Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Jezebel)   It's official: Hipsters proclaim beekeeping OVER, hunting and fishing IN   (jezebel.com) divider line 298
    More: Ironic, urban centres, hipsters, fish  
•       •       •

5914 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jan 2014 at 2:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



298 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-01-24 02:02:14 PM  
Well once they grew the beards, I knew hunting and fishing weren't long behind. Next they build a cabin and make friends with bear cub. It's inevitable. What has happened before will happen again:
i1353.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-24 02:08:17 PM  
Ha ha ha, my brother is going to be a hipster now!
 
2014-01-24 02:29:29 PM  
Attention, Hipsters: Hunting Is the New Beekeeping, So Get on That.

lolwut
 
2014-01-24 02:30:41 PM  
I was killin' things before it went mainstream...
 
2014-01-24 02:30:44 PM  
The link is blank for me, so it's a site I've blocked for excessive retardation.
 
2014-01-24 02:30:58 PM  
Just what I need pork pie hat, ironic tee shirt and PBR walking around the woods with a load rifle.
 
2014-01-24 02:31:02 PM  
Die
 
2014-01-24 02:31:11 PM  
Yeah.  I want to see a hipster willingly pick up a firearm and go hunting.
 
2014-01-24 02:31:11 PM  
A hipster would be complaining too loudly about everything to ever sneak up on game.
 
2014-01-24 02:31:17 PM  
Please...God....don't let them embrace fly fishing....
 
2014-01-24 02:31:18 PM  
Here comes the artisanal venison jerky.
 
2014-01-24 02:31:45 PM  
do they kill things ironically?
 
2014-01-24 02:31:56 PM  
gawddammit, I was fishing before it went mainstream.

/ashamed
 
2014-01-24 02:32:05 PM  
Once you've assimilated every other bit of blue collar culture, where's left to go besides hunting?  Will hipsters go muddin' next?
 
2014-01-24 02:32:07 PM  

Skarekrough: Please...God....don't let them embrace fly fishing....


You mean hipsters wouldn't go for the snobbiest hipster angling there practically is?

Unthinkable!
 
2014-01-24 02:32:19 PM  
Sriracha collapse syndrome?

//seriously, though, even non-hipster beekeepers are bailing out at this point..
 
2014-01-24 02:32:51 PM  
www.slate.com
Yeesh, you guys are only about 2 years late.

/knows a gay hipster hunter
//he takes his economist to the range
 
2014-01-24 02:33:22 PM  
But of course they only fish tributaries and really out of the way small streams that have names you haven't heard of.
 
2014-01-24 02:33:43 PM  
Going to start seeing a lot of interesting trophies around the huntin' lodge next year.
 
2014-01-24 02:34:37 PM  

busy chillin': But of course they only fish tributaries and really out of the way small streams that have names you haven't heard of.


What are you saying, that a river is too mainstream?
 
2014-01-24 02:34:49 PM  

AngryDragon: Yeah.  I want to see a hipster willingly pick up a firearm and go hunting.


www.slate.com
www.slate.com
i.cbc.ca
 
2014-01-24 02:34:58 PM  
i want to run around Portland with a broadsword.
 
2014-01-24 02:35:07 PM  

busy chillin': But of course they only fish tributaries and really out of the way small streams that have names you haven't heard of.


streams and tributaries are very mainstream. i only fish kills now
 
2014-01-24 02:35:19 PM  
I'm OK with this.
 
2014-01-24 02:35:27 PM  
Why must the world shiat all over everything I love?
 
2014-01-24 02:35:34 PM  
They're alot more likely to shoot each other than pose any danger to something on four legs.
 
2014-01-24 02:36:11 PM  
Oh, great. I would say that I was fishing before it was cool, but that would just make it worse.
 
2014-01-24 02:36:39 PM  
No
 
2014-01-24 02:36:55 PM  
The B in BLT now stands for Bambi.
 
2014-01-24 02:38:28 PM  
that article is absurdly butthurt
 
2014-01-24 02:38:40 PM  
Me, a few weeks ago at my Louisiana duck & deer camp in the Atchafalya River Basin...
fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net
I marinated him in blend of PBR and secret spices. You wouldn't have heard of them.
 
2014-01-24 02:38:45 PM  
Your affordable hobby is not safe from hipster assimilation.  I suggest getting into off-shore racing or transatlantic ballooning.
 
2014-01-24 02:38:59 PM  
It takes time and experience to be self-sufficient as a hunter, or angler for that matter. The first hipsters who figure that out will seek out experienced hunters as mentors (if they're smart). That should make for some interesting match-ups...

Noobs with rifles make me more nervous than wild rednecks in the woods.
 
2014-01-24 02:39:43 PM  
viewfromaloft.typepad.com

cdn.trendhunterstatic.com
 
2014-01-24 02:39:52 PM  
Hey, baby, check the lead and mercury levels in that Canada goose prosciutto. Natural isn't what it used to be.
 
2014-01-24 02:40:17 PM  
Someday the only thing left for hipsters to discover will be American cheese.
 
2014-01-24 02:40:20 PM  
FTA:

"But hunting requires venturing into a rural area, proper equipment in tow, getting out of bed at the ass-crack of dawn to sit and wait for a couple of hours in often frigid weather. "

We took the kids camping once. It turned out to be the night before bow hunting season began. There were so many hunters in sleeping bags lining the roads it looked like an onslaught of giant caterpillars. The idea that the next morning would see us dodging arrows around the camp fire was more than a little scary.
 
2014-01-24 02:40:31 PM  

Buck Henderson: busy chillin': But of course they only fish tributaries and really out of the way small streams that have names you haven't heard of.

What are you saying, that a river is too mainstream?


Yes. You will never see one of these hipsters on the Mississippi.
 
2014-01-24 02:40:47 PM  
It's 100% artisan, do-it-yourself, free of chemicals and feeds, historically relevant, blue-collar authentic, and you have to purchase tickets to do it.

All hunters are hipsters.  They just don't know it.
 
2014-01-24 02:41:31 PM  

Dahnkster: Me, a few weeks ago at my Louisiana duck & deer camp in the Atchafalya River Basin...

I marinated him in blend of PBR and secret spices. You wouldn't have heard of them.


You look quite proud. Im sure he put up quite a fight
 
2014-01-24 02:41:56 PM  

Sh0nuff: They're alot more likely to shoot each other than pose any danger to something on four legs.


Are you kidding me?  With all the blow they do they'll be able to stay awake in a tree for days.
 
Ant
2014-01-24 02:42:01 PM  
So what exactly is it that differentiates them from regular hunters and fishermen? Are they doing it ironically? How does this stuff work?
 
2014-01-24 02:43:51 PM  

Buck Henderson: busy chillin': But of course they only fish tributaries and really out of the way small streams that have names you haven't heard of.

What are you saying, that a river is too mainstream?


www.allscapeinc.com
 
2014-01-24 02:44:01 PM  
these retards are mostly the first generation of sh*tf*cks who are allergic to everything.  Wait for that first dipstick who gets stung and chokes on his own throat.  Ha!
 
2014-01-24 02:44:10 PM  

img.fark.net


I'm OK with this.

 
2014-01-24 02:45:18 PM  
i.adultswim.com
"THERE AIN'T NO DAMN BEES!"
 
2014-01-24 02:45:45 PM  
I thought these people were vegan? Are they over that, too?
 
2014-01-24 02:45:54 PM  
So are muzzleloaders the fixies of hunting rifles?
 
2014-01-24 02:46:49 PM  

Ant: So what exactly is it that differentiates them from regular hunters and fishermen? Are they doing it ironically? How does this stuff work?


they bring the latest iPhone and show it off to the deer.  Then the entire forest makes fun of him and he doesn't realize it.
 
2014-01-24 02:46:53 PM  
I hunt bees.
 
2014-01-24 02:48:53 PM  
Waiting for hipsters to bring back walking around with a sword strapped to your side.
 
2014-01-24 02:51:03 PM  

Michic: I thought these people were vegan? Are they over that, too?


These people eat animals you've never even heard of.
 
2014-01-24 02:51:09 PM  
FTA:

But hunting requires venturing into a rural area, proper equipment in tow, getting out of bed at the ass-crack of dawn to sit and wait for a couple of hours in often frigid weather. If you're successful, then you have to butcher an animal. It's a lot of hard work and it's often boring.

WTH?  I'll remember my hunting outings much more than sitting at a hip bar trying to choke down the latest fruity craft brew that my buddy insists is really good stuff.
 
2014-01-24 02:51:29 PM  
hahaha, I am going to put on a Black Moth Super Rainbow shirt while listening to Animal Collective and fish my father-in-laws koi pond this weekend.
 
2014-01-24 02:52:00 PM  
Ok, where do I sign up to hunt the hipsters?
 
2014-01-24 02:52:19 PM  

tricycleracer: Your affordable hobby is not safe from hipster assimilation.  I suggest getting into off-shore racing or transatlantic ballooning.


And this is why I'd be frightened as a hunter -- how many of these newbies are going traipsing out into the woods with loaded weapons and not one lick of safety training?
 
2014-01-24 02:52:31 PM  
I hunt and fish in places you've probably never heard of.
 
2014-01-24 02:52:33 PM  
The only thing ironic is that I still don't understand this new use of the word ironic.* How can a t-shirt be ironic? Or a mustache? How could you hunt ironically? I'd make an "ironing" joke but that would be too much. Or maybe that would be ironic, I don't know.


* see what I mean?
 
2014-01-24 02:52:51 PM  

tricycleracer: So are muzzleloaders the fixies of hunting rifles?


Only a flintlock or matchlock.... none of that newfangled in-line 209 primer crap
 
2014-01-24 02:53:15 PM  

Dahnkster: Me, a few weeks ago at my Louisiana duck & deer camp in the Atchafalya River Basin...
[fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net image 850x637]
I marinated him in blend of PBR and secret spices. You wouldn't have heard of them.


Whatcha got laying on the dock? Couple of Gadwalls? Yum.
I spent the last 3 weeks of hunting season tracking a big 12pt only to see him as roadkill. Broke my damn heart.
Now we're feasting on feathery things.

Suck it Hips....you'll never get into my club. Strike that. Membership initiation fee: Hookers & Blow.
 
2014-01-24 02:54:43 PM  

orclover: Why must the world shiat all over everything I love?


Poster-worthy quote right there
 
2014-01-24 02:56:06 PM  
"We never buy a package of ground beef. Ever," said Larsen.


Now that's hipster shiat right there
 
2014-01-24 02:56:42 PM  

autopsybeverage: tricycleracer: Your affordable hobby is not safe from hipster assimilation.  I suggest getting into off-shore racing or transatlantic ballooning.

And this is why I'd be frightened as a hunter -- how many of these newbies are going traipsing out into the woods with loaded weapons and not one lick of safety training?


Most states require a hunter's safety course before issuing a hunting permit.
 
2014-01-24 02:56:46 PM  

orclover: Why must the world shiat all over everything I love?


Because everything you love can be sold.
 
2014-01-24 02:56:56 PM  
Going wolf and coyote hunting today! Fishing for ling tomorrow. No hipsters this far north... the oil and gas scares them.
 
2014-01-24 02:57:43 PM  

Dahnkster: Me, a few weeks ago at my Louisiana duck & deer camp in the Atchafalya River Basin...
[fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net image 850x637]
I marinated him in blend of PBR and secret spices. You wouldn't have heard of them.


I always wondered what it would be like to go duck hunting and not freeze my ass off. I grew up in the North Country of New York hunting on Lake Champlain and it was always f*cking cold.
 
2014-01-24 02:58:07 PM  
Time for me to get into the organic, heirloom worm business.
 
2014-01-24 02:58:15 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: The only thing ironic is that I still don't understand this new use of the word ironic.* How can a t-shirt be ironic? Or a mustache? How could you hunt ironically? I'd make an "ironing" joke but that would be too much. Or maybe that would be ironic, I don't know.


* see what I mean?


You can't and they aren't.  Long story short, there's no such thing as ironic self-expression, because self and expression aren't detached enough for ironic distance to come in.  If you wear a shirt, you're expressing yourself through that shirt.  Whether or not you call it ironic doesn't matter.

Hipsters look like clowns because looking like a clown is kind of a proper response to 2014.

/I'm actually pretty pro-hipster clowndom.  There have been worse trends.
 
2014-01-24 02:58:51 PM  

autopsybeverage: And this is why I'd be frightened as a hunter -- how many of these newbies are going traipsing out into the woods with loaded weapons and not one lick of safety training?


In all seriousness to this point - I believe all states now require hunter's safety courses in order to obtain a hunting license.
 
2014-01-24 03:00:08 PM  
Just so long they don't discover Foxhunting...
 
2014-01-24 03:00:15 PM  
i.huffpost.com
 
2014-01-24 03:00:23 PM  

Dahnkster: Me, a few weeks ago at my Louisiana duck & deer camp in the Atchafalya River Basin...
[fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net image 850x637]
I marinated him in blend of PBR and secret spices. You wouldn't have heard of them.


Hipster!
 
2014-01-24 03:00:51 PM  
Exclude fishing from that, since it is rarely about keeping fish for meals. At most you want to keep a couple crappie or bluegills. Eating that four pound small-mouth or sauger? That's a damned waste of a fish.
 
2014-01-24 03:01:32 PM  

HeadLever: autopsybeverage: And this is why I'd be frightened as a hunter -- how many of these newbies are going traipsing out into the woods with loaded weapons and not one lick of safety training?

In all seriousness to this point - I believe all states now require hunter's safety courses in order to obtain a hunting license.


EXACTLY! And it's not like your local NRA chapter has scrapped its obligation to promoting proper firearm safety for the sake of drumming up fearful "gubmint gon' git yer gunz" rhetoric, right?


/Is that Darwin in bright orange and camo gear? What's he doing out here?
 
2014-01-24 03:03:51 PM  

doubled99: "We never buy a package of ground beef. Ever," said Larsen.


Now that's hipster shiat right there


They fight the cow for the freshest meat.


reviewsfromtheabyss.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-24 03:04:52 PM  

Skarekrough: Please...God....don't let them embrace fly fishing....


Good God, I wish I had never embraced fly fishing. It's expensive and I never catch anything because I suck
 
2014-01-24 03:05:38 PM  
So more hunters will get shot. Good.
 
2014-01-24 03:05:46 PM  
I love how the youngsters think they're special re-discovering things older people have cycled through numerous times.

What's next--pushing for an all-lager brewpub, since ales are so yesterday, not putting two and two together that light lagers are PBR, Miller, and the rest?

Or finding out about artisanal hand-picked, hand-rolled, large diameter oversized cigarettes?

/Glad to know my friends and I have been hipster our whole lives, what, with all the microbrew love and hunting going back to the '80s.
 
2014-01-24 03:05:57 PM  

i.r.id10t: tricycleracer: So are muzzleloaders the fixies of hunting rifles?

Only a flintlock or matchlock.... none of that newfangled in-line 209 primer crap


There's actually truth to this.

Inlines using powder substitutes and discarding sabots out power metallic cartridges like the 45-70 and 35 Remington and tend to have better accuracy since you're running a more aerodynamic shape/better BC.

To me, muzzleloader season should be side lock season (primers or flint), but inlines should be relegated to the regular season like any other single shot rifle would be.
 
2014-01-24 03:07:14 PM  

EyeballKid: EXACTLY! And it's not like your local NRA chapter has scrapped its obligation to promoting proper firearm safety for the sake of drumming up fearful "gubmint gon' git yer gunz" rhetoric, right?


/Is that Darwin in bright orange and camo gear? What's he doing out here?



media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com

We bring this political threadjack to you thanks to the folks at VPN and the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.
 
2014-01-24 03:07:57 PM  
www.bigfatwhale.com
 
2014-01-24 03:09:34 PM  
This is good.  We have way too many deer and hipsters.  So we send the hipsters out to the woods to thin out the deer, and while they are out there, we don't miss them.  Then if they don't come back, because of a hunting accident or something, we don't miss them even more.
 
2014-01-24 03:09:40 PM  

Thingster: To me, muzzleloader season should be side lock season (primers or flint), but inlines should be relegated to the regular season like any other single shot rifle would be.


yeah, with the modern muzzleloaders i see out there now i'm hard pressed to see why they should get a preferentially season over someone like myself with a bolt action
 
2014-01-24 03:09:59 PM  
The only people I ever see using the word "hipster" are the intellectually and/or physically lazy.

It seems to roughly translate to "some people are putting effort into something that I don't do/like so I am going to apply a derogatory label to them".
 
2014-01-24 03:10:20 PM  
Crap. Now I'll never be able to find any ammo.
 
2014-01-24 03:10:57 PM  

EyeballKid: HeadLever: autopsybeverage: And this is why I'd be frightened as a hunter -- how many of these newbies are going traipsing out into the woods with loaded weapons and not one lick of safety training?

In all seriousness to this point - I believe all states now require hunter's safety courses in order to obtain a hunting license.

EXACTLY! And it's not like your local NRA chapter has scrapped its obligation to promoting proper firearm safety for the sake of drumming up fearful "gubmint gon' git yer gunz" rhetoric, right?


/Is that Darwin in bright orange and camo gear? What's he doing out here?


I realize that you're a farking moron. But for anyone else that reads that may buy into your dumb shiat:

The NRA is still the standard for gun safety courses. They do more to promote and set up gun safety programs more than any other organization. Say what you want about their politics, that's fair game. But to say they forsaken gun and hunter safety for politics is a lie
 
2014-01-24 03:12:16 PM  

Road Rash: Crap. Now I'll never be able to find any ammo.


Nah, they'll make their own artisanal bullets and organic powder and only reload with vintage brass.
 
2014-01-24 03:12:51 PM  

HeadLever: autopsybeverage: And this is why I'd be frightened as a hunter -- how many of these newbies are going traipsing out into the woods with loaded weapons and not one lick of safety training?

In all seriousness to this point - I believe all states now require hunter's safety courses in order to obtain a hunting license.



Yes by law in most states.  However, you can go into a Walmart kiosk to get a license and when it asks you if you've had a hunter safety course you just hit yes and move on.  You don't have to provide any other info on the safety course than that.
 
2014-01-24 03:13:41 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Because everything you love can be sold.


Ow. Dammit, Rapmaster, you're only supposed to post funny things!

i guess bees are out because they just keep right on dying, no matter how much the hipsters want to save them with their hand-tossed, organically built hives. It's like, depressing. So let's go kill something instead.
 
2014-01-24 03:14:58 PM  
I'm allergic to fish and shellfish, but I fish.
/Living on the edge
 
2014-01-24 03:16:17 PM  
Thought experiment: hipster thread, pizza thread, beer thread, creationism thread and then start over.

How soon before the servers over-heated and melted through to the Earth's core?
 
2014-01-24 03:17:26 PM  

tricycleracer: Road Rash: Crap. Now I'll never be able to find any ammo.

Nah, they'll make their own artisanal bullets and organic powder and only reload with vintage brass.


Man, I've got piles of vintage brass - including oddball stuff like .25-06 Rem - that I'd be glad to sell them at prices comparable to what they are paying for those ugly clothes.

I smell profit in the wind . . .
 
