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(Campus Reform)   If you were a professor at a major university during a shooting, what would you do? Lock the doors? Turn off the lights? The correct answer is: carry on as normal, ignore your students' concerns, and joke about having them tackle the shooter   (campusreform.org) divider line 139
    More: Fail, shocks, Purdue, Rebecca Trax, Inter-process communication, lecture hall, business management  
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6239 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jan 2014 at 11:47 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-23 12:44:42 PM  

d23: I work two buildings away in Purdue's Physics building.  It is attached to the EE building by tunnels (though another building).  There on Northwestern street it forms a kind of complex area and connected to a parking garage across the street.  So, basically I was 200 yards or so from where this all took place.

Even so, we pretty much went about our work here.  In retrospect, it was for a number of reasons.  One was the "well, it's not happening in MY building" attitude.  Another was that I'm in a place that can't hear the sirens we have here for such emergencies.

The Purdue police have been pretty positive about the response, but I have already heard grumblings from faculty here.  The faculty DID NOT know what was going on.  Most of them heard it from their students (and some faculty won't listen to students about anything).  It took 45 minutes to an hour to find out what was happening from our web page and we've got a significant number of oldsters on staff that are lucky to even use a computer at all.  So... there were problems.  I suspect everything plays a role (including the ego of the faculty member).


The first time I did two chicks at one time and LSD (not the same party) was in Cary Quad
 
2014-01-23 12:45:59 PM  

nullptr: DontMakeMeComeBackThere: To make matters worse, the text messaging system was reportedly inconsistent. Though students were quickly alerted after the first shots were fired, they were told to "resume normal operations" less than thirty minutes later.

Looks like someone is going out of their way to be offended.  They were told to resume normal operations because the guy was caught...is there a minimum amount of time required for everyone to panic before an all-clear can be given?  An hour? Two? Do we need to cancel the entire day?  Grow a pair.

Oh, and in my days at university we could mostly come and go as we pleased (especially in a 400+ theater).  If you're scared...leave.  Nobody is stopping you.

That is not how things work during a lockdown.


The word lockdown needs to be removed from our national vocabulary.

Seriously, the only place that word should ever be used is in a prison.
 
2014-01-23 12:46:16 PM  
I could see turning off the lights and locking the door, if there are hotties in teh class, and they hand out lube. And if there's no math involved.
 
2014-01-23 12:46:25 PM  

Scaevola: But I absolutely farking hate the high percentage of social misfits this line of work attracts.


What line of work were you thinking could possibly be better in that regard?  Tedious co-workers are part of the white collar experience too(and no doubt blue).
 
2014-01-23 12:46:52 PM  
I keep getting told that guns aren't dangerous, so why would he stop what he was doing just because someone on campus was shooting one?
 
2014-01-23 12:46:52 PM  

ikanreed: Scaevola: But I absolutely farking hate the high percentage of social misfits this line of work attracts.

What line of work were you thinking could possibly be better in that regard?  Tedious co-workers are part of the white collar experience too(and no doubt blue).


I dunno.  Pirate?
 
2014-01-23 12:47:44 PM  

BitwiseShift: I could see turning off the lights and locking the door, if there are hotties in teh class, and they hand out lube. And if there's no math involved.


Go on...
 
2014-01-23 12:49:38 PM  

DarkVader: nullptr: DontMakeMeComeBackThere: To make matters worse, the text messaging system was reportedly inconsistent. Though students were quickly alerted after the first shots were fired, they were told to "resume normal operations" less than thirty minutes later.

Looks like someone is going out of their way to be offended.  They were told to resume normal operations because the guy was caught...is there a minimum amount of time required for everyone to panic before an all-clear can be given?  An hour? Two? Do we need to cancel the entire day?  Grow a pair.

Oh, and in my days at university we could mostly come and go as we pleased (especially in a 400+ theater).  If you're scared...leave.  Nobody is stopping you.

That is not how things work during a lockdown.

The word lockdown needs to be removed from our national vocabulary.

Seriously, the only place that word should ever be used is in a prison.



That.
 
2014-01-23 12:51:17 PM  
Uhh...lock the damn door yourselves, turn the lights off yourselves...farking kids can't do anything without instruction.
 
2014-01-23 12:51:25 PM  

Fizpez: "Tackle the shooter" is the right idea but "wait till they're reloading" isn't.

