If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Washington Post)   New study shows that the Millennials' whole "Oh, woe is us, we can't find jobs as easily as our parents" line isn't really worth a trophy. Maybe a certificate for trying? OK, OK, you can have a pin, too   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 202
    More: Obvious, Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, Gen Y  
•       •       •

7377 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jan 2014 at 11:51 AM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



202 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-01-23 10:32:31 AM  
The generations behind me and infront of me suck. Except for my grandparents who were the greatest.

Just had an ultrasound of my soon to be kid. It looks lazy. It's probably it's generation.
 
2014-01-23 10:34:53 AM  

b2theory: The generations behind me and infront of me suck. Except for my grandparents who were the greatest.

Just had an ultrasound of my soon to be kid. It looks lazy. It's probably it's generation.


And it'll blame you
 
2014-01-23 11:05:49 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: b2theory: The generations behind me and infront of me suck. Except for my grandparents who were the greatest.

Just had an ultrasound of my soon to be kid. It looks lazy. It's probably it's generation.

And it'll blame you


It already does.
 
2014-01-23 11:10:07 AM  
It's not even worth a pizza.  OK, maybe a pizza trophy.
 
2014-01-23 11:53:08 AM  
Yay! I got a ribbon.
 
2014-01-23 11:53:33 AM  
Hooray! Another "Millennials" thread.  These are always exciting.
 
2014-01-23 11:55:16 AM  
It's not that they can't find a job as  easily as their parents', it's that they can't find a job as  easy as their parents, which was likely earned through years of busting butt for 25 years.
 
2014-01-23 11:55:34 AM  
"Young people have no respect" Socrates (paraphrased)
 
2014-01-23 11:55:55 AM  

Anayalator: It's not that they can't find a job as  easily as their parents', it's that they can't find a job as  easy as their parents, which was likely earned through years of busting butt for 25 years.


I said 'years' too many times.
 
2014-01-23 11:56:03 AM  
The authors looked at records for parents at a set age and for their children once they reached adulthood. For the most recent generation of children, many of whom have not yet started working, they measured college attendance, which correlates with higher earnings.

That might be a wee bit of a confound.
 
2014-01-23 11:56:19 AM  
I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.
 
2014-01-23 11:56:43 AM  

Tannhauser: "Young people have no respect" Socrates (paraphrased)


www.masterpiecepumpkins.com
 
2014-01-23 11:56:53 AM  

b2theory: The generations behind me and infront of me suck. Except for my grandparents who were the greatest.

Just had an ultrasound of my soon to be kid. It looks lazy. It's probably it's generation.


Has it at least STARTED to look for a job?  Work isn't going to come looking if it is still curled up in the womb like that no good Johnson boy.
 
2014-01-23 11:57:51 AM  
I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".
 
2014-01-23 11:59:14 AM  

Gyro the Greek Sandwich Pirate: The authors looked at records for parents at a set age and for their children once they reached adulthood. For the most recent generation of children, many of whom have not yet started working, they measured college attendance, which correlates with higher earnings.

That might be a wee bit of a confound.


wtf
 
2014-01-23 12:00:24 PM  
I'm sick and tired of my long-retired Yooper father-in-law ranting on and on about how the unemployed are less than human because they are lazy.

He was hired at a GM plant back in the late forties when he simply showed up one day and knocked on the door and asked for a job. Of course stayed there for 35 years before retiring. He refuses to hear that people need to be constantly searching for work because tomorrow you could be laid off and you need to be prepared.
 
2014-01-23 12:00:40 PM  

Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.


I spent five years in chemistry PhD program and got shiatcanned with no degree, so I feel your pain and then some.  Sessional teaching isn't nearly as fulfilling as I thought it would be.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the throw acid in your face.


FTFChemists
 
2014-01-23 12:00:52 PM  
I'd thought the problem wasn't in finding a job but that Millennials felt they should be working 30 hours a week and making six figures after graduating college?
 
2014-01-23 12:01:02 PM  

b2theory: MaudlinMutantMollusk: b2theory: The generations behind me and infront of me suck. Except for my grandparents who were the greatest.

Just had an ultrasound of my soon to be kid. It looks lazy. It's probably it's generation.

And it'll blame you

It already does.


You see, my dad used to beat the hell out of me when I was a fetus and I'm better off for it. Taught me respect.

Wait a minute.....


Maybe he wasn't beating me.....

Maybe he just farked my mom a lot and it just SEEMED like he was beating me...

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
 
2014-01-23 12:01:26 PM  

Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.


Have you looked into w?
 
2014-01-23 12:01:42 PM  
What I learned from the graphic:

There's a "Deaf Smith" county in Texas. Who knew?
 
2014-01-23 12:02:51 PM  
See, younger people went to college, let's ignore whether they got jobs afterwards, the exact charge they level.
 
2014-01-23 12:03:27 PM  
No subby, it doesn't say that at all, in fact it doesn't come close to addressing that subject.The study says economic mobility is the same as ever, just that, you know, being at the bottom sucks a whole lot more than it did 50 years ago. And it uses college attendance rates as a stand in for real data on jobs for the current generation, since so many of them haven't yet entered the workforce yet (read: can't find jobs).

Subby can't read, but hey, this is fark. Any resemblance the headline bears to the article is purely coincidental.
 
2014-01-23 12:03:36 PM  

The Bunyip: I'd thought the problem wasn't in finding a job but that Millennials felt they should be working 30 hours a week and making six figures after graduating college?


Yeah, no one thinks that.
 
2014-01-23 12:04:45 PM  

Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.


Have you tried sticking your dick in a blender?
 
2014-01-23 12:05:25 PM  
As long as the Job Creators have more profits, all is well.

They haven't quite thought about what to do when their customers are all broke for lack of respectable paying jobs, and as long as the government is backing them up with unemployment relief for the consumer class, it hasn't come up.

But it will.
 
2014-01-23 12:06:01 PM  

Day_Old_Dutchie: I'm sick and tired of my long-retired Yooper father-in-law ranting on and on about how the unemployed are less than human because they are lazy.

He was hired at a GM plant back in the late forties when he simply showed up one day and knocked on the door and asked for a job. Of course stayed there for 35 years before retiring. He refuses to hear that people need to be constantly searching for work because tomorrow you could be laid off and you need to be prepared.


Not if you get a sweet, sweet government union job, then they never fire you. Have you people who are out of work tried the Post Office?
 
2014-01-23 12:06:02 PM  

The Bunyip: I'd thought the problem wasn't in finding a job but that Millennials felt they should be working 30 hours a week and making six figures after graduating college?


I've love to have a job that paid me to be here for 30 hours a week.  I might actually have some excess income to put into savings like a proper adult.
 
2014-01-23 12:06:06 PM  
Economic mobility isn't the same thing as being unable to find a job as easily as their parents did.
 
2014-01-23 12:06:33 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-23 12:06:43 PM  

Ghastly: b2theory: MaudlinMutantMollusk: b2theory: The generations behind me and infront of me suck. Except for my grandparents who were the greatest.

Just had an ultrasound of my soon to be kid. It looks lazy. It's probably it's generation.

And it'll blame you

It already does.

You see, my dad used to beat the hell out of me when I was a fetus and I'm better off for it. Taught me respect.

Wait a minute.....


Maybe he wasn't beating me.....

Maybe he just farked my mom a lot and it just SEEMED like he was beating me...

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!


It does explain why you like a cock shoved in your face.
 
2014-01-23 12:06:51 PM  

joaquin closet: What I learned from the graphic:

There's a "Deaf Smith" county in Texas. Who knew?


Even stranger, he was a real person (tracker/scout for Sam Houston).
 
2014-01-23 12:06:54 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.

Have you tried sticking your dick in a blender?


Instructions unclear, blender stuck in dick.
 
2014-01-23 12:07:15 PM  

Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.


www.almostseenon.com
 
2014-01-23 12:07:36 PM  
That's not what the study says.
 
2014-01-23 12:07:47 PM  

Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.


My dad got his PhD in chemistry in 1980, then spent a year looking for work. IIRC, he claimed he applied to 102 jobs, and got 104 rejection letters.

And then he worked for Exxon for 20 years - even offered to help clean up Hazelwood's Hazy Happenstance, but apparently they needed bookish chemists in NJ, not in AK.
 
2014-01-23 12:08:04 PM  

VvonderJesus: Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.

Have you looked into w?


No, everybody knows that what you gotta do is v.
 
2014-01-23 12:08:25 PM  
Really, the thread title shouldn't involve "Millennials", it should involve "Children raised by Baby Boomers". 

People of my generation were, by and large, told that they should "follow their dreams" and do whatever they wanted. That was reinforced by constantly being told they were special. No one bothered to tell them that there's jack shiat in the way of employment when you have a hospitality services/journalism/graphic design/etc. degree.

I wanted to be a history major at one point, which would have possibly lead to law or something like that. My dad, who paid for my undergrad (he had been saving since before I was born), sat me down at one point and told me that he had wanted to be a lawyer as well, but realized that it would be more beneficial to get a degree in a field where I could more or less immediately get a job afterwards. Law was not one of them, since I would have to go to law school after my undergrad.

I'm fortunate to have a dad who is willing to step up to the plate and be a dad; that is, be the guy who looks out for his kid and briefs him on the reality of the situation he's in. Not a lot of people I go to school with have that guy.
 
2014-01-23 12:09:30 PM  
FTA: "Because there's so much inequality, people born near the bottom tend to stay near the bottom, and that's much more consequential than it was 50 years ago. "

Subby, you's a trollin'.
 
2014-01-23 12:10:51 PM  

Anayalator: Anayalator: It's not that they can't find a job as  easily as their parents', it's that they can't find a job as  easy as their parents, which was likely earned through years of busting butt for 25 years.

I said 'years' too many times.


Your post makes absolutely no sense regardless of the number of occurrences of "years" . I tried removing the first "years", then the second, then both. I also tried adding "years" in various places. Nothing works.
 
2014-01-23 12:11:40 PM  
Can't find a job? BOOTSTRAPS!

Still can't find a job?

LAZY.
 
2014-01-23 12:11:56 PM  

Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.


Is it safe to suggest "z"?
blog.wordnik.com
 
2014-01-23 12:11:59 PM  

Odd Bird: Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.

[www.almostseenon.com image 250x250]


That suggestion has been made on several occasions, and there are days I'm tempted.
 
2014-01-23 12:12:03 PM  

Gyro the Greek Sandwich Pirate: The authors looked at records for parents at a set age and for their children once they reached adulthood. For the most recent generation of children, many of whom have not yet started working, they measured college attendance, which correlates with higher earnings.

That might be a wee bit of a confound.


Came here to quote this exact passage.  Yes.  The same percentage of kids are still going to college.  However, because of inflated tuition costs they are leaving college with crushing loan debt that the Boomers/early Gen Xers didn't have. On top of that, they are making less money for more hours, assuming they can get work that exploits their education in the first place.

College attendance correlating to higher earnings than a HS diploma doesn't mitigate the fact that the middle class is shrinking, real earnings continue to drop for 85% of us, and debt has become much harder to escape from.  I know for a fact that things were easier economically for my cohort than for the Millenials because I was alive to see it.
 
2014-01-23 12:12:37 PM  

ikanreed: The Bunyip: I'd thought the problem wasn't in finding a job but that Millennials felt they should be working 30 hours a week and making six figures after graduating college?

