part, the thing that gets romanticized ..

[www.hunting-newfoundland.com image 266x400]

These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..

Not Safe For Work

So, good luck, sisters. If you can do it, and do it right, hats off and Huzzah. But don't let Hunger Games make you think it's all stalking and magically a fine steak dinner afterwards. There are a lot of bloody steps in between ..

Selah


No saw? You gotta get a good saw.

You are making your life hard on yourself.
 
2014-01-24 06:11:51 PM  
Clemkadidlefark:

These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..

There's another reality about hunting that you might be overlooking.
 
2014-01-24 06:14:14 PM  

cwick: Clemkadidlefark: These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..

You haven't lived until you've disemboweled a moose!

I had a "Field Dressing Kit" with me when I shot my first (and only, so far) moose, which had a pair of long plastic gloves that leaked immediately, a couple of plastic bags to keep the yummy innards in, and ONE moist towelette.  Not quite sufficient, seeing as I was covered in blood up to my shoulders, and then some...


I remember when they legalized hunting moose in Maine. Such a sport. Hunters would go up to the moose that had lost its fear of man and pose for a picture with it. Before slaughtering it, of course.
 
2014-01-24 06:18:24 PM  

Skunkwolf: No saw? You gotta get a good saw.

You are making your life hard on yourself.


You always like doing things the hard way?
www.coronatools.com

Who the fark doesnt know that hunting can get icky?  I wanna meet this idiot so I can get a good picture of it.
 
2014-01-24 06:21:19 PM  

Skunkwolf: No saw? You gotta get a good saw.


THIS. Hacksaw is your friend. Light with inexpensive & replaceable blades.
 
2014-01-24 06:23:00 PM  

Ebbelwoi: raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

Not really.  They're easy to spot pretentious douchebags who, when you see them, you immediately want to punch in the face.  Then again, I'm 50 so I see things differnt.


Let's run down the checklist here:

1. Declares self a member of a group as a way to distinguish himself from others (I'm 50)
2. Is confident his opinion is different than that of "the mainstream" (I see things differnt)
3. Can spot people who aren't as cool as him (easy to spot pretentious douchebags)
4. Is either ironically claiming to be the sort of person who would punch somebody, or is so authentically hardcore that he really WOULD punch somebody just because they have a different hobby or lifestyle

Yeah... your blood test is back, and it shows dangerously high levels of hipsterol buildup.
 
2014-01-24 06:27:15 PM  

Dahnkster: Skunkwolf: No saw? You gotta get a good saw.

THIS. Hacksaw is your friend. Light with inexpensive & replaceable blades.


Seriously am I the only person that uses loppers any more?  Goes through the hip bone like butter.  Rib cage? Snip Snip Snip.
 
2014-01-24 06:31:53 PM  

Hogmeister: give me doughnuts: HeadLever: give me doughnuts: I hope you and your companions all die of hypothermia, or lose limbs to frostbite

Why are you mad?


People who trophy hunt, particularly for predators, are douche-bags.
They may as well just go down to the local pound and shoot all the big dogs.

^^THIS x1,000^^

Pro-hunting, keeping a hierarchy in mind; first, target invasive/non-native species (snakehead fish, feral pigs/wild boar etc [in the U.S. they're ALL non-native], lionfish, etc.), second, native species with populations exceeding their carrying capacity (deer in most states, etc.), third, well-managed game species that reproduce in numbers that can support hunting, and so on...

And within this framework, target individuals as other predators do - old, injured, and even, when a reducing a population is a goal, as it is with invasives or deer, female and juveniles.  But the prototypical trophy hunter targets the 12-pt. buck in the prime of life that'll look great on the wall, but provides tougher meat, and more importantly, removes those genes from the pool, resulting in a diminished genetic stock in the population at large.

Only reasons I can see douchebags hunt native predatory mega-fauna?  Line their pockets and boost their misguided sense of machismo, while saving more prey species individuals for said (paying) trophy hunters.  Head's SumoJeb already copped to the first, and probably is motivated more by the second, tho, like most of his kind, won't admit it.


/FTFM
//sorry Head!
///one of Boobiess and already screwed the pooch - DOH!
 
2014-01-24 06:39:38 PM  

raygundan: Ebbelwoi: raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

Not really.  They're easy to spot pretentious douchebags who, when you see them, you immediately want to punch in the face.  Then again, I'm 50 so I see things differnt.

Let's run down the checklist here:

1. Declares self a member of a group as a way to distinguish himself from others (I'm 50)
2. Is confident his opinion is different than that of "the mainstream" (I see things differnt)
3. Can spot people who aren't as cool as him (easy to spot pretentious douchebags)
4. Is either ironically claiming to be the sort of person who would punch somebody, or is so authentically hardcore that he really WOULD punch somebody just because they have a different hobby or lifestyle

Yeah... your blood test is back, and it shows dangerously high levels of hipsterol buildup.