Barricade in place, get ready to throw some shiat - if they still get in to the room throw and follow through zerg rush style.

Yep, some people are still going to get shot and probably die, fewer than if you sit there and wait for reloading to begin.


Absolutely.

Even the Department of Homeland Security recommends that when an active shooter is actually in your room, that you:

3. Take action against the active shooter 
As a last resort, and only when your life is in imminent danger, 
attempt to disrupt and/or incapacitate the active shooter by: 
• Acting as aggressively as possible against him/her 
• Throwing items and improvising weapons 
• Yelling 
• Committing to your actions 

"Imminent danger" pretty much means that the shooter is in the same room, and your ability to hide effectively very low.
 
2014-01-23 12:52:36 PM  

I know somebody who is getting a sweat shirt that reads

KEEP CALM

AND

CARRY ON

DRONING

for Christmas from his students.

 
2014-01-23 12:53:44 PM  
Has college changed since I went 20 years ago, couldn't the students have just walked out if they were so scared?  I can't think of a single teacher who would have cared if I got up and walked out of class, especially in a lecture hall.  Eh, maybe it's just because I went to a State school
 
2014-01-23 12:53:58 PM  

brantgoose: I know somebody who is getting a sweat shirt that readsKEEP CALMANDCARRY ONDRONINGfor Christmas from his students.



Look, if a speaker doesn't strike oil in the first ten minutes, they should stop boring.
 
2014-01-23 12:54:00 PM  

ransack.: Ferguson had emptied two 15-round magazines during the shooting. While reloading his third magazine, somebody yelled, "Grab him!"[14]

But really when the hell else are you going to do it? Only an idiot would rush a guy while he's shootlingl


That's why you shout for someone else to "Grab him!".
 
2014-01-23 12:54:13 PM  

ikanreed: Continuing in the face of danger was considered noble in WWII.  When did useless cowering that protects no one become the favored tactic?


cptjeff: LazarusLong42: ikanreed: Continuing in the face of danger was considered noble in WWII.  When did useless cowering that protects no one become the favored tactic?

This. Despite all the variations on the British "Keep Calm and Carry On" signs, we seem to have forgotten just what that means.

Prudence has always been considered a virtue. If you have a chance to not die needlessly, you don't choose to die needlessly. Students at a college are not soldiers in a war. It pays to be smart. The British sent their kids to the countryside during the Blitz and went to bomb shelters during the raids, remember. When you can prudently reduce the risk to yourself, you do. In a situation like this, not reducing the risk to yourself isn't noble, it's just stupid.


Yes if only there was some sort of saying or idiom to encapsulate your thoughts about discrection and valor.
 
2014-01-23 12:55:35 PM  
if anyone is curious (or any educators out there would like to have their student more prepared) here is an actual training video for active shooters:

›http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2tIeRUbRHw
 
2014-01-23 12:56:07 PM  

cptjeff: TV's Vinnie: FraggleStickCar: TV's Vinnie: Why didn't the coips do anything to stop the shooterl?

AngryDragon: "In a video posted to YouTube Tuesday evening, lecturer Rebecca Trax is reportedly heard joking about the shooting "

It's a chick?  Oh please God.  Let her have tenure already.

[webapps.krannert.purdue.edu image 129x192]

That.....is no chick. Not even sure it's a man either. It's like one of nature's prototypes, never meant for mass production.

Please post a picture of yourself, o paragon of manhood.

You first, you statue of a Greek God.

Glass houses dude. You're the one who insulted somebody else's appearance. Put up or shut up.


DEFENDERS OF THE FUGLY, UNITE!!!
 
2014-01-23 12:56:50 PM  

joness0154: Shelter in place, aka cower in fear, is not the way to reduce risk to yourself.

If there's an active shooter in a place that i'm visiting, there's no way in hell i'm staying in one spot like a fish in a bucket.  I'm getting out of that area ASAP if the opportunity presents itself.


Actually, that's a good way to make yourself a target, either by an active shooter, or by the police possibly mistaking you for one.

Evacuation is fine if you can do it quickly and safely, for instance, you're at the west end of the building and you hear shooting from the east end, and you're right near an exit (assuming it hasn't been chained and locked like the Viriginia Tech shooter did).  Most of the time, though, you'll want to shelter in place, and prepare to resist if the shooter does manage to enter the room you are in.
 