Yeah, no one thinks that.


Yes, but it's so much easier to beat on a strawman than to realize that if the kids failed, it's cause the parents taught em wrong.
 
2014-01-23 12:13:36 PM  

Z-clipped: I know for a fact that things were easier economically for my cohort than for the Millenials because I was alive to see it.


I just want to add things weren't hard for all of us millipedes, because it's a statistical problem, rather than a discrete one.
 
2014-01-23 12:13:51 PM  

Bondith: Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

I spent five years in chemistry PhD program and got shiatcanned with no degree, so I feel your pain and then some.  Sessional teaching isn't nearly as fulfilling as I thought it would be.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the throw acid in your face.

FTFChemists


Also FTF"Friends"  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25867695 (warning nasty images of what throwing acid in your face results in)
 
2014-01-23 12:14:08 PM  

netgamer7k: Can't find a job? BOOTSTRAPS!

Still can't find a job?

LAZY.


See?  You guys do catch on after a while.
 
2014-01-23 12:14:32 PM  
The problem with kids today is they think it's beneath them get a college degree or two and then work two part time jobs at places like Walmart and McDonald's. It makes them sad and depressed, they feel like their life is being wasted and they're just another replaceable cog in a giant machine pumping out garbage. Why would they feel like that?
 
2014-01-23 12:16:01 PM  

Ishidan: ikanreed: The Bunyip: I'd thought the problem wasn't in finding a job but that Millennials felt they should be working 30 hours a week and making six figures after graduating college?

Yeah, no one thinks that.

Yes, but it's so much easier to beat on a strawman than to realize that if the kids failed, it's cause the parents taught em wrong.


fark that.  There's not anything wrong with my generation in terms of the people themselves.  We've got some dangerously manipulative shiat going on in our economy and it has very little to do with individuals and a lot to do with policy.
 
2014-01-23 12:16:25 PM  

Reverend J: Odd Bird: Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.

[www.almostseenon.com image 250x250]

That suggestion has been made on several occasions, and there are days I'm tempted.


I hear you, man.  I've been through a few runs of unemployment myself.
 
2014-01-23 12:16:39 PM  
Participation ribbons are LIES! My nepwhew always gives his to the worst kid on the team so that kid can have 2.
 
2014-01-23 12:16:58 PM  
I'm not saying that millenials aren't entitled or lazy or whatever you want to complain about, but the study that subby links has nothing to do with the headline.  I know that Fark's business model for the last few years has been to copy all of the things Drew biatched about in his book, but is it too much to ask that the headlines are at least somewhat related to the topic at hand?

/yes, yes, welcome to Fark
 
2014-01-23 12:17:33 PM  

Superjew: I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".


Here's the thing, doesn't this actually reflect more that the previous generation was really shiatty at parenting?
 
2014-01-23 12:18:05 PM  

ikanreed: The Bunyip: I'd thought the problem wasn't in finding a job but that Millennials felt they should be working 30 hours a week and making six figures after graduating college?

Yeah, no one thinks that.


However, I'd say that a lot of my cohort (I'm in my late 30s) were told by their Boomer parents "just go to college, and you'll do fine", because that was true for their generation.  They just didn't care/didn't realize that the policy decisions they were making to make their own lives easier were sucking the future economic lifeblood out of the middle class.
 
2014-01-23 12:18:49 PM  

Superjew: I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".


What baffles me is that people blame the children for getting those awards and certificates. Like it was their idea. Do people really think the students are in charge of the classroom reward structure?
 
2014-01-23 12:19:14 PM  

browntimmy: Superjew: I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".

Here's the thing, doesn't this actually reflect more that the previous generation was really shiatty at parenting?


Nope. Gotta blame the kids.
 
2014-01-23 12:19:26 PM  
I have a good one for this thread already written... Let me dig it out.

I don't get how people can work full time... I mean, a third of your day at work, plus a commute on either end, and maybe an hour in the middle forced out of your life by an unbillable "lunch" hour. All said and done that's at least 12 hours, and then you're expected to sleep a solid 8, leaving you 4 hours to groom, cook, clean, exercise, and socialize. Where in that life are you supposed to develop as a person?

/I only work about 16 hours a week.
//Helps if you aren't making your boss and your bosses boss and your bosses bosses boss rich.
 
2014-01-23 12:21:19 PM  

ZeroPly: Anayalator: Anayalator: It's not that they can't find a job as  easily as their parents', it's that they can't find a job as  easy as their parents, which was likely earned through years of busting butt for 25 years.

I said 'years' too many times.

Your post makes absolutely no sense regardless of the number of occurrences of "years" . I tried removing the first "years", then the second, then both. I also tried adding "years" in various places. Nothing works.


option 1: "which was likely earned through busting butt for 25 years"

option 2: "which was likely earned through 25 years of busting butt"

Removing a word sometimes means removing other words too.
 
2014-01-23 12:21:19 PM  

wildcardjack: I don't get how people can work full time... I mean, a third of your day at work, plus a commute on either end, and maybe an hour in the middle forced out of your life by an unbillable "lunch" hour. All said and done that's at least 12 hours, and then you're expected to sleep a solid 8, leaving you 4 hours to groom, cook, clean, exercise, and socialize. Where in that life are you supposed to develop as a person?


It's simple.  You can't choose a good option when there are only bad choices.
 
2014-01-23 12:23:31 PM  
This new technology destroys young people's ability to remember facts and makes them lazy and ignorant.

The Ancient Greeks on writing, the bane of memory and a terrible threat to the income of epic poets like Homer.

Never bother to remember anything you can look up. --Albert Einstein
 
2014-01-23 12:25:30 PM  
I blame unions, child labor laws, OSHA regulation, and the affirmative action
 
2014-01-23 12:26:29 PM  

ikanreed: Z-clipped: I know for a fact that things were easier economically for my cohort than for the Millenials because I was alive to see it.

I just want to add things weren't hard for all of us millipedes, because it's a statistical problem, rather than a discrete one.


In my experience, if you had little to no trouble paying for college and finding a good job afterward, chances are you either:

1. Had wealthy parents who paid for your school and helped you get on your feet, or
2. Benefited from the brief bump in salary and demand that a CS afforded during the tech bubble.
 
2014-01-23 12:27:21 PM  

wildcardjack: Where in that life are you supposed to develop as a person?


weekends?  multi-tasking during the day?  Do people not socialize with coworkers in your universe?  I could go on...
 
2014-01-23 12:27:36 PM  
static.fjcdn.com
 
2014-01-23 12:27:40 PM  

brantgoose: This new technology destroys young people's ability to remember facts and makes them lazy and ignorant.

The Ancient Greeks on writing, the bane of memory and a terrible threat to the income of epic poets like Homer.

Never bother to remember anything you can look up. --Albert Einstein


Read the dictionary, throw it in the garbage, and use only the words that you can remember.  --I think I am paraphrasing EB White.
 
2014-01-23 12:28:59 PM  

maachubo: Superjew: I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".

What baffles me is that people blame the children for getting those awards and certificates. Like it was their idea. Do people really think the students are in charge of the classroom reward structure?


It's not blaming the children for receiving them, it's blaming the children for expecting them and going ballistic/getting all butthurt if they don't.  This is also the parents' fault, but you take it out on the one exhibiting the behavior, not the one who taught it.
 
2014-01-23 12:30:39 PM  

llortcM_yllort: wildcardjack: I don't get how people can work full time... I mean, a third of your day at work, plus a commute on either end, and maybe an hour in the middle forced out of your life by an unbillable "lunch" hour. All said and done that's at least 12 hours, and then you're expected to sleep a solid 8, leaving you 4 hours to groom, cook, clean, exercise, and socialize. Where in that life are you supposed to develop as a person?

It's simple.  You can't choose a good option when there are only bad choices.


Developing as a person is overrated.

I say that in a slightly macabre, slightly serious way. We value an individual's happiness  way too much in our current society. If you suggest that someone might have to work in a field where they can't "achieve their dreams", you're considered a monster.

Your ultimate legacy as a human being will not be how happy and self-satisfied you were in your 20s, 30s, and early 40s. Really, it's what you did as a part of the ant colony in order to make it work. Most of the successful people I know of weren't really slowing down and enjoying life until their 50s.
 
2014-01-23 12:30:50 PM  
One word, subby: bullshiat.

/And yes, that's one word even if auto correct thinks it isn't
 
2014-01-23 12:31:06 PM  
I really love how Boomers are rubber stamping Millenials as lazy right out of the gate before most of them have even left college.  And the Gen Xers who are participating in this circle jerk, what's our excuse?  The Boomers said the exact same garbage about us when there was a mini-recession in the early to mid 90's and there weren't any jobs.

Remember?  No?  Of course not, now go vote all bootstrappy like.
 
2014-01-23 12:31:24 PM  
How many different ways can we say "there are not enough jobs for everybody"? Is there another language we should be using?

I like conservatives. 99% of my immediate family is conservative.

I'll try one more goddamn time:
There are way more employable people than available jobs.

Which part of this is contoverersial?
 
2014-01-23 12:31:28 PM  

b2theory: The generations behind me and infront of me suck. Except for my grandparents who were the greatest.

Just had an ultrasound of my soon to be kid. It looks lazy. It's probably it's generation.


Perhaps it will be able to learn proper grammar.
 
2014-01-23 12:31:40 PM  
Sissies
 
2014-01-23 12:32:03 PM  

wildcardjack: I have a good one for this thread already written... Let me dig it out.

I don't get how people can work full time... I mean, a third of your day at work, plus a commute on either end, and maybe an hour in the middle forced out of your life by an unbillable "lunch" hour. All said and done that's at least 12 hours, and then you're expected to sleep a solid 8, leaving you 4 hours to groom, cook, clean, exercise, and socialize. Where in that life are you supposed to develop as a person?

/I only work about 16 hours a week.
//Helps if you aren't making your boss and your bosses boss and your bosses bosses boss rich.


Don't forget that these days its strictly frowned upon to socialize with coworkers. Youre supposed to go in, work like an emotionless machine, and go home to your social void of a life. And then we wonder why society seems disconnected and mental illnesses likeanxiety and depression are up. Its probably because people are pansies now all of a sudden.

/work 40 hours, but at staggered times
/healthy social life in and out of work
 
2014-01-23 12:32:11 PM  

Nytfall: maachubo: Superjew: I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".

What baffles me is that people blame the children for getting those awards and certificates. Like it was their idea. Do people really think the students are in charge of the classroom reward structure?

It's not blaming the children for receiving them, it's blaming the children for expecting them and going ballistic/getting all butthurt if they don't.  This is also the parents' fault, but you take it out on the one exhibiting the behavior, not the one who taught it.


Why should the children expect any different? It's Pavlovian training.
 
2014-01-23 12:32:30 PM  

Day_Old_Dutchie: I'm sick and tired of my long-retired Yooper father-in-law ranting on and on about how the unemployed are less than human because they are lazy.

He was hired at a GM plant back in the late forties when he simply showed up one day and knocked on the door and asked for a job. Of course stayed there for 35 years before retiring. He refuses to hear that people need to be constantly searching for work because tomorrow you could be laid off and you need to be prepared.


