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(Independent)   "The machine uses an experimental pointing device called a 'mouse'," he complained. "Who out there even knows what a 'font' is?"   (independent.co.uk) divider line 25
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2014-01-23 11:45:14 PM  
John C. Dvorak: celebrating 30 years of being clueless.
 
2014-01-24 12:11:31 AM  
Well, screw you, buddy

/I font a dollar today and I damn well do know what it means
 
2014-01-24 12:48:45 AM  
Xerox...Palo Alto Research Community.

Did the Mouse and Graphical interface. Including such things as ICONs, folders, and click commands with the mouse..drag and drop etc..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARC_%28company%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star

From 1981:

www.aresluna.org

That's a 1981 screen shot.
Apple was just making Apple IIe that showed lowercase then.
The Mac wouldn't happen until 1984. The Lisa was just barely a contender--a copy really. In 1982. Which copied most of the Xerox 'icon' drag/drop file system---and mouse.
 
2014-01-24 01:15:24 AM  
Thanks optikeye, that screen shot is really something. Yeah, Apple did copy it somewhat, but you have to keep in mind that screens were black and white, rectangular copy regions were the only efficient scheme, and a filing system based on anything but sheets of paper in folders would have been too off the wall. I'm still waiting for someone to show me an effective GUI that isn't based on that scheme, unless you count browsers.
 
2014-01-24 01:18:28 AM  
I'm a certified Apple fanboi. I got  their logo tattooed on my arm 20 years ago. And even I will admit Steve Jobs was a thieving asshole.

This was all known back then.

Does winuxmitter think he found something new?
 
2014-01-24 01:30:05 AM  

dangelder: Thanks optikeye, that screen shot is really something. Yeah, Apple did copy it somewhat, but you have to keep in mind that screens were black and white, rectangular copy regions were the only efficient scheme, and a filing system based on anything but sheets of paper in folders would have been too off the wall. I'm still waiting for someone to show me an effective GUI that isn't based on that scheme, unless you count browsers.


Browsers aren't really a an effective GUI. For saving, creating and sharing files..etc.

I'm not sure what you mean....the idea of a 'computer' for desktop use, used a desktop metaphor. With folders for filing...and 'paper' for virtually tearing of sheet of paper that was magically a 'spreadsheet' "Paint" or "Word Processing". Then moving those papers into documents..and moving the documents into the 'printer icon' or disk icon or trash can icon.

That metaphor is ingrained. even in Hollywood style waving your arms around and moving files about in a 3D world...that idea of 'something' and 'put something here' still remains.

It's a perfectly good metaphor for a GUI  there's no reason (yet) to abandon it.
 
2014-01-24 01:32:34 AM  

dangelder: Thanks optikeye, that screen shot is really something. Yeah, Apple did copy it somewhat, but you have to keep in mind that screens were black and white, rectangular copy regions were the only efficient scheme, and a filing system based on anything but sheets of paper in folders would have been too off the wall. I'm still waiting for someone to show me an effective GUI that isn't based on that scheme, unless you count browsers.


So what you're saying is that there are some designs that are intuitive and natural products of their time, and that multiple people could arrive at a similar endproduct, given the product environment?
 
2014-01-24 01:38:34 AM  
Mac OS 10.4 was the best ever, narrowly beating out 8.6. 10.7+ is a bunch of bullshiat.
 
2014-01-24 02:01:55 AM  
Consider this. In order to develop for the iPhone, you need xCode which is only supported on Mac. So right off the bat you're going to want a Mac if you will be doing any development for iPhone. Then if you've got Android development needs, that's all done in Ellipse, a cross-platform Java tool, so that works on your Mac. And if you're doing Windows development, that can all be done using Parallels or Bootcamp on the same Mac hardware.

There is no reason to even consider buying a pure Windows machine anymore, much less some Linux machine. Mac really is an all-in-one machine that delivers on its promises.
 
2014-01-24 02:04:40 AM  

iamjustsyd: I'm a certified Apple fanboi. I got  their logo tattooed on my arm 20 years ago. And even I will admit Steve Jobs was a thieving asshole.

This was all known back then.

Does winuxmitter think he found something new?


They didn't steal it.

Everyone knows how Apple "stole" the GUI from Xerox PARC (they actually licensed it fair and square, and lucky for us, because it's unlikely Xerox would have taken it to the mass market if Apple hadn't) and then Microsoft "stole" it from Apple (though Microsoft licensed GUI tech from both Xerox and Apple).

From here: http://www.osnews.com/story/22325/Apple_vs_Microsoft_Top_20_Stolen_OS _ Ideas
 
2014-01-24 02:13:55 AM  
And to think all those good ideas developed to the point where home computing user interfaces all now are aimed at people who five years ago were using a leapfrog.
 
2014-01-24 02:33:14 AM  

Kinek: dangelder: Thanks optikeye, that screen shot is really something. Yeah, Apple did copy it somewhat, but you have to keep in mind that screens were black and white, rectangular copy regions were the only efficient scheme, and a filing system based on anything but sheets of paper in folders would have been too off the wall. I'm still waiting for someone to show me an effective GUI that isn't based on that scheme, unless you count browsers.

So what you're saying is that there are some designs that are intuitive and natural products of their time, and that multiple people could arrive at a similar endproduct, given the product environment?