2014-01-23 12:56:58 PM  
 
2014-01-23 12:57:10 PM  

dusty15893: Yes if only there was some sort of saying or idiom to encapsulate your thoughts about discrection and valor.


Yeah, but the hiding doesn't do any good.  It didn't keep bombs from falling in London, and it doesn't keep shooters from shooting.
 
2014-01-23 12:57:44 PM  
The lecturers should be reprimanded for flippant and insensitive comments.  Then everybody should move on with their lives.

TFA should take out the mentions of how concealed carry had been voted down.  It has nothing to do with anything in the story.
 
2014-01-23 12:58:18 PM  

WelldeadLink: ransack.: Ferguson had emptied two 15-round magazines during the shooting. While reloading his third magazine, somebody yelled, "Grab him!"[14]

But really when the hell else are you going to do it? Only an idiot would rush a guy while he's shootlingl

That's why you shout for someone else to "Grab him!".


I know, right? After I posted that I thought the same thing and had a vision of a guy hunkered down behind a foam seat four feet away hearing the gun clicking and yelling that and sprinting away without ever looking back
 
2014-01-23 12:59:22 PM  
Depends if they have tenure, if they do then nothing can phase them since they've been through the second most grueling employment process. The first is naturally becoming a Physician.

If they don't have tenure then they have nothing to live for so same result, different reasons.

Now, if this shooting happened during office hours that's another matter completely. In that case they'd have to turn the lights on and unlock the door to make the shooter believe that there's nobody in the office.
 
2014-01-23 01:02:32 PM  
BTW while we are talking about tackling bad guys, shouts to the ghosts of the flight 93 dudes.
 
2014-01-23 01:03:13 PM  

Alebak: On one hand if he was trying to keep his students calm, I can  sort of see what he was trying to do, and even if they train professors in what to do its possible that this was his "freeze in the headlights" reaction.

But still, this comes across as SUPER RETARDED. If this wasnt actually some kind of nervous reaction than what the fark was he thinking?


here is where education is utterly confused.

I linked the video up thread on what classrooms (teachers AND students) can do in an active shooter situation.  I asked if we should show this in classes so students can know what actions to take BEFORE an incident.  Explaining what to do after an incident starts is too late.

Our chief of security wanted to think about it.  Some of the arguments AGAINST showing the training video is it would tip off wanna-be shooters as to what tactics might be used to stop them.

Seriously.  Education tends to over-think a lot of things.

/we are still discouraged from showing the video to our students
 
2014-01-23 01:03:37 PM  

ransack.: BTW while we are talking about tackling bad guys, shouts to the ghosts of the flight 93 dudes.


Not the terrorists
 
2014-01-23 01:04:46 PM  

ikanreed: dusty15893: Yes if only there was some sort of saying or idiom to encapsulate your thoughts about discrection and valor.

Yeah, but the hiding doesn't do any good.  It didn't keep bombs from falling in London, and it doesn't keep shooters from shooting.


I'm not saying what happened at Purdue was right or wrong but you're delusional if you think you'd have the slightest clue how you'd actually react when put into a situation where "fight or flight" becomes your reality.

Bombs falling during war time and school shootings are apples and oranges. In WWII London, bombs falling was an inevitability and part of life. Hence the stiff upper-lip and the carry on mentality.  School shootings are the outlier and not something that happens on a weekly or daily basis.
 
2014-01-23 01:04:59 PM  

dittybopper: joness0154: Shelter in place, aka cower in fear, is not the way to reduce risk to yourself.

If there's an active shooter in a place that i'm visiting, there's no way in hell i'm staying in one spot like a fish in a bucket.  I'm getting out of that area ASAP if the opportunity presents itself.

Actually, that's a good way to make yourself a target, either by an active shooter, or by the police possibly mistaking you for one.

Evacuation is fine if you can do it quickly and safely, for instance, you're at the west end of the building and you hear shooting from the east end, and you're right near an exit (assuming it hasn't been chained and locked like the Viriginia Tech shooter did).  Most of the time, though, you'll want to shelter in place, and prepare to resist if the shooter does manage to enter the room you are in.


If the shooter is in my immediate vicinity, I realize that I might just have to stay in place if there's no way out besides heading toward the shooter.  However, if there is a way out (door to outside, window, etc.) you can bet your ass I'm not waiting around.

In all likelihood I'd be out of there before a police response anyway, but I'd rather take chances with them than confronting a shooter.
 