/i totally agree.   A great deal of the production jobs have been taken over by robots, or, outsourced to other countries where they can get away with paying a shiat wage to the workers.  So yes, it IS more difficult to find a job now, compared to the 40's and fifties.  We have allowed cheap crap to come into our country, thus making it more difficult for american businesses to compete. So, they close, move, or pay you a crap wage.  Just to survive.  So nobody is whining, they are just telling the truth.
 
2014-01-23 12:33:27 PM  

IamAwake: wildcardjack: Where in that life are you supposed to develop as a person?

weekends?  multi-tasking during the day?  Do people not socialize with coworkers in your universe?  I could go on...


But if you're multitasking and socializing during your workday, how can you also produce double the productivity for the same or less money than your parents did?

ek4t.com
 
2014-01-23 12:34:20 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: b2theory: The generations behind me and infront of me suck. Except for my grandparents who were the greatest.

Just had an ultrasound of my soon to be kid. It looks lazy. It's probably it's generation.

And it'll blame you


And judging by the attitude shown above, it'll be right.
 
2014-01-23 12:35:25 PM  

nijika: I really love how Boomers are rubber stamping Millenials as lazy right out of the gate before most of them have even left college.  And the Gen Xers who are participating in this circle jerk, what's our excuse?  The Boomers said the exact same garbage about us when there was a mini-recession in the early to mid 90's and there weren't any jobs.

Remember?  No?  Of course not, now go vote all bootstrappy like.


Millennial are generally defined as born between 1980-95. The youngest are college age right now. Most Millennials who will have gone to college have already graduated or are currently in school.

Just so we're clear on the group we're talking about.
 
2014-01-23 12:35:51 PM  
The late Baby Boomers were in the shadow of their elders, who had filled all the jobs by the time the late Boomers started getting out of school. This resulted in the invention of Generation X by market researchers and Douglas Copeland. But Generation X had no money and proved a bust for marketeers and advertisers, so they took the name away and gave it to the next lot of dupes and suckers.

So having trouble finding work is nothing new for the young, inexperienced, untalented, untrained or lazy.

The Boomers were slow to push their young out of the nest and then the Boomerang Generation happened. The Boomers took care of their parents and their children at the same time and for much longer than any previous generation. They deserve some gratitude. Their children's children are now being born in smaller numbers, so when they are gone there should be more opportunities (if fewer jobs that don't require a massive educational investment) for this small generation.

In the meantime, the world is pretty much the same regardless of the Great Recession. The President is a late Boomer (1961) and he's doing just fine after getting off to a slow start somewhere in Kenya, Indonesia, Hawaii, Chicago or possibly a planet in the Pleiade Constellation.

None of my four nieces have thought of getting me a Christmas present despite lavish gifts since their birth. Only my annoying nephew shows any signs of being grateful enough to his grandparents to give them gifts and he gives me gifts (don't tell him he inherited anything from his Mother, but he buys the same sort of stuff, having inherited the knack of gift-giving).

But they will learn. They will learn from their children and the old Mother's Curse: may you have children who are just like you.

Generational warfare is stupid and used by idiotic journalists and the powers that be to confuse and exploit you.

As your revolutionary forefathers were wont to say, if we don't hang together we will assuredly hang separately.
 
2014-01-23 12:36:05 PM  

nijika: I really love how Boomers are rubber stamping Millenials as lazy right out of the gate before most of them have even left college.  And the Gen Xers who are participating in this circle jerk, what's our excuse?  The Boomers said the exact same garbage about us when there was a mini-recession in the early to mid 90's and there weren't any jobs.

Remember?  No?  Of course not, now go vote all bootstrappy like.


I remember that crap. "You kids are just lazy and listen to depressing music all day unlike our coolest ever rock and roll. Look at you with your black eyeliner and dour expressions, you'd all rather talk about AIDS and suicide than put a smile on and cheer up about the future. You can't even do being young right, unlike us in the 60s who were the coolest young people ever!"
 
2014-01-23 12:37:39 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Day_Old_Dutchie: I'm sick and tired of my long-retired Yooper father-in-law ranting on and on about how the unemployed are less than human because they are lazy.

He was hired at a GM plant back in the late forties when he simply showed up one day and knocked on the door and asked for a job. Of course stayed there for 35 years before retiring. He refuses to hear that people need to be constantly searching for work because tomorrow you could be laid off and you need to be prepared.

/i totally agree.   A great deal of the production jobs have been taken over by robots, or, outsourced to other countries where they can get away with paying a shiat wage to the workers.  So yes, it IS more difficult to find a job now, compared to the 40's and fifties.  We have allowed cheap crap to come into our country, thus making it more difficult for american businesses to compete. So, they close, move, or pay you a crap wage.  Just to survive.  So nobody is whining, they are just telling the truth.


Yes, we all miss those soul deadening factory and farm jobs
 
2014-01-23 12:38:23 PM  

Fano: Bit'O'Gristle: Day_Old_Dutchie: I'm sick and tired of my long-retired Yooper father-in-law ranting on and on about how the unemployed are less than human because they are lazy.

He was hired at a GM plant back in the late forties when he simply showed up one day and knocked on the door and asked for a job. Of course stayed there for 35 years before retiring. He refuses to hear that people need to be constantly searching for work because tomorrow you could be laid off and you need to be prepared.

/i totally agree.   A great deal of the production jobs have been taken over by robots, or, outsourced to other countries where they can get away with paying a shiat wage to the workers.  So yes, it IS more difficult to find a job now, compared to the 40's and fifties.  We have allowed cheap crap to come into our country, thus making it more difficult for american businesses to compete. So, they close, move, or pay you a crap wage.  Just to survive.  So nobody is whining, they are just telling the truth.

Yes, we all miss those soul deadening factory and farm jobs


/better than working a shiat job for a shiat wage, or no job at all. Look at Detroit.
 
2014-01-23 12:38:34 PM  

Fano: Bit'O'Gristle: Day_Old_Dutchie: I'm sick and tired of my long-retired Yooper father-in-law ranting on and on about how the unemployed are less than human because they are lazy.

He was hired at a GM plant back in the late forties when he simply showed up one day and knocked on the door and asked for a job. Of course stayed there for 35 years before retiring. He refuses to hear that people need to be constantly searching for work because tomorrow you could be laid off and you need to be prepared.

/i totally agree.   A great deal of the production jobs have been taken over by robots, or, outsourced to other countries where they can get away with paying a shiat wage to the workers.  So yes, it IS more difficult to find a job now, compared to the 40's and fifties.  We have allowed cheap crap to come into our country, thus making it more difficult for american businesses to compete. So, they close, move, or pay you a crap wage.  Just to survive.  So nobody is whining, they are just telling the truth.

Yes, we all miss those soul deadening factory and farm jobs


Yes, yes we do.
 
2014-01-23 12:38:43 PM  

PainInTheASP: b2theory: The generations behind me and infront of me suck. Except for my grandparents who were the greatest.

Just had an ultrasound of my soon to be kid. It looks lazy. It's probably it's generation.

Has it at least STARTED to look for a job?  Work isn't going to come looking if it is still curled up in the womb like that no good Johnson boy.


Johnson is the one who put him in that womb in the first place.
 
2014-01-23 12:39:21 PM  
Let's just ignore the fact that millions of older people, who used to get secure jobs that would last for decades, don't have that going for them anymore. Now they're also out there there competing in the job market in their 40s and 50s for the same crappy jobs that the young people are. No, this is all about the kids. Someone think of the children.

No, I didn't "take your job and destroy the economy." Put a sock in it, babies.

Reverend J: That suggestion has been made on several occasions, and there are days I'm tempted.


I was thinking of becoming a pickpocket, myself. It's a dying art. No one would ever suspect a thing. People lose their shiat all the time.
 
2014-01-23 12:40:05 PM  

cptjeff: nijika: I really love how Boomers are rubber stamping Millenials as lazy right out of the gate before most of them have even left college.  And the Gen Xers who are participating in this circle jerk, what's our excuse?  The Boomers said the exact same garbage about us when there was a mini-recession in the early to mid 90's and there weren't any jobs.

Remember?  No?  Of course not, now go vote all bootstrappy like.

Millennial are generally defined as born between 1980-95. The youngest are college age right now. Most Millennials who will have gone to college have already graduated or are currently in school.

Just so we're clear on the group we're talking about.


What exactly do you mean when you say "generally defined?"  I would classify the majority of the 80s as being Gen X.  Then there's supposed to be this Gen Y, but I've never really been clear about whether that's just another name for the Millenials or not.  Honestly, though, culture changes so rapidly these days that the idea of discrete generations has kind of lost meaning.
 
2014-01-23 12:40:36 PM  
Who farking cares.  Welcome to the real world.  We were the first ones to encounter declining incomes.

Generation X.
 
2014-01-23 12:40:53 PM  

brantgoose: The Boomers were slow to push their young out of the nest and then the Boomerang Generation happened. The Boomers took care of their parents and their children at the same time and for much longer than any previous generation. They deserve some gratitude. Their children's children are now being born in smaller numbers, so when they are gone there should be more opportunities (if fewer jobs that don't require a massive educational investment) for this small generation.


I fail to see why the boomers should get gratitude for taking care of their families considering all of the other awful things they have done to this country. Chris Rock had something to say about this... something about seeking credit for things you're supposed to do.
 
2014-01-23 12:42:23 PM  
I heard there are tons of great, super easy jobs available with Redbox
 
2014-01-23 12:42:37 PM  

Z-clipped: ikanreed: Z-clipped: I know for a fact that things were easier economically for my cohort than for the Millenials because I was alive to see it.

I just want to add things weren't hard for all of us millipedes, because it's a statistical problem, rather than a discrete one.

In my experience, if you had little to no trouble paying for college and finding a good job afterward, chances are you either:

1. Had wealthy parents who paid for your school and helped you get on your feet, or
2. Benefited from the brief bump in salary and demand that a CS afforded during the tech bubble.


Yes, and yes.  Also, if you're white, your family pretty much has to hide some income or assets when you fill out a FAFSA, 'cause there is no way your "expected contribution" is going to be anywhere near reality unless you are a minority.  I have no guilt whatsoever since I still had a near-bankrupting debt load for 5 years after school, and that was with half-ride scholarships to boot.

It's all evaporated in the last 5 years, though.  Even with job security (higher ed; not a lot of soulless corporate downsizing going on when you literally hold the keys to the digital world of your school), I'm looking at 3-4 more years before I'm literally forced to either sell the house or find a better paying job, absent a significant salary adjustment.  Prices keep rising, COLA nowhere in sight, and don't even ask about merit...
 
2014-01-23 12:43:01 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: He refuses to hear that people need to be constantly searching for work because tomorrow you could be laid off and you need to be prepared


This is the new reality.  Never stop looking.  You are expendable and will be replaced at the drop of a hat.  Save as much money as you can while you're working and plan to start your own business.  The corporate world is not what it was.
 
2014-01-23 12:43:12 PM  
Okay subby here a slice of my Job serching life.

Today I found out about a furniture sales job. They are taking applications but not hiring anyone. How is that economic growth? How is that helping me move out on my own? How is this going to help me become an independent adult and getting a house? How subby? How?

It will only change when you make these people who take applications actually hire someone and not do the equivalent of trolling for souls.
 
2014-01-23 12:43:52 PM  

FunkOut: The problem with kids today is they think it's beneath them get a college degree or two and then work two part time jobs at places like Walmart and McDonald's. It makes them sad and depressed, they feel like their life is being wasted and they're just another replaceable cog in a giant machine pumping out garbage. Why would they feel like that?


