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(Campus Reform)   If you were a professor at a major university during a shooting, what would you do? Lock the doors? Turn off the lights? The correct answer is: carry on as normal, ignore your students' concerns, and joke about having them tackle the shooter   (campusreform.org) divider line 32
    More: Fail, shocks, Purdue, Rebecca Trax, Inter-process communication, lecture hall, business management  
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6170 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jan 2014 at 11:47 AM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-23 11:52:57 AM
6 votes:
Continuing in the face of danger was considered noble in WWII.  When did useless cowering that protects no one become the favored tactic?
2014-01-23 11:55:11 AM
4 votes:
To make matters worse, the text messaging system was reportedly inconsistent. Though students were quickly alerted after the first shots were fired, they were told to "resume normal operations" less than thirty minutes later.

Looks like someone is going out of their way to be offended.  They were told to resume normal operations because the guy was caught...is there a minimum amount of time required for everyone to panic before an all-clear can be given?  An hour? Two? Do we need to cancel the entire day?  Grow a pair.

Oh, and in my days at university we could mostly come and go as we pleased (especially in a 400+ theater).  If you're scared...leave.  Nobody is stopping you.
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-01-23 12:42:26 PM
2 votes:
I work two buildings away in Purdue's Physics building.  It is attached to the EE building by tunnels (though another building).  There on Northwestern street it forms a kind of complex area and connected to a parking garage across the street.  So, basically I was 200 yards or so from where this all took place.

Even so, we pretty much went about our work here.  In retrospect, it was for a number of reasons.  One was the "well, it's not happening in MY building" attitude.  Another was that I'm in a place that can't hear the sirens we have here for such emergencies.

The Purdue police have been pretty positive about the response, but I have already heard grumblings from faculty here.  The faculty DID NOT know what was going on.  Most of them heard it from their students (and some faculty won't listen to students about anything).  It took 45 minutes to an hour to find out what was happening from our web page and we've got a significant number of oldsters on staff that are lucky to even use a computer at all.  So... there were problems.  I suspect everything plays a role (including the ego of the faculty member).
2014-01-23 12:26:49 PM
2 votes:

LazarusLong42: ikanreed: Continuing in the face of danger was considered noble in WWII.  When did useless cowering that protects no one become the favored tactic?

This. Despite all the variations on the British "Keep Calm and Carry On" signs, we seem to have forgotten just what that means.


Prudence has always been considered a virtue. If you have a chance to not die needlessly, you don't choose to die needlessly. Students at a college are not soldiers in a war. It pays to be smart. The British sent their kids to the countryside during the Blitz and went to bomb shelters during the raids, remember. When you can prudently reduce the risk to yourself, you do. In a situation like this, not reducing the risk to yourself isn't noble, it's just stupid.
2014-01-23 12:22:44 PM
2 votes:

TV's Vinnie: Why didn't the coips do anything to stop the shooterl?

AngryDragon: "In a video posted to YouTube Tuesday evening, lecturer Rebecca Trax is reportedly heard joking about the shooting "

It's a chick?  Oh please God.  Let her have tenure already.

[webapps.krannert.purdue.edu image 129x192]

That.....is no chick. Not even sure it's a man either. It's like one of nature's prototypes, never meant for mass production.


Please post a picture of yourself, o paragon of manhood.
2014-01-23 12:13:28 PM
2 votes:
Why didn't the coips do anything to stop the shooterl?

AngryDragon: "In a video posted to YouTube Tuesday evening, lecturer Rebecca Trax is reportedly heard joking about the shooting "

It's a chick?  Oh please God.  Let her have tenure already.


webapps.krannert.purdue.edu

That.....is no chick. Not even sure it's a man either. It's like one of nature's prototypes, never meant for mass production.
2014-01-23 12:06:12 PM
2 votes:
Some profs have some serious tunnel vision and think the universe revolves around them and their class.
2014-01-23 03:55:06 PM
1 votes:

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Sense isn't needed; a Lunatic charging into a crowded lecture hall with guns a-blazin' has a huge advantage over the Hero who would save the day.  Everyone in the room is a target for the Lunatic.  The Hero must first make sure he's aiming for the Lunatic and not another Hero, and then he must hit the Lunatic, and *only* the Lunatic.

So unless you can keep your head when a Lunatic is shooting into a panicky crowd, and can be sure that's the Lunatic you're aiming at, that 9mm isn't going to help you.


The Lunatic is easy to distinguish from the rest of the people.  That should be intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer.  He's the one that just busted into the room and started shooting at everyone.

ABC's 20/20 actually did a test back in 2009 to see if an armed person in a classroom could effectively fight back.

