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(Washington Post)   New study shows that the Millennials' whole "Oh, woe is us, we can't find jobs as easily as our parents" line isn't really worth a trophy. Maybe a certificate for trying? OK, OK, you can have a pin, too   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 72
    More: Obvious, Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, Gen Y  
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7541 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jan 2014 at 11:51 AM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-01-23 12:12:03 PM  
9 votes:

Gyro the Greek Sandwich Pirate: The authors looked at records for parents at a set age and for their children once they reached adulthood. For the most recent generation of children, many of whom have not yet started working, they measured college attendance, which correlates with higher earnings.

That might be a wee bit of a confound.


Came here to quote this exact passage.  Yes.  The same percentage of kids are still going to college.  However, because of inflated tuition costs they are leaving college with crushing loan debt that the Boomers/early Gen Xers didn't have. On top of that, they are making less money for more hours, assuming they can get work that exploits their education in the first place.

College attendance correlating to higher earnings than a HS diploma doesn't mitigate the fact that the middle class is shrinking, real earnings continue to drop for 85% of us, and debt has become much harder to escape from.  I know for a fact that things were easier economically for my cohort than for the Millenials because I was alive to see it.
2014-01-23 12:03:27 PM  
7 votes:
No subby, it doesn't say that at all, in fact it doesn't come close to addressing that subject.The study says economic mobility is the same as ever, just that, you know, being at the bottom sucks a whole lot more than it did 50 years ago. And it uses college attendance rates as a stand in for real data on jobs for the current generation, since so many of them haven't yet entered the workforce yet (read: can't find jobs).

Subby can't read, but hey, this is fark. Any resemblance the headline bears to the article is purely coincidental.
2014-01-23 12:31:24 PM  
5 votes:
How many different ways can we say "there are not enough jobs for everybody"? Is there another language we should be using?

I like conservatives. 99% of my immediate family is conservative.

I'll try one more goddamn time:
There are way more employable people than available jobs.

Which part of this is contoverersial?
2014-01-23 12:16:01 PM  
5 votes:

Ishidan: ikanreed: The Bunyip: I'd thought the problem wasn't in finding a job but that Millennials felt they should be working 30 hours a week and making six figures after graduating college?

Yeah, no one thinks that.

Yes, but it's so much easier to beat on a strawman than to realize that if the kids failed, it's cause the parents taught em wrong.


fark that.  There's not anything wrong with my generation in terms of the people themselves.  We've got some dangerously manipulative shiat going on in our economy and it has very little to do with individuals and a lot to do with policy.
2014-01-23 12:05:25 PM  
5 votes:
As long as the Job Creators have more profits, all is well.

They haven't quite thought about what to do when their customers are all broke for lack of respectable paying jobs, and as long as the government is backing them up with unemployment relief for the consumer class, it hasn't come up.

But it will.
2014-01-23 12:45:47 PM  
4 votes:
No one is allowed to biatch about the state of the generation that comes after them.

You and your peers are the ones who raised and shaped the generation after you and you and your peers are the ones who created the world that they have to interact with.

What kind of asshole digs a hole, pushes someone from behind into said hole, and then blames that person for both the hole and being in it?

And no, jobs aren't as easy to come by anymore. There are less jobs to be had in general thanks to the Gen X and Boomer run corporations shipping jobs overseas and forcing the existing workforce to do the job of 2-3 people for no extra pay.

I used to work with guys who were 50-60 years old who were almost literally pulled off the street and told, "Here's what we're going to teach you to do from now on". That's how so many of the people who have 30+ years got those years. Today, for the exact same position as those coworkers I needed a college education and prior experience. I did the exact same work as they did. Actually, I did more work than them because they liked to sit back and do nothing because they "earned it".

Fewer and fewer employers are willing to train people nowadays. They want someone who is already fully trained and experienced. A couple of years ago I was looking for a new job. I'm a tradesman. Instrumentation, specifically. It's sort of a specialized electrician. I was looking for instrument and electrical jobs. virtually all of them that I found wanted 5+ years experience as a minimum. Others wanted 5+ as well as someone who is able to do 2-3 different trades and only was offering $15/hr or less. It's insane. Companies want fully trained, multi-talented people and aren't willing to pay much to get them.

Companies want skeleton crews who are all masters at their field. There's not much room in the current corporate structure for new employees, fresh grads, and/or trainees.