With an average of 40K in student loans it means they're stuck working 2 jobs for the next 20 years just to pay off that debt.

It used to be 'work 2 jobs to make ends meet for the family' now it's 'work 2 jobs because I got a degree in eastern European history because everyone said go to college after highschool'
 
2014-01-23 12:44:06 PM  
Yeah, but you gotta admire their resourcefulness.img.fark.net
 
2014-01-23 12:44:28 PM  

Meez: I heard there are tons of great, super easy jobs available with Redboxtube


FTFY
 
2014-01-23 12:45:05 PM  

alizeran: Yeah, but you gotta admire their resourcefulness.[img.fark.net image 500x667]


Not a millennial.
 
2014-01-23 12:45:43 PM  

b2theory: The generations behind me and infront of me suck. Except for my grandparents who were the greatest.

Just had an ultrasound of my soon to be kid. It looks lazy. It's probably it's generation.


Just laying around, leeching off the riches of that hard working placenta! And you just wait, when it's born it's gonna feel entitled to those boobies.....heck, you had to probably put in a couple of dinner dates before you even got to touch em!
 
2014-01-23 12:45:47 PM  
No one is allowed to biatch about the state of the generation that comes after them.

You and your peers are the ones who raised and shaped the generation after you and you and your peers are the ones who created the world that they have to interact with.

What kind of asshole digs a hole, pushes someone from behind into said hole, and then blames that person for both the hole and being in it?

And no, jobs aren't as easy to come by anymore. There are less jobs to be had in general thanks to the Gen X and Boomer run corporations shipping jobs overseas and forcing the existing workforce to do the job of 2-3 people for no extra pay.

I used to work with guys who were 50-60 years old who were almost literally pulled off the street and told, "Here's what we're going to teach you to do from now on". That's how so many of the people who have 30+ years got those years. Today, for the exact same position as those coworkers I needed a college education and prior experience. I did the exact same work as they did. Actually, I did more work than them because they liked to sit back and do nothing because they "earned it".

Fewer and fewer employers are willing to train people nowadays. They want someone who is already fully trained and experienced. A couple of years ago I was looking for a new job. I'm a tradesman. Instrumentation, specifically. It's sort of a specialized electrician. I was looking for instrument and electrical jobs. virtually all of them that I found wanted 5+ years experience as a minimum. Others wanted 5+ as well as someone who is able to do 2-3 different trades and only was offering $15/hr or less. It's insane. Companies want fully trained, multi-talented people and aren't willing to pay much to get them.

Companies want skeleton crews who are all masters at their field. There's not much room in the current corporate structure for new employees, fresh grads, and/or trainees.

Another job that I had before were run with that skeleton crew mentality. 4 of every 7 days we had 2 people on evenings and nights doing maintenance and service calls for a 3 level facility that had a 1.2 million square foot roof. That's a huge facility for 2 people a shift to handle. Years prior the same facility was run with about 8-12 people on the same shifts.

"Back in my day" doesn't count anymore, gramps. The world changed and you're the ones who changed it into what it is now.
 
2014-01-23 12:46:29 PM  

nijika: I really love how Boomers are rubber stamping Millenials as lazy right out of the gate before most of them have even left college.  And the Gen Xers who are participating in this circle jerk, what's our excuse?  The Boomers said the exact same garbage about us when there was a mini-recession in the early to mid 90's and there weren't any jobs.

Remember?  No?  Of course not, now go vote all bootstrappy like.


This is kind of petty of me, but I'm going to admit it anyway: (CSB follows)

When the economic downturn finally started hitting the younger Boomers, a lot of them, including some homemaker wives had to go back to work or get second jobs.  I worked in high-end restaurants for many years before recently going back and working on my physics degree, and was frequently in the position to hire front of house staff.  It gave me an enormous amount of pleasure to turn down Boomers applying for waitstaff jobs (because they thought it was easy and anyone could do it) on the basis that they lacked the 5-10 years experience and specialized food and beverage knowledge that the rest of my waiters had.
 
2014-01-23 12:48:56 PM  
Study shows that the average clown can't interpret the results of a study properly.
 
2014-01-23 12:49:21 PM  
(The authors looked at records for parents at a set age and for their children once they reached adulthood. For the most recent generation of children, many of whom have not yet started working, they measured college attendance, which correlates with higher earnings).

Bahahaahahahahaha.  Are these idiots trolling?  The whole complaint of millenials is that they've obtained a higher education, and aren't getting anywhere because of it.  No shiat you're going to say they're successful if your measure of success is post-secondary school attendance!  That's their whole farking point.
 
2014-01-23 12:49:53 PM  
From TFA:  "Mobility hasn't changed in a half-century in America, economists declare"

I think I see the problem here.

"But stocks are doing great, and the investor / owner class is reaping record profits and growth!  But raising wages and paying for health care would send all the multi-billionaires to the poorhouse overnight and then we'd all be owned by the Chinese Soshalists!  So keep slaving away, Citizen, my - I mean our prosperity depends on it!"

Yeah.  But keep blaming lazy kids.  They're  kids, of  course they're lazy and entitled!  No generation of newly-minted adults has been any better or worse overall!  Smokescreen for the 21st century robber barons, that's all.  They won't stop ruining this country for the rest of us until we either take their lives or their money.
 
2014-01-23 12:49:54 PM  

Day_Old_Dutchie: I'm sick and tired of my long-retired Yooper father-in-law ranting on and on about how the unemployed are less than human because they are lazy.

He was hired at a GM plant back in the late forties when he simply showed up one day and knocked on the door and asked for a job. Of course stayed there for 35 years before retiring. He refuses to hear that people need to be constantly searching for work because tomorrow you could be laid off and you need to be prepared.


Did he build his own Caddilac n his garage using parts stolen from he factory over the course of his career? Because that would make a cool story if set to music.
 
2014-01-23 12:52:39 PM  

Fano: Yes, we all miss those soul deadening factory and farm jobs


You know what?  With the recent local/organic/small farm movement gaining steam, I actually know a LOT of people in their early 20s who have chosen to start or work on small farms in urban/exurban areas, because of exactly how soul-deadening that kind of work isn't.
 
2014-01-23 12:53:04 PM  

maachubo: Superjew: I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".

What baffles me is that people blame the children for getting those awards and certificates. Like it was their idea. Do people really think the students are in charge of the classroom reward structure?


Like I said, easier to make a strawman than point the blame back at their own generation.
 
2014-01-23 12:53:13 PM  

cptjeff: No subby, it doesn't say that at all, in fact it doesn't come close to addressing that subject.The study says economic mobility is the same as ever, just that, you know, being at the bottom sucks a whole lot more than it did 50 years ago. And it uses college attendance rates as a stand in for real data on jobs for the current generation, since so many of them haven't yet entered the workforce yet (read: can't find jobs).

Subby can't read, but hey, this is fark. Any resemblance the headline bears to the article is purely coincidental.


I don't think it says what you have paraphrased either. I couldn't find any reference in the article to your contention that the lower income workers are less well off at present than they have been in past. I can only find reference to a larger disparity in wealth between upper and lower income levels which does not preclude that both the wealthy and poor are better off now then they were in the past.
 
2014-01-23 12:54:58 PM  

Marine1: llortcM_yllort: wildcardjack: I don't get how people can work full time... I mean, a third of your day at work, plus a commute on either end, and maybe an hour in the middle forced out of your life by an unbillable "lunch" hour. All said and done that's at least 12 hours, and then you're expected to sleep a solid 8, leaving you 4 hours to groom, cook, clean, exercise, and socialize. Where in that life are you supposed to develop as a person?

It's simple.  You can't choose a good option when there are only bad choices.

Developing as a person is overrated.

I say that in a slightly macabre, slightly serious way. We value an individual's happiness  way too much in our current society. If you suggest that someone might have to work in a field where they can't "achieve their dreams", you're considered a monster.

Your ultimate legacy as a human being will not be how happy and self-satisfied you were in your 20s, 30s, and early 40s. Really, it's what you did as a part of the ant colony in order to make it work. Most of the successful people I know of weren't really slowing down and enjoying life until their 50s.


What if a person just decides that is not the life I want for myself? I have always been non-traditional, like I don't believe in buying Christmas gifts. I would rather buy things when I need them and get things for my family regardless if its December 26th or not, why only be generous to family members then? I would rather live a less lavish lifestyle to enjoy my 20's, 30's, and 40's. Work a job that you enjoy even though it may provide less hours/pay and enjoy themselves more, as long as they can provide from themselves and their families. I personally don't want to start enjoying life when I can no longer do things that I can currently do physically. That is just my own personal opinion that bucks the societal norm of working 40+ hours a week. Maybe that's dumb, but everyone has to make a choice in life on how to live it
 
2014-01-23 12:55:04 PM  
Article:
It's false.
It's true.
Here's why it's true but we're saying it's false.
 
2014-01-23 12:55:44 PM  

Z-clipped: nijika: I really love how Boomers are rubber stamping Millenials as lazy right out of the gate before most of them have even left college.  And the Gen Xers who are participating in this circle jerk, what's our excuse?  The Boomers said the exact same garbage about us when there was a mini-recession in the early to mid 90's and there weren't any jobs.

Remember?  No?  Of course not, now go vote all bootstrappy like.

This is kind of petty of me, but I'm going to admit it anyway: (CSB follows)

When the economic downturn finally started hitting the younger Boomers, a lot of them, including some homemaker wives had to go back to work or get second jobs.  I worked in high-end restaurants for many years before recently going back and working on my physics degree, and was frequently in the position to hire front of house staff.  It gave me an enormous amount of pleasure to turn down Boomers applying for waitstaff jobs (because they thought it was easy and anyone could do it) on the basis that they lacked the 5-10 years experience and specialized food and beverage knowledge that the rest of my waiters had.


Yep. That sounds like a CSB, allright.
 
2014-01-23 12:56:23 PM  
Let me tell you about kids these days.  The problems with this generation are endless.

They all sit around watching videos on Youtube.  In my day we watched intelligent television programs like "BJ and The Bear" and "TJ Hooker".

And don't even get me started on the music.  Now it's all libbo creeps like Kanye West and his wife Beyonce playing that disgusting rap music.  In my day we listed to soulful music written by True Patriots.  Songs like "Wang Dang Sweet Poontang" and "Love Gun".

And now they're all smoking that weed out in Commierado and Washingtonstan.  In my day we only used safe drugs prescribed by our doctors - quality pharmaceuticals like Quaaludes and Phenobarbitol.

I fear for where our country is going with the caliber of today's youth.  Surely, our republic will soon crumble.
 
2014-01-23 12:58:06 PM  
It's useful to note that The Washington Post isn't The Washington Post so fabled in song and story. These days, it's a mouthpiece for Reaganomics, adventurist wars, and comfortable sinecures for people who don't rock the boat.

Youth unemployment when I was a kid was a trivial hurdle. Current practitioners of the ancien regime are trying to do to the public as a whole what Reagan did to the unions.

But scoffing is a very convincing form of fatalism.
 
2014-01-23 12:58:07 PM  
It's true that before you even go into college you should have a plan for your career. If you major in communications you better be thinking about a career like pro athlete or supermodel, because otherwise there'll be enough resumes like yours to line every birdcage in the world.
 