Lets run down the checklist here

1. Openly declares that "everyone is a Hipster", claiming that a specifying term such as "Hipster" has no meaning, in your prior post (big hint: everyone is different in some fashion, but Hipsters are a similar grouping of people who do "alternative" things for the sake of being "alternative", rather than for self satisfaction or to better the world around them, and act like pretentious douchebags to those who aren't similar to those who aren't "alternative" in a similar fashion to how they are)

2. Creates a list (oops, I did it too!) of reasons why you think that poster is a "Hipster too", while giving reasons that completely don't match to what a Hipster actually is

3. Accuses the poster of being a Hipster, while also claiming everyone is a Hipster, making that statement self serving without evidence to the poster as a person

4. Just defends Hipsters through his posts

Yeah... your blood test is back, and it shows that you're an asshole (Maybe even a Hipster asshole, but I don't have any proof to that so I won't accuse you of it... yet)
 
2014-01-24 06:44:45 PM  

orclover: Dahnkster: Skunkwolf: No saw? You gotta get a good saw.

THIS. Hacksaw is your friend. Light with inexpensive & replaceable blades.

Seriously am I the only person that uses loppers any more?  Goes through the hip bone like butter.  Rib cage? Snip Snip Snip.


This isn't going to devolve into a "butchering" pissing contest, is it?
We need to focus people, the hipsters are coming!

That said, is the saws or loppers thing a larger-animal thing? I regularly do deer, pigs, and goats, going through the whole gutting, skinning and quartering, all with one blade.
 
2014-01-24 06:51:13 PM  

PolyHatSnake: orclover: Dahnkster: Skunkwolf: No saw? You gotta get a good saw.

THIS. Hacksaw is your friend. Light with inexpensive & replaceable blades.

Seriously am I the only person that uses loppers any more?  Goes through the hip bone like butter.  Rib cage? Snip Snip Snip.

This isn't going to devolve into a "butchering" pissing contest, is it?
We need to focus people, the hipsters are coming!

That said, is the saws or loppers thing a larger-animal thing? I regularly do deer, pigs, and goats, going through the whole gutting, skinning and quartering, all with one blade.


Works great on caribou and moose.

imageshack.com
 
2014-01-24 06:52:25 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: raygundan: Ebbelwoi: raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

Not really.  They're easy to spot pretentious douchebags who, when you see them, you immediately want to punch in the face.  Then again, I'm 50 so I see things differnt.

Let's run down the checklist here:

1. Declares self a member of a group as a way to distinguish himself from others (I'm 50)
2. Is confident his opinion is different than that of "the mainstream" (I see things differnt)
3. Can spot people who aren't as cool as him (easy to spot pretentious douchebags)
4. Is either ironically claiming to be the sort of person who would punch somebody, or is so authentically hardcore that he really WOULD punch somebody just because they have a different hobby or lifestyle

Yeah... your blood test is back, and it shows dangerously high levels of hipsterol buildup.

Lets run down the checklist here

1. Openly declares that "everyone is a Hipster", claiming that a specifying term such as "Hipster" has no meaning, in your prior post (big hint: everyone is different in some fashion, but Hipsters are a similar grouping of people who do "alternative" things for the sake of being "alternative", rather than for self satisfaction or to better the world around them, and act like pretentious douchebags to those who aren't similar to those who aren't "alternative" in a similar fashion to how they are)

2. Creates a list (oops, I did it too!) of reasons why you think that poster is a "Hipster too", while giving reasons that completely don't match to what a Hipster actually is

3. Accuses the poster of being a Hipster, while also claiming everyone is a Hipster, making that statement self serving without evidence to the poster as a person

4. Just defends Hipsters through his posts

Yeah... your blood test is back, and it shows that you're an asshole (Maybe even a Hipster asshole, but I don't have any proof to that so I won't accuse you of it... yet)


See.  Everyone is a hipster.
 
2014-01-24 06:59:48 PM  

m00: raygundan: I'm on the fence as to whether a single-shot bolt action rifle is closer to a fixie, or a singlespeed, though.

I hunt with a Remington Model 33, but you've probably never heard of it.


I hunt with a 6.5 mm Swedish Mauser.  It's well over a hundred years old, so slightly older than I am.  You've probably never heard of it.

I replaced the stock sights with a peep sight.

It's the most beautiful gun I own.
 
2014-01-24 07:10:29 PM  

knobmaker: m00: raygundan: I'm on the fence as to whether a single-shot bolt action rifle is closer to a fixie, or a singlespeed, though.

I hunt with a Remington Model 33, but you've probably never heard of it.

I hunt with a 6.5 mm Swedish Mauser.  It's well over a hundred years old, so slightly older than I am.  You've probably never heard of it.

I replaced the stock sights with a peep sight.

It's the most beautiful gun I own.


*fistbump*

I just finished restoring an old G98 Mauser for D1vwife to hunt with this fall.  She somehow prefers the recoil of the 7.92 round over that of a 30-06.
 
2014-01-24 07:19:21 PM  

Dahnkster: Skunkwolf: No saw? You gotta get a good saw.