2014-01-24 03:17:46 PM  
This is the real reason Duck Dynasty ratings are going south. Hipsters.
 
2014-01-24 03:17:54 PM  

Farking Canuck: The only people I ever see using the word "hipster" are the intellectually and/or physically lazy.

It seems to roughly translate to "some people are putting effort into something that I don't do/like so I am going to apply a derogatory label to them".


This.

Also, at the expense of sounding hipster to you all. I'm an urban kid. I live in Chicago. But I've been hunting and fishing my whole life. When I wasn't going to museums or Comisky park, I'd be in the Michigan woods camping or hunting, or on various lakes fishing, water skiing, or what have you. I learned to clean a gun at the age of 10, and by 13 I knew enough about boat handling/safety that my dad would let me take out his boat, unsupervised and by myself, for hours.

What am I saying here? I'm not sure. But I'm steadfast in the opinion that you should teach your kids outdoor skills. Frankly, urban kids are weak an kinda dumb for the most part. they could benefit from learning how to clean a fish, skin a deer, survive in the wilderness for a couple days, identify edible plants, and other outdoor skills.
 
2014-01-24 03:18:01 PM  

slognard: HeadLever: autopsybeverage: And this is why I'd be frightened as a hunter -- how many of these newbies are going traipsing out into the woods with loaded weapons and not one lick of safety training?

In all seriousness to this point - I believe all states now require hunter's safety courses in order to obtain a hunting license.


Yes by law in most states.  However, you can go into a Walmart kiosk to get a license and when it asks you if you've had a hunter safety course you just hit yes and move on.  You don't have to provide any other info on the safety course than that.


Depends on the state.

Missouri issues a card with a bar code and a mag strip, or you have to provide your hunting license (also with a bar code).

No scan/swipe, no transaction can occur.

In PA I had to provide my Missouri card and they keyed in the ID number to get a general hunting license.

I've never bought a license in a state where the guy behind the counter can hit a "skip" button for verifying safety course status.
 
2014-01-24 03:18:13 PM  

busy chillin': But of course they only fish tributaries and really out of the way small streams that have names you haven't heard of.


You know it is funny but this is precisely what the old school, legit to the bone fly fishermen do in my local mountains. They are as far from hipster as you can get, but they are amazingly insular and the streams they fish are known only by thin blue lines on topo maps. They pass down the knowledge (which ones are productive, how to get there, etc) one to one and if you don't know them and have their trust, you will probably never fish the blue lines with any degree of productivity.

I am not connected enough to the old schoolers to fish blue lines so I have to stick to the main-streams.
 
Ant
2014-01-24 03:18:18 PM  
I'd like to start fishing for salmon. I like to smoke it, but it's farking expensive.

/not a hipster
 
2014-01-24 03:19:32 PM  

tricycleracer: Road Rash: Crap. Now I'll never be able to find any ammo.

Nah, they'll make their own artisanal bullets and organic powder and only reload with vintage brass.


I have a bunch of 30-06 brass from surplus Greek rounds.

I wonder how I can market that.
 
2014-01-24 03:19:59 PM  

Old_Chief_Scott: Dahnkster: Me, a few weeks ago at my Louisiana duck & deer camp in the Atchafalya River Basin...
[fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net image 850x637]
I marinated him in blend of PBR and secret spices. You wouldn't have heard of them.



Dude, looks like a good day's work. One less buck to fark up my fruit tree saplings.


I always wondered what it would be like to go duck hunting and not freeze my ass off. I grew up in the North Country of New York hunting on Lake Champlain and it was always f*cking cold.

Well, you can skip NC then. Every time I've gone duck hunting down around Mattamuskeet or Oriental, I've frozen my ass off too.
 
2014-01-24 03:20:03 PM  

Thingster: slognard: HeadLever: autopsybeverage: And this is why I'd be frightened as a hunter -- how many of these newbies are going traipsing out into the woods with loaded weapons and not one lick of safety training?

In all seriousness to this point - I believe all states now require hunter's safety courses in order to obtain a hunting license.


Yes by law in most states.  However, you can go into a Walmart kiosk to get a license and when it asks you if you've had a hunter safety course you just hit yes and move on.  You don't have to provide any other info on the safety course than that.

Depends on the state.

Missouri issues a card with a bar code and a mag strip, or you have to provide your hunting license (also with a bar code).

No scan/swipe, no transaction can occur.

In PA I had to provide my Missouri card and they keyed in the ID number to get a general hunting license.

I've never bought a license in a state where the guy behind the counter can hit a "skip" button for verifying safety course status.


FTFM

*provide your hunting license FROM LAST YEAR*
 
2014-01-24 03:20:16 PM  

Frank N Stein: I realize that you're a farking moron.


HeadLever: We bring this political threadjack to you thanks to the folks at VPN and the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.


Shiat, I'm sorry, Did I interrupt your 3 minutes' hate for people you don't even know? My bad. Gnash, wail, ball up your fists!!! Remember, it's THOSE people's fault you've failed at life, never your own!
 
2014-01-24 03:20:19 PM  

Ant: I'd like to start fishing for salmon. I like to smoke it, but it's farking expensive.

/not a hipster


Smoke it yourself. Google how. It's not hard.

/my dad's joke was always "I smoked salmon today. It was hard I keep lit"
 
2014-01-24 03:21:07 PM  

Hot Lunch: Skarekrough: Please...God....don't let them embrace fly fishing....

Good God, I wish I had never embraced fly fishing. It's expensive and I never catch anything because I suck


Let me tell you about a friend of mine named Hande Grenaide. He's been quite successful hauling trout out of the heaviest cover.

Failing that, a #12 bead head nymph always does the trick for me. Or a Mr. Rapidan dry fly.
In case your waters are stocked, remember that the trout are on a twice daily feeding schedule. First light and last light.
If that's the case, bag the fly rod and get a 1/16th oz rooster tail in chartreuse or white rainbow. Hell yeah.
 
2014-01-24 03:21:27 PM  

Thingster: slognard: HeadLever: autopsybeverage: And this is why I'd be frightened as a hunter -- how many of these newbies are going traipsing out into the woods with loaded weapons and not one lick of safety training?

In all seriousness to this point - I believe all states now require hunter's safety courses in order to obtain a hunting license.


Yes by law in most states.  However, you can go into a Walmart kiosk to get a license and when it asks you if you've had a hunter safety course you just hit yes and move on.  You don't have to provide any other info on the safety course than that.

Depends on the state.

Missouri issues a card with a bar code and a mag strip, or you have to provide your hunting license (also with a bar code).

No scan/swipe, no transaction can occur.

In PA I had to provide my Missouri card and they keyed in the ID number to get a general hunting license.

I've never bought a license in a state where the guy behind the counter can hit a "skip" button for verifying safety course status.



Just got back from duck hunting in your state and as out of state hunters, the lady asked us if we had taken a safety course and we said yes.  I have taken it and it's on file with GA but one of the people with us has never taken it and all that was required of him was to say "yes" when asked if he had taken it.
 
2014-01-24 03:21:34 PM  

EyeballKid: Frank N Stein: I realize that you're a farking moron.

HeadLever: We bring this political threadjack to you thanks to the folks at VPN and the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

Shiat, I'm sorry, Did I interrupt your 3 minutes' hate for people you don't even know? My bad. Gnash, wail, ball up your fists!!! Remember, it's THOSE people's fault you've failed at life, never your own!


You seem bitter. Lol.
 
Ant
2014-01-24 03:24:42 PM  

Frank N Stein: Also, at the expense of sounding hipster to you all. I'm an urban kid. I live in Chicago. But I've been hunting and fishing my whole life.


Not hipster.

I think what people mean when they say hipster, is someone who starts participating in a hobby that others have been doing for their whole life, but once they start doing it, it suddenly becomes the cool thing to do. Plus, they seem to have a sense of undeserved superiority about them when it comes to this new hobby.

I could be completely wrong though.
 
2014-01-24 03:26:24 PM  
Frank N Stein:
Ant: I'd like to start fishing for salmon. I like to smoke it, but it's farking expensive.

Smoke it yourself. Google how. It's not hard.


yeah, we used to do all of our smoking in an old oven with just a hot plate and some dead applewood from a nearby orchard.  Even the commercial smokers are not that expensive.

The brine is pretty easy to make as well.

Hard to beat smoked red salmon.
 
2014-01-24 03:26:48 PM  
Curious to see what would happen when a hipster with a rifle ran into a self-righteous bow hunter in the woods, or on an internet message board... because the results would be nearly identical.
 
2014-01-24 03:27:21 PM  

NathanAllen: Exclude fishing from that, since it is rarely about keeping fish for meals. At most you want to keep a couple crappie or bluegills. Eating that four pound small-mouth or sauger? That's a damned waste of a fish.


Had a two-pound sauger for dinner earlier this week. That was NOT a waste of fish. I caught it in a river down the road from me...probably haven't heard/etc.
(Filleted, sauteed in butter, finshed in a hot oven. Dee farkin liscious)
 
2014-01-24 03:28:01 PM  

moos: Curious to see what would happen when a hipster with a rifle ran into a self-righteous bow hunter in the woods, or on an internet message board... because the results would be nearly identical.


Speaking of bow hunting...  http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympics--hunger-games--popularity-sends - interest-in-archery-soaring-232415744.html
 
2014-01-24 03:28:11 PM  
This really isn't a bad thing at all. Lots of money for conservation comes from hunting, and if a bunch of "city boys" are out there experiencing nature while at the same time providing the funds to preserve it how can anybody hate them for it?
 
Ant
2014-01-24 03:28:36 PM  

Frank N Stein: Ant: I'd like to start fishing for salmon. I like to smoke it, but it's farking expensive.

/not a hipster

Smoke it yourself. Google how. It's not hard.

/my dad's joke was always "I smoked salmon today. It was hard I keep lit"


I do that part already. Brine, dry to form pellicle, smoke. I have an electric smoker on my deck. I've used it almost every weekend since Thanksgiving.

It's the salmon fillets that are farking expensive. I gotta buy a good fillet knife and practice so I can at least buy whole fish and fillet them myself.
 
2014-01-24 03:29:04 PM  

EyeballKid: Shiat, I'm sorry, Did I interrupt your 3 minutes' hate for people you don't even know? My bad. Gnash, wail, ball up your fists!!! Remember, it's THOSE people's fault you've failed at life, never your own!


Moving into ad hominems now?  Did you forget your meds today?

If a hipster wants to learn how to shoot and hunt, I would not have any problem showing him the ropes as long as he was conscientious enough to be safe and genuinely wanted to learn.
 
Ant
2014-01-24 03:30:43 PM  

HeadLever: Frank N Stein:
Ant: I'd like to start fishing for salmon. I like to smoke it, but it's farking expensive.

Smoke it yourself. Google how. It's not hard.

yeah, we used to do all of our smoking in an old oven with just a hot plate and some dead applewood from a nearby orchard.  Even the commercial smokers are not that expensive.

The brine is pretty easy to make as well.

Hard to beat smoked red salmon.


I use brown sugar, candied ginger, maple syrup and kosher salt in mine, then I smoke it with alder. It's pretty farking good. Next up, I want to try cold smoking so I can make lox.
 
2014-01-24 03:30:50 PM  

Ant: Frank N Stein: Also, at the expense of sounding hipster to you all. I'm an urban kid. I live in Chicago. But I've been hunting and fishing my whole life.

Not hipster.

I think what people mean when they say hipster, is someone who starts participating in a hobby that others have been doing for their whole life, but once they start doing it, it suddenly becomes the cool thing to do. Plus, they seem to have a sense of undeserved superiority about them when it comes to this new hobby.

I could be completely wrong though.


Hunting is a great hobby. I encourage anyone who's interested to give it a try. I actually have a hipster friend that's been wanting me to teach him how to hunt. Haven't found the time to take him out yet though. However, he of course wants to hunt with a recurved solid wood bow. I'm more of a gun guy myself. Never been too good with a bow, and I like to get the job done as cleanly as possible. No use making an animal suffer needlessly on my part.
Got off track there. But I support people taking up outdoor sports. It's better than my other friend who is against hunting entirely, and never saw the point of it (until of course we were both broke one week and he saw me eating venison chili and duck breasts while he was eating ramen)
 
2014-01-24 03:31:03 PM  

slognard: Thingster: slognard: HeadLever: autopsybeverage: And this is why I'd be frightened as a hunter -- how many of these newbies are going traipsing out into the woods with loaded weapons and not one lick of safety training?

In all seriousness to this point - I believe all states now require hunter's safety courses in order to obtain a hunting license.


Yes by law in most states.  However, you can go into a Walmart kiosk to get a license and when it asks you if you've had a hunter safety course you just hit yes and move on.  You don't have to provide any other info on the safety course than that.

Depends on the state.

Missouri issues a card with a bar code and a mag strip, or you have to provide your hunting license (also with a bar code).

No scan/swipe, no transaction can occur.

In PA I had to provide my Missouri card and they keyed in the ID number to get a general hunting license.

I've never bought a license in a state where the guy behind the counter can hit a "skip" button for verifying safety course status.


Just got back from duck hunting in your state and as out of state hunters, the lady asked us if we had taken a safety course and we said yes.  I have taken it and it's on file with GA but one of the people with us has never taken it and all that was required of him was to say "yes" when asked if he had taken it.


MO or PA?

If MO there's a skip *if the person was born prior to 1968*. Otherwise I've never bought an OOS permit in MO, as a resident the card has to newcomer.

PA is a bit new on me, but I knowthe guy keyed in my MO hunter ID buying an in state permit.
 
2014-01-24 03:31:11 PM  

moos: Curious to see what would happen when a hipster with a rifle ran into a self-righteous bow hunter in the woods, or on an internet message board... because the results would be nearly identical.


So you're saying that both are terrible shots?
 
2014-01-24 03:31:33 PM  

Raw_fishFood: This really isn't a bad thing at all. Lots of money for conservation comes from hunting, and if a bunch of "city boys" are out there experiencing nature while at the same time providing the funds to preserve it how can anybody hate them for it?


Aside from them literally shooting themselves in the foot?
 
2014-01-24 03:32:38 PM  

Ant: It's the salmon fillets that are farking expensive


Ah, gotcha now.  yeah they are expensive if you have to buy them out of a store.  Living in an area where there are salmon seasons every year does have its benefits.  Or knowing someone that lives in Alaska......
 
2014-01-24 03:34:56 PM  

HeadLever: Ant: It's the salmon fillets that are farking expensive

Ah, gotcha now.  yeah they are expensive if you have to buy them out of a store.  Living in an area where there are salmon seasons every year does have its benefits.  Or knowing someone that lives in Alaska......


I never ate better than when I was stationed in Kodiak Alaska. Between the base and my apartment was a nice stream. In the summer, I would stop off at the stream, catch a fish, bring it home a eat it. I'd also go for halibut on the ocean, and I would head down to the docks and get Alaskan king crab straight off the fishermans boat for a great price.
 
2014-01-24 03:35:50 PM  
Here in Oregon the Hunter safety course is only required for kids under 18. Even then it isn't required if you are hunting on your parents property.

So maybe Portland will see a reduction in the hipster population soon...
 
2014-01-24 03:36:34 PM  

Thingster: slognard: Thingster: slognard: HeadLever: autopsybeverage: And this is why I'd be frightened as a hunter -- how many of these newbies are going traipsing out into the woods with loaded weapons and not one lick of safety training?

In all seriousness to this point - I believe all states now require hunter's safety courses in order to obtain a hunting license.


Yes by law in most states.  However, you can go into a Walmart kiosk to get a license and when it asks you if you've had a hunter safety course you just hit yes and move on.  You don't have to provide any other info on the safety course than that.

Depends on the state.

Missouri issues a card with a bar code and a mag strip, or you have to provide your hunting license (also with a bar code).

No scan/swipe, no transaction can occur.

In PA I had to provide my Missouri card and they keyed in the ID number to get a general hunting license.

I've never bought a license in a state where the guy behind the counter can hit a "skip" button for verifying safety course status.


Just got back from duck hunting in your state and as out of state hunters, the lady asked us if we had taken a safety course and we said yes.  I have taken it and it's on file with GA but one of the people with us has never taken it and all that was required of him was to say "yes" when asked if he had taken it.

MO or PA?

If MO there's a skip *if the person was born prior to 1968*. Otherwise I've never bought an OOS permit in MO, as a resident the card has to newcomer.

PA is a bit new on me, but I knowthe guy keyed in my MO hunter ID buying an in state permit.



It was MO...never been to PA.  In GA you don't even get your license from a person, just a kiosk.  I've never had my hunter's safety course number asked and honestly, I took it before computers and don't have a number.  My GA hunters license just says that it's "on file".  Born in '80 btw so me and my friends wouldn't fall under the prior to '68 rule.
 
Ant
2014-01-24 03:37:30 PM  

HeadLever: Ant: It's the salmon fillets that are farking expensive

Ah, gotcha now.  yeah they are expensive if you have to buy them out of a store.  Living in an area where there are salmon seasons every year does have its benefits.  Or knowing someone that lives in Alaska......


I live in Seattle and work for a seafood company that processes Alaskan salmon. I just don't have the time to learn how to fish. I could buy salmon from my company, but I'd have to buy 25 lbs at a time.
 
2014-01-24 03:39:29 PM  
I don't think the majority will last beyond their first mortally wounded, but not yet dead animal.

CSB Time:

First time I ever shot and killed my first moose was when I was 17. I saw a calf, took the shot and it dropped but wasn't dead. It then started doing it's distress call (think shrieking baby) man I started to cry. I finally got up enough courage to face what I'd done and put the poor sucker out of his misery. While walking, slowly, through the bush towards the beaver pond I'd shot the calf in, I noticed the cow off to my left. Since another hunter in the party had a cow tag, I shot her too. This one was a clean kill, right through the heart. I then finally made it to the calf and put it down. Then I had to field dress these two moose alone. It was well past dark before I made it back to camp to get the other guys to haul the meat out of the bush. Anyway, that time was tough and it gets easier but I'll never ever forget that first calf and his distress call.

/CSB
 
2014-01-24 03:40:42 PM  
What's better than hunting is having a buddy who hunts.
 
2014-01-24 03:43:27 PM  
This is cool, because now we can count on them ruining hunting and making all hunters suffer being judged as being hipster douchebags, which will piss them off to no end.

What can I say? It sounds entertaining.
 
2014-01-24 03:46:06 PM  

autopsybeverage: tricycleracer: Your affordable hobby is not safe from hipster assimilation.  I suggest getting into off-shore racing or transatlantic ballooning.

And this is why I'd be frightened as a hunter -- how many of these newbies are going traipsing out into the woods with loaded weapons and not one lick of safety training?



This is why I never deer hunt on opening day
 
2014-01-24 03:47:19 PM  

verbaltoxin: What's better than hunting is having a buddy who hunts.


Just like boating.
 
2014-01-24 03:48:10 PM  

Ow! That was my feelings!: autopsybeverage: tricycleracer: Your affordable hobby is not safe from hipster assimilation.  I suggest getting into off-shore racing or transatlantic ballooning.

And this is why I'd be frightened as a hunter -- how many of these newbies are going traipsing out into the woods with loaded weapons and not one lick of safety training?