Another job that I had before were run with that skeleton crew mentality. 4 of every 7 days we had 2 people on evenings and nights doing maintenance and service calls for a 3 level facility that had a 1.2 million square foot roof. That's a huge facility for 2 people a shift to handle. Years prior the same facility was run with about 8-12 people on the same shifts.

"Back in my day" doesn't count anymore, gramps. The world changed and you're the ones who changed it into what it is now.
2014-01-23 12:18:05 PM  
4 votes:

ikanreed: The Bunyip: I'd thought the problem wasn't in finding a job but that Millennials felt they should be working 30 hours a week and making six figures after graduating college?

Yeah, no one thinks that.


However, I'd say that a lot of my cohort (I'm in my late 30s) were told by their Boomer parents "just go to college, and you'll do fine", because that was true for their generation.  They just didn't care/didn't realize that the policy decisions they were making to make their own lives easier were sucking the future economic lifeblood out of the middle class.
2014-01-23 12:14:32 PM  
4 votes:
The problem with kids today is they think it's beneath them get a college degree or two and then work two part time jobs at places like Walmart and McDonald's. It makes them sad and depressed, they feel like their life is being wasted and they're just another replaceable cog in a giant machine pumping out garbage. Why would they feel like that?
2014-01-23 12:06:06 PM  
4 votes:
Economic mobility isn't the same thing as being unable to find a job as easily as their parents did.
2014-01-23 12:00:24 PM  
4 votes:
I'm sick and tired of my long-retired Yooper father-in-law ranting on and on about how the unemployed are less than human because they are lazy.

He was hired at a GM plant back in the late forties when he simply showed up one day and knocked on the door and asked for a job. Of course stayed there for 35 years before retiring. He refuses to hear that people need to be constantly searching for work because tomorrow you could be laid off and you need to be prepared.
2014-01-23 11:56:19 AM  
4 votes:
I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.
2014-01-23 12:31:06 PM  
3 votes:
I really love how Boomers are rubber stamping Millenials as lazy right out of the gate before most of them have even left college.  And the Gen Xers who are participating in this circle jerk, what's our excuse?  The Boomers said the exact same garbage about us when there was a mini-recession in the early to mid 90's and there weren't any jobs.

Remember?  No?  Of course not, now go vote all bootstrappy like.
2014-01-23 12:18:49 PM  
3 votes:

Superjew: I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".


What baffles me is that people blame the children for getting those awards and certificates. Like it was their idea. Do people really think the students are in charge of the classroom reward structure?
2014-01-23 12:09:30 PM  
3 votes:
FTA: "Because there's so much inequality, people born near the bottom tend to stay near the bottom, and that's much more consequential than it was 50 years ago. "

Subby, you's a trollin'.
2014-01-23 11:55:34 AM  
3 votes:
"Young people have no respect" Socrates (paraphrased)
2014-01-23 11:53:33 AM  
3 votes:
Hooray! Another "Millennials" thread.  These are always exciting.
2014-01-23 01:08:16 PM  
2 votes:

Bondith: The Bunyip: I'd thought the problem wasn't in finding a job but that Millennials felt they should be working 30 hours a week and making six figures after graduating college?

I've love to have a job that paid me to be here for 30 hours a week.  I might actually have some excess income to put into savings like a proper adult.


Plus they'd have to give you benefits!

Ohhhhhhh...

...those sneaky bastards.

/I mean, "good corporate citizens"
//all hail the new boss
2014-01-23 12:59:12 PM  
2 votes:

FunkOut: nijika: I really love how Boomers are rubber stamping Millenials as lazy right out of the gate before most of them have even left college.  And the Gen Xers who are participating in this circle jerk, what's our excuse?  The Boomers said the exact same garbage about us when there was a mini-recession in the early to mid 90's and there weren't any jobs.

Remember?  No?  Of course not, now go vote all bootstrappy like.

I remember that crap. "You kids are just lazy and listen to depressing music all day unlike our coolest ever rock and roll. Look at you with your black eyeliner and dour expressions, you'd all rather talk about AIDS and suicide than put a smile on and cheer up about the future. You can't even do being young right, unlike us in the 60s who were the coolest young people ever!"


But if we ever catch you smoking weed, we're going to slap you with a criminal record that will ensure that you'll be treated like a violent felon.
Still, relax...dude.
2014-01-23 12:49:53 PM  
2 votes:
From TFA:  "Mobility hasn't changed in a half-century in America, economists declare"

I think I see the problem here.