THIS. Hacksaw is your friend. Light with inexpensive & replaceable blades.

cordless reciprocating saw is one thing i always bring to camp when I guide moose trips. A chainsaw with veggie oil in the oiler works well too, but is nightmare inducing messy.

 
2014-01-24 07:46:32 PM  
Just wait till they start fur trapping or coon hunting...trying to live like Where the Red Fern Grows. I would find it quite amusing if that ever became trendy. But really who cares? If it is just a fad then wait a few years and it will go back to normal. In the meantime make as much money as you can selling them rifles and whatnot.
 
2014-01-24 08:23:42 PM  

Gunny Highway: DarkSoulNoHope: raygundan: Ebbelwoi: raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

Not really.  They're easy to spot pretentious douchebags who, when you see them, you immediately want to punch in the face.  Then again, I'm 50 so I see things differnt.

Let's run down the checklist here:

1. Declares self a member of a group as a way to distinguish himself from others (I'm 50)
2. Is confident his opinion is different than that of "the mainstream" (I see things differnt)
3. Can spot people who aren't as cool as him (easy to spot pretentious douchebags)
4. Is either ironically claiming to be the sort of person who would punch somebody, or is so authentically hardcore that he really WOULD punch somebody just because they have a different hobby or lifestyle

Yeah... your blood test is back, and it shows dangerously high levels of hipsterol buildup.

Lets run down the checklist here

1. Openly declares that "everyone is a Hipster", claiming that a specifying term such as "Hipster" has no meaning, in your prior post (big hint: everyone is different in some fashion, but Hipsters are a similar grouping of people who do "alternative" things for the sake of being "alternative", rather than for self satisfaction or to better the world around them, and act like pretentious douchebags to those who aren't similar to those who aren't "alternative" in a similar fashion to how they are)

2. Creates a list (oops, I did it too!) of reasons why you think that poster is a "Hipster too", while giving reasons that completely don't match to what a Hipster actually is

3. Accuses the poster of being a Hipster, while also claiming everyone is a Hipster, making that statement self serving without evidence to the poster as a person

4. Just defends Hipsters through his posts

Yeah... your blood test is back, and it shows that you're an asshole (Maybe even a Hipster asshole, but I don't have any proof to that so I won't accuse you of it... yet)

See.  Everyone is a hipster.


static.blol.me
 
2014-01-24 08:56:38 PM  

TheSteamingPile: I don't think the majority will last beyond their first mortally wounded, but not yet dead animal.

CSB Time:

First time I ever shot and killed my first moose was when I was 17. I saw a calf, took the shot and it dropped but wasn't dead. It then started doing it's distress call (think shrieking baby) man I started to cry. I finally got up enough courage to face what I'd done and put the poor sucker out of his misery. While walking, slowly, through the bush towards the beaver pond I'd shot the calf in, I noticed the cow off to my left. Since another hunter in the party had a cow tag, I shot her too. This one was a clean kill, right through the heart. I then finally made it to the calf and put it down. Then I had to field dress these two moose alone. It was well past dark before I made it back to camp to get the other guys to haul the meat out of the bush. Anyway, that time was tough and it gets easier but I'll never ever forget that first calf and his distress call.

/CSB


My Dad was put off hunting (used to hunt a ton as a kid) after he wounded a rabbit.  He never shot anything again after that.  I know guys that will only hunt rabbit with a shotgun just to avoid hearing that sound.  They'd rather pick around shot than risk wounding it.

Rabbits in distress sound an awful lot like a baby crying.

/I hunt turkey and deer mostly, when I can find the time.
//Had to find other people to teach me, Dad would have none of it.
 
2014-01-24 09:19:21 PM  

trackerbri: TheSteamingPile: I don't think the majority will last beyond their first mortally wounded, but not yet dead animal.

CSB Time:

First time I ever shot and killed my first moose was when I was 17. I saw a calf, took the shot and it dropped but wasn't dead. It then started doing it's distress call (think shrieking baby) man I started to cry. I finally got up enough courage to face what I'd done and put the poor sucker out of his misery. While walking, slowly, through the bush towards the beaver pond I'd shot the calf in, I noticed the cow off to my left. Since another hunter in the party had a cow tag, I shot her too. This one was a clean kill, right through the heart. I then finally made it to the calf and put it down. Then I had to field dress these two moose alone. It was well past dark before I made it back to camp to get the other guys to haul the meat out of the bush. Anyway, that time was tough and it gets easier but I'll never ever forget that first calf and his distress call.

/CSB

My Dad was put off hunting (used to hunt a ton as a kid) after he wounded a rabbit.  He never shot anything again after that.  I know guys that will only hunt rabbit with a shotgun just to avoid hearing that sound.  They'd rather pick around shot than risk wounding it.

Rabbits in distress sound an awful lot like a baby crying.

/I hunt turkey and deer mostly, when I can find the time.
//Had to find other people to teach me, Dad would have none of it.