2014-01-23 01:05:10 PM  

Hyjamon: Alebak: On one hand if he was trying to keep his students calm, I can  sort of see what he was trying to do, and even if they train professors in what to do its possible that this was his "freeze in the headlights" reaction.

But still, this comes across as SUPER RETARDED. If this wasnt actually some kind of nervous reaction than what the fark was he thinking?

here is where education is utterly confused.

I linked the video up thread on what classrooms (teachers AND students) can do in an active shooter situation.  I asked if we should show this in classes so students can know what actions to take BEFORE an incident.  Explaining what to do after an incident starts is too late.

Our chief of security wanted to think about it.  Some of the arguments AGAINST showing the training video is it would tip off wanna-be shooters as to what tactics might be used to stop them.

Seriously.  Education tends to over-think a lot of things.

/we are still discouraged from showing the video to our students


Does that not make sense to you? Do you honestly think telling people exactly how you plan to react if they attack you is a smart idea?
 
2014-01-23 01:07:55 PM  

eggrolls: Seems proof that as a culture, we can become inured to anything.


media2.giphy.com
 
2014-01-23 01:08:45 PM  

dusty15893: ikanreed: dusty15893: Yes if only there was some sort of saying or idiom to encapsulate your thoughts about discrection and valor.

Yeah, but the hiding doesn't do any good.  It didn't keep bombs from falling in London, and it doesn't keep shooters from shooting.

I'm not saying what happened at Purdue was right or wrong but you're delusional if you think you'd have the slightest clue how you'd actually react when put into a situation where "fight or flight" becomes your reality.

Bombs falling during war time and school shootings are apples and oranges. In WWII London, bombs falling was an inevitability and part of life. Hence the stiff upper-lip and the carry on mentality.  School shootings are the outlier and not something that happens on a weekly or daily basis.


Sure, okay.  Completely reasonable.  My only charge is that I see not the point.
 
2014-01-23 01:10:30 PM  

poot_rootbeer: The lecturers should be reprimanded for flippant and insensitive comments.  Then everybody should move on with their lives.

TFA should take out the mentions of how concealed carry had been voted down.  It has nothing to do with anything in the story.


are the lecturers in well supported classrooms?  Are they able to close AND lock the door?  are there even any doors?  can they control the lighting?

What I find disturbing is we are admitting as a society that places of education are not safe and will become increasingly popular targets for shootings, yet in the face of all this information, we do nothing to increase safety for educators and students.

if the door swings into a classroom, a $1 door stop can be a highly effective deterrent...yet we cannot order them.  Where I teach, there is no way to lock the door in most of the classrooms and there is no budget to install locks.
 
2014-01-23 01:11:13 PM  

Hyjamon: if anyone is curious (or any educators out there would like to have their student more prepared) here is an actual training video for active shooters:

›http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2tIeRUbRHw


Because we need more active shooters with proper training.
 
2014-01-23 01:14:40 PM  

ransack.: Hyjamon: Alebak: On one hand if he was trying to keep his students calm, I can  sort of see what he was trying to do, and even if they train professors in what to do its possible that this was his "freeze in the headlights" reaction.

But still, this comes across as SUPER RETARDED. If this wasnt actually some kind of nervous reaction than what the fark was he thinking?

here is where education is utterly confused.

I linked the video up thread on what classrooms (teachers AND students) can do in an active shooter situation.  I asked if we should show this in classes so students can know what actions to take BEFORE an incident.  Explaining what to do after an incident starts is too late.

Our chief of security wanted to think about it.  Some of the arguments AGAINST showing the training video is it would tip off wanna-be shooters as to what tactics might be used to stop them.

Seriously.  Education tends to over-think a lot of things.

/we are still discouraged from showing the video to our students

Does that not make sense to you? Do you honestly think telling people exactly how you plan to react if they attack you is a smart idea?


ever watch sports?  both teams know what the other team is planning yet touchdowns are still made, sacks occur.  I will assume you haven't watched the video since some of the tactics are still tough to counter even if you know what to expect.

and the idea in the training is to reduce the body count, it is tough to 100% prevent any shots from being fired, but we can try to reduce the number fired.

I would rather have 30 people trained on what to do if there is a shooter who went thru the same training vs. 30 people with no training against a shooter who still has a gun and bullets and is probably not mentally healthy..
 