"But stocks are doing great, and the investor / owner class is reaping record profits and growth!  But raising wages and paying for health care would send all the multi-billionaires to the poorhouse overnight and then we'd all be owned by the Chinese Soshalists!  So keep slaving away, Citizen, my - I mean our prosperity depends on it!"

Yeah.  But keep blaming lazy kids.  They're  kids, of  course they're lazy and entitled!  No generation of newly-minted adults has been any better or worse overall!  Smokescreen for the 21st century robber barons, that's all.  They won't stop ruining this country for the rest of us until we either take their lives or their money.
2014-01-23 12:48:56 PM  
2 votes:
Study shows that the average clown can't interpret the results of a study properly.
2014-01-23 12:33:27 PM  
2 votes:

IamAwake: wildcardjack: Where in that life are you supposed to develop as a person?

weekends?  multi-tasking during the day?  Do people not socialize with coworkers in your universe?  I could go on...


But if you're multitasking and socializing during your workday, how can you also produce double the productivity for the same or less money than your parents did?

ek4t.com
2014-01-23 12:32:11 PM  
2 votes:

Nytfall: maachubo: Superjew: I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".

What baffles me is that people blame the children for getting those awards and certificates. Like it was their idea. Do people really think the students are in charge of the classroom reward structure?

It's not blaming the children for receiving them, it's blaming the children for expecting them and going ballistic/getting all butthurt if they don't.  This is also the parents' fault, but you take it out on the one exhibiting the behavior, not the one who taught it.


Why should the children expect any different? It's Pavlovian training.
2014-01-23 12:26:29 PM  
2 votes:

ikanreed: Z-clipped: I know for a fact that things were easier economically for my cohort than for the Millenials because I was alive to see it.

I just want to add things weren't hard for all of us millipedes, because it's a statistical problem, rather than a discrete one.


In my experience, if you had little to no trouble paying for college and finding a good job afterward, chances are you either:

1. Had wealthy parents who paid for your school and helped you get on your feet, or
2. Benefited from the brief bump in salary and demand that a CS afforded during the tech bubble.
2014-01-23 12:12:37 PM  
2 votes:

ikanreed: The Bunyip: I'd thought the problem wasn't in finding a job but that Millennials felt they should be working 30 hours a week and making six figures after graduating college?

Yeah, no one thinks that.


Yes, but it's so much easier to beat on a strawman than to realize that if the kids failed, it's cause the parents taught em wrong.
2014-01-23 12:11:40 PM  
2 votes:
Can't find a job? BOOTSTRAPS!

Still can't find a job?

LAZY.
2014-01-23 12:08:25 PM  
2 votes:
Really, the thread title shouldn't involve "Millennials", it should involve "Children raised by Baby Boomers". 

People of my generation were, by and large, told that they should "follow their dreams" and do whatever they wanted. That was reinforced by constantly being told they were special. No one bothered to tell them that there's jack shiat in the way of employment when you have a hospitality services/journalism/graphic design/etc. degree.

I wanted to be a history major at one point, which would have possibly lead to law or something like that. My dad, who paid for my undergrad (he had been saving since before I was born), sat me down at one point and told me that he had wanted to be a lawyer as well, but realized that it would be more beneficial to get a degree in a field where I could more or less immediately get a job afterwards. Law was not one of them, since I would have to go to law school after my undergrad.

I'm fortunate to have a dad who is willing to step up to the plate and be a dad; that is, be the guy who looks out for his kid and briefs him on the reality of the situation he's in. Not a lot of people I go to school with have that guy.
2014-01-23 12:03:36 PM  
2 votes:

The Bunyip: I'd thought the problem wasn't in finding a job but that Millennials felt they should be working 30 hours a week and making six figures after graduating college?


Yeah, no one thinks that.
2014-01-23 12:02:51 PM  
2 votes:
See, younger people went to college, let's ignore whether they got jobs afterwards, the exact charge they level.
2014-01-23 11:56:03 AM  
2 votes:
The authors looked at records for parents at a set age and for their children once they reached adulthood. For the most recent generation of children, many of whom have not yet started working, they measured college attendance, which correlates with higher earnings.

That might be a wee bit of a confound.
2014-01-23 04:13:42 PM  
1 votes:

Dr Dreidel: Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.

My dad got his PhD in chemistry in 1980, then spent a year looking for work. IIRC, he claimed he applied to 102 jobs, and got 104 rejection letters.

And then he worked for Exxon for 20 years - even offered to help clean up Hazelwood's Hazy Happenstance, but apparently they needed bookish chemists in NJ, not in AK.