I heard that rabbit in distress sound, not while hunting.  My dog chased a Jack Rabbit through our pasture and into our horse arena. The rabbit must've figured it was cornered and it let out a blood curdling scream, jumped about 15 feet straight up into the air and landed dead as a door nail.
 
2014-01-24 09:44:59 PM  

Farking Canuck: The only people I ever see using the word "hipster" are the intellectually and/or physically lazy.

It seems to roughly translate to "some people are putting effort into something that I don't do/like so I am going to apply a derogatory label to them".


Fail.

A hipster is one who undertakes a recreational activity primarily *for effect*... for the attention from others.

There are secondary goals too, but you're a hipster if your primary goal is the audience.
 
2014-01-24 10:05:13 PM  

Breathe Laugh Twitch: Farking Canuck: The only people I ever see using the word "hipster" are the intellectually and/or physically lazy.

It seems to roughly translate to "some people are putting effort into something that I don't do/like so I am going to apply a derogatory label to them".

Fail.

A hipster is one who undertakes a recreational activity primarily *for effect*... for the attention from others.

There are secondary goals too, but you're a hipster if your primary goal is the audience.


This ^^^^

Does it really upset certain people when we use a derogatory term (Hipster) towards a group of people that have earned it by their own annoying actions and showoff personalities? You can be all the "alternative" you want to be, just don't do it for an audience, do it for yourself, and don't act like a pretentious douchebag towards people who aren't as "alternative" as your or not "alternative" in the same way you are.
 
2014-01-24 10:15:51 PM  

Ant: So what exactly is it that differentiates them from regular hunters and fishermen? Are they doing it ironically? How does this stuff work?


They leave the kill in the woods/let the fish go once it's caught because, you know, circle of life, man.

That's if they've realized that, with a firearm, they aim the explodey end at the non-human animal and with a bow, they aim the pointy end at the non-human animal/don't snag their hooks on themselves and/or everything else when casting. And God help them if they "discover" fly fishing (hell, I've been fishing over 30 years and I still suck at fly fishing)...
 
2014-01-24 10:17:31 PM  

Hot Lunch: Skarekrough: Please...God....don't let them embrace fly fishing....

Good God, I wish I had never embraced fly fishing. It's expensive and I never catch anything because I suck


Never give up. When it all comes together it's a wonderful experience.
 
2014-01-24 10:19:28 PM  

Old_Chief_Scott: Dahnkster: Me, a few weeks ago at my Louisiana duck & deer camp in the Atchafalya River Basin...
[fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net image 850x637]
I marinated him in blend of PBR and secret spices. You wouldn't have heard of them.

I always wondered what it would be like to go duck hunting and not freeze my ass off. I grew up in the North Country of New York hunting on Lake Champlain and it was always f*cking cold.


I'd love to see them take up ice fishing like my cousins in so-far-upstate-they're-damn-near-Canadians. Over/under on how long they'd last up there? I say five minutes, but I'm feeling generous today.
 
2014-01-24 10:35:10 PM  

yakmans_dad: cwick: Clemkadidlefark: These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..

You haven't lived until you've disemboweled a moose!

I had a "Field Dressing Kit" with me when I shot my first (and only, so far) moose, which had a pair of long plastic gloves that leaked immediately, a couple of plastic bags to keep the yummy innards in, and ONE moist towelette.  Not quite sufficient, seeing as I was covered in blood up to my shoulders, and then some...

I remember when they legalized hunting moose in Maine. Such a sport. Hunters would go up to the moose that had lost its fear of man and pose for a picture with it. Before slaughtering it, of course.


You are a liar.
 
m00
2014-01-24 10:53:48 PM  

Frank N Stein: yakmans_dad: cwick: Clemkadidlefark: These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..

You haven't lived until you've disemboweled a moose!

I had a "Field Dressing Kit" with me when I shot my first (and only, so far) moose, which had a pair of long plastic gloves that leaked immediately, a couple of plastic bags to keep the yummy innards in, and ONE moist towelette.  Not quite sufficient, seeing as I was covered in blood up to my shoulders, and then some...

I remember when they legalized hunting moose in Maine. Such a sport. Hunters would go up to the moose that had lost its fear of man and pose for a picture with it. Before slaughtering it, of course.

You are a liar.


Seriously. You don't want to go anywhere NEAR a bull moose. I can handle myself around bears and most wild animals, but moose make me loose my shiat.
 
2014-01-24 11:19:12 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: I wanna see hipsters skin, gut and clean game. That's when I'll know this isn't just a romanticized version of the cute chic in Hunger Games with a supernatural skill at bow and arrow ..

[www.outdoorpros.com image 293x273]
Skinning knife and hatchet. Go ahead, think through that these are for ..

After that bloody work, you must cool the caracas as quickly as possibe

[www.wildlife.state.nh.us image 500x370]

That's as easy a pictorial I could find that wasn't so gorey it would get me banned for 24 hours

This is the easy part, the thing that gets romanticized ..