2014-01-23 01:16:16 PM  

ZeroCorpse: Reading that site just makes me realize how much universities suck these days.

Not just the article in question, but the others all over the page.

People posting memes and junk... What class is it, REDDIT101?
 
2014-01-23 01:16:17 PM  

WelldeadLink: Hyjamon: if anyone is curious (or any educators out there would like to have their student more prepared) here is an actual training video for active shooters:

›http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2tIeRUbRHw

Because we need more active shooters with proper training.


lol. Yea, did a poor job of wordsmithing there.

/commas save lives
 
2014-01-23 01:17:02 PM  

Hyjamon: if the door swings into a classroom, a $1 door stop can be a highly effective deterrent...yet we cannot order them. Where I teach, there is no way to lock the door in most of the classrooms and there is no budget to install locks.


You've been submitting budget requests to allow you to lock your students in a room?

/creeepyyy
 
2014-01-23 01:26:38 PM  
"Don't disturb my circles!"
                   --Archimedes
 
2014-01-23 01:29:19 PM  

Hyjamon: ransack.: Hyjamon: Alebak: On one hand if he was trying to keep his students calm, I can  sort of see what he was trying to do, and even if they train professors in what to do its possible that this was his "freeze in the headlights" reaction.

But still, this comes across as SUPER RETARDED. If this wasnt actually some kind of nervous reaction than what the fark was he thinking?

here is where education is utterly confused.

I linked the video up thread on what classrooms (teachers AND students) can do in an active shooter situation.  I asked if we should show this in classes so students can know what actions to take BEFORE an incident.  Explaining what to do after an incident starts is too late.

Our chief of security wanted to think about it.  Some of the arguments AGAINST showing the training video is it would tip off wanna-be shooters as to what tactics might be used to stop them.

Seriously.  Education tends to over-think a lot of things.

/we are still discouraged from showing the video to our students

Does that not make sense to you? Do you honestly think telling people exactly how you plan to react if they attack you is a smart idea?

ever watch sports?  both teams know what the other team is planning yet touchdowns are still made, sacks occur.  I will assume you haven't watched the video since some of the tactics are still tough to counter even if you know what to expect.

and the idea in the training is to reduce the body count, it is tough to 100% prevent any shots from being fired, but we can try to reduce the number fired.

I would rather have 30 people trained on what to do if there is a shooter who went thru the same training vs. 30 people with no training against a shooter who still has a gun and bullets and is probably not mentally healthy..


"both teams know what the other team is planning"?

do you have any idea of the secrecy surrounding an NFL playbook?

can you imagine the disadvantage you would have if your opponent had your playbook, but his was a secret to you? this is the position you are putting yourself in.

publishing plans just makes it easier for attackers to maximize their casualties. they know what to do to make you go places, they can prepare themselves with specialized weaponry, you are giving them instructions to herd yourselves to slaughter.
 
2014-01-23 01:30:56 PM  

mdeesnuts: Hyjamon: if the door swings into a classroom, a $1 door stop can be a highly effective deterrent...yet we cannot order them. Where I teach, there is no way to lock the door in most of the classrooms and there is no budget to install locks.

You've been submitting budget requests to allow you to lock your students in a room?

/creeepyyy


nice, and I am sure you are being a bit sarcastic here, but just for clarity, the idea is to lock the shooter OUT of the classroom.

It also might be a nice admissions screening method to see how many students can get out of a classroom that is locked from the inside.
 
2014-01-23 01:31:18 PM  

ransack.: Hyjamon: ransack.: Hyjamon: Alebak: On one hand if he was trying to keep his students calm, I can  sort of see what he was trying to do, and even if they train professors in what to do its possible that this was his "freeze in the headlights" reaction.

But still, this comes across as SUPER RETARDED. If this wasnt actually some kind of nervous reaction than what the fark was he thinking?

here is where education is utterly confused.

I linked the video up thread on what classrooms (teachers AND students) can do in an active shooter situation.  I asked if we should show this in classes so students can know what actions to take BEFORE an incident.  Explaining what to do after an incident starts is too late.

Our chief of security wanted to think about it.  Some of the arguments AGAINST showing the training video is it would tip off wanna-be shooters as to what tactics might be used to stop them.

Seriously.  Education tends to over-think a lot of things.