2014-01-23 12:58:12 PM  

Arkanaut: Hooray! Another "Millennials" thread.  These are always exciting.


you're farked

/thread

p.s. sorry if this post hurts your feelings
 
2014-01-23 12:58:19 PM  

Nytfall: maachubo: Superjew: I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".

What baffles me is that people blame the children for getting those awards and certificates. Like it was their idea. Do people really think the students are in charge of the classroom reward structure?

It's not blaming the children for receiving them, it's blaming the children for expecting them and going ballistic/getting all butthurt if they don't.  This is also the parents' fault, but you take it out on the one exhibiting the behavior, not the one who taught it.


So... blame the victim.

Nope. Not buying it. Try again.
 
2014-01-23 12:59:12 PM  

FunkOut: nijika: I really love how Boomers are rubber stamping Millenials as lazy right out of the gate before most of them have even left college.  And the Gen Xers who are participating in this circle jerk, what's our excuse?  The Boomers said the exact same garbage about us when there was a mini-recession in the early to mid 90's and there weren't any jobs.

Remember?  No?  Of course not, now go vote all bootstrappy like.

I remember that crap. "You kids are just lazy and listen to depressing music all day unlike our coolest ever rock and roll. Look at you with your black eyeliner and dour expressions, you'd all rather talk about AIDS and suicide than put a smile on and cheer up about the future. You can't even do being young right, unlike us in the 60s who were the coolest young people ever!"


But if we ever catch you smoking weed, we're going to slap you with a criminal record that will ensure that you'll be treated like a violent felon.
Still, relax...dude.
 
2014-01-23 12:59:37 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: No one is allowed to biatch about the state of the generation that comes after them.

You and your peers are the ones who raised and shaped the generation after you and you and your peers are the ones who created the world that they have to interact with.


There's no such thing as a generation that works in concert. Unless your name is Cain.
 
2014-01-23 01:00:11 PM  

I drunk what: Arkanaut: Hooray! Another "Millennials" thread.  These are always exciting.

you're farked

/thread

p.s. sorry if this post hurts your feelings


i18.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-23 01:00:55 PM  

ikanreed: alizeran: Yeah, but you gotta admire their resourcefulness.[img.fark.net image 500x667]

Not a millennial.


could be
 
2014-01-23 01:01:26 PM  

Nytfall: maachubo: Superjew: I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".

What baffles me is that people blame the children for getting those awards and certificates. Like it was their idea. Do people really think the students are in charge of the classroom reward structure?

It's not blaming the children for receiving them, it's blaming the children for expecting them and going ballistic/getting all butthurt if they don't.  This is also the parents' fault, but you take it out on the one exhibiting the behavior, not the one who taught it.


"it's blaming the children for expecting them and going ballistic/getting all butthurt if they don't"

Yeah, that doesn't happen. The only people seriously analpained about participation awards in any way are the same generation that started giving them out
 
2014-01-23 01:01:38 PM  

Gyro the Greek Sandwich Pirate: The authors looked at records for parents at a set age and for their children once they reached adulthood. For the most recent generation of children, many of whom have not yet started working, they measured college attendance, which correlates with higher earnings.

That might be a wee bit of a confound.


So. Much. This.

That's a hell of an assumption they made.
 
2014-01-23 01:04:15 PM  

Marine1: My dad, who paid for my undergrad (he had been saving since before I was born)...


Your dad did it wrong; my dad beat the crap out of me if I brought home an A-. I went to college on a scholarship.
 
2014-01-23 01:04:28 PM  

Meez: I heard there are tons of great, super easy jobs available with Redbox


"Red'Tube'", mate.
/it's porn
 
2014-01-23 01:04:35 PM  

jso2897: Yep. That sounds like a CSB, allright.


When you work in an industry that's as looked down upon as restaurant, sometimes odd things warm the cockles of your cold, bitter heart.
 
2014-01-23 01:05:13 PM  

cptjeff: No subby, it doesn't say that at all, in fact it doesn't come close to addressing that subject.The study says economic mobility is the same as ever, just that, you know, being at the bottom sucks a whole lot more than it did 50 years ago. And it uses college attendance rates as a stand in for real data on jobs for the current generation, since so many of them haven't yet entered the workforce yet (read: can't find jobs).

Subby can't read, but hey, this is fark. Any resemblance the headline bears to the article is purely coincidental.


THANK YOU cptjeff. Subby, you ARE an idiot, goodbye.

/salute
 
2014-01-23 01:06:23 PM  
The gf's little sister just got out of college. She's 25, has a masters in criminal psych, has never had a job (not even part time retail) and is applying for high level positions with federal agencies. So far no luck.
 
2014-01-23 01:07:13 PM  

wildcardjack: I have a good one for this thread already written... Let me dig it out.

I don't get how people can work full time... I mean, a third of your day at work, plus a commute on either end, and maybe an hour in the middle forced out of your life by an unbillable "lunch" hour. All said and done that's at least 12 hours, and then you're expected to sleep a solid 8, leaving you 4 hours to groom, cook, clean, exercise, and socialize. Where in that life are you supposed to develop as a person?

/I only work about 16 hours a week.
//Helps if you aren't making your boss and your bosses boss and your bosses bosses boss rich.


I agree, that's why I try to do as little actual work as possible. However, I still have the commute.
 
2014-01-23 01:07:48 PM  
,ikanreed: alizeran: Yeah, but you gotta admire their resourcefulness.[img.fark.net image 500x667]

Not a millennial.


Alright, comic book guy. You got me. I guess we can't all enjoy the ceiling titty because I didn't get my generational collective noun refrigerator magnet in the mail and ruined it for everyone.

/ceiling titty.
 
2014-01-23 01:07:58 PM  
That's not what TFA says, dumbfark-mitter.

Now that I've got that out of the way...

That finding implies mobility is stuck at a low rate, at least compared to other wealthy nations: It is much harder for a poor child born in America to climb into the rare air of the country's highest earners than it is for a similar child in, for example, Canada or Denmark.

Wooo! America, fark yeah!

And finally in the words of George Carlin: "They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
 
2014-01-23 01:08:08 PM  

DrPainMD: Marine1: My dad, who paid for my undergrad (he had been saving since before I was born)...

Your dad did it wrong; my dad beat the crap out of me if I brought home an A-. I went to college on a scholarship.


Your dad did it wronger. We never touched our kids. Both got multiple scholarships.
 
2014-01-23 01:08:16 PM  

Bondith: The Bunyip: I'd thought the problem wasn't in finding a job but that Millennials felt they should be working 30 hours a week and making six figures after graduating college?

I've love to have a job that paid me to be here for 30 hours a week.  I might actually have some excess income to put into savings like a proper adult.


Plus they'd have to give you benefits!

Ohhhhhhh...

...those sneaky bastards.

/I mean, "good corporate citizens"
//all hail the new boss
 
2014-01-23 01:09:24 PM  

cptjeff: Millennial are generally defined as born between 1980-95. The youngest are college age right now



My daughter falls into that category (born 1994).

She's in college now and doing ok despite having no real direction or goals.  She's also got a terrific work ethic and isnt too self-entitled.

Her little circle of stoner / slacker buddies are really sweet and respectful people too, but they have an air of defeatism about themselves and their peers that is sort of disheartening.  It's as though they believe they're just holding a place until the next generation comes along to get things back on track.

Anyway, I really wonder how she (my daughter) will ever make any real money and I can only imagine it ever happening by her finally getting married and pooling earnings with some guy.

The thing is, had she been born a boy (or a Tom-Boy lesbian) with the same level of intelligence, she could have worked and apprenticed with me, ultimately taking over my little business and being set for life.  As it happens, she couldn't care less about being any part of it.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that in a hundred + years when archivists and curiosity seekers are sifting through these old forums to get a taste of who we were, they're going to have a bit of a laugh and say, "The more things change".
 
2014-01-23 01:14:18 PM  

DrPainMD: Marine1: My dad, who paid for my undergrad (he had been saving since before I was born)...

Your dad did it wrong; my dad beat the crap out of me if I brought home an A-. I went to college on a scholarship.


cdn.niketalk.com
 
2014-01-23 01:17:16 PM  

stewbert: wildcardjack: I have a good one for this thread already written... Let me dig it out.

I don't get how people can work full time... I mean, a third of your day at work, plus a commute on either end, and maybe an hour in the middle forced out of your life by an unbillable "lunch" hour. All said and done that's at least 12 hours, and then you're expected to sleep a solid 8, leaving you 4 hours to groom, cook, clean, exercise, and socialize. Where in that life are you supposed to develop as a person?

/I only work about 16 hours a week.
//Helps if you aren't making your boss and your bosses boss and your bosses bosses boss rich.

I agree, that's why I try to do as little actual work as possible. However, I still have the commute.


Most of my 16 hours is driving between locations.
 
2014-01-23 01:17:24 PM  

browntimmy: Superjew: I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".

Here's the thing, doesn't this actually reflect more that the previous generation was really shiatty at parenting?


And that's a bingo!

The Boomers pretty much suck as a generation, from kids who mostly got high to adults who sold out every ideal they supposedly had to parents who needed to be buddies with their kids to old people who refuse to retire and let the next generation get jobs.
 
2014-01-23 01:17:43 PM  

alice_600: Okay subby here a slice of my Job serching life.

Today I found out about a furniture sales job. They are taking applications but not hiring anyone. How is that economic growth? How is that helping me move out on my own? How is this going to help me become an independent adult and getting a house? How subby? How?

It will only change when you make these people who take applications actually hire someone and not do the equivalent of trolling for souls.


I went for what I thought was an interview after college that turned out to be a sales pitch for one of those get rich quick real estate scams. Fun times.

/glad I got all dressed up
 
2014-01-23 01:20:17 PM  
Post Office is firing people left and right. Lost my, as you would put it, "comfy" job there last year and that was after managing to return from being laid off the previous year. If you think the Postal Service is a source of steady employment you're very mistaken.
 
2014-01-23 01:21:01 PM  

The Bunyip: I'd thought the problem wasn't in finding a job but that Millennials felt they should be working 30 hours a week and making six figures after graduating college?


My teacher mother in law thinks it is just absurd because I insist that I do not get all federal holidays off, a couple of days off each side of thanksgiving, 13 days off for Christmas, and a week off for spring break plus time off to visit her in the summer.

Then again, she didn't mind me paying 25% of her house so that she could get a mortgage.

Daughter needs to check to make sure I really do have to work and am not over at someone's house......
 
2014-01-23 01:23:09 PM  

brimed03: browntimmy: Superjew: I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".

Here's the thing, doesn't this actually reflect more that the previous generation was really shiatty at parenting?

And that's a bingo!

The Boomers pretty much suck as a generation, from kids who mostly got high to adults who sold out every ideal they supposedly had to parents who needed to be buddies with their kids to old people who refuse to retire and let the next generation get jobs.


Do you have a newsletter?
 
2014-01-23 01:23:54 PM  

Ishidan: VvonderJesus: Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.

Have you looked into w?

No, everybody knows that what you gotta do is v.


I've been in # for decades. It's basically the same thing. Try starting in the mail room and working your way up to CEO.
 
2014-01-23 01:25:08 PM  

wildcardjack: I have a good one for this thread already written... Let me dig it out.