[www.hunting-newfoundland.com image 266x400]

These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..

Not Safe For Work

So, good luck, sisters. If you can do it, and do it right, hats off and Huzzah. But don't let Hunger Games make you think it's all stalking and magically a fine steak dinner afterwards. There are a lot of bloody steps in between ..

Selah


I've always wanted to have that experience. I've done some reading on the subject, but never had any 'hands on'.
It isn't even a consideration when it comes to my bucket list, but knowing how would make for tastier meat, or so I've heard..

/not
//a
///hipster

Log in fail ... Doh!
 
2014-01-24 11:21:27 PM  

zimbomba63: Jimmysolson: Huh, I read that as proclaim bookkeeping over hunting and fishing, was wondering what all the hubbub was about.

You probably never heard of it, Ironic bookkeeping.  The IRS is going to go wild over it.


I can imagine.
 
2014-01-24 11:21:39 PM  
cdn2.sbnation.com
 
2014-01-24 11:45:38 PM  

Hogmeister: Only reasons I can see douchebags hunt native predatory mega-fauna?  Line their pockets and boost their misguided sense of machismo, while saving more prey species individuals for said (paying) trophy hunters.


It is much more than that.  Around here, wolves were reintroduced and kept under the protection of the ESA while their populations grew waaaaay past the goals stated at the time of reintroduction.  This population of an uncontrolled predator caused some elk populations to crash to the point where they had to curtail all human hunting for several hunts.  This not only hurts the areas where hunters spend thier cash, but it caused losses to the state in the way of reduced tag and license sales (not to mention the Pittman Robertson funds).

In these areas, cow:calf ratios and populations were way below management goals while the state's hands were tied with respect to management.  It was not until 2011 until wolves were finally delisted from the ESA and management was returned to the states over the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the enviros.

Ever since the wolf hunt was returned, the wolves have changed their behavior to stay away (this really helps the ranchers and other livestock owners) and it really increased the survival of elk.  So far the wolf hunt seems to be keeping the population of wolves in check and it seems to be helping the elk herds rebound some.  I would consider that a win-win in any wildlife management book
 
2014-01-25 02:25:45 AM  

Clark W Griswald: Hot Lunch: Skarekrough: Please...God....don't let them embrace fly fishing....

Good God, I wish I had never embraced fly fishing. It's expensive and I never catch anything because I suck

Never give up. When it all comes together it's a wonderful experience.


And also, you don't have to start with the wiliest fish in the river.  It's a lot of fun to catch a bluegill on a fly.
 
2014-01-25 04:07:28 AM  

HeadLever: Hogmeister: Only reasons I can see douchebags hunt native predatory mega-fauna?  Line their pockets and boost their misguided sense of machismo, while saving more prey species individuals for said (paying) trophy hunters.

It is much more than that.  Around here, wolves were reintroduced and kept under the protection of the ESA while their populations grew waaaaay past the goals stated at the time of reintroduction.  This population of an uncontrolled predator caused some elk populations to crash to the point where they had to curtail all human hunting for several hunts.  This not only hurts the areas where hunters spend thier cash, but it caused losses to the state in the way of reduced tag and license sales (not to mention the Pittman Robertson funds).

In these areas, cow:calf ratios and populations were way below management goals while the state's hands were tied with respect to management.  It was not until 2011 until wolves were finally delisted from the ESA and management was returned to the states over the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the enviros.

Ever since the wolf hunt was returned, the wolves have changed their behavior to stay away (this really helps the ranchers and other livestock owners) and it really increased the survival of elk.  So far the wolf hunt seems to be keeping the population of wolves in check and it seems to be helping the elk herds rebound some.  I would consider that a win-win in any wildlife management book


I'm not aware of those dynamics.  I AM, however, aware of studies showing the return of the wolf changing ungulate behavior, specifically, by keeping them from spending all their time in the nutritious riparian habitats, as they had been doing during the decades in which humans had eliminated predation pressures from wolves by, well, eliminating wolves.  Said riparian habitat suffered in biodiversity, erosion and overall quality, and these conditions began to improve almost immediately upon the re-introduction of the wolf.

Curious thing, those wolf population "management goals" - as I recall, they were set based more on what wildlife biologists could eke past the political pressures from livestock interests (and well-paid trophy hunting guides - like you, perhaps?), not on what wildlife biologists interested in wolf recovery and range land restoration actually believed was best.  Just another example of science being trumped by monied political interests.  If the ranchers had it their way, most of them would prefer wolves only as stuffed reminders of one of the apex predators that used to keep things in balance.  I wonder how many more wolves the remaining habitat, much of it national forest land, could support if it wasn't for the welfare ranching done on it.  It's a damn shame how degraded these habitats have become due in part to grazing permitted at rates well below market rate for grazing permits compared to private range land (i.e., welfare ranching).  Funny how I've never heard a conservative carp about the "gov'mnt leeches" when it comes to leasing sales of public lands to ranching or mining interests that amount to fire sales if not outright give-aways.