My dad got his PhD in sociology in '69 had a tenured(not track; tenured position) before '72 (not sure exact timing but before I was born), my mom walked into a brokerage in 1980 asked for an informational interview and walked out with a job offer(undergrad degree in history), people that say it is not harder now are blow hards and have no idea what it is really like out there.

/Gen X
/Fark all of you
2014-01-23 04:08:24 PM  
1 votes:
2014-01-23 03:44:07 PM  
1 votes:

CtrlAltDestroy: No one is allowed to biatch about the state of the generation that comes after them.

You and your peers are the ones who raised and shaped the generation after you and you and your peers are the ones who created the world that they have to interact with.

What kind of asshole digs a hole, pushes someone from behind into said hole, and then blames that person for both the hole and being in it?

And no, jobs aren't as easy to come by anymore. There are less jobs to be had in general thanks to the Gen X and Boomer run corporations shipping jobs overseas and forcing the existing workforce to do the job of 2-3 people for no extra pay.

I used to work with guys who were 50-60 years old who were almost literally pulled off the street and told, "Here's what we're going to teach you to do from now on". That's how so many of the people who have 30+ years got those years. Today, for the exact same position as those coworkers I needed a college education and prior experience. I did the exact same work as they did. Actually, I did more work than them because they liked to sit back and do nothing because they "earned it".

Fewer and fewer employers are willing to train people nowadays. They want someone who is already fully trained and experienced. A couple of years ago I was looking for a new job. I'm a tradesman. Instrumentation, specifically. It's sort of a specialized electrician. I was looking for instrument and electrical jobs. virtually all of them that I found wanted 5+ years experience as a minimum. Others wanted 5+ as well as someone who is able to do 2-3 different trades and only was offering $15/hr or less. It's insane. Companies want fully trained, multi-talented people and aren't willing to pay much to get them.

Companies want skeleton crews who are all masters at their field. There's not much room in the current corporate structure for new employees, fresh grads, and/or trainees.

Another job that I had before were run with that skeleton crew mentality. 4 of ever ...


So much this.

I'm pretty sure the children who received participation medals weren't the ones who decided to hand them out.

Boomers instilled certain values and morals in their millennium children, and then the boomers have the audacity to complain about the values and morals the now grown children have.
2014-01-23 03:24:41 PM  
1 votes:

SpectroBoy: And mobility hasn't changed.


Actually, since they're completely fudging the mobility numbers on the most recent generation based solely on education level and specifically not looking at job data, this is a far-from-settled point.
2014-01-23 03:24:14 PM  
1 votes:

SpectroBoy: Slaxl: Economic mobility isn't the same thing as being unable to find a job as easily as their parents did.

Presumably if you can't find a job for a long period you experience downward mobility. And mobility hasn't changed.


The USA has considerably worse economic mobility than the "socialist" democracies of Western Europe.  Go figure. American rhetoric doesn't match the reality? No way.
2014-01-23 02:04:23 PM  
1 votes:

Z-clipped: IamAwake: wildcardjack: Where in that life are you supposed to develop as a person?

weekends?  multi-tasking during the day?  Do people not socialize with coworkers in your universe?  I could go on...

But if you're multitasking and socializing during your workday, how can you also produce double the productivity for the same or less money than your parents did?

[ek4t.com image 850x544]


I'm actually pretty qualified to answer that question.

The reason people are more productive now is they are given more efficient processes and workspaces.  The non-producing support personnel of today - "overhead" as it were - are far more prolific than they were prior to when that gap appeared.  How many IT jobs existed prior to 1974?  How many project management positions?  How many process improvement consultants?  Blah blah etc - the percentage of non-productive, non-executive, "overhead" people in the workplace has risen considerably.

Say you have a company that makes medical devices and sells them.  In 1950 you'd have engineers designing products, manufacturing making the products, and sales selling the products - all managed by executives, assisted by secretaries.  In 2014 you have QA testing the products, regulatory dealing with external verification agencies (FDA, JITC, etc), IT providing and supporting the computing infrastructure, so on, so forth.

All that chart does is compare the pay of the engineers and manufacturing, without taking into consideration that the vast majority of that gap is eaten up by all the new categories of jobs which now exist, and which didn't before.  That gap doesn't go 100% to a shareholder/owner's pocket, or some such.
2014-01-23 02:01:27 PM  
1 votes:
old people messed up the world and refuse to take any responsibility, how shocking.
2014-01-23 02:00:33 PM  
1 votes:
Millennials complaint- "Hey how come I did everything I was supposed to (ie, did well in school got scholarships, got a degree, got a professional degree, etc) and there are no jobs, I'm crushed by student debt and I'm going to be poor my whole life?"