Most states require a hunter's safety course before issuing a hunting permit.



Most states take your word for it....
 
2014-01-24 03:50:22 PM  

Raw_fishFood: This really isn't a bad thing at all. Lots of money for conservation comes from hunting, and if a bunch of "city boys" are out there experiencing nature while at the same time providing the funds to preserve it how can anybody hate them for it?


Because most of the folks mocking "hipsters" lead lives of dull desperation, and naturally enough, resent it.

Still keeping bees.

Mead.

/way too old to be a hipster, but still a hippie.
 
2014-01-24 03:50:24 PM  

Ant: Frank N Stein: Also, at the expense of sounding hipster to you all. I'm an urban kid. I live in Chicago. But I've been hunting and fishing my whole life.

Not hipster.

I think what people mean when they say hipster, is someone who starts participating in a hobby that others have been doing for their whole life, but once they start doing it, it suddenly becomes the cool thing to do. Plus, they seem to have a sense of undeserved superiority about them when it comes to this new hobby.

I could be completely wrong though.


No you're right. The people who always claim that "Hipster is just a word for people who do stuff you don't like." are either Hipsters themselves defending their ever changing "Did it before it was cool" hobbies, or just people who don't understand we aren't attacking people for doing stuff they enjoy; we're attacking people who do stuff they don't enjoy but do it because it's "not mainstream" and usually are doing it the wrong way (such as beekeeping in an urban environment without regard to local insectbourne diseases, the bees' food source, and people who are walking by [like me] who are allergic to bee-stings) or are doing something they enjoy that is mainstream but never admit it and if caught only claim they're doing it "ironically" (as a defense to being an arrogant "more alternative than thou" Hipster, instead of admitting your interests outside "alternative"). We go after these Hunter Hipsters (while wishing there were more Hipster Hunters! :-P ) because they're taking up an activity (most likely) without proper training (which could endanger themselves or other hunters) or good reason to within their idea of "alternative" (which as one poster said before, many of these Hipsters are either Vegan or seek meat that has been slaughtered "humanely", in something like a "free range cooperative organic [etc - on top of other designations] farm") which I don't think luring an animal to a location with a salt lick and then shooting it is one of those "alternative" activities. Seems more to me that some of the Hipsters miss their childhood (many of the ones that come to Brooklyn are from central states like Iowa, Nebraska, Kentucky, etc) and want to go hunting again, call it an "alternative" activity, and the non-Vegan ones (or a Vegan one who says she's only shooting the animal "ironically!" :-P ) will follow on until the activity becomes "mainstream" again (as if hunting isn't a common activity already) and they'll move onto something else again.
 
2014-01-24 03:50:39 PM  
Do not DARE show interest in things lest you become a.......HIPSTER!

/
 
2014-01-24 03:51:12 PM  
Ha ha ironic tag, you're being used so ironically.
 
2014-01-24 03:51:28 PM  
It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

Casual dress?  Hipster.  Tailored suite?  Hipster.  Fashionable clothes?  Hipster.  Utilitarian workman's clothing?  Hipster.  Vegetarianism and hunting, both hipster.  Bicycles, motorcycles, vintage scooters, cars, not having a car, video games, rejecting video games, donuts, paleo, hatchets, rocking chairs, expensive handcrafted wooden pencils and leatherbound notebooks, frugal reuse of inexpensive pencils and paper, taking your notes on a tablet, apple, hating apple, taking a balanced view of apple and their competitors, beards, moustaches, and shaving... all hipster.

Solar power?  Hipster.  Like the smell of vintage engine exhaust?  Hipster.  Ultra-rare homebrew beer, cheap terrible mass-market beer, temperance, rampant alcoholism... all hipster.  Old bands, new bands, rare bands, pop music, death metal, vintage rap, gangsta rap, sci-fi rap, chiptunes, chamber orchestra, EDM, and hammer dulcimer sextets?  Hipster music.

Sports fans.  Sports participants.  Stat nuts.  Made-up new sports.  Dodgeball as a sport.  Crossfit.  Anti-crossfit.  Football.  The other football.  The other other football, you know... the one that starts with R.  Extreme sports like kitesurfing.  Incredibly non-extreme sports like curling.  Dungeons and Dragons.  NOT liking dungeons and dragons because there are better games.  Board games.  Wensleydale.  Cheez-whiz.  Lactose intolerance you're not actually sure you have but which might just give you mild gas.

Girls with glasses.  Guys with glasses.  Google glass.  Not wearing glasses.  Collecting depression glass.  Knowing a rocks glass from a tumbler.  Living in a glass house.  Joining the tiny house movement.  Declaring houses a suburban city-planning dead end that will ruin society.  Buying and restoring an old suburban house.

Hunting, gathering, gardening, eating, drinking, hiking, walking, biking, sailing, rowing, boxing, foxy-boxing, autoboxing, hotboxing, boxhab, box forts, being outside the box, sleeping in a box, unboxing, box recycling, boxing day, new-in-box collectors' items, shoeboxes full of well-loved and used collectibles, letterboxing, pillarboxing, police boxes, beatboxing, and the exact opposite or absence of all of these things.

Everyone but unborn fetuses are hipsters, and some of them get conditional or marginal qualifications anyway.
 
2014-01-24 03:52:48 PM  
The entire population of WV and all their ancestors just became hipsterized.


/and I'm not happy about it
 
2014-01-24 03:53:13 PM  

raygundan: Everyone but unborn fetuses are hipsters


They are young.  farking hipsters.
 
2014-01-24 03:58:16 PM  

raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

Casual dress? Hipster. Tailored suite? Hipster. Fashionable clothes? Hipster. Utilitarian workman's clothing? Hipster. Vegetarianism and hunting, both hipster. Bicycles, motorcycles, vintage scooters, cars, not having a car, video games, rejecting video games, donuts, paleo, hatchets, rocking chairs, expensive handcrafted wooden pencils and leatherbound notebooks, frugal reuse of inexpensive pencils and paper, taking your notes on a tablet, apple, hating apple, taking a balanced view of apple and their competitors, beards, moustaches, and shaving... all hipster.


Display of butthurt whenever people make fun of hipsters?  Hipster.
 
2014-01-24 03:58:19 PM  

tricycleracer: So are muzzleloaders the fixies of hunting rifles?


They're going to use rifles with calibers you probably never heard of.
 
2014-01-24 03:59:56 PM  

Gunny Highway: raygundan: Everyone but unborn fetuses are hipsters

They are young.  farking hipsters.


Now that I'm really thinking about it: *not* being a hipster is a hipstery thing to do.  It is tautologically impossible to not be a hipster.
 
2014-01-24 04:01:40 PM  
I was hunting , sporting facial hair, and drinking PBR long before those whipper snappers got on my lawn
 
2014-01-24 04:02:03 PM  

raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.


After reading this article, I had the exact same thought and worried that I might be a hipster without the ironic t-shirts. Although, I think a good distinction of many hipsters (like the Brooklyn breed) is pretending to be blue collar but actually being upper middle class.
 
2014-01-24 04:02:11 PM  

Xcott: raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

Casual dress? Hipster. Tailored suite? Hipster. Fashionable clothes? Hipster. Utilitarian workman's clothing? Hipster. Vegetarianism and hunting, both hipster. Bicycles, motorcycles, vintage scooters, cars, not having a car, video games, rejecting video games, donuts, paleo, hatchets, rocking chairs, expensive handcrafted wooden pencils and leatherbound notebooks, frugal reuse of inexpensive pencils and paper, taking your notes on a tablet, apple, hating apple, taking a balanced view of apple and their competitors, beards, moustaches, and shaving... all hipster.

Display of butthurt whenever people make fun of hipsters?  Hipster.


Whooooah, there.  I *love* this state of affairs.
 
2014-01-24 04:04:45 PM  

Chimpasaurus: raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

After reading this article, I had the exact same thought and worried that I might be a hipster without the ironic t-shirts. Although, I think a good distinction of many hipsters (like the Brooklyn breed) is pretending to be blue collar but actually being upper middle class.


People have been doing that forever.
 
2014-01-24 04:05:48 PM  

Ant: I live in Seattle and work for a seafood company that processes Alaskan salmon. I just don't have the time to learn how to fish.


I love to hunt and fish.  Salmon fishing above all.  I would consider myself pretty busy, but I do make time for these activities.

And don't forget that fish typically freezes well. We typically freeze all of our excess salmon here (probably about 50 pounds a year on a good year).  Just make sure to eat it within a year or so.
 
2014-01-24 04:08:12 PM  

Michic: I thought these people were vegan? Are they over that, too?



They're hunting squash.
 
2014-01-24 04:09:40 PM  

Chimpasaurus: raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

After reading this article, I had the exact same thought and worried that I might be a hipster without the ironic t-shirts. Although, I think a good distinction of many hipsters (like the Brooklyn breed) is pretending to be blue collar but actually being upper middle class.


Worrying about being a hipster is pretty hipster... but so is totally not caring.  And being moderately interested.  Or having a sociological interest in why a group label that includes all groups except your own hyper-precise personal grouping might have arisen.  Or why some groups self-apply it.  Or having thoughts about why the word can't be more precise.  Or wondering about its etymology.  Or arguing that the word *is* more precise, but nobody knows this.  Or thinking about low-rise pants.
 
2014-01-24 04:10:08 PM  
In other news, local first responders stop stockpiling epinephrine and fire extinguishers, start stocking tetanus boosters and air-occlusive dressings.

Should be fun to watch.
 
2014-01-24 04:10:25 PM  

raygundan: Xcott: raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

Casual dress? Hipster. Tailored suite? Hipster. Fashionable clothes? Hipster. Utilitarian workman's clothing? Hipster. Vegetarianism and hunting, both hipster. Bicycles, motorcycles, vintage scooters, cars, not having a car, video games, rejecting video games, donuts, paleo, hatchets, rocking chairs, expensive handcrafted wooden pencils and leatherbound notebooks, frugal reuse of inexpensive pencils and paper, taking your notes on a tablet, apple, hating apple, taking a balanced view of apple and their competitors, beards, moustaches, and shaving... all hipster.

Display of butthurt whenever people make fun of hipsters?  Hipster.

Whooooah, there.  I *love* this state of affairs.


Which admittedly, is pretty hipster of me.
 
2014-01-24 04:10:50 PM  

SumoJeb: Going wolf and coyote hunting today! Fishing for ling tomorrow. No hipsters this far north... the oil and gas scares them.



I hope you and your companions all die of hypothermia, or lose limbs to frostbite.
 
2014-01-24 04:12:30 PM  
DarkSoulNoHope: Seems more to me that some of the Hipsters miss their childhood (many of the ones that come to Brooklyn are from central states like Iowa, Nebraska, Kentucky, etc) and want to go hunting again, call it an "alternative" activity, and the non-Vegan ones (or a Vegan one who says she's only shooting the animal "ironically!" :-P ) will follow on until the activity becomes "mainstream" again (as if hunting isn't a common activity already) and they'll move onto something else again.

Epic facepalm.
 
2014-01-24 04:12:49 PM  

give me doughnuts: I hope you and your companions all die of hypothermia, or lose limbs to frostbite


Why are you mad?
 
2014-01-24 04:14:16 PM  

autopsybeverage: tricycleracer: Your affordable hobby is not safe from hipster assimilation.  I suggest getting into off-shore racing or transatlantic ballooning.

And this is why I'd be frightened as a hunter -- how many of these newbies are going traipsing out into the woods with loaded weapons and not one lick of safety training?


This is why there should be a week of hunting for hipsters only.  It doesn't matter what the game is, say that they can hunt ibex, only for that week.  That will appeal to their sense of doing something outside of the mainstream, hunting animals you probably never heard of.  They aren't going to get anything, no matter what it is.  What will be a plus, is the carnage these idiots inflict on themselves, with loaded rifles. It will be glorious.  The bodies will be stacked like cordwood, near the hunting lodges.  The dead will only be identified by their ironic t-shirts, each of which, will be unique, like a fingerprint.
 
2014-01-24 04:14:47 PM  
I had a high regard for hipsters before it was cool, which is now.
 
2014-01-24 04:16:28 PM  

HeadLever: give me doughnuts: I hope you and your companions all die of hypothermia, or lose limbs to frostbite

Why are you mad?



People who trophy hunt, particularly for predators, are douche-bags.
They may as well just go down to the local pound and shoot all the big dogs.
 
2014-01-24 04:17:11 PM  

i.r.id10t: tricycleracer: So are muzzleloaders the fixies of hunting rifles?

Only a flintlock or matchlock.... none of that newfangled in-line 209 primer crap


My guess, a blunderbuss.
 
2014-01-24 04:18:07 PM  
This guy must be the ultimate hipster!
http://honest-food.net/

Frankly, you can call me whatever you want, I'll be over here enjoying my roast duck and partridge pot pie!
 
2014-01-24 04:19:22 PM  

Cheron: Just what I need pork pie hat, ironic tee shirt and PBR walking around the woods with a load rifle.


Time to invest in Kevlar...
 
2014-01-24 04:19:55 PM  

give me doughnuts: People who trophy hunt, particularly for predators, are douche-bags.


Can't manage the big game if you also don't manage the predators. You may not like it, but it is a fact of wildlife management.

And shooting a wolf is much different that shooting a dog.  Unless you dog is chasing and killing deer/moose/elk/cattle/sheep/pets.
 
2014-01-24 04:21:15 PM  

zimbomba63: autopsybeverage: tricycleracer: Your affordable hobby is not safe from hipster assimilation.  I suggest getting into off-shore racing or transatlantic ballooning.

And this is why I'd be frightened as a hunter -- how many of these newbies are going traipsing out into the woods with loaded weapons and not one lick of safety training?

This is why there should be a week of hunting for hipsters only.  It doesn't matter what the game is, say that they can hunt ibex, only for that week.  That will appeal to their sense of doing something outside of the mainstream, hunting animals you probably never heard of.  They aren't going to get anything, no matter what it is.  What will be a plus, is the carnage these idiots inflict on themselves, with loaded rifles. It will be glorious.  The bodies will be stacked like cordwood, near the hunting lodges.  The dead will only be identified by their ironic t-shirts, each of which, will be unique, like a fingerprint.


I'm not going to claim a bunch of johnny-come-lately noobs is going to be the safest sort of hunt... but honestly?  For every responsible hunter, there's always been like 20 guys, guns raised, who've each had ten beers chasing a deer directly toward eachother in the Wisconsin backwoods.  Somehow most of them live, too.  The serious hunters I know won't even hunt on non-private land because they can't be sure they won't be mowed down by the idiots otherwise.
 
2014-01-24 04:21:37 PM  

tricycleracer: So are muzzleloaders the fixies of hunting rifles?


Oh God, keep them out of black powder shooting, please...
 
2014-01-24 04:22:50 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Michic: I thought these people were vegan? Are they over that, too?

These people eat animals you've never even heard of.


It's local, free range.
 
2014-01-24 04:22:50 PM  

give me doughnuts: SumoJeb: Going wolf and coyote hunting today! Fishing for ling tomorrow. No hipsters this far north... the oil and gas scares them.


I hope you and your companions all die of hypothermia, or lose limbs to frostbite.


Bounty is $650 per wolf. Suck it haters.
 
2014-01-24 04:23:33 PM  
Nope;  closest thing a hipster might get to hunting would be attempting to become Chuck Testa's apprentice.   Even then, things would come out looking more like unused props from Dinner for Schmucks.
 
2014-01-24 04:24:01 PM  

2KanZam: Ow! That was my feelings!: autopsybeverage: tricycleracer: Your affordable hobby is not safe from hipster assimilation.  I suggest getting into off-shore racing or transatlantic ballooning.

And this is why I'd be frightened as a hunter -- how many of these newbies are going traipsing out into the woods with loaded weapons and not one lick of safety training?

Most states require a hunter's safety course before issuing a hunting permit.


Most states take your word for it....


in both alaska and washington i was able to provide proof of military service and skip the entire thing.

then again i think at least four of the five armed services do basic firearms/marksmanship training in boot(dunno about airforce. i've heard they don't.)
 
2014-01-24 04:25:28 PM  

letrole: I had a high regard for hipsters before it was cool, which is now.


I had a surname back in the 70s.
 
2014-01-24 04:25:33 PM  

Random Internet Persona: DarkSoulNoHope: Seems more to me that some of the Hipsters miss their childhood (many of the ones that come to Brooklyn are from central states like Iowa, Nebraska, Kentucky, etc) and want to go hunting again, call it an "alternative" activity, and the non-Vegan ones (or a Vegan one who says she's only shooting the animal "ironically!" :-P ) will follow on until the activity becomes "mainstream" again (as if hunting isn't a common activity already) and they'll move onto something else again.

Epic facepalm.

 
Come on, I bet I made you smirk a little at that one! :) :-D
 
2014-01-24 04:27:38 PM  

Skarekrough: Please...God....don't let them embrace fly fishing....


Might be too late. Their girlfriends operatives have already jacked up the prices of feathers at fly-tie shops for a few years with all the goddamn feathers and roach clips as haute coiture hair accessories. I can't imagine what chaos will occur when they try learning how to reload shotgun shells via youtube.

/hide the children
 
2014-01-24 04:28:24 PM  

tricycleracer: So are muzzleloaders the fixies of hunting rifles?


Nah.... fixies are too modern for that.  Muzzleloaders would be, uh... what do you call those crazy-looking vintage bikes with one huge wheel and one tiny wheel?
 
2014-01-24 04:28:50 PM  

SumoJeb: Bounty is $650 per wolf. Suck it haters.


Do you get to keep the hide as well or do you have to turn the animal in to get the bounty?
 
2014-01-24 04:30:33 PM  

give me doughnuts: SumoJeb: Going wolf and coyote hunting today! Fishing for ling tomorrow. No hipsters this far north... the oil and gas scares them.


I hope you and your companions all die of hypothermia, or lose limbs to frostbite.


The ultimate hipster trick: getting frostbite before it gets cool.
 
2014-01-24 04:30:44 PM  

SumoJeb: give me doughnuts: SumoJeb: Going wolf and coyote hunting today! Fishing for ling tomorrow. No hipsters this far north... the oil and gas scares them.


I hope you and your companions all die of hypothermia, or lose limbs to frostbite.

Bounty is $650 per wolf. Suck it haters.


Wow, really? Around here you get fined for shooting 'em from the re-established herd.

Which is why most farmers will tell you they shot a coyote last weekend.
 
2014-01-24 04:30:45 PM  

raygundan: tricycleracer: So are muzzleloaders the fixies of hunting rifles?

Nah.... fixies are too modern for that.  Muzzleloaders would be, uh... what do you call those crazy-looking vintage bikes with one huge wheel and one tiny wheel?


Penny-farthing?  Man, that's like a blunderbuss.
 
2014-01-24 04:32:00 PM  

raygundan: tricycleracer: So are muzzleloaders the fixies of hunting rifles?

Nah.... fixies are too modern for that.  Muzzleloaders would be, uh... what do you call those crazy-looking vintage bikes with one huge wheel and one tiny wheel?