Exactly. People tried a lot of things back then because they didn't know what was going to catch on. Cybery movies suggested that you'd be typing english to a semi coherent AI, or everything should look like an office you move around in 3D. There were idiotic ideas like Microsoft Bob and Clippy that just didn't catch on. I think that if you really were honest and focused on what computers actually did, like PARC and Apple were at that time, you'd come up with approximately the same thing, up to the degree of refinement of it.  Interestingly, OS X still looks very much like the original system, whereas MS is still trying to force the old one-place-for-everything-at-once Metro design on everyone again.
 
2014-01-24 03:16:32 AM  
I wish Apple had done a better job leasing its OS to clone builders. Would have been interesting to see how desktop computing would have developed is Microsoft had actual competition from the 90s onward.
 
2014-01-24 03:41:21 AM  
"The triumph of marketing over substance" was first applied, I believe, to Microsoft, but it seems very apt generally.
 
2014-01-24 04:01:18 AM  

skinink: I wish Apple had done a better job leasing its OS to clone builders. Would have been interesting to see how desktop computing would have developed is Microsoft had actual competition from the 90s onward.


But then Apple might have tarnished its bullshiat image!
 
2014-01-24 04:36:27 AM  
It was nice. Not a breakthrough in technology per se, but nice in that it made a 16 bit GUI based machine available at a much lower price and wider availability than before.

Mind you, only for about a year before far more powerful competitors could be had for half the price.

oldcomputers.net
www2.csdm.qc.ca
 
2014-01-24 04:46:28 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Consider this. In order to develop for the iPhone, you need xCode which is only supported on Mac. So right off the bat you're going to want a Mac if you will be doing any development for iPhone. Then if you've got Android development needs, that's all done in Ellipse, a cross-platform Java tool, so that works on your Mac. And if you're doing Windows development, that can all be done using Parallels or Bootcamp on the same Mac hardware.

There is no reason to even consider buying a pure Windows machine anymore, much less some Linux machine. Mac really is an all-in-one machine that delivers on its promises.



Saw this demoed at a seminar on 1/21. Unfortunately it's pricey for an individual, but peanuts for a company.
http://xamarin.com/
 
2014-01-24 05:15:14 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Consider this. In order to develop for the iPhone, you need xCode which is only supported on Mac. So right off the bat you're going to want a Mac if you will be doing any development for iPhone. Then if you've got Android development needs, that's all done in Ellipse, a cross-platform Java tool, so that works on your Mac. And if you're doing Windows development, that can all be done using Parallels or Bootcamp on the same Mac hardware.

There is no reason to even consider buying a pure Windows machine anymore, much less some Linux machine. Mac really is an all-in-one machine that delivers on its promises.


Just a few citations needed.
 
2014-01-24 05:23:49 AM  
optikeye: Xerox...Palo Alto Research Community.

Did the Mouse and Graphical interface. Including such things as ICONs, folders, and click commands with the mouse..drag and drop etc..


The thing about Apple is that they're the first to get it right.

/and then microsoft scrambles to catch up
 
2014-01-24 05:25:43 AM  

styckx: Just a few citations needed.


A mac can run OS X, Windows, and Linux. What more citation do you need?
 
2014-01-24 05:34:37 AM  

Uncle Tractor: styckx: Just a few citations needed.

A mac can run OS X, Windows, and Linux. What more citation do you need?


This stupid comment

There is no reason to even consider buying a pure Windows machine anymore
 
2014-01-24 05:45:31 AM  

lewismarktwo: skinink: I wish Apple had done a better job leasing its OS to clone builders. Would have been interesting to see how desktop computing would have developed is Microsoft had actual competition from the 90s onward.

But then Apple might have tarnished its bullshiat image!


Their image was in tatters at that time. The computers they were making were crap. The OS was crap. The computers made by the clone builders were even worse. Apple was spiraling into oblivion at the time.
 
2014-01-24 06:07:40 AM  

styckx: Uncle Tractor: styckx: Just a few citations needed.

A mac can run OS X, Windows, and Linux. What more citation do you need?

This stupid comment

There is no reason to even consider buying a pure Windows machine anymore


A PC can run windows and *nix. Not sure why I'd need any flavour of Mac OS on top of that. Heck, at the hardware level, a Mac is pretty well identical to a PC these days. Not like the days of yore with the 680x0 processors, or the middle years of the PowerPC.

Tell me what a Mac does that a PC doesn't? Pretty sure both platforms do pretty much the same thing, despite the fanbois on both sides. You want to buy a logo, you go right ahead.

/GEOS
//on my c64
/farking fanbois.
 
2014-01-24 06:10:35 AM  

skinink: I wish Apple had done a better job leasing its OS to clone builders. Would have been interesting to see how desktop computing would have developed is Microsoft had actual competition from the 90s onward.


Who the fark is microsoft?
 
2014-01-24 06:11:54 AM  
Who out there even knows what a 'font' is?

Anyone who had worked with a Selectric typewriter, or a daisy wheel printer.  The one I used in the school computer lab in 1984 had two wheels, providing good old Courier and a serif proportional font called Madeline.  Having swapped the wheel, you then had to tell the word processor which wheel you had mounted so it could break the lines correctly.
 
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