Study- "Hey, they all went to college, so no problem here."

Millenial- *while facepalming* fark you all as hard as you can imagine.
2014-01-23 01:36:45 PM  
1 votes:

TomD9938: The thing is, had she been born a boy (or a Tom-Boy lesbian) with the same level of intelligence, she could have worked and apprenticed with me, ultimately taking over my little business and being set for life. As it happens, she couldn't care less about being any part of it.


What do you do that a heterosexual female couldn't do? Does it involve having sex with women for money?
2014-01-23 01:17:24 PM  
1 votes:

browntimmy: Superjew: I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".

Here's the thing, doesn't this actually reflect more that the previous generation was really shiatty at parenting?


And that's a bingo!

The Boomers pretty much suck as a generation, from kids who mostly got high to adults who sold out every ideal they supposedly had to parents who needed to be buddies with their kids to old people who refuse to retire and let the next generation get jobs.
2014-01-23 01:08:08 PM  
1 votes:

DrPainMD: Marine1: My dad, who paid for my undergrad (he had been saving since before I was born)...

Your dad did it wrong; my dad beat the crap out of me if I brought home an A-. I went to college on a scholarship.


Your dad did it wronger. We never touched our kids. Both got multiple scholarships.
2014-01-23 01:07:58 PM  
1 votes:
That's not what TFA says, dumbfark-mitter.

Now that I've got that out of the way...

That finding implies mobility is stuck at a low rate, at least compared to other wealthy nations: It is much harder for a poor child born in America to climb into the rare air of the country's highest earners than it is for a similar child in, for example, Canada or Denmark.

Wooo! America, fark yeah!

And finally in the words of George Carlin: "They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
2014-01-23 01:05:13 PM  
1 votes:

cptjeff: No subby, it doesn't say that at all, in fact it doesn't come close to addressing that subject.The study says economic mobility is the same as ever, just that, you know, being at the bottom sucks a whole lot more than it did 50 years ago. And it uses college attendance rates as a stand in for real data on jobs for the current generation, since so many of them haven't yet entered the workforce yet (read: can't find jobs).

Subby can't read, but hey, this is fark. Any resemblance the headline bears to the article is purely coincidental.


THANK YOU cptjeff. Subby, you ARE an idiot, goodbye.

/salute
2014-01-23 01:01:38 PM  
1 votes:

Gyro the Greek Sandwich Pirate: The authors looked at records for parents at a set age and for their children once they reached adulthood. For the most recent generation of children, many of whom have not yet started working, they measured college attendance, which correlates with higher earnings.

That might be a wee bit of a confound.


So. Much. This.

That's a hell of an assumption they made.
2014-01-23 01:01:26 PM  
1 votes:

Nytfall: maachubo: Superjew: I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".

What baffles me is that people blame the children for getting those awards and certificates. Like it was their idea. Do people really think the students are in charge of the classroom reward structure?

It's not blaming the children for receiving them, it's blaming the children for expecting them and going ballistic/getting all butthurt if they don't.  This is also the parents' fault, but you take it out on the one exhibiting the behavior, not the one who taught it.


"it's blaming the children for expecting them and going ballistic/getting all butthurt if they don't"

Yeah, that doesn't happen. The only people seriously analpained about participation awards in any way are the same generation that started giving them out
2014-01-23 12:58:06 PM  
1 votes:
It's useful to note that The Washington Post isn't The Washington Post so fabled in song and story. These days, it's a mouthpiece for Reaganomics, adventurist wars, and comfortable sinecures for people who don't rock the boat.

Youth unemployment when I was a kid was a trivial hurdle. Current practitioners of the ancien regime are trying to do to the public as a whole what Reagan did to the unions.

But scoffing is a very convincing form of fatalism.
2014-01-23 12:56:23 PM  
1 votes:
Let me tell you about kids these days.  The problems with this generation are endless.

They all sit around watching videos on Youtube.  In my day we watched intelligent television programs like "BJ and The Bear" and "TJ Hooker".

And don't even get me started on the music.  Now it's all libbo creeps like Kanye West and his wife Beyonce playing that disgusting rap music.  In my day we listed to soulful music written by True Patriots.  Songs like "Wang Dang Sweet Poontang" and "Love Gun".

