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(BBC)   I don't know if you've been paying attention, but a revolution is happening in Ukraine right now   ( divider line
    More: Interesting, Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, Kiev, speaker of parliament, Vitali Klitschko, key date, Leader of the Opposition  
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7467 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jan 2014 at 1:56 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2014-01-23 01:30:58 PM  
3 votes:

eurotrader: Putin will finish what Stalin did not.  Stalin killed millions in the Ukraine, Putin has already sent Russian special forces to start the killing with the Russian tanks close behind to teach the Ukraine what a real genocide looks like if they do not bow down to the new Czar Putin.

Yes. Putin is on the verge of killing millions of Ukranians. I'm glad we're starting off with some level-headed, rational commentary.
2014-01-23 03:42:39 PM  
2 votes:
I posted this in another thread.  My take on it:

These protests have gone through multiple phases and now it's about the core desire for democracy (sounds cheesy, I know)

First, they protested against the governments abandonment of potential trade and economic agreements with the EU, instead shifting back towards Russia and Putin's new "union" that he's formulating.  Government thugs then beat a number of protesters (Nov 30).  The people then shifted their focus to trying to hold those gov't officials that ordered the attacks accountable and brought to justice.  Forces again tried to disband the Majdan protests, albeit without serious violence in Dec (12 or 13th I think).  Protesters didn't retreat.  Protests grew to include Auto-Majdan, which involved whole caravans of cars/trucks driving to the lavish homes of the government ministers etc and protesting in front of their homes etc..  The government and courts then passed a number of laws against public gatherings, limiting the number of cars that can drive together, trying to limit what media outlets can report etc.  These laws were passed without debate or any resemblance of democratic process which has triggered the serious escalations over the last few days.  And, it is very serious now - people are getting killed by snipers and live ammo, protesters are missing, reports of Berkut (security forces, not army) randomly beating people in Kiev, people being "stolen" from hospitals and disappearing.  It's not security any more, it's pure sanctioned random violence by thugs.  There are numerous rumors floating around - Russian special forces are dressing as Berkut and involved with the violence, tanks are on the way from the eastern parts of Ukraine, all sorts of stuff that if half true will result in a lot more bloodshed.

There are 2 main problems IMO that makes it really difficult to see an end to this.  One - the opposition is not united and some are only in it for their own political benefits.  Klitshko has come out as one of the strong leaders and supporters of the protests but would he be able to unite the opposition politically and enact some positive changes?  I don't think so.  Second, the demands of the protesters are increasingly unrealistic and compromise is becoming more impossible as the violence increases.  Will the President simply resign?  Highly doubtful, especially considering he still has significant support in the east.  Disband the government?   Not going to happen.  So, how does this come to some conclusion?  I have no idea at this point.  What is really disappointing is the inaction of Europe (again).  Personal sanctions against the worst of the government crooks like Yanukovich would scare others into maybe forcing a peaceful end to the situation.  The USA revoked visas from some that they believe are responsible for earlier violence and this is a good first step but it has to be Europe that will make a difference.  The oligarchs and government ministers (thieves) all keep their money in Europe, their kids go to school there, they buy up property all over and unless there's any threat to their wealth there, they have no motivation to demand change or a peaceful end to the current violence.

For those looking for more up to date information, there are a number of Facebook groups that are tweeting and providing updates.  Look for "Euromaidan in English" and "Ukrainian Revolution 2013 - Live Updates".  Both are mostly in English.

Slava Ukraini

Oh, and please stop with the Seinfeld joke.  It's gotten really really old
2014-01-23 02:52:57 PM  
2 votes:
Fark clearly hasn't. shiat has been going on for nearly a week. We're already starting to get insider jokes from it.
2014-01-23 02:49:42 PM  
2 votes:

Putin can want to get the band back together all he wants.  he will NOT get Ukraine back.  They are too well armed and too big to just be sucked back up by mother russia and they are still a wee bit bitter about that whole Forced famine thing Stalin pulled

He can get the eastern half of it if civil war breaks out and the country fractures along ethnic lines, and that's all he really cares about. The Black Sea ports in the Crimea are populated by ethnic Russians, and they are also the majority down the eastern half of the country leading right on down to Sevastopol. That's what this whole thing has really been over. Ethnic Ukrainians want their country back and see joining with the EU as a way to do that. Ethnic Russians want to keep their spoils of war and their ties to "Rodina" and see cooperation with Moscow as the only way to do that.