Except that if you watch it and you are paying attention, they stacked the deck:

1. The "Defensive Shooter" was sitting in the same seat for all the tests.
2. The "Active Shooter" in all of the tests targeted the person in that seat first.

Those two things alone show that the test was rigged from the start, but that was just the biggest problem.  Some of the others:

3. The "Active Shooter" was a SWAT team firearms instructor.  Generally, active shooters don't have that kind of level of competence.

4. The "Defensive Shooter" was using a gun and holster unfamiliar to them.

5. The "Defensive Shooter" was wearing bulky gloves and an oversized t-shirt that made it hard to deploy the gun quickly.

6. The holster the "Defensive Shooter" was required to use is a 'retention holster', which is designed to be difficult for a person to remove the gun (to prevent others from stealing the gun), not designed for a person to deploy the gun quickly.  Mostly, they are worn by uniformed police officers for whom gun retention is an issue.  It wasn't a typical concealed carry-type holster.

Even with all those handicaps, though, at least one of the "Defensive Shooters" managed to hit the "Active Shooter".
2014-01-23 02:45:57 PM
1 votes:

Alebak: On one hand if he was trying to keep his students calm, I can  sort of see what he was trying to do, and even if they train professors in what to do its possible that this was his "freeze in the headlights" reaction.

But still, this comes across as SUPER RETARDED. If this wasnt actually some kind of nervous reaction than what the fark was he thinking?


Can you explain your point of view?  You seem to have missed all the comments before yours, so you are obviously on a different track.  Lets hear it.

Is the correct action to hide?  Run?  Jump under your chair and cry?  Barricade the doors?  What is the acceptable response, in your mind?

Personally, I think the professor did a good job. No undue panic, no idiotic "feel good" measures, and minimum disruption to the intended goings on (meaning class).
2014-01-23 02:43:38 PM
1 votes:

Hyjamon: Fizpez: PS It was a hard day of training to get through - when you hear some of the "not on TV" facts about mass shootings (Sandy Hook, VA Tech, Columbine) - - - lets just say emotions were pretty raw.

we had some faculty have a similar reaction when the police chief briefed us on active shooter situations.  He also echoed the same sentiment...you will need to fight at some stage of the event.

If you are on your knees and the shooter has a gun to your head, you had better put up a fight because you are going to die if you don't. There were a lot of gasps at that statement, I think he offended some sensibilities being so candor, but I think people need to realize you have to confront the situation and cannot be passive.


When we had our "situation" here at work a few months ago (suspected person with a weapon on campus, turned out to be an umbrella), I told the two co-workers of my who sheltered in my shared office what the plan was if someone actually made it into the room.

One of them flat out said they couldn't hurt another person.

Think about the implications of that.

One out of three people was basically going to just give up and willingly commit passive suicide instead of trying to save her own life.  And this is a person with a husband and 2 children.

That is why I've *NEVER* said to my son "violence never solves anything" or "violence is never the answer".  Sometimes, violence is the only appropriate answer.  It's a rarity that violence is the appropriate answer, of course.
2014-01-23 01:31:18 PM
1 votes:

ransack.: Hyjamon: ransack.: Hyjamon: Alebak: On one hand if he was trying to keep his students calm, I can  sort of see what he was trying to do, and even if they train professors in what to do its possible that this was his "freeze in the headlights" reaction.

But still, this comes across as SUPER RETARDED. If this wasnt actually some kind of nervous reaction than what the fark was he thinking?

here is where education is utterly confused.

I linked the video up thread on what classrooms (teachers AND students) can do in an active shooter situation.  I asked if we should show this in classes so students can know what actions to take BEFORE an incident.  Explaining what to do after an incident starts is too late.

Our chief of security wanted to think about it.  Some of the arguments AGAINST showing the training video is it would tip off wanna-be shooters as to what tactics might be used to stop them.

Seriously.  Education tends to over-think a lot of things.

/we are still discouraged from showing the video to our students

Does that not make sense to you? Do you honestly think telling people exactly how you plan to react if they attack you is a smart idea?

ever watch sports?  both teams know what the other team is planning yet touchdowns are still made, sacks occur.  I will assume you haven't watched the video since some of the tactics are still tough to counter even if you know what to expect.

and the idea in the training is to reduce the body count, it is tough to 100% prevent any shots from being fired, but we can try to reduce the number fired.

I would rather have 30 people trained on what to do if there is a shooter who went thru the same training vs. 30 people with no training against a shooter who still has a gun and bullets and is probably not mentally healthy..

"both teams know what the other team is planning"?

do you have any idea of the secrecy surrounding an NFL playbook?

can you imagine the disadvantage you would have if your opponent had your playbook ...