And now they're all smoking that weed out in Commierado and Washingtonstan.  In my day we only used safe drugs prescribed by our doctors - quality pharmaceuticals like Quaaludes and Phenobarbitol.

I fear for where our country is going with the caliber of today's youth.  Surely, our republic will soon crumble.
2014-01-23 12:54:58 PM  
1 votes:

Marine1: llortcM_yllort: wildcardjack: I don't get how people can work full time... I mean, a third of your day at work, plus a commute on either end, and maybe an hour in the middle forced out of your life by an unbillable "lunch" hour. All said and done that's at least 12 hours, and then you're expected to sleep a solid 8, leaving you 4 hours to groom, cook, clean, exercise, and socialize. Where in that life are you supposed to develop as a person?

It's simple.  You can't choose a good option when there are only bad choices.

Developing as a person is overrated.

I say that in a slightly macabre, slightly serious way. We value an individual's happiness  way too much in our current society. If you suggest that someone might have to work in a field where they can't "achieve their dreams", you're considered a monster.

Your ultimate legacy as a human being will not be how happy and self-satisfied you were in your 20s, 30s, and early 40s. Really, it's what you did as a part of the ant colony in order to make it work. Most of the successful people I know of weren't really slowing down and enjoying life until their 50s.


What if a person just decides that is not the life I want for myself? I have always been non-traditional, like I don't believe in buying Christmas gifts. I would rather buy things when I need them and get things for my family regardless if its December 26th or not, why only be generous to family members then? I would rather live a less lavish lifestyle to enjoy my 20's, 30's, and 40's. Work a job that you enjoy even though it may provide less hours/pay and enjoy themselves more, as long as they can provide from themselves and their families. I personally don't want to start enjoying life when I can no longer do things that I can currently do physically. That is just my own personal opinion that bucks the societal norm of working 40+ hours a week. Maybe that's dumb, but everyone has to make a choice in life on how to live it
2014-01-23 12:53:13 PM  
1 votes:

cptjeff: No subby, it doesn't say that at all, in fact it doesn't come close to addressing that subject.The study says economic mobility is the same as ever, just that, you know, being at the bottom sucks a whole lot more than it did 50 years ago. And it uses college attendance rates as a stand in for real data on jobs for the current generation, since so many of them haven't yet entered the workforce yet (read: can't find jobs).

Subby can't read, but hey, this is fark. Any resemblance the headline bears to the article is purely coincidental.


I don't think it says what you have paraphrased either. I couldn't find any reference in the article to your contention that the lower income workers are less well off at present than they have been in past. I can only find reference to a larger disparity in wealth between upper and lower income levels which does not preclude that both the wealthy and poor are better off now then they were in the past.
2014-01-23 12:49:21 PM  
1 votes:
(The authors looked at records for parents at a set age and for their children once they reached adulthood. For the most recent generation of children, many of whom have not yet started working, they measured college attendance, which correlates with higher earnings).

Bahahaahahahahaha.  Are these idiots trolling?  The whole complaint of millenials is that they've obtained a higher education, and aren't getting anywhere because of it.  No shiat you're going to say they're successful if your measure of success is post-secondary school attendance!  That's their whole farking point.
2014-01-23 12:46:29 PM  
1 votes:

nijika: I really love how Boomers are rubber stamping Millenials as lazy right out of the gate before most of them have even left college.  And the Gen Xers who are participating in this circle jerk, what's our excuse?  The Boomers said the exact same garbage about us when there was a mini-recession in the early to mid 90's and there weren't any jobs.

Remember?  No?  Of course not, now go vote all bootstrappy like.


This is kind of petty of me, but I'm going to admit it anyway: (CSB follows)

When the economic downturn finally started hitting the younger Boomers, a lot of them, including some homemaker wives had to go back to work or get second jobs.  I worked in high-end restaurants for many years before recently going back and working on my physics degree, and was frequently in the position to hire front of house staff.  It gave me an enormous amount of pleasure to turn down Boomers applying for waitstaff jobs (because they thought it was easy and anyone could do it) on the basis that they lacked the 5-10 years experience and specialized food and beverage knowledge that the rest of my waiters had.
2014-01-23 12:43:52 PM  
1 votes:

FunkOut: The problem with kids today is they think it's beneath them get a college degree or two and then work two part time jobs at places like Walmart and McDonald's. It makes them sad and depressed, they feel like their life is being wasted and they're just another replaceable cog in a giant machine pumping out garbage. Why would they feel like that?