As for the actual ecosystem management you profess to value, how ever did the whole thing not come crashing down without the ever-helpful European arrivals to help "manage" predator numbers?  Oh, that's right, it managed just fine.

I find it hard to believe that a predator that, for tens or hundreds of thousands of years, was the predominant apex predator in North America (in terms of it's impact on ungulates - neither mountain lions nor grizzlies came close), was subsequently wiped out in all but a few pockets (Isle Royal, Glaciar National Park, perhaps a few other spots in Montana, Idaho) in the continental United States, and has just recently, and at great expense, been re-established in a few western states, is suddenly not only not at risk, but over-populated.  As the kids say, nubian, please.  Their numbers are an infinitesimal fraction of what they once were, and while I understand they'll never achieve those numbers again as long as we're as bloated as we are, they're a long, long way from infringing on anything more serious than ranchers' sweatheart deals, and hunting guides' numbers.

Look, I can respect unfettered self-interest - I don't agree with it, and I believe it's gotten us to the farked up place we are today ecologically speaking.  But at least it's comprehendable and honest.  Just don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.  Ungulate numbers are kept in check by the elements, and predation.  Predator numbers are kept in check by reproduction that's directly related to habitat quantity and quality, and prey availability.  Looking for the real motivation behind "controlling" predator numbers by humans?  As Deepthroat said, follow the money.  It's always about the money.

p.s. oh, and about your butthurt over wolves causing elk population declines?  Here's a shocker - that's a bunch of b.s.  http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/newshound/2013/06/study-wolves-not-c a use-wyoming-elk-decline
 
2014-01-25 04:17:24 AM  

Hogmeister: p.s. oh, and about your butthurt over wolves causing elk population declines?  Here's a shocker - that's a bunch of b.s.


He doesn't believe in climate change, either. I wouldn't sweat it.
 
2014-01-25 04:24:48 AM  
Oh, and btw, this is from that same article.  Typical.

Collecting data that shows an elk herd can thrive in wolf country and then getting people to actually believe that data are two different challenges. Hunters and outfitters who have spent their lives in the backcountry - before and after the wolf reintroduction - have already made plenty of their own observations.

Tim Doud, owner of Bliss Creek Outfitters out of Cody, says the elk decline goes hand in hand with the wolf reintroduction.  It's plain and simple:

"The elk population numbers have certainty decreased and it is because of the wolves. That's the only reason in my eyes," he says. "Now I'm not anti-wolf. I don't think they should be wiped out or anything like that. But we do need to hunt more of them. Most people don't see what I see. They don't see the horrific, suffering death of an elk whose hindquarters have been chewed away and can only lay there and die slowly. That's a real shame. Most people ... go to Yellowstone to see the pretty dogs."


Except it's not "plain and simple," at least not as he tells it.  He makes a clear statement, wolf reintroduction led to elk declines.  Except he FAILS MISERABLY to back it up with any real evidence or even logic.  Instead, he describes an emotionally disturbing scene that has no bearing whatsoever on the topic at hand.  Sounds like he's doing a lot more "wailing and gnashing of teeth" than the "enviros" you disparage.

Like I said, typical.
 
2014-01-25 04:44:19 AM  

whidbey: Hogmeister: p.s. oh, and about your butthurt over wolves causing elk population declines?  Here's a shocker - that's a bunch of b.s.

He doesn't believe in climate change, either. I wouldn't sweat it.


Thanks whidbey - I really need to stay away from threads like this (or @ least posts like his) when I'm not outta beer...  really ruins the buzz.
 
2014-01-25 06:03:00 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: these retards are mostly the first generation of sh*tf*cks who are allergic to everything.  Wait for that first dipstick who gets stung and chokes on his own throat.  Ha!


The ONLY thing I am allergic to is Bee/Wasp venom (AFAIK), and I grew up going hunting with family.  Epi-pens are too mainstream for me.
 
2014-01-25 09:30:46 AM  

Frank N Stein: yakmans_dad: cwick: Clemkadidlefark: These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..

You haven't lived until you've disemboweled a moose!

I had a "Field Dressing Kit" with me when I shot my first (and only, so far) moose, which had a pair of long plastic gloves that leaked immediately, a couple of plastic bags to keep the yummy innards in, and ONE moist towelette.  Not quite sufficient, seeing as I was covered in blood up to my shoulders, and then some...

I remember when they legalized hunting moose in Maine. Such a sport. Hunters would go up to the moose that had lost its fear of man and pose for a picture with it. Before slaughtering it, of course.

You are a liar.


I thought about how to respond to this. The first thing was "ignore list", The second was rebuttal. But that conversation is "he said/he said". and high blood pressure.  What I hit upon was What You Should Have Said since I think there could have been a stinging, non-defamatory comment. So, without further prelims, What You Should Have Said,

****BEGIN****

"First, I bet you're quoting someone. You don't have that experience. And further, I bet you can't back that up. I've never, ever heard of any hunters doing that or even thinking about that and I've hunted for [X] years. Finally, even if it were true, you're a jerk for trying to link all hunters with what is obviously rare behavior. "

****END****

If that's a fair alternate account, we can have a conversation. Maybe no conversation is wanted.
 