This is why open source software is always inferior and less secure to closed source, proprietary software.
2014-01-23 01:14:40 PM
1 votes:

ransack.: Hyjamon: Alebak: On one hand if he was trying to keep his students calm, I can  sort of see what he was trying to do, and even if they train professors in what to do its possible that this was his "freeze in the headlights" reaction.

But still, this comes across as SUPER RETARDED. If this wasnt actually some kind of nervous reaction than what the fark was he thinking?

here is where education is utterly confused.

I linked the video up thread on what classrooms (teachers AND students) can do in an active shooter situation.  I asked if we should show this in classes so students can know what actions to take BEFORE an incident.  Explaining what to do after an incident starts is too late.

Our chief of security wanted to think about it.  Some of the arguments AGAINST showing the training video is it would tip off wanna-be shooters as to what tactics might be used to stop them.

Seriously.  Education tends to over-think a lot of things.

/we are still discouraged from showing the video to our students

Does that not make sense to you? Do you honestly think telling people exactly how you plan to react if they attack you is a smart idea?


ever watch sports?  both teams know what the other team is planning yet touchdowns are still made, sacks occur.  I will assume you haven't watched the video since some of the tactics are still tough to counter even if you know what to expect.

and the idea in the training is to reduce the body count, it is tough to 100% prevent any shots from being fired, but we can try to reduce the number fired.

I would rather have 30 people trained on what to do if there is a shooter who went thru the same training vs. 30 people with no training against a shooter who still has a gun and bullets and is probably not mentally healthy..
2014-01-23 12:59:22 PM
1 votes:
Depends if they have tenure, if they do then nothing can phase them since they've been through the second most grueling employment process. The first is naturally becoming a Physician.

If they don't have tenure then they have nothing to live for so same result, different reasons.

Now, if this shooting happened during office hours that's another matter completely. In that case they'd have to turn the lights on and unlock the door to make the shooter believe that there's nobody in the office.
2014-01-23 12:57:44 PM
1 votes:
The lecturers should be reprimanded for flippant and insensitive comments.  Then everybody should move on with their lives.

TFA should take out the mentions of how concealed carry had been voted down.  It has nothing to do with anything in the story.
2014-01-23 12:45:59 PM
1 votes:

nullptr: DontMakeMeComeBackThere: To make matters worse, the text messaging system was reportedly inconsistent. Though students were quickly alerted after the first shots were fired, they were told to "resume normal operations" less than thirty minutes later.

Looks like someone is going out of their way to be offended.  They were told to resume normal operations because the guy was caught...is there a minimum amount of time required for everyone to panic before an all-clear can be given?  An hour? Two? Do we need to cancel the entire day?  Grow a pair.

Oh, and in my days at university we could mostly come and go as we pleased (especially in a 400+ theater).  If you're scared...leave.  Nobody is stopping you.

That is not how things work during a lockdown.


The word lockdown needs to be removed from our national vocabulary.

Seriously, the only place that word should ever be used is in a prison.
2014-01-23 12:43:48 PM
1 votes:
I love being a professor.  I love teaching undergrads, and being paid to study things that I'm passionate about.  But I absolutely farking hate the high percentage of social misfits this line of work attracts.  The only time I ever think about finding another job is when I walk out of a faculty meeting.
2014-01-23 12:39:29 PM
1 votes:
The professor did EXACTLY the right thing.
2014-01-23 12:39:18 PM
1 votes:

cptjeff: LazarusLong42: ikanreed: Continuing in the face of danger was considered noble in WWII.  When did useless cowering that protects no one become the favored tactic?

This. Despite all the variations on the British "Keep Calm and Carry On" signs, we seem to have forgotten just what that means.

Prudence has always been considered a virtue. If you have a chance to not die needlessly, you don't choose to die needlessly. Students at a college are not soldiers in a war. It pays to be smart. The British sent their kids to the countryside during the Blitz and went to bomb shelters during the raids, remember. When you can prudently reduce the risk to yourself, you do. In a situation like this, not reducing the risk to yourself isn't noble, it's just stupid.


Of course, but IIRC during the VT shootingls only one person actually tried to stop the shooter, an old professor. Everyone else just lined up for target practice. If they would have rushed him, less people may have died.

/hope I'd have the balls to jump the shooter
//at least throw some 5V power supplies at him
///hope I never get to find out
2014-01-23 12:33:42 PM
1 votes:

shanrick: lol


loll
2014-01-23 12:33:01 PM
1 votes:

LazarusLong42: ikanreed: Continuing in the face of danger was considered noble in WWII.  When did useless cowering that protects no one become the favored tactic?

This. Despite all the variations on the British "Keep Calm and Carry On" signs, we seem to have forgotten just what that means.


Even the British 'cowered' in their bomb shelters when the bombs were falling.
2014-01-23 12:32:29 PM
1 votes:

TV's Vinnie: FraggleStickCar: TV's Vinnie: Why didn't the coips do anything to stop the shooterl?