With an average of 40K in student loans it means they're stuck working 2 jobs for the next 20 years just to pay off that debt.

It used to be 'work 2 jobs to make ends meet for the family' now it's 'work 2 jobs because I got a degree in eastern European history because everyone said go to college after highschool'
2014-01-23 12:43:01 PM  
1 votes:

Bit'O'Gristle: He refuses to hear that people need to be constantly searching for work because tomorrow you could be laid off and you need to be prepared


This is the new reality.  Never stop looking.  You are expendable and will be replaced at the drop of a hat.  Save as much money as you can while you're working and plan to start your own business.  The corporate world is not what it was.
2014-01-23 12:38:34 PM  
1 votes:

Fano: Bit'O'Gristle: Day_Old_Dutchie: I'm sick and tired of my long-retired Yooper father-in-law ranting on and on about how the unemployed are less than human because they are lazy.

He was hired at a GM plant back in the late forties when he simply showed up one day and knocked on the door and asked for a job. Of course stayed there for 35 years before retiring. He refuses to hear that people need to be constantly searching for work because tomorrow you could be laid off and you need to be prepared.

/i totally agree.   A great deal of the production jobs have been taken over by robots, or, outsourced to other countries where they can get away with paying a shiat wage to the workers.  So yes, it IS more difficult to find a job now, compared to the 40's and fifties.  We have allowed cheap crap to come into our country, thus making it more difficult for american businesses to compete. So, they close, move, or pay you a crap wage.  Just to survive.  So nobody is whining, they are just telling the truth.

Yes, we all miss those soul deadening factory and farm jobs


Yes, yes we do.
2014-01-23 12:38:23 PM  
1 votes:

Fano: Bit'O'Gristle: Day_Old_Dutchie: I'm sick and tired of my long-retired Yooper father-in-law ranting on and on about how the unemployed are less than human because they are lazy.

He was hired at a GM plant back in the late forties when he simply showed up one day and knocked on the door and asked for a job. Of course stayed there for 35 years before retiring. He refuses to hear that people need to be constantly searching for work because tomorrow you could be laid off and you need to be prepared.

/i totally agree.   A great deal of the production jobs have been taken over by robots, or, outsourced to other countries where they can get away with paying a shiat wage to the workers.  So yes, it IS more difficult to find a job now, compared to the 40's and fifties.  We have allowed cheap crap to come into our country, thus making it more difficult for american businesses to compete. So, they close, move, or pay you a crap wage.  Just to survive.  So nobody is whining, they are just telling the truth.

Yes, we all miss those soul deadening factory and farm jobs


/better than working a shiat job for a shiat wage, or no job at all. Look at Detroit.
2014-01-23 12:36:05 PM  
1 votes:

nijika: I really love how Boomers are rubber stamping Millenials as lazy right out of the gate before most of them have even left college.  And the Gen Xers who are participating in this circle jerk, what's our excuse?  The Boomers said the exact same garbage about us when there was a mini-recession in the early to mid 90's and there weren't any jobs.

Remember?  No?  Of course not, now go vote all bootstrappy like.


I remember that crap. "You kids are just lazy and listen to depressing music all day unlike our coolest ever rock and roll. Look at you with your black eyeliner and dour expressions, you'd all rather talk about AIDS and suicide than put a smile on and cheer up about the future. You can't even do being young right, unlike us in the 60s who were the coolest young people ever!"
2014-01-23 12:34:20 PM  
1 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: b2theory: The generations behind me and infront of me suck. Except for my grandparents who were the greatest.

Just had an ultrasound of my soon to be kid. It looks lazy. It's probably it's generation.

And it'll blame you


And judging by the attitude shown above, it'll be right.
2014-01-23 12:32:30 PM  
1 votes:

Day_Old_Dutchie: I'm sick and tired of my long-retired Yooper father-in-law ranting on and on about how the unemployed are less than human because they are lazy.

He was hired at a GM plant back in the late forties when he simply showed up one day and knocked on the door and asked for a job. Of course stayed there for 35 years before retiring. He refuses to hear that people need to be constantly searching for work because tomorrow you could be laid off and you need to be prepared.