I don't know the name, but it's what Homer got kicked for!

thepennyfarthing.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-24 04:32:39 PM  

HeadLever: SumoJeb: Bounty is $650 per wolf. Suck it haters.

Do you get to keep the hide as well or do you have to turn the animal in to get the bounty?

we get to keep them. i give them to my trapper buddy. he has been getting great money for the coyote and wolf furs this year

 
2014-01-24 04:33:13 PM  

autopsybeverage: And this is why I'd be frightened as a hunter -- how many of these newbies are going traipsing out into the woods with loaded weapons and not one lick of safety training?


Just to frame this comment, I'm a lifetime member of the NRA.

I would not be opposed to a mandatory gun safety class before one can obtain a hunting licence.
 
2014-01-24 04:34:48 PM  

SumoJeb: we get to keep them. i give them to my trapper buddy. he has been getting great money for the coyote and wolf furs this year


Yeah, fur prices are pretty high down here as well.  Muskrats are 10 to 12 bucks last I checked.
 
2014-01-24 04:35:35 PM  

tricycleracer: raygundan: tricycleracer: So are muzzleloaders the fixies of hunting rifles?

Nah.... fixies are too modern for that.  Muzzleloaders would be, uh... what do you call those crazy-looking vintage bikes with one huge wheel and one tiny wheel?

Penny-farthing?  Man, that's like a blunderbuss.


Hm.  We're gonna need two scales to compare.  Fixies are just like modern high-tech bikes, except stripped of all the mechanical bits, including some that are useful.  I'm on the fence as to whether a single-shot bolt action rifle is closer to a fixie, or a singlespeed, though.  The more I think about it, you might have been right originally.

Having this discussion is pretty hipster.  Of course, so is intentionally not having it.
 
2014-01-24 04:35:44 PM  

TehMvnk: Nope;  closest thing a hipster might get to hunting would be attempting to become Chuck Testa's apprentice.   Even then, things would come out looking more like unused props from Dinner for Schmucks.


Just shows what kind of commercial you can put together with a $20.  Where did he get the hat?  From the Wehrmacht.
 
2014-01-24 04:37:38 PM  
so is everything someone doesnt like hipster now? is the word hipster the new "gay"?
 
2014-01-24 04:39:15 PM  

Skarekrough: Please...God....don't let them embrace fly fishing....


Pro-tip: you might be a hipster already.
 
2014-01-24 04:40:41 PM  

tricycleracer: raygundan: tricycleracer: So are muzzleloaders the fixies of hunting rifles?

Nah.... fixies are too modern for that.  Muzzleloaders would be, uh... what do you call those crazy-looking vintage bikes with one huge wheel and one tiny wheel?

Penny-farthing?  Man, that's like a blunderbuss.


Actually... here's what we need for a gun to be like a fixie.  Take a totally normal modern firearm, and then *convert* it to muzzle-loading and grind off the ironsights.  THAT would comfortably express the weirdness and awkwardness that is the overreaching attempt to simplify embodied in a fixie bike.  A Marlin Model 60 with the receiver welded in place.
 
2014-01-24 04:45:04 PM  
I've been thinking about it, and rifles of any vintage and type, may be too mainstream.  I bet they go for trebuchets.  They will just lob a barrage of large rocks into the woods, and then go in and see what was ironically killed.
 
2014-01-24 04:45:14 PM  

raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.


Not really.  They're easy to spot pretentious douchebags who, when you see them, you immediately want to punch in the face.  Then again, I'm 50 so I see things differnt.
 
2014-01-24 04:45:54 PM  

give me doughnuts: SumoJeb: Going wolf and coyote hunting today! Fishing for ling tomorrow. No hipsters this far north... the oil and gas scares them.


I hope you and your companions all die of hypothermia, or lose limbs to frostbite.


I hope you get aids.
 
2014-01-24 04:49:07 PM  

doubled99: "We never buy a package of ground beef. Ever," said Larsen.


Now that's hipster shiat right there


She hunts cows?
 
2014-01-24 04:50:37 PM  

Ebbelwoi: raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

Not really.  They're easy to spot pretentious douchebags who, when you see them, you immediately want to punch in the face.  Then again, I'm 50 so I see things differnt.


Bah!  When you get older, you won't be so discriminating.  I'm 63, and I want to punch just about everybody in the face.
 
2014-01-24 04:52:10 PM  
Huh, I read that as proclaim bookkeeping over hunting and fishing, was wondering what all the hubbub was about.
 
2014-01-24 04:54:54 PM  

Ow! That was my feelings!: autopsybeverage: tricycleracer: Your affordable hobby is not safe from hipster assimilation.  I suggest getting into off-shore racing or transatlantic ballooning.

And this is why I'd be frightened as a hunter -- how many of these newbies are going traipsing out into the woods with loaded weapons and not one lick of safety training?

Most states require a hunter's safety course before issuing a hunting permit.


In FL this is true for people who were born in 1975 and after. Born before that? Have at it.

/grandfathered in by one year
 
2014-01-24 04:55:48 PM  

Ebbelwoi: raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

Not really.  They're easy to spot pretentious douchebags who, when you see them, you immediately want to punch in the face.  Then again, I'm 50 so I see things differnt.


I'm 32, I agree with you. Of course I'm a 32 year old Goth DJ who has suffered from the stench of non-showering Hipsters who invade Goth clubs (because it's "alternative" to them, not for any good reason like 'Enjoying the music, club, and/or people'), and standing on the dance floor in a big evil grouping (not to the side of the dance floor, or sitting/standing at the bar) in the way of actual dancers, while critiquing the club and the patrons to their smelly Hipster friends. So we may see things differently, but it doesn't mean we don't have good reasons (or could even have similar ones) to hate these pretentious douchebags! :)
 
2014-01-24 04:56:18 PM  

Jimmysolson: Huh, I read that as proclaim bookkeeping over hunting and fishing, was wondering what all the hubbub was about.


You probably never heard of it, Ironic bookkeeping.  The IRS is going to go wild over it.
 
2014-01-24 04:56:51 PM  

fanbladesaresharp: Skarekrough: Please...God....don't let them embrace fly fishing....

Might be too late. Their girlfriends operatives have already jacked up the prices of feathers at fly-tie shops for a few years with all the goddamn feathers and roach clips as haute coiture hair accessories. I can't imagine what chaos will occur when they try learning how to reload shotgun shells via youtube.

/hide the children


Actually, the price of feather is dropping.

Whiting is shipping most of their product to hairdressers.  For $20 I picked up a bag of Cape feather that will make a ton of flatings.

No, the market isn't bottoming out like I hoped, but for the first time there are quality products out there for reasonable prices.

I was lucky though, two years ago I ran into a guy who was down-sizing and took some pity on me.  He set me up with some grizzly capes that were just beautiful.
 
2014-01-24 05:00:36 PM  

KawaiiNot: Well once they grew the beards, I knew hunting and fishing weren't long behind. Next they build a cabin and make friends with bear cub. It's inevitable. What has happened before will happen again:


i.imgur.com

Whos Steve?
 
2014-01-24 05:22:54 PM  

give me doughnuts: SumoJeb: Going wolf and coyote hunting today! Fishing for ling tomorrow. No hipsters this far north... the oil and gas scares them.


I hope you and your companions all die of hypothermia, or lose limbs to frostbite.


Frankfort's wolves were eradicated in the 19th century. Now they only exist in Tshirt form.
 
2014-01-24 05:31:43 PM  

Ebbelwoi: raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

Not really.  They're easy to spot pretentious douchebags who, when you see them, you immediately want to punch in the face.  Then again, I'm 50 so I see things differnt.


Honestly, curmudgeonly people over 50 are far worse. At least hipsters don't have ridiculously paranoid Fox News nuttery going on in their heads about Obama and government.
 
m00
2014-01-24 05:37:11 PM  
Meh, not really. Hipsters aren't interested in anything that resembles work. You can't suddenly be an "authentic" hunter/woodsman overnight. Cell phones don't work that far out in the woods, it's easy to get lost/hurt.
 
2014-01-24 05:39:19 PM  
They need to take up fishing as well.
 
2014-01-24 05:41:06 PM  
Just what I need pork pie hat, ironic tee shirt and PBR walking around the woods with a load rifle.

I can see how someone might be able to mistake them for a deer...just sayin'.
 
2014-01-24 05:42:36 PM  
What the fark is a hipster anyway?
 
2014-01-24 05:43:53 PM  
I wanna see hipsters skin, gut and clean game. That's when I'll know this isn't just a romanticized version of the cute chic in Hunger Games with a supernatural skill at bow and arrow ..

www.outdoorpros.com
Skinning knife and hatchet. Go ahead, think through that these are for ..

After that bloody work, you must cool the caracas as quickly as possibe

www.wildlife.state.nh.us

That's as easy a pictorial I could find that wasn't so gorey it would get me banned for 24 hours

This is the easy part, the thing that gets romanticized ..

www.hunting-newfoundland.com

These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..

Not Safe For Work

So, good luck, sisters. If you can do it, and do it right, hats off and Huzzah. But don't let Hunger Games make you think it's all stalking and magically a fine steak dinner afterwards. There are a lot of bloody steps in between ..

Selah
 
m00
2014-01-24 05:48:10 PM  

raygundan: I'm on the fence as to whether a single-shot bolt action rifle is closer to a fixie, or a singlespeed, though.


I hunt with a Remington Model 33, but you've probably never heard of it.
 
2014-01-24 05:48:15 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: I wanna see hipsters skin, gut and clean game. That's when I'll know this isn't just a romanticized version of the cute chic in Hunger Games with a supernatural skill at bow and arrow ..

[www.outdoorpros.com image 293x273]
Skinning knife and hatchet. Go ahead, think through that these are for ..

After that bloody work, you must cool the caracas as quickly as possibe

[www.wildlife.state.nh.us image 500x370]

That's as easy a pictorial I could find that wasn't so gorey it would get me banned for 24 hours

This is the easy part, the thing that gets romanticized ..

[www.hunting-newfoundland.com image 266x400]

These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..

Not Safe For Work

So, good luck, sisters. If you can do it, and do it right, hats off and Huzzah. But don't let Hunger Games make you think it's all stalking and magically a fine steak dinner afterwards. There are a lot of bloody steps in between ..

Selah


If someone showed general interest in learning would you teach them?  Would you be patient?
 
2014-01-24 05:51:08 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..


You haven't lived until you've disemboweled a moose!

I had a "Field Dressing Kit" with me when I shot my first (and only, so far) moose, which had a pair of long plastic gloves that leaked immediately, a couple of plastic bags to keep the yummy innards in, and ONE moist towelette.  Not quite sufficient, seeing as I was covered in blood up to my shoulders, and then some...
 
2014-01-24 05:51:16 PM  

give me doughnuts: HeadLever: give me doughnuts: I hope you and your companions all die of hypothermia, or lose limbs to frostbite

Why are you mad?


People who trophy hunt, particularly for predators, are douche-bags.
They may as well just go down to the local pound and shoot all the big dogs.


^^THIS x1,000^^

Pro-hunting, keeping a hierarchy in mind; first, target invasive/non-native species (snakehead fish, feral pigs/wild boar etc [in the U.S. they're ALL non-native], lionfish, etc.), second, native species with populations exceeding their carrying capacity (deer in most states, etc.), third, well-managed game species that reproduce in numbers that can support hunting, and so on...

And within this framework, target individuals as other predators do - old, injured, and even, when a reducing a population is a goal, as it is with invasives or deer, female and juveniles.  But the prototypical trophy hunter targets the 12-pt. buck in the prime of life that'll look great on the wall, but provides tougher meat, and more importantly, removes those genes from the pool, resulting in a diminished genetic stock in the population at large.

Only reasons I can see douchebags hunt native predatory mega-fauna?  Line their pockets and boost their misguided sense of machismo, while saving more prey species individuals for said (paying) trophy hunters.  Head's already copped to the first, and probably is motivated more by the second, tho, like most of his kind, won't admit it.
 
2014-01-24 05:55:37 PM  
Butchering is half the reason I don't hunt anymore. It's a pain to do and if you want to do it right, it's an incredible pain and if the weather isn't cooperating, you either end up with subpar meat or you have to buy a refrigerator just for the carcass. The other half is that our rifle season in WV starts Thanksgiving week and I want to spend it with my family and not in the woods. I mostly stick to fishing nowadays. I can fillet a wally in 2 minutes and the guts and bones all fit in a little tiny bag that I can throw out or compost with no problem. My kids though are starting to get the itch and my six year old is a crack shot with his BB gun, so I guess I'll move him up to a .22 this summer and I figure in a fall or two he'll end up dragging me out into the woods.
 
2014-01-24 05:56:35 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org

Biggest hipster ever
 
2014-01-24 05:59:15 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: I wanna see hipsters skin, gut and clean game. That's when I'll know this isn't just a romanticized version of the cute chic in Hunger Games with a supernatural skill at bow and arrow ..

[www.outdoorpros.com image 293x273]
Skinning knife and hatchet. Go ahead, think through that these are for ..

After that bloody work, you must cool the caracas as quickly as possibe

[www.wildlife.state.nh.us image 500x370]

That's as easy a pictorial I could find that wasn't so gorey it would get me banned for 24 hours

This is the easy part, the thing that gets romanticized ..

[www.hunting-newfoundland.com image 266x400]

These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..

Not Safe For Work

So, good luck, sisters. If you can do it, and do it right, hats off and Huzzah. But don't let Hunger Games make you think it's all stalking and magically a fine steak dinner afterwards. There are a lot of bloody steps in between ..

Selah


No saw? You gotta get a good saw.

You are making your life hard on yourself.
 
2014-01-24 06:11:51 PM  
Clemkadidlefark:

These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..

There's another reality about hunting that you might be overlooking.
 
2014-01-24 06:14:14 PM  

cwick: Clemkadidlefark: These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..

You haven't lived until you've disemboweled a moose!

I had a "Field Dressing Kit" with me when I shot my first (and only, so far) moose, which had a pair of long plastic gloves that leaked immediately, a couple of plastic bags to keep the yummy innards in, and ONE moist towelette.  Not quite sufficient, seeing as I was covered in blood up to my shoulders, and then some...


I remember when they legalized hunting moose in Maine. Such a sport. Hunters would go up to the moose that had lost its fear of man and pose for a picture with it. Before slaughtering it, of course.
 
2014-01-24 06:18:24 PM  

Skunkwolf: No saw? You gotta get a good saw.

You are making your life hard on yourself.


You always like doing things the hard way?
www.coronatools.com

Who the fark doesnt know that hunting can get icky?  I wanna meet this idiot so I can get a good picture of it.
 
2014-01-24 06:21:19 PM  

Skunkwolf: No saw? You gotta get a good saw.


THIS. Hacksaw is your friend. Light with inexpensive & replaceable blades.
 
2014-01-24 06:23:00 PM  

Ebbelwoi: raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

Not really.  They're easy to spot pretentious douchebags who, when you see them, you immediately want to punch in the face.  Then again, I'm 50 so I see things differnt.


Let's run down the checklist here:

1. Declares self a member of a group as a way to distinguish himself from others (I'm 50)
2. Is confident his opinion is different than that of "the mainstream" (I see things differnt)
3. Can spot people who aren't as cool as him (easy to spot pretentious douchebags)
4. Is either ironically claiming to be the sort of person who would punch somebody, or is so authentically hardcore that he really WOULD punch somebody just because they have a different hobby or lifestyle

Yeah... your blood test is back, and it shows dangerously high levels of hipsterol buildup.
 
2014-01-24 06:27:15 PM  

Dahnkster: Skunkwolf: No saw? You gotta get a good saw.

THIS. Hacksaw is your friend. Light with inexpensive & replaceable blades.


Seriously am I the only person that uses loppers any more?  Goes through the hip bone like butter.  Rib cage? Snip Snip Snip.
 
2014-01-24 06:31:53 PM  

Hogmeister: give me doughnuts: HeadLever: give me doughnuts: I hope you and your companions all die of hypothermia, or lose limbs to frostbite

Why are you mad?


People who trophy hunt, particularly for predators, are douche-bags.
They may as well just go down to the local pound and shoot all the big dogs.

^^THIS x1,000^^

Pro-hunting, keeping a hierarchy in mind; first, target invasive/non-native species (snakehead fish, feral pigs/wild boar etc [in the U.S. they're ALL non-native], lionfish, etc.), second, native species with populations exceeding their carrying capacity (deer in most states, etc.), third, well-managed game species that reproduce in numbers that can support hunting, and so on...

And within this framework, target individuals as other predators do - old, injured, and even, when a reducing a population is a goal, as it is with invasives or deer, female and juveniles.  But the prototypical trophy hunter targets the 12-pt. buck in the prime of life that'll look great on the wall, but provides tougher meat, and more importantly, removes those genes from the pool, resulting in a diminished genetic stock in the population at large.

Only reasons I can see douchebags hunt native predatory mega-fauna?  Line their pockets and boost their misguided sense of machismo, while saving more prey species individuals for said (paying) trophy hunters.  Head's SumoJeb already copped to the first, and probably is motivated more by the second, tho, like most of his kind, won't admit it.


/FTFM
//sorry Head!
///one of Boobiess and already screwed the pooch - DOH!
 
2014-01-24 06:39:38 PM  

raygundan: Ebbelwoi: raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

Not really.  They're easy to spot pretentious douchebags who, when you see them, you immediately want to punch in the face.  Then again, I'm 50 so I see things differnt.

Let's run down the checklist here:

1. Declares self a member of a group as a way to distinguish himself from others (I'm 50)
2. Is confident his opinion is different than that of "the mainstream" (I see things differnt)
3. Can spot people who aren't as cool as him (easy to spot pretentious douchebags)
4. Is either ironically claiming to be the sort of person who would punch somebody, or is so authentically hardcore that he really WOULD punch somebody just because they have a different hobby or lifestyle

Yeah... your blood test is back, and it shows dangerously high levels of hipsterol buildup.


Lets run down the checklist here

1. Openly declares that "everyone is a Hipster", claiming that a specifying term such as "Hipster" has no meaning, in your prior post (big hint: everyone is different in some fashion, but Hipsters are a similar grouping of people who do "alternative" things for the sake of being "alternative", rather than for self satisfaction or to better the world around them, and act like pretentious douchebags to those who aren't similar to those who aren't "alternative" in a similar fashion to how they are)

2. Creates a list (oops, I did it too!) of reasons why you think that poster is a "Hipster too", while giving reasons that completely don't match to what a Hipster actually is

3. Accuses the poster of being a Hipster, while also claiming everyone is a Hipster, making that statement self serving without evidence to the poster as a person

4. Just defends Hipsters through his posts

Yeah... your blood test is back, and it shows that you're an asshole (Maybe even a Hipster asshole, but I don't have any proof to that so I won't accuse you of it... yet)
 
2014-01-24 06:44:45 PM  

orclover: Dahnkster: Skunkwolf: No saw? You gotta get a good saw.

THIS. Hacksaw is your friend. Light with inexpensive & replaceable blades.

Seriously am I the only person that uses loppers any more?  Goes through the hip bone like butter.  Rib cage? Snip Snip Snip.