/we are still discouraged from showing the video to our students

Does that not make sense to you? Do you honestly think telling people exactly how you plan to react if they attack you is a smart idea?

ever watch sports?  both teams know what the other team is planning yet touchdowns are still made, sacks occur.  I will assume you haven't watched the video since some of the tactics are still tough to counter even if you know what to expect.

and the idea in the training is to reduce the body count, it is tough to 100% prevent any shots from being fired, but we can try to reduce the number fired.

I would rather have 30 people trained on what to do if there is a shooter who went thru the same training vs. 30 people with no training against a shooter who still has a gun and bullets and is probably not mentally healthy..

"both teams know what the other team is planning"?

do you have any idea of the secrecy surrounding an NFL playbook?

can you imagine the disadvantage you would have if your opponent had your playbook ...



This is why open source software is always inferior and less secure to closed source, proprietary software.
 
2014-01-23 01:33:45 PM  

BafflerMeal: ransack.: Hyjamon: ransack.: Hyjamon: Alebak: On one hand if he was trying to keep his students calm, I can  sort of see what he was trying to do, and even if they train professors in what to do its possible that this was his "freeze in the headlights" reaction.

But still, this comes across as SUPER RETARDED. If this wasnt actually some kind of nervous reaction than what the fark was he thinking?

here is where education is utterly confused.

I linked the video up thread on what classrooms (teachers AND students) can do in an active shooter situation.  I asked if we should show this in classes so students can know what actions to take BEFORE an incident.  Explaining what to do after an incident starts is too late.

Our chief of security wanted to think about it.  Some of the arguments AGAINST showing the training video is it would tip off wanna-be shooters as to what tactics might be used to stop them.

Seriously.  Education tends to over-think a lot of things.

/we are still discouraged from showing the video to our students

Does that not make sense to you? Do you honestly think telling people exactly how you plan to react if they attack you is a smart idea?

ever watch sports?  both teams know what the other team is planning yet touchdowns are still made, sacks occur.  I will assume you haven't watched the video since some of the tactics are still tough to counter even if you know what to expect.

and the idea in the training is to reduce the body count, it is tough to 100% prevent any shots from being fired, but we can try to reduce the number fired.

I would rather have 30 people trained on what to do if there is a shooter who went thru the same training vs. 30 people with no training against a shooter who still has a gun and bullets and is probably not mentally healthy..

"both teams know what the other team is planning"?

do you have any idea of the secrecy surrounding an NFL playbook?

can you imagine the disadvantage you would have if your opponent had your playbook ...


This is why open source software is always inferior and less secure to closed source, proprietary software.


No, this is why open source software with vulnerabilities is exploited and attacked massively immediately after it is released.
 
2014-01-23 01:35:37 PM  

ransack.: BafflerMeal: ransack.: Hyjamon: ransack.: Hyjamon: Alebak: On one hand if he was trying to keep his students calm, I can  sort of see what he was trying to do, and even if they train professors in what to do its possible that this was his "freeze in the headlights" reaction.

But still, this comes across as SUPER RETARDED. If this wasnt actually some kind of nervous reaction than what the fark was he thinking?

here is where education is utterly confused.

I linked the video up thread on what classrooms (teachers AND students) can do in an active shooter situation.  I asked if we should show this in classes so students can know what actions to take BEFORE an incident.  Explaining what to do after an incident starts is too late.

Our chief of security wanted to think about it.  Some of the arguments AGAINST showing the training video is it would tip off wanna-be shooters as to what tactics might be used to stop them.

Seriously.  Education tends to over-think a lot of things.

/we are still discouraged from showing the video to our students

Does that not make sense to you? Do you honestly think telling people exactly how you plan to react if they attack you is a smart idea?

ever watch sports?  both teams know what the other team is planning yet touchdowns are still made, sacks occur.  I will assume you haven't watched the video since some of the tactics are still tough to counter even if you know what to expect.

and the idea in the training is to reduce the body count, it is tough to 100% prevent any shots from being fired, but we can try to reduce the number fired.

I would rather have 30 people trained on what to do if there is a shooter who went thru the same training vs. 30 people with no training against a shooter who still has a gun and bullets and is probably not mentally healthy..

"both teams know what the other team is planning"?

do you have any idea of the secrecy surrounding an NFL playbook?

can you imagine the disadvantage you would have if your opponent had your playbook ...


This is why open source software is always inferior and less secure to closed source, proprietary software.