2014-01-25 09:50:43 AM  
 

Gunny Highway: DarkSoulNoHope: raygundan: Ebbelwoi: raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

Not really.  They're easy to spot pretentious douchebags who, when you see them, you immediately want to punch in the face.  Then again, I'm 50 so I see things differnt.

Let's run down the checklist here:

1. Declares self a member of a group as a way to distinguish himself from others (I'm 50)
2. Is confident his opinion is different than that of "the mainstream" (I see things differnt)
3. Can spot people who aren't as cool as him (easy to spot pretentious douchebags)
4. Is either ironically claiming to be the sort of person who would punch somebody, or is so authentically hardcore that he really WOULD punch somebody just because they have a different hobby or lifestyle

Yeah... your blood test is back, and it shows dangerously high levels of hipsterol buildup.

Lets run down the checklist here

1. Openly declares that "everyone is a Hipster", claiming that a specifying term such as "Hipster" has no meaning, in your prior post (big hint: everyone is different in some fashion, but Hipsters are a similar grouping of people who do "alternative" things for the sake of being "alternative", rather than for self satisfaction or to better the world around them, and act like pretentious douchebags to those who aren't similar to those who aren't "alternative" in a similar fashion to how they are)

2. Creates a list (oops, I did it too!) of reasons why you think that poster is a "Hipster too", while giving reasons that completely don't match to what a Hipster actually is

3. Accuses the poster of being a Hipster, while also claiming everyone is a Hipster, making that statement self serving without evidence to the poster as a person

4. Just defends Hipsters through his posts

Yeah... your blood test is back, and it shows that you're an asshole (Maybe even a Hipster asshole, but I don't have any proof to that so I won't accuse you of it... yet)

See.  Everyone is a hipster.


I... think that's the angriest way anyone has ever arrived at total agreement with me.
 
2014-01-25 10:06:45 AM  

Hogmeister: I AM, however, aware of studies showing the return of the wolf changing ungulate behavior, specifically, by keeping them from spending all their time in the nutritious riparian habitats, as they had been doing during the decades in which humans had eliminated predation pressures from wolves by, well, eliminating wolves.  Said riparian habitat suffered in biodiversity, erosion and overall quality, and these conditions began to improve almost immediately upon the re-introduction of the wolf.


That is true for places like Yellowstone park where elk were not hunted or where other elk populations were to high.  However, that was not necessarily the case everywhere throughout the intermountain west where they were reintroduced.

Curious thing, those wolf population "management goals" - as I recall, they were set based more on what wildlife biologists could eke past the political pressures from livestock interests (and well-paid trophy hunting guides - like you, perhaps?), not on what wildlife biologists interested in wolf recovery and range land restoration actually believed was best.

No.  Wildlife biologist know the impact that wolves have on both game animals and livestock.  They knew conflict in these areas would be best handled by maintaining a small  population in these ares.  What the wildlife biologist were concerned about are things about dispersion and interbreeding.  This is not an issue with the state management plan and was the reason that the environmentalist challenge to removal from the ESA was overruled.

 I wonder how many more wolves the remaining habitat, much of it national forest land, could support if it wasn't for the welfare ranching done on it.

None in the areas here because ranching does not diminish big game populations and that is the driver behind the state's goal to reduce some wolf populations.  The state's interest here is to maintain sports hunting for big game, which is the primary driver of their revenue.

It's a damn shame how degraded these habitats have become due in part to grazing permitted at rates well below market rate for grazing permits compared to private range land (i.e., welfare ranching).

Now you are entering the stupid realm.  Of course public land grazing is lower because it is not irrigated pasture.  The amount of feed is much lower, herding cost are much higher, and water resources are not developed like private pastureland.  What is the 'fair market value' of public rangeland?  Since it is obvious that you don't know the difference between the two, you have no idea what fair market value even represents in your talking point.
 
2014-01-25 10:20:39 AM  

DarkSoulNoHope: use a derogatory term (Hipster) towards a group of people that have earned it by their own annoying actions


Not me, at any rate.  But this is the problem with the term in a nutshell-- to you, it's derogatory.  Hell, I use it that way sometimes.  Other folks use it as descriptive-- either for themselves or others.  Some use it favorably.  I'm not saying YOU don't have a distinct and clear definition you use the term for, but there must be four dozen different ways to apply it before we even look at how broad people's boundaries for what qualifies are.  Threads where people complain about hipsters are almost always total nonsense, because nobody bothers to mention what they mean, and almost nobody actually means quite the same thing.

I had hoped I was being obviously facetious... it's not that everybody is really a hipster, it's that there are so many definitions in wide use right now that everyone is a hipster to somebody.