This isn't going to devolve into a "butchering" pissing contest, is it?
We need to focus people, the hipsters are coming!

That said, is the saws or loppers thing a larger-animal thing? I regularly do deer, pigs, and goats, going through the whole gutting, skinning and quartering, all with one blade.
 
2014-01-24 06:51:13 PM  

PolyHatSnake: orclover: Dahnkster: Skunkwolf: No saw? You gotta get a good saw.

THIS. Hacksaw is your friend. Light with inexpensive & replaceable blades.

Seriously am I the only person that uses loppers any more?  Goes through the hip bone like butter.  Rib cage? Snip Snip Snip.

This isn't going to devolve into a "butchering" pissing contest, is it?
We need to focus people, the hipsters are coming!

That said, is the saws or loppers thing a larger-animal thing? I regularly do deer, pigs, and goats, going through the whole gutting, skinning and quartering, all with one blade.


Works great on caribou and moose.

imageshack.com
 
2014-01-24 06:52:25 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: raygundan: Ebbelwoi: raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

Not really.  They're easy to spot pretentious douchebags who, when you see them, you immediately want to punch in the face.  Then again, I'm 50 so I see things differnt.

Let's run down the checklist here:

1. Declares self a member of a group as a way to distinguish himself from others (I'm 50)
2. Is confident his opinion is different than that of "the mainstream" (I see things differnt)
3. Can spot people who aren't as cool as him (easy to spot pretentious douchebags)
4. Is either ironically claiming to be the sort of person who would punch somebody, or is so authentically hardcore that he really WOULD punch somebody just because they have a different hobby or lifestyle

Yeah... your blood test is back, and it shows dangerously high levels of hipsterol buildup.

Lets run down the checklist here

1. Openly declares that "everyone is a Hipster", claiming that a specifying term such as "Hipster" has no meaning, in your prior post (big hint: everyone is different in some fashion, but Hipsters are a similar grouping of people who do "alternative" things for the sake of being "alternative", rather than for self satisfaction or to better the world around them, and act like pretentious douchebags to those who aren't similar to those who aren't "alternative" in a similar fashion to how they are)

2. Creates a list (oops, I did it too!) of reasons why you think that poster is a "Hipster too", while giving reasons that completely don't match to what a Hipster actually is

3. Accuses the poster of being a Hipster, while also claiming everyone is a Hipster, making that statement self serving without evidence to the poster as a person

4. Just defends Hipsters through his posts

Yeah... your blood test is back, and it shows that you're an asshole (Maybe even a Hipster asshole, but I don't have any proof to that so I won't accuse you of it... yet)


See.  Everyone is a hipster.
 
2014-01-24 06:59:48 PM  

m00: raygundan: I'm on the fence as to whether a single-shot bolt action rifle is closer to a fixie, or a singlespeed, though.

I hunt with a Remington Model 33, but you've probably never heard of it.


I hunt with a 6.5 mm Swedish Mauser.  It's well over a hundred years old, so slightly older than I am.  You've probably never heard of it.

I replaced the stock sights with a peep sight.

It's the most beautiful gun I own.
 
2014-01-24 07:10:29 PM  

knobmaker: m00: raygundan: I'm on the fence as to whether a single-shot bolt action rifle is closer to a fixie, or a singlespeed, though.

I hunt with a Remington Model 33, but you've probably never heard of it.

I hunt with a 6.5 mm Swedish Mauser.  It's well over a hundred years old, so slightly older than I am.  You've probably never heard of it.

I replaced the stock sights with a peep sight.

It's the most beautiful gun I own.


*fistbump*

I just finished restoring an old G98 Mauser for D1vwife to hunt with this fall.  She somehow prefers the recoil of the 7.92 round over that of a 30-06.
 
2014-01-24 07:19:21 PM  

Dahnkster: Skunkwolf: No saw? You gotta get a good saw.

THIS. Hacksaw is your friend. Light with inexpensive & replaceable blades.

cordless reciprocating saw is one thing i always bring to camp when I guide moose trips. A chainsaw with veggie oil in the oiler works well too, but is nightmare inducing messy.

 
2014-01-24 07:46:32 PM  
Just wait till they start fur trapping or coon hunting...trying to live like Where the Red Fern Grows. I would find it quite amusing if that ever became trendy. But really who cares? If it is just a fad then wait a few years and it will go back to normal. In the meantime make as much money as you can selling them rifles and whatnot.
 
2014-01-24 08:23:42 PM  

Gunny Highway: DarkSoulNoHope: raygundan: Ebbelwoi: raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

Not really.  They're easy to spot pretentious douchebags who, when you see them, you immediately want to punch in the face.  Then again, I'm 50 so I see things differnt.

Let's run down the checklist here:

1. Declares self a member of a group as a way to distinguish himself from others (I'm 50)
2. Is confident his opinion is different than that of "the mainstream" (I see things differnt)
3. Can spot people who aren't as cool as him (easy to spot pretentious douchebags)
4. Is either ironically claiming to be the sort of person who would punch somebody, or is so authentically hardcore that he really WOULD punch somebody just because they have a different hobby or lifestyle

Yeah... your blood test is back, and it shows dangerously high levels of hipsterol buildup.

Lets run down the checklist here

1. Openly declares that "everyone is a Hipster", claiming that a specifying term such as "Hipster" has no meaning, in your prior post (big hint: everyone is different in some fashion, but Hipsters are a similar grouping of people who do "alternative" things for the sake of being "alternative", rather than for self satisfaction or to better the world around them, and act like pretentious douchebags to those who aren't similar to those who aren't "alternative" in a similar fashion to how they are)

2. Creates a list (oops, I did it too!) of reasons why you think that poster is a "Hipster too", while giving reasons that completely don't match to what a Hipster actually is

3. Accuses the poster of being a Hipster, while also claiming everyone is a Hipster, making that statement self serving without evidence to the poster as a person

4. Just defends Hipsters through his posts

Yeah... your blood test is back, and it shows that you're an asshole (Maybe even a Hipster asshole, but I don't have any proof to that so I won't accuse you of it... yet)

See.  Everyone is a hipster.


static.blol.me
 
2014-01-24 08:56:38 PM  

TheSteamingPile: I don't think the majority will last beyond their first mortally wounded, but not yet dead animal.

CSB Time:

First time I ever shot and killed my first moose was when I was 17. I saw a calf, took the shot and it dropped but wasn't dead. It then started doing it's distress call (think shrieking baby) man I started to cry. I finally got up enough courage to face what I'd done and put the poor sucker out of his misery. While walking, slowly, through the bush towards the beaver pond I'd shot the calf in, I noticed the cow off to my left. Since another hunter in the party had a cow tag, I shot her too. This one was a clean kill, right through the heart. I then finally made it to the calf and put it down. Then I had to field dress these two moose alone. It was well past dark before I made it back to camp to get the other guys to haul the meat out of the bush. Anyway, that time was tough and it gets easier but I'll never ever forget that first calf and his distress call.

/CSB


My Dad was put off hunting (used to hunt a ton as a kid) after he wounded a rabbit.  He never shot anything again after that.  I know guys that will only hunt rabbit with a shotgun just to avoid hearing that sound.  They'd rather pick around shot than risk wounding it.

Rabbits in distress sound an awful lot like a baby crying.

/I hunt turkey and deer mostly, when I can find the time.
//Had to find other people to teach me, Dad would have none of it.
 
2014-01-24 09:19:21 PM  

trackerbri: TheSteamingPile: I don't think the majority will last beyond their first mortally wounded, but not yet dead animal.

CSB Time:

First time I ever shot and killed my first moose was when I was 17. I saw a calf, took the shot and it dropped but wasn't dead. It then started doing it's distress call (think shrieking baby) man I started to cry. I finally got up enough courage to face what I'd done and put the poor sucker out of his misery. While walking, slowly, through the bush towards the beaver pond I'd shot the calf in, I noticed the cow off to my left. Since another hunter in the party had a cow tag, I shot her too. This one was a clean kill, right through the heart. I then finally made it to the calf and put it down. Then I had to field dress these two moose alone. It was well past dark before I made it back to camp to get the other guys to haul the meat out of the bush. Anyway, that time was tough and it gets easier but I'll never ever forget that first calf and his distress call.

/CSB

My Dad was put off hunting (used to hunt a ton as a kid) after he wounded a rabbit.  He never shot anything again after that.  I know guys that will only hunt rabbit with a shotgun just to avoid hearing that sound.  They'd rather pick around shot than risk wounding it.

Rabbits in distress sound an awful lot like a baby crying.

/I hunt turkey and deer mostly, when I can find the time.
//Had to find other people to teach me, Dad would have none of it.


I heard that rabbit in distress sound, not while hunting.  My dog chased a Jack Rabbit through our pasture and into our horse arena. The rabbit must've figured it was cornered and it let out a blood curdling scream, jumped about 15 feet straight up into the air and landed dead as a door nail.
 
2014-01-24 09:44:59 PM  

Farking Canuck: The only people I ever see using the word "hipster" are the intellectually and/or physically lazy.

It seems to roughly translate to "some people are putting effort into something that I don't do/like so I am going to apply a derogatory label to them".


Fail.

A hipster is one who undertakes a recreational activity primarily *for effect*... for the attention from others.

There are secondary goals too, but you're a hipster if your primary goal is the audience.
 
2014-01-24 10:05:13 PM  

Breathe Laugh Twitch: Farking Canuck: The only people I ever see using the word "hipster" are the intellectually and/or physically lazy.

It seems to roughly translate to "some people are putting effort into something that I don't do/like so I am going to apply a derogatory label to them".

Fail.

A hipster is one who undertakes a recreational activity primarily *for effect*... for the attention from others.

There are secondary goals too, but you're a hipster if your primary goal is the audience.


This ^^^^

Does it really upset certain people when we use a derogatory term (Hipster) towards a group of people that have earned it by their own annoying actions and showoff personalities? You can be all the "alternative" you want to be, just don't do it for an audience, do it for yourself, and don't act like a pretentious douchebag towards people who aren't as "alternative" as your or not "alternative" in the same way you are.
 
2014-01-24 10:15:51 PM  

Ant: So what exactly is it that differentiates them from regular hunters and fishermen? Are they doing it ironically? How does this stuff work?


They leave the kill in the woods/let the fish go once it's caught because, you know, circle of life, man.

That's if they've realized that, with a firearm, they aim the explodey end at the non-human animal and with a bow, they aim the pointy end at the non-human animal/don't snag their hooks on themselves and/or everything else when casting. And God help them if they "discover" fly fishing (hell, I've been fishing over 30 years and I still suck at fly fishing)...
 
2014-01-24 10:17:31 PM  

Hot Lunch: Skarekrough: Please...God....don't let them embrace fly fishing....

Good God, I wish I had never embraced fly fishing. It's expensive and I never catch anything because I suck


Never give up. When it all comes together it's a wonderful experience.
 
2014-01-24 10:19:28 PM  

Old_Chief_Scott: Dahnkster: Me, a few weeks ago at my Louisiana duck & deer camp in the Atchafalya River Basin...
[fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net image 850x637]
I marinated him in blend of PBR and secret spices. You wouldn't have heard of them.

I always wondered what it would be like to go duck hunting and not freeze my ass off. I grew up in the North Country of New York hunting on Lake Champlain and it was always f*cking cold.


I'd love to see them take up ice fishing like my cousins in so-far-upstate-they're-damn-near-Canadians. Over/under on how long they'd last up there? I say five minutes, but I'm feeling generous today.
 
2014-01-24 10:35:10 PM  

yakmans_dad: cwick: Clemkadidlefark: These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..

You haven't lived until you've disemboweled a moose!

I had a "Field Dressing Kit" with me when I shot my first (and only, so far) moose, which had a pair of long plastic gloves that leaked immediately, a couple of plastic bags to keep the yummy innards in, and ONE moist towelette.  Not quite sufficient, seeing as I was covered in blood up to my shoulders, and then some...

I remember when they legalized hunting moose in Maine. Such a sport. Hunters would go up to the moose that had lost its fear of man and pose for a picture with it. Before slaughtering it, of course.


You are a liar.
 
m00
2014-01-24 10:53:48 PM  

Frank N Stein: yakmans_dad: cwick: Clemkadidlefark: These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..

You haven't lived until you've disemboweled a moose!

I had a "Field Dressing Kit" with me when I shot my first (and only, so far) moose, which had a pair of long plastic gloves that leaked immediately, a couple of plastic bags to keep the yummy innards in, and ONE moist towelette.  Not quite sufficient, seeing as I was covered in blood up to my shoulders, and then some...

I remember when they legalized hunting moose in Maine. Such a sport. Hunters would go up to the moose that had lost its fear of man and pose for a picture with it. Before slaughtering it, of course.

You are a liar.


Seriously. You don't want to go anywhere NEAR a bull moose. I can handle myself around bears and most wild animals, but moose make me loose my shiat.
 
2014-01-24 11:19:12 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: I wanna see hipsters skin, gut and clean game. That's when I'll know this isn't just a romanticized version of the cute chic in Hunger Games with a supernatural skill at bow and arrow ..

[www.outdoorpros.com image 293x273]
Skinning knife and hatchet. Go ahead, think through that these are for ..

After that bloody work, you must cool the caracas as quickly as possibe

[www.wildlife.state.nh.us image 500x370]

That's as easy a pictorial I could find that wasn't so gorey it would get me banned for 24 hours

This is the easy part, the thing that gets romanticized ..

[www.hunting-newfoundland.com image 266x400]

These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..

Not Safe For Work

So, good luck, sisters. If you can do it, and do it right, hats off and Huzzah. But don't let Hunger Games make you think it's all stalking and magically a fine steak dinner afterwards. There are a lot of bloody steps in between ..

Selah


I've always wanted to have that experience. I've done some reading on the subject, but never had any 'hands on'.
It isn't even a consideration when it comes to my bucket list, but knowing how would make for tastier meat, or so I've heard..

/not
//a
///hipster

Log in fail ... Doh!
 
2014-01-24 11:21:27 PM  

zimbomba63: Jimmysolson: Huh, I read that as proclaim bookkeeping over hunting and fishing, was wondering what all the hubbub was about.

You probably never heard of it, Ironic bookkeeping.  The IRS is going to go wild over it.


I can imagine.
 
2014-01-24 11:21:39 PM  
cdn2.sbnation.com
 
2014-01-24 11:45:38 PM  

Hogmeister: Only reasons I can see douchebags hunt native predatory mega-fauna?  Line their pockets and boost their misguided sense of machismo, while saving more prey species individuals for said (paying) trophy hunters.


It is much more than that.  Around here, wolves were reintroduced and kept under the protection of the ESA while their populations grew waaaaay past the goals stated at the time of reintroduction.  This population of an uncontrolled predator caused some elk populations to crash to the point where they had to curtail all human hunting for several hunts.  This not only hurts the areas where hunters spend thier cash, but it caused losses to the state in the way of reduced tag and license sales (not to mention the Pittman Robertson funds).

In these areas, cow:calf ratios and populations were way below management goals while the state's hands were tied with respect to management.  It was not until 2011 until wolves were finally delisted from the ESA and management was returned to the states over the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the enviros.

Ever since the wolf hunt was returned, the wolves have changed their behavior to stay away (this really helps the ranchers and other livestock owners) and it really increased the survival of elk.  So far the wolf hunt seems to be keeping the population of wolves in check and it seems to be helping the elk herds rebound some.  I would consider that a win-win in any wildlife management book
 
2014-01-25 02:25:45 AM  

Clark W Griswald: Hot Lunch: Skarekrough: Please...God....don't let them embrace fly fishing....

Good God, I wish I had never embraced fly fishing. It's expensive and I never catch anything because I suck

Never give up. When it all comes together it's a wonderful experience.


And also, you don't have to start with the wiliest fish in the river.  It's a lot of fun to catch a bluegill on a fly.
 
2014-01-25 04:07:28 AM  

HeadLever: Hogmeister: Only reasons I can see douchebags hunt native predatory mega-fauna?  Line their pockets and boost their misguided sense of machismo, while saving more prey species individuals for said (paying) trophy hunters.

It is much more than that.  Around here, wolves were reintroduced and kept under the protection of the ESA while their populations grew waaaaay past the goals stated at the time of reintroduction.  This population of an uncontrolled predator caused some elk populations to crash to the point where they had to curtail all human hunting for several hunts.  This not only hurts the areas where hunters spend thier cash, but it caused losses to the state in the way of reduced tag and license sales (not to mention the Pittman Robertson funds).

In these areas, cow:calf ratios and populations were way below management goals while the state's hands were tied with respect to management.  It was not until 2011 until wolves were finally delisted from the ESA and management was returned to the states over the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the enviros.

Ever since the wolf hunt was returned, the wolves have changed their behavior to stay away (this really helps the ranchers and other livestock owners) and it really increased the survival of elk.  So far the wolf hunt seems to be keeping the population of wolves in check and it seems to be helping the elk herds rebound some.  I would consider that a win-win in any wildlife management book


I'm not aware of those dynamics.  I AM, however, aware of studies showing the return of the wolf changing ungulate behavior, specifically, by keeping them from spending all their time in the nutritious riparian habitats, as they had been doing during the decades in which humans had eliminated predation pressures from wolves by, well, eliminating wolves.  Said riparian habitat suffered in biodiversity, erosion and overall quality, and these conditions began to improve almost immediately upon the re-introduction of the wolf.

Curious thing, those wolf population "management goals" - as I recall, they were set based more on what wildlife biologists could eke past the political pressures from livestock interests (and well-paid trophy hunting guides - like you, perhaps?), not on what wildlife biologists interested in wolf recovery and range land restoration actually believed was best.  Just another example of science being trumped by monied political interests.  If the ranchers had it their way, most of them would prefer wolves only as stuffed reminders of one of the apex predators that used to keep things in balance.  I wonder how many more wolves the remaining habitat, much of it national forest land, could support if it wasn't for the welfare ranching done on it.  It's a damn shame how degraded these habitats have become due in part to grazing permitted at rates well below market rate for grazing permits compared to private range land (i.e., welfare ranching).  Funny how I've never heard a conservative carp about the "gov'mnt leeches" when it comes to leasing sales of public lands to ranching or mining interests that amount to fire sales if not outright give-aways.

As for the actual ecosystem management you profess to value, how ever did the whole thing not come crashing down without the ever-helpful European arrivals to help "manage" predator numbers?  Oh, that's right, it managed just fine.

I find it hard to believe that a predator that, for tens or hundreds of thousands of years, was the predominant apex predator in North America (in terms of it's impact on ungulates - neither mountain lions nor grizzlies came close), was subsequently wiped out in all but a few pockets (Isle Royal, Glaciar National Park, perhaps a few other spots in Montana, Idaho) in the continental United States, and has just recently, and at great expense, been re-established in a few western states, is suddenly not only not at risk, but over-populated.  As the kids say, nubian, please.  Their numbers are an infinitesimal fraction of what they once were, and while I understand they'll never achieve those numbers again as long as we're as bloated as we are, they're a long, long way from infringing on anything more serious than ranchers' sweatheart deals, and hunting guides' numbers.