I don't get how people can work full time... I mean, a third of your day at work, plus a commute on either end, and maybe an hour in the middle forced out of your life by an unbillable "lunch" hour. All said and done that's at least 12 hours, and then you're expected to sleep a solid 8, leaving you 4 hours to groom, cook, clean, exercise, and socialize. Where in that life are you supposed to develop as a person?

/I only work about 16 hours a week.
//Helps if you aren't making your boss and your bosses boss and your bosses bosses boss rich.


So what do you do, for only 16 hours a week, that earns you enough to have a life, develop as a person, marry, buy a house, raise children, save towards their education, and save towards your retirement?

Since you're bragging, I assume you've done all those things. Not merely living in a shiatty apartment going snowboarding with your bff Kevin in your '98 Kia.

/yeah I know, truth probably lies somewhere in between
//so tell us, hotshot, what do you do?
 
2014-01-23 01:36:45 PM  

TomD9938: The thing is, had she been born a boy (or a Tom-Boy lesbian) with the same level of intelligence, she could have worked and apprenticed with me, ultimately taking over my little business and being set for life. As it happens, she couldn't care less about being any part of it.


What do you do that a heterosexual female couldn't do? Does it involve having sex with women for money?
 
2014-01-23 01:46:40 PM  

Last Man on Earth: cptjeff: nijika: I really love how Boomers are rubber stamping Millenials as lazy right out of the gate before most of them have even left college.  And the Gen Xers who are participating in this circle jerk, what's our excuse?  The Boomers said the exact same garbage about us when there was a mini-recession in the early to mid 90's and there weren't any jobs.

Remember?  No?  Of course not, now go vote all bootstrappy like.

Millennial are generally defined as born between 1980-95. The youngest are college age right now. Most Millennials who will have gone to college have already graduated or are currently in school.

Just so we're clear on the group we're talking about.

What exactly do you mean when you say "generally defined?"  I would classify the majority of the 80s as being Gen X.  Then there's supposed to be this Gen Y, but I've never really been clear about whether that's just another name for the Millenials or not.  Honestly, though, culture changes so rapidly these days that the idea of discrete generations has kind of lost meaning.


That that's how academics and journalists who talk about this stuff generally define it. Some go a year or two in the other direction, but people born in the 80s are considered Millennials. Gen X generally grew up or came of age in the 80s. And Gen Y and Millennials are the same group- "Gen Y" was coined as a placeholder when everyone was talking about Gen X and speculating as to what the next generation would be like. "Millennials" is what people settled on once we started developing a defined identity.

You're right though, culture does change pretty quickly these days, but that in itself is a trend that helps define a cohort. There's more to it, and it's still a useful thing to look at. It's not just about culture, it's about the larger environment that you grow up and come of age in. Millennials grew up in an era of rapidly shifting culture, emerging technologies and media platforms. There's also the political environment- the GWB administration gave us as a collective very little faith in government, and the last 5 years have really solidified the idea that government is gridlocked and can't do anything. There was a story recently where a reporter went to the Kennedy School of Government and asked how many people in the room were planning to go into Government- and absolutely no-one raised their hands, and that result stood up to interviews. Millennial are far more publicly engaged than pretty much any other generation has been, but as a generation, we're completely unplugged from government. So that energy flows to non-profits, microloans, and small scale, sustainable entrepreneurship. Not bad things, but incapable of creating the systemic policy shifts needed to solve a lot of problems. I could go on, but there are a lot of dynamics you can still identify.


sweetmelissa31: TomD9938: The thing is, had she been born a boy (or a Tom-Boy lesbian) with the same level of intelligence, she could have worked and apprenticed with me, ultimately taking over my little business and being set for life. As it happens, she couldn't care less about being any part of it.

What do you do that a heterosexual female couldn't do? Does it involve having sex with women for money?


Not something a heterosexual female couldn't do, but maybe something the typical heterosexual female, including his daughter, isn't interested in, and the typical male is. Looking at the pic in his profile, looks like maybe he does something related to fishing.
 
2014-01-23 01:49:27 PM  

Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.


If you speak Japanese, EIP.
 
2014-01-23 01:53:03 PM  

Fano: brimed03: browntimmy: Superjew: I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".

Here's the thing, doesn't this actually reflect more that the previous generation was really shiatty at parenting?

And that's a bingo!

The Boomers pretty much suck as a generation, from kids who mostly got high to adults who sold out every ideal they supposedly had to parents who needed to be buddies with their kids to old people who refuse to retire and let the next generation get jobs.

Do you have a newsletter?


Depends. Do you want to subscribe, or avoid it?

/makes great birdcage liner!
 
2014-01-23 01:53:25 PM  

Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.


have you tried using chili powder?
 
2014-01-23 01:54:56 PM  

sweetmelissa31: TomD9938: The thing is, had she been born a boy (or a Tom-Boy lesbian) with the same level of intelligence, she could have worked and apprenticed with me, ultimately taking over my little business and being set for life. As it happens, she couldn't care less about being any part of it.


What do you do that a heterosexual female couldn't do?


It's mainly about 50% construction, 35% electronics and 15% paperwork.  The only women we generally see in the field in mine or similar industries are generally "one of the guys".


Does it involve having sex with women for money?

My customers are largely corporate clients that mainly cater to women - so in a round about way I am being hired to service women.
 
2014-01-23 01:55:42 PM  

brimed03: The Boomers pretty much suck as a generation, from kids who mostly got high to adults who sold out every ideal they supposedly had to parents who needed to be buddies with their kids to old people who refuse to retire and let the next generation get jobs.


I take it you're unfamiliar with the poem "This Be the Verse". Hopefully, after reading it, you won't have quite the same platitudinous anger you currently exhibit.
 
2014-01-23 01:58:02 PM  
memedad.com
 
2014-01-23 02:00:33 PM  
Millennials complaint- "Hey how come I did everything I was supposed to (ie, did well in school got scholarships, got a degree, got a professional degree, etc) and there are no jobs, I'm crushed by student debt and I'm going to be poor my whole life?"

Study- "Hey, they all went to college, so no problem here."

Millenial- *while facepalming* fark you all as hard as you can imagine.
 
2014-01-23 02:01:27 PM  
old people messed up the world and refuse to take any responsibility, how shocking.
 
2014-01-23 02:04:23 PM  

Z-clipped: IamAwake: wildcardjack: Where in that life are you supposed to develop as a person?

weekends?  multi-tasking during the day?  Do people not socialize with coworkers in your universe?  I could go on...

But if you're multitasking and socializing during your workday, how can you also produce double the productivity for the same or less money than your parents did?

[ek4t.com image 850x544]


I'm actually pretty qualified to answer that question.

The reason people are more productive now is they are given more efficient processes and workspaces.  The non-producing support personnel of today - "overhead" as it were - are far more prolific than they were prior to when that gap appeared.  How many IT jobs existed prior to 1974?  How many project management positions?  How many process improvement consultants?  Blah blah etc - the percentage of non-productive, non-executive, "overhead" people in the workplace has risen considerably.

Say you have a company that makes medical devices and sells them.  In 1950 you'd have engineers designing products, manufacturing making the products, and sales selling the products - all managed by executives, assisted by secretaries.  In 2014 you have QA testing the products, regulatory dealing with external verification agencies (FDA, JITC, etc), IT providing and supporting the computing infrastructure, so on, so forth.

All that chart does is compare the pay of the engineers and manufacturing, without taking into consideration that the vast majority of that gap is eaten up by all the new categories of jobs which now exist, and which didn't before.  That gap doesn't go 100% to a shareholder/owner's pocket, or some such.
 
2014-01-23 02:11:49 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The gf's little sister just got out of college. She's 25, has a masters in criminal psych, has never had a job (not even part time retail) and is applying for high level positions with federal agencies. So far no luck.


Good luck is right.  I have 15 years experience and am getting edged out.

Tell her the strip bars are always hiring.  Better money too
 
2014-01-23 02:17:25 PM  

yakmans_dad: brimed03: The Boomers pretty much suck as a generation, from kids who mostly got high to adults who sold out every ideal they supposedly had to parents who needed to be buddies with their kids to old people who refuse to retire and let the next generation get jobs.

I take it you're unfamiliar with the poem "This Be the Verse". Hopefully, after reading it, you won't have quite the same platitudinous anger you currently exhibit.


Pfff... typical Boomer.  "Studying poetry in college got me a great job, so it should work for you too."  ; )

The problem with the Boomers isn't that they were any better or worse as people in general.  The problem was that their generation was so big and has had so much economic and political weight to throw around that its zeitgeist ended up being analogous to "only child syndrome".

A Boomer is not a bad person.  But the Boomers were selfish, entitled, pampered, and have hoarded opportunity and wealth through policy like no other group in American history.
 
2014-01-23 02:18:11 PM  

AngryDragon: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The gf's little sister just got out of college. She's 25, has a masters in criminal psych, has never had a job (not even part time retail) and is applying for high level positions with federal agencies. So far no luck.

Good luck is right.  I have 15 years experience and am getting edged out.

Tell her the strip bars are always hiring.  Better money too


did you miss the part about her being 25?

//too-old.jpg
 
2014-01-23 02:19:18 PM  

Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.


Ditto.
 
2014-01-23 02:24:27 PM  

IamAwake: That gap doesn't go 100% to a shareholder/owner's pocket, or some such.


That's an interesting and clearly stated analysis, thanks.  I'm still trying to square it with this though:

currydemocrats.org
 
2014-01-23 02:30:11 PM  
I think the main problem is companies are not willing to train anymore, as others have stated. And a lot of the corporate world today doesnt seemed geared towards long term employment. I have been at my current building for 3 years. In that time I have seen some major turnover, I would figure about 10% of the people here were here when I started. It would seem that would be the norm for most of the places I have been at. Hel we just had a person here quit, they had been here for 4 years and in that time didnt get a raise, yet they had all types of awards on their desk for employee of the quarter etc. And they wonder why they cant keep good people sometimes.
 
2014-01-23 02:33:53 PM  

IamAwake: Z-clipped: IamAwake: wildcardjack: Where in that life are you supposed to develop as a person?

weekends?  multi-tasking during the day?  Do people not socialize with coworkers in your universe?  I could go on...

But if you're multitasking and socializing during your workday, how can you also produce double the productivity for the same or less money than your parents did?

[ek4t.com image 850x544]

I'm actually pretty qualified to answer that question.

The reason people are more productive now is they are given more efficient processes and workspaces.  The non-producing support personnel of today - "overhead" as it were - are far more prolific than they were prior to when that gap appeared.  How many IT jobs existed prior to 1974?  How many project management positions?  How many process improvement consultants?  Blah blah etc - the percentage of non-productive, non-executive, "overhead" people in the workplace has risen considerably.

Say you have a company that makes medical devices and sells them.  In 1950 you'd have engineers designing products, manufacturing making the products, and sales selling the products - all managed by executives, assisted by secretaries.  In 2014 you have QA testing the products, regulatory dealing with external verification agencies (FDA, JITC, etc), IT providing and supporting the computing infrastructure, so on, so forth.

All that chart does is compare the pay of the engineers and manufacturing, without taking into consideration that the vast majority of that gap is eaten up by all the new categories of jobs which now exist, and which didn't before.  That gap doesn't go 100% to a shareholder/owner's pocket, or some such.