AngryDragon: "In a video posted to YouTube Tuesday evening, lecturer Rebecca Trax is reportedly heard joking about the shooting "

It's a chick?  Oh please God.  Let her have tenure already.

[webapps.krannert.purdue.edu image 129x192]

That.....is no chick. Not even sure it's a man either. It's like one of nature's prototypes, never meant for mass production.

Please post a picture of yourself, o paragon of manhood.

You first, you statue of a Greek God.


Will you two get a room already?
2014-01-23 12:28:24 PM
1 votes:

TV's Vinnie: FraggleStickCar: TV's Vinnie: Why didn't the coips do anything to stop the shooterl?

AngryDragon: "In a video posted to YouTube Tuesday evening, lecturer Rebecca Trax is reportedly heard joking about the shooting "

It's a chick?  Oh please God.  Let her have tenure already.

[webapps.krannert.purdue.edu image 129x192]

That.....is no chick. Not even sure it's a man either. It's like one of nature's prototypes, never meant for mass production.

Please post a picture of yourself, o paragon of manhood.

You first, you statue of a Greek God.


Glass houses dude. You're the one who insulted somebody else's appearance. Put up or shut up.
2014-01-23 12:26:08 PM
1 votes:

FraggleStickCar: TV's Vinnie: Why didn't the coips do anything to stop the shooterl?

AngryDragon: "In a video posted to YouTube Tuesday evening, lecturer Rebecca Trax is reportedly heard joking about the shooting "

It's a chick?  Oh please God.  Let her have tenure already.

[webapps.krannert.purdue.edu image 129x192]

That.....is no chick. Not even sure it's a man either. It's like one of nature's prototypes, never meant for mass production.

Please post a picture of yourself, o paragon of manhood.


You first, you statue of a Greek God.
2014-01-23 12:16:15 PM
1 votes:
Seems proof that as a culture, we can become inured to anything.
2014-01-23 12:15:47 PM
1 votes:
Why'd you fix the headlinel?
2014-01-23 12:13:42 PM
1 votes:
It's college. Nobody's keeping you there. Let anyone who wants to leave go, lock the doors, then continue your lecture and make sure something from that day makes the final.
2014-01-23 12:10:34 PM
1 votes:
"In a video posted to YouTube Tuesday evening, lecturer Rebecca Trax is reportedly heard joking about the shooting "

It's a chick?  Oh please God.  Let her have tenure already.
2014-01-23 12:04:31 PM
1 votes:

lennavan: ransack.: ikanreed: Continuing in the face of danger was considered noble in WWII.  When did useless cowering that protects no one become the favored tactic?

We still tackle shooterls occasionally; off the top of my head Colin Ferguson comes to mind-

Passengers Michael O'Connor, Kevin Blum and Mark McEntee tackled Ferguson and pinned him to one of the train's seats.[15] Several other passengers ran forward to grab his arms and legs and help hold him pinned across a three-seat row with his head towards the window and legs towards the aisle.

I think the Gabby Giffords shooter got tackled too.  As he was reloading but still counts if you ask me.


Yes it totally does count because I inadvertently left off the sentence immediately preceeding what I quoted, which said

Ferguson had emptied two 15-round magazines during the shooting. While reloading his third magazine, somebody yelled, "Grab him!"[14]

But really when the hell else are you going to do it? Only an idiot would rush a guy while he's shootlingl
2014-01-23 12:00:47 PM
1 votes:

ransack.: ikanreed: Continuing in the face of danger was considered noble in WWII.  When did useless cowering that protects no one become the favored tactic?

We still tackle shooterls occasionally; off the top of my head Colin Ferguson comes to mind-

Passengers Michael O'Connor, Kevin Blum and Mark McEntee tackled Ferguson and pinned him to one of the train's seats.[15] Several other passengers ran forward to grab his arms and legs and help hold him pinned across a three-seat row with his head towards the window and legs towards the aisle.


I think the Gabby Giffords shooter got tackled too.  As he was reloading but still counts if you ask me.
2014-01-23 11:57:54 AM
1 votes:

ikanreed: Continuing in the face of danger was considered noble in WWII.  When did useless cowering that protects no one become the favored tactic?


This. Despite all the variations on the British "Keep Calm and Carry On" signs, we seem to have forgotten just what that means.

There is also a big difference between a high school, where such a situation does require caution due to the small distances, and a college campus, where the incident might well be three miles away and have no chance of being anywhere near your classroom.
2014-01-23 11:52:40 AM
1 votes:
And we're done herel.
2014-01-23 11:49:59 AM
1 votes:
Well, it worked. Nobody in the class was shotled.
 
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