/i totally agree.   A great deal of the production jobs have been taken over by robots, or, outsourced to other countries where they can get away with paying a shiat wage to the workers.  So yes, it IS more difficult to find a job now, compared to the 40's and fifties.  We have allowed cheap crap to come into our country, thus making it more difficult for american businesses to compete. So, they close, move, or pay you a crap wage.  Just to survive.  So nobody is whining, they are just telling the truth.
2014-01-23 12:32:03 PM  
1 votes:

wildcardjack: I have a good one for this thread already written... Let me dig it out.

I don't get how people can work full time... I mean, a third of your day at work, plus a commute on either end, and maybe an hour in the middle forced out of your life by an unbillable "lunch" hour. All said and done that's at least 12 hours, and then you're expected to sleep a solid 8, leaving you 4 hours to groom, cook, clean, exercise, and socialize. Where in that life are you supposed to develop as a person?

/I only work about 16 hours a week.
//Helps if you aren't making your boss and your bosses boss and your bosses bosses boss rich.


Don't forget that these days its strictly frowned upon to socialize with coworkers. Youre supposed to go in, work like an emotionless machine, and go home to your social void of a life. And then we wonder why society seems disconnected and mental illnesses likeanxiety and depression are up. Its probably because people are pansies now all of a sudden.

/work 40 hours, but at staggered times
/healthy social life in and out of work
2014-01-23 12:30:50 PM  
1 votes:
One word, subby: bullshiat.

/And yes, that's one word even if auto correct thinks it isn't
2014-01-23 12:23:31 PM  
1 votes:
This new technology destroys young people's ability to remember facts and makes them lazy and ignorant.

The Ancient Greeks on writing, the bane of memory and a terrible threat to the income of epic poets like Homer.

Never bother to remember anything you can look up. --Albert Einstein
2014-01-23 12:19:26 PM  
1 votes:
I have a good one for this thread already written... Let me dig it out.

I don't get how people can work full time... I mean, a third of your day at work, plus a commute on either end, and maybe an hour in the middle forced out of your life by an unbillable "lunch" hour. All said and done that's at least 12 hours, and then you're expected to sleep a solid 8, leaving you 4 hours to groom, cook, clean, exercise, and socialize. Where in that life are you supposed to develop as a person?

/I only work about 16 hours a week.
//Helps if you aren't making your boss and your bosses boss and your bosses bosses boss rich.
2014-01-23 12:19:14 PM  
1 votes:

browntimmy: Superjew: I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".

Here's the thing, doesn't this actually reflect more that the previous generation was really shiatty at parenting?


Nope. Gotta blame the kids.
2014-01-23 12:16:58 PM  
1 votes:
I'm not saying that millenials aren't entitled or lazy or whatever you want to complain about, but the study that subby links has nothing to do with the headline.  I know that Fark's business model for the last few years has been to copy all of the things Drew biatched about in his book, but is it too much to ask that the headlines are at least somewhat related to the topic at hand?

/yes, yes, welcome to Fark
2014-01-23 12:07:47 PM  
1 votes:

Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.


My dad got his PhD in chemistry in 1980, then spent a year looking for work. IIRC, he claimed he applied to 102 jobs, and got 104 rejection letters.

And then he worked for Exxon for 20 years - even offered to help clean up Hazelwood's Hazy Happenstance, but apparently they needed bookish chemists in NJ, not in AK.
2014-01-23 12:07:36 PM  
1 votes:
That's not what the study says.
2014-01-23 12:07:15 PM  
1 votes:

Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.


www.almostseenon.com
2014-01-23 12:06:02 PM  
1 votes:

The Bunyip: I'd thought the problem wasn't in finding a job but that Millennials felt they should be working 30 hours a week and making six figures after graduating college?


I've love to have a job that paid me to be here for 30 hours a week.  I might actually have some excess income to put into savings like a proper adult.
2014-01-23 12:01:26 PM  
1 votes:

Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.


Have you looked into w?
2014-01-23 12:00:52 PM  
1 votes:
I'd thought the problem wasn't in finding a job but that Millennials felt they should be working 30 hours a week and making six figures after graduating college?
2014-01-23 11:57:51 AM  
1 votes:
I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".
2014-01-23 11:05:49 AM  
1 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: b2theory: The generations behind me and infront of me suck. Except for my grandparents who were the greatest.

Just had an ultrasound of my soon to be kid. It looks lazy. It's probably it's generation.

And it'll blame you


It already does.
2014-01-23 10:32:31 AM  
1 votes:
The generations behind me and infront of me suck. Except for my grandparents who were the greatest.

Just had an ultrasound of my soon to be kid. It looks lazy. It's probably it's generation.
 
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