Perhaps I'm reading this incorrectly, but it appears that the BLS (the source of the original data) defines labor productivity in such a way that the overhead is included in the labor number for their productivity calculations.  If so, then any increase in the role of overhead would be reflected in a less steep or drop in the productivity levels themselves, and would not explain away the gap shown in the original comment.  Of course, using income instead of compensation is a little misleading as non-income compensation has increased even though income has remained flat (this is mostly but not completely due to the rising cost of healthcare).

The gap does not go all to a shareholder's pocket, of course, but labor's share as a percentage of the national income is falling while the share of capital is rising.
 
2014-01-23 02:49:21 PM  

weltallica: [memedad.com image 500x499]


Which generation was that?
 
2014-01-23 03:02:55 PM  

Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.


I think the real problem is you got a degree in science in a country that really doesn't seem to give a shiat about science.  My cousin and his wife both have science degrees and it took them quite awhile to find work after graduating. Good luck to you!
 
2014-01-23 03:14:39 PM  
is this the thread where sad-sack mopes try to assign some sort of actual conscious intent on the part of demographic groupings as though those groupings were sentient entities?
 
2014-01-23 03:15:58 PM  

llortcM_yllort: Perhaps I'm reading this incorrectly, but it appears that the BLS (the source of the original data) defines labor productivity in such a way that the overhead is included in the labor number for their productivity calculations.


I'm pretty sure that's not the case.  Ever have a workplace/job who makes you bill out your time to specific projects, and explicitly state where your overhead is?  If you're a non-production worker, your percentage of overhead time in such a place will be very large.  If you're a production worker, your percentage of overhead time in such a place will be very small.

That link even talks about non-production time, and white-collar tasks, not being included.
 
2014-01-23 03:16:50 PM  

Day_Old_Dutchie: I'm sick and tired of my long-retired Yooper father-in-law ranting on and on about how the unemployed are less than human because they are lazy.

He was hired at a GM plant back in the late forties when he simply showed up one day and knocked on the door and asked for a job. Of course stayed there for 35 years before retiring. He refuses to hear that people need to be constantly searching for work because tomorrow you could be laid off and you need to be prepared.


i2.cdnds.net
 
2014-01-23 03:17:02 PM  

letrole: is this the thread where sad-sack mopes try to assign some sort of actual conscious intent on the part of demographic groupings as though those groupings were sentient entities?


Corporations are people, my friend.
 
2014-01-23 03:17:58 PM  

Slaxl: Economic mobility isn't the same thing as being unable to find a job as easily as their parents did.


Presumably if you can't find a job for a long period you experience downward mobility. And mobility hasn't changed.
 
2014-01-23 03:21:05 PM  

alice_600: Okay subby here a slice of my Job serching life.

Today I found out about a furniture sales job. They are taking applications but not hiring anyone. How is that economic growth? How is that helping me move out on my own? How is this going to help me become an independent adult and getting a house? How subby? How?

It will only change when you make these people who take applications actually hire someone and not do the equivalent of trolling for souls.


So you tried one place and they didn't hire you so now you assume the whole world is broken?
 
2014-01-23 03:21:30 PM  

Z-clipped: IamAwake: That gap doesn't go 100% to a shareholder/owner's pocket, or some such.

That's an interesting and clearly stated analysis, thanks.  I'm still trying to square it with this though:

[currydemocrats.org image 500x327]


llortcM_yllort: The gap does not go all to a shareholder's pocket, of course, but labor's share as a percentage of the national income is falling while the share of capital is rising.


You're both very correct, not disagreeing.  My point was only that the gap in that chart isn't 100% going to shareholders/owners/execs; there's a lot of new cost-of-doing-business inputs now.

That execs and owners are getting astronomically higher rates compared to the average worker now than they were before is related, sure, but doesn't cover that whole gap.
 
2014-01-23 03:22:32 PM  

Z-clipped: yakmans_dad: brimed03: The Boomers pretty much suck as a generation, from kids who mostly got high to adults who sold out every ideal they supposedly had to parents who needed to be buddies with their kids to old people who refuse to retire and let the next generation get jobs.

I take it you're unfamiliar with the poem "This Be the Verse". Hopefully, after reading it, you won't have quite the same platitudinous anger you currently exhibit.

Pfff... typical Boomer.  "Studying poetry in college got me a great job, so it should work for you too."  ; )


Actually, studying computer programming in college got me a job. In my experience the only people who read much beyond cereal boxes are computer programmers. As a class, anyway. Computer programmers and  English Lit majors, anyway.
 
2014-01-23 03:24:14 PM  

SpectroBoy: Slaxl: Economic mobility isn't the same thing as being unable to find a job as easily as their parents did.

Presumably if you can't find a job for a long period you experience downward mobility. And mobility hasn't changed.


The USA has considerably worse economic mobility than the "socialist" democracies of Western Europe.  Go figure. American rhetoric doesn't match the reality? No way.
 
2014-01-23 03:24:41 PM  

SpectroBoy: And mobility hasn't changed.


Actually, since they're completely fudging the mobility numbers on the most recent generation based solely on education level and specifically not looking at job data, this is a far-from-settled point.
 
2014-01-23 03:27:20 PM  

alice_600: Today I found out about a furniture sales job. They are taking applications but not hiring anyone.


As a manager I have been coached in this area. If I interview some dope who barely speaks English and stinks of body odor I can't say "No thanks, I am looking for a person who can communicate and doesn't make me want to puke". The applicant might be a member of a protected class and I might get the company in trouble. Instead we say "Well, there are other applicants to interview. We'll let you know". If they follow up it's "We have already filled the position". It's all one big stupid game.

Sounds like they just didn't want to hire you.
 
2014-01-23 03:28:14 PM  

IamAwake: llortcM_yllort: Perhaps I'm reading this incorrectly, but it appears that the BLS (the source of the original data) defines labor productivity in such a way that the overhead is included in the labor number for their productivity calculations.

I'm pretty sure that's not the case.  Ever have a workplace/job who makes you bill out your time to specific projects, and explicitly state where your overhead is?  If you're a non-production worker, your percentage of overhead time in such a place will be very large.  If you're a production worker, your percentage of overhead time in such a place will be very small.

That link even talks about non-production time, and white-collar tasks, not being included.


Except the BLS explicitly states that they estimate all hours vs all output, not just productive hours vs output.  They also explicitly say that they can't break down between blue-collar and white-collar productivity, so they don't.

I've also been looking for information on SG&A changes over time; since 1998, at least, it's remained pretty flat (as reported by S&P 500 companies), which still contrasts with rising productivity.  So, the argument fails on multiple fronts.
 
2014-01-23 03:28:46 PM  

Z-clipped: SpectroBoy: And mobility hasn't changed.

Actually, since they're completely fudging the mobility numbers on the most recent generation based solely on education level and specifically not looking at job data, this is a far-from-settled point.


Fair point.

/but I was mostly kidding.
 
2014-01-23 03:29:06 PM  

yakmans_dad: Actually, studying computer programming in college got me a job.


I was joking about the poetry thing.

yakmans_dad: In my experience the only people who read much beyond cereal boxes are computer programmers. As a class, anyway.


Pull the other one.
 
2014-01-23 03:35:59 PM  

Z-clipped: yakmans_dad: Actually, studying computer programming in college got me a job.

I was joking about the poetry thing.

yakmans_dad: In my experience the only people who read much beyond cereal boxes are computer programmers. As a class, anyway.

Pull the other one.


Terrible haiku. It doesn't rhyme.
 
2014-01-23 03:44:07 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: No one is allowed to biatch about the state of the generation that comes after them.

You and your peers are the ones who raised and shaped the generation after you and you and your peers are the ones who created the world that they have to interact with.

What kind of asshole digs a hole, pushes someone from behind into said hole, and then blames that person for both the hole and being in it?

And no, jobs aren't as easy to come by anymore. There are less jobs to be had in general thanks to the Gen X and Boomer run corporations shipping jobs overseas and forcing the existing workforce to do the job of 2-3 people for no extra pay.

I used to work with guys who were 50-60 years old who were almost literally pulled off the street and told, "Here's what we're going to teach you to do from now on". That's how so many of the people who have 30+ years got those years. Today, for the exact same position as those coworkers I needed a college education and prior experience. I did the exact same work as they did. Actually, I did more work than them because they liked to sit back and do nothing because they "earned it".

Fewer and fewer employers are willing to train people nowadays. They want someone who is already fully trained and experienced. A couple of years ago I was looking for a new job. I'm a tradesman. Instrumentation, specifically. It's sort of a specialized electrician. I was looking for instrument and electrical jobs. virtually all of them that I found wanted 5+ years experience as a minimum. Others wanted 5+ as well as someone who is able to do 2-3 different trades and only was offering $15/hr or less. It's insane. Companies want fully trained, multi-talented people and aren't willing to pay much to get them.

Companies want skeleton crews who are all masters at their field. There's not much room in the current corporate structure for new employees, fresh grads, and/or trainees.

Another job that I had before were run with that skeleton crew mentality. 4 of ever ...


So much this.

I'm pretty sure the children who received participation medals weren't the ones who decided to hand them out.

Boomers instilled certain values and morals in their millennium children, and then the boomers have the audacity to complain about the values and morals the now grown children have.
 
2014-01-23 04:06:19 PM  
I work two very different jobs, and i interact with millinials in both of them.  I think their reputation for whiny entitlement is kind of overblown.
 
2014-01-23 04:08:24 PM  
 
2014-01-23 04:13:42 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Reverend J: I've got a PhD in chemistry with experience  and I've been outta work for a year, so yeah, the market kinda sucks right now.

/Hundreds of applications
//Numerous interviews
///If you say "Oh, you're doing x wrong" or, "How 'bout you try y" I'll punch you in the face.

My dad got his PhD in chemistry in 1980, then spent a year looking for work. IIRC, he claimed he applied to 102 jobs, and got 104 rejection letters.

And then he worked for Exxon for 20 years - even offered to help clean up Hazelwood's Hazy Happenstance, but apparently they needed bookish chemists in NJ, not in AK.


My dad got his PhD in sociology in '69 had a tenured(not track; tenured position) before '72 (not sure exact timing but before I was born), my mom walked into a brokerage in 1980 asked for an informational interview and walked out with a job offer(undergrad degree in history), people that say it is not harder now are blow hards and have no idea what it is really like out there.

/Gen X
/Fark all of you
 
2014-01-23 04:16:39 PM  

Z-clipped: ikanreed: The Bunyip: I'd thought the problem wasn't in finding a job but that Millennials felt they should be working 30 hours a week and making six figures after graduating college?

Yeah, no one thinks that.

However, I'd say that a lot of my cohort (I'm in my late 30s) were told by their Boomer parents "just go to college, and you'll do fine", because that was true for their generation.  They just didn't care/didn't realize that the policy decisions they were making to make their own lives easier were sucking the future economic lifeblood out of the middle class.


It's not just that, either. They shrugged at the changes that didn't make their lives immediately worse and let all the money get sucked up to the top tier. And here we are.
 
2014-01-23 04:31:14 PM  

obenchainr: Except the BLS explicitly states that they estimate all hours vs all output, not just productive hours vs output.


From the link you gave:  "Productivity is measured by comparing the amount of goods and services produced with the inputs which were used in production. Labor productivity is the ratio of the output of goods and services to the labor hours devoted to the production of that output. "

Process improvement, HR, regulatory, etc - none of those things are involved in production.   They simply make production more efficient.