I enjoy making fun of morons as much as the next asshole.  But if we're gonna do it, let's pick something that isn't so vague as to be useless for inventing proper insults.  I think fixies-as-street-bikes are the most retarded thing to happen to cycling in 30 years, but I'd make fun of "people with fixies," not "hipsters."  Or "people who shouldn't be near a gun, let alone hunting."  Or "people who post too much in a thread, picking fights, and generally being annoying."  Or "Anyone who uses the words 'autoboxing' and 'hotboxing' in the same sentence."  Or "Anyone who can get genuinely excited about handcrafted hardwood pencils."
 
2014-01-25 10:27:07 AM  

Hogmeister: As for the actual ecosystem management you profess to value, how ever did the whole thing not come crashing down without the ever-helpful European arrivals to help "manage" predator numbers?  Oh, that's right, it managed just fine.


Once sports hunting was adopted as the model and we got away from market and subsistence hunting, things have gotten along just fine.  You really know little of what you speak sir.

I find it hard to believe that a predator that, for tens or hundreds of thousands of years, was the predominant apex predator in North America (in terms of it's impact on ungulates - neither mountain lions nor grizzlies came close), was subsequently wiped out in all but a few pockets (Isle Royal, Glaciar National Park, perhaps a few other spots in Montana, Idaho) in the continental United States, and has just recently, and at great expense, been re-established in a few western states, is suddenly not only not at risk, but over-populated.  As the kids say, nubian, please.  Their numbers are an infinitesimal fraction of what they once were, and while I understand they'll never achieve those numbers again as long as we're as bloated as we are, they're a long, long way from infringing on anything more serious than ranchers' sweatheart deals, and hunting guides' numbers.

Sorry dude, nature no longer exists in a vacuum.  Wildlife management is way beyond that 'natural balance' since current wildlife management for big game revolves around maintaining a robust big game population for hunting opportunity and revenues.  If you allow a natural balance between wolves and prey species, you will eliminate the ability to also hold hunting seasons for these same big game.

Look, I can respect unfettered self-interest - I don't agree with it,

What you don't understand is that the self interest runs much deeper than just me.  These big game seasons, tags, licenses are the main source of wildlife conservation funding.  This is the foundation of sports hunting, sir.  Please pick up the book 'RIfle in Hand' and read about the foundation that was set in this regard by Teddy Roosevelt.  It is no accident.

nd I believe it's gotten us to the farked up place we are today ecologically speaking.  But at least it's comprehendable and honest.

Ecological speaking in the the context of big game and predators, we are in a much better place today than we were at the turn of the century.  This is not debatable and for you to suggest otherwise shows how ignorant on the topic.


Predator numbers are kept in check by reproduction that's directly related to habitat quantity and quality, and prey availability

Only if you allow them to exist in a vacuum.  Again, this is notcurrently the case.
It's always about the money.If it was about the money, we would still be operating a market hunting system.  Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.p.s. oh, and about your butthurt over wolves causing elk population declines?  Here's a shocker - that's a bunch of b.s.  http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/newshound/2013/06/study-wolves-not-c a use-wyoming-elk-declineAnd that is one small herd.  One cherry picked example does not make your overall point.  In fact, your assertion is easy to refute.  Remember, Wyoming wolf population is pretty isolated.   Here is an article that does link the two.
 
2014-01-25 10:57:57 AM  

DarkSoulNoHope: 1. Openly declares that "everyone is a Hipster", claiming that a specifying term such as "Hipster" has no meaning, in your prior post (big hint: everyone is different in some fashion, but Hipsters are a similar grouping of people who do "alternative" things for the sake of being "alternative", rather than for self satisfaction or to better the world around them, and act like pretentious douchebags to those who aren't similar to those who aren't "alternative" in a similar fashion to how they are)


In that sense, "hipster" is a lot like "conspiracy theorist."  Conspiracy theorists bristle at being labeled "conspiracy theorists," and they repeatedly try to argue that everyone else is a conspiracy theorist simply because they do things or think things.
 
2014-01-25 11:10:05 AM  

whidbey: He doesn't believe in climate change, either. I wouldn't sweat it.


citation needed.

Going to call BS on this one, liar.  Not hard to see why most consider you to be a partisan tool as truth doesn't matter much to you.
 
2014-01-25 11:13:44 AM  

Hogmeister: Except he FAILS MISERABLY to back it up with any real evidence or even logic.


That has already been demonstrated.  The link is there for areas with high wolf populations.  What we are seeing now is that the wolf hunt is keeping the wolves out of the big game wintering areas and really helps winter survival.  In this case, it appears that both wolf and big game populations are stabilizing.  With the wolf hunt enacted, it looks like wolves and big game can exist in numbers that can many on both sides pretty happy.
 
2014-01-25 11:48:29 AM  

Gunny Highway: Do not DARE show interest in things lest you become a.......HIPSTER!

/


The difference between hipster interest and genuine interest is that hipsters need others to know about it.

If you can really enjoy kale, fixies, PBR, or raw-only cuisine in complete and private solitude, then that's not being a hipster.
 
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