No, this is why open source software with vulnerabilities is exploited and attacked massively immediately after it is released.


and why there are still 0day 5p|01+Z to be found in WinXP
 
2014-01-23 01:41:55 PM  
We just had an all day training on this a week ago (with more to come) - ALiCE if you want to look it  up.


Lockdown is still a part of the process but the E is for evacuate (if you can)

The main change to what you might have learned in years past has to do with how both law enforecement and the potential victims neesd to respond.

Police used to wait for SWAT (ie hostage takers) - later they were taught to wait for 4 officers before entering.  Now they are being taught that any officer on scene needs to get in there ASAP since in an active shooting situation someone is shot every 6 seconds (on average) - we do not have hostage takers anymore, we have murderes intent on killing as many people as possible.

A lockdown is no longer "lock the door and kiss your ass goodbye if they come in".  Lockdown can immediately be followed by Evacuate if the shooter is on the other side of a building and you can safely GTFO.  If you can't, you barricade - pile as much shiat in front of the doors as possible.

If they STILL come in then it's active confrontation (throw things and go for the eye's BOO!) with any and all means available - someone is going to have to charge in or you're all going to probably die anyway - so you all might as well zerg rush the MF'r and hope for the best.
 
2014-01-23 01:43:50 PM  

ransack.: "both teams know what the other team is planning"?

do you have any idea of the secrecy surrounding an NFL playbook?

can you imagine the disadvantage you would have if your opponent had your playbook, but his was a secret to you? this is the position you are putting yourself in.

publishing plans just makes it easier for attackers to maximize their casualties. they know what to do to make you go places, they can prepare themselves with specialized weaponry, you are giving them instructions to herd yourselves to slaughter.


game film is more or less what I was referring to.  We may just have to agree to disagree here.  I would rather have a classroom where students understand to zerg rush, throw things, barricade, tackle from both sides of a doorway, etc. than to just have them standing around in a panic.

specialized weaponry?  shooters are already prepped for maximum casualties, hence they target schools mostly.  IF they have a weapon, they are already bringing it.  Plus if the defense is to get zerg rushed or tackled at the door, what specialized weaponry would you use that you don't already have?  a high-capacity, semi/full automatic weapon.

I am serious here, if you knew walking into a classroom that there will be 3 people on both sides of the doorway waiting to tackle you, what would you do differently?  You only have one gun and can only point it at one direction, yet you are being tackled from two sides.

Also, if we are talking about a semi-intelligent, motivated shooter who is planning this out over a longtime (not a spur of the moment thing), you would think they would already prepared and studied defensive tactics that could be employed against them.
 
2014-01-23 01:46:18 PM  
ransack.: No, this is why open source  any software with vulnerabilities is exploited and attacked massively immediately after it is released.

isn't that the truer statement?
 
2014-01-23 01:48:11 PM  
The important thing here is that we missed an opportunity to take out a Management professor/lecturer.  Traditional management degrees are as worthless as marketing degrees in a B-school.  Although marketers do make colorful Powerpoints...that puts them at the bottom.
 
2014-01-23 01:49:38 PM  

Hyjamon: It also might be a nice admissions screening method to see how many students can get out of a classroom that is locked from the inside.


The Engineering school's studenty body would be decimated.

static.tvtropes.org
 
2014-01-23 01:50:23 PM  

Fizpez: so you all might as well zerg rush the MF'r and hope for the best.


curious, did your training include students or the idea that students will be trained as well?

cause you touch on the point I am trying to make, a zerg rush only works if there is an actual zerg.  If only one person bums rushes the shooter (or only one at a time rush him in a trickle), chances are high that one person is going to die and then all the other wallflowers immediately after.  In order to perform a zerg rush, you need everyone ready to go, not just the instructor (and the few random vets/police who happen to be taking the class as a civilian)
 
2014-01-23 01:56:05 PM  

Hyjamon: ransack.: No, this is why open source  any software with vulnerabilities is exploited and attacked massively immediately after it is released.

isn't that the truer statement?


Yes, but the difference with OSS is that every vulnerability is immediately apparent to any attacker of reasonable intelligence, whereas with closed software (metaphorically, the active-shooter plan known only to staff), trial-and-error is used and the system is not entirely predictable by the attacker.

In any case, wouldn't the professors, anybody but campus police, they don't even have the authority to tell the students what to do, do they? They are adults, they can run and hide or scream or tackle as they please, no?
 
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