Look, I can respect unfettered self-interest - I don't agree with it, and I believe it's gotten us to the farked up place we are today ecologically speaking.  But at least it's comprehendable and honest.  Just don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.  Ungulate numbers are kept in check by the elements, and predation.  Predator numbers are kept in check by reproduction that's directly related to habitat quantity and quality, and prey availability.  Looking for the real motivation behind "controlling" predator numbers by humans?  As Deepthroat said, follow the money.  It's always about the money.

p.s. oh, and about your butthurt over wolves causing elk population declines?  Here's a shocker - that's a bunch of b.s.  http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/newshound/2013/06/study-wolves-not-c a use-wyoming-elk-decline
 
2014-01-25 04:17:24 AM  

Hogmeister: p.s. oh, and about your butthurt over wolves causing elk population declines?  Here's a shocker - that's a bunch of b.s.


He doesn't believe in climate change, either. I wouldn't sweat it.
 
2014-01-25 04:24:48 AM  
Oh, and btw, this is from that same article.  Typical.

Collecting data that shows an elk herd can thrive in wolf country and then getting people to actually believe that data are two different challenges. Hunters and outfitters who have spent their lives in the backcountry - before and after the wolf reintroduction - have already made plenty of their own observations.

Tim Doud, owner of Bliss Creek Outfitters out of Cody, says the elk decline goes hand in hand with the wolf reintroduction.  It's plain and simple:

"The elk population numbers have certainty decreased and it is because of the wolves. That's the only reason in my eyes," he says. "Now I'm not anti-wolf. I don't think they should be wiped out or anything like that. But we do need to hunt more of them. Most people don't see what I see. They don't see the horrific, suffering death of an elk whose hindquarters have been chewed away and can only lay there and die slowly. That's a real shame. Most people ... go to Yellowstone to see the pretty dogs."


Except it's not "plain and simple," at least not as he tells it.  He makes a clear statement, wolf reintroduction led to elk declines.  Except he FAILS MISERABLY to back it up with any real evidence or even logic.  Instead, he describes an emotionally disturbing scene that has no bearing whatsoever on the topic at hand.  Sounds like he's doing a lot more "wailing and gnashing of teeth" than the "enviros" you disparage.

Like I said, typical.
 
2014-01-25 04:44:19 AM  

whidbey: Hogmeister: p.s. oh, and about your butthurt over wolves causing elk population declines?  Here's a shocker - that's a bunch of b.s.

He doesn't believe in climate change, either. I wouldn't sweat it.


Thanks whidbey - I really need to stay away from threads like this (or @ least posts like his) when I'm not outta beer...  really ruins the buzz.
 
2014-01-25 06:03:00 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: these retards are mostly the first generation of sh*tf*cks who are allergic to everything.  Wait for that first dipstick who gets stung and chokes on his own throat.  Ha!


The ONLY thing I am allergic to is Bee/Wasp venom (AFAIK), and I grew up going hunting with family.  Epi-pens are too mainstream for me.
 
2014-01-25 09:30:46 AM  

Frank N Stein: yakmans_dad: cwick: Clemkadidlefark: These are the hard facts about the reality of hunting ..

You haven't lived until you've disemboweled a moose!

I had a "Field Dressing Kit" with me when I shot my first (and only, so far) moose, which had a pair of long plastic gloves that leaked immediately, a couple of plastic bags to keep the yummy innards in, and ONE moist towelette.  Not quite sufficient, seeing as I was covered in blood up to my shoulders, and then some...

I remember when they legalized hunting moose in Maine. Such a sport. Hunters would go up to the moose that had lost its fear of man and pose for a picture with it. Before slaughtering it, of course.

You are a liar.


I thought about how to respond to this. The first thing was "ignore list", The second was rebuttal. But that conversation is "he said/he said". and high blood pressure.  What I hit upon was What You Should Have Said since I think there could have been a stinging, non-defamatory comment. So, without further prelims, What You Should Have Said,

****BEGIN****

"First, I bet you're quoting someone. You don't have that experience. And further, I bet you can't back that up. I've never, ever heard of any hunters doing that or even thinking about that and I've hunted for [X] years. Finally, even if it were true, you're a jerk for trying to link all hunters with what is obviously rare behavior. "

****END****

If that's a fair alternate account, we can have a conversation. Maybe no conversation is wanted.
 
2014-01-25 09:50:43 AM  
 

Gunny Highway: DarkSoulNoHope: raygundan: Ebbelwoi: raygundan: It is currently impossible to not be a hipster.

Not really.  They're easy to spot pretentious douchebags who, when you see them, you immediately want to punch in the face.  Then again, I'm 50 so I see things differnt.

Let's run down the checklist here:

1. Declares self a member of a group as a way to distinguish himself from others (I'm 50)
2. Is confident his opinion is different than that of "the mainstream" (I see things differnt)
3. Can spot people who aren't as cool as him (easy to spot pretentious douchebags)
4. Is either ironically claiming to be the sort of person who would punch somebody, or is so authentically hardcore that he really WOULD punch somebody just because they have a different hobby or lifestyle

Yeah... your blood test is back, and it shows dangerously high levels of hipsterol buildup.

Lets run down the checklist here

1. Openly declares that "everyone is a Hipster", claiming that a specifying term such as "Hipster" has no meaning, in your prior post (big hint: everyone is different in some fashion, but Hipsters are a similar grouping of people who do "alternative" things for the sake of being "alternative", rather than for self satisfaction or to better the world around them, and act like pretentious douchebags to those who aren't similar to those who aren't "alternative" in a similar fashion to how they are)

2. Creates a list (oops, I did it too!) of reasons why you think that poster is a "Hipster too", while giving reasons that completely don't match to what a Hipster actually is

3. Accuses the poster of being a Hipster, while also claiming everyone is a Hipster, making that statement self serving without evidence to the poster as a person

4. Just defends Hipsters through his posts

Yeah... your blood test is back, and it shows that you're an asshole (Maybe even a Hipster asshole, but I don't have any proof to that so I won't accuse you of it... yet)

See.  Everyone is a hipster.


I... think that's the angriest way anyone has ever arrived at total agreement with me.
 
2014-01-25 10:06:45 AM  

Hogmeister: I AM, however, aware of studies showing the return of the wolf changing ungulate behavior, specifically, by keeping them from spending all their time in the nutritious riparian habitats, as they had been doing during the decades in which humans had eliminated predation pressures from wolves by, well, eliminating wolves.  Said riparian habitat suffered in biodiversity, erosion and overall quality, and these conditions began to improve almost immediately upon the re-introduction of the wolf.


That is true for places like Yellowstone park where elk were not hunted or where other elk populations were to high.  However, that was not necessarily the case everywhere throughout the intermountain west where they were reintroduced.

Curious thing, those wolf population "management goals" - as I recall, they were set based more on what wildlife biologists could eke past the political pressures from livestock interests (and well-paid trophy hunting guides - like you, perhaps?), not on what wildlife biologists interested in wolf recovery and range land restoration actually believed was best.

No.  Wildlife biologist know the impact that wolves have on both game animals and livestock.  They knew conflict in these areas would be best handled by maintaining a small  population in these ares.  What the wildlife biologist were concerned about are things about dispersion and interbreeding.  This is not an issue with the state management plan and was the reason that the environmentalist challenge to removal from the ESA was overruled.

 I wonder how many more wolves the remaining habitat, much of it national forest land, could support if it wasn't for the welfare ranching done on it.

None in the areas here because ranching does not diminish big game populations and that is the driver behind the state's goal to reduce some wolf populations.  The state's interest here is to maintain sports hunting for big game, which is the primary driver of their revenue.

It's a damn shame how degraded these habitats have become due in part to grazing permitted at rates well below market rate for grazing permits compared to private range land (i.e., welfare ranching).

Now you are entering the stupid realm.  Of course public land grazing is lower because it is not irrigated pasture.  The amount of feed is much lower, herding cost are much higher, and water resources are not developed like private pastureland.  What is the 'fair market value' of public rangeland?  Since it is obvious that you don't know the difference between the two, you have no idea what fair market value even represents in your talking point.
 
2014-01-25 10:20:39 AM  

DarkSoulNoHope: use a derogatory term (Hipster) towards a group of people that have earned it by their own annoying actions


Not me, at any rate.  But this is the problem with the term in a nutshell-- to you, it's derogatory.  Hell, I use it that way sometimes.  Other folks use it as descriptive-- either for themselves or others.  Some use it favorably.  I'm not saying YOU don't have a distinct and clear definition you use the term for, but there must be four dozen different ways to apply it before we even look at how broad people's boundaries for what qualifies are.  Threads where people complain about hipsters are almost always total nonsense, because nobody bothers to mention what they mean, and almost nobody actually means quite the same thing.

I had hoped I was being obviously facetious... it's not that everybody is really a hipster, it's that there are so many definitions in wide use right now that everyone is a hipster to somebody.

I enjoy making fun of morons as much as the next asshole.  But if we're gonna do it, let's pick something that isn't so vague as to be useless for inventing proper insults.  I think fixies-as-street-bikes are the most retarded thing to happen to cycling in 30 years, but I'd make fun of "people with fixies," not "hipsters."  Or "people who shouldn't be near a gun, let alone hunting."  Or "people who post too much in a thread, picking fights, and generally being annoying."  Or "Anyone who uses the words 'autoboxing' and 'hotboxing' in the same sentence."  Or "Anyone who can get genuinely excited about handcrafted hardwood pencils."
 
2014-01-25 10:27:07 AM  

Hogmeister: As for the actual ecosystem management you profess to value, how ever did the whole thing not come crashing down without the ever-helpful European arrivals to help "manage" predator numbers?  Oh, that's right, it managed just fine.


Once sports hunting was adopted as the model and we got away from market and subsistence hunting, things have gotten along just fine.  You really know little of what you speak sir.

I find it hard to believe that a predator that, for tens or hundreds of thousands of years, was the predominant apex predator in North America (in terms of it's impact on ungulates - neither mountain lions nor grizzlies came close), was subsequently wiped out in all but a few pockets (Isle Royal, Glaciar National Park, perhaps a few other spots in Montana, Idaho) in the continental United States, and has just recently, and at great expense, been re-established in a few western states, is suddenly not only not at risk, but over-populated.  As the kids say, nubian, please.  Their numbers are an infinitesimal fraction of what they once were, and while I understand they'll never achieve those numbers again as long as we're as bloated as we are, they're a long, long way from infringing on anything more serious than ranchers' sweatheart deals, and hunting guides' numbers.

Sorry dude, nature no longer exists in a vacuum.  Wildlife management is way beyond that 'natural balance' since current wildlife management for big game revolves around maintaining a robust big game population for hunting opportunity and revenues.  If you allow a natural balance between wolves and prey species, you will eliminate the ability to also hold hunting seasons for these same big game.

Look, I can respect unfettered self-interest - I don't agree with it,

What you don't understand is that the self interest runs much deeper than just me.  These big game seasons, tags, licenses are the main source of wildlife conservation funding.  This is the foundation of sports hunting, sir.  Please pick up the book 'RIfle in Hand' and read about the foundation that was set in this regard by Teddy Roosevelt.  It is no accident.

nd I believe it's gotten us to the farked up place we are today ecologically speaking.  But at least it's comprehendable and honest.

Ecological speaking in the the context of big game and predators, we are in a much better place today than we were at the turn of the century.  This is not debatable and for you to suggest otherwise shows how ignorant on the topic.


Predator numbers are kept in check by reproduction that's directly related to habitat quantity and quality, and prey availability

Only if you allow them to exist in a vacuum.  Again, this is notcurrently the case.
It's always about the money.If it was about the money, we would still be operating a market hunting system.  Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.p.s. oh, and about your butthurt over wolves causing elk population declines?  Here's a shocker - that's a bunch of b.s.  http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/newshound/2013/06/study-wolves-not-c a use-wyoming-elk-declineAnd that is one small herd.  One cherry picked example does not make your overall point.  In fact, your assertion is easy to refute.  Remember, Wyoming wolf population is pretty isolated.   Here is an article that does link the two.
 
2014-01-25 10:57:57 AM  

DarkSoulNoHope: 1. Openly declares that "everyone is a Hipster", claiming that a specifying term such as "Hipster" has no meaning, in your prior post (big hint: everyone is different in some fashion, but Hipsters are a similar grouping of people who do "alternative" things for the sake of being "alternative", rather than for self satisfaction or to better the world around them, and act like pretentious douchebags to those who aren't similar to those who aren't "alternative" in a similar fashion to how they are)


In that sense, "hipster" is a lot like "conspiracy theorist."  Conspiracy theorists bristle at being labeled "conspiracy theorists," and they repeatedly try to argue that everyone else is a conspiracy theorist simply because they do things or think things.
 
2014-01-25 11:10:05 AM  

whidbey: He doesn't believe in climate change, either. I wouldn't sweat it.


citation needed.

Going to call BS on this one, liar.  Not hard to see why most consider you to be a partisan tool as truth doesn't matter much to you.
 
2014-01-25 11:13:44 AM  

Hogmeister: Except he FAILS MISERABLY to back it up with any real evidence or even logic.


That has already been demonstrated.  The link is there for areas with high wolf populations.  What we are seeing now is that the wolf hunt is keeping the wolves out of the big game wintering areas and really helps winter survival.  In this case, it appears that both wolf and big game populations are stabilizing.  With the wolf hunt enacted, it looks like wolves and big game can exist in numbers that can many on both sides pretty happy.
 
2014-01-25 11:48:29 AM  

Gunny Highway: Do not DARE show interest in things lest you become a.......HIPSTER!

/


The difference between hipster interest and genuine interest is that hipsters need others to know about it.

If you can really enjoy kale, fixies, PBR, or raw-only cuisine in complete and private solitude, then that's not being a hipster.
 
2014-01-25 02:20:08 PM  

raygundan: I had hoped I was being obviously facetious... it's not that everybody is really a hipster, it's that there are so many definitions in wide use right now that everyone is a hipster to somebody.


Well, the problem with the idea of being "obviously facetious" is that you have to actually be joking about it and not trying to reiterate your flawed argument that either "everyone is a hipster" or "everyone is a hipster to somebody". In general terms, someone can be part of a particular subculture and can be easily identified by the commonalities they hold.

I'll give you video help for this one. Evolution of the Hipster - Glove and Boots

For example of my own, I consider myself a Goth, I wear clothes similar but not exactly the same to other Goths, I listen to music the same or similar to other Goths, and I usually either DJ or just patronize the clubs and venues that other Goths do. I have my own tastes in other things that could be considered "not Goth", as in not generally considered part of the subculture, but that doesn't prevent me from being more than likely identified as a member of the subculture. Here is the difference between (most) members of the Goth subculture and Hipsters, Goths may look and act similar to each other but individually we do it because we enjoy it for ourselves, we don't do it for an audience or to "show how Goth we are" (in fact that's why we dance inside a Goth club, to be in a place that is isolated but the night is designated to music we enjoy), and we don't act snooty or be a pretentious asshole to someone who isn't a Goth. This is in stark contrast to a Hipster who would be sitting down at a coffee shop (usually outside, for the audience) while listening to a vinyl record player that he brought headphones to listen to (That Hipster could have brought that coffee home to drink, it would make more sense than lugging around a vinyl player and records to listen to something on headphones!), while giving the evil eye to a person who walks into the coffee shop listening to their music from an MP3 player (I have a cheap Sony one myself :-P ) or portable CD walkman (I have one of those too :-P ). A Hipster will do things for show, act as if you aren't doing that thing similar to how they're doing it makes you either a "conformist" or "misinformed" even if they're doing it the wrong way, steal old ideas or (quite rarely) invent ideas of their own (like the Cronut) and support it until it becomes mainstream and then they disown that idea (even if they invented it) as "I did that before it was cool" (same show off attitude), and basically just be pretentious douchebags.

With the video above from Glove and Boots, they'll explain (and it's true from my personal experience) that the point of Hipsters is that they "refuse to conform" to anything and that *should* make them hard to identify, but inexplicably they all dress and act the exact same way! This will be shown as well as other annoying Hipster qualities, since I have already explained enough to show my viewpoint.
 
2014-01-25 02:22:51 PM  
trackerbri:

My Dad was put off hunting (used to hunt a ton as a kid) after he wounded a rabbit.  He never shot anything again after that.  I know guys that will only hunt rabbit with a shotgun just to avoid hearing that sound.  They'd rather pick around shot than risk wounding it.

Rabbits in distress sound an awful lot like a baby crying.

/I hunt turkey and deer mostly, when I can find the time.
//Had to find other people to teach me, Dad would have none of it.


My dad had the same experience and the same reaction.  Never hunted again.
 
2014-01-25 02:33:56 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: I have my own tastes in other things that could be considered "not Goth", as in not generally considered part of the subculture, but that doesn't prevent me from being more than likely identified as a member of the subculture.


One thing I forgot to mention, because I have tastes and interests considered "not part of the Goth subculture" (for example, one of my favorite bands is Hall and Oates, my favorite sport is hockey [go New Jersey Devils!], and my favorite television series is Star Trek: Deep Space Nine [as well as other Star Trek tv series and movies], as well as other things "not Goth"), that doesn't disown me from being a Goth nor will anyone (anyone I won't stomp down upon anyway) try to tell me that I am "Not Goth enough" because of my interests outside of the subculture.

A Hipster on the otherhand will disown those people (they might even try to "save" friends they have from going "Mainstream" if the joke on Portlandia is true about that Steampunk convention!) for not being "alternative" enough because they don't do things the way the Hipster is doing them at the time. What's worse is the fact that Hipsters take (steal or create) something and then disown that same something in such a rapid cycle that it is near impossible for an outsider to understand their reasoning other than, "a large amount of people are doing it, so now it's popular, so I must act like it's untouchable, because it's not 'alternative' anymore." It's annoying and I am hoping soon that Hipsterism will one day be considered OVER just like urban beekeeping has been (a joke by the submitter, but I am sure some will be abandoning it for hunting as it is now the "new thing").
 
2014-01-25 02:38:45 PM  

HeadLever: whidbey: He doesn't believe in climate change, either. I wouldn't sweat it.

citation needed.

Going to call BS on this one, liar.  Not hard to see why most consider you to be a partisan tool as truth doesn't matter much to you.


Right. Because accepting the overwhelming consensus of science= partisan hackery.

Dude, just give it a rest. We know you find environmentalists irritating along with other liberals. You don't have to go balls out.
 
2014-01-25 03:44:24 PM  

HeadLever: Hogmeister: I AM, however, aware of studies showing the return of the wolf changing ungulate behavior, specifically, by keeping them from spending all their time in the nutritious riparian habitats, as they had been doing during the decades in which humans had eliminated predation pressures from wolves by, well, eliminating wolves.  Said riparian habitat suffered in biodiversity, erosion and overall quality, and these conditions began to improve almost immediately upon the re-introduction of the wolf.

That is true for places like Yellowstone park where elk were not hunted or where other elk populations were to high.  However, that was not necessarily the case everywhere throughout the intermountain west where they were reintroduced.


Riiiiight...  We'll just take your word for it, huh?  The word of the guy with clearly no financial stake in the matter.