The reason it is a complicated thing to compute is because they don't just take every worker, and compare that to the output.  If they did as you are saying/thinking, then it would be an extremely simple, straight-forward task.
 
2014-01-23 04:36:57 PM  

SpectroBoy: alice_600: Today I found out about a furniture sales job. They are taking applications but not hiring anyone.

As a manager I have been coached in this area. If I interview some dope who barely speaks English and stinks of body odor I can't say "No thanks, I am looking for a person who can communicate and doesn't make me want to puke". The applicant might be a member of a protected class and I might get the company in trouble. Instead we say "Well, there are other applicants to interview. We'll let you know". If they follow up it's "We have already filled the position". It's all one big stupid game.

Sounds like they just didn't want to hire you.


Resume farming is definitely a thing. In mortgage areas, they always want to maintain a thick stack of resumes so that if they need people fast, they can get on the phone and hire someone. Of course, when the work dies down, you get laid off.

I'm Gen-X. If I had to put up with what 20-30 year olds do now just to get ANY job, I would say enough of this cr*p and move to India or the middle East.
 
2014-01-23 04:40:14 PM  
I never understood the hate for Millenials (I am 26 so I am one).

I have a job, got my masters, working up the ladder so to speak, etc. But I know others who are not so lucky in this ultra-competitive job market of ours. There's no need to shame and denigrate them.

I also don't understand why people freak out so much about the "Participation medals". I got those throughout my youth but I still knew I sucked at sports even with one. It only messed me up enough to join Fark and snark about everyone else.
 
2014-01-23 06:36:10 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The gf's little sister just got out of college. She's 25, has a masters in criminal psych, has never had a job (not even part time retail) and is applying for high level positions with federal agencies. So far no luck.


3.bp.blogspot.com

On the right is Reality. On the left is your gf's little sister.

The impact has just started. Soon you will have 'head-snap-back', then 'spray of spittle and blood', followed by 'loss of consciousness', wrapped up with 'impact with mat.'

Treasure every moment.
 
2014-01-23 06:50:20 PM  

JungleBoogie: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The gf's little sister just got out of college. She's 25, has a masters in criminal psych, has never had a job (not even part time retail) and is applying for high level positions with federal agencies. So far no luck.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 400x377]

On the right is Reality. On the left is your gf's little sister.

The impact has just started. Soon you will have 'head-snap-back', then 'spray of spittle and blood', followed by 'loss of consciousness', wrapped up with 'impact with mat.'

Treasure every moment.


All those muscles on the left? Those are the college degrees.
 
2014-01-23 07:08:23 PM  

Superjew: I was a student assistant in the very early '90s when they started giving out awards and recognition certificates to everyone for anything.

I distinctly recall saying to a co-worker, "this will not end well".


You know, I'm a millennial, and I think handing out awards for attending is BS. Hey, Tater Jr. Your not special. You're a whiny little brat who gets below average grades because you have an IQ of 90 and spend most of the day jerking it in the bathroom. If you don't get into shape you know where you're gonna end up at age 30? Cleaning the bathrooms at TacoBell. Giving BJs to republican senators in cheap motel rooms. And that's if your lucky.
God, I wish my teachers gave that speech.
 
2014-01-23 07:12:02 PM  
S-E-C! S-E-C!

Companion work by the Chetty team suggests that geography may be a critical factor in the pursuit of the American Dream. That research shows that some parts of the country, particularly the Southeast, have experienced persistently lower mobility over time than other parts, such as the Mountain West.
 
2014-01-23 07:56:47 PM  
" ...Mountain West."

I assume this means Colorado so if you build nukes your fine.

Got it in 1983

/Wolverines!
 
2014-01-23 08:14:48 PM  

SpectroBoy: alice_600: Okay subby here a slice of my Job serching life.

Today I found out about a furniture sales job. They are taking applications but not hiring anyone. How is that economic growth? How is that helping me move out on my own? How is this going to help me become an independent adult and getting a house? How subby? How?

It will only change when you make these people who take applications actually hire someone and not do the equivalent of trolling for souls.

So you tried one place and they didn't hire you so now you assume the whole world is broken?


Nope this has happened at all the places, department stores, businesses, etc. You see a sign that says "Help Wanted" or and add. You go to fill out the application and they say "We're taking applications but not hiring," Or you fill out an application and send your resume in and you never hear from them. It's like saying here's the house but you gotta have land for it," There was a great story in the N.Y. Times about HR departments calling people back for 3rd interviews 4th interviews 5th Interviews 6th interviews even. Making them do projects and then stealing the ideas. [1]

Read the comments too and you tell me how is that helping the economy? Tell me?

That there is why there is a ton of unemployment. It's H.R. committing psychological fraud while looking busy for the boss.

1. With Positions to Fill, Employers Wait for Perfection
By CATHERINE RAMPELL
New York Times Published: March 6, 2013

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/business/economy/despite-job-vacan ci es-employers-shy-away-from-hiring.html?adxnnl=1&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx =1390525278-Z6MPf+jhbkfMEMQP24N7ZQ
 
2014-01-23 08:29:57 PM  
OMW to go read TFA- I predict it's "there are plenty of minimum wage jobs to be had, so quit complaining".
 
2014-01-23 09:17:08 PM  

alice_600: SpectroBoy: alice_600: Okay subby here a slice of my Job serching life.

Today I found out about a furniture sales job. They are taking applications but not hiring anyone. How is that economic growth? How is that helping me move out on my own? How is this going to help me become an independent adult and getting a house? How subby? How?

It will only change when you make these people who take applications actually hire someone and not do the equivalent of trolling for souls.

So you tried one place and they didn't hire you so now you assume the whole world is broken?

Nope this has happened at all the places, department stores, businesses, etc. You see a sign that says "Help Wanted" or and add. You go to fill out the application and they say "We're taking applications but not hiring," Or you fill out an application and send your resume in and you never hear from them. It's like saying here's the house but you gotta have land for it," There was a great story in the N.Y. Times about HR departments calling people back for 3rd interviews 4th interviews 5th Interviews 6th interviews even. Making them do projects and then stealing the ideas. [1]

Read the comments too and you tell me how is that helping the economy? Tell me?

That there is why there is a ton of unemployment. It's H.R. committing psychological fraud while looking busy for the boss.

1. With Positions to Fill, Employers Wait for Perfection
By CATHERINE RAMPELL
New York Times Published: March 6, 2013

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/business/economy/despite-job-vacan ci es-employers-shy-away-from-hiring.html?adxnnl=1&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx =1390525278-Z6MPf+jhbkfMEMQP24N7ZQ


There's tons of unemployment because the American experiment has been started worldwide. Global trade and multinational companies means that many professions are being outsourced. Kids out of college can't get a job because too many of what used to be good jobs have migrated overseas. So if you want to have guaranteed employment you have to differentiate yourself. Is it fair? No, but crying and whining about the 1% won't help. The top 10% earn disproportionately more because they have careers that exploit global competition instead of the reverse.
 
2014-01-23 09:22:53 PM  

Animatronik: alice_600: SpectroBoy: alice_600: Okay subby here a slice of my Job serching life.

Today I found out about a furniture sales job. They are taking applications but not hiring anyone. How is that economic growth? How is that helping me move out on my own? How is this going to help me become an independent adult and getting a house? How subby? How?

It will only change when you make these people who take applications actually hire someone and not do the equivalent of trolling for souls.

So you tried one place and they didn't hire you so now you assume the whole world is broken?

Nope this has happened at all the places, department stores, businesses, etc. You see a sign that says "Help Wanted" or and add. You go to fill out the application and they say "We're taking applications but not hiring," Or you fill out an application and send your resume in and you never hear from them. It's like saying here's the house but you gotta have land for it," There was a great story in the N.Y. Times about HR departments calling people back for 3rd interviews 4th interviews 5th Interviews 6th interviews even. Making them do projects and then stealing the ideas. [1]

Read the comments too and you tell me how is that helping the economy? Tell me?

That there is why there is a ton of unemployment. It's H.R. committing psychological fraud while looking busy for the boss.

1. With Positions to Fill, Employers Wait for Perfection
By CATHERINE RAMPELL
New York Times Published: March 6, 2013

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/business/economy/despite-job-vacan ci es-employers-shy-away-from-hiring.html?adxnnl=1&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx =1390525278-Z6MPf+jhbkfMEMQP24N7ZQ

There's tons of unemployment because the American experiment has been started worldwide. Global trade and multinational companies means that many professions are being outsourced. Kids out of college can't get a job because too many of what used to be good jobs have migrated overseas. So if you want to have guaranteed empl ...


or join the military
 
2014-01-23 09:29:52 PM  
When I was growing up it was "do what makes you happy" "there's a place for everyone" and so on.  Now I'm 37 and I find out it's "don't have a STEM degree? well you're a farking moron who wasted your life"
 
2014-01-23 09:54:38 PM  
This thread looks kinda hostile so here's a kitty and a duck.


i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2014-01-23 10:19:01 PM  

Bucky Katt: This thread looks kinda hostile so here's a kitty and a duck.


[i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x597]


"I know you're food, but what kind of food are you?"
 
2014-01-23 10:22:09 PM  
Trail of Dead:
I'll try one more goddamn time:
There are way more employable people than available jobs.


Say it all you want.  doesn't make it true.
If you think repeating yourself makes it a fact you really haven't passed age two in reasoning skills.
 
2014-01-23 11:18:36 PM  
Yep, nearly 200 posts of millenials screeching "It's not OUR fault, it's all SOMEBODY ELSE'S FAULT!"

/must make you feel like big internet tough guys, picking on old people like that
 
2014-01-24 12:22:05 AM  

Animatronik: The top 10% earn disproportionately more because they have careers that exploit global competition people. instead of the reverse.


Fixed.
 
2014-01-24 03:45:42 AM  
it's hard to have jobs when there's very little corporate competition.
 
2014-01-24 02:59:46 PM  

dascott: When I was growing up it was "do what makes you happy" "there's a place for everyone" and so on.  Now I'm 37 and I find out it's "don't have a STEM degree? well you're a farking moron who wasted your life"


That's what happens when bubbles burst.
 
2014-01-24 03:38:43 PM  

yakmans_dad: brimed03: The Boomers pretty much suck as a generation, from kids who mostly got high to adults who sold out every ideal they supposedly had to parents who needed to be buddies with their kids to old people who refuse to retire and let the next generation get jobs.

I take it you're unfamiliar with the poem "This Be the Verse". Hopefully, after reading it, you won't have quite the same platitudinous anger you currently exhibit.


Thanks for that, O Serene One.  Very uplifting.

As I recently told a whiny Millennial: you become an adult when you stop blaming your parents.  Sure, your parents effed you up a bit, maybe even a shiatload.  And you can spend the rest of your life biatching about it like a teenager, or you can grow up and start working on fixing yourself.  That may take a lifetime, but you've got a lifetime, haven't you?  And maybe-- just maybe-- in the process, you'll pass down a little less shiat to your kids.  Who knows?  You may even teach them how to deal with their shiat earlier and better than you.  Keep that up and maybe someday there'll be a generation less effed up than the one before.

Maybe I should send that quote to your favorite poet.  Sounds like he's got some growing up to do.
 
Displayed 202 of 202 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report