As for the police saying they aren't carrying live ammo, I call BS. I've seen plenty of pictures on other sites where doctors are pulling jacketed "wadcutters" out of people. It may be target ammo, but pump enough of them into someone and they'll still kill them.
2014-01-23 02:20:11 PM  
2 votes:
snippets of what went on today, from a much better source than bbc(dnrtfa)  <---riot police storming and destroying a red cross facility e- jan-23-live-updates-335389.html

live video feeds:

cheers to the heroes of maidan!
2014-01-23 02:02:02 PM  
2 votes:
I'll take crib notes from anyone willing to give them.  What I know is that the Ukraine seems (at least half of it) to not want to be a Russian proxy state, the princess is still imprisoned and that Ukrainian and Estonian women are hot.
2014-01-23 01:13:25 PM  
2 votes:
2014-01-23 01:01:25 PM  
2 votes:
Putin will finish what Stalin did not.  Stalin killed millions in the Ukraine, Putin has already sent Russian special forces to start the killing with the Russian tanks close behind to teach the Ukraine what a real genocide looks like if they do not bow down to the new Czar Putin.
2014-01-23 04:22:51 PM  
1 vote:
It's not The Ukraine, it's just Ukraine. Just like it's not The China, The India, or The Germany or The France. It's just France, Germany, India, China, and Ukraine.
2014-01-23 04:14:59 PM  
1 vote:
I wish them good luck. It's unlikely Russia is ever going to be a good neighbor--the foreign policy of Russia has changed little since the days of Ivan the Terrible or even his predecessors. Czars and Commisars alike pursue the same expansionist goals with the same tools: flattery, bribery, corruption, ruthlessness.

To cast off their Alien Overlords, the Russian leaders behaved like estate managers, bailiffs and franklins--weakening their masters with their own property. Flattering and betraying, corrupting and back-stabbing.

In short, perfect Real Politik for the subjects of oriental despots who were often weak-in-the-head if handy with a scimitar and an ax. Adapt or die.

Putin is not weak-in-the-head--most of the czars couldn't afford to be. His KGB training was priceless as is his macho posturing and so forth. He's a politician born and bred.

Karl Marx was able to grasp the Russian imperial mind quite well. And he understood why the English were  like putty in the hands of Peter the Great. He would have understood Stalin's success with the English leftest intelligentsia of the 1930s and his ability to use people like Koch pèreif he had lived to see it. One of his minor works on the subject is quite revealing. As a revolutionary he was poorly qualified, but as a professor of history, he could have been one of the great German Herr Professors if only his atheism and outspokenness hadn't killed his career before it could start.
2014-01-23 04:07:24 PM  
1 vote:
Also acceptable:
2014-01-23 02:54:32 PM  
1 vote:
I hope Drudkh is okay

/I can't be the only one that likes Ukrainian folk metal
2014-01-23 02:21:51 PM  
1 vote:
On the upside some people will learn where a country they never heard of is on a map.
2014-01-23 02:14:35 PM  
1 vote:
you nailed it.
americans only care what their media tells them
and this isn't important enough
besides, he's a good guy, right?
2014-01-23 02:01:31 PM  
1 vote:
"I don't know if you've been paying attention, but a revolution is happening in Ukraine right now"

  I hope Prince rejoins them, that country hasn't been the same since his purple reign ended.
2014-01-23 01:50:56 PM  
1 vote:
Sorry, I'm all caught up in this Justin Bieber thing and don't have time for that right now.
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