Curious thing, those wolf population "management goals" - as I recall, they were set based more on what wildlife biologists could eke past the political pressures from livestock interests (and well-paid trophy hunting guides - like you, perhaps?), not on what wildlife biologists interested in wolf recovery and range land restoration actually believed was best.

No.  Wildlife biologist know the impact that wolves have on both game animals and livestock.  They knew conflict in these areas would be best handled by maintaining a small  population in these ares.  What the wildlife biologist were concerned about are things about dispersion and interbreeding.  This is not an issue with the state management plan and was the reason that the environmentalist challenge to removal from the ESA was overruled.


Oh, I have no doubt wildlife biologists know what they know.  If you were able to understand my comment, it went to the fact that science is almost never the lone or even leading guiding principle in these matters, and certainly wasn't when it came to setting population goals in wolf recovery, or delisting the wolves once they got a foothold.  If you're arguing that these decisions were made primarily based on recommendations by wolf biologists or range ecologists, you're either being disingenuous (likely), an idiot (still possible) or both (ding ding ding!!)

 I wonder how many more wolves the remaining habitat, much of it national forest land, could support if it wasn't for the welfare ranching done on it.

None in the areas here because ranching does not diminish big game populations


Wait, you're jk, ...right?  Say again?  Ranching does not diminish big game populations.  Hmmm...  I guess all that stuff about carrying capacity, erosion, increasing non-native grasses like cheatgrass, reducing biodiversity, etc., etc... all that's just made up by a bunch of, wait, who was it?  Oh, right, SCIENTISTS doing peer-reviewed work.  Here's just one example.  http://www.augustana.edu/x57074.xml  I'll assume you too can use Google, help yourself to the magnitude of research that disputes what you're spewing.  I'll concede that it's not a given, i.e. it's possible,in theory, for grazing to be done without negatively impacting biodiversity or, as you like to refer to them, big game animals.  But that's rarely the case when it comes to how things are actually done.

and that is the driver behind the state's goal to reduce some wolf populations.  The state's interest here is to maintain sports hunting for big game, which is the primary driver of their revenue.

Yes, thank you for re-stating my point.  The driver is not science, ecosystem management, or wolf recovery.  The driver, as always, is profit.

It's a damn shame ...
 
2014-01-25 04:18:17 PM  

HeadLever: Hogmeister: As for the actual ecosystem management you profess to value, how ever did the whole thing not come crashing down without the ever-helpful European arrivals to help "manage" predator numbers?  Oh, that's right, it managed just fine.

Once sports hunting was adopted as the model and we got away from market and subsistence hunting, things have gotten along just fine.  You really know little of what you speak sir.


Umm, is there anything you'd like to say to back that up?  Was it sport hunting the native Americans were doing for roughly 100,000 years that brought about the bounty that Europeans found when they arrived here?  Oh, no, wait a minute, it was subsistence hunting.  Try harder.

I find it hard to believe that a predator that, for tens or hundreds of thousands of years, was the predominant apex predator in North America (in terms of it's impact on ungulates - neither mountain lions nor grizzlies came close), was subsequently wiped out in all but a few pockets (Isle Royal, Glaciar National Park, perhaps a few other spots in Montana, Idaho) in the continental United States, and has just recently, and at great expense, been re-established in a few western states, is suddenly not only not at risk, but over-populated.  As the kids say, nubian, please.  Their numbers are an infinitesimal fraction of what they once were, and while I understand they'll never achieve those numbers again as long as we're as bloated as we are, they're a long, long way from infringing on anything more serious than ranchers' sweatheart deals, and hunting guides' numbers.

Sorry dude, nature no longer exists in a vacuum.  Wildlife management is way beyond that 'natural balance' since current wildlife management for big game revolves around maintaining a robust big game population for hunting opportunity and revenues.  If you allow a natural balance between wolves and prey species, you will eliminate the ability to also hold hunting seasons for these same big game.


Okay, "Dude," once again, you're proving my point.  But first, I'll concede, because there is so little undeveloped, decent range land left, and because there are so many competing interests, yes, some management is required.  I never said it wasn't.

But you're just making my point when you use, as your argument, "...If you allow a natural balance between wolves and prey species, you will eliminate the ability to also hold hunting seasons for these same big game."  While that's undoubtedly overstated, I have no doubt killing fewer wolves would reduce opportunities for big game hunters.  Cry me a river.  If it comes down to wolf populations approaching a somewhat larger fraction of 1% of their former numbers, or giving better odds to some bozo that wants to fly in from LA and "bag some trophy elk," I'll choose the former every time, and I believe most Americans would as well, were they to understand the choice.

Look, I can respect unfettered self-interest - I don't agree with it,

What you don't understand is that the self interest runs much deeper than just me.  These big game seasons, tags, licenses are the main source of wildlife conservation funding.  This is the foundation of sports hunting, si ...


I have no doubt that you're just a tip of the self-interest iceberg... Dude.  And I do recognize that sport hunting is an important source of revenue for things that tree-huggers like me (who, btw, is also a hunter) value.  So?  Did I make some statement calling for the end to sport hunting?
 
2014-01-25 04:20:50 PM  

whidbey: Right. Because accepting the overwhelming consensus of science= partisan hackery.


Nope, accusing someone of something that you have no proof just because they disagree with you on something else is.  Don't move the goalpost.
 
2014-01-25 04:28:21 PM  

Hogmeister: Umm, is there anything you'd like to say to back that up?  Was it sport hunting the native Americans were doing for roughly 100,000 years that brought about the bounty that Europeans found when they arrived here?  Oh, no, wait a minute, it was subsistence hunting.  Try harder.


Already did.   Read this book.  Also you seem ignorant on what the native Americans did to this land.  Ever heard of the
Quaternary extinction event?  Might want to look that up while you are at it.  Haven't seem many giant ground sloths, mastodons or Mammoths around lately.  You?
 
2014-01-25 04:29:53 PM  
Ecological speaking in the the context of big game and predators, we are in a much better place today than we were at the turn of the century.  This is not debatable and for you to suggest otherwise shows how ignorant on the topic.

Yes, well, speaking of cherry picking...  when did I suggest that the turn of the century was some ecosystem management panacea?  You selected a specific time in history when our understanding of and appreciation for ecology and wilderness was at its nadir relative to our ability to destroy it.  Please, take your straw man home with you.  I'm not ignorant on the topic, but you seem to be consistently disingenuous.  Sign of a weak foundation of your argument, imo.  And I believe you mean to be saying "Ecologically..."

Predator numbers are kept in check by reproduction that's directly related to habitat quantity and quality, and prey availability

Only if you allow them to exist in a vacuum.  Again, this is notcurrently the case.
It's always about the money.If it was about the money, we would still be operating a market hunting system.  Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Well, I know you believe that, or wish it to be so, but you've yet to post anything to support your belief, or to refute what I'm saying.  Please, try harder.

p.s. oh, and about your butthurt over wolves causing elk population declines?  Here's a shocker - that's a bunch of b.s.  http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/newshound/2013/06/study-wolves-not-c a use-wyoming-elk-declineAnd that is one small herd.  One cherry picked example does not make your overall point.  In fact, your assertion is easy to refute.  Remember, Wyoming wolf population is pretty isolated.

So you say. If it's so easy to refute, why have you failed to do so?  I've provided specific and peer-reviewed evidence to support my argument.  Where's yours?
 
2014-01-25 04:36:10 PM  

Hogmeister: it went to the fact that science is almost never the lone or even leading guiding principle in these matters, and certainly wasn't when it came to setting population goals in wolf recovery, or delisting the wolves once they got a foothold.


[citation needed]

If you're arguing that these decisions were made primarily based on recommendations by wolf biologists or range ecologists, you're either being disingenuous (likely), an idiot (still possible) or both (ding ding ding!!)

The decision was made with many stakeholders as there are many folks that this impacts.  The recommendations of the wildlife biologist were mostly in support of this consensus.  feel free to provide a citation where this is not the case.  Just be careful not to cite a biased source.

Ranching does not diminish big game populations.  Hmmm...  I guess all that stuff about carrying capacity, erosion, increasing non-native grasses like cheatgrass, reducing biodiversity, etc., etc... all that's just made up by a bunch of, wait, who was it?

Yep, there are negative impact, but there are also positive ones.  Private ranch lands will provide additional feed for big game herds during winter and fall.  Water projects will increase water storage and availability.  Big game loves salt licks put out by the ranchers.  Overall, I would argue that ranches actually increase the big game populations.  Feel free to provide a source saying otherwise.

ronreil.abana.org
 
2014-01-25 04:41:08 PM  

Hogmeister: But first, I'll concede, because there is so little undeveloped, decent range land left,


Let me guess, you have never been to the western US?

www.apeconmyth.com

That red portion is undeveloped public land owned by the federal government.  Private development is not allowed on any of it.   Much of it is decent or excellent rangeland so long as it is managed correctly.  The county I grew up in was 95% owned by the federal government.  You insinuation of parking lots and strip malls as far as the eye can see is completely wrong.
 
2014-01-25 04:43:25 PM  

Hogmeister: Here's just one example.


Yep, no one that I know suggest that overgrazing doesn't have impacts.  That is not my point and there are many regulations in place to prevent that from happening (fencing of riparian areas, stubble height requirements, rotations, etc).
 
2014-01-25 04:45:19 PM  
Sorry, don't have time to read a BOOK today, but I'll keep the reference in mind.  My citations are write-ups of studies aimed specifically at the topic at hand.  But thanks for hiding behind a tome you know I won't be able to read before this thread is shut down.

I did, however, read the article from The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation you linked, thanks.  Wasn't very insightful though.  There's no methodology offered because it wasn't a study or even a write-up of a study.  It was simply a restatement of elk population estimates from airal surveys, and the histrionic spoutings of the president of the foundation blaming wolves, without supporting evidence.  Example of his reasoned, unbiased assessment:

"The manipulation of this entire wolf restoration program into a "fundraising" tool has to be seen for what it is.  The insanity of this has to stop..."

So I just have to ask, Lever, is this what passes for sound reasoning and impartial judgement in your world?  Figures.

Me, I'll stick with studies using spelled-out methodologies, with conclusions published in peer-reviewed science journals.  You just stick with the redneck rantings of partisans with skin in the game.
 
2014-01-25 04:49:23 PM  

Hogmeister: Where's yours?


You alluded to this yourself when you mentioned that reduced elk number help to restore riparian habitats.  Or are you going to refute yourself now.  If you want a specific study, here is one:
 
2014-01-25 04:51:32 PM  

raygundan: See. Everyone is a hipster.

I... think that's the angriest way anyone has ever arrived at total agreement with me.


That was "GunnyHighway" agreeing with you, by the way (facetiously, I bet, did it better than you [I don't think you though, are being facetious, just defending Hipster behavior] though it still wasn't funny), not me.
 
2014-01-25 04:53:18 PM  

Hogmeister: Sorry, don't have time to read a BOOK today, but I'll keep the reference in mind.  My citations are write-ups of studies aimed specifically at the topic at hand.  But thanks for hiding behind a tome you know I won't be able to read before this thread is shut down.


Here is a decent article on the topic
 
2014-01-25 04:56:08 PM  

Hogmeister: Me, I'll stick with studies using spelled-out methodologies, with conclusions published in peer-reviewed science journals.


What is interesting is that you move your early argument from lauding the fact that wolves control elk so that riparian areas can recover into one that resist any narrative that wolves cause impacts to big game populations.

It sounds like you want your cake and eat it as well.
 
2014-01-25 05:02:48 PM  

HeadLever: Hogmeister: Umm, is there anything you'd like to say to back that up?  Was it sport hunting the native Americans were doing for roughly 100,000 years that brought about the bounty that Europeans found when they arrived here?  Oh, no, wait a minute, it was subsistence hunting.  Try harder.

Already did.   Read this book.  Also you seem ignorant on what the native Americans did to this land.  Ever heard of the
Quaternary extinction event?  Might want to look that up while you are at it.  Haven't seem many giant ground sloths, mastodons or Mammoths around lately.  You?


Now, here's a point I find interesting.  I have heard of those extinction events (though they are dwarfed by the global extinction event we're currently in, and the first one we're aware of caused exclusively by one of the planet's inhabitants - but wait, we MANAGE stuff for the benefit of the planet, right?!?)

You seem to regard these extinctions as proven to have been caused by paleolithic hunting, while that is not at all the case.  Many believe this to be so, and I count myself among them (or at least I believe said hunting was a primary contributing factor), but it's far from a consensus.  Funny, you seem quite ready to accept as fact a mere theory proposed by many scientists - I'm assuming you feel the same about the overwhelming consensus of climatologists with regard to man's contribution to climate change?  But I digress...)

I actually believe it was these extinctions that led to such a strong ecosystem management ethos among early native Americans.  In a sense, I believe these populations learned, as their ability to decimate prey species improved, that they would need to curtail their hunting.  True, this conclusion was arrived at too late for many species, but the extinctions had also ended long before Europeans arrived.

We, assuming you're not Native, and I'm betting you're not, on the other hand, come from a long history of farking up our ecosystems, and then simply moving on, to the "new frontier".  But all this is simply my conjecture.

To our argument, I certainly don't believe native Americans had no impact on the land - I know they did.  But for you to suggest their impact on biodiversity or overall non-human biomass was anything close to approaching the genocide we're impacting on the biosphere today, ...well, to coin your phrase, "shows how ignorant you are on the topic (although you failed to add "you" - details)."
 
2014-01-25 05:13:14 PM  

HeadLever: Hogmeister: it went to the fact that science is almost never the lone or even leading guiding principle in these matters, and certainly wasn't when it came to setting population goals in wolf recovery, or delisting the wolves once they got a foothold.

[citation needed]

If you're arguing that these decisions were made primarily based on recommendations by wolf biologists or range ecologists, you're either being disingenuous (likely), an idiot (still possible) or both (ding ding ding!!)

The decision was made with many stakeholders as there are many folks that this impacts.  The recommendations of the wildlife biologist were mostly in support of this consensus.  feel free to provide a citation where this is not the case.  Just be careful not to cite a biased source.


Omg Head, I owe you.  You're providing some much-needed entertainment on a dreary Saturday.  So, you're saying I should just stick to unbiased sources like, say, The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation?!?  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Ranching does not diminish big game populations.  Hmmm...  I guess all that stuff about carrying capacity, erosion, increasing non-native grasses like cheatgrass, reducing biodiversity, etc., etc... all that's just made up by a bunch of, wait, who was it?

Yep, there are negative impact, but there are also positive ones.  Private ranch lands will provide additional feed for big game herds during winter and fall.


You mean when they're not indiscriminately KILLING them over fear they'll spread diseases like Brucellosis, originally spread to wild bison by cattle?  Like that you mean?  http://www.buffalofieldcampaign.org/factsheets/brucellosisfacts.html

Water projects will increase water storage and availability.  Big game loves salt licks put out by the ranchers.  Overall, I would argue that ranches actually increase the big game populations.  Feel free to provide a source saying otherwise.

Just did.  But no doubt, ranching practices have improved, in large part due to the efforts of those whacko tree-huggers that use things like, oh, idk, SCIENCE to help advise ranchers.
 
2014-01-25 05:15:56 PM  
Here are a few more references to studies linking the two

1
2
3


Of course, now that management of wolves is part of overall state wildlife methodology, it will be interesting to see where this goes.  I really think that we will see a stabilization of both populations that bodes well for everyone, except those that have a hidden agenda.
 
2014-01-25 05:17:12 PM  

Hogmeister: but wait, we MANAGE stuff for the benefit of the planet, right


We only manage what is located here.  The folks in Africa and Asia don't really pay much attention to us.
 
2014-01-25 05:20:30 PM  

Hogmeister: So, you're saying I should just stick to unbiased sources like, say, The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation?!?  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!


There are no unbiased sources in this discussion.  Hence the term 'stakeholder'.
 
2014-01-25 05:23:35 PM  

Hogmeister: You mean when they're not indiscriminately KILLING them over fear they'll spread diseases like Brucellosis, originally spread to wild bison by cattle?


Bison is outside the context of big game with respect to management.  They are a wee bit different than the deer/elk/moose I have been talking about.
 
2014-01-25 05:25:58 PM  

Hogmeister: Just did.


Again, no.  Try coming up with something other than Bison.
 
2014-01-25 05:31:45 PM  

HeadLever: Hogmeister: Here's just one example.

Yep, no one that I know suggest that overgrazing doesn't have impacts.  That is not my point and there are many regulations in place to prevent that from happening (fencing of riparian areas, stubble height requirements, rotations, etc).


Hmmm, and which side of the argument over those regulations that are now helping to limit grazing's environmental impacts do you suppose the ranchers were on?  And which side to you suppose proposed them?

btw, I lived for 17 years in western states, not that that has anything to do with it.
 
2014-01-25 05:36:29 PM  

HeadLever: Hogmeister: Where's yours?

You alluded to this yourself when you mentioned that reduced elk number help to restore riparian habitats.  Or are you going to refute yourself now.  If you want a specific study, here is one:


Wow, dude, please read harder.  I never said reduced elk numbers helped restore riparian habitat, although I suppose that would happen if the elk were in numbers beyond the habitat's carrying capacity.  What I said was that the wolves pressure changed elk behavior, specifically by keeping them from spending all their time in riparian areas.

Please, if you're going to try to use my arguments against me, at least get my arguments right.
 
2014-01-25 05:38:02 PM  

HeadLever: Hogmeister: Where's yours?

You alluded to this yourself when you mentioned that reduced elk number help to restore riparian habitats.  Or are you going to refute yourself now.  If you want a specific study, here is one:


The study to which you link is from 2009.  The study I linked, which refuted that argument, was published last year.  Please keep up.
 
2014-01-25 05:39:00 PM  

Hogmeister: Hmmm, and which side of the argument over those regulations that are now helping to limit grazing's environmental impacts do you suppose the ranchers were on?  And which side to you suppose proposed them?


It depends upon the specific regulation.  Many ranchers can see the benefit of keeping the rangeland healthy.  It is oftentimes within their best interest to pay attention to the scientific studies as it also help them to maximize utilization while maintain rangeland health.


Tying to break this into a us vs them argument is laughable.

btw, I lived for 17 years in western states, not that that has anything to do with it.

Then you should know better, assuming that you have been paying attention.
 
2014-01-25 05:44:10 PM  

Hogmeister: he study to which you link is from 2009.  The study I linked, which refuted that argument, was published last year.  Please keep up.


Date does not matter as your more recent study does not address the dynamics of the 2009 study (it is a different population).  They both are not mutually exclusive.  Also, recognize that the 2009 study was complete prior to delisting, while the 2013 study was 2 or so years into state management.
 
2014-01-25 05:44:57 PM  

HeadLever: Hogmeister: Sorry, don't have time to read a BOOK today, but I'll keep the reference in mind.  My citations are write-ups of studies aimed specifically at the topic at hand.  But thanks for hiding behind a tome you know I won't be able to read before this thread is shut down.

Here is a decent article on the topic


Uh... okaaay.  What, exactly, does an article titled, "The Importance of the Hunter Education Program to the Development of Ethical Literacy Among the Hunting Community" add to this discussion, and how does it bolster your point?

Please keep in mind that I am not anti-hunting.  Nor do I suggest that some environmental barometers haven't improved since the turn of the century.  Honestly, I don't see the relevance of this link, though it was interesting reading about hunters unable to distinguish between an elk and a lamma...or a person, so thank for that.
 
2014-01-25 05:56:49 PM  

HeadLever: whidbey: Right. Because accepting the overwhelming consensus of science= partisan hackery.

Nope, accusing someone of something that you have no proof just because they disagree with you on something else is.  Don't move the goalpost.


Because climate change is such a partisan-driven topic.

Dude, your overall worldview of environmentalism consists of nearly every anti-environmentalist talking point. You've had your ass handed here by actual science several times, so I would bet my left nut that you think climate change awareness= government takeover and redistribution of wealth.
 
2014-01-25 05:59:08 PM  

Hogmeister: h... okaaay.  What, exactly, does an article titled


Dude, If you can't make it past the title, I really can't help much.
 
2014-01-25 05:59:29 PM  

HeadLever: Hogmeister: Me, I'll stick with studies using spelled-out methodologies, with conclusions published in peer-reviewed science journals.

What is interesting is that you move your early argument from lauding the fact that wolves control elk so that riparian areas can recover into one that resist any narrative that wolves cause impacts to big game populations.

It sounds like you want your cake and eat it as well.


Noooo, again, you mischaracterize my point.  I have no doubt that wolves impact big game in general, and elk specifically, although I believe that impact is greater on behavior than overall numbers, but that's really unimportant to my point.  And yes, I do laud their impact, because it's an example of the restorative power of nature if humans give it half a chance.

But please to show me where I "resist any narrative that wolves cause impacts to big game populations".  I celebrate their impact, and don't lose a wink of sleep because some trophy hunter misses out on removing a healthy, prime-of-life bull to mount on his/her wall.

From the Outdoor Life article I referenced earlier (you know, the one from 2013 based on a study that refutes the findings in the study you referenced from four years earlier?):

Ron Lineberger owns Butte Creek Outfitters with his wife Theresa and guides elk hunters in the Wyoming backcountry. Over the years he's seen elk behavior change, and in many ways his observations match Middleton's research.

"Elk behavior has totally changed, but the elk are not gone. Everyone loves to blame the wolf because it's easy ... [Wolves] did change the dynamic for the environment and they've changed the way a lot of animals have evolved. It has led to a bit of catastrophic natural adaptation...

"There has been a succession of fires, which destroyed natural elk habitat. Grizzly bear numbers have gone up and the elk have moved to survive. They have moved to more agricultural and human habitat areas. It's not just the wolf that's caused the change. People just look to put the blame on one thing. Yes, elk have moved to areas that haven't seen elk for 200 years. But there are large portions of healthy elk populations that have moved to private land, which makes them unhuntable ... Think of it this way: the elk are picking their poison. Either deal with hunters in the low country for 6 weeks, or stay in the high country and deal with wolves and bears year round."

The takeaway? Adapting to environmental changes is key to the success of a species, and an elk hunter.
"The hunter has to adapt as well," Lineberger says. "Hunting elk also relies on a lot of factors that we have no control over. The fact that they have become more alert thanks to the wolves, certainly makes it tougher, but hunters must adapt to that. We are no different than any other animal. We must adapt to survive."

That's how I feel.
 
2014-01-25 06:01:46 PM  

HeadLever: Hogmeister: but wait, we MANAGE stuff for the benefit of the planet, right

We only manage what is located here.  The folks in Africa and Asia don't really pay much attention to us.


I see.  So we in the industrialized western world are living in a sustainable, eco-friendly manner.  Good to know.
 
2014-01-25 06:03:44 PM  

HeadLever: Hogmeister: So, you're saying I should just stick to unbiased sources like, say, The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation?!?  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

There are no unbiased sources in this discussion.  Hence the term 'stakeholder'.


Wait, NOW who's moving the goal posts?  You just warned me not to use biased sources (which I hadn't - only peer-reviewed studies, unlike your citation from the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation).  Now there "are no unbiased sources"?

Please make up your mind, you're hurting my head!
 
2014-01-25 06:05:39 PM  

Hogmeister: Now there "are no unbiased sources"?


Of course not. Scientists are being paid off by Big Wolf. That's his whole point.
 
2014-01-25 06:06:02 PM  

whidbey: Because climate change is such a partisan-driven topic.


It can be, but that does not preclude individual variations.

Dude, your overall worldview of environmentalism consists of nearly every anti-environmentalist talking point.

Then I'll add 'paying attention' to the list of things you don't do very well.I am very much against the wackos that subvert the movement for their own political gain, but I'll continue to adhere to science where it leads.

You've had your ass handed here by actual science several times,

Again, [citation needed].  Since you have yet to provide any backup on your earlier assertion, I won't be holding my breath.
 
2014-01-25 06:10:00 PM  

HeadLever: Hogmeister: You mean when they're not indiscriminately KILLING them over fear they'll spread diseases like Brucellosis, originally spread to wild bison by cattle?

Bison is outside the context of big game with respect to management.  They are a wee bit different than the deer/elk/moose I have been talking about.


Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know that, in this discussion of wolf killing to the benefit of everyone, we had to stick to your definition of "big game," a term you introduced to this discussion in the first place.  And you accuse ME of cherry-picking?

For those of us living in the real world, these things are all inter-connected.  Wolf hunts, elk hunting, bison, which, last time I checked, ARE a big game species in terms of being hunted, and do have range land resource needs and impacts, are all part of range land management.

Now you want to disregard them from the discussion because it doesn't conveniently support your argument that ranching helps big game numbers?  Please, you're smarter than that... right?

In any case, I'm pretty sure that ranchers' cattle introducing Brucellosis to wild bison, then killing any bison that wander off national park land for fear of them returning the favor to the cattle, does not improve bison (which are big game) numbers.
 
2014-01-25 06:12:10 PM  

HeadLever: Hogmeister: h... okaaay.  What, exactly, does an article titled

Dude, If you can't make it past the title, I really can't help much.


If you're so confident the article on hunters' ethics so clearly supports your argument, don't hide behind a link to a lengthy tomb, spell it out.  I looked for anything relevant, found nada.  Keep trying.
 
2014-01-25 06:12:34 PM  

HeadLever: Again, [citation needed].


Dude, just stop it. Three words into your "evidence" about the "real truth about wolves" and anyone can recognize it as debunked bullshiat.

At the very least, the honorable thing to do would be to concede that you're wrong about some of what you're stubbornly adhering to.

Then I'll add 'paying attention' to the list of things you don't do very well.I am very much against the wackos that subvert the movement for their own political gain, but I'll continue to adhere to science where it leads.

The only "whackos" subverting the movement are Republicans and other entrenched social conservatives like you.

So just to clarify: you really DO believe that mankind is adversely affecting global climate change?

Yes or no? If you answer with one of those two words, I swear I will leave you alone

For now.
 
2014-01-25 06:13:35 PM  

Hogmeister: That's how I feel.


That is fine, but that is not the case everywhere.  In some areas, the elk populations are so low as there has been significant reductions in opportunity to hunt in the way of slashed tags and in some circumstances, entire hunts cancelled.  In essence, there are still elk, but they are in trouble enough as to limit human hunting.

That not only hurts those that want to hunt, but the revenue of the states.  Idaho did a study that showed that wolves cost the state upwards of 24 million per year.  here is your source
 
2014-01-25 06:37:13 PM  

HeadLever: Hogmeister: That's how I feel.

That is fine, but that is not the case everywhere.  In some areas, the elk populations are so low as there has been significant reductions in opportunity to hunt in the way of slashed tags and in some circumstances, entire hunts cancelled.  In essence, there are still elk, but they are in trouble enough as to limit human hunting.

That not only hurts those that want to hunt, but the revenue of the states.  Idaho did a study that showed that wolves cost the state upwards of 24 million per year.  here is your source


Ya know, I'm not gonna bother to check out that link from the Idaho Dept. of Fish and Game, because I have no doubt it says basically what you say it says.  And since Idaho lawmakers have always been such a pantheon of reasoned, rational policy where wolf restoration and management is concerned (oh, shoot, just shot milk outta my nose @ that one!), I'll also just assume that they didn't just blame elk declines on wolves because it's easy and fits perfectly into the anti-wolf narrative they've been espousing since before reintroduction was even proposed.

I'll also assume that that study completely covered things like current and future revenue stream increases from ecotourism, how to make up for supposedly lost revenue supposedly from wolf predation, or things like that.

Orrrr, I could site this, http://www.forwolves.org/ralph/wolf-economic-impact.htm , which concludes a $35 million net, and a $70 million increase to the tri-state area when the "multiplier" effect of the money turning over to secondary businesses is factored in.  Now, to be fair, your study concerns Idaho, while mine looks at the Yellowstone region (tri-state), so it is apples to oranges.  But my point is, these economic impact studies can say almost whatever one wants, based on what constitutes the inputs, costs, etc...

But again, even if I were to concede that wolves = reduced trophy hunting opportunities, and even reduced revenues from hunting, hey, if that's the price for restoring wolves, I'm okay with that.  Yes, I realize that this could result in reduced funding for conservation efforts, but as you pointed out, these things do not exist in a vacuum, and lost revenue streams in one place (like hunting tags) means other opportunities elsewhere (folks are more willing to pay to see predator/prey interactions than they are elk standing around).

Your argument reminds me of so many anti-regulation, anti-environmentalists that argue costs prohibiatchange.  It's such an unimaginative argument that gives us, as humans, so little credit in our ability to adapt and be creative.
 
2014-01-25 06:46:13 PM  
Now, I've really gotta run.  This, I really hope, will be my last post on this thread.

Just wanted to say that I never imagined I'd change your mind.  I just imagined that there are folks reading this thread that maybe aren't so sure where they come down on this issue, and hoped to show why I believe what I believe, and why your beliefs are what they are.  And of course I'm hoping they'll side with me.  Because I'm right.

But please declare victory and assume my lack of further replies is evidence of such, and enjoy killing apex predators because "management".

Now go home and get your shine box.
 
2014-01-25 07:05:34 PM  

Hogmeister: Ya know, I'm not gonna bother to check out that link from the Idaho Dept. of Fish and Game, because I have no doubt it says basically what you say it says.  And since Idaho lawmakers have always been such a pantheon of reasoned, rational policy where wolf restoration and management is concerned (oh, shoot, just shot milk outta my nose @ that one!), I'll also just assume that they didn't just blame elk declines on wolves because it's easy and fits perfectly into the anti-wolf narrative they've been espousing since before reintroduction was even proposed.


Dude, if you want to put your fingers in your ears and yell lalalalala on my sources and yet espouse the virtue of your cherry picked studies, then I guess we are done here.

Orrrr, I could site this,  http://www.forwolves.org/ralph/wolf-economic-impact.htm , which concludes a $35 million net, and a $70 million increase to the tri-state area when the "multiplier" effect of the money turning over to secondary businesses is factored in.

So you don't listen to one 'biased' source and then post a biased source of your own.  Ok dude, you are off your rocker, especially since that study is not mutually exclusive with mine.

But again, even if I were to concede that wolves = reduced trophy hunting opportunities, and even reduced revenues from hunting, hey, if that's the price for restoring wolves, I'm okay with that.

You are not even understanding my point.  There is no indication that we cannot have just that so long as wolves continue to be managed.  The issue here is the treating them separate from standard wildlife management practices.

It's such an unimaginative argument that gives us, as humans, so little credit in our ability to adapt and be creative.

On the contrary, my argument recognize the success that sports hunting has produced.  The ability to accept change in wildlife management techniques seems to be resisted by your argument more than mine.
 
2014-01-25 07:47:12 PM  

HeadLever: Hogmeister: Ya know, I'm not gonna bother to check out that link from the Idaho Dept. of Fish and Game, because I have no doubt it says basically what you say it says.  And since Idaho lawmakers have always been such a pantheon of reasoned, rational policy where wolf restoration and management is concerned (oh, shoot, just shot milk outta my nose @ that one!), I'll also just assume that they didn't just blame elk declines on wolves because it's easy and fits perfectly into the anti-wolf narrative they've been espousing since before reintroduction was even proposed.

Dude, if you want to put your fingers in your ears and yell lalalalala on my sources and yet espouse the virtue of your cherry picked studies, then I guess we are done here.


Nope, see below.  I didn't ignore, just considered the source.  And later, once I did look at it, the date and basis (a 1994 study - dude, that TWENTY YEARS OLD!) and extrapolated from there.  That's some fine investigatory work ya did there!

Orrrr, I could site this,  http://www.forwolves.org/ralph/wolf-economic-impact.htm , which concludes a $35 million net, and a $70 million increase to the tri-state area when the "multiplier" effect of the money turning over to secondary businesses is factored in.

So you don't listen to one 'biased' source and then post a biased source of your own.  Ok dude, you are off your rocker, especially since that study is not mutually exclusive with mine.


Wait, according to you, they're ALL biased, so... could you kindly stick to the rules you set up yourself?

But again, even if I were to concede that wolves = reduced trophy hunting opportunities, and even reduced revenues from hunting, hey, if that's the price for restoring wolves, I'm okay with that.

You are not even understanding my point.


Perhaps that's because it's unintelligible and/or keeps changing.

There is no indication that we cannot have just that so long as wolves continue to be managed.  The issue here is the treating them separate from standard wildlife management practices.

So you're conceding that the reason to kill wolves is to preserve opportunities for trophy hunting, right?  Just want to be clear.  Wonder how that would fair if put up to a national referendum, or better yet, left up to conservation biologists, since trophy hunters (you keep on calling them "big game hunters" if it makes you feel better though) use a targeting criteria diametrically opposed to natural predation.

It's such an unimaginative argument that gives us, as humans, so little credit in our ability to adapt and be creative.

On the contrary, my argument recognize the success that sports hunting has produced.  The ability to accept change in wildlife management techniques seems to be resisted by your argument more than mine.


What change in wildlife management techniques am I resisting exactly?  Sports hunting is improving the lot of sport hunters, I accept that.  I just don't believe sport hunting should trump efforts to restore wolves to more of their historic range, or limit their numbers.  I'll admit, I put a higher priority on restoration efforts and letting predator/prey numbers find their own balance than I do on preserving trophy hunting opportunities or income for folks (like yourself I suspect) that cater to them.

Okay, I lied - I couldn't resist looking at your cited study on economic impact of wolves.  Once I did, I couldn't resist posting again.  Com'on dude, is this the best you can do?

"The report relies heavily on a 1994 environmental impact statement related to the introduction of wolves to Yellowstone National Park, and then extrapolates those numbers."  Wow, that sounds accurate... and current.

"The report released earlier this week was requested by Sen. Gary Schroeder, R-Moscow, who earlier this month sponsored a bill - approved 31-1 in the Senate - to give the state's wolves to the rest of the country."  Perfectly logical, perfectly reasonable.
 
2014-01-25 11:58:49 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: someone can be part of a particular subculture and can be easily identified by the commonalities they hold.


Agreed... but nobody agrees on what a hipster is.  Your definition-- namely that they're a bunch of sods who do stuff just to be seen doing it-- is a common one, and is closest to the way I use it.  But the one I hear almost as frequently as that is that they're people obsessed with a particular weird hobby or subculture beyond caring what anyone thinks of them.  Almost the complete opposite, and those are the two common ones.  In third place is "those kids in skinny jeans with thick glasses," which is about as tangent as it is possible to be to the axis the first two are on.

I would never argue that we can't use your definition as a way to reliably group people-- but people are using the word like six different ways in this thread alone.  That's the problem that drives me nuts with it.  Not that you can't use the word "hipster" to group people.  Just that unless you take the time to explain your definition like you just did, the term is utterly, totally worthless as a descriptive or grouping term because it means so many things to so many different people, and will end up including everybody if we take everybody's spin on it into account.
 
2014-01-26 12:47:54 AM  

raygundan: DarkSoulNoHope: someone can be part of a particular subculture and can be easily identified by the commonalities they hold.

Agreed... but nobody agrees on what a hipster is.  Your definition-- namely that they're a bunch of sods who do stuff just to be seen doing it-- is a common one, and is closest to the way I use it.  But the one I hear almost as frequently as that is that they're people obsessed with a particular weird hobby or subculture beyond caring what anyone thinks of them.  Almost the complete opposite, and those are the two common ones.  In third place is "those kids in skinny jeans with thick glasses," which is about as tangent as it is possible to be to the axis the first two are on.

I would never argue that we can't use your definition as a way to reliably group people-- but people are using the word like six different ways in this thread alone.  That's the problem that drives me nuts with it.  Not that you can't use the word "hipster" to group people.  Just that unless you take the time to explain your definition like you just did, the term is utterly, totally worthless as a descriptive or grouping term because it means so many things to so many different people, and will end up including everybody if we take everybody's spin on it into account.


The problem is is that you are attempting to diverse the term from it's actual meaning, almost to the point of defense of Hipsters themselves. Such as, those three qualities you claim are separate are all actually mixed together and I have not heard anyone myself who have misconstrued it, except for people who seem to defend Hipsters or just people who claim that "Hipster is not a real term." in one way or another. To your second point, "they are people obsessed with a particular weird hobby or subculture beyond what anyone caring what they think of them" is incorrect assumption. It is people who are obsessed with doing an obscure activity, either something old and outdated (such as writing on a typewriter, next to the guy with the vinyl record player, outside of the coffee shop!), stealing from another subculture (there are supposed "Hipster Goths" now, who have never listened to Goth music! ick), or (rarely) inventing some idea or activity themselves that they will pretend they don't care what anyone thinks of them doing it, but really they do it to for show and will care what others think of them doing it, especially when others see the Hipsters do it (if they find the thing is fun and easy to do) and then that same Hipster disowns the now popular activity.

I will not stop using the term "Hipster" to describe: *an annoying group of pretentious assholes who do obscure activities (from other subcultures, old and forgotten activities or ideas, and/or invented ideas) for the purpose of gaining an audience of others, until that activity has become popularized, which it's then disowned by those people who strangely enough dress and act in very similar ways (making it easy to point out who these asshole Hipster people are)* : simply because it has become a "popular term" and (to you, as you claim, I myself haven't heard it been misconstrued yet) supposedly misdirected towards people who don't fit the definition of "Hipster" as I understand it (and many others do).
 
2014-01-26 12:58:19 AM  

whidbey: HeadLever: Again, [citation needed].

Dude, just stop it. Three words into your "evidence" about the "real truth about wolves" and anyone can recognize it as debunked bullshiat.

At the very least, the honorable thing to do would be to concede that you're wrong about some of what you're stubbornly adhering to.

Then I'll add 'paying attention' to the list of things you don't do very well.I am very much against the wackos that subvert the movement for their own political gain, but I'll continue to adhere to science where it leads.

The only "whackos" subverting the movement are Republicans and other entrenched social conservatives like you.

So just to clarify: you really DO believe that mankind is adversely affecting global climate change?

Yes or no? If you answer with one of those two words, I swear I will leave you alone

For now.


*Crickets*

just like I expected. Funny how the one honest question being asked goes unanswered. It's just too big of a coincidence.
 
Displayed 298 of 298 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report